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(Huffington Post)   President of Yale University: "The challenge is that college education costs a lot" and sometimes you're stuck with a worthless Harvard degree at the end of it all   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 91
    More: Obvious, Salovey, Harvard, higher educations, HuffPost Live at Davos, World Economic Forum, Duke University School of Medicine, multivitamins, David Agus  
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3176 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jan 2014 at 10:03 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-22 10:07:56 AM  
$200 grand for something worth $5.34 in overdue books fees at the library
 
2014-01-22 10:08:38 AM  
And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.
 
2014-01-22 10:10:27 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-22 10:11:43 AM  

Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing?


States fixing their budgets by giving less and less tax dollars to the Universities.
 
2014-01-22 10:11:54 AM  

Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.


The only way to gain exclusivity is to continually raise prices.  The only way to justify raising prices is to have exclusivity.
 
2014-01-22 10:12:12 AM  

Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.


The reason is that when they raise prices, various governments respond with more subsidies, loans, grants, and whatnots.  There isn't much in the way of downward pressure on prices.
 
2014-01-22 10:15:00 AM  
What is 200k to the 1%?
They spend that on automobiles.

They just price smart poor kids out of making ivy league contacts.
 
2014-01-22 10:15:46 AM  

Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.


If you can charge whatever you want for something and someone will still buy it, then you're going to charge whatever you can until people stop buying it. They have zero incentive to lower their prices as long as there is a profit. Supply and demand is a biatch.
 
2014-01-22 10:15:55 AM  

hasty ambush: [25.media.tumblr.com image 620x1060]


I can't stop thinking about doing dirty things to that dirty hippie.  I don't know why an ill-fitting bra would turn me on.
 
2014-01-22 10:17:18 AM  
Sir, you have the boorish manners of a Yalie.
 
2014-01-22 10:17:46 AM  
"I think we are living in a time where states have not been able to invest in higher education the way they once did."

Taxes are are socialism.

But, when you're building luxury suites, dorms, and stadiums while paying presidents and coaches exorbitant salaries on the taxpayer's dime people have a right to be angry.

/There's plenty of blame to go around.
 
2014-01-22 10:18:06 AM  
Can't find the current president's data, but according to google, Yale's last president's salary was 1.63 Million a year. That might have something to do with it.
 
2014-01-22 10:18:32 AM  
Actually he said something far less sensible. He said that he's troubled that the average student paying in-state tuition at a state university pays more than does a student attending Yale.

Tuition, room, board and expenses at Yale:
$58,600

57% of students receive financial aid, with an average value of $35,500.
(0.43*58,600)+(0.57*23,100)=38,400

so the average Yalie pays $38,400 to go to Yale, after financial aid is reflected.
http://admissions.yale.edu/faq/what-current-tuition-yale

Tuition, room, board and expenses at University of Missouri:
$22,800
http://admissions.missouri.edu/costs-and-aid/costs/index.php
and that's before taking financial aid into account.

I don't think he needs to trouble himself...
 
2014-01-22 10:21:50 AM  

proteus_b: Actually he said something far less sensible. He said that he's troubled that the average student paying in-state tuition at a state university pays more than does a student attending Yale.

Tuition, room, board and expenses at Yale:
$58,600

57% of students receive financial aid, with an average value of $35,500.
(0.43*58,600)+(0.57*23,100)=38,400

so the average Yalie pays $38,400 to go to Yale, after financial aid is reflected.
http://admissions.yale.edu/faq/what-current-tuition-yale

Tuition, room, board and expenses at University of Missouri:
$22,800
http://admissions.missouri.edu/costs-and-aid/costs/index.php
and that's before taking financial aid into account.

I don't think he needs to trouble himself...


I learned three things in Missouri at a little place outside of Joplin called the Double Deuce.
 
2014-01-22 10:21:57 AM  
lennavan: "States fixing their budgets by giving less and less tax dollars to the Universities."

So... their budget problems go back to at least 1988 and were uncorrelated to economic conditions?
I think you'd have a hard time showing that the delta between current and historical funding levels even roughly matches the delta between current and his historical tuitions.

/ http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/13/news/economy/college_tuition_middle_cl ass/
 
2014-01-22 10:22:34 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Sir, you have the boorish manners of a Yalie.


Harvardling and Yalie in the men's room. The Yalie just walks out after taking a leak. The Harvardling calls to him to stop. "At Harvard," he says unctuously, "we are taught to wash our hands after a bathroom break."

Yalie turns to leave but pauses to reply, "At Yale, we're taught not to pee on our hands."

[Old jokes are the best. You've heard that one 10 times? 20? More than 50?]
 
2014-01-22 10:22:35 AM  
TWO autoplay videos in the same article, both trying to play at the same time?? WTF.
 
2014-01-22 10:23:34 AM  
Even through the intertubes, I can feel his deep concern.
 
2014-01-22 10:25:09 AM  
Meet Kelli Space. She went to Northeastern University to get a degree in sociology. And she graduated in $200,000 of student loan debt.

Link

Laquinda Settles, New York Institute of Technology a degree in Communication Arts $80K

Aleesha Nash, New York University, Master's degree in Speech and Interpersonal Communications
$104K


 
2014-01-22 10:26:46 AM  
This is why kids saddled with debt have to take whatever job they can get, leading to situations akin to indentured servitude.
 
2014-01-22 10:29:11 AM  

lennavan: Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing?

States fixing their budgets by giving less

fewer and less fewer tax dollars to the Universities.

That and firing all the English professors.
 
2014-01-22 10:29:47 AM  

ringersol: lennavan: "States fixing their budgets by giving less and less tax dollars to the Universities."

So... their budget problems go back to at least 1988 and were uncorrelated to economic conditions?
I think you'd have a hard time showing that the delta between current and historical funding levels even roughly matches the delta between current and his historical tuitions.

/ http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/13/news/economy/college_tuition_middle_cl ass/


Dwindling appropriations aren't the only reason tuition costs are rising, but they're the primary driving force. The graph below, also from the college board, plots state changes in state spending on higher-ed (in blue) against changes in tuition (in orange). There's a pretty clear trend: When budgets get stingier, costs for students go up.


cdn.theatlantic.com

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-its-cheaper- to -go-to-harvard-than-a-california-state-school/254073/
 
2014-01-22 10:31:11 AM  

Astorix: This is why kids saddled with debt have to take whatever job they can get, leading to situations akin to indentured servitude.


You say that like it's a bad thing.

Loading up our young people with crushing debt is good for corporate profits, which is good for America.
 
2014-01-22 10:31:31 AM  
Link

About 48 percent of employed U.S. college graduates are in jobs that the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) suggests requires less than a four-year college education.Eleven percent of employed college graduates are in occupations requiring more than a high-school diploma but less than a bachelor's, and 37 percent are in occupations requiring no more than a high-school diploma;

The proportion of overeducated workers in occupations appears to have grown substantially; in 1970, fewer than one percent of taxi drivers and two percent of firefighters had college degrees, while now more than 15 percent do in both jobs;

About five million college graduates are in jobs the BLS says require less than a high-school education;
Comparing average college and high-school earnings is highly misleading as a guide for vocational success, given high college-dropout rates and the fact that overproduction of college graduates lowers recent graduate earnings relative to those graduating earlier;

Not all colleges are equal: Typical graduates of elite private schools make more than graduates of flagship state universities, but those graduates do much better than those attending relatively non-selective institutions;

Not all majors are equal: Engineering and economics graduates, for example, typically earn almost double what social work and education graduates receive by mid-career;

Past and projected future growth in college enrollments and the number of graduates exceeds the actual or projected growth in high-skilled jobs, explaining the development of the underemployment problem and its probable worsening in future years;

Rising college costs and perceived declines in economic benefits may well lead to declining enrollments and market share for traditional schools and the development of new methods of certifying occupation competence.
 
2014-01-22 10:32:32 AM  

hasty ambush: Meet Kelli Space. She went to Northeastern University to get a degree in sociology. And she graduated in $200,000 of student loan debt.

Link

Laquinda Settles, New York Institute of Technology a degree in Communication Arts $80K

Aleesha Nash, New York University, Master's degree in Speech and Interpersonal Communications
$104K




hasty ambush: Meet Kelli Space. She went to Northeastern University to get a degree in sociology. And she graduated in $200,000 of student loan debt.

Link

Laquinda Settles, New York Institute of Technology a degree in Communication Arts $80K

Aleesha Nash, New York University, Master's degree in Speech and Interpersonal Communications
$104K




Fireclown, BS Biological Sciences, MBA, sporadic classes since.

$0 debt.
 
2014-01-22 10:32:33 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: "I think we are living in a time where states have not been able to invest in higher education the way they once did."

Taxes are are socialism.

But, when you're building luxury suites, dorms, and stadiums while paying presidents and coaches exorbitant salaries on the taxpayer's dime people have a right to be angry.

/There's plenty of blame to go around.


Actually, football programs RAISE money for colleges overall.  As in: the actual learning institution is making money.  It's the best funding source colleges have, otherwise schools wouldn't bother running semi-pro football teams.
 
2014-01-22 10:35:30 AM  

lennavan: Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing?

States fixing their budgets by giving less and less tax dollars to the Universities.


HR departments requiring 4 year degrees for jobs that you should be able to get after graduating high school.

HR departments: the biggest driver of pointless degree inflation in America.

Second is the fact that we view trades as lesser work nowadays. Laugh, but anyone who makes it to master any trade is probably as smart as that doctor performing surgery.

/journeyman mason and electrician
//liked computers more
 
2014-01-22 10:35:33 AM  
Just go to a state school and be smart and work hard and be the boss of people with ivy league degrees.  Tell them you paid $40,000 for your education and now you make more than them, so not only do you make more than them, your school is paid off so while all of their money goes toward loan interest while your money goes to fun things.  And though you shouldn't tell them, feel a softness in your heart while thinking about how hard they have to work while you're Farking away.  It's easy!  Come to my seminaaa.
 
2014-01-22 10:37:00 AM  

Astorix: This is why kids saddled with debt have to take whatever job they can get, leading to situations akin to indentured servitude.


Well maybe they chose poorly. Just because you get a degree in Holistic Interpretive Dance and the debt to go with it does not mean the world owes you a well paying job.
 
2014-01-22 10:38:09 AM  
This young lady I worked with started working here to pay off her school debt, her dad paid it off for her so she went back to school to finish her degree in dance and public speaking.
 
2014-01-22 10:38:11 AM  

Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.


Yep. Build build build. Charge charge charge.

They put up a $180 million or whatever shopping center at Hydraulic & 29 in a period of 6 months, but they can't renovate a campus building in 5 years for less than $90 million?
 
2014-01-22 10:39:54 AM  
"Why not both?"

littlegreenfootballs.com
 
2014-01-22 10:40:43 AM  
Nice one Yale prez...I went to a small private school a stone's throw from Yale and even had some Yale instructors in some of my courses.  They were some of the worst instructors I ever had.  Married (and divorced) a Yale grad.  My dad was laid off by them.  At least my old landlord tried to redeem Yale by being a pretty good guy, but I fear that is more the exception and not the rule.

So needless to say, Yale doesn't impress me at all.  It's all about $$ and connections.

/rant over
 
2014-01-22 10:41:39 AM  

GodComplex: Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.

If you can charge whatever you want for something and someone will still buy it, then you're going to charge whatever you can until people stop buying it. They have zero incentive to lower their prices as long as there is a profit. Supply and demand is a biatch.


It's even worse than that.  Because of the structure of our financing system (loans and grants), the upfront cost for students is often zero, meaning that they're not making decisions based on price.  Take and 18-year-old with no sense of personal finance (which is basically every 18-year-old) and offer them a choice between a college offering dorm living, a central cafeteria, and a 30-year-old gym or a college offering student apartments, eating options (caf or restaurants) in every apartment building, and a brand new gym.  Which do you think they'll choose?  The nice one, obviously, and they won't even notice or care that it will cost $2,000/semester more than the other school.

In other words, because of the financing structure, colleges are actually incentivized to spend MORE money on amenities, increasing the cost without increasing the value of the education.
 
2014-01-22 10:43:36 AM  

meddleRPI: Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.

Yep. Build build build. Charge charge charge.

They put up a $180 million or whatever shopping center at Hydraulic & 29 in a period of 6 months, but they can't renovate a campus building in 5 years for less than $90 million?


Hmmm maybe one is private sector and the other is government
 
2014-01-22 10:43:55 AM  

proteus_b: Actually he said something far less sensible. He said that he's troubled that the average student paying in-state tuition at a state university pays more than does a student attending Yale.

Tuition, room, board and expenses at Yale:
$58,600

57% of students receive financial aid, with an average value of $35,500.
(0.43*58,600)+(0.57*23,100)=38,400

so the average Yalie pays $38,400 to go to Yale, after financial aid is reflected.
http://admissions.yale.edu/faq/what-current-tuition-yale

Tuition, room, board and expenses at University of Missouri:
$22,800
http://admissions.missouri.edu/costs-and-aid/costs/index.php
and that's before taking financial aid into account.

I don't think he needs to trouble himself...


Plus the fact that much of the financial aid needs to be paid back at some point.

In my opinion, there has to be a reckoning at some point. Eventually enough people will realize a 4-year bachelors at Ivy U isn't worth $400k(is this the max?) of debt
 
2014-01-22 10:45:34 AM  

mike_d85: The Irresponsible Captain: "I think we are living in a time where states have not been able to invest in higher education the way they once did."

Taxes are are socialism.

But, when you're building luxury suites, dorms, and stadiums while paying presidents and coaches exorbitant salaries on the taxpayer's dime people have a right to be angry.

/There's plenty of blame to go around.

Actually, football programs RAISE money for colleges overall.  As in: the actual learning institution is making money.  It's the best funding source colleges have, otherwise schools wouldn't bother running semi-pro football teams.


I would like to see where that money actually goes.
I'd wager a 5 spot that it goes directly back into "The Program" and very little of it benefits the academic facilities.
However I would guess that having a bowl winning team helps to increase popularity amoung non athletic students.

Go Spartans!
 
2014-01-22 10:47:47 AM  

inglixthemad:
HR departments requiring 4 year degrees for jobs that you should be able to get after graduating high school.

HR departments: the biggest driver of pointless degree inflation in America.


I think that's a really good point, I just don't think it's a big factor in tuition prices.  It goes all the way up the degree ladder too.  I have a friend with a PhD and three years post-doctoral experience doing a job that I have taught high school kids to do.  She's doing the equivalent of science nerd grunt work.  They demand a PhD + experience because they can.

inglixthemad: Second is the fact that we view trades as lesser work nowadays. Laugh, but anyone who makes it to master any trade is probably as smart as that doctor performing surgery.


I'm not one of those people but I completely agree with you.  I had a discussion with a guy once (he was a financial consultant) about how his job was way more important than a plumber - he adds value to a company, what value does a plumber add?  I told him I didn't know and I'd think about it while I went to take a piss.
 
2014-01-22 10:48:20 AM  

fireclown: Fano: And is there any reason the cost keeps skyrocketing? at UVa I could say that the pharoahs of old had nothing on college presidents, always building something new whether it was needed or not.

The reason is that when they raise prices, various governments respond with more subsidies, loans, grants, and whatnots.  There isn't much in the way of downward pressure on prices.


I'm calling BS, most states have seriously curtailed college funding since the crash of 2008.
 
2014-01-22 10:49:10 AM  

yakmans_dad: Rapmaster2000: Sir, you have the boorish manners of a Yalie.

Harvardling and Yalie in the men's room. The Yalie just walks out after taking a leak. The Harvardling calls to him to stop. "At Harvard," he says unctuously, "we are taught to wash our hands after a bathroom break."

Yalie turns to leave but pauses to reply, "At Yale, we're taught not to pee on our hands."

[Old jokes are the best. You've heard that one 10 times? 20? More than 50?]


The Harvard/Stanford/Columbia version is better
 
2014-01-22 10:50:42 AM  
Eli entices erstwhile eccentrics, even enhancing erroneous eggheads, ergo Eli educates enormous egos
 
2014-01-22 10:51:04 AM  
@mike_d85

Actually only 10% of colleges benefit from high powered football programs.
45% break even
and 45% are actually costing the college money.

http://www.ohio.com/editorial/richard-vedder-price-of-a-touchdown-a- co st-benefit-analysis-1.456658
http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/blog/2012/08/which-college-foo tb all-teams-get-the.html
 
2014-01-22 10:56:10 AM  
Who says those ivory tower types don't know business?

1.  Convince Americans that every child must have a college degree (and make sure you offer plenty of majors in which any moron can get one).

2.  Jack the price of college education out of sight.

3.  Profit.
 
2014-01-22 10:56:52 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: In my opinion, there has to be a reckoning at some point. Eventually enough people will realize a 4-year bachelors at Ivy U isn't worth $400k(is this the max?) of debt


The reckoning is currently happening in the Ivy leagues and began many years ago.  Harvard decided tuition dollars were a negligible source of income for them, so they have spectacular financial aid.

If your parents make $65,000 a year or less, you attend completely free.
If your parents are making $150,000 a year, you qualify for a $40,000 a year scholarship.
If your parents are making $250,000 a year, you still qualify for a small scholarship.

Harvard considers $250,000 a year or less financial hardship.  Harvard went first years ago, now the other Ivy league schools are following suit so they can still try to compete.
 
2014-01-22 10:58:52 AM  
Why are we having difficulty? Because we don't view an educated public as a common good.
 
2014-01-22 10:58:55 AM  
Yale has incredible on-line courses for FREE!

It's not the complete experience. You'll need to mug yourself on the way to class in your pretend walk through New Haven..
 
2014-01-22 11:00:20 AM  

lennavan: HaywoodJablonski: In my opinion, there has to be a reckoning at some point. Eventually enough people will realize a 4-year bachelors at Ivy U isn't worth $400k(is this the max?) of debt

The reckoning is currently happening in the Ivy leagues and began many years ago.  Harvard decided tuition dollars were a negligible source of income for them, so they have spectacular financial aid.

If your parents make $65,000 a year or less, you attend completely free.
If your parents are making $150,000 a year, you qualify for a $40,000 a year scholarship.
If your parents are making $250,000 a year, you still qualify for a small scholarship.

Harvard considers $250,000 a year or less financial hardship.  Harvard went first years ago, now the other Ivy league schools are following suit so they can still try to compete.


That's great that Harvard does that. But many other schools need to do the same for there to be a noticeable push down on actual costs/loans for the students.
 
2014-01-22 11:01:23 AM  
Curious

Has anyone else here had 'vet' recent college grad resumes for job openings? I did it a few times (we used a sorting system where you went through the pile and gave them a numerical rating is categories. Top scorers were asked in for interviews)

If I looked at your courses and you had lots of the 'studies' courses or even worse a major in something like that then you're off to the bottom of the pile -- no interview for you.

// And yes we would collect the doozies and pass them around to people for laughs
 
2014-01-22 11:05:23 AM  

HaywoodJablonski: lennavan: HaywoodJablonski: In my opinion, there has to be a reckoning at some point. Eventually enough people will realize a 4-year bachelors at Ivy U isn't worth $400k(is this the max?) of debt

The reckoning is currently happening in the Ivy leagues and began many years ago.  Harvard decided tuition dollars were a negligible source of income for them, so they have spectacular financial aid.

If your parents make $65,000 a year or less, you attend completely free.
If your parents are making $150,000 a year, you qualify for a $40,000 a year scholarship.
If your parents are making $250,000 a year, you still qualify for a small scholarship.

Harvard considers $250,000 a year or less financial hardship.  Harvard went first years ago, now the other Ivy league schools are following suit so they can still try to compete.

That's great that Harvard does that. But many other schools need to do the same for there to be a noticeable push down on actual costs/loans for the students.


Your post was about Ivy League schools.  I told you what the Ivy League schools are doing.  See for instance Harvard, or this article about Yale University or the president of Yale arguing the exact same thing you are.  I think you have a great point but Ivy league schools are about the only example where you're wrong, so I have no idea why you'd shiat all over them.  I was guessing it was just because you didn't know.  Now you know.  I don't know what more you want the Ivy leagues schools to do.
 
2014-01-22 11:05:44 AM  

CujoQuarrel: Curious

Has anyone else here had 'vet' recent college grad resumes for job openings? I did it a few times (we used a sorting system where you went through the pile and gave them a numerical rating is categories. Top scorers were asked in for interviews)

If I looked at your courses and you had lots of the 'studies' courses or even worse a major in something like that then you're off to the bottom of the pile -- no interview for you.

// And yes we would collect the doozies and pass them around to people for laughs


I do a lot of recruiting/hiring for my job and do pretty much the same thing.

I take it a step further and promote those who worked 10-20 hours a week while taking classes and also those whose resume's are very well put together. If you have any typos or misspelled words, that's a big red flag.

Finally, even though I'm an Ivy grad, I prefer to hire strong candidates from state schools since their work ethic and lack of sense of entitlement usually translate into better employees and (yes) future leaders
 
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