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(New York Daily News)   Note to family of two brothers who suffered heart attacks ten days apart while jogging: Stay away from New York City parks   (nydailynews.com) divider line 23
    More: Strange, New York City, Madison Ave, metered-dose inhaler, diamond, heart attacks, New York Marathon, Central Park  
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1249 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2014 at 8:30 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



23 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-23 08:46:07 AM
Rule #1. Never run unless you have to.

/advice from an experienced interventional cardiologist.
 
2014-01-23 08:52:43 AM
Serious, possibly retarded, question for the medical professionals: given whatever condition (maybe genetically driven) their hearts and arteries were in at that point in their lives, would they have been better off if they DIDN'T jog? Or were their days numbered anyway, and without jogging they would have died even earlier?

/no, I'm not looking for an excuse not to exercise
//OK, maybe just an excuse not to exercise very hard
 
2014-01-23 08:53:04 AM

itsaidwhat: Rule #1. Never run unless you have to.

/advice from an experienced interventional cardiologist.


my rule is "never run", but that makes sense because of bears, mountain lions, tsunamis, and black people walking towards you omfg on the same side of the street even.

/if you have to run, you done farked ip somewhere in life.
 
2014-01-23 08:59:44 AM

itsaidwhat: Rule #1. Never run unless you have to.

/advice from an experienced interventional cardiologist.


Genuine question, is jogging and running considered the same thing?

I jog every Monday, Wednesday and Friday after work but never "run" or push myself hard.

I've always read and has been my undedstanding that exercise, specifically cardio, is suppose to be great for your health and stregthen your heart. Recently I've been reading and seeing articles stating the opposite, that jogging and cardio can be harmful.

Any links or explanation to help clear up the discrepency I'm finding in information?

Thanks in advance, againg 33 year old who recently started having random cbest pains. I've seen my primary care physician, a cardiologist, had a stress test and have been told I'm fine that it's just muscle pain so that's why I ask.
 
2014-01-23 09:12:03 AM

Masta Kronix: itsaidwhat: Rule #1. Never run unless you have to.

/advice from an experienced interventional cardiologist.

Genuine question, is jogging and running considered the same thing?

I jog every Monday, Wednesday and Friday after work but never "run" or push myself hard.

I've always read and has been my undedstanding that exercise, specifically cardio, is suppose to be great for your health and stregthen your heart. Recently I've been reading and seeing articles stating the opposite, that jogging and cardio can be harmful.

Any links or explanation to help clear up the discrepency I'm finding in information?

Thanks in advance, againg 33 year old who recently started having random cbest pains. I've seen my primary care physician, a cardiologist, had a stress test and have been told I'm fine that it's just muscle pain so that's why I ask.



Be very careful when it comes to chest pain.  I had severe heart attack last year (I was 35 at the time, 36 now) and damn near didn't make it.  Thankfully my outlook is good and while I have vastly improved my diet I have not yet joined a gym even though  I know I should.
 
2014-01-23 09:12:54 AM

Yankees Team Gynecologist: Serious, possibly retarded, question for the medical professionals: given whatever condition (maybe genetically driven) their hearts and arteries were in at that point in their lives, would they have been better off if they DIDN'T jog? Or were their days numbered anyway, and without jogging they would have died even earlier?

/no, I'm not looking for an excuse not to exercise
//OK, maybe just an excuse not to exercise very hard


Not a medical professional, but a runner with knowledge.

If the condition was hypertrophic cardiomyophy (HCM), they would have been better off not exercising (though light stuff like yoga would have been fine).   In HCM, the walls of your heart are not built correctly and it will lead to an enlarged heart.  During strenuous exercise, the electrical impulses can get jacked up causing a cardiac arrest.  This is a genetic condition.

However, given that these two guys were 60+ and had, apparently, led very active lifes, it is not likely that it was HCM.  HCM will generally lead to an issue earlier in an active life.

In vast majority of cases like this, it is more likely that the exercise prolonged the life.
 
2014-01-23 09:17:53 AM

Masta Kronix: I've always read and has been my undedstanding that exercise, specifically cardio, is suppose to be great for your health and stregthen your heart. Recently I've been reading and seeing articles stating the opposite, that jogging and cardio can be harmful.


I am not sure what articles you have been reading, but if at the end they recommend that you switch solely to HITT or cross-fit, it is likely some bro-science that is not supported by real science.
 
2014-01-23 10:01:33 AM

GuyFawkes: Masta Kronix: itsaidwhat: Rule #1. Never run unless you have to.

/advice from an experienced interventional cardiologist.

Genuine question, is jogging and running considered the same thing?

I jog every Monday, Wednesday and Friday after work but never "run" or push myself hard.

I've always read and has been my undedstanding that exercise, specifically cardio, is suppose to be great for your health and stregthen your heart. Recently I've been reading and seeing articles stating the opposite, that jogging and cardio can be harmful.

Any links or explanation to help clear up the discrepency I'm finding in information?

Thanks in advance, againg 33 year old who recently started having random cbest pains. I've seen my primary care physician, a cardiologist, had a stress test and have been told I'm fine that it's just muscle pain so that's why I ask.


Be very careful when it comes to chest pain.  I had severe heart attack last year (I was 35 at the time, 36 now) and damn near didn't make it.  Thankfully my outlook is good and while I have vastly improved my diet I have not yet joined a gym even though  I know I should.


Believe me, it's causing me no small amount of stress and worry and I'm trying to do everything in my power to make sure I'm alright.

I've been to see my primary care physician, a cardiologist and had a stress test administered and both doctors have told me I'm fine. I'd like for them to administer more tests (Angiogram, Nuclear Stress Test, etc.) but they have the attitude that I'm worrying for no reason and had to fight to get them to at least administer the Stress Test.

I have slightly higher than normal cholesterol levels and had high blood pressure but managed to lower that by changing my diet and exercising routine.

I don't get any pain during or after jogging, it's always at random intervals, usually during a resting state, and only lasts anywhere from a minute or less.

I've drastically altered my diet and lifestyle since the pains started, the thought of dying in my 30's or even 40's of a heart attack or some other preventable illness is frightening and seems downright like a waste of my life.

I lived a pretty wild and carefree life from 22 - 27 like an idiot but didn't know better or the possible repercussions. Excessive levels of drinking, smoking and partying on a weekly basis, and I'm desperately hoping I didn't do any permanent damage or at least can undo whatever damage I may have done to my body, specifically Heart Disease or Lung related. Completely quit smoking and only drink occasoinally now.

That's why I was asking the question I was concerning jogging/running to the "experienced interventional cardiologist". Trying my best to learn and understand everything I can, where I can, concerning living a healthy lifestyle and bettering my odds of not dying of any sort of preventable illness.
 
2014-01-23 10:02:24 AM

Masta Kronix: itsaidwhat: Rule #1. Never run unless you have to.

/advice from an experienced interventional cardiologist.

Genuine question, is jogging and running considered the same thing?

I jog every Monday, Wednesday and Friday after work but never "run" or push myself hard.

I've always read and has been my undedstanding that exercise, specifically cardio, is suppose to be great for your health and stregthen your heart. Recently I've been reading and seeing articles stating the opposite, that jogging and cardio can be harmful.

Any links or explanation to help clear up the discrepency I'm finding in information?

Thanks in advance, againg 33 year old who recently started having random cbest pains. I've seen my primary care physician, a cardiologist, had a stress test and have been told I'm fine that it's just muscle pain so that's why I ask.


You have a finite number of heart beats in this life. You can spread them out and make them more efficient by keeping off extra weight, walking regularly, NOT SMOKING but routinely banging out the miles at pace for no good reason is just using them up. But hey, if that makes you feel better, then maybe quality of days is more important than quantity of days.

Run to catch a meal or a date, to avoid being a meal or being late, but slow the pace to last the race.
 
2014-01-23 10:11:18 AM

bacongood: Masta Kronix: I've always read and has been my undedstanding that exercise, specifically cardio, is suppose to be great for your health and stregthen your heart. Recently I've been reading and seeing articles stating the opposite, that jogging and cardio can be harmful.

I am not sure what articles you have been reading, but if at the end they recommend that you switch solely to HITT or cross-fit, it is likely some bro-science that is not supported by real science.


:lol: No, nothing I'm reading is along those lines.

It's mainly articles like this where, otherwise healthy individuals, die due to heart failure while jogging/running and/or exercising.

I know Heart Disease is a complicated disease and there are a myriad of factors (Genetics, Past Lifestyle Habits, artery condition, etc.) that are in play so that's why I was wondering if the "experienced interventional cardiologist" could weigh in or provide me with any reliable information concerning jogging/running.

My understanding is that relatively mild cardio daily is safe and extremely healthy for you, anything less than an hour a day, at a moderate pace. Anything longer and more rigorous (Marathon, Endurance training, etc.) and you run the risk of serious injury and/or damaging your heart permanently or in the long-term?
 
2014-01-23 10:16:52 AM

itsaidwhat: Masta Kronix: itsaidwhat: Rule #1. Never run unless you have to.

/advice from an experienced interventional cardiologist.

Genuine question, is jogging and running considered the same thing?

I jog every Monday, Wednesday and Friday after work but never "run" or push myself hard.

I've always read and has been my undedstanding that exercise, specifically cardio, is suppose to be great for your health and stregthen your heart. Recently I've been reading and seeing articles stating the opposite, that jogging and cardio can be harmful.

Any links or explanation to help clear up the discrepency I'm finding in information?

Thanks in advance, againg 33 year old who recently started having random cbest pains. I've seen my primary care physician, a cardiologist, had a stress test and have been told I'm fine that it's just muscle pain so that's why I ask.

You have a finite number of heart beats in this life. You can spread them out and make them more efficient by keeping off extra weight, walking regularly, NOT SMOKING but routinely banging out the miles at pace for no good reason is just using them up. But hey, if that makes you feel better, then maybe quality of days is more important than quantity of days.

Run to catch a meal or a date, to avoid being a meal or being late, but slow the pace to last the race.


I'm not understanding the answer and not trying to be difficult.

Let me be more specific.

In your opinion, would jogging 3 miles every Monday, Wednesday and Friday afternoon at a mild pace, roughly a 9/10 minute mile, be considered a safe amount of cardio or would that be considered over doing it? Given I have no other risk factors such as an enlarged heart, clogged arteries, etc.

I understand your heart has a certain number of beats but it's also my understanding that cardio exercise has been proven to extend the life of your heart and cause it to beat more efficiently and with less stress.

I'm trying to determine what is considered a healthy cardio regime since it seems to vary widely from anecdotal stories and reports I've come across.
 
2014-01-23 10:38:58 AM

Masta Kronix: It's mainly articles like this where, otherwise healthy individuals, die due to heart failure while jogging/running and/or exercising.

I know Heart Disease is a complicated disease and there are a myriad of factors (Genetics, Past Lifestyle Habits, artery condition, etc.) that are in play so that's why I was wondering if the "experienced interventional cardiologist" could weigh in or provide me with any reliable information concerning jogging/running.

My understanding is that relatively mild cardio daily is safe and extremely healthy for you, anything less than an hour a day, at a moderate pace. Anything longer and more rigorous (Marathon, Endurance training, etc.) and you run the risk of serious injury and/or damaging your heart permanently or in the long-term?


This article isn't a study, it is a random event.

While a marathon (and I have done numerous of them) is not a "healthy" thing to do, marathon training is extremely healthy.  The recommended 30 minutes of moderate exercise is a baseline - it is the bare minimum a healthy person should be doing.  Do more, you'll be more healthy and have less health risks.  The slight risks of an exercise induced cardiac incident is dwarfed by the overall benefits.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/107/1/e2.full

I have never seen a study showing a connection between heart damage and exercise outside of underlying issues like HCM.

As for injuries... yeah, they happen.  I would get less stress fractures if I didn't run, but I would also weigh 50 lbs more and that would lead to more serious chronic issues.

That being said, the best exercise plan is one that you will stick to.

Masta Kronix: I understand your heart has a certain number of beats but it's also my understanding that cardio exercise has been proven to extend the life of your heart and cause it to beat more efficiently and with less stress.


This is simply not true.
 
2014-01-23 10:41:18 AM

bacongood: Not a medical professional, but a runner with knowledge.

If the condition was hypertrophic cardiomyophy (HCM), they would have been better off not exercising (though light stuff like yoga would have been fine). In HCM, the walls of your heart are not built correctly and it will lead to an enlarged heart. During strenuous exercise, the electrical impulses can get jacked up causing a cardiac arrest. This is a genetic condition.

However, given that these two guys were 60+ and had, apparently, led very active lifes, it is not likely that it was HCM. HCM will generally lead to an issue earlier in an active life.

In vast majority of cases like this, it is more likely that the exercise prolonged the life.


Thanks, that makes sense.
 
2014-01-23 10:49:17 AM

Masta Kronix: Believe me, it's causing me no small amount of stress and worry and I'm trying to do everything in my power to make sure I'm alright.


I'm sure you've discussed this with your doctors so this comment is probably useless, but I was told the most common cause of chest pain at a young age is heartburn and other gastro/reflux issues, and/or anxiety. That seemed to be my issue, although my symptoms were fairly mild (not acute, just noticeable enough to make me check it out).

I too feel like the advice out there is often contradictory and sometimes counterintuitive.  I figure though that eating well and doing moderate exercise is probably tried and true.  (I do sometimes wonder however, why is stress bad but exercise good?  Doesn't exercise raise blood pressure?)
 
2014-01-23 10:51:06 AM

Masta Kronix: I don't get any pain during or after jogging, it's always at random intervals, usually during a resting state, and only lasts anywhere from a minute or less.


do you do any weight lifting or chest exercises like push ups. That happened to me. I would get sharp pains everyone once in a while in the chest. Hurt my shoulder and had to stop working out for a few months. The pain stopped.
 
2014-01-23 10:56:49 AM

Yankees Team Gynecologist: bacongood: Not a medical professional, but a runner with knowledge.

If the condition was hypertrophic cardiomyophy (HCM), they would have been better off not exercising (though light stuff like yoga would have been fine). In HCM, the walls of your heart are not built correctly and it will lead to an enlarged heart. During strenuous exercise, the electrical impulses can get jacked up causing a cardiac arrest. This is a genetic condition.

However, given that these two guys were 60+ and had, apparently, led very active lifes, it is not likely that it was HCM. HCM will generally lead to an issue earlier in an active life.

In vast majority of cases like this, it is more likely that the exercise prolonged the life.

Thanks, that makes sense.


The only other genetic issue I can think of that would potentially be "don't exercise" would be sickle cell... but given that these guys were white, that is even less likely than HCM.
 
2014-01-23 10:58:54 AM

bacongood: Masta Kronix: It's mainly articles like this where, otherwise healthy individuals, die due to heart failure while jogging/running and/or exercising.

I know Heart Disease is a complicated disease and there are a myriad of factors (Genetics, Past Lifestyle Habits, artery condition, etc.) that are in play so that's why I was wondering if the "experienced interventional cardiologist" could weigh in or provide me with any reliable information concerning jogging/running.

My understanding is that relatively mild cardio daily is safe and extremely healthy for you, anything less than an hour a day, at a moderate pace. Anything longer and more rigorous (Marathon, Endurance training, etc.) and you run the risk of serious injury and/or damaging your heart permanently or in the long-term?

This article isn't a study, it is a random event.

While a marathon (and I have done numerous of them) is not a "healthy" thing to do, marathon training is extremely healthy.  The recommended 30 minutes of moderate exercise is a baseline - it is the bare minimum a healthy person should be doing.  Do more, you'll be more healthy and have less health risks.  The slight risks of an exercise induced cardiac incident is dwarfed by the overall benefits.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/107/1/e2.full

I have never seen a study showing a connection between heart damage and exercise outside of underlying issues like HCM.

As for injuries... yeah, they happen.  I would get less stress fractures if I didn't run, but I would also weigh 50 lbs more and that would lead to more serious chronic issues.

That being said, the best exercise plan is one that you will stick to.

Masta Kronix: I understand your heart has a certain number of beats but it's also my understanding that cardio exercise has been proven to extend the life of your heart and cause it to beat more efficiently and with less stress.

This is simply not true.


I was speaking more metaphorically rather than literally. I assumed he didn't mean you're "literally" born with X amount of beats until your heart gives out :]

Thanks for the information and link to the scientific study, truly do appreciate it, I'm reading it now.
 
2014-01-23 11:00:55 AM
Bill Hicks tried to warn us.

NSFW Language
 
2014-01-23 11:17:01 AM

bacongood: The only other genetic issue I can think of that would potentially be "don't exercise" would be sickle cell... but given that these guys were white, that is even less likely than HCM.


They may have needed to be on drugs but instead followed the diet and exercise route. Some high risk people need to do both.
 
2014-01-23 11:18:22 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Masta Kronix: I don't get any pain during or after jogging, it's always at random intervals, usually during a resting state, and only lasts anywhere from a minute or less.

do you do any weight lifting or chest exercises like push ups. That happened to me. I would get sharp pains everyone once in a while in the chest. Hurt my shoulder and had to stop working out for a few months. The pain stopped.


No I haven't progressed to weight lifting yet.

I've always just stuck with cardio my entire life. As a child I was very active with sports such as swimming, soccer and Golf. I'm a tall, skinny guy with ridiculously long limbs, 6'5" 200 lbs., and gaining muscle mass has always seemed impossible no matter what I try so why weight lift if I can't seem to gain any muscle mass.

I always assumed cardio was for overall health and weight lifting was for strength/aesthetics, but that's just always been my assumption. I've only recently been trying to really learn as much as I can about my health and ways to improve it so that could just be a misconception on my part.

That's why the chest pain is so confusion/concerning to me even though my doctors say not to worry. While I do cardio exercise often, I don't do much weight lifting and I work in an Office so I don't strain my muscle that often. Plus I know and recognize muscle pain from exercising and the occasional soreness in my chest/arms from rigorous yard work/manual labor around the house. I'm an active individual, I don't live a sedentary lifestyle however I don't lift weights and the pain I'm experiencing at random intervals isn't what I experience from normal muscle soreness and fatigue a day or so after jogging or working in the yard.

I'm starting to think it may be stress or anxiety related as Yankees Team Gynecologist has suggested. I recently quit smoking Weed, used to smoke religiously since I was 24 to help with my Tourette Syndrome, OCD and ADHD but 4 months ago it literally out of no where caused me to have a serious panic/anxiety attack and haven't been able smoke since then without it inducing a panic/anxiety attack.

Since I've been unable to smoke weed without having an anxiety attack, I've noticed I've started to experience what I can only describe as General Anxiety at regular intervals over the course of the day and the only time I have ever experience a full blown anxiety attack is when I attempt to take a hit of bud. I've only had 4 anxiety attacks my whole life, they've all happened since the first attack a few months ago when smoking with a friend and the next 3 times I attempted to smoke again thinking it was a fluke. This all literally has started happening over the course of the past few months and I've been trying to figure out what exactly is going on.

Really do appreciate the advice and thoughts on what might be going on. shiats weird and don't like it :lol:
 
2014-01-23 12:02:52 PM

DrewCurtisJr: bacongood: The only other genetic issue I can think of that would potentially be "don't exercise" would be sickle cell... but given that these guys were white, that is even less likely than HCM.

They may have needed to be on drugs but instead followed the diet and exercise route. Some high risk people need to do both.


For sickle cell?  There is no reason to assume these guys had any risk.
 
2014-01-23 12:31:46 PM

bacongood: For sickle cell?  There is no reason to assume these guys had any risk.


No not for sickle cell. I am assuming they had some risk factors since they did both die of heart attacks.
 
2014-01-23 01:13:38 PM

bacongood: Masta Kronix: I understand your heart has a certain number of beats

This is simply not true.


Even if were true, regular running would still prolong your life. The reduced heart rate for the time you're not running would more than make up for the extra ones while running.

/runner for ~40 years.
 
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