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(LA Times)   The devastating results of Jenny McCarthy's reign of terror, in one world map   (latimes.com) divider line 422
    More: Sad, Jenny McCarthy, Andrew Wakefield, Michael Hiltzik, vaccinations, MMR, prenatal testing, whooping cough, Katie Couric  
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30533 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jan 2014 at 12:07 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-22 11:10:18 AM
Do read the article, not only the graph. The African red smear is because it sucks to live in a poor, tropical country. It's hard to get vaccines to people who can't even get clean water.

The anti-vaccination movement there, and there is a little, is not derived from Wakefield and McCarthy. It is cultural or the result of groups trying to be anti-Western for the sake of being anti-Western. There is still a little polio in Africa and Southwest Asia. The polio vaccine is not the one accused of causing autism. Just this week some polio vaccine security guards got blown up by militants. (Or were they shot? Same result.)

In the rich parts of the world, I see a difference in color between Europe and America. That suggests to me that refusing to take a vaccine that protects against both colors is not the sole problem.
 
2014-01-22 11:20:04 AM
The actual interactive map is here:  http://www.cfr.org/interactives/GH_Vaccine_Map/#map

And it's disturbing, sure, but I also think that it's very poorly designed, enough so that the sort of halfwits who make the anti-vaccine argument will have a ready-made argument for dismissing it. For one thing, the circles showing outbreaks are artificially large, and don't seem at all relative to one another. For example, over the Great Lakes region of the US you'll see one green (whooping cough) circle that represents 5,923 cases, and right beside it another, slightly smaller but in no way scaled, circle that represents 600. The purpose of the circles, viewed from this perspective, is to cover as much territory as possible to elicit a predictable reaction.

Also, by starting on the "all" function, it looks terribly Armageddon like at an initial view (and it's that view that's getting copied and pasted with all of the corresponding articles). A lot of people might, in fact, miss the slider bar at the top completely, which is what allows you to see outbreaks by year. It should really start with the current year, or with the last complete year for which data is available.

More disturbingly, if you bore down into the individual circles to get the more specific numbers, the first thing you'll start to see is that, despite being sorted by years, the circles themselves cover disproportionate dates and date ranges. A 2009 listing, for example, was actually displaying cases from a range going from mid-2008 through 2009, while another 2009 listing listed only 1 date in 2009 as its source (which was likely the date it was compiled). The information appears to come from multiple studies and sources as well, not from one unified agency. Why wouldn't they have used WHO statistics as the foundation?

It's important that this sort of information be shared and widely dispersed, but it needs to be done right by the people who are doing it. This is a poor effort.
 
2014-01-22 11:25:09 AM

ZAZ: Do read the article, not only the graph. The African red smear is because it sucks to live in a poor, tropical country. It's hard to get vaccines to people who can't even get clean water.


This.  Not that it isn't a problem here, IT IS, but much of the problem in Africa isn't that they don't want to vaccinate their children but that they don't even have access to the vaccines.  They are two separate issues that need to be tackled in different ways.
 
2014-01-22 11:34:45 AM
Note that Madagascar is untouched.
 
2014-01-22 11:35:17 AM
It's not just Jenny. The CIA gets some of the credit.
 
2014-01-22 11:39:29 AM
The interactive map is useless without statistics on lockjaw and night vision.
 
2014-01-22 11:43:33 AM

AGremlin: The interactive map is useless without statistics on lockjaw and night vision.


Get them dip-tet boosters.
 
2014-01-22 11:45:03 AM
The only thing that stops the anti-vaccination crowd is very publicized sick and dead kids, and even then, you still have large groups of kids that never got vaccinated getting sick as teens.
 
2014-01-22 11:48:46 AM
Yeah, like I'm gonna believe a map from the Council on Foreign Relations.  Might as well stamp it with a big eye in the pyramid.
 
2014-01-22 11:50:39 AM

Pocket Ninja: It's important that this sort of information be shared and widely dispersed, but it needs to be done right by the people who are doing it. This is a poor effort.


Is it a misrepresentation? Sure. It's a white lie, if you will.  Remember when your parents led you to believe in Santa Claus?  Well, they did that to give you a happy childhood and allow them to see the joy on your face Christmas morning while they could anonymously bolster the belief you had of mana coming from the heavens on the day you celebrate the birth of Jesus.  But the truth was always there.  Christmas is Jesus' birthday, and those presents did appear under the tree.  Your parents loved you and you were happy.

What you're doing here, sir, is acting like the jaded big sister who wants to steal joy from the loved, and protected little brother--a little brother who does not yet know that the myth that his the very fabric of his world is even remotely a falsehood.  You seek to destroy all that is good by pointing out minor flaws in the narrative.

The CFR has been that loving, and protecting, and providing parent all along.  They are only presenting the truth the way that our child-like minds can understand.  Jenny McCarthy is the big sister, and you, sir, are acting as her agent of gloom to disrupt the love being showered upon us.  How dare you, sir, tear down the truth by casting aspersions on the perspective being lovingly offered by those who care for us most.

I pray that others can hold on to their faith, as I do, and see the benevolent motivations which highlight the broader TRUTH we so need and deserve.
 
2014-01-22 11:51:40 AM

Pocket Ninja: It's important that this sort of information be shared and widely dispersed, but it needs to be done right by the people who are doing it. This is a poor effort.


Wow you also do sincere well.  I was put off by the scaling errors, too, but the rage that rises within me on this topic still makes me happy that at least there is getting to be a more visible grass-roots "pro-vax" campaign.  You know, besides the ones drilled in by every pediatrician in the country.
 
2014-01-22 11:54:41 AM

factoryconnection: Pocket Ninja: It's important that this sort of information be shared and widely dispersed, but it needs to be done right by the people who are doing it. This is a poor effort.

Wow you also do sincere well.  I was put off by the scaling errors, too, but the rage that rises within me on this topic still makes me happy that at least there is getting to be a more visible grass-roots "pro-vax" campaign.  You know, besides the ones drilled in by every pediatrician in the country.


Mercola and Natural News apparently have better PR departments than the CDC.
 
2014-01-22 11:55:57 AM
Is she draped over the map? Preferably during her jet black hair days??


then I ain't interested
 
2014-01-22 11:59:53 AM

BKITU: Note that Madagascar is untouched.


HA!  Didn't notice that.
 
2014-01-22 12:03:24 PM

meat0918: Mercola and Natural News apparently have better PR departments than the CDC.


They work in the medium of confirmation bias and blissful ignorance and the CDC is all boring facts and technical jargon.  Which one works better in the age of social media?
 
2014-01-22 12:03:37 PM

AGremlin: The interactive map is useless without statistics on lockjaw and night vision.


Really?  I was hoping for statistics on restless leg syndrome and Achy Breaky Heart.
 
2014-01-22 12:07:05 PM

meat0918: The only thing that stops the anti-vaccination crowd is very publicized sick and dead kids, and even then, you still have large groups of kids that never got vaccinated getting sick as teens.


probably the BEST part of some of those kids getting measles is that some of them will be sterilized by it.
darwin always wins
 
2014-01-22 12:11:01 PM

BKITU: Note that Madagascar is untouched.


My sister-in-law is from Madagasi royalty. There's a spot reserved for her in the royal cemetary
 
2014-01-22 12:12:35 PM
factoryconnection:
They work in the medium of confirmation bias and blissful ignorance and the CDC is all boring facts and technical jargon.  Which one works better in the age of social media?

Indeed.  These are the same people who probably think Jahi McMath is still alive as well.  Never mind that 7 doctors confirmed the diagnosis.  Never mind that her brain is goo.  OMG Hang in there, there is hope, her heart is beating!  Same type of thing.  Nevermind that no study has EVER linked vaccines to autism, someone's autistic child once got a vaccine.  QED.
 
2014-01-22 12:12:51 PM

nekom: BKITU: Note that Madagascar is untouched.

HA!  Didn't notice that.


web.mit.edu
 
2014-01-22 12:15:18 PM
Wow she really gets around...

She has spread STDs to all those countries?
 
2014-01-22 12:16:12 PM

Crewmannumber6: BKITU: Note that Madagascar is untouched.

My sister-in-law is from Madagasi royalty. There's a spot reserved for her in the royal cemetary


If she ever needs help getting large sums of money out of the country safely, EIP
 
2014-01-22 12:18:06 PM
The devastating results of Jenny McCarthy's reign of terror in my bedroom in the early 1990s, in one photo

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-22 12:18:19 PM
Easy solution. Just have a bunch of kids go cough on Jenny's kids. She'll change her mind quick.
 
2014-01-22 12:18:31 PM

meat0918: Mercola and Natural News apparently have better PR departments than the CDC.


In general, scientists make really, really shiatty PR people.
 
2014-01-22 12:18:48 PM
 
2014-01-22 12:19:38 PM
The Comments section goes from zero to derp in .5 seconds.
 
2014-01-22 12:21:24 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Easy solution. Just have a bunch of kids go cough on Jenny's kids. She'll change her mind quick.


Ha.  You think they care about their kids.  Like all conspiracy theorists, they're driven by their own ego, and lack of familiarity with the actual consequences of what they're arguing, having never seen a world where 10% of children die before 18.
 
2014-01-22 12:21:50 PM
I know this may come as a shock to many, but Jenny McCarthy is dumb as a stump and was never really that hot to begin with.
 
2014-01-22 12:22:39 PM
People would take her serious if she went topless.
 
2014-01-22 12:24:22 PM
img.fark.net

I can't even begin to count how many times tits have made me
make poor decisions.
 
2014-01-22 12:24:56 PM

Skarekrough: The Comments section goes from zero to derp in .5 seconds.


It's a wonderful case where derp is provably killing people, and people double down.  Climate change is likely to kill people in the future, so the derp is annoying there, but these are people who are like "I don't believe it, I'm not in favor of killing kids, just because I'm in favor of something that kills kids"
 
2014-01-22 12:25:35 PM
Doh!
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6001a4.htm?s_cid=mm6001a4 _w;
summary:
CDC data shows 84 percent of children under the age of 3 have received at least FOUR DTaP shots-which is the acellular pertussis vaccine that was approved in the United States in 1996-yet, despite this high vaccination rate, whooping cough still keeps circulating among both the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
More likely than not, the vaccine provides very little if any protection, and this was evidenced very clearly in a study published in Clinical Infectious Diseases.
Researchers reviewed data on every patient who tested positive for pertussis between March and October 2010 at the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in San Rafael, California.
Out of these 132 patients:
81 percent were fully up to date on the whooping cough vaccine
8 percent had never been vaccinated
11 percent had received at least one shot, but not the entire recommended series


These guys say we don't vaccinate
enough:http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/03/13/cid.ci s287;

But whatever you believe..it isn't the nonvaccinated population which is causing this to spread. The research seems to suggest that the vaccine just isn't effective as it is applied right now. (dose and schedule)
 
2014-01-22 12:26:17 PM

doyner: Pocket Ninja: It's important that this sort of information be shared and widely dispersed, but it needs to be done right by the people who are doing it. This is a poor effort.

Is it a misrepresentation? Sure. It's a white lie, if you will.  Remember when your parents led you to believe in Santa Claus?  Well, they did that to give you a happy childhood and allow them to see the joy on your face Christmas morning while they could anonymously bolster the belief you had of mana coming from the heavens on the day you celebrate the birth of Jesus.  But the truth was always there.  Christmas is Jesus' birthday, and those presents did appear under the tree.  Your parents loved you and you were happy.

What you're doing here, sir, is acting like the jaded big sister who wants to steal joy from the loved, and protected little brother--a little brother who does not yet know that the myth that his the very fabric of his world is even remotely a falsehood.  You seek to destroy all that is good by pointing out minor flaws in the narrative.

The CFR has been that loving, and protecting, and providing parent all along.  They are only presenting the truth the way that our child-like minds can understand.  Jenny McCarthy is the big sister, and you, sir, are acting as her agent of gloom to disrupt the love being showered upon us.  How dare you, sir, tear down the truth by casting aspersions on the perspective being lovingly offered by those who care for us most.

I pray that others can hold on to their faith, as I do, and see the benevolent motivations which highlight the broader TRUTH we so need and deserve.


I'm nor even sure WHO the hell you are trolling. The vaxers or the anti-vaxers. So I'm not sure if that makes it a good troll or a bad one. Well done I think.

Quite frankly, anyone who advocates for anti-vax should feel DIRECTLY responsibly for the deaths and injuries to these children. It is YOUR stupid non-scientific belief that has caused these children to die. Plain and simple.
 
2014-01-22 12:27:06 PM
sigh.

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-01-22 12:28:04 PM

stinkyfishy: Doh!
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6001a4.htm?s_cid=mm6001a4 _w;
summary:
CDC data shows 84 percent of children under the age of 3 have received at least FOUR DTaP shots-which is the acellular pertussis vaccine that was approved in the United States in 1996-yet, despite this high vaccination rate, whooping cough still keeps circulating among both the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
More likely than not, the vaccine provides very little if any protection, and this was evidenced very clearly in a study published in Clinical Infectious Diseases.
Researchers reviewed data on every patient who tested positive for pertussis between March and October 2010 at the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in San Rafael, California.
Out of these 132 patients:
81 percent were fully up to date on the whooping cough vaccine
8 percent had never been vaccinated
11 percent had received at least one shot, but not the entire recommended series

These guys say we don't vaccinate
enough:http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/03/13/cid.ci s287;

But whatever you believe..it isn't the nonvaccinated population which is causing this to spread. The research seems to suggest that the vaccine just isn't effective as it is applied right now. (dose and schedule)



Unvaccinated children serve as spectacular viral incubators while the virus mutates, figuring out how to evade the immune systems of vaccinated children.
 
2014-01-22 12:28:53 PM

nekom: ZAZ: Do read the article, not only the graph. The African red smear is because it sucks to live in a poor, tropical country. It's hard to get vaccines to people who can't even get clean water.

This.  Not that it isn't a problem here, IT IS, but much of the problem in Africa isn't that they don't want to vaccinate their children but that they don't even have access to the vaccines.  They are two separate issues that need to be tackled in different ways.


True, but think of this way.  The anti-vax folks are clearly motivated in the topic of vaccinations.  Had they used their motivation for good, perhaps the African situation could enjoy progress.  As opposed, to say, me....who beyond otherwise responsibly getting my kids vaccinated as recommended, isn't out there trying to sway large groups of people to support or get access to vaccinations.
 
2014-01-22 12:29:51 PM
I'm going to need more pictures of her in her prime in order to properly calibrate my outrage.
 
2014-01-22 12:31:07 PM

AGremlin: The interactive map is useless without statistics on lockjaw and night vision.


d1w7nqlfxfj094.cloudfront.net
 
2014-01-22 12:31:55 PM

stinkyfishy: But whatever you believe..it isn't the nonvaccinated population which is causing this to spread. The research seems to suggest that the vaccine just isn't effective as it is applied right now. (dose and schedule)


Any vaccine is not 100% effective.  Suppose it is 95% effective.  Further, suppose that 81% of your population is vaccinated.  Then (making a number of simplifications) the susceptible population would be: 0.19 + 0.81*0.05 = 23%.  If the entire population were vaccinated, then the susceptible population would be only 5%.

...so yes, the non-vaccinated population makes a *big* difference -- it increases the number of susceptible people by about 4x-5x in this example.  That's a lot more people who can spread the virus among themselves and keep it alive.  If the population of susceptible people is small enough, then the virus will have nowhere to spread to and it will die out within that population.  Even the susceptible people would remain healthy.
 
2014-01-22 12:32:44 PM

toraque: AGremlin: The interactive map is useless without statistics on lockjaw and night vision.

Really?  I was hoping for statistics on restless leg syndrome and Achy Breaky Heart.


What about Rockin' Pneumonia and the Boogie Woogie Flu?
 
2014-01-22 12:33:06 PM
I don't think it's fair that every time someone talks about the anti-vaccination movement, that Jenny McCarthy is Singled Out.
 
2014-01-22 12:34:05 PM

FarkingReading: The devastating results of Jenny McCarthy's reign of terror in my bedroom in the early 1990s, in one photo

[img.fark.net image 215x235]


I preferred Jennifer LeRoy and Nicole Wood that year.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-22 12:35:04 PM
After paying more attention I understand the color difference between Old World and New.

Wakefield stirred up fear about MMR vaccine in particular -- measles, mumps, rubella. He was influential in Europe, and that's why Europe is red with measles.

McCarthy is not so specific in her fear and has more influence in America. She is less able to depress measles vaccination rates. The chart makers had to hunt for another scary disease to plot.
 
2014-01-22 12:35:13 PM

FarkingReading: The devastating results of Jenny McCarthy's reign of terror in my bedroom in the early 1990s, in one photo

[img.fark.net image 215x235]


I was going to make a reference to the number of kittens' deaths for which she's responsible, but I'm glad someone already covered that angle.
 
2014-01-22 12:36:38 PM

ZAZ: Do read the article, not only the graph. The African red smear is because it sucks to live in a poor, tropical country. It's hard to get vaccines to people who can't even get clean water.

The anti-vaccination movement there, and there is a little, is not derived from Wakefield and McCarthy. It is cultural or the result of groups trying to be anti-Western for the sake of being anti-Western. There is still a little polio in Africa and Southwest Asia. The polio vaccine is not the one accused of causing autism. Just this week some polio vaccine security guards got blown up by militants. (Or were they shot? Same result.)

In the rich parts of the world, I see a difference in color between Europe and America. That suggests to me that refusing to take a vaccine that protects against both colors is not the sole problem.


Don't forget the results of a short-sighted monster using aid workers to help the CIA try and track down certain a "most wanted" person. If your enemy says "we aren't so sure about your aid workers because they might be spies" and then you actually use the aid workers as spies, that might set vaccination efforts back a bit.
 
2014-01-22 12:37:15 PM
I think people give Ms McCarthy way too much credit. Yeah she's a dummy with a microphone but that's all.
 
2014-01-22 12:37:23 PM

stinkyfishy: summary:


None of the shiat you're spouting is in the citation you provided. Die in a fire, you piece of shiat shill.
 
2014-01-22 12:37:27 PM
tylerdurden217: I don't think it's fair that every time someone talks about the anti-vaccination movement, that Jenny McCarthy is Singled Out fingered.

/oh jeez...i gotta go...
/this is what is wrong with science by shibboleth. repeating something endlessly doesn't make it right and only kills innocents.
 
2014-01-22 12:37:28 PM
Well, the day has finally arrived. Out of the whole thing, the most annoying part is now "Vaccination autism LOLJENNYMCCARTHY I AM SO FUNNY".

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say the vaccine guys paid her to say stupid shiat so everyone would say "If you don't get every vaccination, you must be just like that retarded pair of tits, isn't she dumb, just a stupid mouthy whore with a messed up kid." This paves the way for them to turn us all into mutants with their new vaccine for crotch itch. "We all gotta get this shot or humanity will never eradicate jock sadness."

On one hand we have people refusing every vaccine because it is going to get them, on the other hand we have people who will get every vaccine they are told to get without question. So we got scared livestock running off the cliff and adoring livestock who will happily march right into the slaughterhouse. Both think they are so much smarter than the other crew. Both are very emotional about the whole thing.
 
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