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(The Atlantic Cities)   44 percent of young employed college grads are currently mired in dead-end jobs, same rate as in 1994, but with a difference. "The underemployed have come to look less like administrative assistants and more like dog walkers"   (theatlanticcities.com) divider line 79
    More: Obvious, dead-end job, administrative assistant, dog walking  
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2377 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Jan 2014 at 4:12 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-19 04:17:38 PM
FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.
 
2014-01-19 04:20:15 PM
draftpanthers.com

The world needs ditch diggers dog walkers too!
 
2014-01-19 04:22:55 PM

Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.


Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.
 
2014-01-19 04:27:35 PM
To be fair, it almost requires a degree in theoretical physics to operate photocopiers these days. Have you seen these things? They're as big as a car and they staple, hole punch, soak, spin, collate, slice, dice and make Julienne fries.

/got nothin' but feel their pain
 
2014-01-19 04:29:14 PM

sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.


Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.
 
2014-01-19 04:32:26 PM

Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.


Why is that, I wonder?
 
2014-01-19 04:33:22 PM

Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.


~~You mean I did not need to get my CSI degree from University of Phoenix to be shift manager at Taco Bell?

~~Who knew. . .
 
2014-01-19 04:34:29 PM

sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?


Because it "requires" a degree to work in HR.
 
2014-01-19 04:35:06 PM
Oh, wait, here we go.

This prerequisite applies to everyone, including the receptionist, paralegals, administrative assistants and file clerks. Even the office "runner" - the in-house courier who, for $10 an hour, ferries documents back and forth between the courthouse and the office - went to a four-year school.

"College graduates are just more career-oriented," said Adam Slipakoff, the firm's managing partner. "Going to college means they are making a real commitment to their futures. They're not just looking for a paycheck."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/college-degree-required-by - increasing-number-of-companies.html?pagewanted=all

"They're in debt, and so they need us more."
 
2014-01-19 04:35:21 PM

sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?


The standard has been raised?
 
2014-01-19 04:38:44 PM

Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?

Because it "requires" a degree to work in HR.


more like HR is too lazy to do their job so they just put in a bunch of BS requirements for work, tell everyone "we can't find any qualified candidates to hire people this generation are just too lazy and don't wanna work etc." so the people still working there gotta work more hours while the HR people play candy crush saga all day
 
2014-01-19 04:39:09 PM

Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.


Which means no difference to the applicant.

Rent Party: Are you designing bridges and damns?


I'm barely giving them, let alone designing them.
 
2014-01-19 04:40:20 PM
" Fed calls "good non-college jobs," which today pay at least $45,000 a year "

So where can my wife, with her BS in accounting and two decades of work experience find one of these $45K/yr jobs?
 
2014-01-19 04:41:38 PM

Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.


And very few microwaves require a front door key, but good luck getting into the kitchen without one.
 
2014-01-19 04:44:10 PM
95% of people, of all ages, are in dead-end jobs, because the vast majority of people haven't worked out what they actually want to do.

If the only reason you do what you do is to eat and pay the rent.....  then so are you.
 
2014-01-19 04:44:15 PM

Fireproof: sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?

The standard has been raised?


A degree, unrelated to job function, indicates a higher standard employee?
 
2014-01-19 04:46:59 PM
Even level entry jobs require a degree. Why someone who works at the cable company who answers phones would need a degree in order to tell someone to unplug their modem..... No idea.
 
2014-01-19 04:50:05 PM

Fireproof: sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?

The standard has been raised?


And unsurprisingly, the wages have not.
 
2014-01-19 04:51:40 PM

falcon176: more like HR is too lazy to do their job so they just put in a bunch of BS requirements for work, tell everyone "we can't find any qualified candidates to hire people this generation are just too lazy and don't wanna work etc." so the people still working there gotta work more hours while the HR people play candy crush saga all day


True facts. We have an immigrant who we recently converted from a contractor to a full time employee. He's great, easily our top hire in recent memory. Already trained up during his time as a contractor. HR lady told him 'bring ID'. He brought his driver's license. What she REALLY meant was 'Bring your ID, home country passport, and residence documentation or you're fired'. No problem, he has 3 business days to get that sorted out. Except she goes on vacation the next day, and somehow this is HIS problem to solve, as opposed to her... Oh, I don't know, telling one of the other 15 local, theoretically-qualified HR people about the problem and letting them check his ID tomorrow.

He solved it (by driving an 80 mile round trip home to go get the documents), but I had a field day on HR lady's boss because you do not farking threaten to fire a highly valuable employee because you're going on farking vacation and can't be arsed to do your own job. And my boss had a similarly fun time. And so did HIS boss. Of course, now HR is sandbagging on my next new hire... They really are farking scum. Worse than the contracting agencies when you get down to it.

Seriously. $150k highly-specialized, unicorn-rare only-one-on-the-continent IT specialist versus $40k entry level "HR Generalist" whose duties boil down to 'glorified administrative assistant'.
 
2014-01-19 04:58:12 PM

Weng: falcon176: more like HR is too lazy to do their job so they just put in a bunch of BS requirements for work, tell everyone "we can't find any qualified candidates to hire people this generation are just too lazy and don't wanna work etc." so the people still working there gotta work more hours while the HR people play candy crush saga all day

True facts. We have an immigrant who we recently converted from a contractor to a full time employee. He's great, easily our top hire in recent memory. Already trained up during his time as a contractor. HR lady told him 'bring ID'. He brought his driver's license. What she REALLY meant was 'Bring your ID, home country passport, and residence documentation or you're fired'. No problem, he has 3 business days to get that sorted out. Except she goes on vacation the next day, and somehow this is HIS problem to solve, as opposed to her... Oh, I don't know, telling one of the other 15 local, theoretically-qualified HR people about the problem and letting them check his ID tomorrow.

He solved it (by driving an 80 mile round trip home to go get the documents), but I had a field day on HR lady's boss because you do not farking threaten to fire a highly valuable employee because you're going on farking vacation and can't be arsed to do your own job. And my boss had a similarly fun time. And so did HIS boss. Of course, now HR is sandbagging on my next new hire... They really are farking scum. Worse than the contracting agencies when you get down to it.

Seriously. $150k highly-specialized, unicorn-rare only-one-on-the-continent IT specialist versus $40k entry level "HR Generalist" whose duties boil down to 'glorified administrative assistant'.


They hold the keys to the kingdom.

You'd best bow and scrape some to get back in their good graces.
 
2014-01-19 05:06:39 PM

Weng: He solved it (by driving an 80 mile round trip home to go get the documents


That's not very far, man. That's like 40 miles both ways.

I used to commute 31 just to go to normal work. Another ten each way would be nothing. Did you mean 160 mile round trip?
 
2014-01-19 05:42:27 PM

doglover: Weng: He solved it (by driving an 80 mile round trip home to go get the documents

That's not very far, man. That's like 40 miles both ways.

I used to commute 31 just to go to normal work. Another ten each way would be nothing. Did you mean 160 mile round trip?


I do 80 miles each way personally. But I'm not a dick and most of my minions are far more sensitive to such matters. Also, sending a $100k salaried employee off on a stupid documents errand for 2 hours cost us like $100 AND a tangible chunk of good will.

sendtodave: They hold the keys to the kingdom.

You'd best bow and scrape some to get back in their good graces.


No thanks. I play at power levels beyond the comprehension of mere HR thugs. That's the nice thing about sprawling corporations - there's ALWAYS someone you can sell your soul to for patronage.
 
2014-01-19 05:47:20 PM
I had to have a degree to complete my real estate appraiser certification.

I'm a CRA, and my degree is liberal arts, lol.

Couldn't do my job without that degree tho.

Well could do it, but couldn't get the requisite paper work without it.

Same difference I guess
 
2014-01-19 05:54:37 PM

doglover: Weng: He solved it (by driving an 80 mile round trip home to go get the documents

That's not very far, man. That's like 40 miles both ways.

I used to commute 31 just to go to normal work. Another ten each way would be nothing. Did you mean 160 mile round trip?


See, this is the pants on head dumb thought process of a HR person though. The guy makes $150k, so figure around an hour and a half travel costs the company $110 for him to drive out there for stuff that could have been brought in the following day without the extra loss of productivity.

Has nothing to do with the distance, it's about HR flexing their authority. Those folks make DMV workers look productive.
 
2014-01-19 06:17:42 PM
I'd be good at HR. I'm quite practical, not vindictive, and understand that getting the job done comes first. It's a shame I'm the worst interviewee anyone has ever seen. Still, no one to blame but myself.
 
2014-01-19 06:34:18 PM
Sure.  What's the difference between a secretary and a dog walker?  Neither of them requires any sort of education or real skills.  Dog walking just hasn't been automated out of existence yet.
 
2014-01-19 06:37:31 PM

Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.


Yeah, a lot of my friends are in pretty damn good careers, in fields that are barely related to their degree, but they needed a four-year degree in SOMETHING just to get an interview.

/I had a platoon leader who got commissioned through ROTC, while majoring in something like Medieval Literature.  He now pulls down 150K working for a defense contractor.
 
2014-01-19 06:38:07 PM

Weng: eriously. $150k highly-specialized, unicorn-rare only-one-on-the-continent IT specialist versus $40k entry level "HR Generalist" whose duties boil down to 'glorified administrative assistant'.


Yeah, but if he gets fed up with her shiat and quits, she gets to have claimed to have saved the company $150k on her next performance review.  If she does that to his replacement(s) she's going to look pretty valuable!
 
2014-01-19 06:41:46 PM
Don't forget to check the HR/Recruiter's Linkedin account when they want you to have at least 5 years experience/job longevity. Take note of how many 9 months to 1.5 years they have of job jumping. Quite interesting when they ask you "do you have any questions for me?"
 
2014-01-19 07:04:59 PM

Weng: doglover: Weng: He solved it (by driving an 80 mile round trip home to go get the documents

That's not very far, man. That's like 40 miles both ways.

I used to commute 31 just to go to normal work. Another ten each way would be nothing. Did you mean 160 mile round trip?

I do 80 miles each way personally. But I'm not a dick and most of my minions are far more sensitive to such matters. Also, sending a $100k salaried employee off on a stupid documents errand for 2 hours cost us like $100 AND a tangible chunk of good will.


If he was hourly at a high rate, like myself, then the company would be going to extra expense for that. The company pays him $100K every year regardless of how many hours he works.
 
2014-01-19 07:24:37 PM

Rent Party: Are you designing damns?


Now I'm wondering if I could get a degree in maledictions...

/or is that what HR requires?
 
2014-01-19 07:29:35 PM

sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?


Because it is a buyer's market for employment.

Nice guy? I don't give a shiat. Good father? fark you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here, come with a B.A., five years' experience, and familiarity with every version of Windows dating back to the Command line days. Because that's what every one of the 972 other applicants are bringing.

Not to worry, though- if you don't want to participate in this process, you have a few other options:

1: Find that one, magical skill that is in high demand, and then learn the hell out of that. You'll still have to deal with idiots- as a poster above me illustrated- but you'll be raking in the dough. Bonus points if the skill is basically useless, i.e.: expertise in some software that nobody uses anymore except for one very stubborn but very valuable client.
2: S the D (either physically or metaphorically) of some people who are much more powerful and influential than you and who can advance your career. The polite name for this is "Networking".
3: Start your own business, where the only asshole you will have to deal with is yourself.
 
2014-01-19 07:37:57 PM

Spadababababababa Spadina Bus: sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?

Because it is a buyer's market for employment.

Nice guy? I don't give a shiat. Good father? fark you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here, come with a B.A., five years' experience, and familiarity with every version of Windows dating back to the Command line days. Because that's what every one of the 972 other applicants are bringing.

Not to worry, though- if you don't want to participate in this process, you have a few other options:

1: Find that one, magical skill that is in high demand, and then learn the hell out of that. You'll still have to deal with idiots- as a poster above me illustrated- but you'll be raking in the dough. Bonus points if the skill is basically useless, i.e.: expertise in some software that nobody uses anymore except for one very stubborn but very valuable client.
2: S the D (either physically or metaphorically) of some people who are much more powerful and influential than you and who can advance your career. The polite name for this is "Networking".
3: Start your own business, where the only asshole you will have to deal with is yourself.


I went with #1.
 
2014-01-19 07:47:58 PM
I graduated in 1984 and am in a job with a dead-end career, so I'm getting a kick ...
 
2014-01-19 09:10:52 PM

RoxtarRyan: Even level entry jobs require a degree. Why someone who works at the cable company who answers phones would need a degree in order to tell someone to unplug their modem..... No idea.


It's not that they're looking for someone with a degree to answer phones: they're looking for someone with a degree who can deal with stupid people on a daily basis without blowing a sprocket. At the local cable company, everybody -from engineers to accountants to linemen to management- starts their employment with 3-6 months answering phones in customer service.
 
2014-01-19 09:32:42 PM

sendtodave: I went with #1.


So did a friend of ours (electrician's apprentice).

Fiance is going for #2 (he's a musician, it's a job requirement) and I'm working the #3 angle. The most important lesson I've learned from the recession is to not rely on a single source of income.
 
2014-01-19 10:46:20 PM
Who doesn't have their admin walk their dog?

Next thing you know you'll be telling me I should hire someone extra to pick up my laundry!
 
2014-01-19 10:49:53 PM

sendtodave: Going to college means they are making a real commitment to their futures.


That's a funny way of saying "the banks."

If you go to school for art history, and end up with $80k in loans, you're not career-oriented.  The only thing you've demonstrated is that you have no grasp of your own finances.  For most of us, everybody except for doctors, nurses, pilots, teachers, etc., "following your dream" is different from choosing a career.  We've convinced an entire generation that you can ride the rainbow bridge of imagination land to your four-year degree and somehow a job will appear in front of you in a puff of unicorn farts at the end of the road.  I think we should graduate people from high school a year earlier, then have a minimum of one year of compulsory national service in various fields (agriculture, labor, healthcare, education, the military, civil service, etc.), and once that's over, at 18 or 19, we give everybody two years worth of basic undergrad classes at a state institution or junior college if it's available and not totally shiatty, and based on how well you do AND the demands of the economy (as well as financial situation), and your interests, you get a certain percentage (from 0-100) of your tuition covered.  And I would put private schools under the microscope, and withhold federal funding if their tuition is grossly misaligned with their graduation and job placement rates.  If after your two free years of schooling are up and you haven't chosen a career, and you want to "find yourself" by getting __________ (non-essential liberal arts degree) then go right ahead, get private loans or a scholarship.  If you want to drive trucks, get involved in STEM, healthcare, renewable energy, etc., then you get a full-ride, and maybe even a cash bonus for you and your first employer out of school if you keep your grades up and stay out of trouble.

I would also establish a national jobs program, rather than having us treat every level of government (particularly state and local) as a jobs program for people who are chronically unemployable and/or related to politicians and their donors.  I'd also be willing to dole out tax breaks to companies that hire and train young people, provided the employer meets certain standards in regards to working conditions and compensation.
 
2014-01-19 11:00:21 PM

Sgt Otter: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Yeah, a lot of my friends are in pretty damn good careers, in fields that are barely related to their degree, but they needed a four-year degree in SOMETHING just to get an interview.

/I had a platoon leader who got commissioned through ROTC, while majoring in something like Medieval Literature.  He now pulls down 150K working for a defense contractor.




Medieval Lit was popular as an undergrad for pre-law in the early 1980's.
 
2014-01-19 11:47:29 PM
I had to work 20 years to get a dead-end job.  You kids today are spoiled.
 
2014-01-19 11:52:15 PM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Medieval Lit was popular as an undergrad for pre-law in the early 1980's.


Any field in English still is.

That said:  why are we letting corporations who focus on dumbing down specialized positions tell us what degrees are valuable or not?  The world changes so much in four years now that paying for a degree for a specific position is idiotic.  If corporations want certain hiring standards, then divorce them from the college system.  Start training programs.  Stop shifting the responsibility for your own company's future onto undischargeable debt for your future workers.

But, the real problem here still exists in those who manage the corporations.  Building towards your future negates short-term gains, and right now the 1% are cashing out.  In short:  why bother listening to a media bought and paid for by the same people who deem to screw you over?  fark what they think about my degree.  They can't even run a company properly before they bounce off to another one.  Why Americans give the rich carte blanche to treat them like ignorant children is an issue all of us really need to examine.
 
2014-01-20 12:10:41 AM

Weng: falcon176: more like HR is too lazy to do their job so they just put in a bunch of BS requirements for work, tell everyone "we can't find any qualified candidates to hire people this generation are just too lazy and don't wanna work etc." so the people still working there gotta work more hours while the HR people play candy crush saga all day

True facts. We have an immigrant who we recently converted from a contractor to a full time employee. He's great, easily our top hire in recent memory. Already trained up during his time as a contractor. HR lady told him 'bring ID'. He brought his driver's license. What she REALLY meant was 'Bring your ID, home country passport, and residence documentation or you're fired'. No problem, he has 3 business days to get that sorted out. Except she goes on vacation the next day, and somehow this is HIS problem to solve, as opposed to her... Oh, I don't know, telling one of the other 15 local, theoretically-qualified HR people about the problem and letting them check his ID tomorrow.

He solved it (by driving an 80 mile round trip home to go get the documents), but I had a field day on HR lady's boss because you do not farking threaten to fire a highly valuable employee because you're going on farking vacation and can't be arsed to do your own job. And my boss had a similarly fun time. And so did HIS boss. Of course, now HR is sandbagging on my next new hire... They really are farking scum. Worse than the contracting agencies when you get down to it.

Seriously. $150k highly-specialized, unicorn-rare only-one-on-the-continent IT specialist versus $40k entry level "HR Generalist" whose duties boil down to 'glorified administrative assistant'.


A dime holding up a dollar
 
2014-01-20 12:13:59 AM

Guntram Shatterhand: Why Americans give the rich carte blanche to treat them like ignorant children is an issue all of us really need to examine.


My hand to god I don't. But when we speak up, we're "arrogant brats." Doesn't matter how PC you are.

/now I'm not PC and I don't care.
//I'm here to work, pay me or I walk.
 
2014-01-20 01:21:24 AM
Fark It:

If you go to school for art history, and end up with $80k in loans, you're not career-oriented.  The only thing you've demonstrated is that you have no grasp of your own finances.

On the contrary, I'd say that what you've demonstrated is that you don't want a 50-hour/week job working mindless job for a shiatty corporation.

I went to school for art history, have some (very manageable) debt, and am quite career-oriented. I like being able to set my own schedule, work from home as needed, and not clock in or have people looking over my shoulder all day long. I had no fantasy that unicorn gas would provide me a job. I got it, and kept it, because I worked hard to be good at what I do. This includes the research and writing, and service work, that are in addition to my teaching responsibilities, and which largely take place during the breaks in-between semesters when I am not paid to work (I'm on a 9-month contract). I agreed to my student loans and am happy to make my payment every month because they allowed me to attain the credentials required to do what I wanted to do. I had some private-sector jobs along the way, and quickly learned that ethics quickly go out the window when the bottom line can be improved by ignoring them. Fark that.

Yes, I spent a lot of time in grad school and accrued some debt because of it.

But I actually love my job.
 
2014-01-20 03:15:45 AM

houstondragon: Fireproof: sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?

The standard has been raised?

And unsurprisingly, the wages have not.


We've upped our standards...up yours!
 
2014-01-20 04:12:38 AM

serial_crusher: Sure.  What's the difference between a secretary and a dog walker?  Neither of them requires any sort of education or real skills.  Dog walking just hasn't been automated out of existence yet.


Everyone I know that is worth more than $100 mil has a PA and their PA's aren't idiots.  Most of them came from middle class homes but learned how to make use of a good assistant early in their careers.  My father managed a group of engineers where they had one secretary for every 4 plus one for the group and one for each manager.  When they decided the ones for the engineers were no longer needed, the group's productivity went down so much, they needed to double the number of engineers.
 
2014-01-20 08:39:17 AM

DON.MAC: serial_crusher: Sure.  What's the difference between a secretary and a dog walker?  Neither of them requires any sort of education or real skills.  Dog walking just hasn't been automated out of existence yet.

Everyone I know that is worth more than $100 mil has a PA and their PA's aren't idiots.  Most of them came from middle class homes but learned how to make use of a good assistant early in their careers.  My father managed a group of engineers where they had one secretary for every 4 plus one for the group and one for each manager.  When they decided the ones for the engineers were no longer needed, the group's productivity went down so much, they needed to double the number of engineers.


I guess I've gotten used to the system I work in (no secretaries/admin assistants/whatever).  What does a secretary do for a group of 4 engineers, that they can't do themselves?  I guess if she'll fill out my goddamned timesheets and chase the accounting people about that VMWare license I need, I'll get on board.  Some changes in the HR and accounting departments might be just as effective though.
 
2014-01-20 09:34:41 AM

Ishidan: houstondragon: Fireproof: sendtodave: Rent Party: sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.

Exactly.  The degree isn't a requirement of the job, it's a requirement of HR.

Why is that, I wonder?

The standard has been raised?

And unsurprisingly, the wages have not.

We've upped our standards...up yours!


Surely this is what is expected - generally jobs will take the best candidate (as far as they can tell), so the primary affect of lots more people with degrees will be to devalue degrees (supply increases, demand stays about the same, price goes down).

Secondary effects might increase the aggregate demand for degrees in the country somewhat - for example attracting large businesses or new sectors to set up in your country as it has a plentiful supply of degree educated individuals for them to draw from, etc., but it will never be enough to make up for the supply glut created.
 
2014-01-20 10:13:15 AM

sendtodave: Rent Party: FTFA: "Using Census data, the bank's researchers found that, through 2012, roughly 44 percent of working, young college graduates were "underemployed," meaning they were in a job that did not require their degree. "

Here's the thing:  Damn near every job out there doesn't require your degree.  Are you designing bridges and damns?  Are you performing heart surgery or treating cancer patients?   If not, then your job can probably be performed by anyone willing to learn it, degree or not.

Of course, your typical job posting lists a degree as a requirement, and your application will be automatically sorted out of the running if you don't have one.

So, really, most jobs require a degree even if they don't require a degree.


I haven't read the entire thread, but this is the biggest lie told today. 7 year sysadmin here and no degree. I was the lead sysadmin for a high performing, publicly traded bank and no one ever batted an eye during the interview process.
 
2014-01-20 10:24:07 AM
If you don't like it, start your own damn company
 
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