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(GigaOM)   I am Mouse of Borg, resistance is futile. Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward you will service us if you want to visit Disney World   (gigaom.com) divider line 149
    More: Obvious, Disney, big data, mice, Cinderella  
•       •       •

15855 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jan 2014 at 10:21 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



149 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

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2014-01-20 01:55:14 PM
You know who else liked armbands and total control?
 
2014-01-20 01:55:49 PM

Cybernetic: Overall, it's everything to do with data mining on every level isboth cool and creepy at the same time because of all the cool stuff it lets you do.


FTFY.
 
2014-01-20 02:01:55 PM

Gordon Bennett: You know who else liked armbands and total control?


Girl Scouts?
 
2014-01-20 02:02:26 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-20 02:08:37 PM
Wonder when Disney will see the value in selling their data to Google.
 
2014-01-20 02:16:30 PM
thinksocialmedia.com

                                           "What EVER!  I do what I want!"
 
2014-01-20 02:16:38 PM

SleepingEye: You realized you just compared a sit-down, full service restaurant price with a fast food joint price, right?


Hunh? The original comment said a cheeseburger at EPCOT costs $19. I posted a recent photo of the menu at EPCOT's counter service "Magic Umbrella" joint, which is nearly 1/2 the price.
http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2013/08/26/review-new-macaroni-an d-ch ees e-burger-at-epcots-electric-umbrella/

Although it you want to get into Disney food pricing, I had $90 upcharge for my steak  at Victoria & Alberts, which has a $135 a seat.

/It was worth every penny.
 
2014-01-20 02:27:07 PM

MrSteve007: SleepingEye: You realized you just compared a sit-down, full service restaurant price with a fast food joint price, right?

Hunh? The original comment said a cheeseburger at EPCOT costs $19. I posted a recent photo of the menu at EPCOT's counter service "Magic Umbrella" joint, which is nearly 1/2 the price.
http://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2013/08/26/review-new-macaroni-an d-ch ees e-burger-at-epcots-electric-umbrella/

Although it you want to get into Disney food pricing, I had $90 upcharge for my steak  at Victoria & Alberts, which has a $135 a seat.

/It was worth every penny.


Steer clear of the Brown Derby.  The food was terrible.
 
2014-01-20 02:36:09 PM

CleanAndPure: Never seen the attraction of Disneyworld.

Standing around in lines all day surrounded by whining spoiled kids and massive throngs of sweaty people in high humidity.

Sounds more like torture than pleasure to me.

ps3media.ign.com

media.screened.com

Well, there's that, and of course when the Pirates of the Caribean breaks down, they don't eat you.  Which is nice.

/must go faster
 
2014-01-20 02:42:57 PM

divx88: I was always in bewilderment how they kept the stench of "backstage" from the park. I mean almost immediately when you leave the park to an employee area you're hit with a strong garbage stench which there's no trace of a couple feet from where you just were.


They use a variety of methods from planting fragrant plants near the entrances to aerial perfume scattered around the park.
 
2014-01-20 02:54:05 PM
As someone who is taking his family to Disney in 4 days, I'm getting a kick...

My wife is a life-long Disney fan, as in her parents took their family every other year for 20 years. She is also an IT geek and she went nuts for these wrist bands.

I, on the other hand, hate all this tracking stuff and am a big fan of personal privacy. So while she's getting all excited about going to Disney and trying out all this new tech (we haven't told the boys we're going, we're just going to drive to the airport, get on a plane, and let them figure it out), I'm dreading being tracked, cataloged, studied, and data-plotted as I try to enjoy it with my family. I don't much care about Disney, and the last time we went three years ago (my first time ever), I was all, "THIS is what all the fuss is about?!? Meh." I'm still that way, but now that the boys are 5 and 8, maybe they'll have more fun and that's really what it's about.

But for at least one of our days, you can bet I will swap bands with my wife. Let their data tracker try to figure out why a 43-year-old man was spending so much time in the ladies' room. I don't have to like it, but I intend to be the outlier on their data set that gets discarded in analysis. It's really the only thing we can do to maintain a modicum of anonymity beyond not going at all.
 
2014-01-20 03:16:49 PM

JerkStore: But for at least one of our days, you can bet I will swap bands with my wife. Let their data tracker try to figure out why a 43-year-old man was spending so much time in the ladies' room. I don't have to like it, but I intend to be the outlier on their data set that gets discarded in analysis. It's really the only thing we can do to maintain a modicum of anonymity beyond not going at all.


What's cute is that you think you weren't being put into the system before. Unless you booked your previous trip using a fake ID and paid for everything in cash, their systems knew who you were, where you live, your preferred resort, what you ate, your kids ages, and what you purchased (via credit & debit card logs). If you stand out, in one way or another, they'll hand enter data about you during resort check-in too. (Guest is combative. Guest has food allergy. etc)

The Magic Bands change almost none of that. All they add is simple proximity data (the long-range sensors only work to about 15 feet out). They'll know you entered into Fantasyland, but not individual rides (unless you fastpass into the ride). They won't know a single thing about who went to what restroom and where - so unless you plan on separating and visiting different parks than your wife, swapping bands will do almost nothing to the data. A cute idea, and nice if it makes you feel empowered somehow - but it doesn't change the fact it won't really mess with their dataset.
 
2014-01-20 03:20:28 PM

Mugato: Diogenes: Except how to keep the parks fresh and updated.  Universal's much more aggressive in that respect.

Universal is making more Harry Potter shiat but Disney is revamping their Fantasy Land and they're making an Avatar land and turning Tomorrow Land into Star Wars land.

And for a "Chief Data Scientist", this guy's kind of a choad. It's Disney World. Who gives a fark if they track what over priced bullshiat you buy. It's also totally voluntary, you don't have to wear the thing if you don't want to. It's also been around for months, which makes TFA totally lame.


It's fairly important to note that disney tracks your purchases in the park, with or without the bands.  THEY OWN THE farkING CREDIT CARD MACHINES.

People are very dumb.
 
2014-01-20 03:28:14 PM
Same with Angry Birds (tracks location). Same with LinkedIn (can read AND WRITE my phone call data, can read my "calendar events plus confidential information", etc.). Same with the freaking Shazam app that let's me identify that song playing in the mall. Have you heard of Stylitics? You get your wardrobe mirrored back at you in a virtual closet -whatever that is - and Stylitics gets to sell your clothing data to retailers to better understand where else you shop beside their stores.

I'm sure I'm susceptible to being mined, but not in any of the ways this guy mentions.
 
2014-01-20 03:43:21 PM
Former Disney employee here on the slightly more technical side. They were already doing stuff like this they just weren't able to track it so easily. If you've been walking between rides and shows and suddenly there's a big street performance in front of you, it's because they figured out that a large number of people are waddling through this space at the same time (usually after a big show) and timed the show and a bunch of vendors to show up just then.

Now they are trying to do the same thing but without tracking everyone's movements on camera. Given that it's completely optional, it might actually be even less invasive in addition to being more relevant.
 
2014-01-20 03:54:32 PM

JerkStore: As someone who is taking his family to Disney in 4 days, I'm getting a kick...

My wife is a life-long Disney fan, as in her parents took their family every other year for 20 years. She is also an IT geek and she went nuts for these wrist bands.

I, on the other hand, hate all this tracking stuff and am a big fan of personal privacy. So while she's getting all excited about going to Disney and trying out all this new tech (we haven't told the boys we're going, we're just going to drive to the airport, get on a plane, and let them figure it out), I'm dreading being tracked, cataloged, studied, and data-plotted as I try to enjoy it with my family. I don't much care about Disney, and the last time we went three years ago (my first time ever), I was all, "THIS is what all the fuss is about?!? Meh." I'm still that way, but now that the boys are 5 and 8, maybe they'll have more fun and that's really what it's about.

But for at least one of our days, you can bet I will swap bands with my wife. Let their data tracker try to figure out why a 43-year-old man was spending so much time in the ladies' room. I don't have to like it, but I intend to be the outlier on their data set that gets discarded in analysis. It's really the only thing we can do to maintain a modicum of anonymity beyond not going at all.


To what end?  Why does it matter if they have your exact log of activity within their parks when it's collected as one of the millions of other visitor logs?  Furthermore, let us assume the absolute worst can happen here and your entire log is leaked onto the internet with your name attached, would you honestly really care after the initial shock wore off?  Seeing something like:

9:42am - Arrived at Magic Kingdom
10:12am - Purchased a coffee kiosk on Main Street with armband
10:32am - Used restroom near Cinderella's Castle
10:45am - Arrived at Fantasyland
11:10am - Rode Space Mountain
...

What could a log at Disney World possibly say about your moral character that would make you concerned about others reading it?  It's DISNEY WORLD after all...it's not like there are bars* and strip clubs for you to frequent...your log would read almost identically to millions of other visitors...

/*I realize Club 33 has a bar...but we (the collected Farkdom) will never frequent this establishment
 
2014-01-20 03:59:18 PM

FarkGrudge: JerkStore: As someone who is taking his family to Disney in 4 days, I'm getting a kick...

My wife is a life-long Disney fan, as in her parents took their family every other year for 20 years. She is also an IT geek and she went nuts for these wrist bands.

I, on the other hand, hate all this tracking stuff and am a big fan of personal privacy. So while she's getting all excited about going to Disney and trying out all this new tech (we haven't told the boys we're going, we're just going to drive to the airport, get on a plane, and let them figure it out), I'm dreading being tracked, cataloged, studied, and data-plotted as I try to enjoy it with my family. I don't much care about Disney, and the last time we went three years ago (my first time ever), I was all, "THIS is what all the fuss is about?!? Meh." I'm still that way, but now that the boys are 5 and 8, maybe they'll have more fun and that's really what it's about.

But for at least one of our days, you can bet I will swap bands with my wife. Let their data tracker try to figure out why a 43-year-old man was spending so much time in the ladies' room. I don't have to like it, but I intend to be the outlier on their data set that gets discarded in analysis. It's really the only thing we can do to maintain a modicum of anonymity beyond not going at all.

To what end?  Why does it matter if they have your exact log of activity within their parks when it's collected as one of the millions of other visitor logs?  Furthermore, let us assume the absolute worst can happen here and your entire log is leaked onto the internet with your name attached, would you honestly really care after the initial shock wore off?  Seeing something like:

9:42am - Arrived at Magic Kingdom
10:12am - Purchased a coffee kiosk on Main Street with armband
10:32am - Used restroom near Cinderella's Castle
10:45am - Arrived at Fantasyland
11:10am - Rode Space Mountain
...

What could a log at Disney World possibly say about your moral character ...


12:00-5:00 - Remained in the general vicinity of Ariel actor until confronted by security
 
2014-01-20 04:10:03 PM
6:30 - asked Princess Jasmine if she wanted to "rub your lamp"
6:40 - Escorted to park security office
7:30 - signal lost when Orlando Police escorted guest off property
 
2014-01-20 04:25:45 PM
20:22 - Fingerprint information received from Orlando Police station and entered into database of known character abusers.

/Lets be honest, logs use 24 hour notation.
 
2014-01-20 04:33:48 PM

lohphat: The problem with Mickey saying your Hhe is that there are several Mickeys out around the park at the same time. Try to explain to your kid why they can't remember the conversation you had two hours ago elsewhere on property.


Do kids do the Santa thing with Mickey Mouse?  I don't remember ever thinking the people in costumes were ever the actual characters because they weren't cartoons.
 
2014-01-20 04:34:49 PM
Jesus.  Fark can't go even three weeks without a repeat?  Sounds like the author of the TFA reads TIME as well:

http://www.fark.com/comments/8084213/Welcome-to-Disneyland-we-know-e xa ctly-where-you-are-at-all-times-Have-fun
 
2014-01-20 04:50:32 PM

trappedspirit: lohphat: The problem with Mickey saying your Hhe is that there are several Mickeys out around the park at the same time. Try to explain to your kid why they can't remember the conversation you had two hours ago elsewhere on property.

Do kids do the Santa thing with Mickey Mouse?  I don't remember ever thinking the people in costumes were ever the actual characters because they weren't cartoons.


The problem is that kids get autographs and show off things and tell them about it's their birthday etc. The new Mickey head they have is animatronic and talks canned phrases. It's creepy. (Remote operator)

It's easier for the "face characters" e.g. Belle, Snow White, etc since they can talk and interact. But there too it can get wierd as they have Belle at the character breakfast events at the hotel then Belle is played by anger woman inside the park later in the day.

/DL cast member 85-94
 
2014-01-20 04:51:11 PM
*another woman

Damned autocorrect. Shoulda previewed.
 
2014-01-20 04:57:40 PM

soopey: /Lets be honest, logs use 24 hour notation.


Local DST-adjusted time?  Or UTC?
 
2014-01-20 05:00:27 PM
no itchy and scratchy land picture references?

fark i am disappoint.
 
2014-01-20 05:02:23 PM
I'm looking at a WDW vacation in May, and I'm actually kind of looking forward to using these. There's the ease of not having to carry around a wallet and room keycard, and if my companion and I get separated without our phones, we can easily find each other. We just need to be sure to opt out of promo emails and information-sharing with any third parties. As others have said, if the information is collected on property, and is used solely to improve the experience for all concerned, I really don't have a problem with it.

I was actually a bit more leery of the biometrics, but I ran across a passage about that on the Disney site. According to them, your fingerprint image is converted to alphanumerics and immediately deleted. The code itself vanishes after your last day there is done.

Overall, I think the Magic Band would come most in handy when travelling with children. A lot of people have no idea how vast WDW really is; if a kid gets lost, then decides to hop a monorail or ferryboat, they could wind up a few miles away. Having the ability to use the long-range RF readers to pinpoint a kid's location seems like it would make it worth its weight in gold to a family.
 
2014-01-20 05:16:09 PM
buckler: ...if a kid gets lost, then decides to hop a monorail or ferryboat, they could wind up a few miles away. Having the ability to use the long-range RF readers to pinpoint a kid's location seems like it would make it worth its weight in gold to a family.

Assuming you want the kid back.
 
2014-01-20 05:28:58 PM
I managed to dodge the bullet with my kids and the Disney "experience." However, I do remember going there with my wife on a trip to visit my grandfather in Sarasota when we were first married. I find it unnerving to have background music wherever you go--maybe they've dialed it back a little since then--and when we went to visit Epcot Center, which had just barely opened, the Muzak change from "It's a Small World After All" to "2001 a Space Odyssey." What was creepiest of all is that to get to the open-for-business parts of Epcot Center you had to walk across an empty field and the music was still there. A little examination revealed that some of the "stones" and a lot of the "vegetation" were actually camouflaged speakers. I'm sure that with recent advances in technology the plants now uproot themselves and follow you around urging you to spend money.
 
2014-01-20 05:52:56 PM

lohphat: It's easier for the "face characters" e.g. Belle, Snow White, etc since they can talk and interact. But there too it can get wierd as they have Belle at the character breakfast events at the hotel then Belle is played by anger woman inside the park later in the day.


Oooh, I love her and would die for an autograph!
 
2014-01-20 06:00:35 PM

trappedspirit: lohphat: The problem with Mickey saying your Hhe is that there are several Mickeys out around the park at the same time. Try to explain to your kid why they can't remember the conversation you had two hours ago elsewhere on property.

Do kids do the Santa thing with Mickey Mouse?  I don't remember ever thinking the people in costumes were ever the actual characters because they weren't cartoons.


yes.  Mickey, Donald, and Goofy, at least, all play Santa in the parks.
 
2014-01-20 06:10:47 PM

bhcompy: trappedspirit: lohphat: The problem with Mickey saying your Hhe is that there are several Mickeys out around the park at the same time. Try to explain to your kid why they can't remember the conversation you had two hours ago elsewhere on property.

Do kids do the Santa thing with Mickey Mouse?  I don't remember ever thinking the people in costumes were ever the actual characters because they weren't cartoons.

yes.  Mickey, Donald, and Goofy, at least, all play Santa in the parks.


I meant kids doing that Santa thing as in some of them think they are sitting on the real Santa's lap at the dept store.  You would have some difficulty explaining why Santa at Macy's didn't remember them from the meeting at Dillards.   But do kids think that the guy in the Mickey costume is THE Mickey Mouse and the cartoon version is just a drawing or what?
 
2014-01-20 06:52:18 PM
Purchase wrist band for child and ear plugs for adult.
Go through It's a Small world after all sox times.
Seventh ride, drop wrist band in bloody zip lock bag Half way through in water.
Report child missing.
Exit park.
 
2014-01-20 08:29:49 PM

vudukungfu: Purchase wrist band for child and ear plugs for adult.
Go through It's a Small world after all sox times.
Seventh ride, drop wrist band in bloody zip lock bag Half way through in water.
Report child missing.
Exit park.


Who`s blood?

I vote goat blood mixed with cockerel blood.
 
2014-01-20 08:51:58 PM

trappedspirit: bhcompy: trappedspirit: lohphat: The problem with Mickey saying your Hhe is that there are several Mickeys out around the park at the same time. Try to explain to your kid why they can't remember the conversation you had two hours ago elsewhere on property.

Do kids do the Santa thing with Mickey Mouse?  I don't remember ever thinking the people in costumes were ever the actual characters because they weren't cartoons.

yes.  Mickey, Donald, and Goofy, at least, all play Santa in the parks.

I meant kids doing that Santa thing as in some of them think they are sitting on the real Santa's lap at the dept store.  You would have some difficulty explaining why Santa at Macy's didn't remember them from the meeting at Dillards.   But do kids think that the guy in the Mickey costume is THE Mickey Mouse and the cartoon version is just a drawing or what?


People in costumes pretending to be cartoon characters creeped me right the fark out as a little kid. It was blatantly obvious that it was some teenage douche in a suit and it scared me a little that some of the other kids weren't hip to the disguise.

I remember going to a Toys-R-Us once and the entire list of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe characters was there in costume. I wouldn't go near them while some of the other kids my age (I was maybe 5) were going apeshiat.
 
2014-01-20 09:06:28 PM
Settle down, Beavis. The long-range "track wherever you go" business is opt-in only.
 
2014-01-20 09:17:59 PM
Whatever you say will come true.
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-20 09:21:07 PM
FTA: What menu items served at breakfast at the resort hotel restaurants will result in the longest stay at the park?

I would imagine the breakfast burritos will keep you in the park all afternoon, even if all you see is the inside of the restroom.
 
2014-01-20 09:26:32 PM

Nabb1: Louisiana_Sitar_Club: Meh.
A) You don't have to go.
B) If you go, you don't have to get the wrist band if you don't want it.

It sounds like it comes with a lot of advantages for the person at the park and I really don't care if they know what I had for lunch, for crying out loud.

You'll have to have one if you want to use a fast pass. They are switching over to Fast Pass Plus completely and you have to be staying on the property to use it. That doesn't bother us, because we are DVC members, but some people will be pissed.


So you pay for this? The pricing and what you get for said pricing is a bit vague.

http://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/about/cost/
 
2014-01-20 10:01:52 PM

NASAM: The one thing I didn't like was having to scan my finger upon entry.  That kinda pissed me off a little.


That's probably the least invasive info that Disney collects.  They're assigning a bone structure to your pass.  In the past, large groups would enter two or three at a time, one person would leave with multiple passes and bring in more people.  Now if the pass re-enters the gate they know it's the same person.

I always stay with a friend when I visit the Orlando area (1-2 times annually) but because I use my credit card on their property, their system assumes from my out of state address that I must be staying at an off-site hotel.  As a result, I get Disney resort offers on a regular basis.  I have no problem with targeted advertising; I just wished that it worked better.
 
2014-01-20 10:18:49 PM

JerkStore: As someone who is taking his family to Disney in 4 days, I'm getting a kick...

My wife is a life-long Disney fan, as in her parents took their family every other year for 20 years. She is also an IT geek and she went nuts for these wrist bands.

I, on the other hand, hate all this tracking stuff and am a big fan of personal privacy. So while she's getting all excited about going to Disney and trying out all this new tech (we haven't told the boys we're going, we're just going to drive to the airport, get on a plane, and let them figure it out), I'm dreading being tracked, cataloged, studied, and data-plotted as I try to enjoy it with my family. I don't much care about Disney, and the last time we went three years ago (my first time ever), I was all, "THIS is what all the fuss is about?!? Meh." I'm still that way, but now that the boys are 5 and 8, maybe they'll have more fun and that's really what it's about.

But for at least one of our days, you can bet I will swap bands with my wife. Let their data tracker try to figure out why a 43-year-old man was spending so much time in the ladies' room. I don't have to like it, but I intend to be the outlier on their data set that gets discarded in analysis. It's really the only thing we can do to maintain a modicum of anonymity beyond not going at all.


Disney really doesn't care about JerkStore's behavior.  They care about the general behavior of the 10+million unique visitors and how to minimize concerns in an effort to maximize experience to end goal of maximizing profits (a happy guest is a returning guest).  But if you want to think that a single human being has ever even looked at the profile of visitor #2009-4560412, then no one here is going to shatter your allusions ,

FarkGrudge:/*I realize Club 33 has a bar...but we (the collected Farkdom) will never frequent this establishment

It also helps that Club 33 is exclusive to a park 2,500 miles away.
 
2014-01-20 11:12:46 PM
I think we're really creating a false dichotomy between privacy and personalization. It's perfectly possible to have an enormous amount of personalized data tracking going on and still maintain privacy. All you need to do is keep all the data anonymized so all Disney knows is you're Band #382158142.
 
2014-01-21 12:14:40 AM

Prof. Ann Marion: Jesus.  Fark can't go even three weeks without a repeat?  Sounds like the author of the TFA reads TIME as well:

http://www.fark.com/comments/8084213/Welcome-to-Disneyland-we-know-e xa ctly-where-you-are-at-all-times-Have-fun


Fark can't go 30 minutes without a repeat.
 
2014-01-21 08:52:57 AM
why would you want to travel to a place where all they do is rip off tourists?

i mean, greece is full of ruins for a reason.
 
2014-01-21 09:00:23 AM

slayer199: The article brings up a valid parallel between the NSA and private enterprises seeking big data...but fails to see the larger point.  There's a huge difference between the NSA and private enterprises using you for big data.

Consent.

For example, if I use Facebook, LinkedIn or google (free services) as part of their TOS I understand they will use the data for marketing purposes in exchange for using their services free of charge.  I understand that the companies need to make money by selling advertising.  Of course, there has to be some trust that private enterprises don't expose that data to a nefarious 3rd party...like hackers or a government.  Additionally, there's pressure on companies NOT to abuse that trust or fear losing customers (look how pissed off people get when fb makes a change to the TOS).

In regards to Disney, the assumption with Disney is that they'll use the data to improve my Disney experience.  If you're a fan of Disney, this seems like a small price to pay (considering going to Disney is already expensive).

Conversely, I do NOT consent to the government searching my data without cause or warrant.  Something about Constitutional protections.  I can consent to a search and if I refuse, the government needs to obtain a probable cause warrant.  Of course the NSA can claim that FISA is the checkpoint for warrants...but they're little more than a rubber stamp.  And since they're secret, there's no way the public can validate those claims.  That is why people are pissed off about the NSA.


you must have voted palin/old guy.
 
2014-01-21 09:27:11 AM

crab66: Anyone who uses the term "meat space" needs to be cleansed from the gene pool.


Anyone who says those who use the term "meat space" need to be cleansed from the gene pool needs to be cleansed from the gene pool.
 
2014-01-21 09:52:43 AM

legion_of_doo: you must have voted palin/old guy.


Whatever brought you to that conclusion?
 
2014-01-21 10:19:25 AM

nymersic: crab66: Anyone who uses the term "meat space" needs to be cleansed from the gene pool.

Anyone who says those who use the term "meat space" need to be cleansed from the gene pool needs to be cleansed from the gene pool.


Anyone who says those who use the term "meat space" need to be cleansed from the gene pool needs to be cleansed from the gene pool needs to be cleansed from the gene pool.
 
2014-01-21 11:50:20 AM

slayer199: legion_of_doo: you must have voted palin/old guy.

Whatever brought you to that conclusion?


you can put words together, and have some thought about privacy & government, and yet here we are. you seem almost offended by what the annointed one has done.

perhaps you voted third party.

/yes yes, politics tab is that way
 
2014-01-21 11:55:18 AM

legion_of_doo: slayer199: legion_of_doo: you must have voted palin/old guy.

Whatever brought you to that conclusion?

you can put words together, and have some thought about privacy & government, and yet here we are. you seem almost offended by what the annointed one has done.

perhaps you voted third party.

/yes yes, politics tab is that way


I haven't voted for either party in 25 years...so yes, I vote 3rd party
 
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