If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Onion AV Club)   "CBS's Elementary is better than PBS's Sherlock." LOLWUT?   (avclub.com) divider line 168
    More: Fail, PBS, Sherlock Holmes, BBC drama, CBS, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Mark Gatiss, British television, Steven Adler  
•       •       •

3317 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 20 Jan 2014 at 1:22 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



168 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-20 10:40:34 AM  
Completely, absolutely agree.  I expected to HATE Elementary, but I was hooked from the first episode.  Kudos to the A.V. Club for noticing!
 
2014-01-20 12:01:06 PM  
The article is just a bullshiat opinion piece designed to stir up controversy.

The U.K. format of a series with a few longer episodes is far superior than the typical U.S. method of dragging things out, often with
weak subplots so then can milk it for as long as possible. Even shows that are considered the best of U.S. television, including
shorter season shows like Sons of Anarchy, Breaking Bad and The Walking Dead have things the don't really propel or enhance
the main narrative.
 
2014-01-20 12:42:47 PM  
TL;DR version: Sherlock only has 3 episodes a season, Elementary has 26.

I don't care that there isn't secondary character development in Sherlock. Cumberbatch is Holmes from the stories, Miller is Holmes after he hits rock bottom and gets clean. I like both shows, but let's not kid ourselves as to which the better adaptation of Doyle's work is.
 
2014-01-20 12:43:39 PM  
I like Elementary and am working through my DVR backlog of them, but come on, Sherlock is way, way, better.
 
2014-01-20 12:57:52 PM  

Some Bass Playing Guy: bullshiat opinion piece


Some Bass Playing Guy: The U.K. format of a series with a few longer episodes is far superior


Go on...

/not that i disagree with your opinion...
 
2014-01-20 01:02:28 PM  
I've never seen Elementary but this season of Sherlock was pretty disappointing to me. They seem to have forgotten the show was once about mysteries.
 
2014-01-20 01:27:48 PM  
The only reason to watch Elementary: Lucy Liu.
 
2014-01-20 01:27:53 PM  
Having not read the article, and having not seen Sherlock, I feel compelled to state that there's an important Lucy Liu factor that likely needs to be considered in the bigger matrix here.
 
2014-01-20 01:28:35 PM  
CSB. I love them both.
 
2014-01-20 01:28:48 PM  
I really would like some time off in Liu.
 
2014-01-20 01:28:51 PM  
img854.imageshack.us
 
2014-01-20 01:30:13 PM  
Tried watching Sherlock. Hated it.

Never saw Elementary, but I don't think that any character has annoyed me more than Sherlock.

The only good thing about it is Watson.
 
2014-01-20 01:31:00 PM  
PBS makes Sherlock? Because I was 100% sure the BBC did that show.
 
2014-01-20 01:32:11 PM  
Apples and oranges. I don't know why you'd compare the two.  One is a serialized TV show. The other is essentially a series of movies.

Expecting Elementary to have the same production values and quality acting over 26 hours as Elementary does over 4.5 hours per season is unreasonable. Expecting Sherlock to fit 26 hours worth of character development and plot lines into 4.5 hours is equally unreasonable.


I've actually enjoyed them both. Sherlock is awesome, but Elementary is fun and fills the massive gaps between series of Sherlock.
 
2014-01-20 01:33:50 PM  

Foxxinnia: PBS makes Sherlock? Because I was 100% sure the BBC did that show.


Produced by BBC Wales I believe, but co-funded by PBS and others.
 
2014-01-20 01:33:55 PM  
I agree with this article. I think the acting is better in Sherlock, and it's more true to the books, but overall, Elementary is a better show.
 
2014-01-20 01:34:01 PM  

Foxxinnia: PBS makes Sherlock? Because I was 100% sure the BBC did that show.


PBS is airing the third series, but yes, it's a BBC show.
 
2014-01-20 01:36:21 PM  
The CBS Elementary is just a boring American Procedural. They have to create 26 hours of content a year so they pull out any and every cliched storyline possible and it ends up being entirely predictable and bland.

Sherlock is a much stronger show, with stronger actors, stronger storylines, etc.
 
2014-01-20 01:38:11 PM  

Confabulat: I've never seen Elementary but this season of Sherlock was pretty disappointing to me. They seem to have forgotten the show was once about mysteries.


Wasn't the first episode of the season just on last night?  Seems a bit early to judge the whole season

They had some pretty major things they had to resolve along with the fact that it takes place two years later.  They managed to do that while establishing a longer story arc (who/why drugged Watson), solving a terrorist plot, and a minor mystery (the Jack the Ripper set up) while moving some interesting character development forward.  I thought the whole Mycroft/Sherlock interaction was great.

The focus will switch back to the mysteries, but they had to focus on the fallout from the prior season to now.
 
mhd
2014-01-20 01:38:58 PM  
They're both a lot worse than the Jeremy Brett version.

/Aspiebloitation
 
2014-01-20 01:40:24 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Confabulat: I've never seen Elementary but this season of Sherlock was pretty disappointing to me. They seem to have forgotten the show was once about mysteries.

Wasn't the first episode of the season just on last night?  Seems a bit early to judge the whole season

They had some pretty major things they had to resolve along with the fact that it takes place two years later.  They managed to do that while establishing a longer story arc (who/why drugged Watson), solving a terrorist plot, and a minor mystery (the Jack the Ripper set up) while moving some interesting character development forward.  I thought the whole Mycroft/Sherlock interaction was great.

The focus will switch back to the mysteries, but they had to focus on the fallout from the prior season to now.


I have already seen all of Season Three on BBC1 through a streaming website.  Last night was the first episode of season three for PBS/Masterpiece in the US.  The Empty Hearse wasn't great, but it picks up speed in E2 and E3.
 
2014-01-20 01:40:48 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Wasn't the first episode of the season just on last night?  Seems a bit early to judge the whole season


All three episodes have already aired in the U.K.

Many people outside of the U.K. found ways to acquire those episodes and have watched them already.
 
2014-01-20 01:41:28 PM  
I watched Elementary a few times and I never saw Sherlock do any Sherlocking. Like no sleuthing. He just whines about being a drug addict while Lucy Liu looks on. Of course the dude who plays him was married to Angelina Jolie when she was young and hot and psycho and bisexual and childless so he can pretty much just coast through the rest of his life.
 
2014-01-20 01:41:34 PM  
I'll take the AV Club's word for it that "Elementary" has strong supporting characters. But I'm just not interested in a standard procedural with "conventional pacing."
 
2014-01-20 01:41:47 PM  
The head writer for Sherlock has even said there is a distinction between the two... one (Sherlock), being a show about the detective, while Elementary is clearly a detective show...
 
2014-01-20 01:46:40 PM  
*cough*BULLshiat*cough*
 
2014-01-20 01:48:33 PM  
Or perhaps they both suck, just in different ways.  I enjoyed the first season of Sherlock (except for the mildly offensive Chinese stereotypes), the second season stunk, and the third season just basically indicated that the writers had nothing but contempt for its fans.  For Elementary, well, I didn't think it was all that interesting.  I can't think of much I've seen in the past several years on network TV that's been interesting.

\Fringe, maybe?
 
2014-01-20 01:49:42 PM  

Mugato: I watched Elementary a few times and I never saw Sherlock do any Sherlocking. Like no sleuthing. He just whines about being a drug addict while Lucy Liu looks on. Of course the dude who plays him was married to Angelina Jolie when she was young and hot and psycho and bisexual and childless so he can pretty much just coast through the rest of his life.


The show does progress and improve after they establish Watson's reason for being there and get all the players in place.

I look at it this way: Sherlock, being that the episodes are 90 minutes long and there are three per season, is more like a long movie series in terms of quality, pacing, etc.. Elementary is a crime procedural in which they have time to get to know the characters a bit more, but it definitely shows in the pacing and story quality sometimes.

Both are good, but they're entirely different things.

Anyway, give Elementary another try. It does get to the sleuthing after a while, and some of the mysteries are really quite good.
 
2014-01-20 01:49:51 PM  
I'd consider checking out Elementary, but CBS doesn't seem to keep entire seasons of their content available on any streaming service in order for me to catch up so I'm not going to bother with it.

Sherlock, however, is awesome.

I think it's better to leave the audience hungry for more than overdose them on a steady diet of filler, so the argument that more is better doesn't work well for me.
 
2014-01-20 01:52:21 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Confabulat: I've never seen Elementary but this season of Sherlock was pretty disappointing to me. They seem to have forgotten the show was once about mysteries.

Wasn't the first episode of the season just on last night?  Seems a bit early to judge the whole season

They had some pretty major things they had to resolve along with the fact that it takes place two years later.  They managed to do that while establishing a longer story arc (who/why drugged Watson), solving a terrorist plot, and a minor mystery (the Jack the Ripper set up) while moving some interesting character development forward.  I thought the whole Mycroft/Sherlock interaction was great.

The focus will switch back to the mysteries, but they had to focus on the fallout from the prior season to now.


Which is great if they have more than three episodes per season, but a real pain in the ass when we have to wait another year or two before seeing what the hell happens next.

Which is why Elementary is perfectly fine for filling the gap in-between.

/That, and Lucy Liu in skirts.
//Her legs are just plain nice to look at.
 
2014-01-20 01:52:45 PM  
I don't know I love BBC Sherlock but after watching it first, I have a hard time getting into Elementary (granted I've only watched the pilot)
 
2014-01-20 01:53:18 PM  
The author talks about "six episodes of Sherlock" so they apparently haven't seen the new series.

Elementary would benefit from doing fewer episodes (12-18 instead of 24).  Sherlock would benefit from doing more (say six a series).
 
2014-01-20 01:53:27 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-20 01:53:46 PM  
Apples to Oranges. And like Apples and Oranges, I like both.
 
2014-01-20 01:56:49 PM  
The Mentalist is better than both.

/ducks under desk.
 
2014-01-20 01:58:41 PM  

ZeroCorpse: Anyway, give Elementary another try. It does get to the sleuthing after a while, and some of the mysteries are really quite good.


That's cool. I only saw like 3 episodes so I can't really judge it.

Seems like a lot of these procedural cop shows are about "consultants" rather than actual cops. Elementary, Psych, The Mentalist, Person of Interest, Castle, even Sleepy Hollow and Intelligence, they're all about guys who help the police but aren't really the police. Is is because everyone hates cops? I don't even watch any of them except Psych (sometimes Castle because the girl is hawt) but that's what it looks like.

/hey speaking of TV, Archer on tonight
 
2014-01-20 02:01:32 PM  
I enjoy Elementary but it's no Twin Peaks.
 
2014-01-20 02:04:23 PM  

Mugato: I watched Elementary a few times and I never saw Sherlock do any Sherlocking. Like no sleuthing. He just whines about being a drug addict while Lucy Liu looks on. Of course the dude who plays him was married to Angelina Jolie when she was young and hot and psycho and bisexual and childless so he can pretty much just coast through the rest of his life.


So that puts it on par with the Nolan Batman movies.
 
2014-01-20 02:04:31 PM  

Mugato: Seems like a lot of these procedural cop shows are about "consultants" rather than actual cops. Elementary, Psych, The Mentalist, Person of Interest, Castle, even Sleepy Hollow and Intelligence, they're all about guys who help the police but aren't really the police. Is is because everyone hates cops? I don't even watch any of them except Psych (sometimes Castle because the girl is hawt) but that's what it looks like.


1) Because they're all based off of the original Sherlock Holmes in some way, and he was a "consulting detective" with healthy contempt for the police (at the time Conan Doyle was writing, the London PD was about 40 years old and they'd only just established the detective squad at Scotland Yard).

2) An independent detective doesn't have his hands tied by laws, procedures and good practices the way that law enforcement do.

I just started watching Psych and Dule Hill's character spends a good amount of time whining that what they're about to do is illegal.
 
2014-01-20 02:11:13 PM  

thalassatx: Completely, absolutely agree.  I expected to HATE Elementary, but I was hooked from the first episode.  Kudos to the A.V. Club for noticing!


I couldn't believe Elementary would be good, considering it seems to be designed by committee and should have just blended in with a dozen police procedurals. Changing Watson to be female seems to only be because American audiences would expect it, not because it seems to add to the story.  And the stuff CSI or NCIS come up with in their lab are about as believable as Sherlock's deductions, and we already had US-based stellar, observant detectives (The Mentalist, or even Psych for comedy)

But like thalassatx I am hooked too, although I disagree that it's better. It's just different.
 
2014-01-20 02:13:14 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: I just started watching Psych and Dule Hill's character spends a good amount of time whining that what they're about to do is illegal.


Yeah, Gus is the "straight man" of the team. It was a good show, one the three or so I watch regularly but this season is kind of weird.
 
2014-01-20 02:13:22 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Mugato: Seems like a lot of these procedural cop shows are about "consultants" rather than actual cops. Elementary, Psych, The Mentalist, Person of Interest, Castle, even Sleepy Hollow and Intelligence, they're all about guys who help the police but aren't really the police. Is is because everyone hates cops? I don't even watch any of them except Psych (sometimes Castle because the girl is hawt) but that's what it looks like.

1) Because they're all based off of the original Sherlock Holmes in some way, and he was a "consulting detective" with healthy contempt for the police (at the time Conan Doyle was writing, the London PD was about 40 years old and they'd only just established the detective squad at Scotland Yard).

2) An independent detective doesn't have his hands tied by laws, procedures and good practices the way that law enforcement do.

I just started watching Psych and Dule Hill's character spends a good amount of time whining that what they're about to do is illegal.


Plus, the "consultants" are generally offbeat, quirky characters who couldn't be a cop, even though they're usually better at the job than 10 cops combined.
 
2014-01-20 02:14:11 PM  
I think comparing TV shows is a complete waste of time.

I watch Elementary and I enjoy it tremendously. Jonny Lee Miller is fascinating to watch in the role, and the characters are actually and definitively progressing, which separates it from most procedurals.
 
2014-01-20 02:15:11 PM  

Mugato: ZeroCorpse: Anyway, give Elementary another try. It does get to the sleuthing after a while, and some of the mysteries are really quite good.

That's cool. I only saw like 3 episodes so I can't really judge it.

Seems like a lot of these procedural cop shows are about "consultants" rather than actual cops. Elementary, Psych, The Mentalist, Person of Interest, Castle, even Sleepy Hollow and Intelligence, they're all about guys who help the police but aren't really the police. Is is because everyone hates cops? I don't even watch any of them except Psych (sometimes Castle because the girl is hawt) but that's what it looks like.

/hey speaking of TV, Archer on tonight


It's easier to write around when you don't have to worry about things like search warrants, calling for back up, etc.  There are shows that do that interesting and very well, but for the most part it's easier to write a role that is less defined and that you can play with the rules for.
 
2014-01-20 02:16:19 PM  

ukexpat: The only reason to watch Elementary: Lucy Liu.


That is if you like asians whored up with gigantic eyelashes, a thick lair of makeup, and 6 inch heels
 
2014-01-20 02:17:42 PM  
Iron Man is best Sherlock.
 
2014-01-20 02:17:51 PM  

kkinnison: ukexpat: The only reason to watch Elementary: Lucy Liu.

That is if you like asians whored up with gigantic eyelashes, a thick lair of makeup, and 6 inch heels


What's your point, speller boy?
 
2014-01-20 02:19:06 PM  

Mugato: Dwight_Yeast: I just started watching Psych and Dule Hill's character spends a good amount of time whining that what they're about to do is illegal.

Yeah, Gus is the "straight man" of the team. It was a good show, one the three or so I watch regularly but this season is kind of weird.


Well, the season started off with an episode that ignored the current serialized plot (or you could count the musical that ignored even its own rules) and the next episode is a remake of a season 1 episode.  As much as I used to like Psych, it really needs to end now.  It has completely run out of steam.

I tried watching the first few episodes of Elementary and just couldn't get into it.  It seemed like yet another CBS procedural that didn't really bring anything new to the table.  I think House did a better job of adapting Sherlock for America than Elementary.
 
2014-01-20 02:21:11 PM  
Then again, you guys love the Big Bang Theory
 
2014-01-20 02:24:17 PM  

nmrsnr: TL;DR version: Sherlock only has 3 episodes a season, Elementary has 26.

I don't care that there isn't secondary character development in Sherlock. Cumberbatch is Holmes from the stories, Miller is Holmes after he hits rock bottom and gets clean. I like both shows, but let's not kid ourselves as to which the better adaptation of Doyle's work is.


This. I laugh at the way Cumberbiatch stumbles through normal interaction. Comparing him to Johnny is disingenuous. I like the way Johnny plays the character as well, still having trouble with human interaction, whereas Benedict is still playing Holmes who can't keep his mouth shut for the life of him. Saying wildly inappropriate things that other people filter.

That's why people like Benedict, he makes it believable that a grown man has zero filter around other people. He just can't get over his own brilliance and thinks everyone will forgive him just because he's right, and criminals will bow before his massive intellect ego. He is the high functioning sociopath with no thoughts about the feelings of others, except Watson. So, about the emotional acumen of a 5 year old.

Johnny's character does it to get people angry (more often than not) realizing it's a good tool to make people slip up. However, he's also been humbled by his own mouth enough to realize that (sometimes) shutting up is a good idea too. He still runs his mouth, but he's got a rudimentary filter. Say, the emotional filter of a 7 year old.
 
Displayed 50 of 168 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report