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(NPR)   New study shows that waves of over-privileged white kids taking over old neighborhoods, driving up prices, and pushing out the former non-white residents may actually be a good thing. Well, for the privileged white kids, anyway   (npr.org) divider line 31
    More: Obvious, privilege of the white, Tompkins Square Park, social consciousness, gentrification  
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4584 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jan 2014 at 8:59 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-22 09:04:41 AM
9 votes:
so, increased land values, improved small business opportunities... and you're mad about this why again?

maybe if your "pride in your community" extended beyond covering everything in gang graffiti and violence against outsiders, you wouldn't need to be displaced in the name of progress.
2014-01-22 09:04:18 AM
5 votes:
The only people who biatch about gentrification are the gentrifiers who moved in last year and are upset about the gentrifiers moving in this year.
2014-01-22 09:13:45 AM
4 votes:
White people coming = gentrification.
White people leaving = white flight.

Women and minorities hardest hit, as always.
2014-01-22 09:13:19 AM
4 votes:
It was actually a close and personal look at gentrification that turned me into a Lib in the first place.  Now, I'm somewhat commiserate with it, as I eat at a lot of restaurants and shop at a lot of stores in areas that have been rebuilt.

I have to agree with the article.  The areas I've seen getting this treatment have always lost residents naturally and have empty buildings sitting around rotting.  As money starts to move in and rebuild, some people are bought out of their homes, certainly, but those homes often sell for higher values than they otherwise would have and, except for rental residents, those moves are mutual.

The rental residents, however, do need to be protected.  I'm fortunate to live in Tulsa in that respect - a wealthy philanthropist (who just died) led the charge for getting a lot of these areas rebuilt, and he also poured money into areas that remain low-income, and helped inspire others to do the same.  I drove into a low-income neighborhood the other day to find a giant duplex complex, all the homes being brand new builds, and all reserved for low-income residents.  There was probably housing enough for 300 families, and there were signs of other complexes going up.  This right across the highway from one of those gentrified areas.

Moral of the story: As long as we understand what our efforts at gentrification do, and make sure to financially support efforts to provide *good* housing and living areas for the people we displace, everyone wins and we can embiggen the entire city.
2014-01-22 10:58:52 AM
3 votes:
I live in an area of Chicago which is statistically just as safe as the already-gentrified areas but has a bad reputation regardless because of decades of truly horrific mismanagement by the previous alderman.

It's full of SRO housing - single rooms rented by the day or week - housing that barely fits the standard of housing.  Half of the buildings are mismanaged and left to rot.  Some of the more notorious ones are comparable to those crappy Japanese commuter hotels, without the sanitation.

And yet there is such enormous outcry every time one of these festering shiatholes is bought by a developer and turned into reasonable market-rate housing.   Oh no, where will the people who have been squatting in foetid misery for years among bedbugs and feces live now?  How dare the gentrifiers push them out of their homes? (I wish I was being hyperbolic, but some of the video I've seen of the interior of those places when they go in to rehab is absolutely horrifying.)

I live in a hundred year old stone building that was rescued from deterioration and gut-rehabbed during the housing boom. From some of the reactions I get to being a "condo owner" in my area you'd think I was literally Hitler.

I understand that affordable housing is a very serious concern, and it needs to be addressed.  But letting beautiful old buildings literally fall apart so that they can be rented out by slumlords to the desperate is definitely not the answer.

I love my neighborhood.  We have some of the very best ethnic restaurants in the city, great transit and a bright future. I definitely don't want to see people driven out and would love to see more affordable, reasonable and safe housing.   But the number of people who want to keep it mired in the unsavory past always shocks the hell out of me.
2014-01-22 09:36:47 AM
3 votes:

The Southern Logic Company: Tatsuma: I'm really starting to be annoyed by the now constant use of tumblr buzzwords like privileged all over the place.

This.  How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?


About the time 'entitled' became a descriptor for the behavior of any person I don't like.  See also 'hipster'.
2014-01-22 09:35:55 AM
2 votes:

The Southern Logic Company: This. How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?


I don't know it's like I blinked and now that shiat is everywhere. It's like with the rise of tumblr a very small but very vocal segment of SJWs have managed to hijack the discourse while most of us are just confused why the news is starting to push that bullshiat full time.

These are the same people who also dogpile people and ask for them to lose their jobs the second they say something that they disagree with. Not even something extreme or hateful, just something they disagree with.

Two guys crack jokes about dongle at a conference? Clearly they need to be publicly shamed and lose their jobs for doing what everyone everywhere does.
2014-01-22 09:32:24 AM
2 votes:
Complaining that euro-americans bringing civilization back whilst african-americans complain that the neighborhoods that they destroyed and took from euro-americans who rightfully stole it from the native-americans in the first place. blah-blah-blah.
2014-01-22 09:28:54 AM
2 votes:
over-privileged white kids taking over old neighborhoods, driving up prices, and pushing out the former non-white residents
~

Interesting to note if the same thing happens in reverse - non-white residents taking over white neighborhoods - the same racial group are the moral bad guys. This sort of demographic shift is labelled "white flight."

This sorta subtle racism is freaken everywhere. White people are always the Germans.

i42.tinypic.com
2014-01-22 09:17:52 AM
2 votes:
For those of you who cant read more than 2 paragraphs into any story the research (you know, that sciency type stuff) is showing that the benefits do seem to be extended to most people (including 'poor' people) in the gentrifying areas.

Yes you will get the standard anecdotes about a guy who knew a guy who was forced to move under a bridge but between letting it fall down and a few unfortunate outcomes mixed in with generally good things happening I'll take gentrification.

/the alternative is to keep building new shiny things farther and father out into the suburbs... of course rather than being made of things like stone, cement, and oak, the facades are all plastic over plywood which should look like total shiat about 5 seconds after the money leaves the area somewhere down the line.
2014-01-22 09:17:22 AM
2 votes:

GORDON: White people leaving = white flight.


I call it the Cash Dash.

It doesn't matter what color you are, if you can afford it, you get the f*ck out of the ghetto.
2014-01-22 09:13:19 AM
2 votes:

The_Original_Roxtar: so, increased land values, improved small business opportunities... and you're mad about this why again?

maybe if your "pride in your community" extended beyond covering everything in gang graffiti and violence against outsiders, you wouldn't need to be displaced in the name of progress.


But that's their "culture". You're being racist or classist or something when you point out that some subcultures are better than others. So just stop it!

See also: Responsibility for one's own actions.
2014-01-22 07:31:28 PM
1 votes:
Loreweaver: One solution is to put in place nationwide rules that prevent raising rent for existing tenants above the normal inflation rate, and rules that forbid a lease to be terminated if the property changes owners. Obviously, when the lease expires, the tenant would have to negotiate with the new owner, but if the former law is also in effect, the new owner could not raise rent more than 5% over the previous year's rent.

 HAHAHAHAHA. News flash: people buy rental properties to make money. Not as a charity or public service. We could call that the "we made existing rental property worthless and no one will buy them" law. And where are you going to rent when no one owns rental property?
2014-01-22 03:55:16 PM
1 votes:

Loreweaver: Enlightened Liberal: I'm all for gentrification since most people end up winners, except for renters who see their rent increase at a higher rate than their wages.

If you own a rental property and person A is willing and able to pay $2,000 a month and person B can only afford $800 a month, then sorry person B you need to find a new place to live. On the hand, low - income people shouldn't be completely screwed but I'm not sure what an equitable solution would be.

One solution is to put in place nationwide rules that prevent making improvements to rental propertiesraising rent for existing tenants above the normal inflation rate, and rules that forbid a lease to be terminated if the property changes owners. Obviously, when the lease expires, the tenant would have to negotiate with the new owner, but if the former law is also in effect, the new owner could not raise rent more than 5% over the previous year's rent.



That's what you're saying.
2014-01-22 03:41:49 PM
1 votes:

Loreweaver: Because of the change in ownership, our old lease was now null and void,


Where was this at?  Everywhere I've ever lived, the lease goes with the property in a sale and new owners have to honor the existing lease until it comes up for renewal.
2014-01-22 01:18:41 PM
1 votes:

mike_d85: Tatsuma: "cotton ceiling",

What?

I'm not being facetious, I really didn't understand the point of that link.  So... a transgendered lesbian is a woman who has gotten a sex change, but still calls themselves a woman?  Is that what's happening?  Wouldn't that just be buyer's remorse?


It exposes something of a rift in the LBGTQ community going back 40+ years. Even though the 'T' is there, trans* issues are often shunted aside in favor of issues that pertain to the gay community (issues that are almost 100% cisgendered). The issues pertaining more to the trans* community - like the shockingly high amount of police brutality, and the kaleidoscope of social issues (starting with the simple issue of where to poop) - they feel, are ignored in "LBGT" groups.

So that link, assuming I understand (gotta check my white cismale privilege here), is that Redacted Lesbian feels that a lesbian who wouldn't sleep with a woman with boy parts is doing a disservice to the trans* community by thinking (or "has been brainwashed by the gendered, heteronormative society into thinking") that only women - and ALL women - have vaginas. OP is flustered (as am I) since a simple understanding of "lesbian" is "woman in woman's body attracted to women in womens' bodies", which sort of excludes the penis by definition.

Redacted Lesbian finds this offensive, as if someone's sexual preference were a conscious choice one could "undo" the "uncomfortable" parts of.
2014-01-22 10:32:03 AM
1 votes:
When white people left the cities for the suburbs, people complained about white flight, and now that white people are moving back into the cities, people complain about gentrification.
2014-01-22 10:31:03 AM
1 votes:
My experience is that the "overprivledged" white people we are talking about are actually the sons and daughters of the middle class that are just starting out and don't have very much money. By "not much money" I mean sometimes pretty damn poor. They move into these neighborhoods partly because they can afford to rent or buy, while they certainly can't afford the suburbs they came from.

Urban living is also attractive, but any way you cut it you do need to be able to afford the place. Young people moving into crappy areas of town says as much about the declining wages in our country as anything else.
2014-01-22 10:16:51 AM
1 votes:

Big Ramifications: Interesting to note if the same thing happens in reverse - non-white residents taking over white neighborhoods - the same racial group are the moral bad guys. This sort of demographic shift is labelled "white flight."


I think it's worth pointing out that in the famous examples of "white flight" of 50 years ago, the percentage of minority residents in urban areas increased, but the absolute urban populations fell through the floor.

In other words, it's not that more minorities came in and pushed the whites out; it's that the whites moved to the suburbs and no one moved into the city to replace them.
2014-01-22 10:15:10 AM
1 votes:
gentrification: people should live in specific parts of town based on their skin color.

somehow, this is not racist.
2014-01-22 10:07:12 AM
1 votes:
+1 for 'will mae

Another Government Employee: As a middle class white dude in a gentrifying neighborhood, I'm getting a kick.

When I first moved in, my street was a mix of GM redneck and struggling musicians.  Chambodia was threatening to come up the street and get us (nothing wrong with that).  I picked up my house for cheap and I was happy. Close to everything. And a semi decent school district to boot.

Now...I am surrounded by 4000 sq. ft. McMansion's filled with entitled yuppies.  I get calls daily from developers who haven't come up to my price yet.  All the cool funkiness that made the place home is gone. The BOE went insane 10 years ago and is just now coming off probation.  And I am ready to retire.

Financially, I'll make out like a bandit.  But it doesn't mean I have to like it.


+1 for 'will make out like a bandit'. but only if I move out of London when I sell, else I'll just face crazy prices to buy

fortunately im not surrounded by mcmansions, so no desire to sell right now
2014-01-22 09:58:03 AM
1 votes:

Enlightened Liberal: Whoa there, Mr. CIS-gendered, hetero normative, transmisogynist, you need to check your privilege and learn my pronouns.

But really, I'm mostly left leaning but manufactured outrage from these people has become rather annoying. It hasn't made me a Republican, but now I just hate everything.


The whole xir-zhe-them thing is just so farking confusingly ridiculous. It's like a generation that grew up being told how special they are and constantly just took selfies hit 20 and flooded the internet with cries of being taken seriously on their own terms. They are so incredibly unique they need to invent terms that describes them and only them. That's why I love that joke:

What's the difference between someone who's bisexual and someone who's pansexual? The bisexual is attracted to both sexes while the pansexual is attracted to attention.

Because of that shiat and companies thinking that because these people have a loud voice online that they represent the public and they need to cater to them. That's why NPR publishes simultaneously articles blaming white people for gentrification and the next day for white flight. Why you have a controversy over a team named after Native Americans. The name stood for decades, but thank Heavens we had some white liberals to suddenly get offended for minorities who were not in the least bothered by something. How I Met Your Mother makes a kung-fu parody?

i.imgur.com
2014-01-22 09:52:11 AM
1 votes:
My neighborhood has gentrified over the past decade.  Let me tell you, it's an amazing thing to watch the transformation firsthand.

Yes, some people get bought out, but not by force - they just get offered prices that are better than they'd ever seen before and decide it's worthwhile to move. Rents have gone up, and the renter demographic has certainly changed, but I don't think that's a bad thing. None of the renters used to stay more than a few years. Now we have long-term neighbors who work nearby and actually care about the neighborhood.

If you're curious about the neighborhood, look up Brewery Vivant.
2014-01-22 09:47:24 AM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: The Southern Logic Company: This. How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?

I don't know it's like I blinked and now that shiat is everywhere. It's like with the rise of tumblr a very small but very vocal segment of SJWs have managed to hijack the discourse while most of us are just confused why the news is starting to push that bullshiat full time.

These are the same people who also dogpile people and ask for them to lose their jobs the second they say something that they disagree with. Not even something extreme or hateful, just something they disagree with.

Two guys crack jokes about dongle at a conference? Clearly they need to be publicly shamed and lose their jobs for doing what everyone everywhere does.


Whoa there, Mr. CIS-gendered, hetero normative, transmisogynist, you need to check your privilege and learn my pronouns.

But really, I'm mostly left leaning but manufactured outrage from these people has become rather annoying. It hasn't made me a Republican, but now I just hate everything.
2014-01-22 09:39:14 AM
1 votes:
As a middle class white dude in a gentrifying neighborhood, I'm getting a kick.

When I first moved in, my street was a mix of GM redneck and struggling musicians.  Chambodia was threatening to come up the street and get us (nothing wrong with that).  I picked up my house for cheap and I was happy. Close to everything. And a semi decent school district to boot.

Now...I am surrounded by 4000 sq. ft. McMansion's filled with entitled yuppies.  I get calls daily from developers who haven't come up to my price yet.  All the cool funkiness that made the place home is gone. The BOE went insane 10 years ago and is just now coming off probation.  And I am ready to retire.

Financially, I'll make out like a bandit.  But it doesn't mean I have to like it.
2014-01-22 09:33:18 AM
1 votes:

Rapmaster2000: The only people who biatch about gentrification are the gentrifiers who moved in last year and are upset about the gentrifiers moving in this year.


That should be on Brooklyn's crest.
2014-01-22 09:31:05 AM
1 votes:

Tatsuma: I'm really starting to be annoyed by the now constant use of tumblr buzzwords like privileged all over the place.


This.  How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?
2014-01-22 09:30:48 AM
1 votes:
Property developers push to make target commercial neighborhoods look seedier by running down their holdings and also buying out people who have to sell at a loss. It's usually a decade long poker game to see what rube gentrifies first while the pack waits to cash in. Many times a city will hand out tax breaks for the revitalizing of an area of town.
2014-01-22 09:17:20 AM
1 votes:
Central East Austin seen nodding in agreement.  Or would be if they had not all packed up and had to move to North East Austin.

There are still a few holdouts down there, but man not many.
2014-01-22 09:15:44 AM
1 votes:
I'm really starting to be annoyed by the now constant use of tumblr buzzwords like privileged all over the place.
2014-01-22 09:11:52 AM
1 votes:
Here comes the neighborhood.
 
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