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(Think Progress)   Bakery that refused to sell wedding cake to lesbian couple found to have discriminated, its owner saying it's part of 'God's plan'. Sure, if God's plan for you is a jury trial   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 676
    More: Followup, lesbian couples, public accommodations  
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5459 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jan 2014 at 1:11 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-21 01:39:19 PM  
They should have just gone with "The cake is a lie".
 
2014-01-21 01:39:29 PM  

Dr Dreidel: MyRandomName: The hilarious part is that you liberals always attempt economic boycotts to destroy those who disagree with you.

Like the liberals who boycotted Pepsi over some Jay-Z lyrics?
Like the liberals who boycotted Dunkin Donuts over Rachel Ray's neckwear?
Like the liberals who boycotted Starbucks over their decision to not be dicks to their employees?
Like the liberals who boycotted government because Congress wouldn't pass the laws they wanted?


Ummm... are you going to ruin Madonnas career after she used the N word the other day? Or did she need to say it 20 years ago for it to matter?
 
2014-01-21 01:39:33 PM  

MyRandomName: You realize that you liberals are acting exactly the same towards religious people, right? Liberals always want respect but never respect the religious views of others. The irony is thick.


As Scientology has proven, any drunken jackass can make up their own religion based on a bar bet. So here, I just made up a religion were no moronic rednecks are allowed to drink at my establishment. I'll probably go broke but I'll have made my point.
 
2014-01-21 01:39:49 PM  

Gentoolive: Blues_X: HoustonNick: Libtard Creed - You must believe like I believe or be punished.  No other beliefs will be accepted.

This is so disgusting.


Next up: "but we don't want to serve black people."

And?

If you don't like the way someone conducts business, don't shop there.


Also would like to add: If you are afraid of having the spooks, queers, chinks, heebs, and beaners frequent your establishment, then maybe YOU SHOULDN'T RUN A farkING BUSINESS!
 
2014-01-21 01:40:39 PM  

HoustonNick: Libtard Creed - You must believe like I believe or be punished.  No other beliefs will be accepted.

This is so disgusting.


Yes, yes you are.
 
2014-01-21 01:40:44 PM  

Guelph35: I don't agree with the bakery owner's decision, but when did sexual orientation become a protected class in regards to discrimination?



Sexual orientation is a protected class in a number of states.  I'm not going to google that for you.
 
2014-01-21 01:41:51 PM  

totallyfubar: It is a religious belief they are standing for, that homosexuality is wrong.  Comparing that to segregation is apples and oranges.  The bible never said blacks were not equal, it says the opposite.


Segregationists used the Bible to justify their actions.
 
2014-01-21 01:41:53 PM  

Guelph35: I don't agree with the bakery owner's decision, but when did sexual orientation become a protected class in regards to discrimination?


June 26, 2013
 
2014-01-21 01:42:00 PM  

Dr Dreidel: MyRandomName: The hilarious part is that you liberals always attempt economic boycotts to destroy those who disagree with you.

Like the liberals who boycotted Pepsi over some Jay-Z lyrics?
Like the liberals who boycotted Dunkin Donuts over Rachel Ray's neckwear?
Like the liberals who boycotted Starbucks over their decision to not be dicks to their employees?
Like the liberals who boycotted government because Congress wouldn't pass the laws they wanted?


static01.mediaite.com
 
2014-01-21 01:42:05 PM  

mark12A: Can't wait for the Neo-Nazi's to show up en masse on Fark preaching their crap, but private business owner Drew will be prevented BY LAW from throwing them out because DISCRIMINATION.

/It's a comfy bed you Libtards are setting up for yourselves.
//and yes, people WILL set up private bakeries, restaurants, etc. if this shiat gets much deeper, and America Balkanizes further....


Political belief is not a protected class.
 
2014-01-21 01:42:10 PM  

tricycleracer: None of those groups you listed are "protected groups", so, sure, discriminate away.


So your argument is that everybody must be treated equally but some groups are more equal than others?
 
2014-01-21 01:43:06 PM  

Baz744: Can someone please direct me to the Bible passage which requires Jehovah religionists to discriminate against homosexuals in provision of public services?


Rom 16:17
2 Thess 3:6
2 Thess 3:14


They're applicable if you believe the corresponding bits about homosexuals.

/if
 
2014-01-21 01:43:11 PM  

Guelph35: I don't agree with the bakery owner's decision, but when did sexual orientation become a protected class in regards to discrimination?


In May 2008, the  passing of the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, or Senate Bill 200, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or transgender status in housing and public accommodations.
 
2014-01-21 01:43:11 PM  

Baz744: mwfark: So a lady is forced to do something against her will in a supposedly free society, and some people call this progress. I call it tyranny, and while I personally disagree with her position, I do think she should have the right to run her business as she sees fit.

In constitutional terms, no such right exists. The 10th Amendment says states have the right to police the health, safety, and morals of their residents; including by prohibiting immoral discrimination against homosexuals in provision of public services. I.e., states may permissibly punish evil people.



Forcing people to interact with other people is evil.

Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
 
2014-01-21 01:43:16 PM  

MJMaloney187: This is such BS.  "Cryer and Bowman filed a complaint alleging unlawful discrimination."

Cryer and Bowman should have their attention-whoring as*es run out of town. Go to a different baker for crying out loud.


Pretty sure they already did.

That doesn't mean the Christian bigot's illegal discriminatory businesses practices don't need to be addressed.

Freedom to discriminate against an entire group of people is not really freedom.

Cryer and Bowman did a brave and necessary thing here.

They could have just walked away and not given the guy their business. That would have been the easy thing to do.

But it wouldn't have been the right thing to do.

Whining because some Baker with half baked ideas got properly called on being a total dick is funny and maybe a little bit sad too.

He's not the victim here.

Learn this.
 
2014-01-21 01:43:47 PM  

Onkel Buck: Dr Dreidel: MyRandomName: The hilarious part is that you liberals always attempt economic boycotts to destroy those who disagree with you.

Like the liberals who boycotted Pepsi over some Jay-Z lyrics?
Like the liberals who boycotted Dunkin Donuts over Rachel Ray's neckwear?
Like the liberals who boycotted Starbucks over their decision to not be dicks to their employees?
Like the liberals who boycotted government because Congress wouldn't pass the laws they wanted?

Ummm... are you going to ruin Madonnas career after she used the N word the other day? Or did she need to say it 20 years ago for it to matter?


She apologized for it and admitted it was stupid.  I don't remember the wedding cake makers apologizing.

But just to err on the safe side, I promise to never purchase anything from Madonna.
 
2014-01-21 01:43:55 PM  

HoustonNick: Libtard Creed - You must believe like I believe or be punished.  No other beliefs will be accepted.

This is so disgusting.


Racist/Homophobe Creed - You must tolerate my intolerance.  The fact that I believe in an invisible sky wizard trumps any possible benefit to society from equal treatment of all under the law.

This is so disgusting.
 
2014-01-21 01:44:20 PM  
Christianity isn't a religion, it's a trolling system.
 
2014-01-21 01:44:36 PM  

Phinn: So, you don't understand the differences among Forced Discrimination, Forced Non-discrimination and Freedom of Association.


Forced discrimination: separate water fountains
Forced non-discrimination: TFA, and the main issue in TFT
Freedom of Association: means you retain the right to associate (or not) in your capacity as a citizen with any groups you choose.

Freedom of association does not mean that a license-holder can deny use of the power granted by that license to another citizen for any reason. Just like I can fire someone (in right-to-work states) for NO reason but not for ANY reason, you're free to refuse service for NO reason, but not for ANY reason.

// and the same reason that people are telling the couple to "get over it"/"find a new bakery" are the same reasons I say to the bakers: "Shut up and bake"
// even Abraham made food for heathens and idolators.
 
2014-01-21 01:44:54 PM  

mark12A: //and yes, people WILL set up private bakeries, restaurants, etc. if this shiat gets much deeper, and America Balkanizes further....


uh..this bigoted bakery couldn't even stay in business, what makes you think there would be an underground railroad funneling religious freak bigots to private bakeries?
 
2014-01-21 01:45:38 PM  

Mr. Right: tricycleracer: None of those groups you listed are "protected groups", so, sure, discriminate away.

So your argument is that everybody must be treated equally but some groups are more equal than others?


His argument is there are groups that are protected and groups that are not.  That's why it's okay to discriminate and only hire people with college degrees but it's not okay to discriminate and only hire white people.
 
2014-01-21 01:46:16 PM  

hardinparamedic: mark12A: Can't wait for the Neo-Nazi's to show up en masse on Fark preaching their crap, but private business owner Drew will be prevented BY LAW from throwing them out because DISCRIMINATION.

/It's a comfy bed you Libtards are setting up for yourselves.
//and yes, people WILL set up private bakeries, restaurants, etc. if this shiat gets much deeper, and America Balkanizes further....

Political belief is not a protected class.



When you define what's "protected" by arbitrary rules, then there's no reason "political belief" can't become protected.
 
2014-01-21 01:46:51 PM  

MyRandomName: The hilarious part is that you liberals always attempt economic boycotts to destroy those who disagree with you. Yet if any person attempted an economic boycott of a minority business, you would be outraged. You are the people you complain about. You have simply switched skin color for politics and religion. You are no better. You at just as intolerant.


The hilarious part is that you think that something you make a decision on, such as religion (which is as protected, in fact more protected, than gender and sexual orientation) or political view, is somehow in any way comparable with something you don't make a decision on, such as sexual orientation or gender. In an effort to have some faith in humanity, I will pretend that you're just pretending to be this much of an obtuse piece of shiat, rather than face the likelihood that you are just that stupid and asinine.

And, once again, because you're too stupid to get it every time you're told, seemingly, you seem to be glossing over the fact that  intolerance of intolerance is NOT bigotry.Tolerance of intolerance, however? There's a special word for that:  Appeasement. It's a terrible thing which tends to lead to lynchings and genocide, but filth like you tends to pretend that your bigotry is somehow less bigoted because teh gays and brown people.

Now, on the subject, the Bakers knowingly broke state laws in their actions, and they are facing the consequences of breaking those laws. Now, if you don't believe in a law, civil disobedience, as the bakers practiced, assuming they were not just too dumb to research the laws governing their rights to own a public-serving business in that state (I know. Big assumption), you should not follow it, but part of civil disobedience is taking the consequences of knowingly breaking that law. They could actually maybe take this to the ACLU, which might actually help, as that law might be unconstitutional, for now.
 
2014-01-21 01:46:58 PM  

Onkel Buck: Dr Dreidel: MyRandomName: The hilarious part is that you liberals always attempt economic boycotts to destroy those who disagree with you.

Like the liberals who boycotted Pepsi over some Jay-Z lyrics?
Like the liberals who boycotted Dunkin Donuts over Rachel Ray's neckwear?
Like the liberals who boycotted Starbucks over their decision to not be dicks to their employees?
Like the liberals who boycotted government because Congress wouldn't pass the laws they wanted?

Ummm... are you going to ruin Madonnas career after she used the N word the other day? Or did she need to say it 20 years ago for it to matter?


wat

// going to view Vadge's career the same way I have for the last 15 years - "She's still around?"
// also, I don't really care about boycotts - OP seemed to think it's a thing only "the liberals" do
// and he was incorrect
 
2014-01-21 01:47:10 PM  

notto: totallyfubar: It is a religious belief they are standing for, that homosexuality is wrong.  Comparing that to segregation is apples and oranges.  The bible never said blacks were not equal, it says the opposite.

Segregationists used the Bible to justify their actions.



It's remarkable how throughout history, the conservative movement has pretty consistently used the bible as its excuse for supporting really bad laws, like (among other things) slavery, alcohol prohibition, Jim crow laws, and now bigotry towards gays.

Also, remember when Rand Paul thought the civil rights act should be declared unconstitutional - because in his mind the "freedom to run your business as one sees fit" trumps the right of black people to be treated with respect and dignity?  The whole "economic freedom" and "states rights" nonsense is always invoked by conservatives as their excuse for opposing policies.  It lets them say "I oppose the civil rights act because states' rights," so they can avoid saying the real reason why they oppose it - because they're racist a-holes who think that the "right" to discriminate is a "right" worth defending.
 
2014-01-21 01:47:35 PM  

Phinn: Baz744: this bakery own remains free to believe homosexuality is immoral. He is not, however, free to discriminate against homosexuals in the public, commercial conduct of his business

The freedom of association says otherwise,


Can you direct me to any jurisprudence holding that a "freedom of association" protects a right to discriminate against anyone in the provision of public services?

but thanks for outlining the point where you think other people's freedoms end, control freak.

In constitutional terms, there is no right to discriminate against homosexuals in the provision of public services. My position that a person's public, commercial conduct is permissibly subject to state regulation is consistent with two centuries of American jurisprudence.

Your baseless, unprovoked personal attack reveals more about your character than mine. Are you man enough to apologize and acknowledge wrongdoing?

(shakes magic 8 ball)

"Signs point to 'no.'"
 
2014-01-21 01:48:11 PM  

CivicMindedFive: Agree or disagree with the personal views of the business owner, this is a sort of tyranny.  The guy has no problems selling cupcakes off the shelf to anybody.  Making a wedding cake is not the same.  It's an artistic endeavor.  Should some scary dumb hick christian be able to go to a gay liberal artist and ask, nay, demand, he paint them a picture of gays being burned in hell and sue the crap out of him if he refuses?


You added some content to your scenario here (gays being burned in hell) that makes your analogy a bit off target..

Tell me, what is the difference between a gay wedding cake and a straight one?  Side by side, could you tell the difference?  Just like the cupcakes.
 
2014-01-21 01:49:02 PM  
I would have just pissed in the cake at the very least.  Funny thing about farking with people that prepare your food.. it isn't a good idea to fark with people that prepare your food.

/had my dog pee in it too.
 
2014-01-21 01:49:05 PM  
Notto - "Segregationists used the Bible to justify their actions. "

That is an incorrect interpretation obviously.  As we all see, the Bible is misused and misquoted too much.  Boil it all down, God loves the sinner and hates the sin.  So do not contribute to the sinning action of others.
 
2014-01-21 01:49:26 PM  

mwfark: lennavan: mwfark: So a lady is forced to do something against her will in a supposedly free society, and some people call this progress. I call it tyranny, and while I personally disagree with her position, I do think she should have the right to run her business as she sees fit.

Someone is forcing this lady to run a cake business?  Shiat, I missed that part of the article.

They are forcing her to serve people she doesn't want to serve, or they're forcing her out of business. Yes - there is force involved, and that's a problem in a free society.


How do you feel about them not serving successful and attractive African Americans?
 
2014-01-21 01:49:28 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Freedom of association does not mean that a license-holder can deny use of the power granted by that license to another citizen for any reason.



Yes, it does.

Freedom of association means that neither you nor the government you empower has the legitimate ability to issue or withhold "licenses" based on people's compliance with your association demands.

Licensing is not carte blanche to control everything about a person's business.  If that's what the licensing law pretends to assert, then the licensing law is itself unethical.
 
2014-01-21 01:50:05 PM  

Guelph35: I don't agree with the bakery owner's decision, but when did sexual orientation become a protected class in regards to discrimination?


October 29, 2009

When it comes to Federal Law, anyway.
 
2014-01-21 01:50:20 PM  

sdd2000: Guelph35: I don't agree with the bakery owner's decision, but when did sexual orientation become a protected class in regards to discrimination?

In May 2008, the  passing of the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, or Senate Bill 200, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or transgender status in housing and public accommodations.


Lucky of us.
i43.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-21 01:50:23 PM  

Guelph35: I don't agree with the bakery owner's decision, but when did sexual orientation become a protected class in regards to discrimination?


I did not just read this.
 
2014-01-21 01:50:23 PM  
YOU MUST BE TOLERANT OF MY INTOLERANCE!

IT'S THE LAW!
 
2014-01-21 01:50:32 PM  

Hack Patooey: mwfark: lennavan: mwfark: So a lady is forced to do something against her will in a supposedly free society, and some people call this progress. I call it tyranny, and while I personally disagree with her position, I do think she should have the right to run her business as she sees fit.

Someone is forcing this lady to run a cake business?  Shiat, I missed that part of the article.

They are forcing her to serve people she doesn't want to serve, or they're forcing her out of business. Yes - there is force involved, and that's a problem in a free society.

How do you feel about them not serving successful and attractive African Americans?


That's fine, but the ugly poor ones have to go around back and pick from the trashcans.
 
2014-01-21 01:50:44 PM  

Phinn: Baz744: mwfark: So a lady is forced to do something against her will in a supposedly free society, and some people call this progress. I call it tyranny, and while I personally disagree with her position, I do think she should have the right to run her business as she sees fit.

In constitutional terms, no such right exists. The 10th Amendment says states have the right to police the health, safety, and morals of their residents; including by prohibiting immoral discrimination against homosexuals in provision of public services. I.e., states may permissibly punish evil people.

Forcing people to interact with other people is evil.


Nobody is forcing anyone to interact with anyone else. The baker may permissibly delegate the task he finds distasteful to an employee. Or, he may choose not to publicly sell baked goods at all.

Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.

My penis is four feet long.
 
2014-01-21 01:51:14 PM  

Baz744: In constitutional terms, there is no right to discriminate against homosexuals in the provision of public services.



There are no "public services."  That's an arbitrary construct, invented for the purpose of justifying the assertion of CONTROL over people's private lives.

And that's what makes you giddy -- control.
 
2014-01-21 01:51:24 PM  

notto: Tell me, what is the difference between a gay wedding cake and a straight one?  Side by side, could you tell the difference?  Just like the cupcakes.


Wedding cakes often have those cake topper things with a man and woman (or other combination of people). That might be a clue.
 
2014-01-21 01:52:20 PM  

Baz744: The baker may permissibly delegate the task he finds distasteful to an employee. Or, he may choose not to publicly sell baked goods at all.



That's not for you to say, control freak.
 
2014-01-21 01:52:36 PM  

TrotlineDesigns: I would have just pissed in the cake at the very least.  Funny thing about farking with people that prepare your food.. it isn't a good idea to fark with people that prepare your food.

/had my dog pee in it too.


Congratulations, you just elevated your criminal act from discrimination to something much worse, and will never get licensed from the state health inspector to run a food service business ever again.

Way to stick it to them homoqueers.
 
2014-01-21 01:52:46 PM  

Phinn: When you define what's "protected" by arbitrary rules, then there's no reason "political belief" can't become protected.


Well, cry me a river, Phinn. Until such point that humanity evolves to where it does not make decisions based on inherent stereotypical judgements and racial demographics, protected classes will be necessary.

In reality, our entire country was founded on the ideas of protected classes - namely freedom from religious doctrine in Government dealings, and the idea that the majority's tyranny through "popular opinion" should not determine policy.
 
2014-01-21 01:53:08 PM  
Meh, these bulls are just being martyrs. Anyone else would have gone home vented on their shiatty blog/Facebook, left a bad review on Yelp, and then found another baker. But in America when your feelings are hurt it's like someone just handed you a lawsuit lottery ticket for you to scratch off
 
2014-01-21 01:53:47 PM  

iheartscotch: I'm all for any business to refuse service; but, these guys did it the wrong way. Should have said that they were booked solid and couldn't possibly make another cake.


I'm going to agree in a limited way on principle, but this is a cake after all.   Its not required by law to stock same sex figures.  Refusing to at least substantially complete a "wedding cake" is where they went wrong.   They could have said. "We'll build you a cake like any other cake, but you'll have to provide your own topper if none of ours are suitable"..    I reluctantly support the principle of someone not providing spousal benefits IF the state you operate in does not recognize them.   The same for insurance provided birth control since the cost of buying your own generic pills at a pharmacy washes out from the cost of insurance anyway.

This is JUST A DAMN CAKE.   Make it and forget about it.  I've had enough years in retail management to know the time to argue with a paying customer is just about NEVER.   Obviously the cultural mores of Oregon seem to be that the community supports the lesbian couple.   I'd say that there must be other bakers that they could have gone to if their business took a hit financially.    It might have been enough to just hit them with public awareness

/BTW its quite common that one cannot legally provide food for sale out of a residential kitchen.   A visit from the local health board might have been the last nail in the coffin.
 
2014-01-21 01:53:48 PM  
This is a really tough issue, honest. I'm a super-Lib, and I just don't have the answer. On the one hand, discrimination against people of color is why this is an issue to begin with. If people weren't so thick-headed and backwards and would just love others 1/10 as they much as they love themselves this would all be over.

But that's never going to happen, people will always be tribal haters. So the question is then should we force business owners to serve people they don't want to serve? Logically no, people should be free to serve who they wish. It's their business, they are on the hook for P&L, it's their personal fortunes on the line, they have the most interest in doing right.

On the other hand, it was jag-offs like this who helped enforce Jim Crow laws. Their actions helped foster a separate and unequal society. If we allow people to openly discriminate then aren't we encouraging a return to this?

I do think that pharmacies have an obligation to sell to anyone. When it's someone's health in question, discrimination has to go. It just can't be. If you don't like selling things you don't feel are morally appropriate then I suggest another line of work. Would you be a paramedic and refuse to help drunk drivers?

The only action I see is the couple takes their business elsewhere and makes it plain and loud and clear to everyone what the bakery was up to. Let the free market and the neighborhood sort this one out. Not everything in the world needs a supreme court ruling.
 
2014-01-21 01:54:08 PM  

Phinn: Dr Dreidel: Freedom of association does not mean that a license-holder can deny use of the power granted by that license to another citizen for any reason.

Yes, it does.

Freedom of association means that neither you nor the government you empower has the legitimate ability to issue or withhold "licenses" based on people's compliance with your association demands.

Licensing is not carte blanche to control everything about a person's business.  If that's what the licensing law pretends to assert, then the licensing law is itself unethical.


www.leftycartoons.com
 
2014-01-21 01:54:13 PM  
Billygoat Gruff: But in America when your feelings are hurt civil rights are violated it's like someone just handed you a lawsuit lottery ticket for you to scratch off

FTFY.
 
2014-01-21 01:54:28 PM  

Phinn: Baz744: In constitutional terms, there is no right to discriminate against homosexuals in the provision of public services.

There are no "public services."  That's an arbitrary construct, invented for the purpose of justifying the assertion of CONTROL over people's private lives.

And that's what makes you giddy -- control.



Oh jesus christ give me a break.  So are you an anarchist, or do you just think that the government is "tyrannical" whenever it does something that you don't like?


I really wish I could drive 200 mph on the highway.  But the government, drunk on CONTROL, has told me that I can't do that.  When will this tyranny end?  Why can't I dump raw sewage in my front yard - ARE WE NOT A FREE SOCIETY?!?!??!
 
2014-01-21 01:54:38 PM  

Phinn: hardinparamedic: mark12A: Can't wait for the Neo-Nazi's to show up en masse on Fark preaching their crap, but private business owner Drew will be prevented BY LAW from throwing them out because DISCRIMINATION.

/It's a comfy bed you Libtards are setting up for yourselves.
//and yes, people WILL set up private bakeries, restaurants, etc. if this shiat gets much deeper, and America Balkanizes further....

Political belief is not a protected class.

When you define what's "protected" by arbitrary rules, then there's no reason "political belief" can't become protected.


If by "arbitrary rules" you mean "the legislative process," then sure. If you can get enough votes that can certainly happen.

But it's a stupid idea, so probably not.
 
2014-01-21 01:54:44 PM  

Mr. Right: So can a pro-abortion bakery owner be forced to make a Right To Life cake?  Can a black bakery owner be forced to make a cake for the anniversary celebration of the local KKK chapter?  Can a Kosher bakery owner be forced to bake a cake for a Neo-Nazi party?


Nope.
 
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