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(BBC)   U.S. military allowing uniform exemptions for more religions, including Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, and Sikh. No word yet on Pastafarians   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 82
    More: Interesting, Wiccan, Muslims, Jewish, Sikhs, U.S., U.S. military, good order, religious freedom  
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3323 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2014 at 3:31 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-23 08:08:19 AM  

stoli n coke: Besides, don't most of the religions mentioned in TFA have some pretty concrete rules against killing people? The troops seemed to have reconciled their beliefs with that, but they think headgear is going to be the final straw with their god?


Wars have always had a "killing people" exception in most every religion ever. (Sure there are some pacifist religions, the exception rather than the rule)
 
2014-01-23 08:08:46 AM  
Amardeep Singh, co-founder of the Sikh Coalition, an advocacy group, described the new Pentagon measure as "a step forward" but said it still represented uncertainty for Sikh Americans, whose religion requires men to wear turbans, beards and long hair.

"What is the incentive to enlist when there's such little clarity if you'll be accommodated," he asked.


Well, for one, to avoid the Draft from being brought back, which means, if called, you go whether or not you wanted to enlist in the first place.

Plus, the basic design of the military is to uniformly train, dress and equip all members, to give them the basic skills needed to stay alive and be effective in battle and to get a huge group of very different people to act and operate together instead of performing as random individuals with a propensity to shoot each other in the ass.

Under battlefield conditions, commanders can't worry if one platoon gets rations with pork in them or has fish on a specific day and using a prayer rug 5 times a day can get your butt shot off by some enemy sniper who's been waiting for you to kick off your shoes, drop your rifle and start your ritual.

In battle, the enemy doesn't really care what religion you are, just that their bullets will poke holes in you as readily as in anything else. If you're captured, they're not going to be all that thoughtful about your prison accommodations either. As US POWs in Vietnam discovered, the enemy wasn't real concerned about what they had to feed you either nor how much and if you biatched that your religion forbade the consumption of a certain food, you'd probably get a rifle butt to the face and then be left to starve.

A military too concerned about the various foibles of its members tends to become progressively ineffective.

The Brits learned that ages ago when during a war in India, someone spread a rumor among their many Muslim troops that the cartridges for their rifles were greased with pig fat. Since pork is forbidden in the religion, thousands of soldiers refused to touch the ammo and got sent to meet their God by enemy soldiers who had no problem with any kind of grease coating their bullets.

The Great Roman military was successful mainly by uniformly equipping its members, training them in universal rules and regulations and if their religions got in the way, well either frequent whippings while tied to a post or a prompt execution convinced them to not fuss about such things.
 
2014-01-23 08:15:19 AM  
Given as badass as the Sikh's have been for the British military, anything that gets them into US military units, is probably good for the US military.
 
2014-01-23 08:15:24 AM  
FTW RIK01. Apparently, the military has forgotten all of this.  Unless this is a huge ole troll article...
 
2014-01-23 08:15:36 AM  

GORDON: Gyrfalcon: That's nice, but then it's not a "uniform" anymore, is it?

Anyway, who cares, as long as they all wear the same thing in COMBAT, you know?

Good luck getting a good seal with that gas mask with that big bushy beard.


Break your seal and say your name, rank, and platoon!
i26.photobucket.com
i26.photobucket.comi26.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-23 08:29:24 AM  

uttertosh: Lith: Tin foil is for amateurs, gotta have the 'dillo helmet.

First of all - I read that as dildo. Second - I'm telling Maggie you said that.


What a dildo helmet might look like... (Not sure if SFW...)
 
2014-01-23 08:33:07 AM  

TwistedFark: AverageAmericanGuy: mhd: ShawnDoc: What accommodations need to be made for wiccans?

Camo robes?

[img.fark.net image 468x240]

WTF? Elfstar just shows up, gets a brief intro and suddenly she's a priestess of the Temple of Diana?

Come on!

She must be blowing the DM. Like I'm pretty sure last week she failed her saving throw vs. that green slime, but she just "happened" to have another +2 bonus from some bullshiat amulet of resistance vs. green slimes that she "miraculously" found on her character sheet after Scott pointed it out to her.

All this while my 7 foot tall barbarian gets knocked over by a kobold and falls on a punji stick, skewering his lower intestine because of an "unlucky roll". I mean, really, a kobold? Whatever.

Seriously, the next time Scott wants to get everyone together for D&D night, well he and Debbie can trade system shock rolls all night for all I care. I'm going to stay home and practice for my ~~ r'uustai  ceremony with Jeff for the next con.

Take that, jerkstar.


Been through that bullshiat a number of times.  Hate it when there's a girl in a gaming group that everyone, including the DM, wants to fark, she KNOWS they like her, and she's willing to flirt with them to mess around.
 
2014-01-23 08:38:18 AM  

GORDON: Gyrfalcon: That's nice, but then it's not a "uniform" anymore, is it?

Anyway, who cares, as long as they all wear the same thing in COMBAT, you know?

Good luck getting a good seal with that gas mask with that big bushy beard.


They smear vaseline over the beard.  Probably get a better seal than most.
 
2014-01-23 08:58:39 AM  
No such thing as a uniform exception. You are either uniform or not.

/pansy brigade
 
2014-01-23 09:07:38 AM  

Molavian: GORDON: Gyrfalcon: That's nice, but then it's not a "uniform" anymore, is it?

Anyway, who cares, as long as they all wear the same thing in COMBAT, you know?

Good luck getting a good seal with that gas mask with that big bushy beard.

They smear vaseline over the beard.  Probably get a better seal than most.


Will they add time for that extra step when they do their CTT testing in MOPP gear?
 
2014-01-23 09:12:58 AM  
What's next, the army will no longer be aloud to refer to recruits as pukes and maggots?
No more tearing down of the individual mind so they can be rebuilt as a lean mean killing machine?

Red Dawn (the remake) is right around the corner!

/everybody panic!
//misses that headline meme
 
2014-01-23 09:38:04 AM  

MBooda: Subby, you haven't kept up with the times, have you?
[iowntheworld.com image 700x1022]
[www.truthorfiction.com image 354x400]


Ok that made my farking morning.


/now THAT would farking strike fear in our enemies!
 
2014-01-23 09:54:32 AM  

Rik01: The Great Roman military was successful mainly by uniformly equipping its members, training them in universal rules and regulations and if their religions got in the way, well either frequent whippings while tied to a post or a prompt execution convinced them to not fuss about such things.

letting the foreigners do what they like so long as they get into the fray first and skirmish or run cavalry.

The Brits learned first that not allowing them their various foibles would mean they'd have no native toops at all, leaving 50,000 men to try to control the subcontinent.

The Persians worked the same way.
 
2014-01-23 10:07:32 AM  
Wow. So much ignorance and bigotry here. Typical Fark.
 
2014-01-23 11:06:02 AM  
What about us Frisbeetarians ?????
tip of the hat to mr. carlin
 
2014-01-23 11:09:15 AM  
They will be if Pastafarianism is on the military's "approved" list. Otherwise, no.
 
2014-01-23 11:12:50 AM  

RobSeace: What a dildo helmet might look like... (Not sure if SFW...)


Depends on where you work.
 
2014-01-23 11:46:27 AM  

Rik01: The Brits learned that ages ago when during a war in India, someone spread a rumor among their many Muslim troops that the cartridges for their rifles were greased with pig fat. Since pork is forbidden in the religion, thousands of soldiers refused to touch the ammo and got sent to meet their God by enemy soldiers who had no problem with any kind of grease coating their bullets.


Your ignorance is showing. They weren't at war when the rumor was started (btw, the rumor said pork and beef fat were used, the latter to upset the Hindu troops). The Muslim and Hindu troops mutinied because of the rumor and killed a lot of British soldiers because they felt that their beliefs were NOT being accommodated.
 
2014-01-23 11:57:39 AM  

Onkel Buck: I was stationed at RedStone Arsenal for AIT in 1994 and there was a Sikh there who had SMAJ rank on his turban. Rumor was it was the only place he could serve in the US Army.

/CSB
//Bco 832nd


There was a Sikh warrant in one of my classes in '92. (And the headgear is called a dastar.)
 
2014-01-23 12:03:30 PM  

Onkel Buck: GORDON: Gyrfalcon: That's nice, but then it's not a "uniform" anymore, is it?

Anyway, who cares, as long as they all wear the same thing in COMBAT, you know?

Good luck getting a good seal with that gas mask with that big bushy beard.

Break your seal and say your name, rank, and platoon!
[i26.photobucket.com image 320x217]
[i26.photobucket.com image 306x320][i26.photobucket.com image 320x213]


Fark that.
Remove and store your mask.
Side straddle hop!
Starting position, move.
Begin. ...
By the time you hit ten repetitions, your life sucks.

/For goodness' sake, securely close the mask carrier.
//Going back in for it sucks even more.
///We used CN in Germany. (Farking Luftwaffe.)
 
2014-01-23 12:54:16 PM  

ciderczar: Rik01: The Great Roman military was successful mainly by uniformly equipping its members, training them in universal rules and regulations and if their religions got in the way, well either frequent whippings while tied to a post or a prompt execution convinced them to not fuss about such things. letting the foreigners do what they like so long as they get into the fray first and skirmish or run cavalry.

The Brits learned first that not allowing them their various foibles would mean they'd have no native toops at all, leaving 50,000 men to try to control the subcontinent.

The Persians worked the same way.


Good point. The US so closely resembles the Roman Empire... check it out.
In all seriousness, the military is the Third Leg of our govt.
Normally taciturn, whenever they make an announcement, my fur curls a bit, and stands to attention.

Ever wonder how the US could control [quickly] its 330 million rebellious inhabitants?
There are'nt enough cops + Natl Guard to do the job.
We would have to import...

A change of appearance may seem innocent,
if we are able to count the the Third Leg as innocent and benevolent.
Its a good thing that the other 2 legs of our govt. are trustworthy, above board and benevolent... Eh?

in my experience with H. Sapiens, the third leg is where most , if not all the trouble starts.
 
2014-01-23 01:51:36 PM  

anuran: Smackledorfer: anuran: Finally. The British and Indians have managed to maintain a professional, clean-cut image with Sikhs and Muslims. Israel has done it with Orthodox Jews complete with beards, sidecurls and tzitzis.

I thought the orthadox ones lived on the dole and 'studied' their religion 23/7 instead of being useful to society?

Only the *spit* Charedim.


to anuran: the spit incident turned out to be a Hoax

to the original comment, many do serve in the Navy, Air Force, and Army through special programs designed to accommodate the religious. Religious only make up 45% of jews is Israel using legal loopholes to evade the draft, they just make an easier target because they look and live differently. Also the Israeli governments own reports show that the average haredi male only pursues religious study until age 30-33 before going out to work. And there are haredi universities and many are good workers and pay taxes and all. And to your living off the dole comment, they are 11% of Israeli society but use only 12% of welfare, thats called proportional, which is normal. Besides the IDF chief of personnel says they don't need them anyways
/the more you know

4.bp.blogspot.com

news.bbcimg.co.uk
www.ynetnews.com
 
2014-01-23 01:54:45 PM  

jedihirsch: Besides the IDF chief of personnel says they don't need them anyways


*looks at pictures*
Hmm. I wonder why.
 
2014-01-23 03:33:53 PM  
JSTACAT: in my experience with H. Sapiens, the third leg is where most , if not all the trouble starts.

More penis bashing from the Fark Feminists.
 
2014-01-23 03:55:46 PM  

Onkel Buck: Molavian: GORDON: Gyrfalcon: That's nice, but then it's not a "uniform" anymore, is it?

Anyway, who cares, as long as they all wear the same thing in COMBAT, you know?

Good luck getting a good seal with that gas mask with that big bushy beard.

They smear vaseline over the beard.  Probably get a better seal than most.

Will they add time for that extra step when they do their CTT testing in MOPP gear?


I honestly have no idea.  I'd like to think they wouldn't.
 
2014-01-23 04:15:09 PM  
JSTACAT:

in my experience with H. Sapiens Erectus, the third leg is where most , if not all the trouble starts.

FTFM
 
2014-01-23 04:24:19 PM  
From the guys over at Power Point Ranger

i264.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-23 05:42:54 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: jedihirsch: Besides the IDF chief of personnel says they don't need them anyways

*looks at pictures*
Hmm. I wonder why.


Actually its because they have met their current personnel requirements and she has been known for wanting to get rid of any haredi soldiers in the army. When she was a brigadier general she was brought up on charges of anti-religious bias in choosing and denying officer promotions. She was found guilty but with no punishment, so she rose up in charge of personnel
 
2014-01-23 07:42:43 PM  

jedihirsch: demaL-demaL-yeH: jedihirsch: Besides the IDF chief of personnel says they don't need them anyways

*looks at pictures*
Hmm. I wonder why.

Actually its because they have met their current personnel requirements and she has been known for wanting to get rid of any haredi soldiers in the army. When she was a brigadier general she was brought up on charges of anti-religious bias in choosing and denying officer promotions. She was found guilty but with no punishment, so she rose up in charge of personnel


And I wonder just how much extra it costs to cater to them ... and how they treat female soldiers, let alone those in positions of authority.
 
2014-01-23 09:03:21 PM  

mike_d85: AverageAmericanGuy: mhd: ShawnDoc: What accommodations need to be made for wiccans?

Camo robes?

WTF? Elfstar just shows up, gets a brief intro and suddenly she's a priestess of the Temple of Diana?

Come on!

Don' t you know? They're ALL priestesses.

Which is actually true in their doctrine. Everyone should teach everyone. It's just that 16 year old converts won't shut up about being a preistess.

/Seriously, what wardrobe?
//fiancée is a Wiccan priestess.


Thought Wiccans had to be at least Third Degree to be considered priests/priestesses?
 
2014-01-24 03:31:01 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: jedihirsch: demaL-demaL-yeH: jedihirsch: Besides the IDF chief of personnel says they don't need them anyways

*looks at pictures*
Hmm. I wonder why.

Actually its because they have met their current personnel requirements and she has been known for wanting to get rid of any haredi soldiers in the army. When she was a brigadier general she was brought up on charges of anti-religious bias in choosing and denying officer promotions. She was found guilty but with no punishment, so she rose up in charge of personnel

And I wonder just how much extra it costs to cater to them ... and how they treat female soldiers, let alone those in positions of authority.


Actually the cost has been found to be minimal. The IDF already requires kosher ingredients only, its just to mixing meat and dairy, different pots, and a IDF chaplain supervising the process. As to how they treat female soldiers since 1948 the IDF has recorded zero incidents of haredi solider mistreating female soldiers or disrespecting female superiors (yes Haredi jews have served since the beginning, three of the four MK's from the ashkenazik haredi party served as did some from the sephardic one). There have been however several hundred incidents a year of anti-haredi mistreatment and harassment by secular Israeli soldiers, mostly from female one. Oh sure the Israeli media always likes to talk that the haredi in the army will do those things if drafted, but its never happened. In fact incidents against women by haredi men are rare (though they make the media, even international, every time it happens, but its very rare) and in those cases the men have always been part of a fringe group called the Sikarikim, which are outcasts from the main haredi community
 
2014-01-24 04:34:15 PM  

jedihirsch: demaL-demaL-yeH: jedihirsch: demaL-demaL-yeH: jedihirsch: Besides the IDF chief of personnel says they don't need them anyways

*looks at pictures*
Hmm. I wonder why.

Actually its because they have met their current personnel requirements and she has been known for wanting to get rid of any haredi soldiers in the army. When she was a brigadier general she was brought up on charges of anti-religious bias in choosing and denying officer promotions. She was found guilty but with no punishment, so she rose up in charge of personnel

And I wonder just how much extra it costs to cater to them ... and how they treat female soldiers, let alone those in positions of authority.

Actually the cost has been found to be minimal. The IDF already requires kosher ingredients only, its just to mixing meat and dairy, different pots, and a IDF chaplain supervising the process. As to how they treat female soldiers since 1948 the IDF has recorded zero incidents of haredi solider mistreating female soldiers or disrespecting female superiors (yes Haredi jews have served since the beginning, three of the four MK's from the ashkenazik haredi party served as did some from the sephardic one). There have been however several hundred incidents a year of anti-haredi mistreatment and harassment by secular Israeli soldiers, mostly from female one. Oh sure the Israeli media always likes to talk that the haredi in the army will do those things if drafted, but its never happened. In fact incidents against women by haredi men are rare (though they make the media, even international, every time it happens, but its very rare) and in those cases the men have always been part of a fringe group called the Sikarikim, which are outcasts from the main haredi community


AIPAC can't pay you enough for you to whore yourself out like this.
 
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