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(NPR)   New study shows that waves of over-privileged white kids taking over old neighborhoods, driving up prices, and pushing out the former non-white residents may actually be a good thing. Well, for the privileged white kids, anyway   (npr.org ) divider line
    More: Obvious, privilege of the white, Tompkins Square Park, social consciousness, gentrification  
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4611 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jan 2014 at 8:59 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-22 09:02:33 AM  
This story and it's study brought to you by the Association of the Rich and Over-Privileged  (AROP).
 
2014-01-22 09:02:47 AM  
thestockmasters.com
 
2014-01-22 09:04:18 AM  
The only people who biatch about gentrification are the gentrifiers who moved in last year and are upset about the gentrifiers moving in this year.
 
2014-01-22 09:04:41 AM  
so, increased land values, improved small business opportunities... and you're mad about this why again?

maybe if your "pride in your community" extended beyond covering everything in gang graffiti and violence against outsiders, you wouldn't need to be displaced in the name of progress.
 
2014-01-22 09:07:31 AM  
Getting wealthier people to move back would save Detroit.
 
2014-01-22 09:09:57 AM  
Gentrification is good for property values? Who knew?
 
2014-01-22 09:10:46 AM  
When are hipsters going to try and gentrify Detroit?
 
2014-01-22 09:11:52 AM  
Here comes the neighborhood.
 
2014-01-22 09:13:19 AM  
It was actually a close and personal look at gentrification that turned me into a Lib in the first place.  Now, I'm somewhat commiserate with it, as I eat at a lot of restaurants and shop at a lot of stores in areas that have been rebuilt.

I have to agree with the article.  The areas I've seen getting this treatment have always lost residents naturally and have empty buildings sitting around rotting.  As money starts to move in and rebuild, some people are bought out of their homes, certainly, but those homes often sell for higher values than they otherwise would have and, except for rental residents, those moves are mutual.

The rental residents, however, do need to be protected.  I'm fortunate to live in Tulsa in that respect - a wealthy philanthropist (who just died) led the charge for getting a lot of these areas rebuilt, and he also poured money into areas that remain low-income, and helped inspire others to do the same.  I drove into a low-income neighborhood the other day to find a giant duplex complex, all the homes being brand new builds, and all reserved for low-income residents.  There was probably housing enough for 300 families, and there were signs of other complexes going up.  This right across the highway from one of those gentrified areas.

Moral of the story: As long as we understand what our efforts at gentrification do, and make sure to financially support efforts to provide *good* housing and living areas for the people we displace, everyone wins and we can embiggen the entire city.
 
2014-01-22 09:13:19 AM  

The_Original_Roxtar: so, increased land values, improved small business opportunities... and you're mad about this why again?

maybe if your "pride in your community" extended beyond covering everything in gang graffiti and violence against outsiders, you wouldn't need to be displaced in the name of progress.


But that's their "culture". You're being racist or classist or something when you point out that some subcultures are better than others. So just stop it!

See also: Responsibility for one's own actions.
 
2014-01-22 09:13:45 AM  
White people coming = gentrification.
White people leaving = white flight.

Women and minorities hardest hit, as always.
 
2014-01-22 09:13:59 AM  
White people drive up housing prices.  I don't really understand why, but all things being equal (as in accounting for income, size of house, upkeep, other racist stereotypes) staking a claim in cracker town is more expensive.
 
2014-01-22 09:15:44 AM  
I'm really starting to be annoyed by the now constant use of tumblr buzzwords like privileged all over the place.
 
2014-01-22 09:15:46 AM  

markfara: The_Original_Roxtar: so, increased land values, improved small business opportunities... and you're mad about this why again?

maybe if your "pride in your community" extended beyond covering everything in gang graffiti and violence against outsiders, you wouldn't need to be displaced in the name of progress.

But that's their "culture". You're being racist or classist or something when you point out that some subcultures are better than others. So just stop it!

See also: Responsibility for one's own actions.


You sound lower middle class.
 
2014-01-22 09:16:48 AM  

markfara: But that's their "culture". You're being racist or classist or something when you point out that some subcultures are better than others. So just stop it!

See also: Responsibility for one's own actions.


I could see being "subbist" meaning something on Fark.
 
2014-01-22 09:17:20 AM  
Central East Austin seen nodding in agreement.  Or would be if they had not all packed up and had to move to North East Austin.

There are still a few holdouts down there, but man not many.
 
2014-01-22 09:17:22 AM  

GORDON: White people leaving = white flight.


I call it the Cash Dash.

It doesn't matter what color you are, if you can afford it, you get the f*ck out of the ghetto.
 
2014-01-22 09:17:52 AM  
For those of you who cant read more than 2 paragraphs into any story the research (you know, that sciency type stuff) is showing that the benefits do seem to be extended to most people (including 'poor' people) in the gentrifying areas.

Yes you will get the standard anecdotes about a guy who knew a guy who was forced to move under a bridge but between letting it fall down and a few unfortunate outcomes mixed in with generally good things happening I'll take gentrification.

/the alternative is to keep building new shiny things farther and father out into the suburbs... of course rather than being made of things like stone, cement, and oak, the facades are all plastic over plywood which should look like total shiat about 5 seconds after the money leaves the area somewhere down the line.
 
2014-01-22 09:21:23 AM  

markeology: Here comes the neighborhood.


*golf clap*
 
2014-01-22 09:21:51 AM  

orclover: Central East Austin seen nodding in agreement.  Or would be if they had not all packed up and had to move to North East Austin.

There are still a few holdouts down there, but man not many.


Is that where The Liberty is located.  It's been a few years since I was there, but those areas seemed to be in an early stage of gentrification.
 
2014-01-22 09:28:00 AM  

Rapmaster2000: markfara: The_Original_Roxtar: so, increased land values, improved small business opportunities... and you're mad about this why again?

maybe if your "pride in your community" extended beyond covering everything in gang graffiti and violence against outsiders, you wouldn't need to be displaced in the name of progress.

But that's their "culture". You're being racist or classist or something when you point out that some subcultures are better than others. So just stop it!

See also: Responsibility for one's own actions.

You sound lower middle class.


Yes, but it's not my fault.
 
2014-01-22 09:28:54 AM  
over-privileged white kids taking over old neighborhoods, driving up prices, and pushing out the former non-white residents
~

Interesting to note if the same thing happens in reverse - non-white residents taking over white neighborhoods - the same racial group are the moral bad guys. This sort of demographic shift is labelled "white flight."

This sorta subtle racism is freaken everywhere. White people are always the Germans.

i42.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-22 09:29:15 AM  
I'm all for gentrification since most people end up winners, except for renters who see their rent increase at a higher rate than their wages.

If you own a rental property and person A is willing and able to pay $2,000 a month and person B can only afford $800 a month, then sorry person B you need to find a new place to live. On the hand, low - income people shouldn't be completely screwed but I'm not sure what an equitable solution would be.
 
2014-01-22 09:30:48 AM  
Property developers push to make target commercial neighborhoods look seedier by running down their holdings and also buying out people who have to sell at a loss. It's usually a decade long poker game to see what rube gentrifies first while the pack waits to cash in. Many times a city will hand out tax breaks for the revitalizing of an area of town.
 
2014-01-22 09:31:05 AM  

Tatsuma: I'm really starting to be annoyed by the now constant use of tumblr buzzwords like privileged all over the place.


This.  How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?
 
2014-01-22 09:32:24 AM  
Complaining that euro-americans bringing civilization back whilst african-americans complain that the neighborhoods that they destroyed and took from euro-americans who rightfully stole it from the native-americans in the first place. blah-blah-blah.
 
2014-01-22 09:32:59 AM  
'Gentrification' is no longer a dirty word, simple because being against 'the man' and using associated vocabulary (i.e. the average thought-pattern of an arts major), is losing its romantic feel. It's easy to be meaninglessly idealistic when it's not crisis.
 
2014-01-22 09:33:18 AM  

Rapmaster2000: The only people who biatch about gentrification are the gentrifiers who moved in last year and are upset about the gentrifiers moving in this year.


That should be on Brooklyn's crest.
 
2014-01-22 09:33:21 AM  

markeology: Here comes the neighborhood.


1st time I have loled at fark in a while.

clap.jpg
 
2014-01-22 09:35:55 AM  

The Southern Logic Company: This. How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?


I don't know it's like I blinked and now that shiat is everywhere. It's like with the rise of tumblr a very small but very vocal segment of SJWs have managed to hijack the discourse while most of us are just confused why the news is starting to push that bullshiat full time.

These are the same people who also dogpile people and ask for them to lose their jobs the second they say something that they disagree with. Not even something extreme or hateful, just something they disagree with.

Two guys crack jokes about dongle at a conference? Clearly they need to be publicly shamed and lose their jobs for doing what everyone everywhere does.
 
2014-01-22 09:36:47 AM  

The Southern Logic Company: Tatsuma: I'm really starting to be annoyed by the now constant use of tumblr buzzwords like privileged all over the place.

This.  How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?


About the time 'entitled' became a descriptor for the behavior of any person I don't like.  See also 'hipster'.
 
2014-01-22 09:37:22 AM  
I'm looking at a $100k, 1900 square-foot 4-bedroom in a good school district today, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2014-01-22 09:39:14 AM  
As a middle class white dude in a gentrifying neighborhood, I'm getting a kick.

When I first moved in, my street was a mix of GM redneck and struggling musicians.  Chambodia was threatening to come up the street and get us (nothing wrong with that).  I picked up my house for cheap and I was happy. Close to everything. And a semi decent school district to boot.

Now...I am surrounded by 4000 sq. ft. McMansion's filled with entitled yuppies.  I get calls daily from developers who haven't come up to my price yet.  All the cool funkiness that made the place home is gone. The BOE went insane 10 years ago and is just now coming off probation.  And I am ready to retire.

Financially, I'll make out like a bandit.  But it doesn't mean I have to like it.
 
2014-01-22 09:41:47 AM  

Another Government Employee: Financially, I'll make out like a bandit. But it doesn't mean I have to like it.


You've already set a high enough price for you to move out. You'll be making incredible band and will be able to move to a new neighborhood that's more to your liking. It's pretty much a faux-pas to be complaining about your situation when you're going to be getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in pure profit. Also a better place to live. Just sayin.
 
2014-01-22 09:42:41 AM  

markeology: Here comes the neighborhood.

~

You know sometimes when ya hear an old saying, or maybe someone cracks a flippant-sounding pun.... but you've had about four bong hits and ya start thinking about it.... and you discover more levels of lulz, or maybe unlock a deeper meaning....


You just gave me one of those.


//   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT0zjorR68A
 
2014-01-22 09:42:56 AM  

BitwiseShift: Property developers push to make target commercial neighborhoods look seedier by running down their holdings and also buying out people who have to sell at a loss. It's usually a decade long poker game to see what rube gentrifies first while the pack waits to cash in. Many times a city will hand out tax breaks for the revitalizing of an area of town.


I've seen one of the most amazing "gentrifications" ever.  This was decidedly not the case.  The city out and out TARGETED the worst parts of town violently.  I am being literal.  Homeless people were beaten in the streets in an effort to drive them out of town.  No charges, no arrest, just sleeping bums beaten with nightsticks to "wake them up" then told to keep walking.

They then pumped public development projects into the area (roads paved, performing arts theatre refurbished, baseball stadium built, park revitalized).  The only tax break I know of is the city slashing property taxes to rebuild a hotel from the 1920s that was being used as a 10 floor crack house.  I've been to parties there, it was a fair environment for a keg party or smoking some crack.

There was no game to drive down prices, it was unnecessary.  Why target a slowing neighborhood when you can just pick one that's blighted and/or already a shiathole.  They might do this to make a purchase or two (like snapping up a few houses to build an apartment complex), but it's not going to go over with an entire part of town.
 
2014-01-22 09:43:14 AM  

Another Government Employee: As a middle class white dude in a gentrifying neighborhood, I'm getting a kick.

When I first moved in, my street was a mix of GM redneck and struggling musicians.  Chambodia was threatening to come up the street and get us (nothing wrong with that).  I picked up my house for cheap and I was happy. Close to everything. And a semi decent school district to boot.

Now...I am surrounded by 4000 sq. ft. McMansion's filled with entitled yuppies.  I get calls daily from developers who haven't come up to my price yet.  All the cool funkiness that made the place home is gone. The BOE went insane 10 years ago and is just now coming off probation.  And I am ready to retire.

Financially, I'll make out like a bandit.  But it doesn't mean I have to like it.


10/10
 
2014-01-22 09:46:59 AM  

YixilTesiphon: I'm looking at a $100k, 1900 square-foot 4-bedroom in a good school district today, so I'm getting a kick...


Just thought I would leave this here for you: how much will my house really cost?
 
2014-01-22 09:47:24 AM  

Tatsuma: The Southern Logic Company: This. How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?

I don't know it's like I blinked and now that shiat is everywhere. It's like with the rise of tumblr a very small but very vocal segment of SJWs have managed to hijack the discourse while most of us are just confused why the news is starting to push that bullshiat full time.

These are the same people who also dogpile people and ask for them to lose their jobs the second they say something that they disagree with. Not even something extreme or hateful, just something they disagree with.

Two guys crack jokes about dongle at a conference? Clearly they need to be publicly shamed and lose their jobs for doing what everyone everywhere does.


Whoa there, Mr. CIS-gendered, hetero normative, transmisogynist, you need to check your privilege and learn my pronouns.

But really, I'm mostly left leaning but manufactured outrage from these people has become rather annoying. It hasn't made me a Republican, but now I just hate everything.
 
2014-01-22 09:50:18 AM  
I've always laughed at those who recoiled at the word 'gentrification'; staying in a neighborhood that is improving has benefits, and certainly merits paying a few extra dollars of property tax. the fact that some may not be able to afford to is no terrible crime, its simply life. The fac tthat much of the 'problems' of gentrification were imagined, or manufactured completely doesn't surprise me at all, much like every other horrible fear invented by progressives
 
2014-01-22 09:50:25 AM  

Rapmaster2000: orclover: Central East Austin seen nodding in agreement.  Or would be if they had not all packed up and had to move to North East Austin.

There are still a few holdouts down there, but man not many.

Is that where The Liberty is located.  It's been a few years since I was there, but those areas seemed to be in an early stage of gentrification.


I had to look it up but apparently yes.  East 1st through east 11th.  I'm worried that east Rundberg will be next in the cities sites for the Gentrification bomb.  Sure it will get rid of the crime but where the hell do you put the tens of thousands of residents living here?  I mean other than Notmyproblemville.
 
2014-01-22 09:52:11 AM  
My neighborhood has gentrified over the past decade.  Let me tell you, it's an amazing thing to watch the transformation firsthand.

Yes, some people get bought out, but not by force - they just get offered prices that are better than they'd ever seen before and decide it's worthwhile to move. Rents have gone up, and the renter demographic has certainly changed, but I don't think that's a bad thing. None of the renters used to stay more than a few years. Now we have long-term neighbors who work nearby and actually care about the neighborhood.

If you're curious about the neighborhood, look up Brewery Vivant.
 
2014-01-22 09:56:40 AM  

Big Ramifications: This sort of demographic shift is labelled "white flight."

This sorta subtle racism is freaken everywhere. White people are always the Germans.


Woah. Got beaten to the punch a few times. There was only 1 comment when I started typing. PREVIEWING for extra comments is for pussies.

Playing "soldiers" back at little-tackers school, when we were setting up the ground rules, there was always an argument over who would play the Germans. [There was always a small gang of kids who never volunteer to be Germans. Nevar. Evarr ]
 
2014-01-22 09:57:46 AM  

dfacto: When are hipsters going to try and gentrify Detroit?


It's been happening for some time on a small scale.

The City of Detroit has offered writers who move to the Detroit an offer they can't refuse on housing. Artists have been moving to Detroit as well because artists need large airy well-lit studios that would be upperclass fixer-uppers in places like New York. Artists also need low rents. Detroit is perfect for many of them. It gets that understated Northerly light that many artists cherish so much.

These are the lowest income groups in the gentrification food web and are often early colonizers of places that are otherwise uninhabitable, such as Seattle. (But we love yah, Seattle. We just don't want your damned weather.)

The kind of people who squat in old houses and claim them under Homesteader's acts from the 19th Century are probably moving in as well, while some of the suburbs are being turned into farmland by hippies and residents alike. To these people, houses are like hermit crab shells--you occupy, you grow, you move. They will take a free house or one that is purchased dirt cheap and work on it for five years or so and then sell it at a massive profit. Such people operate by building houses as well. They sell as "sale by owner" but the houses they build are often the same cheap ticky tacky little boxes that you find in a row in every lower middle class suburb. It's a bit of a con, but caveat emptor.

In short, the natural process of reclamation is going on despite all the bad news you hear and has been for quite a few years.

What is needed is new industry and commercial development to restore the economy devastated by the Great Recession and by the exodus of the automobile industry to slave wage states in the South or high profit plants in Canada, where you can get very well educated workers with healthcare plans at a discount.

But I believe that Detroit will make a comeback, perhaps smaller and perhaps based on new business plans, but as a viable but slightly smaller city.

Gentrification is a natural process like the regrowth of forests and meadows on land that is burned over or logged. It is rather like the constant shuffle of hermit crabs from one empty shell to another. In fact, hermit crabs seem happy to live in tin cans or other human detritus since it does the same job as a shell and can be roomier or more durable, thus reducing the risks and costs of moving to larger quarters.

There's a whole ecological system that renovates and rebuilds neighborhoods in cities. It starts when the rich move out of their beautiful homes and the professional middle classes move in and it continues until the poor move out of the beautiful ruined homes and the artists and lower-middle class bohemians move in. Once the neighborhood is fixed (over-priced) the wealthy professionals who like to think of themselves as bohemian move in and the real bohemians move on to the next reclamation project. The real poor may indeed benefit from this shell game. In any case, the real poor tend to move each time the rent comes due or goes up, always looking for cheaper rents and jobs and places that still have botegas and independent grocery stores.

I think the late great leftie urbanist Jane Jacobs would approve. She moved to Toronto before Toronto was chic.

Here is an article on her masterwork:  The Death and Life of Great American Cities

God bless her. She was a visionary's visionary. She stood up to not only the rich but their modernist esthetic. To my mind, Modernism is passé, or should be.  Only rich people can afford empty space, giant statues and paintings, and minimalist lifestyles and art. Them and corporations with warehouses to fill with loot that will keep its value through thick and thin.

Even the super-rich are putting away 90% of their stuff in storage nowadays. Blast them! That stuff should be in the homes of poor hardworking one percenters.
 
2014-01-22 09:58:03 AM  

Enlightened Liberal: Whoa there, Mr. CIS-gendered, hetero normative, transmisogynist, you need to check your privilege and learn my pronouns.

But really, I'm mostly left leaning but manufactured outrage from these people has become rather annoying. It hasn't made me a Republican, but now I just hate everything.


The whole xir-zhe-them thing is just so farking confusingly ridiculous. It's like a generation that grew up being told how special they are and constantly just took selfies hit 20 and flooded the internet with cries of being taken seriously on their own terms. They are so incredibly unique they need to invent terms that describes them and only them. That's why I love that joke:

What's the difference between someone who's bisexual and someone who's pansexual? The bisexual is attracted to both sexes while the pansexual is attracted to attention.

Because of that shiat and companies thinking that because these people have a loud voice online that they represent the public and they need to cater to them. That's why NPR publishes simultaneously articles blaming white people for gentrification and the next day for white flight. Why you have a controversy over a team named after Native Americans. The name stood for decades, but thank Heavens we had some white liberals to suddenly get offended for minorities who were not in the least bothered by something. How I Met Your Mother makes a kung-fu parody?

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-22 09:58:06 AM  

reillan: It was actually a close and personal look at gentrification that turned me into a Lib in the first place.  Now, I'm somewhat commiserate with it, as I eat at a lot of restaurants and shop at a lot of stores in areas that have been rebuilt.

I have to agree with the article.  The areas I've seen getting this treatment have always lost residents naturally and have empty buildings sitting around rotting.  As money starts to move in and rebuild, some people are bought out of their homes, certainly, but those homes often sell for higher values than they otherwise would have and, except for rental residents, those moves are mutual.

The rental residents, however, do need to be protected.  I'm fortunate to live in Tulsa in that respect - a wealthy philanthropist (who just died) led the charge for getting a lot of these areas rebuilt, and he also poured money into areas that remain low-income, and helped inspire others to do the same.  I drove into a low-income neighborhood the other day to find a giant duplex complex, all the homes being brand new builds, and all reserved for low-income residents.  There was probably housing enough for 300 families, and there were signs of other complexes going up.  This right across the highway from one of those gentrified areas.

Moral of the story: As long as we understand what our efforts at gentrification do, and make sure to financially support efforts to provide *good* housing and living areas for the people we displace, everyone wins and we can embiggen the entire city.


I believe this is the first time anyone has uttered the phrase "I'm fortunate to live in Tulsa."
 
2014-01-22 09:58:56 AM  

sigdiamond2000: Another Government Employee: As a middle class white dude in a gentrifying neighborhood, I'm getting a kick.

When I first moved in, my street was a mix of GM redneck and struggling musicians.  Chambodia was threatening to come up the street and get us (nothing wrong with that).  I picked up my house for cheap and I was happy. Close to everything. And a semi decent school district to boot.

Now...I am surrounded by 4000 sq. ft. McMansion's filled with entitled yuppies.  I get calls daily from developers who haven't come up to my price yet.  All the cool funkiness that made the place home is gone. The BOE went insane 10 years ago and is just now coming off probation.  And I am ready to retire.

Financially, I'll make out like a bandit.  But it doesn't mean I have to like it.

10/10


I only wish it were a troll.
 
2014-01-22 10:04:17 AM  

Enlightened Liberal: Tatsuma: The Southern Logic Company: This. How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?

I don't know it's like I blinked and now that shiat is everywhere. It's like with the rise of tumblr a very small but very vocal segment of SJWs have managed to hijack the discourse while most of us are just confused why the news is starting to push that bullshiat full time.

These are the same people who also dogpile people and ask for them to lose their jobs the second they say something that they disagree with. Not even something extreme or hateful, just something they disagree with.

Two guys crack jokes about dongle at a conference? Clearly they need to be publicly shamed and lose their jobs for doing what everyone everywhere does.

Whoa there, Mr. CIS-gendered, hetero normative, transmisogynist, you need to check your privilege and learn my pronouns.

But really, I'm mostly left leaning but manufactured outrage from these people has become rather annoying. It hasn't made me a Republican, but now I just hate everything.


"Manufactured outrage" is exactly the right word for it.  We get outraged for a good reason, to prompt people into action to right a wrong.  Constant outrage is like the boy who cried wolf, why am I supposed to care?

I agree with most SJWs in principal but I despise them for their tactics.  Its like the Tea Party of the left
 
2014-01-22 10:07:12 AM  
+1 for 'will mae

Another Government Employee: As a middle class white dude in a gentrifying neighborhood, I'm getting a kick.

When I first moved in, my street was a mix of GM redneck and struggling musicians.  Chambodia was threatening to come up the street and get us (nothing wrong with that).  I picked up my house for cheap and I was happy. Close to everything. And a semi decent school district to boot.

Now...I am surrounded by 4000 sq. ft. McMansion's filled with entitled yuppies.  I get calls daily from developers who haven't come up to my price yet.  All the cool funkiness that made the place home is gone. The BOE went insane 10 years ago and is just now coming off probation.  And I am ready to retire.

Financially, I'll make out like a bandit.  But it doesn't mean I have to like it.


+1 for 'will make out like a bandit'. but only if I move out of London when I sell, else I'll just face crazy prices to buy

fortunately im not surrounded by mcmansions, so no desire to sell right now
 
2014-01-22 10:15:10 AM  
gentrification: people should live in specific parts of town based on their skin color.

somehow, this is not racist.
 
2014-01-22 10:16:51 AM  

Big Ramifications: Interesting to note if the same thing happens in reverse - non-white residents taking over white neighborhoods - the same racial group are the moral bad guys. This sort of demographic shift is labelled "white flight."


I think it's worth pointing out that in the famous examples of "white flight" of 50 years ago, the percentage of minority residents in urban areas increased, but the absolute urban populations fell through the floor.

In other words, it's not that more minorities came in and pushed the whites out; it's that the whites moved to the suburbs and no one moved into the city to replace them.
 
2014-01-22 10:28:36 AM  

dfacto: When are hipsters going to try and gentrify Detroit?


It is happening right now.  Detroit is seeing an influx of hipster kids from wealthy parents in the burbs.  They are bringing their microbrews, bike shops, coffee houses, and artisan sausage dispensaries with them.  It is causing tension in some of the areas where the old residents are painting "HIPSTER GO HOME!" on the sides of the houses they fixed up.

I'm all for it.  Hipsters with money and fixing up a neighborhood is better than people with no money or no people at all.  Go Hipsters!
 
2014-01-22 10:31:03 AM  
My experience is that the "overprivledged" white people we are talking about are actually the sons and daughters of the middle class that are just starting out and don't have very much money. By "not much money" I mean sometimes pretty damn poor. They move into these neighborhoods partly because they can afford to rent or buy, while they certainly can't afford the suburbs they came from.

Urban living is also attractive, but any way you cut it you do need to be able to afford the place. Young people moving into crappy areas of town says as much about the declining wages in our country as anything else.
 
2014-01-22 10:32:03 AM  
When white people left the cities for the suburbs, people complained about white flight, and now that white people are moving back into the cities, people complain about gentrification.
 
2014-01-22 10:34:10 AM  

SigmaAlgebra: When white people left the cities for the suburbs, people complained about white flight, and now that white people are moving back into the cities, people complain about gentrification.


Ofcourse, eveything is whitey fault... did you learn nothing in school?
 
2014-01-22 10:36:19 AM  

SigmaAlgebra: When white people left the cities for the suburbs, people complained about white flight, and now that white people are moving back into the cities, people complain about gentrification.


And when the money flows around a city (in DC, they've spent a lot of time rebuilding in SE around the new stadium, but there are better-off neighborhoods that have fallen into disrepair over that time), it's both.

I'm all for doing things fairly, but people also need places to live and work; why not choose among available options in whatever urban neighborhood rather than "staying among your own" race/social stratum/whatever?
 
2014-01-22 10:42:07 AM  

The Southern Logic Company: Enlightened Liberal: Tatsuma: The Southern Logic Company: This. How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?

I don't know it's like I blinked and now that shiat is everywhere. It's like with the rise of tumblr a very small but very vocal segment of SJWs have managed to hijack the discourse while most of us are just confused why the news is starting to push that bullshiat full time.

These are the same people who also dogpile people and ask for them to lose their jobs the second they say something that they disagree with. Not even something extreme or hateful, just something they disagree with.

Two guys crack jokes about dongle at a conference? Clearly they need to be publicly shamed and lose their jobs for doing what everyone everywhere does.

Whoa there, Mr. CIS-gendered, hetero normative, transmisogynist, you need to check your privilege and learn my pronouns.

But really, I'm mostly left leaning but manufactured outrage from these people has become rather annoying. It hasn't made me a Republican, but now I just hate everything.

"Manufactured outrage" is exactly the right word for it.  We get outraged for a good reason, to prompt people into action to right a wrong.  Constant outrage is like the boy who cried wolf, why am I supposed to care?

I agree with most SJWs in principal but I despise them for their tactics.  Its like the Tea Party of the left


SJW's in a nutshell: "people of color" = okay, "colored people" = racist.
 
2014-01-22 10:43:56 AM  
Those areas ain't gonna fix themselves up.
 
2014-01-22 10:58:52 AM  
I live in an area of Chicago which is statistically just as safe as the already-gentrified areas but has a bad reputation regardless because of decades of truly horrific mismanagement by the previous alderman.

It's full of SRO housing - single rooms rented by the day or week - housing that barely fits the standard of housing.  Half of the buildings are mismanaged and left to rot.  Some of the more notorious ones are comparable to those crappy Japanese commuter hotels, without the sanitation.

And yet there is such enormous outcry every time one of these festering shiatholes is bought by a developer and turned into reasonable market-rate housing.   Oh no, where will the people who have been squatting in foetid misery for years among bedbugs and feces live now?  How dare the gentrifiers push them out of their homes? (I wish I was being hyperbolic, but some of the video I've seen of the interior of those places when they go in to rehab is absolutely horrifying.)

I live in a hundred year old stone building that was rescued from deterioration and gut-rehabbed during the housing boom. From some of the reactions I get to being a "condo owner" in my area you'd think I was literally Hitler.

I understand that affordable housing is a very serious concern, and it needs to be addressed.  But letting beautiful old buildings literally fall apart so that they can be rented out by slumlords to the desperate is definitely not the answer.

I love my neighborhood.  We have some of the very best ethnic restaurants in the city, great transit and a bright future. I definitely don't want to see people driven out and would love to see more affordable, reasonable and safe housing.   But the number of people who want to keep it mired in the unsavory past always shocks the hell out of me.
 
2014-01-22 11:01:08 AM  
Took a course in "Urban and Regional Planning" during grad school, and didn't learn much that I didn't already know.  (I'll have to concede that the professor was no "spring chicken," however.)

In any town with a major college/university, there is a convergence of affluence and relative poverty. Including students, who rent housing in the same off-campus areas as the people who change the tires, cook the food, play the music, and sell drugs on the side.

/Not sure what my "thesis" is here; something about magnetic attraction and repulsion and blah, blah, blah.
 
2014-01-22 11:21:21 AM  

SoupJohnB: Took a course in "Urban and Regional Planning" during grad school, and didn't learn much that I didn't already know.  (I'll have to concede that the professor was no "spring chicken," however.)

In any town with a major college/university, there is a convergence of affluence and relative poverty. Including students, who rent housing in the same off-campus areas as the people who change the tires, cook the food, play the music, and sell drugs on the side.

/Not sure what my "thesis" is here; something about magnetic attraction and repulsion and blah, blah, blah.


intrigued; wish to subscribe; profit
 
2014-01-22 11:29:28 AM  
verbaltoxin:

SJW's in a nutshell: "people of color" = okay, "colored people" = racist.

I think its time to drop a Wittgenstein bomb on tumblr if they want to keep playing around with philosophy of language.
 
2014-01-22 11:39:10 AM  

Tatsuma: The Southern Logic Company: This. How did this become accepted pretty much overnight?

I don't know it's like I blinked and now that shiat is everywhere. It's like with the rise of tumblr a very small but very vocal segment of SJWs have managed to hijack the discourse while most of us are just confused why the news is starting to push that bullshiat full time.

These are the same people who also dogpile people and ask for them to lose their jobs the second they say something that they disagree with. Not even something extreme or hateful, just something they disagree with.

Two guys crack jokes about dongle at a conference? Clearly they need to be publicly shamed and lose their jobs for doing what everyone everywhere does.


Claiming someone is "abusing their privilege" is just another way to label someone, and therefore negate them.  Why bother treating someone with respect when they are obviously just another liberal/tea bagger/racist/homophobe/sexist?  "Privilege" is just an updated way to call someone a casual racist.
 
2014-01-22 11:42:47 AM  
Takeaway: the poor have a duty to remain poor in their poor squalid conditions.

/poor
 
2014-01-22 11:49:40 AM  
Can't say I was welcomed to Fort Greene with open arms when this was going on in the nineties.  Being an urban pioneer is just like that.

The old folks don't want you around because you're not the same people they grew up with.  The cops don't want to know you because they have to start chasing after property crimes.  The neighborhood was nice, but you had to deal with things like Not Having a Bank or Buying Food from the Bulletproof Chinese Place.

Never could figure out this one storefront that was blacked out and always had a gas generator going out in front.  Made a huge racket and in the whole time I was there, it only stopped once when the cops were invesitgating something up the block.  I assume someone was running a marijuana grow operation there and was trying to keep their power consumption off the grid, but surely using all that gas must have eaten up their margin.  It's probably a Stumptown now.
 
2014-01-22 11:58:37 AM  
FTFA - Some days, he says, he's very concerned about what will happen to the beauty salon across the street from his bench. Its owners often do elderly people's hair for free.

THIS is what the problem is. Areas that are typically very intermingled and neighborly losing out to money and paranoid rich people who build 8ft security fences, concrete their entire property, remove every tree there for fear of 'storm damage', then biatch and complain because every house in a five block radius does not look exactly like their 'desert compound'. (Recently, a fellow dweller of the neighborhood wanted to remodel his house. The city informed him that any improvements would force the city to demand he tear it down because the windows were not aligned on the walls like the other houses were... I am not making this up). These new people are from the more affluent sections of the area, and they are moving because they cannot afford the prices in those areas... prices that are artificially inflated thanks to these same people. And they want to come here like locusts, re-build everything in cheap plastic, drive up property values and destroy that 'neighborhood' feeling. Those vulture developers already are building duplexes and condos on property that once had houses. Do not stand there and preach to me about how this helps the neighborhood. I am witnessing the destruction of my neighborhood, one I have happily lived in for over 12 years, thanks to greed and the desire to make this part of town like the rich part... you know, the one that is so overpriced and pretentious thanks to overdevelopment, the desire to maximize coverage, and the drive to make sure every corner has a Charbucks on it.

/and don't get me started on the HOAs now being formed in the 're-built' sections of my neighborhood. They are worse than Nazis, having lived here less than a year and trying to tell the rest of us how the neighborhood should be and how we should be living in our homes.
 
2014-01-22 12:03:24 PM  
I live in Washington page now. I'm all fr gentrification of this area. We started renovating our house (big Victorian ) and because of that some of the neighborhood realized how crappy they looked and started cleaning up. Because of Marcella shale this area is up and coming and I really look forward to the trash being pushed out of the market
 
2014-01-22 12:04:12 PM  

James Rieper: Being an urban pioneer is just like that.


I get your point, that sentence just really, really made you sound like a dick.  "I braved the hardships of poor people, so others could live a civilized life after me."

/really.
 
2014-01-22 12:12:02 PM  

GORDON: Claiming someone is "abusing their privilege" is just another way to label someone, and therefore negate them. Why bother treating someone with respect when they are obviously just another liberal/tea bagger/racist/homophobe/sexist? "Privilege" is just an updated way to call someone a casual racist.


Pretty much, yeah. It's all mental gymnastics, ideological purity and either redefining language or inventing words in order to remove certain concepts or opinion from popular though. It's social 1984.

In their search for ideological purity, the cries of "tolerance" are not enough anymore. It used to be everyone believed society would be better if only we were tolerant of each others. Didn't have to like each other, didn't have to interact, but as long as we tolerated each others and had equal rights, everyone was better off. Now, if you're tolerant but not accepting, you suddenly become evil. If you have never read about the "cotton ceiling", go ahead. We're living in an era where even your sexual preferences can be used to paint you as oppressive and a bigot.

This is madness.
 
2014-01-22 12:28:56 PM  

Another Government Employee: As a middle class white dude in a gentrifying neighborhood, I'm getting a kick.

When I first moved in, my street was a mix of GM redneck and struggling musicians.  Chambodia was threatening to come up the street and get us (nothing wrong with that).  I picked up my house for cheap and I was happy. Close to everything. And a semi decent school district to boot.

Now...I am surrounded by 4000 sq. ft. McMansion's filled with entitled yuppies.  I get calls daily from developers who haven't come up to my price yet.  All the cool funkiness that made the place home is gone. The BOE went insane 10 years ago and is just now coming off probation.  And I am ready to retire.

Financially, I'll make out like a bandit.  But it doesn't mean I have to like it.


Just tie a couple thousand helium balloons to your fireplace and float to South America, gramps.
 
2014-01-22 12:33:56 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: so, increased land values, improved small business opportunities... and you're mad about this why again?

maybe if your "pride in your community" extended beyond covering everything in gang graffiti and violence against outsiders, you wouldn't need to be displaced in the name of progress.


Except when the reward for giving up gang graffiti and violence against outsiders is getting priced out of your home and having to move somewhere with gang graffti, violence against outsiders, violence against insiders, fewer jobs and worse transportation.
 
2014-01-22 12:35:42 PM  

Nexzus: Another Government Employee: As a middle class white dude in a gentrifying neighborhood, I'm getting a kick.

When I first moved in, my street was a mix of GM redneck and struggling musicians.  Chambodia was threatening to come up the street and get us (nothing wrong with that).  I picked up my house for cheap and I was happy. Close to everything. And a semi decent school district to boot.

Now...I am surrounded by 4000 sq. ft. McMansion's filled with entitled yuppies.  I get calls daily from developers who haven't come up to my price yet.  All the cool funkiness that made the place home is gone. The BOE went insane 10 years ago and is just now coming off probation.  And I am ready to retire.

Financially, I'll make out like a bandit.  But it doesn't mean I have to like it.

Just tie a couple thousand helium balloons to your fireplace and float to South America, gramps.


Sounds like a plan.

Now get off my lawn.
 
2014-01-22 12:57:43 PM  

Tatsuma: "cotton ceiling",


What?

I'm not being facetious, I really didn't understand the point of that link.  So... a transgendered lesbian is a woman who has gotten a sex change, but still calls themselves a woman?  Is that what's happening?  Wouldn't that just be buyer's remorse?
 
2014-01-22 01:03:28 PM  

Tatsuma: GORDON: Claiming someone is "abusing their privilege" is just another way to label someone, and therefore negate them. Why bother treating someone with respect when they are obviously just another liberal/tea bagger/racist/homophobe/sexist? "Privilege" is just an updated way to call someone a casual racist.

Pretty much, yeah. It's all mental gymnastics, ideological purity and either redefining language or inventing words in order to remove certain concepts or opinion from popular though. It's social 1984.

In their search for ideological purity, the cries of "tolerance" are not enough anymore. It used to be everyone believed society would be better if only we were tolerant of each others. Didn't have to like each other, didn't have to interact, but as long as we tolerated each others and had equal rights, everyone was better off. Now, if you're tolerant but not accepting, you suddenly become evil. If you have never read about the "cotton ceiling", go ahead. We're living in an era where even your sexual preferences can be used to paint you as oppressive and a bigot.

This is madness.


I suspect this kind of thinking is catching on because of the nature of the internet.  Used to be a nutball running around with a "everyone is racist/privileged" world view would just be the local nutball... but now with the internet every nutball has a voice and is able to reinforce every other nutball's delusions.  It is a self feeding cycle.  The more they are heard, the louder they get.  Just think how insane things will be 20 years from now.

But what do i know.... I am just another white male who was obviously raised to think his opinion matters, flaunting the fact he had access to good public education in everyones faces.  I don't have enough of a victim mentality to be taken seriously.
 
2014-01-22 01:08:59 PM  

Tatsuma: GORDON: Claiming someone is "abusing their privilege" is just another way to label someone, and therefore negate them. Why bother treating someone with respect when they are obviously just another liberal/tea bagger/racist/homophobe/sexist? "Privilege" is just an updated way to call someone a casual racist.

Pretty much, yeah. It's all mental gymnastics, ideological purity and either redefining language or inventing words in order to remove certain concepts or opinion from popular though. It's social 1984.

In their search for ideological purity, the cries of "tolerance" are not enough anymore. It used to be everyone believed society would be better if only we were tolerant of each others. Didn't have to like each other, didn't have to interact, but as long as we tolerated each others and had equal rights, everyone was better off. Now, if you're tolerant but not accepting, you suddenly become evil. If you have never read about the "cotton ceiling", go ahead. We're living in an era where even your sexual preferences can be used to paint you as oppressive and a bigot.

This is madness.


Madness indeed:

people's desires are influenced by an intersection of cultural messages that determine those desires. Cultural messages that code trans women's bodies as male are transphobic, and those messages influence people's desires. So cis queer women who are attracted to other queer women may not view trans women as viable sexual partners because they have internalized the message that trans women are somehow male.

I really hate how the author of this email asserts that the messages we are sent we completely internalize without any rational though.  As if we were all but automata with no ability to critically think or ignore things that are hateful/ignorant/biased.  Her statement that "There aren't enough lesbian female + trans female relationships" being proof of a phobia or "cotton ceiling" is just absurd.  Just because there are no couples that fit that pair doesn't mean that there is inherent discrimination.  There may not be any East Timor/Peruvian couples but one can't logically conclude that people of those two countries have some sort of hate/discrimination at work because there exists no logical union.

Absurd.  Someone put these people in a critical thinking class ASAP.
 
2014-01-22 01:09:30 PM  

The Muthaship: GORDON: White people leaving = white flight.

I call it the Cash Dash.

It doesn't matter what color you are, if you can afford it, you get the f*ck out of the ghetto.

~

I was taken to the ghetto once. That's the worst when you're taken and you're not expecting to go. Usually you want to know when you're going to the ghetto, like, "I'm gonna see some wild shiat, I gotta prepare myself to see something crazy."

i39.tinypic.com

When you're taken its different. I had a limousine driver, it was after the show, at like 3 in the morning. I had a limousine driver, he's a nice guy, talking to me and shiat. He's like, "Where you from, dog? D.C.? Word. That's a rough city, man."

And his cellphone started ringing, he's like, "Hold one one second.... Hello? Oh, what's up n!#gger? What? What the fark, slow down, what? What the FARK? No! No! No! Fark it, I'm on my way!"

*intercom warning noise*

"Hey, I gotta make a stop real quick."
 
2014-01-22 01:18:07 PM  

mike_d85: I'm not being facetious, I really didn't understand the point of that link. So... a transgendered lesbian is a woman who has gotten a sex change, but still calls themselves a woman? Is that what's happening? Wouldn't that just be buyer's remorse?


Basically this is a movement to label lesbians who refuse to sleep with people who declare themselves to be women but still have penises to be bigots. Yes, you have people telling lesbians that they are bigoted for not wanting to have a partner with a penis.

GORDON: I suspect this kind of thinking is catching on because of the nature of the internet. Used to be a nutball running around with a "everyone is racist/privileged" world view would just be the local nutball... but now with the internet every nutball has a voice and is able to reinforce every other nutball's delusions. It is a self feeding cycle. The more they are heard, the louder they get. Just think how insane things will be 20 years from now.


It has to be. Hopefully there's a backlash from the majority of people whose skin is not so thin it's near translucent.
 
2014-01-22 01:18:41 PM  

mike_d85: Tatsuma: "cotton ceiling",

What?

I'm not being facetious, I really didn't understand the point of that link.  So... a transgendered lesbian is a woman who has gotten a sex change, but still calls themselves a woman?  Is that what's happening?  Wouldn't that just be buyer's remorse?


It exposes something of a rift in the LBGTQ community going back 40+ years. Even though the 'T' is there, trans* issues are often shunted aside in favor of issues that pertain to the gay community (issues that are almost 100% cisgendered). The issues pertaining more to the trans* community - like the shockingly high amount of police brutality, and the kaleidoscope of social issues (starting with the simple issue of where to poop) - they feel, are ignored in "LBGT" groups.

So that link, assuming I understand (gotta check my white cismale privilege here), is that Redacted Lesbian feels that a lesbian who wouldn't sleep with a woman with boy parts is doing a disservice to the trans* community by thinking (or "has been brainwashed by the gendered, heteronormative society into thinking") that only women - and ALL women - have vaginas. OP is flustered (as am I) since a simple understanding of "lesbian" is "woman in woman's body attracted to women in womens' bodies", which sort of excludes the penis by definition.

Redacted Lesbian finds this offensive, as if someone's sexual preference were a conscious choice one could "undo" the "uncomfortable" parts of.
 
2014-01-22 01:39:22 PM  

brantgoose: But we love yah, Seattle. We just don't want your damned weather.


Our weather has been in the 40s and mild the entire time that the rest of the country has been either freezing or unseasonably warm. You keep your weather, we like ours just fine.
 
2014-01-22 01:40:04 PM  

Tatsuma: Basically this is a movement to label lesbians who refuse to sleep with people who declare themselves to be women but still have penises to be bigots. Yes, you have people telling lesbians that they are bigoted for not wanting to have a partner with a penis.


OK.  Now I know why I don't get it.  It doesn't make any goddamned sense.

Dr Dreidel: It exposes something of a rift in the LBGTQ community going back 40+ years. Even though the 'T' is there, trans* issues are often shunted aside in favor of issues that pertain to the gay community (issues that are almost 100% cisgendered). The issues pertaining more to the trans* community - like the shockingly high amount of police brutality, and the kaleidoscope of social issues (starting with the simple issue of where to poop) - they feel, are ignored in "LBGT" groups.
 
OK, the practicalities of transgendered life I get (and it's sad I need to include police brutality as a "practicality"), but why are they assuming ANY definition of sexuality is learned?  Every single source would have been beating heteronormative behavior into them, so they should have turned into straight as-wielding lumberjack men.  Or perhaps dainty ladies fetching sammiches.  I'm still not sure what exactly a transgendered lesbian is.


/I still think it's pathetic that "gender" has anything to do with something other than sexual organs or chromisomes.
 
2014-01-22 01:47:13 PM  

Dr Dreidel: It exposes something of a rift in the LBGTQ community going back 40+ years. Even though the 'T' is there, trans* issues are often shunted aside in favor of issues that pertain to the gay community (issues that are almost 100% cisgendered). The issues pertaining more to the trans* community - like the shockingly high amount of police brutality, and the kaleidoscope of social issues (starting with the simple issue of where to poop) - they feel, are ignored in "LBGT" groups.

So that link, assuming I understand (gotta check my white cismale privilege here), is that Redacted Lesbian feels that a lesbian who wouldn't sleep with a woman with boy parts is doing a disservice to the trans* community by thinking (or "has been brainwashed by the gendered, heteronormative society into thinking") that only women - and ALL women - have vaginas. OP is flustered (as am I) since a simple understanding of "lesbian" is "woman in woman's body attracted to women in womens' bodies", which sort of excludes the penis by definition.


Stupid bullshiat like that gets in the way of real bad shiat that happens to people, like getting beat up by the government.
 
2014-01-22 01:57:05 PM  
static1.businessinsider.com

Yo about to be culturally enriched.
 
2014-01-22 02:09:22 PM  
I've never understood why "gentrification" is a bad thing in American cities. The white people run away in white flight, that's bad...the white people come back and invest money, that's bad. But in reality, your property increases in value, you get more services, more convenient commercial outlets, the white people won't put up with the bullshiat that used to make it a bad neighborhood, etc. It seems like a win-win for everyone except the people who have to leave because white people won't put up with them anymore.
 
2014-01-22 02:13:42 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: I've never understood why "gentrification" is a bad thing in American cities. The white people run away in white flight, that's bad...the white people come back and invest money, that's bad. But in reality, your property increases in value, you get more services, more convenient commercial outlets, the white people won't put up with the bullshiat that used to make it a bad neighborhood, etc. It seems like a win-win for everyone except the people who have to leave because white people won't put up with them anymore.


White people....Bad.

That simple.
 
2014-01-22 03:10:30 PM  

verbaltoxin: SJW's in a nutshell: "people of color" = okay, "colored people" = racist.


If you want to make an SJW completely melt down, insist that Caucasians must therefore be called "people of whiteness".
 
2014-01-22 03:12:40 PM  
gerrymander

If you want to make an SJW completely melt down, insist that Caucasians must therefore be called "people of whiteness".

But what would you call Europeans? People of whiter whiteness?
 
2014-01-22 03:26:49 PM  

Enlightened Liberal: I'm all for gentrification since most people end up winners, except for renters who see their rent increase at a higher rate than their wages.

If you own a rental property and person A is willing and able to pay $2,000 a month and person B can only afford $800 a month, then sorry person B you need to find a new place to live. On the hand, low - income people shouldn't be completely screwed but I'm not sure what an equitable solution would be.


One solution is to put in place nationwide rules that prevent raising rent for existing tenants above the normal inflation rate, and rules that forbid a lease to be terminated if the property changes owners. Obviously, when the lease expires, the tenant would have to negotiate with the new owner, but if the former law is also in effect, the new owner could not raise rent more than 5% over the previous year's rent.

This is how Gentrification pushes out the poor, because there are no protections for tenants to prevent price-gouging when property values change, or a landlord sells or remodels their property. It happened to my family back in the 80s, and we were not poor. Property values had gone up due to new housing developments in the area, and our landlord sold the property to someone else. Because of the change in ownership, our old lease was now null and void, and our new landlord immediately raised our rent by nearly 50%.
 
2014-01-22 03:41:49 PM  

Loreweaver: Because of the change in ownership, our old lease was now null and void,


Where was this at?  Everywhere I've ever lived, the lease goes with the property in a sale and new owners have to honor the existing lease until it comes up for renewal.
 
2014-01-22 03:55:16 PM  

Loreweaver: Enlightened Liberal: I'm all for gentrification since most people end up winners, except for renters who see their rent increase at a higher rate than their wages.

If you own a rental property and person A is willing and able to pay $2,000 a month and person B can only afford $800 a month, then sorry person B you need to find a new place to live. On the hand, low - income people shouldn't be completely screwed but I'm not sure what an equitable solution would be.

One solution is to put in place nationwide rules that prevent making improvements to rental propertiesraising rent for existing tenants above the normal inflation rate, and rules that forbid a lease to be terminated if the property changes owners. Obviously, when the lease expires, the tenant would have to negotiate with the new owner, but if the former law is also in effect, the new owner could not raise rent more than 5% over the previous year's rent.



That's what you're saying.
 
2014-01-22 04:59:21 PM  

Big Ramifications: over-privileged white kids taking over old neighborhoods, driving up prices, and pushing out the former non-white residents
~

Interesting to note if the same thing happens in reverse - non-white residents taking over white neighborhoods - the same racial group are the moral bad guys. This sort of demographic shift is labelled "white flight."

This sorta subtle racism is freaken everywhere. White people are always the Germans.

[i42.tinypic.com image 350x264]


Well, that's because "white flight" is an accurate description of what is happening.  Crime goes up, property values go down, and white people get the hell out.

While with gentrification, crime goes down, property values go up, and black and brown people do not actually flee (if this study is accurate).

Calling different phenomena by different names is a good idea.
 
2014-01-22 05:12:22 PM  
Loreweaver, it's possible for the increase in value on a property to exceed the national rate of inflation.  Why should the landlord eat the difference?

I think you got hosed in your story.  Did your attorney tell you that or did the new owner?  I think someone may have successfully put one over on you, but I'd have to know more.
 
2014-01-22 05:26:04 PM  

mike_d85: James Rieper: Being an urban pioneer is just like that.

I get your point, that sentence just really, really made you sound like a dick.  "I braved the hardships of poor people, so others could live a civilized life after me."

/really.


I live in a gentrified neighborhood, and I'm grateful for the pioneers (most of 'em gay) who made it a nice place to live.  And no, it wasn't a civilized place before them.  Sorry.
 
2014-01-22 05:44:59 PM  
The area around the Tivoli theater in DC was gentrified years ago. It was amazing to see I was always around there when it was a bad neighborhood, then they fixed up the theater and made that the focal point like with the verizon center in chinatown. It was weird I hadnt been there in years and when I went back I was shocked how different it was.
 
2014-01-22 06:12:27 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: gerrymander

If you want to make an SJW completely melt down, insist that Caucasians must therefore be called "people of whiteness".

But what would you call Europeans? People of whiter whiteness?


Still "people of whiteness".

/Except for the Belgians.
//Let's not call them anything. Let's just ignore them.
 
2014-01-22 06:50:29 PM  

GORDON: White people coming = gentrification.
White people leaving = white flight.

Women and minorities hardest hit, as always.


Interesting and same to the OP. At what point did the article mention "white" or "non-white" people at all?
 
2014-01-22 07:05:21 PM  

Freudian_slipknot: Loreweaver: Because of the change in ownership, our old lease was now null and void,

Where was this at?  Everywhere I've ever lived, the lease goes with the property in a sale and new owners have to honor the existing lease until it comes up for renewal.


At lot of leases are designed to be extended/renewed on a month-to-month basis after the first year. This is where my father got burned. The lease was up at the end of the month after the sale. It was a private sale to someone he knew, and we were never even told about it until the sale happened.
 
2014-01-22 07:17:41 PM  

James Rieper: Loreweaver, it's possible for the increase in value on a property to exceed the national rate of inflation.  Why should the landlord eat the difference?

I think you got hosed in your story.  Did your attorney tell you that or did the new owner?  I think someone may have successfully put one over on you, but I'd have to know more.


As far as I'm aware, your mortgage on a rental property you own doesn't go up just because property values in the neighborhood went up. There is no legit reason for the landlord to increase rent higher than inflation, since his costs have not gone up. One could argue that the taxes go up, but that increase still amounts to less than a 5% increase in the rent he is charging.

Plus, any decent landlord is supposed to figure in the cost of home improvements over time when setting the initial rent on a property. Only slumlords and profiteers seek to gouge tenants for repairs and improvements.
 
2014-01-22 07:31:28 PM  
Loreweaver: One solution is to put in place nationwide rules that prevent raising rent for existing tenants above the normal inflation rate, and rules that forbid a lease to be terminated if the property changes owners. Obviously, when the lease expires, the tenant would have to negotiate with the new owner, but if the former law is also in effect, the new owner could not raise rent more than 5% over the previous year's rent.

 HAHAHAHAHA. News flash: people buy rental properties to make money. Not as a charity or public service. We could call that the "we made existing rental property worthless and no one will buy them" law. And where are you going to rent when no one owns rental property?
 
2014-01-22 08:15:57 PM  

Phins: Loreweaver: One solution is to put in place nationwide rules that prevent raising rent for existing tenants above the normal inflation rate, and rules that forbid a lease to be terminated if the property changes owners. Obviously, when the lease expires, the tenant would have to negotiate with the new owner, but if the former law is also in effect, the new owner could not raise rent more than 5% over the previous year's rent.

 HAHAHAHAHA. News flash: people buy rental properties to make money. Not as a charity or public service. We could call that the "we made existing rental property worthless and no one will buy them" law. And where are you going to rent when no one owns rental property?


Don't get me wrong. i am not against landlords turning a profit. But there is a big difference between owning property to turn a profit, and treating someone's home as yet another get-rich-quick scheme, like we saw with the housing bubble.
 
2014-01-22 09:22:53 PM  

Loreweaver: Phins: Loreweaver: One solution is to put in place nationwide rules that prevent raising rent for existing tenants above the normal inflation rate, and rules that forbid a lease to be terminated if the property changes owners. Obviously, when the lease expires, the tenant would have to negotiate with the new owner, but if the former law is also in effect, the new owner could not raise rent more than 5% over the previous year's rent.

 HAHAHAHAHA. News flash: people buy rental properties to make money. Not as a charity or public service. We could call that the "we made existing rental property worthless and no one will buy them" law. And where are you going to rent when no one owns rental property?

Don't get me wrong. i am not against landlords turning a profit. But there is a big difference between owning property to turn a profit, and treating someone's home as yet another get-rich-quick scheme, like we saw with the housing bubble.


If you're not trying to maximize profit, you shouldn't be investing or owning a business. And if you're a property owner and you could be getting more in rent but just don't, you're a moron. You seriously believe that government should be able to limit the amount of profit a company can make? Or the amount of return on an investment? Do you also believe there should be a law that limits what you can sell your house for? You can only sell for 5% more than you paid? Or you can only sell for the same price you bought, adjusted for inflation? C'mon, be a nice guy, leave money on the table for a stranger. I'm going to guess no, you wouldn't want that. You want to get the highest price you can. But you think someone who owns rental property should be limited by law as to how much s/he can make.
 
2014-01-22 09:46:37 PM  
Joe Blowme:

SigmaAlgebra: When white people left the cities for the suburbs, people complained about white flight, and now that white people are moving back into the cities, people complain about gentrification.

Ofcourse, eveything is whitey fault... did you learn nothing in school?


That's funny.  I don't recall learning that in school.

Maybe you have an overly sensitive vagina?
 
2014-01-22 09:52:54 PM  
Capitalism, how does it work?
 
2014-01-22 11:30:28 PM  

Phins: Loreweaver: Phins: Loreweaver: One solution is to put in place nationwide rules that prevent raising rent for existing tenants above the normal inflation rate, and rules that forbid a lease to be terminated if the property changes owners. Obviously, when the lease expires, the tenant would have to negotiate with the new owner, but if the former law is also in effect, the new owner could not raise rent more than 5% over the previous year's rent.

 HAHAHAHAHA. News flash: people buy rental properties to make money. Not as a charity or public service. We could call that the "we made existing rental property worthless and no one will buy them" law. And where are you going to rent when no one owns rental property?

Don't get me wrong. i am not against landlords turning a profit. But there is a big difference between owning property to turn a profit, and treating someone's home as yet another get-rich-quick scheme, like we saw with the housing bubble.

If you're not trying to maximize profit, you shouldn't be investing or owning a business. And if you're a property owner and you could be getting more in rent but just don't, you're a moron. You seriously believe that government should be able to limit the amount of profit a company can make? Or the amount of return on an investment? Do you also believe there should be a law that limits what you can sell your house for? You can only sell for 5% more than you paid? Or you can only sell for the same price you bought, adjusted for inflation? C'mon, be a nice guy, leave money on the table for a stranger. I'm going to guess no, you wouldn't want that. You want to get the highest price you can. But you think someone who owns rental property should be limited by law as to how much s/he can make.


I'm talking about limiting how much you can raise rent for existing tenants, not limiting how much you can sell a house for. The 2012 Olympics in London should have taught us what happens when landlords are allowed to raise rent at will. Longtime residents kicked out of their homes so the landlords could charge 5x or even 10x the normal rent to people staying in London for the duration of the Oylmpics.

The Gentrification going on here in the US is like that, but on a slower scale. Longtime residents forced from their homes, just so the landlords can make a quick buck.
 
2014-01-23 12:56:30 AM  
DUMBO Brooklyn laughs at your shenanigans.
 
2014-01-23 08:16:01 AM  

Enlightened Liberal: I'm all for gentrification since most people end up winners, except for renters who see their rent increase at a higher rate than their wages.

If you own a rental property and person A is willing and able to pay $2,000 a month and person B can only afford $800 a month, then sorry person B you need to find a new place to live. On the hand, low - income people shouldn't be completely screwed but I'm not sure what an equitable solution would be.


Rent control, and a $15 minimum wage with increases automatically indexed to inflation.  That's really the only equitable solution.
 
2014-01-23 05:14:26 PM  
Landlords don't need to justify rent increases. If they can get someone to pay a higher amount, thats all that matters. You have no 'right' to a certain rent rate, and it doesnt matter if you've been in a location for weeks or decades. Can't pay the new rent price? GTFO. It is not your home, you are just a renter.

You do not matter. your attachment, ideas of what is fair, whatever deal you had before--meaningless. The property belongs to the landlord, to do with as they see fit, and your wishes mean squat.
 
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