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(Colorado Springs Gazette)   Manitou Springs, CO, is debating on whether to allow recreational marijuana sales. If you've never been there, try to imagine people in San Francisco debating whether they should allow gay bars   (gazette.com) divider line 81
    More: Fail, Manitou Springs, San Francisco, Manitou, tourist towns, El Paso County, Colorado, marijuana  
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2831 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jan 2014 at 5:18 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-21 04:21:56 PM
Wow that editorial was chock full of stupid. So a couple of stores selling pot will " have the devastating effect of running some good businesses from town or causing others to avoid the community when looking for relocation options." but a dozen bars selling alcohol don't?

The idiocy of the article was redeemed by the nearly unanimous smack down be the commenters.
 
2014-01-21 05:07:43 PM

Dinki: Wow that editorial was chock full of stupid. So a couple of stores selling pot will " have the devastating effect of running some good businesses from town or causing others to avoid the community when looking for relocation options." but a dozen bars selling alcohol don't?

The idiocy of the article was redeemed by the nearly unanimous smack down be the commenters.


and somehow it's that people are getting their weed in stores that's the big boogie man.  Tourists still come to town when you have to by your green on the corner like in any other good American city, but god forbid you have a door and a counter, maybe some chairs, that's the end of things...
 
2014-01-21 05:20:37 PM

timujin: Dinki: Wow that editorial was chock full of stupid. So a couple of stores selling pot will " have the devastating effect of running some good businesses from town or causing others to avoid the community when looking for relocation options." but a dozen bars selling alcohol don't?

The idiocy of the article was redeemed by the nearly unanimous smack down be the commenters.

and somehow it's that people are getting their weed in stores that's the big boogie man.  Tourists still come to town when you have to by your green on the corner like in any other good American city, but god forbid you have a door and a counter, maybe some chairs, that's the end of things...


Oh yeah? I bet you've never seen anyone die of a marijuana overdose...
 
2014-01-21 05:22:22 PM

timujin: Dinki: Wow that editorial was chock full of stupid. So a couple of stores selling pot will " have the devastating effect of running some good businesses from town or causing others to avoid the community when looking for relocation options." but a dozen bars selling alcohol don't?

The idiocy of the article was redeemed by the nearly unanimous smack down be the commenters.

and somehow it's that people are getting their weed in stores that's the big boogie man.  Tourists still come to town when you have to by your green on the corner like in any other good American city, but god forbid you have a door and a counter, maybe some chairs, that's the end of things...


Hitler and Stalin both used chairs. As did Pol Pot.
 
2014-01-21 05:23:08 PM
Still not legal on a federal level guys.
 
2014-01-21 05:23:42 PM
www.austinchronicle.com

Well, they do allow sales of Bust Must.
 
2014-01-21 05:24:01 PM
opiumpoopy:

Hitler and Stalin both used chairs. As did Pol Pot.

Every Farker knows the evil that lies hiding in a chair.
 
2014-01-21 05:25:19 PM
San Francisco had a big fight about gay bars in the 1960s. Before that, you had to bribe the SFPD if you didn't want to get raided.
 
2014-01-21 05:26:49 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-21 05:27:27 PM
Lived in Manitou Springs in the late 60s. Folks were getting high in large numbers even then. And with the rock formations in the Garden of the Gods, it's a great place to "expand yer mind". Plus, corn dogs.
 
2014-01-21 05:28:32 PM

Maud Dib: opiumpoopy:

Hitler and Stalin both used chairs. As did Pol Pot.

Every Farker knows the evil that lies hiding in a chair.


Especially slatted chairs. Let us never forget.
 
2014-01-21 05:31:28 PM
I live in Colorado Springs, and Subby's headline is dead on.
 
2014-01-21 05:31:56 PM
I drove up to another similar town called Breckenridge last saturday to buy some stuff at a legal shop. On my way to that store, I observed no one smoking joints/bongs/pipes out in the open just because the whole town went to pot. In fact I met a few guys ahead of me in line, who specifically decided to vacation in Breckenridge pretty much for that and the skiing...oh and they were from Texas.

Not only that, on my $136 purchase, $21 was just in taxes.
 
2014-01-21 05:32:33 PM
Like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500.
media.screened.com
 
2014-01-21 05:33:32 PM
I'm hopeful this is just growing pains for the "budding" legalization movement. But people are farking retarded. Remember how this vote was basically because prohibition was a massive failure? Some folks still think that if they ban the Weed Store, then those stupid stoners will have no choice but to go live and recreate somewhere else.

Same shiat is going on here with medical dispensaries.
 
2014-01-21 05:36:40 PM

stewbert: I'm hopeful this is just growing pains for the "budding" legalization movement. But people are farking retarded. Remember how this vote was basically because prohibition was a massive failure? Some folks still think that if they ban the Weed Store, then those stupid stoners will have no choice but to go live and recreate somewhere else.

Same shiat is going on here with medical dispensaries.


Ayup. Oregon has the same problem. A bunch of uptight NIMBYs crying "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?"
 
2014-01-21 05:36:41 PM

cgraves67: Maud Dib: opiumpoopy:

Hitler and Stalin both used chairs. As did Pol Pot.

Every Farker knows the evil that lies hiding in a chair.

Especially slatted chairs. Let us never forget.


You know what they can do to you if you sit in a chair? Let's just say, you don't want to know.

redicecreations.com
 
2014-01-21 05:43:05 PM
Gay bars?  In San Francisco?  Nah, it's a niche market -- it'd never take off.
 
2014-01-21 05:45:53 PM
As someone who is currently sitting 5 miles away from Manitou Springs, this headline is so accurate, it doesn't do it justice.
 
2014-01-21 05:54:55 PM
Probably have to be stoned most of the time just to be able to stomach the food there.  Stayed two weeks and had 14 crappy meals.
 
2014-01-21 05:57:11 PM

jshine: Gay bars?  In San Francisco?  Nah, it's a niche market -- it'd never take off.


"Niche"?  They have such funny names for their...
 
2014-01-21 06:02:25 PM
For those not in the know, Manitou Springs is the hippie Siamese twin of Colorado Springs (very Christian fundie and/or heartless libertarian).

When pot is oked in Manitou (not "if") then lots of people in CS will go there to buy it, thus negating CS's ban on recreational pot stores.

http://csbj.com/2014/01/16/manitou-set-to-own-pot-market/
Under state law, Manitou's two existing licensed dispensaries are grandfathered in for retail. According to Snyder, they'll have a nine-month window before other licenses can be granted. Manitou might realize a substantial tax windfall from the new businesses. The city already collects a 3.9 percent sales tax, and will receive another 5 percent directly from marijuana purveyors, in addition to a 1.5 percent rebate of state taxes.
The first retail shops may be open as soon as mid-April, Snyder said, depending upon the regulatory process.


CS, while right wing, will hate to see its citizens' monies going to Manitou, and valuing greed more than morality will probably follow suit in allowing recreational stores rather than lose out on money.
 
2014-01-21 06:03:02 PM
No problems with Manitou springs, though I know a guy whose seals ruptured.
 
2014-01-21 06:03:31 PM

Dinki: Wow that editorial was chock full of stupid. So a couple of stores selling pot will " have the devastating effect of running some good businesses from town or causing others to avoid the community when looking for relocation options." but a dozen bars selling alcohol don't?

The idiocy of the article was redeemed by the nearly unanimous smack down be the commenters.


To be honest, its not so much the selling of the weed - it is the social acceptance of the weed that drives the people away. Good or Bad, weed is considered a vice, and opening stores is seen as a vice becoming more socially acceptable - and therefore the perception of the area is that it is a lower quality neighborhood - just as if more strip bars, or adult bookstores moved in.

You may think that is idiotic, but that is how it is perceived. Throw in the fact that this "new social acceptance of a vice" is cutting edge, and the community also gets the stigma as leading the way towards accepting vice" - and there will be those that will see that as a slipperly slope, and will want to get out before -more- traditional "vices" are accepted, like prostitution or chicken fights or something.

Again, Im not saying this is rational, irrational, stupid, inevitable, whatever - but it is what is happening.

Even alcohol has only a "semi" acceptance socially, after hundreds of years. Build more liquor stores in the neighborhood, and property prices go down, and the neighborhood is considered "worse", and people of lower socioeconomic classes move in.

I understand that the pro-marijuana crowd wants to change all this and have marijuana -not- considered a vice, and to be looked upon as harmless as pizza, but it just isnt perceived that way yet.
 
2014-01-21 06:05:11 PM

ISO15693: Even alcohol has only a "semi" acceptance socially, after hundreds of years. Build more liquor stores in the neighborhood, and property prices go down, and the neighborhood is considered "worse", and people of lower socioeconomic classes move in.


I think you have the cause and effect backward here.
 
2014-01-21 06:06:37 PM
So, according to the editorial that pops up next, it ISN'T OK to take property rights to prevent fracking, but it is OK to prevent pot sales.

I'm pretty certain you won't get a lot of tourists to see your oil fields and extraction plays.
 
2014-01-21 06:07:58 PM

jst3p: ISO15693: Even alcohol has only a "semi" acceptance socially, after hundreds of years. Build more liquor stores in the neighborhood, and property prices go down, and the neighborhood is considered "worse", and people of lower socioeconomic classes move in.

I think you have the cause and effect backward here.


 It could go both ways. Liquor stores do tend to come into poor neighborhoods - but it would still work the  other way - build a bunch of liquor stores, and there will be people that move, because they don't want to live in a neighborhood with a bunch of liquor stores, and the "type of people" that they would attract.
 
2014-01-21 06:09:39 PM

ISO15693: jst3p: ISO15693: Even alcohol has only a "semi" acceptance socially, after hundreds of years. Build more liquor stores in the neighborhood, and property prices go down, and the neighborhood is considered "worse", and people of lower socioeconomic classes move in.

I think you have the cause and effect backward here.

 It could go both ways. Liquor stores do tend to come into poor neighborhoods - but it would still work the  other way - build a bunch of liquor stores, and there will be people that move, because they don't want to live in a neighborhood with a bunch of liquor stores, and the "type of people" that they would attract.


I understand it  could happen that way. I am of the opinion that it probably doesn't because the people building the liquor stores would be doing so before the increased demand exists.

But I haven't done any studies on it.
 
2014-01-21 06:11:14 PM

buttcat: I live in Colorado Springs, and Subby's headline is dead on.


HST's Dead Carcass: As someone who is currently sitting 5 miles away from Manitou Springs, this headline is so accurate, it doesn't do it justice.


Thirded.


Oh, and TFA sucks.  Instead of going to that park out by the circle to score they'll be going into a store.  Notsomuch of a change.
 
2014-01-21 06:14:30 PM

NkThrasher: buttcat: I live in Colorado Springs, and Subby's headline is dead on.

HST's Dead Carcass: As someone who is currently sitting 5 miles away from Manitou Springs, this headline is so accurate, it doesn't do it justice.

Thirded.


Oh, and TFA sucks.  Instead of going to that park out by the circle to score they'll be going into a store.  Notsomuch of a change.


Is it anything like Boulder? Because it was my understanding that you had to hacky-sack with them for 15 minutes before they would sell to you.
 
2014-01-21 06:14:35 PM

alice_600: Still not legal on a federal level guys.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-21 06:17:45 PM

ISO15693: they don't want to live in a neighborhood with a bunch of liquor stores, and the "type of people" that they would attract.


It seems like a decent hypothesis, but wealthier people tend to drink more often and in larger amounts than poorer people.  This has been demonstrated in study after study.  The poorest tend to drink the least amount of alcohol with large percentages of them abstaining completely.   Among the top 1% there are few abstainers.

Now check cashing stores and massage parlors and strip clubs I can see being something that might make a neighborhood look bad, I don't see how having a lot of nice liquor stores around does the same thing.   Everyone drinks alcohol.
 
2014-01-21 06:19:34 PM

dmaestaz: I drove up to another similar town called Breckenridge last saturday to buy some stuff at a legal shop. On my way to that store, I observed no one smoking joints/bongs/pipes out in the open just because the whole town went to pot. In fact I met a few guys ahead of me in line, who specifically decided to vacation in Breckenridge pretty much for that and the skiing...oh and they were from Texas.

Not only that, on my $136 purchase, $21 was just in taxes.


How was the traffic driving up?

/works in Breck
//lives in Alma
 
2014-01-21 06:21:03 PM

HairBolus: When pot is oked in Manitou (not "if") then lots of people in CS will go there to buy it, thus negating CS's ban on recreational pot stores.


This is because of Mayor Bach. He has silently told insiders that he will NEVER allow Recreational Marijuana to be sold in Colorado Springs and has enlisted the mayors of the surrounding towns (Manitou, Security/Widefield and Fountain) to all make commitments to keep it out of the area. He has also made note that he will veto any such amendment that comes across his desk, regardless of what the City Council says.

In turn, the City Council has vetoed all his budget requests and requests for changes, and right now the two sides are fighting tooth and nail for control of the city. He uses the police force as his personal body guards (not so strange, really) and as his own personal muscle to harass those that openly disagree with him.

he doesn't take kindly to any kind of dissent, being it open, friendly, aggressive or making light of him and his agenda.

/currently writing this from a computer on the city network
//my entire team is being laid off next week to be outsourced.
 
2014-01-21 06:24:53 PM

jst3p: NkThrasher: buttcat: I live in Colorado Springs, and Subby's headline is dead on.

HST's Dead Carcass: As someone who is currently sitting 5 miles away from Manitou Springs, this headline is so accurate, it doesn't do it justice.

Thirded.


Oh, and TFA sucks.  Instead of going to that park out by the circle to score they'll be going into a store.  Notsomuch of a change.

Is it anything like Boulder? Because it was my understanding that you had to hacky-sack with them for 15 minutes before they would sell to you.


Can't speak from purchasing experience, my workplace tests so it's off limits for me until it's not federally unlawful.

However, I can say that when you walk through that area it is very, very obvious what's going on (scent and cliche appearance of everyone there).  It's sort of at the end of the main drag of stores, so most of the touristy folks probably don't make it quite that far, or they drive through on the way to the cog / incline.
 
2014-01-21 06:30:59 PM
Dude, where's my bong?
 
2014-01-21 06:32:26 PM

jst3p: Is it anything like Boulder? Because it was my understanding that you had to hacky-sack with them for 15 minutes before they would sell to you.


Boulder is much more hardcore. Manitou is more like San Fran hippies of the 60's and Boulder is more like Seattle Hipsters of today. If you get caught smoking tobacco in public in Boulder, you are looking at possible detainment (in jail) and a high dollar fine (this includes smoking in your own car or apartment/shared wall living space). Manitou just doesn't care that much.

Manitou has TONS of quirky shops selling anything from hand made Dulcimers to Wiccan Crystals... there is LITERALLY a potion shop in Old Colorado City where you can buy magic potions... they are serious they work, too! Old Colorado City is the buffer between Manitou Springs and Colorado Springs. Tons of organic shops (I get my tea made there as a special blend for $6/ounce), hemp clothing stores, art shops and plenty of faux Native American style shops to lure in the rube tourists.

Manitou is an interesting place, and rumors of hauntings, devil worship and all sorts of strange shiat comes out there. I've been hearing these things since I moved here in 1977, and have never witnessed any of them.
 
2014-01-21 06:34:09 PM
s9.postimg.org
 
2014-01-21 06:43:17 PM

simkatu: ISO15693: they don't want to live in a neighborhood with a bunch of liquor stores, and the "type of people" that they would attract.

It seems like a decent hypothesis, but wealthier people tend to drink more often and in larger amounts than poorer people.  This has been demonstrated in study after study.  The poorest tend to drink the least amount of alcohol with large percentages of them abstaining completely.   Among the top 1% there are few abstainers.

Now check cashing stores and massage parlors and strip clubs I can see being something that might make a neighborhood look bad, I don't see how having a lot of nice liquor stores around does the same thing.   Everyone drinks alcohol.


I suspect that the wealthier people who drink more often also go buy their alcohol someplace farther from their neighborhood.

Im not wealthy, and I dont drink, but if I were, and I did, I would want a house in a place with no liquor stores. I would probably buy my alcohol discretely from the wine section of Whole Foods, or bring back bottles from weekend trips up to Napa.
 
2014-01-21 06:44:32 PM
Manitou is awesome. id go more often if it didnt mean going through the springs. :(
 
2014-01-21 06:45:46 PM

HST's Dead Carcass: there is LITERALLY a potion shop in Old Colorado City where you can buy magic potions... they are serious they work, too!


Wait what now?

How have I not been to this shop yet?!
 
2014-01-21 06:47:19 PM

lostindenver: Manitou is awesome. id go more often if it didnt mean going through the springs. :(


At least we're not Pueblo.
 
2014-01-21 06:47:40 PM

ISO15693: simkatu: ISO15693: they don't want to live in a neighborhood with a bunch of liquor stores, and the "type of people" that they would attract.

It seems like a decent hypothesis, but wealthier people tend to drink more often and in larger amounts than poorer people.  This has been demonstrated in study after study.  The poorest tend to drink the least amount of alcohol with large percentages of them abstaining completely.   Among the top 1% there are few abstainers.

Now check cashing stores and massage parlors and strip clubs I can see being something that might make a neighborhood look bad, I don't see how having a lot of nice liquor stores around does the same thing.   Everyone drinks alcohol.

I suspect that the wealthier people who drink more often also go buy their alcohol someplace farther from their neighborhood.

Im not wealthy, and I dont drink, but if I were, and I did, I would want a house in a place with no liquor stores. I would probably buy my alcohol discretely from the wine section of Whole Foods, or bring back bottles from weekend trips up to Napa.


I am not wealthy but we are pretty solid upper middle class (220k + annual household income) and there is a liquor store in my neighborhood and in every neighborhood similar to ours. Never more than one though. I have run into neighbors there, it isn't a seedy thing done in hushed tones. It really isn't a big deal at all.

Of course in Colorado grocery stores cant sell hard stuff. Cali was better, where I could buy rum when I went grocery shopping. Overall I am happier here.
 
2014-01-21 06:53:24 PM
Manitou Springs resident here, most of the people who live here are pretty confused by how the city council has been reacting to the retail marijuana sales. Amendment 64 passed with 68% of the local vote, the biggest majority of local voters of any city in Colorado, more then even 'liberal Boulder', the vast majority of locals would prefer to allow retail sales here in the city.

The very, very, very vocal minority that choose to speak at the city council meetings seem to be holding this up, with predictable and very easily debunkable 'reefer madness' talking points. Unfortunately these vocal minority voices seem to be very politically powerful people so even though they are very much in the minority, somehow their voices have more weight.

Every city council meeting regarding this since last year have had the vast majority of citizens allowed to speak on the subject being overwhelmingly in favor of retail shops here in town, the Gazette only seems to print the opinions of the 4-5 people who do not want retail shops, giving a very skewed view of the realities here in Manitou Springs.

As far as the fear that retail shops in town will lead to 'underage consumers' this is a joke, any Manitou Springs High School student that wants to get weed can find it and have been doing so for the last several decades. Retail pot in Colorado is on average 4-5 times the street price. A quarter ounce on the street is about 40 bucks, a quarter ounce in the retail stores is about 110 bucks plus 25% tax. Anyone who claims that retail shops will lead to more street sales has failed basic economics, is completely out of touch with the realities of marijuana in Colorado and thus are disqualified from even being able to speak on the subject with any authority since it is obvious they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

It has been over a decade since medical marijuana became legal in Colorado, weed is easier to obtain then alcohol for many people, retail stores selling weed have zero impact on the availability or the percentage of users we have in the state. Anyone that says otherwise is lying, the only thing I ask myself is, to what purpose.
 
2014-01-21 07:36:14 PM
Them boys in Colorado they'd just as soon pan for gold
The nights are too long and the growing season is to cold
They'd just as soon as smoke a joint that Jason Bolland rolled
Least that's what I've been told

/ccr ftw
 
2014-01-21 07:37:37 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: timujin: Dinki: Wow that editorial was chock full of stupid. So a couple of stores selling pot will " have the devastating effect of running some good businesses from town or causing others to avoid the community when looking for relocation options." but a dozen bars selling alcohol don't?

The idiocy of the article was redeemed by the nearly unanimous smack down be the commenters.

and somehow it's that people are getting their weed in stores that's the big boogie man.  Tourists still come to town when you have to by your green on the corner like in any other good American city, but god forbid you have a door and a counter, maybe some chairs, that's the end of things...

Oh yeah? I bet you've never seen anyone die of a marijuana overdose...


Nope, but damn, I've seen some people try
 
2014-01-21 07:38:51 PM

simkatu: It seems like a decent hypothesis, but wealthier people tend to drink more often and in larger amounts than poorer people. This has been demonstrated in study after study. The poorest tend to drink the least amount of alcohol with large percentages of them abstaining completely. Among the top 1% there are few abstainers.


In "nice" neighborhoods you get stores like Bevmo and Wine & More.  I doubt many have problems with them.  I think the problem is with corner liquor stores that sprout up in poor neighborhoods.  Out here in California they tend to be run down, stocked with cheap liquor and drug accessories (steel wool and small glass vials), surrounded by trash and ususally a few homeless people in the shadows.
 
2014-01-21 07:45:52 PM
As a Manitou Springs resident, I'm all for it. City council has been cautiously approaching this issue making sure their butts are as covered as possible before giving the go-ahead. It's not like everyone here that wants to get stoned can't already.

Plus quirky doesn't even cover it. My favorite falafel shop downtown has a psychic below it.
 
2014-01-21 07:54:16 PM

HST's Dead Carcass: As someone who is currently sitting 5 miles away from Manitou Springs, this headline is so accurate, it doesn't do it justice.


I should really grab a beer with you sometime.
 
2014-01-21 07:55:33 PM
Damn, a whole lot of locals. This makes me happy. We should do a low-key Fark party.
 
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