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(SeattlePI)   A North Texas man who paid $350,000 for the right to hunt an endangered African black rhino said he's had to hire full-time security due to death threats after his name was leaked onto the Internet   (seattlepi.com) divider line 393
    More: Followup, North Texas, African, death threats, internet, black person  
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6576 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2014 at 9:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-19 09:17:32 PM  

Hoban Washburne: doglover: So, they do indeed have a valid perspective of what hunting is like from their end. The only hunters I respect in the day of industrial slaughter houses and high powered rifles are sniper scouts, or "hunters of gunmen" as they dub themselves.

As someone who eats meat, I'm perfectly fine with "ethical hunting."  That is, hunting overpopulated (or at least not underpopulated) animals that would otherwise starve and eating and/or donating the meat.  A deer that gets killed in the wild has a much better life than a cow in a factory farm.  There is not really a "good death" in nature.  Animals usually die of starvation or getting eaten by other animals.  Being put down by a skilled hunter is probably one of the cleaner deaths possible for wild animals.  True fair chase deer stalking is actually very difficult and physically taxing.

The rhino is endangered and I seriously doubt this guy is planning to eat it, or that it will be a fair chase scenario.  I imagine he'll be driven by a guide in one of those safari jeeps, get relatively close, the rhino will be like "Ehh, whatever" because he's used to people in jeeps, and the guy will just shoot him.  That's a farking shiatty, cowardly thing to do.

You may personally be opposed to all types of hunting, but let's at least separate the reasonable from the ridiculous.


And as bojon pointed out this is a very specific hunt of a small number of post procreating animals with the proceeds of the lottery going to preservation efforts of the herd. I'm putting this on the reasonable side of that equation.
 
2014-01-19 09:27:06 PM  
I'd have less of a problem if this wasn't obviously a trophy license.  The rhino is on a preserve, they know exactly where he's going to be, and since the rhino likely has no earthly idea he's supposed to be mortally afraid of a white guy from Texas, shooting it isn't going to require a whole lot of skill unless it's charging him.

I'm all for hunting, but let's do it intelligently.  My family and my in-laws hunt, but they hunt deer and duck.  Deer are herd animals, they don't have nearly enough natural predators in the US, and they aren't endangered.  Ducks are assholes.  But in either case, the human is just substituting himself for a natural predator.  It doesn't sound like this rhino would be dying any time soon without human intervention.

However, I do applaud the proceeds going to support conservation efforts of the other rhinos.
 
2014-01-19 09:32:32 PM  
The kind of people who make threats against him probably don't have the means to carry through on the threats. Probably.
 
2014-01-19 09:35:09 PM  
People are so stupid. This animal will be killed whether by this man or game control. This particular rhino is old and farking evil, it's killing all the younger rhinos. The auction brings in a shiat-ton of money that will be used to protect the other rhinos and it's something that is going to be done anyway.
 
2014-01-19 09:35:36 PM  
You killed an endangered animal for fun. You're a piece of shiat. How do you expect to be treated?

/death threats still not apporpriate
 
2014-01-19 09:37:13 PM  
ingat.info
 
2014-01-19 09:37:42 PM  

sno man: Hoban Washburne: doglover: So, they do indeed have a valid perspective of what hunting is like from their end. The only hunters I respect in the day of industrial slaughter houses and high powered rifles are sniper scouts, or "hunters of gunmen" as they dub themselves.

As someone who eats meat, I'm perfectly fine with "ethical hunting."  That is, hunting overpopulated (or at least not underpopulated) animals that would otherwise starve and eating and/or donating the meat.  A deer that gets killed in the wild has a much better life than a cow in a factory farm.  There is not really a "good death" in nature.  Animals usually die of starvation or getting eaten by other animals.  Being put down by a skilled hunter is probably one of the cleaner deaths possible for wild animals.  True fair chase deer stalking is actually very difficult and physically taxing.

The rhino is endangered and I seriously doubt this guy is planning to eat it, or that it will be a fair chase scenario.  I imagine he'll be driven by a guide in one of those safari jeeps, get relatively close, the rhino will be like "Ehh, whatever" because he's used to people in jeeps, and the guy will just shoot him.  That's a farking shiatty, cowardly thing to do.

You may personally be opposed to all types of hunting, but let's at least separate the reasonable from the ridiculous.

And as bojon pointed out this is a very specific hunt of a small number of post procreating animals with the proceeds of the lottery going to preservation efforts of the herd. I'm putting this on the reasonable side of that equation.


I came here to point out that this hunt was of an animal well past it's breeding years that is aggressive and prevents younger males from breeding, thus stymying the growth of the population, and thus actually a hindrance to maintaining a healthy population. Also I was going to point out that the government of Nairobi has one of the best conservation programs in the world and that they use the money from this hunt to further the program to preserve the species as a whole. Finally I was going to point out that this animal would be killed either way, in order to preserve the herd, and making money off of it to continue the program was a side benefit.

Glad to see it was already mentioned.
 
2014-01-19 09:37:58 PM  

Secret Agent X23: I want to be intimately involved with a black rhino.

TMI, dude.


HA! I don't care if he wants to kill a black rhino, but to f*ck one for 350k? Screw that.
 
2014-01-19 09:39:24 PM  

Kit Fister: I came here to point out that this hunt was of an animal well past it's breeding years that is aggressive and prevents younger males from breeding, thus stymying the growth of the population, and thus actually a hindrance to maintaining a healthy population. Also I was going to point out that the government of Nairobi has one of the best conservation programs in the world and that they use the money from this hunt to further the program to preserve the species as a whole. Finally I was going to point out that this animal would be killed either way, in order to preserve the herd, and making money off of it to continue the program was a side benefit.

Glad to see it was already mentioned.


There are those of us who understand that, but still find it generally loathsome to be the kind of person who kills things for sport. Just that fact alone is pretty much enough to earn the scorn (rightful scorn, IMO) of a lot of people.
 
2014-01-19 09:39:32 PM  

doglover: ecmoRandomNumbers: doglover: He's a hunter. fark him. He knows how the game works.

You're sitting at home, peacefully eating lunch with your family when BLAM a bullet rips out your lungs. You gasp uselessly as blood froths out of mouth and collapse. The last thing you see in your tunnel vision is your wife and children covered in your blood as you fall to the floor. A man in an orange vest kicks in your door and starts to decapitate you, because all he wanted was your head on his wall, but while your family is running away he takes a nice long look at your son and says "Soon, I'm coming back for him!"

Jesus.

Animals are conscious beings. Just because they're tasty and you're ignorant doesn't mean that they're some kind of meat robot. They've each got moods, personalities, memories. Even hive insects of exceedingly uniform nature, like ants, have some variations and learn by experience.

So, they do indeed have a valid perspective of what hunting is like from their end. The only hunters I respect in the day of industrial slaughter houses and high powered rifles are sniper scouts, or "hunters of gunmen" as they dub themselves.

Anyone else is cheating because animals can't shoot back.


So industrial slaughter is good.
 
2014-01-19 09:39:52 PM  

vodka: People are so stupid. This animal will be killed whether by this man or game control. This particular rhino is old and farking evil, it's killing all the younger rhinos. The auction brings in a shiat-ton of money that will be used to protect the other rhinos and it's something that is going to be done anyway.


This. The hunter gets to cough up a lot of dough, the park gets money they need, and the herd as a whole benefits from the removal of a nonbreeding male that prevents the females from being bred by the younger males. Considering the slow reproductive cycle of rhinos as a whole, this does much good for the species.

But yes, hunting is bad, mmmkay.
 
2014-01-19 09:40:04 PM  
Am I on crazy pills, or didn't it come out that the game wardens were going to have to shoot this rhino anyway because he was non-breeding and hurting the other rhinos?
 
2014-01-19 09:40:41 PM  
I want to be intimately involved with a black rhino.

I'm guessing his relationships with humans haven't worked out so well, either?
Let's get intimate, Bob.
Blam!
 
2014-01-19 09:41:01 PM  
This issue isn't so black and white.

The rhino is sterile, but will keep competing with other males for the right to mate females. Thus, it can actually interfere with herd reproduction and attempts to grow the herd's size.

So, ironically, it has to be put down for the sake of species conservation. One option is to auction off a hunting permit just for that rhino and use those proceeds to further help conservation efforts.

Here's an excellent take on the issue by somebody who is generally anti-gun and anti-hunting. It's an ugly solution, but there aren't many pretty ones to begin with.

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2014/01/13/killing-the-namibian-bl ac k-rhino-for-350000/
 
2014-01-19 09:41:08 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Black Rhinos are endangered, douchebags aren't.


When the nuclear apocalypse comes, only roaches, Cher, fruitcake, and douchebags will endure.
 
2014-01-19 09:41:31 PM  
Kind of a nice trollbait.  Somewhat expensive, but if you can pop off with a jerkoff comment here and there you can be suing people for years.
 
2014-01-19 09:41:34 PM  
Maybe they should hold a lottery for a permit to hunt him.
 
2014-01-19 09:42:04 PM  
I'm torn between 'cry me a farking river', 'o the irony', and 'here's the world's smallest violin -> .' - can you help me?
 
2014-01-19 09:42:18 PM  
I hunt the wild and endangered white-tailed deer. Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe, they do shoot back. In fact, if they got the chance, they'd eat you and everyone you care about.

I'm an hero.
 
2014-01-19 09:42:24 PM  
In all honesty, if the animal is of an endangered species and not of a breeding stock, it probably should be killed.  And if you can raise money by killing it, all the better.

If it's not breeding, then all it is doing is taking up resources which could be applied to keeping the breeding stock alive.
 
2014-01-19 09:43:09 PM  

vodka: People are so stupid. This animal will be killed whether by this man or game control. This particular rhino is old and farking evil, it's killing all the younger rhinos. The auction brings in a shiat-ton of money that will be used to protect the other rhinos and it's something that is going to be done anyway.


You are never going to convinve the uneducated dolts that don't understand actual science...you will always lose to the loud, greasy wheels that spout inane pseudo-science.
 
2014-01-19 09:43:30 PM  

DamnYankees: Kit Fister: I came here to point out that this hunt was of an animal well past it's breeding years that is aggressive and prevents younger males from breeding, thus stymying the growth of the population, and thus actually a hindrance to maintaining a healthy population. Also I was going to point out that the government of Nairobi has one of the best conservation programs in the world and that they use the money from this hunt to further the program to preserve the species as a whole. Finally I was going to point out that this animal would be killed either way, in order to preserve the herd, and making money off of it to continue the program was a side benefit.

Glad to see it was already mentioned.

There are those of us who understand that, but still find it generally loathsome to be the kind of person who kills things for sport. Just that fact alone is pretty much enough to earn the scorn (rightful scorn, IMO) of a lot of people.


Well loath and scorn me away, my good man. I gladly hunt animals that are in my area for fun while also gaining food, serving to maintain the population balance, remove animals that are destructive and invasive (wild pigs are a huge example, as are coyotes that go after livestock), and to support a healthy ecosystem.

I enjoy hunting. It is a sport. But it is a sport undertaken that feeds me and mine and also serves to preserve natural balance.
 
2014-01-19 09:44:16 PM  
I'm just looking for an analog from the height of the Roman empire and I can't find one. Not one. Who the heck is this guy to draw my attention from Tacitus?
 
2014-01-19 09:44:28 PM  

Secret Agent X23: I want to be intimately involved with a black rhino.

TMI, dude.



You have a dirty mind. He just means like Ace Ventura:
www.tryredemption.com
 
2014-01-19 09:44:44 PM  
Apex predators gonna predate.
 
2014-01-19 09:44:58 PM  
I'm a white rhino, so I don't have to worry about this guy getting intimate with me.
 
2014-01-19 09:45:33 PM  

Kit Fister: Well loath and scorn me away, my good man. I gladly hunt animals that are in my area for fun while also gaining food, serving to maintain the population balance, remove animals that are destructive and invasive (wild pigs are a huge example, as are coyotes that go after livestock), and to support a healthy ecosystem.

I enjoy hunting. It is a sport. But it is a sport undertaken that feeds me and mine and also serves to preserve natural balance.


You can say "hunting is a sport" as much as you want, it doesn't make it so. It's killing things which are trying to not get killed.

"Fun for you" != sport
 
2014-01-19 09:45:34 PM  

Kit Fister: But yes, hunting is bad, mmmkay.


Hunting is okay if you're doing it for the right reasons - food, population control, tradition...

Those reasons are not including bragging rights and a horn to mount on your wall.
 
2014-01-19 09:45:40 PM  
Relax dudes, it's not like he's a retired TV preacher or something.
 
2014-01-19 09:46:43 PM  

hardinparamedic: Hunting is okay if you're doing it for the right reasons - food, population control, tradition...


How is "tradition" a right reason?
 
2014-01-19 09:47:07 PM  

doglover: ecmoRandomNumbers: doglover: He's a hunter. fark him. He knows how the game works.

You're sitting at home, peacefully eating lunch with your family when BLAM a bullet rips out your lungs. You gasp uselessly as blood froths out of mouth and collapse. The last thing you see in your tunnel vision is your wife and children covered in your blood as you fall to the floor. A man in an orange vest kicks in your door and starts to decapitate you, because all he wanted was your head on his wall, but while your family is running away he takes a nice long look at your son and says "Soon, I'm coming back for him!"

Jesus.

Animals are conscious beings. Just because they're tasty and you're ignorant doesn't mean that they're some kind of meat robot. They've each got moods, personalities, memories. Even hive insects of exceedingly uniform nature, like ants, have some variations and learn by experience.

So, they do indeed have a valid perspective of what hunting is like from their end. The only hunters I respect in the day of industrial slaughter houses and high powered rifles are sniper scouts, or "hunters of gunmen" as they dub themselves.

Anyone else is cheating because animals can't shoot back.


It's a brutal reality, but we are meat eaters, and we kill conscious animals for food, every single day.
 
2014-01-19 09:47:28 PM  
The hunter becomes the hunted. mlol*.

*muahahaha
 
2014-01-19 09:47:30 PM  
Wait a minute... I figured it out! They're just creating jobs! But who gets the credit: the GOP hunter/enablers, or the Dem hippies threatening him? Hmmm... It's a puzzle.
 
2014-01-19 09:48:37 PM  
Meh. I seem to be the only one that thinks managed hunting for exorbitant fees is a good way to get assholes to pay for conservation.  The alternative is likely no money, no park/reserve and instead of a "X" many dying per year the whole lot is lost to uncontrolled poaching.

The alternative is there is no money to protect them and they all die.


Of course, all those PETA-philes could get together and throw a few bob in each and buy up the hunting rights each year and then none have to die. But then, I guess there is no naked attention whoring in that so that would never float.
 
2014-01-19 09:49:17 PM  

zzrhardy: I seem to be the only one that thinks managed hunting for exorbitant fees is a good way to get assholes to pay for conservation.  The alternative is likely no money, no park/reserve and instead of a "X" many dying per year the whole lot is lost to uncontrolled poaching.

The alternative is there is no money to protect them and they all die.


The alternative is that this guy could have just donated the money.
 
2014-01-19 09:49:25 PM  

DamnYankees: How is "tradition" a right reason?


See Native Americans and tribal cultures.
 
2014-01-19 09:49:49 PM  

doglover: He's a hunter. fark him. He knows how the game works.

You're sitting at home, peacefully eating lunch with your family when BLAM a bullet rips out your lungs. You gasp uselessly as blood froths out of mouth and collapse. The last thing you see in your tunnel vision is your wife and children covered in your blood as you fall to the floor. A man in an orange vest kicks in your door and starts to decapitate you, because all he wanted was your head on his wall, but while your family is running away he takes a nice long look at your son and says "Soon, I'm coming back for him!"


Decaf dude.


/hunter
//dont do "trophies" though...wastes too much meat.
 
2014-01-19 09:50:35 PM  

hardinparamedic: DamnYankees: How is "tradition" a right reason?

See Native Americans and tribal cultures.


Ok - how is "tradition" a right reason? I don't care if you're European or Indian, its not a good reason.

Also, most Indians would laugh in your face if you said the reason they hunted was tradition - Indians hunted for food and fur and useful reasons.
 
2014-01-19 09:50:56 PM  

bojon: Rhinos don't live forever folks. After they reach a certain age they do not procreate. $350K dedicated to saving the rest of the gene pool versus $0K if the animal just keels over and dies.


Remember that Boomers. Read the ACA REAL close.
 
2014-01-19 09:51:10 PM  

vodka: People are so stupid. This animal will be killed whether by this man or game control. This particular rhino is old and farking evil, it's killing all the younger rhinos. The auction brings in a shiat-ton of money that will be used to protect the other rhinos and it's something that is going to be done anyway.


And dying by being shot is probably a cleaner way for it to go than being eaten alive by lions or something when it's too old and infirm to run anymore.
 
2014-01-19 09:51:59 PM  
What a crybaby. Oooh, you got death threats on the Internet. That doesn't mean you're actually in danger, you puscatore, it just means 12-year-olds have access to Twitter.
 
2014-01-19 09:52:04 PM  

DamnYankees: zzrhardy: I seem to be the only one that thinks managed hunting for exorbitant fees is a good way to get assholes to pay for conservation.  The alternative is likely no money, no park/reserve and instead of a "X" many dying per year the whole lot is lost to uncontrolled poaching.

The alternative is there is no money to protect them and they all die.

The alternative is that this guy could have just donated the money.


He's an asshole. He's not going to donate money to an environmental cause. And the liberal whiners are serving fries and can't afford to donate money.
 
2014-01-19 09:52:08 PM  

DamnYankees: Also, most Indians would laugh in your face if you said the reason they hunted was tradition - Indians hunted for food and fur and useful reasons.


Most Indians would also punch you in the face if you called them an Indian too.
 
2014-01-19 09:52:08 PM  
so this rhino is a old man kicking the shiate out of the teenager rhinos.  until one of those young punks kick that old bastards in the nads let him live.
 
2014-01-19 09:52:29 PM  

RogermcAllen: Am I on crazy pills, or didn't it come out that the game wardens were going to have to shoot this rhino anyway because he was non-breeding and hurting the other rhinos?


Yep. But that doesn't stop people who can't get past the killing part. To some, the taking of a life with no remorse is a heinous thing. I get that. But in understanding that our natural world thrives on both life and death, and the balance between the two, there is no shame in hunting or playing the role of a predator. The problem is predation with no natural counterbalance, which is why predation checked by laws and conservation efforts is key.

Whether you enjoy the hunting sport or not, consider that humanity dominates the eco systems of the planet, and we have overrun countless natural habitats, disrupted many natural cycles and controls, and otherwise done a great job at throwing a monkey wrench into the works that kept the whole damn system running and everything in its place.

We also went so far as to extend our hubris and expectation of the infinite green world to excess. We've come a long way in learning how to better balance ourselves against the natural world. But that also means we still have a duty to act as predators, even more so with our destruction of other apex predators through habitat destruction, hunting, and dislocation.

Enjoying the act of hunting as a sport to many/most isn't about the killing, but the act of testing yourself against nature. There are many aspects to enjoy that has nothing to do with the killing. The killing is about the gaining of resources or acting as population control. And given how tasty most of the animals (save for feral pig and coyote) are, you're dumb if you don't eat what you kill.

But that's just me.
 
2014-01-19 09:53:36 PM  

hardinparamedic: DamnYankees: Also, most Indians would laugh in your face if you said the reason they hunted was tradition - Indians hunted for food and fur and useful reasons.

Most Indians would also punch you in the face if you called them an Indian too.


No they wouldn't. Have you ever met an Indian? The ones I've met (and my father is an adopted member of the Oglala Sioux) call themselves Indians and think the other names are stupid.

I'm sure some Indians don't like the term, and if I meet one who doesn't like it I won't use it, but I've never met an Indian who was offended by it.

Generally though, they prefer to be called by their actual tribe name.
 
2014-01-19 09:53:36 PM  

quatchi: Christ, what an asshole.


Stop picking on doglover
 
2014-01-19 09:53:52 PM  
Good.
 
2014-01-19 09:55:25 PM  

DamnYankees: zzrhardy: I seem to be the only one that thinks managed hunting for exorbitant fees is a good way to get assholes to pay for conservation.  The alternative is likely no money, no park/reserve and instead of a "X" many dying per year the whole lot is lost to uncontrolled poaching.

The alternative is there is no money to protect them and they all die.

The alternative is that this guy could have just donated the money.


And the rhino would still be killed. There is no scenario here where the rhino was going to live.
 
2014-01-19 09:55:32 PM  

DamnYankees: No they wouldn't. Have you ever met an Indian? The ones I've met (and my father is an adopted member of the Oglala Sioux) call themselves Indians and think the other names are stupid.

I'm sure some Indians don't like the term, and if I meet one who doesn't like it I won't use it, but I've never met an Indian who was offended by it.

Generally though, they prefer to be called by their actual tribe name.


Indian:

wanderlustandlipstick.com

Native American:

Seriously. Don't be that guy. You might as well say "My black friends say it's cool if I say the N word"
 
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