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(Huffington Post)   Today: "There will NEVER be a gay marriage at my wedding venue." Near Future: "This charming little wedding venue is priced to sell, after the previous owners were forced into bankruptcy"   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 117
    More: Obvious, Illinois, Ken Hutcherson, Friends of Lesbians, Societal attitudes toward homosexuality, Family Equality Council, Levi Strauss, Tom Emmer, Gay Days  
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8121 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jan 2014 at 8:33 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-01-22 08:43:11 AM  
10 votes:

Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.


I agree 100%. And I look forward to them being remembered in the not-so-distant future the same way we remember those valiant, rugged businessmen who said they would never serve blacks in their establishments.  Because we remember those people for taking a brave stand for private business, right?
2014-01-22 08:45:44 AM  
8 votes:
You know, I like these folks, people who will take a stand that is not only unpopular now, but will be judged as downright evil by future historians.  History needs its villains, and bravo for all these bigoted farks providing fodder for those thirty to forty years from now who need people to hold up as examples of real human evil. Much like the anti-civil rights folks of the 60s, and the Nazis before them, these folks are providing a valuable service, being history's douchenozzles.
2014-01-22 08:42:57 AM  
8 votes:

Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.


You're not a private business if you open your doors to the public. This has been the law for decades.
2014-01-22 08:43:21 AM  
7 votes:

kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.


"No coloreds"
2014-01-22 08:50:02 AM  
6 votes:
joness0154:

Well, there is the cake shop in Colorado forced to make cakes for same sex couples. It's not a stretch to assume it could happen to this guy.

No, they are not being forced to do anything.  They made a choice to sell wedding cakes.  That choice requires them to sell wedding cakes to everyone.  They have a very simple way to avoid making cakes for same sex couples.  Don't sell wedding cakes.  They chose to start a business that would put them in a position that requires them to violate their religious beliefs.  They can easily choose to leave that business as well.
2014-01-22 08:40:04 AM  
6 votes:
Just ignore the dumbass B&B owner and let him die with hate in his heart.  Hopefully, sooner than later.
2014-01-22 10:11:01 AM  
5 votes:

Dimensio: This person's discrimination is motivated by religious belief, therefore it must be allowed. Religious belief creates special justification otherwise not present for objectionable behaviour.


A picture of some guys whose discrimination is motivated by religious belief:
floridamemory.com
2014-01-22 11:20:50 AM  
4 votes:

DrPainMD: You obviously don't understand the progressive mindset. In the future, something that YOU do or say today is going to get you put in the same group as the B&B owner in this story. Because progressivism is never achieved; it keeps morphing into something else in order to have continuous outrage and something new to control. Jim Crow laws were brought to us by the progressives, so the B&B owner would be a model progressive 60 years ago. The movement will turn on you just as it turned on him.


www.quickmeme.com
2014-01-22 10:49:04 AM  
4 votes:

DrPainMD: Gay marriage: because everybody has the right to freedom of associationequal protection under the law.

Anti-discrimination laws: because people don't have the right to freedom of associationequal protection under the law.

In the immortal words of the great philosopher Townshend: "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."


Bigots still have the freedom to associate and spew their bigotry under the first amendment. But in the process of doing so, they cannot infringe on the right of others to equal protection. It's pretty simple.
2014-01-22 08:53:59 AM  
4 votes:
I would cancel my straight wedding if I heard this guy was into sending his clients bible verses concerning their private lives. That's beyond douchey.
DGS [TotalFark]
2014-01-22 08:40:48 AM  
4 votes:
If he wants to run his business that way, go for it. He has that freedom. Of course, others have the freedom to make it clear to other potential customers that the individual running that establishment is a bigot because god. That may dissuade others from wanting to give him business... just as it may make others want to give him business. Something something free market something.
2014-01-22 08:40:31 AM  
4 votes:

kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.


No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Just outing the bigots so they know who not to do business with.
2014-01-22 03:03:00 PM  
3 votes:

gerrymander: justtray: It's actually very simple. Discriminating against a protected class makes you a bigot. Not tolerating bigots does not make someone a bigot.

By that definition, everyone who complains about this B&B owner's assertion of religious rights is a bigot. Religion is the first protected class established in the US. It happened, literally, in the first clause in the First Amendment.


You need to stay in school, specifically civics class. Your right to free religion does not give you the right to deny others their rights.

This is literally elementary civics. The fact that you do not understand it only highlights your lack of education.

Once again, being intolerent of intolerence is not bigotry. That is not an opinion, but undisputable fact. I'm sorry if you are offended by this, but if so, I strongly suggest you stop being a bigot, as that is the only solution.

As a business, with a business license, you are not allowed to discriminate based on the protected classes. If you don't like that, don't operate a business. That is your choice as a free American.
2014-01-22 11:57:37 AM  
3 votes:

Gdalescrboz: my lip balm addiction: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Just outing the bigots so they know who not to do business with.

Why are they bigots? Really, why? They think gay marriage is wrong. Gays think being against gay marriage is wrong, does that make them a bigot? I don't see where being a bigot comes on to play here


It's actually very simple. Discriminating against a protected class makes you a bigot. Not tolerating bigots does not make someone a bigot.

Do you get it yet? Probably not. It's a little too simple for even your mind.
2014-01-22 11:21:10 AM  
3 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: Once they're done forcing you to marry homosexuals, they'll start forcing you to perform late term abortions. After that you'll be forced to operate the gas chambers in which they will put all the climate change deniers. And they won't even see the irony, because their brains don't work that way.


What a scary world you seem to live in. I feel sorry for you.
2014-01-22 10:46:22 AM  
3 votes:

DrPainMD: Dr. Whoof: You know, I like these folks, people who will take a stand that is not only unpopular now, but will be judged as downright evil by future historians.  History needs its villains, and bravo for all these bigoted farks providing fodder for those thirty to forty years from now who need people to hold up as examples of real human evil. Much like the anti-civil rights folks of the 60s, and the Nazis before them, these folks are providing a valuable service, being history's douchenozzles.

You obviously don't understand the progressive mindset. In the future, something that YOU do or say today is going to get you put in the same group as the B&B owner in this story. Because progressivism is never achieved; it keeps morphing into something else in order to have continuous outrage and something new to control. Jim Crow laws were brought to us by the progressives, so the B&B owner would be a model progressive 60 years ago. The movement will turn on you just as it turned on him.


Yes. That is exactly how "progressivism" works. Progress, on the other hand, just means that more people will have rights. If you are not discriminating against people, this will not be a problem. Of course, as the song goes, "Everyone's A Little Bit Racist." Everyone holds some prejudice they may not even be aware of. What good people do is look at their prejudice and deal with it. What bad people do is pretend that God wants them to be prejudice.
2014-01-22 09:58:55 AM  
3 votes:
He needs to remember that there are STRAIGHT allies of gays who MIGHT have considered getting married there. There goes any potential income. Now that this story has "gone viral" his business is all but (eventually) done. Have fun, asshole!
2014-01-22 09:15:25 AM  
3 votes:

Vagina Boob: Sheesh.  You guys were cool as the underdog.  Now you're a bunch of oversized assholes.


I know, right? I mean black people were cool until they insisted on being served at lunch counters.
2014-01-22 09:02:38 AM  
3 votes:

Dimensio: HenryFnord: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

"No coloreds"

This circumstance is different. This person's discrimination is motivated by religious belief, therefore it must be allowed. Religious belief creates special justification otherwise not present for objectionable behaviour.


What if you religious belief include "No coloreds"?

Fark religious beliefs.  Just because someone choices to believe in a sky wizard, doesn't mean they deserve special rights.
2014-01-22 08:58:46 AM  
3 votes:

Penoatle: Is there something similar to Godwin where instead of bringing up Nazis we bring up segregation?

"We have the right to refuse service" is different than "No Coloreds".


But "No Gays" is the same as "No Coloreds".

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/when-can-a-business-re fu se-service.html
2014-01-22 08:51:00 AM  
3 votes:

joness0154: Well, there is the cake shop in Colorado forced to make cakes for same sex couples. It's not a stretch to assume it could happen to this guy.

I'm as pro gay marriage as it comes, but disagree forcing these companies to do business if they don't want. I also don't understand why a couple would be adamant about giving that person business if they're adamantly against their lifestyle.


The same reason businesses were/are forced to server "coloreds". Or if you swapped out gay couple in this scenario and put an interracial couple in instead. If you can't deal with the public, in all it's color and fabulousness, don't operate a public establishment.
2014-01-22 08:44:07 AM  
3 votes:

qorkfiend: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything?


Well, there is the cake shop in Colorado forced to make cakes for same sex couples. It's not a stretch to assume it could happen to this guy.

I'm as pro gay marriage as it comes, but disagree forcing these companies to do business if they don't want. I also don't understand why a couple would be adamant about giving that person business if they're adamantly against their lifestyle.
2014-01-22 08:39:47 AM  
3 votes:
The only reason to refuse a gay wedding would be if one of the grooms was so persnickety the man-hours required would cut into the profit margin - otherwise? Cash in!
2014-01-22 08:38:15 AM  
3 votes:

kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.


Who's forcing anyone to do anything?
2014-01-22 08:37:04 AM  
3 votes:
I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.
2014-01-22 08:36:16 AM  
3 votes:
Yes, because libs won't be happy until we're all teh gay.
2014-01-22 04:41:21 PM  
2 votes:

mistrmind: ciberido: mistrmind: Last time I checked, when you order a sandwich at Chik-fil-a, they didn't ask you about your sexual orientation, they just served you a chicken sandwich.  in a nutshell, you have your panties in a bunch because the founder has an opinion about marriage and it doesn't fit into your definition of marriage.

No, the original issue with Chik-Fil-A wasn't just Cathy's personal opinions.  It was where the money from Chik-Fil-A's sales were going: specifically, every sandwich purchased meant money going to WinShape, an umbrella organization for numerous groups opposed to gay rights in the USA.  Also at one time Chik-Fil-A was contributing to efforts to pass a bill in Uganda to make homosexuality a capital crime.

Now, that may no longer be the case: later news reports indicate Chik-Fil-A has cut ties with some of those organizations and backed down on some of their anti-gay rhetoric.  But at the time, there was a very clear financial connection between Chik-Fil-A  and efforts to have gay people executed for homosexuality, among other things.

Also, there were, and probably still are, other issues with Chik-Fil-A such as firing employees for not being Christian (or for being female).  But let's just stick to the efforts to kill gay people, shall we?

You should know this before mouthing off: it makes you look either dishonest or stupid to ignore such pertinent facts.

Local Chick-fil-a has servers who are female (surprise surprise) and, get this, they don't ask if you are a homosexual before serving your a chicken sandwich, which would signify that perhaps they don't really care who you are, just as long as you are buying a chicken sandwich.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


Ok, you're not being dishonest.  You really ARE this stupid.
2014-01-22 02:30:42 PM  
2 votes:

mistrmind: There is a different between voting with your wallet and collectively seeking out to destroy a business.   Two things the LBGTs like to do.


OMG, the stupid it burns.

FTFA: This isn't the first time Walder has spoken out against same-sex marriage. In 2011, Todd and Mark Wathen reportedly filed a civil rights complaint against Walder's business after he refused to host a ceremony for their civil union. As Joe. My. God. pointed out, the resolution of that complaint is still pending.

Jim Walder, owner of the TimberCreek Bed & Breakfast near Paxton, Ill., told the Post-Gazette that he will not permit LGBT couples to tie the knot at his venue even though same-sex marriage will be legally recognized in the state come June.


It was the B&B owner that went to the press.
2014-01-22 11:45:32 AM  
2 votes:

kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.


The same way white people in the 60s didn't understand why the black people could force businesses to let them sit at the lunch counter.
2014-01-22 11:18:15 AM  
2 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: Yes, because libs won't be happy until we're all teh gay.


t1.gstatic.com

/ Yes, not discriminating against someone is EXACTLY the same as making you be like them.
// Exactly. The. Same.
2014-01-22 10:38:19 AM  
2 votes:

DrPainMD: Dr. Whoof: You know, I like these folks, people who will take a stand that is not only unpopular now, but will be judged as downright evil by future historians.  History needs its villains, and bravo for all these bigoted farks providing fodder for those thirty to forty years from now who need people to hold up as examples of real human evil. Much like the anti-civil rights folks of the 60s, and the Nazis before them, these folks are providing a valuable service, being history's douchenozzles.

You obviously don't understand the progressive mindset. In the future, something that YOU do or say today is going to get you put in the same group as the B&B owner in this story. Because progressivism is never achieved; it keeps morphing into something else in order to have continuous outrage and something new to control. Jim Crow laws were brought to us by the progressives, so the B&B owner would be a model progressive 60 years ago. The movement will turn on you just as it turned on him.


i.imgur.com
2014-01-22 10:37:34 AM  
2 votes:

ursomniac: Dimensio: HenryFnord: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

"No coloreds"

This circumstance is different. This person's discrimination is motivated by religious belief, therefore it must be allowed. Religious belief creates special justification otherwise not present for objectionable behaviour.

False.

This person's CLAIM is that it's motivated by religious belief, yet they seem to ONLY APPLY said belief when it comes to same-sex couples.

Otherwise, they'd refuse service to anyone who didn't share their religious beliefs: no Jews, no Muslims, no atheists, no pagans, no DIVORCED people, and so on.

The "justification" you refer to applies to not being discriminated because of your OWN religious affiliation; if you're Hindu the B&B can't deny you service because you're a Hindu.  It's not a club you can use to conveniently exclude a section of the general population from services you provide to the general population.   Of course this doesn't apply to religious organizations;  a Catholic church doesn't have to host a Hindu wedding.   But this B&B isn't a church - it just wants to be a B&B that conveniently only ever has heterosexuals present.

Plus if you gave your "justification" ANY amount of thought, you'd realize it's just a smokescreen: let's use an obvious example:

A: Evangelical B&B owner claims he has the right to deny service if it would "violate his beliefs"
B: Potential client is a Muslim who will want to pray in his rented room

Whose religious beliefs trump whose?  If A wins, then it's an obvious discrimination of B on the basis of religion which is a violation of the 14th Amendment.   If B wins, then it's (by your logic) discrimination of A on the basis of religion which is a violation of the 14th Amendment.

... at which point the universe becomes lawyers all the wa ...


So how do you resolve this paradox? There's only one solution, which is that the owner has absolute discretion. Gays, muslims etc are welcome to ban Chrisitans from their homes too. The whole "open to the public" thing is just nonsense perpetrated by thinly veiled authoritarianists.
2014-01-22 10:37:25 AM  
2 votes:
To everyone clutching their pearls and crying, "Smear campaign!" How, exactly, is it a smear campaign to say what really happened to you? Is anything this couple is saying untrue? Are they exaggerating? Telling the truth is not a smear campaign. Why do you want to take away someone's free speech?

The fact is that this business owner has judged that his market will not punish him for his actions. He may be right. He may be wrong. But simply telling people about the business owner's actions? That is not infringing on anyone's rights. The only infringement of rights are from the people who want to enforce silence.
2014-01-22 10:20:10 AM  
2 votes:

Gdalescrboz: Nacc: joness0154: qorkfiend: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything?

Well, there is the cake shop in Colorado forced to make cakes for same sex couples. It's not a stretch to assume it could happen to this guy.

I'm as pro gay marriage as it comes, but disagree forcing these companies to do business if they don't want. I also don't understand why a couple would be adamant about giving that person business if they're adamantly against their lifestyle.

Change the source of this article to it being about black people or an interracial couple. Your defense of said bigotry still fits. Why should those racists have to do business with a couple of darkies or darkie apologists....

It's because it's wrong to discriminate. If you are a bigot you will be found and painted as the bigot you are. People should know you're a bigot so they can vote with their wallet. You have a right to be a bigot and we have a right to know so we can refuse to patronize.

This is truly amazing. A guy gets sued for turning down a gay marriage,(never intended to make a spectacle of it) and you think it's ok...no, your right...nay, your duty, to conduct a smear campaign against him and destroy his life. Yet at the same time you bleeding heart liberals are the first to line up to crucify a 12 year old kid for any sleight that can be twisted in to bullying. The stupidity the left displays in matters pertaining to an individuals right to run his business how he wants without it turning in to a witch hunt is astounding. It's like watching Nancy Grace; pure, blind, unwarranted hate that you can't put in to a rational argument. So much so that's it's to the point that deep down inside, you have to know its absurd, you have to know that you are a hypocritical douche but you are afr ...


You long winded and insane ramblings aside, discrimination is still morally wrong. Your government made it illegal as well a long time ago.

This isn't difficult to understand. It's a very simple statement.  Discrimination is wrong.
2014-01-22 10:19:09 AM  
2 votes:

Dr. Whoof: You know, I like these folks, people who will take a stand that is not only unpopular now, but will be judged as downright evil by future historians.  History needs its villains, and bravo for all these bigoted farks providing fodder for those thirty to forty years from now who need people to hold up as examples of real human evil. Much like the anti-civil rights folks of the 60s, and the Nazis before them, these folks are providing a valuable service, being history's douchenozzles.


You obviously don't understand the progressive mindset. In the future, something that YOU do or say today is going to get you put in the same group as the B&B owner in this story. Because progressivism is never achieved; it keeps morphing into something else in order to have continuous outrage and something new to control. Jim Crow laws were brought to us by the progressives, so the B&B owner would be a model progressive 60 years ago. The movement will turn on you just as it turned on him.
2014-01-22 10:07:16 AM  
2 votes:

Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.


global3.memecdn.com
2014-01-22 09:59:11 AM  
2 votes:

Close2TheEdge: whatsupchuck: Gay couples have a right to equal access to public accommodations.  Private business owners have the right to be homophobic dickheads.  When push comes to shove in a court action to resolve this conflict, guess who almost always wins?

Hint:  There has to be a legitimate business interest for the refusal of service.

I'm not sure that's true.  The basic problem here is that while gay marriage may be legal, anti-discrimination laws against LGBT individuals are not on the books.  The business owner can't overtly discriminate and deny service based on race like putting up a "No Coloreds" sign.  But he can refuse service to gay couples, and he's legally ok to do so.  Now, what you hope is that fair minded people use the power of moral outrage to either change this guy's position or drive him out of business, but if Chick-Fil-A is any example, that won't happen.

By the way, I'm completely in favor of protests, and using every other legal means to drive him out of business.  If you are going to take that strident a stand, you better be prepared to accept and deal with the fallout as a result.


There are those of us who consider that the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment covers this. It was intended to protect skin color, though it doesn't explicitly say that, so it's easy for me to say it covers any case of who/what a person is, not just the color of their skin.

And that's the root of the problem. These religious nuts won't let go of believing that homosexuality is a choice.
2014-01-22 09:59:01 AM  
2 votes:

joness0154: ElwoodCuse: I don't want the health inspector in my restaurant. If people get sick eating my food, they'll just eat somewhere else and I'll go out of business, so the free market works.

Are you OK with that restaurant being able to ban kids under the age of X?

Why is age discrimination by the business owner OK today but its not OK for a business owner to discriminate based on sexual orientation?


Age is not an immutable characteristic, nor is it one exclusive to a minority - everyone has been young and everyone will be old. Furthermore, there has not been a history of invidious discrimination targeted at people based on their age. Finally, age is reasonably related to someone's ability to participate in society. Accordingly, age is not even slightly suspect as a classification, and it is fine for a business owner to say "no children".
2014-01-22 09:51:13 AM  
2 votes:

mistrmind: DeaH: flup: He's gonna learn the lesson ChickFilA learned. Their business has dwindled to nearly nothing since they publicly adopted their anti-gay stance.

Yes, Chik-fil-a learned they could make a tidy sum by serving cheap sandwiches to bigots who think their bigotry is religion. But B&Bs tend to cost a good bit more than a chicken sandwich. The tend to cost more than a hotel room in the area. The clientele at a B&B tend to like things like frilly or flowery rooms, antique furniture, lots of flowers, and brunch, so we're not talking about couples made up of stereotypically manly men and their obedient wives as a rule. In my experience, it's usually the wife who chooses the B&B, not the husband. And women tend to be less freaked out by gay people unless they are married to closet cases.

Of course, gay people are not a protected class the way black people are, so this man is within his legal rights to be a dick. And gay people are within their legal rights to let everyone know that the person who runs this B&B is a dick. If word gets out that the "lovely" B&B is administered by a hater, his may have no effect on his business. But I am willing to bet that it might.

Last time I checked, when you order a sandwich at Chik-fil-a, they didn't ask you about your sexual orientation, they just served you a chicken sandwich.  in a nutshell, you have your panties in a bunch because the founder has an opinion about marriage and it doesn't fit into your definition of marriage.  So, the vindictive people you are go out and try to crush the company because of someone's opinion.  Nice way to win friends and influence people, BTW.   Keep preaching that diversity and tolerance.


I think you may be confusing your bunched panties with mine. The fact is that people lined up, in a show of support of the business owner's anti-gay activities, to buy Chik-fil-A sandwiches. But a sandwich doesn't cost a lot of money. B&Bs tend to be both expensive and remarkably fussy. The clientele they attract tend to be more gay-friendly. If gay people tell gay friendly people that someone is being dickish toward them, their friends do not take it well. Is they owner free to act in a dickish manner? Certainly. Is the free market free to make decisions based on information about the business owner? Of course.

What do you want? Should the gay people involved in this just silently accept that they are being treated as lesser humans? Should their free speech be infringed upon? Should they have to tolerate being treated that way in silence? Keep preaching that freedom, brother.
2014-01-22 09:51:00 AM  
2 votes:

joness0154: Semantic Warrior: Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

You might as well be saying that private business should be able to be racist.
People said the same things about mixed race marriages only a few decades ago, that they were ungodly abominations that would invoke the wrath of god upon the entire nation. The "private business, private rules" argument suggests you believe a business owner should be allowed to refuse to do any business with couples whose skin pigmentation doesn't match identically.  Should he be allowed to refuse to do any business with a couple where one's Jewish and one's Irish?

Yes, if that's their prerogative.  Just as we are allowed to vote with our wallets and visit other businesses that will provide services to anyone.


In a city, this makes (some) sense, b/c there are dozens of options for everything you need.  But in the boonies, that's not the case.  If you're the only gay Eskimo in your tribe, and your spear-maker is a homophobe, where the fark do you get your spears?   When you do business with the public, you do business with  all the public, even the parts you don't like, unless there's a compelling business interest, such as a bar prohibiting anyone under 18, or 21.  Fortunately, the law agrees, for the most part.
2014-01-22 09:47:22 AM  
2 votes:

doubled99: Wow. For 5 percent or less of the populace, they sure do carry some weight.


I wasn't aware that the percent of American citizens who are personally opposed to any form of prejudice was only 5%.
2014-01-22 09:36:23 AM  
2 votes:

DeaH: flup: He's gonna learn the lesson ChickFilA learned. Their business has dwindled to nearly nothing since they publicly adopted their anti-gay stance.

Yes, Chik-fil-a learned they could make a tidy sum by serving cheap sandwiches to bigots who think their bigotry is religion. But B&Bs tend to cost a good bit more than a chicken sandwich. The tend to cost more than a hotel room in the area. The clientele at a B&B tend to like things like frilly or flowery rooms, antique furniture, lots of flowers, and brunch, so we're not talking about couples made up of stereotypically manly men and their obedient wives as a rule. In my experience, it's usually the wife who chooses the B&B, not the husband. And women tend to be less freaked out by gay people unless they are married to closet cases.

Of course, gay people are not a protected class the way black people are, so this man is within his legal rights to be a dick. And gay people are within their legal rights to let everyone know that the person who runs this B&B is a dick. If word gets out that the "lovely" B&B is administered by a hater, his may have no effect on his business. But I am willing to bet that it might.


Last time I checked, when you order a sandwich at Chik-fil-a, they didn't ask you about your sexual orientation, they just served you a chicken sandwich.  in a nutshell, you have your panties in a bunch because the founder has an opinion about marriage and it doesn't fit into your definition of marriage.  So, the vindictive people you are go out and try to crush the company because of someone's opinion.  Nice way to win friends and influence people, BTW.   Keep preaching that diversity and tolerance.
2014-01-22 09:22:48 AM  
2 votes:

Dimensio: HenryFnord: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

"No coloreds"

This circumstance is different. This person's discrimination is motivated by religious belief, therefore it must be allowed. Religious belief creates special justification otherwise not present for objectionable behaviour.


False.

This person's CLAIM is that it's motivated by religious belief, yet they seem to ONLY APPLY said belief when it comes to same-sex couples.

Otherwise, they'd refuse service to anyone who didn't share their religious beliefs: no Jews, no Muslims, no atheists, no pagans, no DIVORCED people, and so on.

The "justification" you refer to applies to not being discriminated because of your OWN religious affiliation; if you're Hindu the B&B can't deny you service because you're a Hindu.  It's not a club you can use to conveniently exclude a section of the general population from services you provide to the general population.   Of course this doesn't apply to religious organizations;  a Catholic church doesn't have to host a Hindu wedding.   But this B&B isn't a church - it just wants to be a B&B that conveniently only ever has heterosexuals present.

Plus if you gave your "justification" ANY amount of thought, you'd realize it's just a smokescreen: let's use an obvious example:

A: Evangelical B&B owner claims he has the right to deny service if it would "violate his beliefs"
B: Potential client is a Muslim who will want to pray in his rented room

Whose religious beliefs trump whose?  If A wins, then it's an obvious discrimination of B on the basis of religion which is a violation of the 14th Amendment.   If B wins, then it's (by your logic) discrimination of A on the basis of religion which is a violation of the 14th Amendment.

... at which point the universe becomes lawyers all the way down.
2014-01-22 09:12:15 AM  
2 votes:

kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.


You can't.  But The Free MarketTM can force people to keep their ugly and hateful thoughts to themselves.
2014-01-22 09:12:04 AM  
2 votes:

Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.


Because:

karani.files.wordpress.com

/although if you tell them it's the same, you better have a bunker full of popcorn ready
2014-01-22 09:08:53 AM  
2 votes:
Gay couples have a right to equal access to public accommodations.  Private business owners have the right to be homophobic dickheads.  When push comes to shove in a court action to resolve this conflict, guess who almost always wins?

Hint:  There has to be a legitimate business interest for the refusal of service.
2014-01-22 09:02:59 AM  
2 votes:
FTA (in a letter he wrote to some gay people): "It's not too late to change your behavior."

They always focus on the behavior. Love the sinner, hate the sin. It's the acting it out part they dwell on, not the impulses or urges or preference or identity, but the actual physical act of gay sex they can't seem to stop thinking about.
2014-01-22 08:57:27 AM  
2 votes:

gshepnyc: Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.

I agree 100%. And I look forward to them being remembered in the not-so-distant future the same way we remember those valiant, rugged businessmen who said they would never serve blacks in their establishments.  Because we remember those people for taking a brave stand for private business, right?


Rand Paul does. One of his beefs with civil rights is that business people have to serve other races even if they don't want to.
2014-01-22 08:57:15 AM  
2 votes:
Sheesh.  You guys were cool as the underdog.  Now you're a bunch of oversized assholes.
2014-01-22 08:56:06 AM  
2 votes:
Preemptively declining people's money is always a sound business strategy.

But, then, I suppose you can never underestimate the intelligence of your average homophobe.

belome: 40% of marriages are now LGBT????

I think someone really pulled a stat out of their backcrack.


Or maybe the recent spate of rulings and votes to allow it have created a temporary bubble as people who have wanted to get married for years but were unable rushed to complete the ceremonies.
2014-01-22 08:52:57 AM  
2 votes:

rikkitikkitavi: I need another misogynist boobie thread. Please, I beg of you.


No one is going to submit that for you, so you'd better get busy.  Meanwhile we'll stay busy here, making fun of this clueless dickhead.
DGS [TotalFark]
2014-01-22 08:50:27 AM  
2 votes:

Penoatle: Again though, I could care less.


How much less? Sounds like you do care.
2014-01-22 08:50:24 AM  
2 votes:
40% of marriages are now LGBT????

I think someone really pulled a stat out of their backcrack.
2014-01-22 08:48:10 AM  
2 votes:
Seriously? Another one of these threads? FARK has become the rally point for the LGBT community of late. There truly is no hate like the oppressed with a enough to finance a lawsuit.

I need another misogynist boobie thread. Please, I beg of you.
2014-01-22 08:41:15 AM  
2 votes:
If you don't want to host a gay wedding, then simply refuse. Don't give reasons. Racism and discrimination is a-ok as long as you don't say it is because of racism/discrimination.

Also, just how big is the LGBT community in that town?
2014-01-22 08:40:31 AM  
2 votes:
Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.
2014-01-22 08:39:40 AM  
2 votes:
Probably not a good business decision for a bed & breakfast to offend 40% your clientele.

/made up that number, but I'm close
2014-01-23 12:59:38 PM  
1 votes:

flup: Dan Cathy is bankrupt.


Citation please?
2014-01-23 12:57:03 PM  
1 votes:

InterruptingQuirk: xria: InterruptingQuirk: flup: He's gonna learn the lesson ChickFilA learned. Their business has dwindled to nearly nothing since they publicly adopted their anti-gay stance.

I had to look into such a grand claim. According to Forbes, Dan Cathy went from #89 in 2012 on the Forbes 400 to #68 in 2013. I don't want to get into that whole mess. But I don't think that if his business had "dwindled to nearly nothing", as you say, he would have jumped 21 spots on the Forbes 400.

Try not to replace reality with your wishes.

I was assuming he was being sarcastic...

I need a slashie to know.


I wasn't being sarcastic. Forbes magazine is wrong. Chick-Fil-A restaurants are closing left and right, when you go into one they are never crowded, and Dan Cathy is bankrupt.

You can't believe everything you read, I'm afraid.
2014-01-23 12:24:12 PM  
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: [img.fark.net image 434x71]


And now, of course, I have to favorite myself as that.
2014-01-22 07:49:21 PM  
1 votes:

DrPainMD: And I get it. I understand that most people don't want rights and don't want freedom. I get it.


Oh, bless your heart. I know you were born special and your mama and daddy raised you just as best as they could.
2014-01-22 07:07:23 PM  
1 votes:

DrPainMD: DeaH: DrPainMD: Gay marriage: because everybody has the right to freedom of association.

Anti-discrimination laws: because people don't have the right to freedom of association.

In the immortal words of the great philosopher Townshend: "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Is this B&B a private club? If so, then it has the right to limit who it lets in under the law. A club is a lot like a private home. Your free to invite or not invite anyone you want. Is the B&B open to the public? Well, that's a different story.

It is private property. Obviously, it's not open to the public, if certain people are not allowed. The owner has the right to allow or not allow anybody he/she wants; whether or not it's a private club is irrelevant. It's private property.

That is, unless, you think there should be a gag order on the gay couple that would take away their free speech. Is that what your saying? People should not be allowed to talk about the way a business treats them or take legal action that is available to them? Well, it sure looks like the only one want to infringe on freedom is you.

Now you're just babbling.


Really, your trying to say that privately owned Walmart isn't opened to the public? Restaurants are often privately owned, yet these, too, are opened to the public. A B&B is open to the public. That is the nature of the business it does. You seem to have a hard time understanding business, markets, and, well, everything.

But it is cute the way you try to label accurate extrapolations of your misunderstanding as babble. It still won't work as cover for your trying to infringe on people's First Amendment rights or their access to legal recourse. But, hey, cute counts for something. Yes, it does! It weally, weally does!
2014-01-22 06:10:17 PM  
1 votes:
s3.amazonaws.com
2014-01-22 05:17:07 PM  
1 votes:

gerrymander: justtray: You need to stay in school, specifically civics class. Your right to free religion does not give you the right to deny others their rights.

This is literally elementary civics. The fact that you do not understand it only highlights your lack of education.

^^^
Found the bigot.


You got me. I have an irrational hatred of stupid people. I just can't help but let ignorance and bad logic go unchecked. But I get by, one day at a time.
2014-01-22 04:50:38 PM  
1 votes:

Satanic_Hamster: tinfoil-hat maggie: mistrmind: There is a different between voting with your wallet and collectively seeking out to destroy a business.   Two things the LBGTs like to do.

OMG, the stupid it burns.

FTFA: This isn't the first time Walder has spoken out against same-sex marriage. In 2011, Todd and Mark Wathen reportedly filed a civil rights complaint against Walder's business after he refused to host a ceremony for their civil union. As Joe. My. God. pointed out, the resolution of that complaint is still pending.

Jim Walder, owner of the TimberCreek Bed & Breakfast near Paxton, Ill., told the Post-Gazette that he will not permit LGBT couples to tie the knot at his venue even though same-sex marriage will be legally recognized in the state come June.

It was the B&B owner that went to the press.

Worse/better:
He did this AFTER spamming the gay couple at home with Bible verses asking that they repent their sins to avoid HELL.


Yep but somehow it's the couple that are being AW's in all this.Sure...
2014-01-22 03:52:44 PM  
1 votes:

gerrymander: justtray: It's actually very simple. Discriminating against a protected class makes you a bigot. Not tolerating bigots does not make someone a bigot.

By that definition, everyone who complains about this B&B owner's assertion of religious rights is a bigot. Religion is the first protected class established in the US. It happened, literally, in the first clause in the First Amendment.


Nobody is complaining about him because of his religion.
They're complaining about him because of his douche-baggy actions.
2014-01-22 03:03:18 PM  
1 votes:

mistrmind: There is a different between voting with your wallet and collectively seeking out to destroy a business. Two things the LBGTs like to do.


How, exactly, did the LGBT seek to destroy Chik-fil-A? Didn't just let people know what the owner was doing with the money they spent there?

And, please, list other businesses that the LGBT community is seeking to destroy. The level of difficulty is that there has to be some other method than advertising the owner's actions or by taking legal action where the owner is in clear opposition to the law.
2014-01-22 03:03:13 PM  
1 votes:

mistrmind: Egoy3k: mistrmind: There is a different between voting with your wallet and collectively seeking out to destroy a business.   Two things the LBGTs like to do.

Yeah there is a difference, one is more effective.  Either way nobody is coercing you or I into avoiding these businesses they are simply putting the facts out there.  We are the ones who decide.  I shop at all kinds of places that people have called for a boycott of at one time or another.  Lots of people went to Chick-Fil-A during the boycott.  Nobody forced anyone to do anything.

Keep telling yourself that and maybe it'll be true.


Who is forcing you to not buy chicken sandwiches?
2014-01-22 02:57:43 PM  
1 votes:

joness0154: Nogale: joness0154: qorkfiend: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything?

Well, there is the cake shop in Colorado forced to make cakes for same sex couples. It's not a stretch to assume it could happen to this guy.

I'm as pro gay marriage as it comes, but disagree forcing these companies to do business if they don't want. I also don't understand why a couple would be adamant about giving that person business if they're adamantly against their lifestyle.

They are free to refuse to do business with gay couples. Other customers are free to take their business elsewhere. Generally speaking, refusing paying customers for any reason is not a good business strategy.

Agreed 100%


So you both would like to repeal the Civil Rights Act. I see. Well, there are certain justices on the supreme court who would agree with you.

Those of us who have read the history know  that your "so reasonable" stance is wrong and cannot work. It didn't work before the Civil Rights Act and it especially won't work now that there are specific laws *against* it in a lot of places. It would be nice not to have to argue settled law and settled principles with random people just because they think history began the day they were born.

If you operate a business of public accommodation you cannot discriminate against any protected class, period. End of story.
2014-01-22 02:54:05 PM  
1 votes:

justtray: It's actually very simple. Discriminating against a protected class makes you a bigot. Not tolerating bigots does not make someone a bigot.


By that definition, everyone who complains about this B&B owner's assertion of religious rights is a bigot. Religion is the first protected class established in the US. It happened, literally, in the first clause in the First Amendment.
2014-01-22 02:12:32 PM  
1 votes:

mistrmind: DeaH: mistrmind: ciberido: mistrmind: Last time I checked, when you order a sandwich at Chik-fil-a, they didn't ask you about your sexual orientation, they just served you a chicken sandwich.  in a nutshell, you have your panties in a bunch because the founder has an opinion about marriage and it doesn't fit into your definition of marriage.

No, the original issue with Chik-Fil-A wasn't just Cathy's personal opinions.  It was where the money from Chik-Fil-A's sales were going: specifically, every sandwich purchased meant money going to WinShape, an umbrella organization for numerous groups opposed to gay rights in the USA.  Also at one time Chik-Fil-A was contributing to efforts to pass a bill in Uganda to make homosexuality a capital crime.

Now, that may no longer be the case: later news reports indicate Chik-Fil-A has cut ties with some of those organizations and backed down on some of their anti-gay rhetoric.  But at the time, there was a very clear financial connection between Chik-Fil-A  and efforts to have gay people executed for homosexuality, among other things.

Also, there were, and probably still are, other issues with Chik-Fil-A such as firing employees for not being Christian (or for being female).  But let's just stick to the efforts to kill gay people, shall we?

You should know this before mouthing off: it makes you look either dishonest or stupid to ignore such pertinent facts.

Local Chick-fil-a has servers who are female (surprise surprise) and, get this, they don't ask if you are a homosexual before serving your a chicken sandwich, which would signify that perhaps they don't really care who you are, just as long as you are buying a chicken sandwich.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

So, what you're saying is that Chik-fil-A, unlike the B&B, will not deny service to gay people?

Looks that way, doesn't it.  Yet the LBGT community got their collective panties in a bunch over another person's beliefs. actions.


Spending money is an action.
2014-01-22 01:20:21 PM  
1 votes:

mistrmind: ciberido: mistrmind: Last time I checked, when you order a sandwich at Chik-fil-a, they didn't ask you about your sexual orientation, they just served you a chicken sandwich.  in a nutshell, you have your panties in a bunch because the founder has an opinion about marriage and it doesn't fit into your definition of marriage.

No, the original issue with Chik-Fil-A wasn't just Cathy's personal opinions.  It was where the money from Chik-Fil-A's sales were going: specifically, every sandwich purchased meant money going to WinShape, an umbrella organization for numerous groups opposed to gay rights in the USA.  Also at one time Chik-Fil-A was contributing to efforts to pass a bill in Uganda to make homosexuality a capital crime.

Now, that may no longer be the case: later news reports indicate Chik-Fil-A has cut ties with some of those organizations and backed down on some of their anti-gay rhetoric.  But at the time, there was a very clear financial connection between Chik-Fil-A  and efforts to have gay people executed for homosexuality, among other things.

Also, there were, and probably still are, other issues with Chik-Fil-A such as firing employees for not being Christian (or for being female).  But let's just stick to the efforts to kill gay people, shall we?

You should know this before mouthing off: it makes you look either dishonest or stupid to ignore such pertinent facts.

Local Chick-fil-a has servers who are female (surprise surprise) and, get this, they don't ask if you are a homosexual before serving your a chicken sandwich, which would signify that perhaps they don't really care who you are, just as long as you are buying a chicken sandwich.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


It's almost as if you can have an opinion about a company based on something other than whether they server you or not.
2014-01-22 12:41:36 PM  
1 votes:

mistrmind: Last time I checked, when you order a sandwich at Chik-fil-a, they didn't ask you about your sexual orientation, they just served you a chicken sandwich.  in a nutshell, you have your panties in a bunch because the founder has an opinion about marriage and it doesn't fit into your definition of marriage.


No, the original issue with Chik-Fil-A wasn't just Cathy's personal opinions.  It was where the money from Chik-Fil-A's sales were going: specifically, every sandwich purchased meant money going to WinShape, an umbrella organization for numerous groups opposed to gay rights in the USA.  Also at one time Chik-Fil-A was contributing to efforts to pass a bill in Uganda to make homosexuality a capital crime.

Now, that may no longer be the case: later news reports indicate Chik-Fil-A has cut ties with some of those organizations and backed down on some of their anti-gay rhetoric.  But at the time, there was a very clear financial connection between Chik-Fil-A  and efforts to have gay people executed for homosexuality, among other things.

Also, there were, and probably still are, other issues with Chik-Fil-A such as firing employees for not being Christian (or for being female).  But let's just stick to the efforts to kill gay people, shall we?

You should know this before mouthing off: it makes you look either dishonest or stupid to ignore such pertinent facts.
2014-01-22 12:25:19 PM  
1 votes:

RaceBoatDriver: But in all fairness, the civil rights movement didn't have pretend crimes (Joe Williams, Ashley Todd) and faked rapes (Patricia Miller, Morgan Triplett) or even real crimes (Tastes Like Hate).  The Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. also embraced the bible, something the gay community likes to reject.


Because the bible is really germane to the discussion of laws in a secular nation?

 Also he was a great American, a visionary leader, an amazing speaker and only an average christian.
2014-01-22 12:19:46 PM  
1 votes:

justtray: DrPainMD: Gay marriage: because everybody has the right to freedom of association.

Anti-discrimination laws: because people don't have the right to freedom of association.

In the immortal words of the great philosopher Townshend: "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

God you're dumb. Didn't someone just yesterday already correct you on your false understanding of freedom of association? And you're already back today repeating the same lies as if it's groundhogs day and you can't remember being corrected.

Plonk.


One trick ponies. Just can't accept that some states have passed laws that say a public business can't discriminate against people they find icky.
2014-01-22 12:11:52 PM  
1 votes:
 

DrPainMD: Gay marriage: because everybody has the right to freedom of association.

Anti-discrimination laws: because people don't have the right to freedom of association.

In the immortal words of the great philosopher Townshend: "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."


God you're dumb. Didn't someone just yesterday already correct you on your false understanding of freedom of association? And you're already back today repeating the same lies as if it's groundhogs day and you can't remember being corrected.

Plonk.
2014-01-22 11:50:45 AM  
1 votes:

DeaH: Vagina Boob: Sheesh.  You guys were cool as the underdog.  Now you're a bunch of oversized assholes.

I know, right? I mean black people were cool until they insisted on being served at lunch counters.


But in all fairness, the civil rights movement didn't have pretend crimes (Joe Williams, Ashley Todd) and faked rapes (Patricia Miller, Morgan Triplett) or even real crimes (Tastes Like Hate).  The Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. also embraced the bible, something the gay community likes to reject.

The Civil Rights Movement just had more class and respect, definitive goals.  Meanwhile, the LGBT movement is all over the map.  It's like they're just chasing down pockets of conservatism.  The LGBT needs a charismatic leader to rope the bullshiat in.  Target gay marriage maybe?  Skip the waffle fries?


media-3.web.britannica.com

johnnycirucci.com
2014-01-22 11:49:06 AM  
1 votes:

joness0154: qorkfiend: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything?

Well, there is the cake shop in Colorado forced to make cakes for same sex couples. It's not a stretch to assume it could happen to this guy.

I'm as pro gay marriage as it comes, but disagree forcing these companies to do business if they don't want. I also don't understand why a couple would be adamant about giving that person business if they're adamantly against their lifestyle.


It isn't about going to any particular business, it's about saying it isn't permissible for public businesses to say things like "no blacks" "no gays" "no irish" "no jews" or whatever. A place of public accommodation, like a hotel doesn't get to just wing it however they want when it comes to discrimination.
2014-01-22 11:46:16 AM  
1 votes:

ciberido: Penoatle: "We have the right to refuse service" is different than "No Coloreds".

I have to admit I'm curious what wild flights of fancy has lead you to this particular conclusion.  How exactly are they different?


If those two things are the same, then business owners could be prevented from refusing service to anyone for any reason, on the basis that it is (or might be) discrimination. At that point, the decision about who does business with whom is being taken by government, not individuals.

It's just another route towards stateism and the centralization of power.
2014-01-22 11:45:35 AM  
1 votes:

InterruptingQuirk: ciberido: THE GREAT NAME: Yes, because libs won't be happy until we're all teh gay.


Yes.  It's part of our sinister plan to fight global warming by turning everyone gay and thus causing the human population to dwindle.  But shhh!  Don't tell anyone!  It's a secret.

/ Came for the impotent homophobic poutrage, and I can see this thread is going to deliver.

// People at the grocery store are starting to wonder why I'm buying so much popcorn.

Would you like to see where some of this paranoia started?


img.fark.net
It's never a good idea for men to control women's reproductive abilities, no matter the politics of the man. One side seems to have learned this lesson.
2014-01-22 11:39:08 AM  
1 votes:

Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?


Private business providing a public accommodation.  We went over this in the 1960s.  Why is this so hard to understand?
2014-01-22 11:32:19 AM  
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: Yes, because libs won't be happy until we're all teh gay.



Yes.  It's part of our sinister plan to fight global warming by turning everyone gay and thus causing the human population to dwindle.  But shhh!  Don't tell anyone!  It's a secret.

/ Came for the impotent homophobic poutrage, and I can see this thread is going to deliver.

// People at the grocery store are starting to wonder why I'm buying so much popcorn.
2014-01-22 11:21:07 AM  
1 votes:

DrPainMD: Dr. Whoof: You know, I like these folks, people who will take a stand that is not only unpopular now, but will be judged as downright evil by future historians.  History needs its villains, and bravo for all these bigoted farks providing fodder for those thirty to forty years from now who need people to hold up as examples of real human evil. Much like the anti-civil rights folks of the 60s, and the Nazis before them, these folks are providing a valuable service, being history's douchenozzles.

You obviously don't understand the progressive mindset. In the future, something that YOU do or say today is going to get you put in the same group as the B&B owner in this story. Because progressivism is never achieved; it keeps morphing into something else in order to have continuous outrage and something new to control. Jim Crow laws were brought to us by the progressives, so the B&B owner would be a model progressive 60 years ago. The movement will turn on you just as it turned on him.


This is very true and I will add that things like anti-semitism, eugenics and racial supremicism *were* the progressive ideas of their day. Progressives only morphed toward other causes *after* the true consequences of those ideas became known. Just like progressives used to insist that Soviet Russia was a workable alternative to western hegemony *right up to* when the Berlin wall came down. Soon, when the foolishness of climate alarmism becomes unavoidable, those progressives will go and find something else to latch on to. As Dr Pain points out, Dr Whoof might fall foul of it. Indeed, for this reason, most progressives are miserable during the latter part of their lives.
2014-01-22 10:54:41 AM  
1 votes:

DrPainMD: Gay marriage: because everybody has the right to freedom of association.

Anti-discrimination laws: because people don't have the right to freedom of association.

In the immortal words of the great philosopher Townshend: "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."


Is this B&B a private club? If so, then it has the right to limit who it lets in under the law. A club is a lot like a private home. Your free to invite or not invite anyone you want. Is the B&B open to the public? Well, that's a different story. Of course, at this time, gay people are not recognized as a protected class (although, ironically, business owners like the one in the article seem to be building the case that they should be). Since they are not a protected class under Illinois or Federal law, the business owner is free to decide to exclude gay people. His business judgment says his market is mainly straight people who will have no problem with hum claiming that God wants him to exclude gays. His business judgment is either right or wrong. Either way, it is only his action that will reward or punish him.

That is, unless, you think there should be a gag order on the gay couple that would take away their free speech. Is that what your saying? People should not be allowed to talk about the way a business treats them or take legal action that is available to them? Well, it sure looks like the only one want to infringe on freedom is you.
2014-01-22 10:40:16 AM  
1 votes:

DrPainMD: Jim Crow laws were brought to us by the progressives


media.tumblr.com
Wat?
2014-01-22 10:35:02 AM  
1 votes:

whatsupchuck: Gay couples have a right to equal access to public accommodations.  Private business owners have the right to be homophobic dickheads.  When push comes to shove in a court action to resolve this conflict, guess who almost always wins?

Hint:  There has to be a legitimate business interest for the refusal of service.


Is that good enough? If you run a business utilized by a lot of rednecks, you can't use the excuse that many of them will leave and negatively impact your revenue as a reason for refusing service to black people... even if it's true.
2014-01-22 10:31:54 AM  
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: Yes, because libs won't be happy until we're all teh gay.


Well, ever since desegregation we're all teh black now.
2014-01-22 10:23:19 AM  
1 votes:

Penoatle: gshepnyc: Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.

I agree 100%. And I look forward to them being remembered in the not-so-distant future the same way we remember those valiant, rugged businessmen who said they would never serve blacks in their establishments.  Because we remember those people for taking a brave stand for private business, right?

Is there something similar to Godwin where instead of bringing up Nazis we bring up segregation?

"We have the right to refuse service" is different than "No Coloreds".

Again though, I could care less. Just trying to figure out the full issue to these bandwagons people hop on.


I find it almost unbelievable that you honestly think this way for real, but you don't give off troll-vibes, so I'm guessing you either don't think very hard at all or you just want to feel comfortable in your delusional worldview where anyone can just do what they want if they have a business. You are bright enough to be aware that the success of those private businesses depends greatly on federal, state and municipal services that we all support and pay for, which totally sucks your argument dry, don't you?
2014-01-22 10:16:53 AM  
1 votes:

rikkitikkitavi: There truly is no hate like the oppressed with a enough to finance a lawsuit.


Because filing a civil rights complaint with the government is an expensive endeavor.
2014-01-22 10:12:46 AM  
1 votes:

Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.


Like the Greensboro Woolworth's, amirite?
2014-01-22 10:11:39 AM  
1 votes:

Gdalescrboz: Nacc: joness0154: qorkfiend: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything?

Well, there is the cake shop in Colorado forced to make cakes for same sex couples. It's not a stretch to assume it could happen to this guy.

I'm as pro gay marriage as it comes, but disagree forcing these companies to do business if they don't want. I also don't understand why a couple would be adamant about giving that person business if they're adamantly against their lifestyle.

Change the source of this article to it being about black people or an interracial couple. Your defense of said bigotry still fits. Why should those racists have to do business with a couple of darkies or darkie apologists....

It's because it's wrong to discriminate. If you are a bigot you will be found and painted as the bigot you are. People should know you're a bigot so they can vote with their wallet. You have a right to be a bigot and we have a right to know so we can refuse to patronize.

This is truly amazing. A guy gets sued for turning down a gay marriage,(never intended to make a spectacle of it) and you think it's ok...no, your right...nay, your duty, to conduct a smear campaign against him and destroy his life. Yet at the same time you bleeding heart liberals are the first to line up to crucify a 12 year old kid for any sleight that can be twisted in to bullying. The stupidity the left displays in matters pertaining to an individuals right to run his business how he wants without it turning in to a witch hunt is astounding. It's like watching Nancy Grace; pure, blind, unwarranted hate that you can't put in to a rational argument. So much so that's it's to the point that deep down inside, you have to know its absurd, you have to know that you are a hypocritical douche but you are afr ...



You're just doubling down on the derp today.
2014-01-22 10:11:31 AM  
1 votes:

det0321: Speaking from experience, there are worse places in the United States than Paxton, IL, although I am unable to come up with one at the moment.


Blair, NE

Barrow, AL

Anywhere in Utah

Texas
2014-01-22 10:07:37 AM  
1 votes:

farkmedown: And that's the root of the problem. These religious nuts won't let go of believing that homosexuality is a choice.


Because they 'choose' to suppress their own same sex urges, maybe slipping a couple of times here and there but it's always forgiven and they're put back on the lord's righteous path, so why can't everyone just choose like that? It's a choice.
2014-01-22 10:01:38 AM  
1 votes:
Probably illegal because he runs a place of public accommodation, but no matter.

Be damned if that place ever gets a dime from us non-gay people, though. And those young engaged hetero couples looking to start life together? They're just dying to begin their wedded lives under the aegis of a doctrinaire, judgmental hotelier looking to apply his standards of right & wrong to their lives.

It's really very easy. Just make certain everyone considering his business knows this policy of his, which he appears very proud of.
2014-01-22 09:56:40 AM  
1 votes:

joness0154: Or just allow the general public to put a place like that out of business by voting with their wallets.

Of course, I'm not a fan of too much government involvement in things they don't need to be involved in, and that's where my viewpoint comes from.


i1.ytimg.com
www.utne.com crooksandliars.com
www.ferris.edu

They can just vote with their wallets! By, y'know, moving to a completely different city/state/country.
2014-01-22 09:56:00 AM  
1 votes:

Nacc: joness0154: qorkfiend: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything?

Well, there is the cake shop in Colorado forced to make cakes for same sex couples. It's not a stretch to assume it could happen to this guy.

I'm as pro gay marriage as it comes, but disagree forcing these companies to do business if they don't want. I also don't understand why a couple would be adamant about giving that person business if they're adamantly against their lifestyle.

Change the source of this article to it being about black people or an interracial couple. Your defense of said bigotry still fits. Why should those racists have to do business with a couple of darkies or darkie apologists....

It's because it's wrong to discriminate. If you are a bigot you will be found and painted as the bigot you are. People should know you're a bigot so they can vote with their wallet. You have a right to be a bigot and we have a right to know so we can refuse to patronize.


This is truly amazing. A guy gets sued for turning down a gay marriage,(never intended to make a spectacle of it) and you think it's ok...no, your right...nay, your duty, to conduct a smear campaign against him and destroy his life. Yet at the same time you bleeding heart liberals are the first to line up to crucify a 12 year old kid for any sleight that can be twisted in to bullying. The stupidity the left displays in matters pertaining to an individuals right to run his business how he wants without it turning in to a witch hunt is astounding. It's like watching Nancy Grace; pure, blind, unwarranted hate that you can't put in to a rational argument. So much so that's it's to the point that deep down inside, you have to know its absurd, you have to know that you are a hypocritical douche but you are afraid that if you aren't so extreme, you will become unpopular with your PBR drinking twat waffle friends. How about you pour yourself a big glass of shut the fark up and let him run his place how he wants without fearing for his livelihood.
2014-01-22 09:52:26 AM  
1 votes:

joness0154: DeaH: joness0154: DeaH: DGS: If he wants to run his business that way, go for it. He has that freedom. Of course, others have the freedom to make it clear to other potential customers that the individual running that establishment is a bigot because god. That may dissuade others from wanting to give him business... just as it may make others want to give him business. Something something free market something.

Would he be free to refuse black customers?

We allow restaurants to discriminate based on age (lots of restaurants banning kids, etc.), allow pharmacists with religious beliefs to refuse to dispense the morning after pill, and allow hospitals & doctors to refuse to perform abortions.

Quite frankly, I think a business owner should be free to choose who he or she does business with, even if it discriminates.  They likely won't be in business very long - allowing it to be replaced by a business that, if it wants to survive, doesn't discriminate.

So, your good with refusing black customers?

Yes, as stated above.  I would never do it, as I'm not a racist prick, but a business owner should be able to serve who he or she wants to serve.

Like I and others have said, customers are also free to take their business elsewhere, and its very likely that business won't survive.


So, you want to do away with discrimination laws and go back to separate but equal. We you alive during that period? I was.
2014-01-22 09:49:29 AM  
1 votes:
Comparing to Chick-fil-a is apples/oranges. They didn't refuse service or employment to anyone. The owner was just donating HIS money to conservative family groups that were also anti-gay. So that was really just a political play and not a rights issue.
This a-hole is actually doing something discriminatory.
2014-01-22 09:44:31 AM  
1 votes:

joness0154: Like my post above this, I think a business should be able to refuse to provide a service to anyone they please.  Like you said, people will call them out as bigots and vote with their wallets.  Hopefully that business doesn't prosper and is replaced with a business who provides their services to everyone.


Yeah, that doesn't work too well.
2014-01-22 09:42:44 AM  
1 votes:
Is the creator of the universe really that concerned about gay unions when there black holes at the center of every galaxy sucking stars and planets into oblivion?
2014-01-22 09:41:31 AM  
1 votes:

Gdalescrboz: my lip balm addiction: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Just outing the bigots so they know who not to do business with.

Why are they bigots? Really, why? They think gay marriage is wrong. Can one not have an opinion another disagrees with without you putting a derogatory stamp of disapproval on it? Gays think being against gay marriage is wrong, does that make them a bigot? I just don't see where being a bigot comes on to play here


How do I put this lightly?  Then, you are missing a few chromosomes.
2014-01-22 09:26:43 AM  
1 votes:

lelio: Fafai: FTA (in a letter he wrote to some gay people): "It's not too late to change your behavior."

They always focus on the behavior. Love the sinner, hate the sin. It's the acting it out part they dwell on, not the impulses or urges or preference or identity, but the actual physical act of gay sex they can't seem to stop thinking about.

I'm pro-the gay marriage but what is wrong with love the sinner hate the sin? Conceptually I like the idea of Christians trying to love (or at least their God doing so) everyone but not liking individual acts.
Sort of like chronic gamblers: they love the person but don't like they spend every paycheck on slot machines.
So while you might not like their choice of seeing being gay as a bad behavior it doesn't mean their entire system is flawed.


I'm just saying it always boils down to dick-in-ass sex. These people have their minds in the gutter.
2014-01-22 09:23:22 AM  
1 votes:
Penoatle:

Again though, I could care less. Just trying to figure out the full issue to these bandwagons people hop on.

Well then you probably SHOULD care less and stop posting.

Seriously, get your phrases correct if you're going to attempt superiority.
2014-01-22 09:17:02 AM  
1 votes:

wxboy: Is there a limit on the use of religion to justify not following laws?


Based upon my reading of advocates of such exceptions, only followers of their specific sect of Christianity may be exempted.
2014-01-22 09:16:43 AM  
1 votes:

Fafai: FTA (in a letter he wrote to some gay people): "It's not too late to change your behavior."

They always focus on the behavior. Love the sinner, hate the sin. It's the acting it out part they dwell on, not the impulses or urges or preference or identity, but the actual physical act of gay sex they can't seem to stop thinking about.


I'm pro-the gay marriage but what is wrong with love the sinner hate the sin? Conceptually I like the idea of Christians trying to love (or at least their God doing so) everyone but not liking individual acts.
Sort of like chronic gamblers: they love the person but don't like they spend every paycheck on slot machines.
So while you might not like their choice of seeing being gay as a bad behavior it doesn't mean their entire system is flawed.
2014-01-22 09:04:26 AM  
1 votes:

physt: Dimensio: HenryFnord: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

"No coloreds"

This circumstance is different. This person's discrimination is motivated by religious belief, therefore it must be allowed. Religious belief creates special justification otherwise not present for objectionable behaviour.

What if you religious belief include "No coloreds"?

Fark religious beliefs.  Just because someone choices to believe in a sky wizard, doesn't mean they deserve special rights.


Thatsthejoke.jpg
2014-01-22 09:03:57 AM  
1 votes:

serial_crusher: Yeah, I'm sure the straight marriage market is really going to dry up.  Especially among the asshole demographic.


The asshole demographic is staying at the Super 8, not a B&B.
2014-01-22 08:59:28 AM  
1 votes:

HenryFnord: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

"No coloreds"


This circumstance is different. This person's discrimination is motivated by religious belief, therefore it must be allowed. Religious belief creates special justification otherwise not present for objectionable behaviour.
2014-01-22 08:57:57 AM  
1 votes:
He's gonna learn the lesson ChickFilA learned. Their business has dwindled to nearly nothing since they publicly adopted their anti-gay stance.
2014-01-22 08:57:08 AM  
1 votes:

Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.


Perhaps because we have central banks that can fire up the fake money presses and print up what ever amount it takes to get their way. Maybe moving the population in the direction of getting use to taking it anally is helpful to their plans.

I figure they have counterfeited the entire money supply over and over so many times we no longer own or have a say in anything.
2014-01-22 08:52:25 AM  
1 votes:

qorkfiend: kukukupo: I still fail to understand how you can FORCE someone to do business with you.  Then again, if the government can force you to buy a product, I guess it is only fair that you can force a business to sell it to you.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything?


Obama and his caring.  Really the rate this is going it's going to be illegal to operate your business based on your beliefs and solely within the confines of government oversight.
2014-01-22 08:51:02 AM  
1 votes:

DGS: rikkitikkitavi: Seriously? Another one of these threads? FARK has become the rally point for the LGBT community of late. There truly is no hate like the oppressed with a enough to finance a lawsuit.

I need another misogynist boobie thread. Please, I beg of you.

Are you even reading the responses?


You do know where this is vectored, right? Really... The first 12 responses will be trounced in a sea of "bigot, racist, neanderthal" and it will go on, and on and on for 500 odd posts.  Just like yesterday. And the day before.
2014-01-22 08:50:56 AM  
1 votes:

THE GREAT NAME: Yes, because libs won't be happy until we're all teh gay.

 

THE GREAT NAME: Once they're done forcing you to marry homosexuals, they'll start forcing you to perform late term abortions. After that you'll be forced to operate the gas chambers in which they will put all the climate change deniers. And they won't even see the irony, because their brains don't work that way.


Way too obvious. 0/10.
2014-01-22 08:49:36 AM  
1 votes:

gshepnyc: Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.

I agree 100%. And I look forward to them being remembered in the not-so-distant future the same way we remember those valiant, rugged businessmen who said they would never serve blacks in their establishments.  Because we remember those people for taking a brave stand for private business, right?


Is there something similar to Godwin where instead of bringing up Nazis we bring up segregation?

"We have the right to refuse service" is different than "No Coloreds".

Again though, I could care less. Just trying to figure out the full issue to these bandwagons people hop on.
2014-01-22 08:49:25 AM  
1 votes:

Penoatle: Private business, private rules. Why is this so hard to understand?

Really, someone tell me why people cannot operate their business the way they want to. Why do we get this foamy BS from either side.

I could care less but I know this thread will blow up with the usual crap.


The headline needs an IRONIC tag, since a large portion of bed and breakfast business is provided by gay couples, and he somehow fails to realize this.  He couldn't be hurting his business more if he advertised turd punch for breakfast.
2014-01-22 08:45:18 AM  
1 votes:
Once they're done forcing you to marry homosexuals, they'll start forcing you to perform late term abortions. After that you'll be forced to operate the gas chambers in which they will put all the climate change deniers. And they won't even see the irony, because their brains don't work that way.
2014-01-22 08:44:47 AM  
1 votes:
Unfortunately, this is why you'll never get a child-free flight or restaurant. Bah.
 
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