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(BBC)   F***ing magnets, how do they work on migraines   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 46
    More: Interesting, magnet therapy, migraines, TMS, suffering, magnets, British Association, quoted-printable  
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2221 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Jan 2014 at 3:03 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-22 01:33:18 PM
Nothing works as well for migraines as pot. And it works fast.
 
2014-01-22 01:45:01 PM

quickdraw: Nothing works as well for migraines as pot. And it works fast.


Yes, but that whole "holding your breath" thing sucks bigtime on the exhale.

/Or so I've heard.
 
2014-01-22 01:56:27 PM

PainInTheASP: quickdraw: Nothing works as well for migraines as pot. And it works fast.

Yes, but that whole "holding your breath" thing sucks bigtime on the exhale.

/Or so I've heard.


You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.
 
2014-01-22 01:57:09 PM
 
2014-01-22 02:35:59 PM
Great, now every idiot selling quack magnet treatments is going to have an easier time ripping off his marks.

The science: you need HUGE swings in current applied right to your skull in order to have any effect. I also don't like that it is so undirected. It's the magnetic equivalent of hitting your brain with a hammer.
 
2014-01-22 02:40:18 PM

Etchy333: You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.


When suffering from a migrane, you don't want to wait 1-2 hours for the edible MJ to kick in.
 
2014-01-22 02:59:18 PM
img.gawkerassets.com

Lllllladies.
 
2014-01-22 03:05:20 PM
Farking repeats, how do they get greened?
 
2014-01-22 03:16:17 PM
We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.
 
2014-01-22 03:16:28 PM

ShawnDoc: Etchy333: You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.

When suffering from a migrane, you don't want to wait 1-2 hours for the edible MJ to kick in.


Oxygen therapy and some pain meds usually work faster. Unfortunately, you're calling an ambulance to get the oxygen.
 
2014-01-22 03:25:01 PM

Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.


WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.
 
2014-01-22 03:27:46 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: ShawnDoc: Etchy333: You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.

When suffering from a migrane, you don't want to wait 1-2 hours for the edible MJ to kick in.

Oxygen therapy and some pain meds usually work faster. Unfortunately, you're calling an ambulance to get the oxygen.


For me, Imetrix gets rid of one in < 20 minutes.  Take one, turn the shower up to "can cook a lobster in this", and soak my head until it takes effect.  Its the only thing that works on mine.
 
2014-01-22 03:28:19 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.


What's your point?  That the WHO makes some decisions that respect verifiable science and some that do not?
 
2014-01-22 03:31:56 PM

Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.

What's your point?  That the WHO makes some decisions that respect verifiable science and some that do not?


You didn't get the point? I have to explain it to you?

You just said you couldn't trust what was said by an organization that endorses acupuncture, casting doubt on everything else they say. I mean, they endorse one you don't like so everything else they say is wrong, right?
 
2014-01-22 03:33:47 PM

Hack Patooey: Clock Spider Jerusalem: ShawnDoc: Etchy333: You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.

When suffering from a migrane, you don't want to wait 1-2 hours for the edible MJ to kick in.

Oxygen therapy and some pain meds usually work faster. Unfortunately, you're calling an ambulance to get the oxygen.

For me, Imetrix gets rid of one in < 20 minutes.  Take one, turn the shower up to "can cook a lobster in this", and soak my head until it takes effect.  Its the only thing that works on mine.


I found those re-usable heat packs with the metal clicker in them on the base of the skull can help if you can't get access to anything else.
 
2014-01-22 03:36:02 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.

What's your point?  That the WHO makes some decisions that respect verifiable science and some that do not?

You didn't get the point? I have to explain it to you?

You just said you couldn't trust what was said by an organization that endorses acupuncture, casting doubt on everything else they say. I mean, they endorse one you don't like so everything else they say is wrong, right?


I think what he saying is that an endorsement of acupuncture isn't based on evidence and medical organizations that endorse things that have been verified to do nothing have significantly weakened their credibility.
 
2014-01-22 03:39:19 PM

b2theory: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.

What's your point?  That the WHO makes some decisions that respect verifiable science and some that do not?

You didn't get the point? I have to explain it to you?

You just said you couldn't trust what was said by an organization that endorses acupuncture, casting doubt on everything else they say. I mean, they endorse one you don't like so everything else they say is wrong, right?

I think what he saying is that an endorsement of acupuncture isn't based on evidence and medical organizations that endorse things that have been verified to do nothing have significantly weakened their credibility.


I was making the point that one can't just disregard everything an organization does like he did. 

Oddly, the WHO cites medical studies for the uses of acupuncture.
 
2014-01-22 03:43:07 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: b2theory: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.

What's your point?  That the WHO makes some decisions that respect verifiable science and some that do not?

You didn't get the point? I have to explain it to you?

You just said you couldn't trust what was said by an organization that endorses acupuncture, casting doubt on everything else they say. I mean, they endorse one you don't like so everything else they say is wrong, right?

I think what he saying is that an endorsement of acupuncture isn't based on evidence and medical organizations that endorse things that have been verified to do nothing have significantly weakened their credibility.

I was making the point that one can't just disregard everything an organization does like he did. 

Oddly, the WHO cites medical studies for the uses of acupuncture.


We aren't talking about opinions here.
 
2014-01-22 03:49:35 PM
Huh, this explains it a little; both chiropractic and acupuncturist quacks are on their board that drafted their "CG150" Headache mitigation guidelines.

George Rix
Chiropractor; Senior Lecturer, Anglo European College of Chiropractic

Persis Tamboly
British Acupuncture Council Member

Vested interests, anyone?
 
2014-01-22 03:56:02 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: b2theory: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.

What's your point?  That the WHO makes some decisions that respect verifiable science and some that do not?

You didn't get the point? I have to explain it to you?

You just said you couldn't trust what was said by an organization that endorses acupuncture, casting doubt on everything else they say. I mean, they endorse one you don't like so everything else they say is wrong, right?

I think what he saying is that an endorsement of acupuncture isn't based on evidence and medical organizations that endorse things that have been verified to do nothing have significantly weakened their credibility.

I was making the point that one can't just disregard everything an organization does like he did. 

Oddly, the WHO cites medical studies for the uses of acupuncture.


Dude, extraordinary claims require blah blah blah. Asserting that low power magnets have any quantifiable benefit is an extraordinary claim.  That they would also endorse something as blatantly mythical as acupuncture does not lend credence to their present endorsement of the magnet doohickey.

Nowhere did I "disregard everything" they've ever said or done.  I'm not made of straw.

You like magnets?  Hey, stick 'em all over for all I care.
 
2014-01-22 03:56:28 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: ShawnDoc: Etchy333: You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.

When suffering from a migrane, you don't want to wait 1-2 hours for the edible MJ to kick in.

Oxygen therapy and some pain meds usually work faster. Unfortunately, you're calling an ambulance to get the oxygen.


You can drop a dart on just about any map and there will be a welding supply place within 50 miles of it.  If I got migraines and oxygen helped, I would have a cylinder of it in the garage.
 
2014-01-22 03:58:44 PM

Benjimin_Dover: Clock Spider Jerusalem: ShawnDoc: Etchy333: You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.

When suffering from a migrane, you don't want to wait 1-2 hours for the edible MJ to kick in.

Oxygen therapy and some pain meds usually work faster. Unfortunately, you're calling an ambulance to get the oxygen.

You can drop a dart on just about any map and there will be a welding supply place within 50 miles of it.  If I got migraines and oxygen helped, I would have a cylinder of it in the garage.


According to another poster (Fark It, I think) "medical grade" oxygen is a tightly controlled prescription product.  And he thought it should be, for some godforsaken reason.

No idea what happens if you ingest "welding grade" oxygen.
 
2014-01-22 03:59:47 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: Hack Patooey: Clock Spider Jerusalem: ShawnDoc: Etchy333: You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.

When suffering from a migrane, you don't want to wait 1-2 hours for the edible MJ to kick in.

Oxygen therapy and some pain meds usually work faster. Unfortunately, you're calling an ambulance to get the oxygen.

For me, Imetrix gets rid of one in < 20 minutes.  Take one, turn the shower up to "can cook a lobster in this", and soak my head until it takes effect.  Its the only thing that works on mine.

I found those re-usable heat packs with the metal clicker in them on the base of the skull can help if you can't get access to anything else.


Yep, I have a bunch of those I rotate from microwave to head, in case I have to work while I have one...
 
2014-01-22 04:05:07 PM

b2theory: The science: you need HUGE swings in current applied right to your skull in order to have any effect. I also don't like that it is so undirected. It's the magnetic equivalent of hitting your brain with a hammer.


This. I worked with TMS on a research rotation for a summer. I was asked to volunteer for study in which they simulated various stroke symptoms by applying TMS in different areas. No. farking. way. was my answer. I think I'd rather have a skull-splitting migraine than ever subject myself to TMS...

Clock Spider Jerusalem: I found those re-usable heat packs with the metal clicker in them on the base of the skull can help if you can't get access to anything else.


A heat pack would make my migraines worse. I go for imitrex and put an ice pack at that same spot.
 
2014-01-22 04:09:32 PM

Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: b2theory: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.

What's your point?  That the WHO makes some decisions that respect verifiable science and some that do not?

You didn't get the point? I have to explain it to you?

You just said you couldn't trust what was said by an organization that endorses acupuncture, casting doubt on everything else they say. I mean, they endorse one you don't like so everything else they say is wrong, right?

I think what he saying is that an endorsement of acupuncture isn't based on evidence and medical organizations that endorse things that have been verified to do nothing have significantly weakened their credibility.

I was making the point that one can't just disregard everything an organization does like he did. 

Oddly, the WHO cites medical studies for the uses of acupuncture.

Dude, extraordinary claims require blah blah blah. Asserting that low power magnets have any quantifiable benefit is an extraordinary claim.  That they would also endorse something as blatantly mythical as acupuncture does not lend credence to their present endorsement of the magnet doohickey.

Nowhere did I "disregard everything" they've ever said or done.  I'm not made of straw.

You like magnets?  Hey, stick 'em all over for all I care.


I don't give a fark about magnets except for the ones keeping stuff on my fridge. I was just pointing out in your first statement you seemed to be completely writing off  transcranial magnet therapy as new age crap on part with crystal therapy and that it was hippies sticking little magnets on their chakras. Turns out it's doctors sticking an electromagnetic coil on the base of someone's skull.

Listen, you were the one who basically said you couldn't trust them on anything because they endorsed acupuncture. I thought that was over reacting a little. You kind of did that strawman thing with them.
 
2014-01-22 04:14:01 PM
I just drill holes in my skull to release the evil spirits
 
2014-01-22 04:15:58 PM

atlantic_lotion: b2theory: The science: you need HUGE swings in current applied right to your skull in order to have any effect. I also don't like that it is so undirected. It's the magnetic equivalent of hitting your brain with a hammer.

This. I worked with TMS on a research rotation for a summer. I was asked to volunteer for study in which they simulated various stroke symptoms by applying TMS in different areas. No. farking. way. was my answer. I think I'd rather have a skull-splitting migraine than ever subject myself to TMS...


I'd be strangely worried about somehow making them worse. There's an unhappy thought.
 
2014-01-22 05:00:10 PM

atlantic_lotion: I worked with TMS on a research rotation for a summer. I was asked to volunteer for study in which they simulated various stroke symptoms by applying TMS in different areas. No. farking. way. was my answer. I think I'd rather have a skull-splitting migraine than ever subject myself to TMS...


Not the same thing at all, but it looks like current applied to the brain might alleviate symptoms of Parkinson's (DBS - deep-brain stimulation, IIRC).

And there is support for the idea that people suffering certain SEVERE mental disorders - severe depression, severe psychosis, etc - can have their minds "reset" with electric current. It sounds like old-school "electro-shock" therapy, but the doses are much smaller, they're targeted to specific areas of the brain, and only used in severe cases where meds haven't done the trick.

Side-effects include loss of short- or long-term memory, drop in affect (and associated weight gain), loss or reduction in speech, change in personality. And as far as I've heard, all except a change in personality are temporary (and the "personality" change might be what they were going for).

// and use of acupuncture for minor things like nerve twitches and surface pains has been researched
// several members of my family are working as CAM researchers (focused more on the acupuncture/meditation side of things rather than homeopathy - which any chemist like my dad could tell you is 100% undiluted bullshiat)
// a military-medical research foundation and a university grad program, if you're curious
 
2014-01-22 05:08:42 PM
"2013-12-31 Magnets cure migraines, how the fark does that work?"

// submitted this last year
 
2014-01-22 05:30:59 PM
My friend's father sunk all of his life savings into magnetic bracelets and other magnetic woo. What a moron.
 
2014-01-22 05:32:22 PM

Far Cough: Huh, this explains it a little; both chiropractic and acupuncturist quacks are on their board that drafted their "CG150" Headache mitigation guidelines.

George Rix
Chiropractor; Senior Lecturer, Anglo European College of Chiropractic

Persis Tamboly
British Acupuncture Council Member

Vested interests, anyone?


No kidding, we need credibility here. Where's a reflexologist when you need one?
 
2014-01-22 05:36:08 PM
FTFA: "In a trial in 164 patients, TMS worked twice as well as sham or placebo therapy and about 40% were pain-free two hours after using the device."

Alright, maybe the local fark math experts can chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't two times zero still zero?  Cause I coulda sworn that's how it worked.  Course, I haven't had my coffee today, so who knows what crazy things I might say.
 
2014-01-22 05:40:34 PM

Rezurok: FTFA: "In a trial in 164 patients, TMS worked twice as well as sham or placebo therapy and about 40% were pain-free two hours after using the device."

Alright, maybe the local fark math experts can chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't two times zero still zero?  Cause I coulda sworn that's how it worked.  Course, I haven't had my coffee today, so who knows what crazy things I might say.


I can see their advertising now. "Migra-Magnets! TWICE as effective as bullshiat!"
 
2014-01-22 05:42:00 PM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: b2theory: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.

What's your point?  That the WHO makes some decisions that respect verifiable science and some that do not?

You didn't get the point? I have to explain it to you?

You just said you couldn't trust what was said by an organization that endorses acupuncture, casting doubt on everything else they say. I mean, they endorse one you don't like so everything else they say is wrong, right?

I think what he saying is that an endorsement of acupuncture isn't based on evidence and medical organizations that endorse things that have been verified to do nothing have significantly weakened their credibility.

I was making the point that one can't just disregard everything an organization does like he did. 

Oddly, the WHO cites medical studies for the uses of acupuncture.

Dude, extraordinary claims require blah blah blah. Asserting that low power magnets have any quantifiable benefit is an extraordinary claim.  That they would also endorse something as blatantly mythical as acupuncture does not lend credence to their present endorsement of the magnet doohickey.

Nowhere did I "disregard everything" they've ever said or done.  I'm not made of straw.

You like magnets?  Hey, stick 'em all over for all I care.

I don't give a fark about magnets except for the ones keeping stuff on my fridge. I was just pointing out in your first statement you seemed to be completely writing off  transcranial magnet therapy as new age crap on part with crystal therapy and that it was hippies sticking little magnets on their chakras. Turns out it's doctors sticking an electromagnetic coil on the base of someone's skull.

Listen, you were the one who basically said you couldn't trust them on anything because they endorsed acupuncture. I thought that was over reacting a little. You kind of did that strawman thing with them.


Listen, guys, I like the Who just add much as anyone else, but should we really take medical advise from a band seriously in the first place?
 
2014-01-22 05:48:51 PM

quickdraw: Nothing works as well for migraines as pot. And it works fast.


For the most part, THIS.

Max Alt was somewhat effective, but only if I took it before the migraine took hold.

Weed was almost always effective if smoked before it took hold, and very good at reducing the pain and eliminating nausea if I was too late.
 
2014-01-22 06:18:45 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-22 06:36:06 PM

Far Cough: Benjimin_Dover: Clock Spider Jerusalem: ShawnDoc: Etchy333: You may want to tell those people you're hearing that from that they may want to get their pot in an edible form.

When suffering from a migrane, you don't want to wait 1-2 hours for the edible MJ to kick in.

Oxygen therapy and some pain meds usually work faster. Unfortunately, you're calling an ambulance to get the oxygen.

You can drop a dart on just about any map and there will be a welding supply place within 50 miles of it.  If I got migraines and oxygen helped, I would have a cylinder of it in the garage.

According to another poster (Fark It, I think) "medical grade" oxygen is a tightly controlled prescription product.  And he thought it should be, for some godforsaken reason.

No idea what happens if you ingest "welding grade" oxygen.


We lived next to a guy that had emphysema and got his tanks filled at the local welding supply center.  The guys down at the shop filled the medical tanks with the same oxygen that they fill the welding tanks with.  From what I gather, the difference is that the medical tanks have to be controlled with FDA regulations and lot# and such which add to the cost.  At any rate, if all somebody is going to do is huff it occasionally for a headache, I don't see any danger. A quick search seems to indicate that there are only two common kinds of oxygen.  One for welding/medical and one for aviators.

/not an expert
 
2014-01-22 08:05:06 PM
look at the monkeys trying to heat themselves! it's so cute!
 
2014-01-22 08:28:20 PM
Did not Penn and Teller prove the magnet therapy is bullshirt?
 
2014-01-22 10:05:10 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: [i.imgur.com image 707x974]


Somewhere I think I still have a pair of these, got them for free back in the day. Was mostly just curious to see if it was a real thing or if the website was intentionally fake. Turns out Alex Chiu is real -- and really nuts.
 
2014-01-23 03:36:39 AM
I am really really really farking really sceptical. The long and ignoble history of bullshiat medical scams using magnets (my mother out-law didnt talk to me for a week after I told her her magnasleep matress cover was a hilariously stupid scam) may have something to do with that.
 
2014-01-23 09:32:03 AM

Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.


Acupuncture actually does work on migraines.  Mine anyway.  Unfortunately I had to go twice a week and I just couldn't afford $80 a session twice a week.
 
2014-01-23 10:21:26 AM

jylcat: Clock Spider Jerusalem: Far Cough: We're supposed to trust an organization that endorses freaking "acupuncture"?  So much wasted time, money, and hope.

Magnet didn't work?  Here -- hold this crystal.  $500, please.

WHO endorses acupuncture. They also endorse vaccination.

Acupuncture actually does work on migraines.  Mine anyway.  Unfortunately I had to go twice a week and I just couldn't afford $80 a session twice a week.


If anyone is friends with jylcat, have someone pretend to be an acupuncturist and then pretend to apply needles to him or her at a budget price; say he's a student or something and will only charge $10.  It will help out with the headaches and will have EXACTLY the same (placebo) effect as jylcat enjoyed from the "real" acupuncturist.  That's a fact.

Also, I don't know much at all about "TMS" and may have overstated the case against it.  I said "low power"; if it's actually high power stuff then it could have some (beneficial OR deleterious) effects.
 
2014-01-23 01:14:28 PM

Rezurok: FTFA: "In a trial in 164 patients, TMS worked twice as well as sham or placebo therapy and about 40% were pain-free two hours after using the device."

Alright, maybe the local fark math experts can chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't two times zero still zero?  Cause I coulda sworn that's how it worked.  Course, I haven't had my coffee today, so who knows what crazy things I might say.


In studies, placebos often make quite a significant difference, which makes it harder for new antidepressants to show a comparative advantage.
 
2014-01-23 01:26:50 PM
Yeah, there's hardly ever "zero" placebo effect.  Otherwise it wouldn't be much of an effect, now would it?  ;)
 
2014-01-23 09:09:13 PM

on the road: Rezurok: FTFA: "In a trial in 164 patients, TMS worked twice as well as sham or placebo therapy and about 40% were pain-free two hours after using the device."

Alright, maybe the local fark math experts can chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't two times zero still zero?  Cause I coulda sworn that's how it worked.  Course, I haven't had my coffee today, so who knows what crazy things I might say.

In studies, placebos often make quite a significant difference, which makes it harder for new antidepressants to show a comparative advantage.


I'm familiar with the placebo effect, but the article said it worked twice as well, not that patients reported feeling better twice as often.  When something works just as well as a placebo, that means it doesn't work at all.  Hence the 0.  Also, as somebody who's had a migraine or two, if your migraine is cured by a placebo, you don't have anything that remotely resembles a migraine.
 
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