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(Venture Beat)   HP stock rises 8% after: a) resignation of its CEO, b) announcing a layoff of a couple of thousands of employees, or c) bringing back Windows 7   (venturebeat.com) divider line 69
    More: Obvious, Windows, VentureBeat, HuffPost  
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1937 clicks; posted to Business » on 20 Jan 2014 at 9:21 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-20 08:36:18 PM  
So, HP has a Chromebook and a Windows 7 edition. Trying to keep the PC business alive. Wonder if it will work?
/Somewhat surprised MS allowed this.
 
2014-01-20 09:29:21 PM  
i218.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-20 09:30:07 PM  
Does my browser deceive me, or is it 8:30 Central and there's only one story with one comment on the Business tab?
 
2014-01-20 09:30:19 PM  
If more manufacturers follow suit, the PC industry might be saved.
 
2014-01-20 09:33:42 PM  

General Tso's Chick'n McNuggets: If more manufacturers follow suit, the PC industry might be saved.


Imagine if HP shipped an Ubuntu PC, fully loaded with LibreOffice (or whatever)?
 
2014-01-20 09:34:32 PM  

simplicimus: General Tso's Chick'n McNuggets: If more manufacturers follow suit, the PC industry might be saved.

Imagine if HP shipped an Ubuntu PC, fully loaded with LibreOffice (or whatever)?


You'd get many tens of sales from that.
 
2014-01-20 09:37:38 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: simplicimus: General Tso's Chick'n McNuggets: If more manufacturers follow suit, the PC industry might be saved.

Imagine if HP shipped an Ubuntu PC, fully loaded with LibreOffice (or whatever)?

You'd get many tens of sales from that.


Put some ad bucks behind Linux and it would really take off. Right now, it's just us geeks who know it exists in the first place.
 
2014-01-20 09:45:11 PM  

simplicimus: Put some ad bucks behind Linux and it would really take off. Right now, it's just us geeks who know it exists in the first place.


Linux on the desktop had its chance.  It took a new platform and massively modifying the user interface to get people to use it.  And guess what - they still don't know its Linux.  As it should be.

/desktops are dead - get over it
 
2014-01-20 09:46:43 PM  
When one of your largest partners just told you in public that one of the latest versions of your product blows - maybe its time to listen.


img.fark.net
 
2014-01-20 09:48:52 PM  
You mean to say that businesses who have a history of using PC workstations don't want a tablet OS on their offices full of machines? Unthinkable.
 
2014-01-20 09:50:56 PM  

gingerjet: simplicimus: Put some ad bucks behind Linux and it would really take off. Right now, it's just us geeks who know it exists in the first place.

Linux on the desktop had its chance.  It took a new platform and massively modifying the user interface to get people to use it.  And guess what - they still don't know its Linux.  As it should be.

/desktops are dead - get over it


I guess I'm in the middle, then. Haven't bothered to repair my desktop. My laptop is powerful enough. I have an iPad I never use.
 
2014-01-20 09:53:20 PM  
Guess how I can tell nobody here used Windows 8 for more than a week?

Seriously, try using it for real. Everything is better when you start running it in regular desktop mode. Much better. Even the "tablet" mode.
 
2014-01-20 09:59:05 PM  

thecactusman17: Guess how I can tell nobody here used Windows 8 for more than a week?

Seriously, try using it for real. Everything is better when you start running it in regular desktop mode. Much better. Even the "tablet" mode.


Depends what you mean by using. I got my new laptop in October. It came with Windows 8. I stay in desktop mode, unless I'm in one of my VMs. The OS is solid as a rock. The Metro UI is just fugly.
 
2014-01-20 10:06:55 PM  
Now I know where I'm getting my next computer.
 
2014-01-20 10:09:55 PM  

thecactusman17: Guess how I can tell nobody here used Windows 8 for more than a week?

Seriously, try using it for real. Everything is better when you start running it in regular desktop mode. Much better. Even the "tablet" mode.


I don't hate 8. It's... fine... whatevs.... works for me.  Some of the stuff still isn't intuitive to me, but what is intuitive anyway?

Am I going to change my office of 50-something Sheilas and 60-something 'daily file losers' to it?  Oh, hell no.  Anything I can possibly do to avoid that.  And that's the market HP depends on.
 
2014-01-20 10:20:02 PM  

thecactusman17: Guess how I can tell nobody here used Windows 8 for more than a week?

Seriously, try using it for real. Everything is better when you start running it in regular desktop mode. Much better. Even the "tablet" mode.


Doesn't change the fact that W8 doesn't run in "regular desktop mode" by default.

Or the fact that its default mode has been so widely panned and poorly received that the term "regular desktop mode" had to be created to distinguish the mode which had been in use for almost 20 years from the default mode which W8 uses.


Imagine if Ford came out with a new version of the Mustang or F-150 which had incremental (or better) improvements over the old model in every quantifiable area, to the point where a retiree driving it with minimal effort could win a race against a Camaro or Silverado driven by a Nascar driver.... but the steering wheel and gas, brake and clutch pedals were replaced with the handlebar system currently in use in motorcycles. People would probably be less than thrilled with the unnecessary change, even if the car came with a conversion kit from the factory and the pensioner would be able to win using the standard control kit.

MS tried to fix something that wasn't broken -- a task which is generally not a good idea.

/sure, it's a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison, especially since neither the Mustang nor the F-150 have a 90% market share of all vehicles on the road
 
2014-01-20 10:22:16 PM  
Linux PC or a Mac?

It's not a hard choice.
 
2014-01-20 10:24:11 PM  
So I just checked out HP's online store, and in order to customize a laptop I have to make a phone call.

What?!
 
2014-01-20 10:26:11 PM  

thecactusman17: Guess how I can tell nobody here used Windows 8 for more than a week?

Seriously, try using it for real. Everything is better when you start running it in regular desktop mode. Much better. Even the "tablet" mode.


Start menu - not better
Shutting down - not better
Control Panel - not better
Wifi printer detection - not better
Pre-loaded themes - not better

What's better about Windows 8 over Windows 7? Nothing at the user interface level, at least. Maybe some better stuff under the hood. Who knows.
 
2014-01-20 10:32:37 PM  

dumbobruni: So I just checked out HP's online store, and in order to customize a laptop I have to make a phone call.

What?!


Not surprising. I worked for HP/Compaq for 10 years. Most execution of simple things is amazingly complex.
 
2014-01-20 10:37:52 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: What's better about Windows 8 over Windows 7? Nothing at the user interface level, at least. Maybe some better stuff under the hood. Who knows.


Remember, 8 is 7 with a service pack, 7 is Vista with a Service pack. It's all the same until you get to Metro, which sucks on non-tablets.

On tablets it works like an iPhone/Android and is awesome. If you need to do work with a mouse and keyboard it sucks so you have to stay in desktop mode. Knowing your keyboard shortcuts helps immensely.

/I hate the metro UI
//I got over it
///Windows 8 doesn't suck, and with classic shell it's like 7 with a tune-up.
 
2014-01-20 11:08:22 PM  
One of the reasons I built my own pc instead of buying one last year was so I could put 7 on it when everything else was shipping with 8.

Also, playing with parts is fun.
 
2014-01-20 11:22:05 PM  

simplicimus: General Tso's Chick'n McNuggets: If more manufacturers follow suit, the PC industry might be saved.

Imagine if HP shipped an Ubuntu PC, fully loaded with LibreOffice (or whatever)?


Imagine if Libre/Open Office wasn't still complete shiat.

But ya, shipping a PC with a nifty version of Linux would be nice.
 
2014-01-20 11:23:43 PM  

Wireless Joe: Does my browser deceive me, or is it 8:30 Central and there's only one story with one comment on the Business tab?


US markets are closed for MLK, so very few press releases/entertainment sources for the business world today.

/bought a high-end laptop as an as-new/refurb precisely because it ran 7 and not 8.
//wonders how much Microsoft's enterprise customers would pay for blessed media for XP SP4 and a Win7 SP2
///cries, knowing no matter how much the users would be willing to pay, there's too much ego riding on the-interface-known-as-Metro for Microsoft to acquiesce to customer demand
 
2014-01-20 11:52:38 PM  
Just wanted to mention to all you "Desktops are dead" types that I'm currently on the road, and writing this with a tablet. Even with a bluetooth keyboard its a pain in the ass.

Can't wait to get home tomorrow and go back to using my "obsolete" desktop with 24 inch monitor and full sized keyboard.
 
2014-01-21 12:00:19 AM  
We just moved everything to 7 within the last year, except one thing that should be running on a Linux OS or VXWorks or something other than windows, but sales drives development, not engineering...
 
2014-01-21 12:06:50 AM  

simplicimus: General Tso's Chick'n McNuggets: If more manufacturers follow suit, the PC industry might be saved.

Imagine if HP shipped an Ubuntu PC, fully loaded with LibreOffice (or whatever)?


They do ship a very cheap Linux laptop loaded with a free office suite.

It's called a Chromebook.
 
2014-01-21 12:13:53 AM  
I have 8 on my home computer and I've begrudgingly come to appreciate the improvements in the desktop mode and in the OS overall.  A colleague of mine got a touchscreen laptop at work, however, and it defaults everything into Metro mode, even if you launch it from the desktop.  I don't know if that's a function of having a touchscreen present, but it's a royal pain in the ass.  If I launch Office 2013 from the desktop on my home computer, it launches Office like it's done for the past 20 years.  On his machine it creates a full screen Office "slide" in Metro and you have to use that ridiculous hot corner to get back to desktop mode.  I'm sure there's a way to turn it off, but I consider his laptop to be near unusable.  Copying and pasting between documents is an exercise in self-abuse.

And Windows 9 better have a hierarchical start menu.  If Apple can create folders on a goddamn iPhone to store app shortcuts, Microsoft can farking do it for their OS.
 
2014-01-21 12:24:02 AM  
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

\I tried a couple of free start replacements for windows 8 - they sucked compared to start8
\\yeah yeah ymmv
 
2014-01-21 12:29:06 AM  
My parents bought a laptop from HP.  It had windows 8.  My 80 year old parents would not be able to navigate it.  I installed Windows 7, (they are used to that), and the drivers did not load.  I called HP and they said the only way to get the Windows 7 drivers was a paid support plan.

I told them my parents could just return it.  They did and I tuned up their old computer.  They are happy and HP is out about 800.00.  I wonder if so many people did that it cut into their profits.?

/Hate windows 8.
//Like it about as much as Windows ME.
 
2014-01-21 02:14:53 AM  
While it has under the hood improvements, I can't begin to tell you what a PITA Win8 has been for my customers.  The upside is that by virtue of their shortsightedness, Microsoft is by default putting my kids through college.  I ought not complain too much.

And seriously, anyone that thinks that Win8 is an improvement in the UI department really suffers badly from OS stockholm syndrome.
 
2014-01-21 02:52:28 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: What's better about Windows 8 over Windows 7? Nothing at the user interface level, at least. Maybe some better stuff under the hood. Who knows.


You ever try to use Windows 7 with a 24" 4K monitor? How about Win 7 with multiple size/resolution monitors (say a 19 inch at 1280x800 and a 24" at 1920x1200)? It farking blows. Icons and menus go from being tiny to GIANT.

On Windows 8, it scales each monitor by resolution and PPI, so things look nearly identical between screens. 4K monitors don't make everything microscopic with Win8.

And if you do happen to be using Win8 on a device that also acts as a tablet, it's world's ahead of anything else out there.

/works on a Surface Pro 2 w/ 4 external monitors, a 29" wide (2560x1080), 27" inch at 2560x1280, and a pair of 24" @ 1920x1200 each.
//a tablet that's pushing over 8 million pixels.
///however it can drive two 4k monitors natively.
 
2014-01-21 03:04:15 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Linux PC or a Mac?

It's not a hard choice.


I have a hackintosh Acer laptop that runs both mac os and a Mac that runs windows. My PC can also boot unbuntu. I never use Ubuntu though. Only deal with linux when one of my Dev nerds sends me a site wrapped in a Linux VM. Oh and I guess when I use my phone.
 
2014-01-21 03:08:42 AM  

Zulthar: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

\I tried a couple of free start replacements for windows 8 - they sucked compared to start8
\\yeah yeah ymmv


Using startisback on my win8.1 gaming rig and my work PC.

No complaints about 8. There's a lot of nifty things built into 8. Like the ability to natively mount an ISO.
 
2014-01-21 05:04:31 AM  

tripleseven: AverageAmericanGuy: Linux PC or a Mac?

It's not a hard choice.

I have a hackintosh Acer laptop that runs both mac os and a Mac that runs windows. My PC can also boot unbuntu. I never use Ubuntu though. Only deal with linux when one of my Dev nerds sends me a site wrapped in a Linux VM. Oh and I guess when I use my phone.


Hackintosh user, eh?

How long have you been doing it for? Me, I have done it since 2008.
 
2014-01-21 05:15:59 AM  

MrSteve007: And if you do happen to be using Win8 on a device that also acts as a tablet, it's world's ahead of anything else out there.

/works on a Surface Pro 2 w/ 4 external monitors, a 29" wide (2560x1080), 27" inch at 2560x1280, and a pair of 24" @ 1920x1200 each.
//a tablet that's pushing over 8 million pixels.
///however it can drive two 4k monitors natively.


Here you are again, like you are in every single Windows thread, using marketspeak to push the latest MS stuff, because you are, in fact, a paid shill for MS. Seriously Steve you get punked on in every thread until you get blue in the face and start posting pictures of your family and declaring all your enemies to be fools like you did last time.
 
2014-01-21 05:20:36 AM  

MrSteve007: You ever try to use Windows 7 with a 24" 4K monitor? How about Win 7 with multiple size/resolution monitors (say a 19 inch at 1280x800 and a 24" at 1920x1200)? It farking blows. Icons and menus go from being tiny to GIANT.


I have exactly this setup (actually a 24" and a 23" monitor, different resolutions). You're full of shiat.
 
2014-01-21 05:26:58 AM  

Old enough to know better: Just wanted to mention to all you "Desktops are dead" types that I'm currently on the road, and writing this with a tablet. Even with a bluetooth keyboard its a pain in the ass.

Can't wait to get home tomorrow and go back to using my "obsolete" desktop with 24 inch monitor and full sized keyboard.


This.  It may be shrinking, but the vocal complaints about Win8 mean people still need the desktop interface (windowed/mouse/keyboard), and tablets are still an accessory.  Otherwise people would just happily flock to iPad/Android.  I would imagine a (relatively) significant number of people are switching to Mac.

Somebody needs to implement the obvious future state where you have a portable phone or small tablet that docks and switches to Win7/OSX-like desktop mode.  The hardware is at the point where it's powerful enough for most consumers.  MS was so close with having this dual mode, but they farked up the execution.
 
2014-01-21 06:26:52 AM  

thecactusman17: Guess how I can tell nobody here used Windows 8 for more than a week?

Seriously, try using it for real. Everything is better when you start running it in regular desktop mode. Much better. Even the "tablet" mode.


I've used Windows 8 for several months. While the OS seems solid and things seem to work faster than 7 or XP, the interface and full-screen "Metro" apps are a pain in the rear. After the 8.1 update, I installed Classic Shell and haven't regretted it for a second. And I am using a touch-screen laptop.

Two VERY annoying things about 8.1 - (1) MS insistent persistence in trying to force me into having a "cloud" computer. If I wanted a cloud computer, I would have a Chromebook. (2) These giant freaking "instructional" arrows on the edge of the screen that stayed on top of everything and WOULD NOT GO AWAY until I directly interacted with them. WTF Microsoft? I know what the screen gestures are, which is why I've turned them off.

On an unrelated note, my current laptops (Lenovo for work, Asus for non-employer stuff) seem to have hypersensitive trackpads (how the heck did I just do THAT?). I've resorted to wireless mice for both.
 
2014-01-21 06:40:12 AM  

MrSteve007: You ever try to use Windows 7 with a 24" 4K monitor?


No, because buying a 4K screen to sit 18 inches in front of my face would be retarded.
 
2014-01-21 07:25:38 AM  

jaytkay: No, because buying a 4K screen to sit 18 inches in front of my face would be retarded.


Not to mention that a "cheap" 4k monitor is $1200.  Your average user isn't going to shell that out for a screen that isn't in the living room.
 
2014-01-21 07:46:28 AM  
Lord that's dumb.  Windows 8 is a better OS if you get rid of the UI clutter.
I guess selling it with Start8 and ModernMix preinstalled doesn't have the same marketing power.
 
2014-01-21 07:52:19 AM  
I'm using windows 8 in desktop mode. It's got Skype running in the background, and no notification on the taskbar. When my speakers are muted, you get no alert someone is calling you.

After not being able to add an email address to a contact from the mail app in 8.0, pretty sure that it's being thrown out the door and nobody gives two shiats at Microsoft. Just nod your head, and maybe if your boss's idea is stupid enough he'll get fired and you can move up.

8 would be a freaking nightmare to deploy in an office, simply because of the UI change.
 
2014-01-21 08:04:49 AM  
Funny that the OEM that's doing good(Lenovo) have no problem sells W8 machines. HP might be trying the cheap route by selling PC's without touchscreens and paying less for retraining support for W8. It's also much easier to remove bloat form W8 start screen for your average Joe than going to the Control Panel in 7 or 8(I know people who never even opened the Control Panel)
 
2014-01-21 08:28:42 AM  
One more thing: What is a PC? Anything on x86, because that would include Chromebooks, Macs, and Linux boxes and now consoles. Anything that runs x86 and Windows? That would include Xbox One.
 
2014-01-21 08:29:41 AM  
OMFG, what the hell. Microsoft, just come out with "Windows 8 Desktop Edition" or something, and scrap the friggin full screen BS, it'll all be good.

So simple.
 
2014-01-21 08:29:54 AM  

snow9999: My parents bought a laptop from HP.  It had windows 8.  My 80 year old parents would not be able to navigate it.  I installed Windows 7, (they are used to that), and the drivers did not load.  I called HP and they said the only way to get the Windows 7 drivers was a paid support plan.

I told them my parents could just return it.  They did and I tuned up their old computer.  They are happy and HP is out about 800.00.  I wonder if so many people did that it cut into their profits.?

/Hate windows 8.
//Like it about as much as Windows ME.


My 87 year old grandmother has adapted to Win 8 okay.  She wasn't a wizard with Win 7 and she's not a wizard with Win 8.
 
2014-01-21 09:35:20 AM  

tripleseven: Zulthar: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

\I tried a couple of free start replacements for windows 8 - they sucked compared to start8
\\yeah yeah ymmv

Using startisback on my win8.1 gaming rig and my work PC.

No complaints about 8. There's a lot of nifty things built into 8. Like the ability to natively mount an ISO.


CLassicShell on my ASUS laptop.  No complaints about 8/8.1. I might like Metro if I had a tablet with it. And agreed on the additions to win 8. I need to load a lot less 3rd party items (like VirtualCloneDrive) My only nit is with my work (their issue) as the VPN doesn't recognize windows 8.1 yet. VirtualBox and a Win 7 VM for that.
 
2014-01-21 09:36:45 AM  
Windows 7 still tolerates dual boot.  Windows 8 is designed to throw a tantrum if it isn't the only OS on a machine.
 
2014-01-21 10:17:09 AM  

simplicimus: So, HP has a Chromebook and a Windows 7 edition. Trying to keep the PC business alive. Wonder if it will work?
/Somewhat surprised MS allowed this.



Microsoft knows it made a huge blunder.  Hardware vendors aren't happy and no businesses are going to 8.  If the rumors are true, Windows 8/Metro will be dead and buried a little more than a year from now so letting vendors sell what the customer actually wants until 9 is released helps restore a bit of good will.
 
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