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(Slate)   30 years ago the SCOTUS made a monumental decision, and everyone bought VHS anyway   (slate.com) divider line 71
    More: Silly, Betamax, U.S. Supreme Court, Supreme Court, Trans-Pacific Partnership, VCRs  
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10186 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jan 2014 at 7:49 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-21 07:46:43 PM
Recently for example, online services have been sued for reporting "hot news" too "soon" after it was originally reported by someone else.

i40.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-21 07:51:52 PM
What is that... three or four grand worth of stuff in 1987?

www.slate.com
 
2014-01-21 07:54:27 PM
Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.
 
2014-01-21 07:54:46 PM
I love lamp
 
2014-01-21 07:57:23 PM

lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.


I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

/ I watched a documentary about Beta vs. VHS; they implied that VHS' success had a lot to do with the pron industry.
 
2014-01-21 07:57:40 PM
I remember as a kid going to "video x tron" and seeing the betamax section shrink and shrink everyday. They even had a porn section.
 
2014-01-21 08:02:50 PM
mroche.umwblogs.org
 
2014-01-21 08:04:44 PM

for good or for awesome: I remember as a kid going to "video x tron" and seeing the betamax section shrink and shrink everyday. They even had a porn section.


i remember that section, it would either have red ropes or curtains blocking it off from the rest of the store. like some kind of forbidden zone.
 
2014-01-21 08:05:44 PM

ElLoco: What is that... three or four grand worth of stuff in 1987?

[www.slate.com image 590x421]


That is a weird amalgamation of gear even in 1987.  That receiver looks like a Marantz 2015... and might have set you back a few hundy something in mid 70's.  The turntable looks like general cheap dreck of mid 80's though.  That 8 track deck is out there though...
 
2014-01-21 08:07:00 PM
To this day no one can program the damn clock.
 
2014-01-21 08:10:59 PM

iheartscotch: lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.

I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

/ I watched a documentary about Beta vs. VHS; they implied that VHS' success had a lot to do with the pron industry.


It did the pron industry locked in to using VHS because it could record longer than Betamax and that's was all she wrote.

Hollywood did the same not long after and betamax died.
 
2014-01-21 08:13:37 PM
That stuff is more 1978...not 1987.
 
2014-01-21 08:17:41 PM
I was always a fan of the slightly less popular beta format.
 
2014-01-21 08:21:57 PM

lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.


They also banned porn.  VHS won the market thanks to porn.
 
2014-01-21 08:24:43 PM
Woops,,, that has 2 VU meters... that is some member of the 22XX family, same early 70's vintage though.
 
2014-01-21 08:26:51 PM
FTA:  and for a copyright "levy" (now common outside the United States) of up to $50 per device and $5 per blank tape.

Bullshiat. But I'd expect such absolute bollocks from Slate.  If that were the case then it would be impossible to have a device that cost less than $50 (£30)... you could pickup a cheap MP3 player from the petrol station for £5.

Yes, there were (and probably are) media that has an additional fee to cover a license for any copyrighted material on them but these never actually sell simply because even if you were to use 'sanctioned' media you'd still get busted and fined for (C) infringement so you might as well keep buying the cheap and equally good media.

But that's different from saying EVERY device and item of media has such a levy on it.
 
2014-01-21 08:30:42 PM

grimlock1972: iheartscotch: lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.

I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

/ I watched a documentary about Beta vs. VHS; they implied that VHS' success had a lot to do with the pron industry.

It did the pron industry locked in to using VHS because it could record longer than Betamax and that's was all she wrote.

Hollywood did the same not long after and betamax died.


VHS was also cheaper. And just like with Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, it was pron, Disney, and Walmart that were the deciders
 
2014-01-21 08:31:05 PM

iheartscotch: I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.


And for many years BetaCam (basically Betamax's big brother) won over a lot of production companies; enough that it's equipment was ubiquitous.

The real question though is, has BluRay won against DVD?  I still know a lot of people who don't own a BR player, they're more than happy with upscaled DVD on their TV's.
 
2014-01-21 08:37:24 PM

ArkAngel: grimlock1972: iheartscotch: lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.

I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

/ I watched a documentary about Beta vs. VHS; they implied that VHS' success had a lot to do with the pron industry.

It did the pron industry locked in to using VHS because it could record longer than Betamax and that's was all she wrote.

Hollywood did the same not long after and betamax died.

VHS was also cheaper. And just like with Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, it was pron, Disney, and Walmart that were the deciders


exactly.   Sony tried to turn betamax into a cash cow and ended up killing it.
 
2014-01-21 08:44:26 PM
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-21 08:47:46 PM

Vaneshi: FTA:  and for a copyright "levy" (now common outside the United States) of up to $50 per device and $5 per blank tape.

Bullshiat. But I'd expect such absolute bollocks from Slate.  If that were the case then it would be impossible to have a device that cost less than $50 (£30)... you could pickup a cheap MP3 player from the petrol station for £5.

Yes, there were (and probably are) media that has an additional fee to cover a license for any copyrighted material on them but these never actually sell simply because even if you were to use 'sanctioned' media you'd still get busted and fined for (C) infringement so you might as well keep buying the cheap and equally good media.

But that's different from saying EVERY device and item of media has such a levy on it.


Slate is correct. You may be unaware because levies may not occur in your country.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Countries with mandated levies generally permit copying to levied media. So your idea of being busted anyway is mostly unrealistic..
 
2014-01-21 08:58:13 PM

thrasherrr: Vaneshi: FTA:  and for a copyright "levy" (now common outside the United States) of up to $50 per device and $5 per blank tape.

Bullshiat. But I'd expect such absolute bollocks from Slate.  If that were the case then it would be impossible to have a device that cost less than $50 (£30)... you could pickup a cheap MP3 player from the petrol station for £5.

Yes, there were (and probably are) media that has an additional fee to cover a license for any copyrighted material on them but these never actually sell simply because even if you were to use 'sanctioned' media you'd still get busted and fined for (C) infringement so you might as well keep buying the cheap and equally good media.

But that's different from saying EVERY device and item of media has such a levy on it.

Slate is correct. You may be unaware because levies may not occur in your country.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Countries with mandated levies generally permit copying to levied media. So your idea of being busted anyway is mostly unrealistic..


A fraction of the price of each CD-R in America goes the the RIAA.
 
2014-01-21 09:01:27 PM

thrasherrr: Slate is correct.


No, it's not even by your own link the majority of countries do not have this levy, it is not a common thing.  It may however be common in the United States.

> Countries with mandated levies generally permit copying to levied media.

We had levied media for sale alongside regular here in the UK and it was unequivocal "No, this will not help if the popo come knocking."    So I strongly doubt it would help anywhere else when the local version of the MPAA/RIAA come calling.

Simply because such organisations tend to be complete and utter coonts.
 
2014-01-21 09:06:54 PM

grimlock1972: iheartscotch: lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.

I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

/ I watched a documentary about Beta vs. VHS; they implied that VHS' success had a lot to do with the pron industry.

It did the pron industry locked in to using VHS because it could record longer than Betamax and that's was all she wrote.

Hollywood did the same not long after and betamax died.


Surely the primary thing that affected VHS vs Betamax was the record times - Betamax had 1 hour tapes for quite a while where VHS was 2 hours - this means one system could record feature films (and many sports events, few are less than an hour) in their entirety without someone being there to swap/flip the tape half way through.
 
2014-01-21 09:08:42 PM
Not sure if this is relevant but John P. Stevens also wrote the majority opinion for the much hated Kelo Decision regarding eminent domain powers.
 
2014-01-21 09:13:53 PM

Marcus Aurelius: lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.

They also banned porn.  VHS won the market thanks to porn.


Actually, it was the fact that the original Beta format could only record one hour of content versus two hours for the first version of VHS that killed them.

Then both formats came out with an extended mode that ran the tape at half speed which gave Beta two hours and VHS four hours. After VHS won there was also an eight hour tape format.

Better picture vs. taping the whole football game or the whole soap opera block...
 
2014-01-21 09:13:58 PM

UsikFark: thrasherrr: Vaneshi: FTA:  and for a copyright "levy" (now common outside the United States) of up to $50 per device and $5 per blank tape.

Bullshiat. But I'd expect such absolute bollocks from Slate.  If that were the case then it would be impossible to have a device that cost less than $50 (£30)... you could pickup a cheap MP3 player from the petrol station for £5.

Yes, there were (and probably are) media that has an additional fee to cover a license for any copyrighted material on them but these never actually sell simply because even if you were to use 'sanctioned' media you'd still get busted and fined for (C) infringement so you might as well keep buying the cheap and equally good media.

But that's different from saying EVERY device and item of media has such a levy on it.

Slate is correct. You may be unaware because levies may not occur in your country.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Countries with mandated levies generally permit copying to levied media. So your idea of being busted anyway is mostly unrealistic..

A fraction of the price of each CD-R in America goes the the RIAA.


Only CD-Rs made for music. Pure data CD-Rs do not give them anything
 
2014-01-21 09:17:04 PM

xria: grimlock1972: iheartscotch: lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.

I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

/ I watched a documentary about Beta vs. VHS; they implied that VHS' success had a lot to do with the pron industry.

It did the pron industry locked in to using VHS because it could record longer than Betamax and that's was all she wrote.

Hollywood did the same not long after and betamax died.

Surely the primary thing that affected VHS vs Betamax was the record times - Betamax had 1 hour tapes for quite a while where VHS was 2 hours - this means one system could record feature films (and many sports events, few are less than an hour) in their entirety without someone being there to swap/flip the tape half way through.


Having been alive in those days, I can tell you it was all of these, plus the less finicky, more versatile and forgiving nature of VHS recording equipment. VHS tape was cheaper, played longer, and that was an important trade-off in a time when the home market was for taping TV shows so you could watch them later. That meant that video stores were apt to rent the cheaper VHS machines to the consumer market, because they were easier to replace when they got broken vs. the pricier Beta models. Nobody cared much about superior quality to tape an episode of "Three's Company" or the football game; and Odyssey Records wasn't about to rent anything costly to a bunch of drunken college kids to view "Titty Tape XVIII" on Saturday.

The same was true of the video cameras that made an appearance at the same time, which was also a factor--Betacams were more expensive, despite being smaller; and the tapes were not as long for recording purposes; while the price meant they were less likely to be taken to the kids' soccer games or on camping trips. So put the two together and VHS's cheapness won out over Beta's quality.

A metaphor for America if ever there was one.
 
2014-01-21 09:18:01 PM

Vaneshi: The real question though is, has BluRay won against DVD? I still know a lot of people who don't own a BR player, they're more than happy with upscaled DVD on their TV's.


I used to avoid BluRay discs because none of the media players would ignore restricted OPs, such as skipping past previews and FBI warnings.  The extra clarity wasn't worth sitting through several minutes of crap.

Now I'll only get a BluRay if I plan on ripping it with AnyDVD, which allows you to save only the main movie.


xria: Surely the primary thing that affected VHS vs Betamax was the record times - Betamax had 1 hour tapes for quite a while where VHS was 2 hours


Eventually, that was fixed.  Just like with VHS, Betamax came out with extended play modes that ran the tape slower in exchange for reduced quality video.  Supposedly the SII mode on Beta was about on-par with short-play on VHS, storing two hours on an L-500 tape and three hours on an L-750 tape.  You could store 5 hours on an L-850 tape in SIII mode, although I imagine those cassettes didn't last very long.
 
2014-01-21 09:23:37 PM

ArkAngel: UsikFark: thrasherrr: Vaneshi: FTA:  and for a copyright "levy" (now common outside the United States) of up to $50 per device and $5 per blank tape.

Bullshiat. But I'd expect such absolute bollocks from Slate.  If that were the case then it would be impossible to have a device that cost less than $50 (£30)... you could pickup a cheap MP3 player from the petrol station for £5.

Yes, there were (and probably are) media that has an additional fee to cover a license for any copyrighted material on them but these never actually sell simply because even if you were to use 'sanctioned' media you'd still get busted and fined for (C) infringement so you might as well keep buying the cheap and equally good media.

But that's different from saying EVERY device and item of media has such a levy on it.

Slate is correct. You may be unaware because levies may not occur in your country.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Countries with mandated levies generally permit copying to levied media. So your idea of being busted anyway is mostly unrealistic..

A fraction of the price of each CD-R in America goes the the RIAA.

Only CD-Rs made for music. Pure data CD-Rs do not give them anything


Yes, but the difference is only in labeling AFAIK
 
2014-01-21 09:26:36 PM
Parents had betamax back in the day, Think they have a copy of the Star Wars Christmas special on betamax.
 
2014-01-21 09:34:45 PM

iheartscotch: lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.

I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

/ I watched a documentary about Beta vs. VHS; they implied that VHS' success had a lot to do with the pron industry.


Actually, it was very simple. VHS could run for 2+ hours while only the more recent Betamaxs had 1 hour. That really cut into it's potential as a home theater device.
 
2014-01-21 09:36:13 PM

ElLoco: What is that... three or four grand worth of stuff in 1987?

[www.slate.com image 590x421]


Probably.  In '87 video discs weren't too common. My college roommate got his in '92 and there was only one place in town that rented discs.  Figure at least $750 for that back then, plus the amp looks like it could be Harman/Kardon or McIntosh. Neither were cheap back in the day either.
 
2014-01-21 09:37:53 PM
I gotta wonder about the Silly tag.
 
2014-01-21 09:39:07 PM
Milos Hattrick:
img.fark.net

LOL! I still remember the episode of COPS that had a high-speed pursuit of some dipsh*t that stole one of those VHS players (not even a recorder. It was one of those play-only decks in a black hard shell that some video stores rented). Moran got into an accident and much mayhem ensued, all for some stupid video player that was woefully obsolete less than two years later.

I bet the other cons in the joint still razz him about that every time someone talks about DVD and Blu ray.
 
2014-01-21 09:39:16 PM

UsikFark: ArkAngel: UsikFark: thrasherrr: Vaneshi: FTA:  and for a copyright "levy" (now common outside the United States) of up to $50 per device and $5 per blank tape.

Bullshiat. But I'd expect such absolute bollocks from Slate.  If that were the case then it would be impossible to have a device that cost less than $50 (£30)... you could pickup a cheap MP3 player from the petrol station for £5.

Yes, there were (and probably are) media that has an additional fee to cover a license for any copyrighted material on them but these never actually sell simply because even if you were to use 'sanctioned' media you'd still get busted and fined for (C) infringement so you might as well keep buying the cheap and equally good media.

But that's different from saying EVERY device and item of media has such a levy on it.

Slate is correct. You may be unaware because levies may not occur in your country.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Countries with mandated levies generally permit copying to levied media. So your idea of being busted anyway is mostly unrealistic..

A fraction of the price of each CD-R in America goes the the RIAA.

Only CD-Rs made for music. Pure data CD-Rs do not give them anything

Yes, but the difference is only in labeling AFAIK


Yep.  The only difference between a CD labeled "music" and a regular one is that the one labeled "music" sends money to the RIAA.  NEVER buy a CD labeled "music".
 
2014-01-21 09:40:25 PM
tl;dr all comments. The reason VHS won was at $35 a tape, beta held an hour, and VHS held two, then four, while beta still did two.

Didn't matter about any other reason, simple 1978 math.

And no, if you could afford a player... a LOT of people got them because someone died. Wait... 'splain..

Late '70s a lot of grandparents/parents were dying, end of the depression gang, and people used the inheritance to splurge and buy one.
 
2014-01-21 09:41:38 PM

Oldiron_79: Parents had betamax back in the day, Think they have a copy of the Star Wars Christmas special on betamax.


So THAT'S where all those copies came from!

Oh man! You just busted your Grandparents' video piracy racket! The MPAA won't care. They'll ship em off to Gitmo no matter how old they are.

(at least they'll know how to fight the Frizzies)
 
2014-01-21 09:47:22 PM
And I still have one VHS cassette from my first video deck back in 1984. Think it had Ralph Bakshi's Fire and Ice and the first Tron movie recorded on it.
 
2014-01-21 09:49:27 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-21 09:52:02 PM

UsikFark: ArkAngel: UsikFark: thrasherrr: Vaneshi: FTA:  and for a copyright "levy" (now common outside the United States) of up to $50 per device and $5 per blank tape.

Bullshiat. But I'd expect such absolute bollocks from Slate.  If that were the case then it would be impossible to have a device that cost less than $50 (£30)... you could pickup a cheap MP3 player from the petrol station for £5.

Yes, there were (and probably are) media that has an additional fee to cover a license for any copyrighted material on them but these never actually sell simply because even if you were to use 'sanctioned' media you'd still get busted and fined for (C) infringement so you might as well keep buying the cheap and equally good media.

But that's different from saying EVERY device and item of media has such a levy on it.

Slate is correct. You may be unaware because levies may not occur in your country.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Countries with mandated levies generally permit copying to levied media. So your idea of being busted anyway is mostly unrealistic..

A fraction of the price of each CD-R in America goes the the RIAA.

Only CD-Rs made for music. Pure data CD-Rs do not give them anything

Yes, but the difference is only in labeling AFAIK


There are some bits inscribed into the burst cutting area that identify the media for recorders that care, but otherwise they are the same.

Vaneshi: We had levied media for sale alongside regular here in the UK and it was unequivocal "No, this will not help if the popo come knocking."    So I strongly doubt it would help anywhere else when the local version of the MPAA/RIAA come calling.

Simply because such organisations tend to be complete and utter coon


Actually, it's just because the UK waited until 2012 to legalize personal copying.  Other countries have different laws.
 
2014-01-21 09:55:53 PM

karmaceutical: ElLoco: What is that... three or four grand worth of stuff in 1987?

[www.slate.com image 590x421]

That is a weird amalgamation of gear even in 1987.  That receiver looks like a Marantz 2015... and might have set you back a few hundy something in mid 70's.  The turntable looks like general cheap dreck of mid 80's though.  That 8 track deck is out there though...


I think you're on the right track.  I thought it was HK, but look at the Marantz 2325...looks pretty damn close:

i218.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-21 09:56:18 PM
True, Betamax was the way to go back then, but then again, VS took over the market, kinda like PC and Apple. Apple may be overall a nicer product, but licensing was such a biatch, producers found it easier to do PC. Same S, people greedy to the point of stifling business.Song never changes, just younger dumbass players.
 
2014-01-21 10:05:03 PM

BullBearMS: Marcus Aurelius: lohphat: Betamax died because Sony was greedy about licensing. They never learned their lesson.

I'm looking at you PS3.

They also banned porn.  VHS won the market thanks to porn.

Actually, it was the fact that the original Beta format could only record one hour of content versus two hours for the first version of VHS that killed them.

Then both formats came out with an extended mode that ran the tape at half speed which gave Beta two hours and VHS four hours. After VHS won there was also an eight hour tape format.

Better picture vs. taping the whole football game or the whole soap opera block...


And even then the Beta format cost a lot more than VHS.
 
2014-01-21 10:14:37 PM

thrasherrr: A fraction of the price of each CD-R in America goes the the RIAA.

Only CD-Rs made for music. Pure data CD-Rs do not give them anything

Yes, but the difference is only in labeling AFAIK

There are some bits inscribed into the burst cutting area that identify the media for recorders that care, but otherwise they are the same.


It's not stored in the burst cutting area (BCA); it's the absolute time in pregroove (ATIP).  There is a SCSI command you can send to any PC CD writer that returns information stored within the ATIP, and one of the bits is a flag indicating "unrestricted use".  This bit indicates that the MAFIAA protection money has been paid; i.e. it's a music CD-R.

On a PC CD writer, you can burn whatever to either type of disk.  Only standalone music CD recorders give a fark.

/knows a lot about CDs
//has written her own burning program
 
2014-01-21 10:15:12 PM

Vaneshi: iheartscotch: I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

And for many years BetaCam (basically Betamax's big brother) won over a lot of production companies; enough that it's equipment was ubiquitous.

The real question though is, has BluRay won against DVD?  I still know a lot of people who don't own a BR player, they're more than happy with upscaled DVD on their TV's.


I don't notice enough of a difference to pay the cost of an upgrade until my DVD player dies. At least when DVD came in the scene, you got instant scene selection and no more eaten tapes. What does Bluray offer?
 
2014-01-21 10:26:52 PM

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Vaneshi: iheartscotch: I don't know. Bluray did win out over HD.

And for many years BetaCam (basically Betamax's big brother) won over a lot of production companies; enough that it's equipment was ubiquitous.

The real question though is, has BluRay won against DVD?  I still know a lot of people who don't own a BR player, they're more than happy with upscaled DVD on their TV's.

I don't notice enough of a difference to pay the cost of an upgrade until my DVD player dies. At least when DVD came in the scene, you got instant scene selection and no more eaten tapes. What does Bluray offer?


I agree it's not as big an upgrade, but Bluray does have noticeably higher resolution and much more recording space.
 
2014-01-21 10:27:11 PM
Being the old tech nerd that I am, I still have VHS... I still use my VHS... I have a decent size collection of tapes and I see no reason to get rid of them just because they are not 'cool'. Well, that and also I was/am pretty anal about my tapes. They don't sit near magnetic sources, they don't deal with temp extremes, and I still have the second video tape I ever owned. (First was actually a joint purchase with the roomie... we recorded all of the American releases of 'The Young Ones' on it. When we moved apart, he won the toss). I never loan them out after two hard earned lessons. And until I can no longer find something to play them on, I will keep on using them. As I said about cable, "Why are we paying two different sources for the same content?". (cable AND internet). I have lots of movies and stuff on VHS. They work and don't look too bad so why get the DVD version?
 
2014-01-21 10:39:53 PM

Myria: thrasherrr: A fraction of the price of each CD-R in America goes the the RIAA.

Only CD-Rs made for music. Pure data CD-Rs do not give them anything

Yes, but the difference is only in labeling AFAIK

There are some bits inscribed into the burst cutting area that identify the media for recorders that care, but otherwise they are the same.

It's not stored in the burst cutting area (BCA); it's the absolute time in pregroove (ATIP).  There is a SCSI command you can send to any PC CD writer that returns information stored within the ATIP, and one of the bits is a flag indicating "unrestricted use".  This bit indicates that the MAFIAA protection money has been paid; i.e. it's a music CD-R.

On a PC CD writer, you can burn whatever to either type of disk.  Only standalone music CD recorders give a fark.

/knows a lot about CDs
//has written her own burning program


What is that funny clicking noise?
 
2014-01-21 10:51:54 PM

Myria: It's not stored in the burst cutting area (BCA); it's the absolute time in pregroove (ATIP).  There is a SCSI command you can send to any PC CD writer that returns information stored within the ATIP, and one of the bits is a flag indicating "unrestricted use".  This bit indicates that the MAFIAA protection money has been paid; i.e. it's a music CD-R.


Yeah, you are right.  We informally call the whole pre-written area, including the lead-in, the BCA here.  It's incorrect, but it makes management ask fewer questions
 
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