Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Slate)   The first step to admitting you have a problem, Alcoholics Anonymous, is realizing you're clinging to an outdated and scientifically unsound philosophy   (slate.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Alcoholics Anonymous, support groups, addiction medicine, philosophy  
•       •       •

15633 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jan 2014 at 4:12 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



347 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-01-19 09:09:44 PM  
I'm sure it still works for some people. When I was a teenager I was required to attend three meetings per week. I usually went to seven. It became my daily social hour.
 
2014-01-19 09:11:33 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: I'm sure it still works for some people. When I was a teenager I was required to attend three meetings per week. I usually went to seven. It became my daily social hour.


I find it hard to believe a teenager can be a serious alcoholic unless they've been drinking nonstop since 7.
 
2014-01-19 09:17:47 PM  

Confabulat: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'm sure it still works for some people. When I was a teenager I was required to attend three meetings per week. I usually went to seven. It became my daily social hour.

I find it hard to believe a teenager can be a serious alcoholic unless they've been drinking nonstop since 7.


I wasn't a serious alcoholic at all. I did drink and do stupid crap and was sent to a group home specializing in teen drunks. The main requirement to stay there (and avoid juvie prison) was to admit out powerlessness over alcohol and embrace the AA philosophy. I must say, that was a failure.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-01-19 09:20:06 PM  
It still works for a lot of people, day in, and day out.  It does a lot of people a lot of good, and it is the only system of its kind that has the history of success that it has.  There are other groups similar to the 12-step model, and if an Anonymous doesn't work for you, try one of them.

Some people have a great deal of hate for AA.  I found that it was not for me, but I'm not pissed off at it.

Unless you have a viable substitute for it, the criticism falls away from my ears.  AA could stand a little bit of change, but perhaps not on a national level.  What I used to call my home group practiced a modified AA.
 
2014-01-19 09:20:37 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: Confabulat: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'm sure it still works for some people. When I was a teenager I was required to attend three meetings per week. I usually went to seven. It became my daily social hour.

I find it hard to believe a teenager can be a serious alcoholic unless they've been drinking nonstop since 7.

I wasn't a serious alcoholic at all. I did drink and do stupid crap and was sent to a group home specializing in teen drunks. The main requirement to stay there (and avoid juvie prison) was to admit out powerlessness over alcohol and embrace the AA philosophy. I must say, that was a failure.


Yeah, that sounds more like dumbass Nancy Reagan bullshiat.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-01-19 09:20:44 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: I must say, that was a failure.


Yeah, it can't be forced on a person.  It's something a person has to want.
 
2014-01-19 09:22:36 PM  

Confabulat: Nina Haagen Dazs: Confabulat: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'm sure it still works for some people. When I was a teenager I was required to attend three meetings per week. I usually went to seven. It became my daily social hour.

I find it hard to believe a teenager can be a serious alcoholic unless they've been drinking nonstop since 7.

I wasn't a serious alcoholic at all. I did drink and do stupid crap and was sent to a group home specializing in teen drunks. The main requirement to stay there (and avoid juvie prison) was to admit out powerlessness over alcohol and embrace the AA philosophy. I must say, that was a failure.

Yeah, that sounds more like dumbass Nancy Reagan bullshiat.


This was a few years before her time, but yea. It was dumbass.
 
2014-01-19 09:23:47 PM  

433: It still works for a lot of people, day in, and day out.  It does a lot of people a lot of good, and it is the only system of its kind that has the history of success that it has.  There are other groups similar to the 12-step model, and if an Anonymous doesn't work for you, try one of them.

Some people have a great deal of hate for AA.  I found that it was not for me, but I'm not pissed off at it.

Unless you have a viable substitute for it, the criticism falls away from my ears.  AA could stand a little bit of change, but perhaps not on a national level.  What I used to call my home group practiced a modified AA.


I agree AA works for a lot of people, but our judicial system is completely caught up in it, and it's a disgrace that you can be sentenced to a religion-based program in this day and age.

I'm an alcoholic, and I will get in a serious fight if I ever go to an AA meeting. Don't you ever tell me what I'm in control of, assholes.
 
2014-01-19 09:25:07 PM  

433: Nina Haagen Dazs: I must say, that was a failure.

Yeah, it can't be forced on a person.  It's something a person has to want.


Well, at 15 I just wanted to get together with my friends and drink more beer and smoke some doobs. I won't knock AA though, I shouldn't have been there. I saw a lot of people over a six month period that it did help. Because they wanted/needed that help.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-01-19 09:32:51 PM  

Confabulat: it's a disgrace that you can be sentenced to a religion-based program in this day and age.


I don't care for that, either.  The notion of a higher power is clearly religious, but one of the adaptations made in many anonymous groups is that a higher power may be anything that can keep a person adherent, be it the court system, children, etc.  I think it's a compromise, and I wish something could be worked out with it.

It's not generally approved for an individual to be his or her own higher power, and that I do not like at all.  It was by own will I stopped using - we'll see how well that bears out over the years.   I don't like falsely admitting that I am not the boss of me.  Fark that!

I think I have a love/hate thing going with 12 steps.
 
2014-01-19 09:37:31 PM  

Confabulat: 433: It still works for a lot of people, day in, and day out.  It does a lot of people a lot of good, and it is the only system of its kind that has the history of success that it has.  There are other groups similar to the 12-step model, and if an Anonymous doesn't work for you, try one of them.

Some people have a great deal of hate for AA.  I found that it was not for me, but I'm not pissed off at it.

Unless you have a viable substitute for it, the criticism falls away from my ears.  AA could stand a little bit of change, but perhaps not on a national level.  What I used to call my home group practiced a modified AA.

I agree AA works for a lot of people, but our judicial system is completely caught up in it, and it's a disgrace that you can be sentenced to a religion-based program in this day and age.

I'm an alcoholic, and I will get in a serious fight if I ever go to an AA meeting. Don't you ever tell me what I'm in control of, assholes.


That's my major problem with AA.  The religion and making oneself powerless (a major component in religion).  If meetings are anything like what I've seen in fictional accounts, there's also alot of people sitting around telling their sob stories. ("I know I said I wouldn't drink when I talked about falling off the wagon last week, but I'm hungover today..."  "Keep coming back.  It works if you work it.")  I don;t think I'd have the patience.

The episode of Dexter where he went to his first NA meting was kind of how I imagine I would react to something like that.
 
2014-01-19 09:44:10 PM  
Shame is a big part of the AA system and I dont agree with that model.
It is also expected that anyone within AA will use religion, which is presumptuous.
 
2014-01-19 09:44:42 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: Confabulat: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'm sure it still works for some people. When I was a teenager I was required to attend three meetings per week. I usually went to seven. It became my daily social hour.

I find it hard to believe a teenager can be a serious alcoholic unless they've been drinking nonstop since 7.

I wasn't a serious alcoholic at all. I did drink and do stupid crap and was sent to a group home specializing in teen drunks. The main requirement to stay there (and avoid juvie prison) was to admit out powerlessness over alcohol and embrace the AA philosophy. I must say, that was a failure.



I've always heard that rehab doesn't work unless the addict wants it to work.
 
2014-01-19 09:47:16 PM  

what_now: Nina Haagen Dazs: Confabulat: Nina Haagen Dazs: I'm sure it still works for some people. When I was a teenager I was required to attend three meetings per week. I usually went to seven. It became my daily social hour.

I find it hard to believe a teenager can be a serious alcoholic unless they've been drinking nonstop since 7.

I wasn't a serious alcoholic at all. I did drink and do stupid crap and was sent to a group home specializing in teen drunks. The main requirement to stay there (and avoid juvie prison) was to admit out powerlessness over alcohol and embrace the AA philosophy. I must say, that was a failure.


I've always heard that rehab doesn't work unless the addict wants it to work.


I was 15. Beyond a beer, what did I know about what I wanted? You just can't force that on people.
 
2014-01-19 09:55:51 PM  

what_now: I've always heard that rehab doesn't work unless the addict wants it to work.


I've always found that to be an odd statement. If they really wanted the rehab to work, wouldn't damn near any kind of reputable rehab program get the job done? And if said addict really wants to change, why do they need to rehab program? Is it even necessary? And why haven't we devised a rehab program that works, regardless of whether the addict wants it to work or not?

Also, why didn't we name jet skis "boatercycles?" And what would have happened if we named carrots "oranges?" What, then, would we call oranges? And whose bright idea was it to make a cough medicine that is both a suppressant AND an expectorate?
 
2014-01-19 10:34:02 PM  

HawgWild: what_now: I've always heard that rehab doesn't work unless the addict wants it to work.

I've always found that to be an odd statement. If they really wanted the rehab to work, wouldn't damn near any kind of reputable rehab program get the job done? And if said addict really wants to change, why do they need to rehab program? Is it even necessary? And why haven't we devised a rehab program that works, regardless of whether the addict wants it to work or not?

Also, why didn't we name jet skis "boatercycles?" And what would have happened if we named carrots "oranges?" What, then, would we call oranges? And whose bright idea was it to make a cough medicine that is both a suppressant AND an expectorate?


Probably. That also explains why AA doesn't do a very good job and has a very high relapse rate.
 
2014-01-19 10:40:56 PM  

Frederick: Shame is a big part of the AA system and I dont agree with that model.
It is also expected that anyone within AA will use religion, which is presumptuous.


Yeah, it's very much a model where you confess that you're a worthless sinner incapable of overcoming the addiction, and only the higher power of God can set you free.
 
2014-01-19 10:45:58 PM  
Hey, more booze for me. Suck it, quitters.
 
2014-01-19 10:47:06 PM  

433: Confabulat: it's a disgrace that you can be sentenced to a religion-based program in this day and age.

I don't care for that, either.  The notion of a higher power is clearly religious, but one of the adaptations made in many anonymous groups is that a higher power may be anything that can keep a person adherent, be it the court system, children, etc.  I think it's a compromise, and I wish something could be worked out with it.

It's not generally approved for an individual to be his or her own higher power, and that I do not like at all.  It was by own will I stopped using - we'll see how well that bears out over the years.   I don't like falsely admitting that I am not the boss of me.  Fark that!

I think I have a love/hate thing going with 12 steps.


Actually, that's the 13th step.
 
2014-01-19 10:48:42 PM  
Though, it did work for my dad for a bit then he went out on his own. So, kudos to them for that.
 
2014-01-19 11:10:54 PM  

pueblonative: Actually, that's the 13th step.


Love that album.
 
2014-01-20 12:00:21 AM  

433: Confabulat: it's a disgrace that you can be sentenced to a religion-based program in this day and age.

I don't care for that, either.  The notion of a higher power is clearly religious, but one of the adaptations made in many anonymous groups is that a higher power may be anything that can keep a person adherent, be it the court system, children, etc.  I think it's a compromise, and I wish something could be worked out with it.

It's not generally approved for an individual to be his or her own higher power, and that I do not like at all.  It was by own will I stopped using - we'll see how well that bears out over the years.   I don't like falsely admitting that I am not the boss of me.  Fark that!

I think I have a love/hate thing going with 12 steps.


And with that, you have won my everlasting respect, Sir

/we choose
//the higher power must be the better you
///YMMV

Stay strong, my friend
 
2014-01-20 12:04:00 AM  

Confabulat: I agree AA works for a lot of people, but our judicial system is completely caught up in it, and it's a disgrace that you can be sentenced to a religion-based program in this day and age.


I really dislike that the judicial system considers AA an adjunct. Exactly how anonymous are you when I have to sign your damn sheet with your name on it at the end of the meeting? And how many people really want to be there and intend to change? It's pointless for these people to be there.
 
2014-01-20 12:12:00 AM  
Oh, this thread will be fun. It's always interesting to see the acolytes of AA blame everyone else and make some pretty vicious personal attacks against people who criticize their program's methods and philosophies.

Oh, I'm sorry. "Enable drunks".

Popcorn, anyone?

nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-20 12:13:50 AM  

simplicimus: I really dislike that the judicial system considers AA an adjunct. Exactly how anonymous are you when I have to sign your damn sheet with your name on it at the end of the meeting? And how many people really want to be there and intend to change? It's pointless for these people to be there.


TECHNICALLY, a court cannot sentence a person to AA - they have to sentence that person to a rehabilitation group, as actually sentencing someone to AA violates their religious freedom under the first amendment - as it is typically seen as an endorsement of the typically Christian denomination which sponsors that group.
 
2014-01-20 12:16:10 AM  
My best friend is an alcoholic.  He's been sober now for 6 years...in part because of AA.  I think the real thing that has worked for him is to have friends that are committed to being sober as much as the plan (as well as someone to lean on when he needs to).  Personally, I don't care what works for him so long as he doesn't drink.

That being said, I think we'll be seeing addiction vaccines in the next 5 years as a lot of progress has been made the last couple years.
 
2014-01-20 12:16:59 AM  

hardinparamedic: Oh, this thread will be fun. It's always interesting to see the acolytes of AA blame everyone else and make some pretty vicious personal attacks against people who criticize their program's methods and philosophies.

Oh, I'm sorry. "Enable drunks".

Popcorn, anyone?

[nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com image 500x212]


Eh, it works for some people, so for them it's better than nothing. It's not for everyone. The 12 steps can produce some interesting experiences.
 
2014-01-20 12:19:55 AM  

hardinparamedic: simplicimus: I really dislike that the judicial system considers AA an adjunct. Exactly how anonymous are you when I have to sign your damn sheet with your name on it at the end of the meeting? And how many people really want to be there and intend to change? It's pointless for these people to be there.

TECHNICALLY, a court cannot sentence a person to AA - they have to sentence that person to a rehabilitation group, as actually sentencing someone to AA violates their religious freedom under the first amendment - as it is typically seen as an endorsement of the typically Christian denomination which sponsors that group.


Well, technically. But AA/NA etc. are free, so there's that. And there are atheist AA groups.
 
2014-01-20 12:24:54 AM  

simplicimus: Eh, it works for some people, so for them it's better than nothing.


No one's discounting that. But the issue is that it's  better than nothing, not that it's superior to any other approach

The problem with AA is that it sets up the blame for failure strictly upon that individual, and that it depends on seeking out religious faith as a solution to one's problems with alcohol or drug addiction - ignoring the fact that self-control and peer support is only one facet of drug and alcohol treatment. The program doesn't fail people, people fail the program. In that way, they can continue claiming 90-100% success rates when the reality is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-40% depending on studies.

The other problem is that AA touts itsself as a superior solution with a major rate of positive outcomes when in reality it's success is no greater than that of other group therapy programs, and may even be dramatically less. AA's decentralized and relatively anonymous nature tend to make it hard to examine it's claims, and in some cases it openly and knowingly lies about it's success rates to prospective members.
 
2014-01-20 12:25:44 AM  

hardinparamedic: Oh, this thread will be fun. It's always interesting to see the acolytes of AA blame everyone else and make some pretty vicious personal attacks against people who criticize their program's methods and philosophies.

Oh, I'm sorry. "Enable drunks".

Popcorn, anyone?

[nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com image 500x212]


i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-20 12:26:04 AM  
Exchanging one addiction for another.
 
2014-01-20 12:28:13 AM  
The existing model of addiction fails to understand the differences between someone who gets physically addicted to opiates because of pain, someone who can't be sober anytime, and someone who binge drinks on occasion.  So long as those are all "the same" the the treatment will be caveman levels of sophisticastion (and no more effective mathwise than willpower).
 
2014-01-20 12:29:15 AM  
Well, I got this far in TFA: " First, they claim that AA has obstructed the spread of medications to treat alcoholism. Second, they claim that the group stubbornly resists evidence that some alcoholics are better suited to a life of moderate drinking than to complete abstinence "
One first point, depends on the group. Some groups are anti-medications, other groups are whatever works.
Second point is just silly. If you are an alcoholic by the AA definition, there is no such thing as moderate drinking for you. If you can drink in moderation, that's cool. If you were out of control for a while and then could start drinking moderately, that's cool.
/all of this depends on the particular group.
 
2014-01-20 12:29:50 AM  
AA works for a lot of people

If you repeat a lie long enough and loud enough it must be true.

AA does not work.
SCIENCE has proven that AA is exactly as effective as quitting cold turkey on your own.
SCIENCE has proven that the sinclair method works and is more effective at treating relapses.


WHAT people get confused about is Coincidental Correlation.

You need more proof of how GREAT AA isnt?
IF AA was so amazing, why doesnt AA have tons of studies and stats to back up their wonderful program?


That you personally finally stopped drinking when you went to AA only proves that you stopped drinking.
Strange that you ignore the millions of people who went to AA and didnt stop drinking.

You have to count both groups of people if you want to talk about how useful something is.

/farking Coincidental Correlation  and placebo and last place you looked
 
2014-01-20 12:31:15 AM  

simplicimus: hardinparamedic: Oh, this thread will be fun. It's always interesting to see the acolytes of AA blame everyone else and make some pretty vicious personal attacks against people who criticize their program's methods and philosophies.

Oh, I'm sorry. "Enable drunks".

Popcorn, anyone?

[nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com image 500x212]

Eh, it works for some people, so for them it's better than nothing. It's not for everyone. The 12 steps can produce some interesting experiences.


Literally everything short of Pimpin' Dave's drugs, hooch and poon emporium is better than nothing.
 
2014-01-20 12:32:37 AM  

hardinparamedic: simplicimus: Eh, it works for some people, so for them it's better than nothing.

No one's discounting that. But the issue is that it's  better than nothing, not that it's superior to any other approach


I'll be the first to admit that there are other ways that work. And that metrics are impossible to gather from an anonymous, decentralized organization.
 
2014-01-20 12:32:41 AM  
Percentage of people helped by AA is 5%.
Percentage of people who can quit on their own is 5%.
 
2014-01-20 12:35:02 AM  

simplicimus: Well, I got this far in TFA: " First, they claim that AA has obstructed the spread of medications to treat alcoholism. Second, they claim that the group stubbornly resists evidence that some alcoholics are better suited to a life of moderate drinking than to complete abstinence "
One first point, depends on the group. Some groups are anti-medications, other groups are whatever works.
Second point is just silly. If you are an alcoholic by the AA definition, there is no such thing as moderate drinking for you. If you can drink in moderation, that's cool. If you were out of control for a while and then could start drinking moderately, that's cool.
/all of this depends on the particular group.


so really dont know anything about AA, sinclair method and recent research on treatment

/sounds like  fark
 
2014-01-20 12:36:19 AM  

2wolves: Percentage of people helped by AA is 5%.
Percentage of people who can quit on their own is 5%.


this
 
2014-01-20 12:42:13 AM  
"once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic."

I wonder what percentage of alcoholics would be able to moderately drink if they really wanted.
But they have been told that there is nothing in the middle.


I know tons of people who thought they were alcoholics because they were drinking slobs back in college.
Quit for a long time.
And now drink like adults.

I guess the counter argument for these people is that they must not have been an alcoholic, because alcoholism is forever!!!
lol
 
2014-01-20 12:45:57 AM  
www.slate.com

"Hi, my name's Joe, and I can't stop wearing grey."

"HI JOE."
 
2014-01-20 12:48:39 AM  

BSABSVR: The existing model of addiction fails to understand the differences between someone who gets physically addicted to opiates because of pain, someone who can't be sober anytime, and someone who binge drinks on occasion.  So long as those are all "the same" the the treatment will be caveman levels of sophisticastion (and no more effective mathwise than willpower).


It also ignores the fact that a number of people who are addicted to opiates, drugs of abuse, and alcohol have an underlying undiagnosed mental health problem that they are self-medicating for as well.
 
2014-01-20 12:52:42 AM  

namatad: so really dont know anything about AA, sinclair method and recent research on treatment


I know about AA. And the following from the Sinclair report doesn't make it seem all that special:
"Although all found benefits from naltrexone with the coping therapy, none of them found any significant benefit of naltrexone over placebo when combined with support for abstinence."
 
2014-01-20 01:00:16 AM  

simplicimus: namatad: so really dont know anything about AA, sinclair method and recent research on treatment

I know about AA. And the following from the Sinclair report doesn't make it seem all that special:
"Although all found benefits from naltrexone with the coping therapy, none of them found any significant benefit of naltrexone over placebo when combined with support for abstinence."


you left out the part where coping therapy worked head and shoulders better than support for abstinence.
 
2014-01-20 01:04:59 AM  

namatad: simplicimus: namatad: so really dont know anything about AA, sinclair method and recent research on treatment

I know about AA. And the following from the Sinclair report doesn't make it seem all that special:
"Although all found benefits from naltrexone with the coping therapy, none of them found any significant benefit of naltrexone over placebo when combined with support for abstinence."

you left out the part where coping therapy worked head and shoulders better than support for abstinence.


This part?
Three of the trials tested naltrexone in two ways: (1) with supportive therapy, i.e. support of complete abstinence; (2) with therapy tacitly accepting that relapses may occur and teaching how to cope with them. Although all found benefits from naltrexone with the coping therapy, none of them found any significant benefit of naltrexone over placebo when combined with support for abstinence.
 
2014-01-20 01:06:32 AM  
I just remembered I was sentenced to counseling after a DUI back in like 2001 or whatever; the charges were thrown out of court but you don't get to escape the DMV rules upon arrest if you want to keep a driver's licence, ha.

It went exactly like this:

I would arrive at my court-approved psychologist's office at 5 PM once a month for six months. I would walk in, sit down. He's say, hey how are you doing? I'd say oh fine, the usual. He's read off about ten questions to which I'd cheerfully respond. I'd give him my check for $70 and leave at 5:10 PM.
 
2014-01-20 01:12:26 AM  

namatad: That you personally finally stopped drinking when you went to AA only proves that you stopped drinking.
Strange that you ignore the millions of people who went to AA and didnt stop drinking.


Good point.  Some of those millions are repeat failures as well.
 
2014-01-20 01:15:58 AM  

Frederick: namatad: That you personally finally stopped drinking when you went to AA only proves that you stopped drinking.
Strange that you ignore the millions of people who went to AA and didnt stop drinking.

Good point.  Some of those millions are repeat failures as well.


Metrics?
 
2014-01-20 01:17:31 AM  
For some alcohol does win.  It kicks their ass hardcore. Some lose everything.
When someone is at the point where they are truly beaten by alcohol and surrender to the fact that if they keep drinking they will die, then there is a place for them in AA.

AA gives those people a place where they can be with other like minded folks who have the exact same story, and if they really want to, they don't ever have to drink again.
 
2014-01-20 02:07:12 AM  

simplicimus: Frederick: namatad: That you personally finally stopped drinking when you went to AA only proves that you stopped drinking.
Strange that you ignore the millions of people who went to AA and didnt stop drinking.

Good point.  Some of those millions are repeat failures as well.

Metrics?


there are few metrics
AA hides behind anonymity, which I agree with. Addicts are  persecuted in this society and deserve protection.
But studies have been done.
AA is exactly as effective as quitting on your own.
The same success rates. The same recidivism rates.

WORSE, AA produces some insanely worthless numbers and claims that they are facts.
LOL

The number of people who are how many months in is worthless without control groups, without counting all the people who show up for one meeting and never come back. Whether they quit forever the next day or drink until they die.

IF AA really cared, they would WANT to be active and support research showing how awesome their plan is.
IMAGINE having THAT data for advertise your plan?

"AA is 35% effective and 89% better than all other plans!"
That would be the greatest news for addicts everywhere.
True hope.

Instead we get "I dont care about facts, it worked for me!"
Sorry, but anecdotes are the opposite of evidence.

/HEY, dont get me wrong. I dont care HOW you quit. I am glad that you were able to save your life or whatever. But that doesn't prove that X works. It just proves that you quit. (I am using YOU in the generic sense for all the people who claim something works.)
/This is just the same as the people who claim the power of prayer saved them. sigh
 
Displayed 50 of 347 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report