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(CNN)   Maryland mom performs exorcism on her children, succeeds in releasing their trapped souls   (cnn.com) divider line 254
    More: Fail, woman charged, Montgomery County Police  
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12802 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2014 at 4:05 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-19 07:10:26 PM  

BATMANATEE: megarian: BATMANATEE: Which religion uses a knife as part of an exorcism? The Abrahamic ones don't, so voodoo or some kind of tribal stuff maybe?

I'm....I'm pretty sure the point is exorcism shouldn't be a thing.

I do get that. I'm just curious what brand of nonsense they were following.


Well, then the two of us are going to be just fine!
 
2014-01-19 07:13:24 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Z-clipped: wademh: Look dude, I'm a militant agnostic, meaning I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Are you "agnostic" about the existence of Santa Claus?

Which Santa? Black or Real?


This is one of the best comments I have heard in a long time.
 
2014-01-19 07:22:39 PM  

kwame: Magruda: kwame: I feel bad for your experience. I feel worse that it left you so incredibly small-minded.

Small minded does not mean "lends no credence to insanity".

Not sure what you think you're saying. Your mother was insane. If she didn't use religion as a catalyst, it would have been aliens or the government or fluoride in the water. Quit blaming something that was in no way the cause of your treatment.


If it was involved in the scenario, then it was an extant variable in his situation.  Do you have zero idea how reality and causality works?
 
2014-01-19 07:26:37 PM  

meanmutton: Cpl.D: skantea: All comments about religion will reveal your personal bias.  The biatch was just plain crazy.  If has had said the moon made her do it, would we question whether the moon was bad for us?

The moon doesn't actively encourage this behavior.  Some religious sects do.

What religious sects encourage stabbing children?


The Bible has laws and stories about killing disobedient children.  There is a prominent story where God asked a father to kill his child in a sacrifice and the father goes through with it, but god swaps the child at the last second (LOL! I troll you!).

So, yeah, Christianity is pretty shaky on the whole good parenting front.
 
2014-01-19 07:27:35 PM  
Magruda: Nacc: There are plenty of people this crazy without religion. Religion is not a requirement to be crazy, just as it is not a requirement to treat people decently, and with compassion.

Yes, but often religion can mask or shield the crazy from discovery and preventative care.


Can you provide some examples?
 
2014-01-19 07:28:12 PM  
Know how many atheists hold exorcisms? farking zero.
 
rpm
2014-01-19 07:30:46 PM  

Novart: Magruda: Nacc: There are plenty of people this crazy without religion. Religion is not a requirement to be crazy, just as it is not a requirement to treat people decently, and with compassion.

Yes, but often religion can mask or shield the crazy from discovery and preventative care.

Can you provide some examples?


Sure thing
 
2014-01-19 07:33:56 PM  

skantea: All comments about religion will reveal your personal bias.  The biatch was just plain crazy.  If has had said the moon made her do it, would we question whether the moon was bad for us?


Just about every single religion has some form of demon. Eastern, Western, you name it demons, evil spirits, possession, it's all in the realm of religion. Atheism has no demons. So suggesting that you can't blame religion for something that appears exclusively in religion shows your personal bias, not anyone else's.

That said, ya the major component here was the crazy.
 
2014-01-19 07:42:28 PM  

sendtodave: God talks to you: crazy.
You talk to God: sane?

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

/not just politics, old politics
 
2014-01-19 07:44:12 PM  

iaazathot: kwame: Magruda: kwame: I feel bad for your experience. I feel worse that it left you so incredibly small-minded.

Small minded does not mean "lends no credence to insanity".

Not sure what you think you're saying. Your mother was insane. If she didn't use religion as a catalyst, it would have been aliens or the government or fluoride in the water. Quit blaming something that was in no way the cause of your treatment.

If it was involved in the scenario, then it was an extant variable in his situation.  Do you have zero idea how reality and causality works?


You Internet-argue too much.
 
2014-01-19 07:50:41 PM  

Magruda: wellreadneck: Your mother is an evangelical who blesses with holy water? That is crazy.
Yeah, one of those assemblies of god where they slay in the spirit, speak in tongues, and invite faith healers on a regular basis.


I have a friend who used to be married to someone who was that crazy, and was in those churches with him. (He was actually like a lay preacher there). He sexually abused their daughters, and some of the stories she told me were insanity X100. She managed to escape from him, but it just about cost her her life. The kids were all farked up.

One of the many reasons I don't like religion, even though I think it's harmless a lot of the time. Churches attract crazy people.  The more extreme the church, the crazier the people.
 
2014-01-19 07:50:47 PM  

Bslim: Isn't religion awesome?


All religious people are exactly like this lady. All of them.

/ I have no idea how we aren't stacking the dead up in Mount Everest size piles.
 
2014-01-19 07:50:59 PM  

kwame: iaazathot: kwame: Magruda: kwame: I feel bad for your experience. I feel worse that it left you so incredibly small-minded.

Small minded does not mean "lends no credence to insanity".

Not sure what you think you're saying. Your mother was insane. If she didn't use religion as a catalyst, it would have been aliens or the government or fluoride in the water. Quit blaming something that was in no way the cause of your treatment.

If it was involved in the scenario, then it was an extant variable in his situation.  Do you have zero idea how reality and causality works?

You Internet-argue too much.


Look at the blow-up doll addict performing e-slap!

/you are forever "that guy" to me kwame
 
2014-01-19 07:51:33 PM  
Maybe she just got confused between her kids and this viral marketing campaign:

www.shotmcn.com
 
2014-01-19 07:54:55 PM  

rpm: Novart: Magruda: Nacc: There are plenty of people this crazy without religion. Religion is not a requirement to be crazy, just as it is not a requirement to treat people decently, and with compassion.

Yes, but often religion can mask or shield the crazy from discovery and preventative care.

Can you provide some examples?

Sure thing


They failed to open the door. Is the door a metaphor for religion?
 
2014-01-19 07:55:24 PM  

skantea: All comments about religion will reveal your personal bias.  The biatch was just plain crazy.  If has had said the moon made her do it, would we question whether the moon was bad for us?


Yeah, but she wasn't peforming a moondance was she? She was performing an exorcism.

Trying to deny religion has anything to do with a death by exorcism is just revealing your own personal bias.
 
2014-01-19 07:55:50 PM  

kwame: You Internet-argue too much.


Translation: I got nothing.
 
2014-01-19 07:58:52 PM  

Magruda: kwame: You Internet-argue too much.

Translation: I got nothing.


Turn the computer off and get some therapy man. You're projecting.
 
2014-01-19 08:02:00 PM  

miss diminutive: And yet some people will say she was still a more fit mother than a same sex couple.


More fit than the father too.

/let's throw some politics fuel onto this
//because why not?
 
2014-01-19 08:02:44 PM  

kwame: Magruda: kwame: You Internet-argue too much.

Translation: I got nothing.

Turn the computer off and get some therapy man. You're projecting.


Translation: Wait, i still have character assassination.
 
2014-01-19 08:04:10 PM  
There are lots of sane people with religious beliefs.

/in my 5th decade, murder- and exorcism-free
//my flavor of religion doesn't do either
///but we are strict adherents to the 'slashies come in threes' rule
 
2014-01-19 08:07:08 PM  

Magruda: kwame: Magruda: kwame: You Internet-argue too much.

Translation: I got nothing.

Turn the computer off and get some therapy man. You're projecting.

Translation: Wait, i still have character assassination.


If you're going to share with the world that you were abused by your mother, don't get upset if someone suggests therapy. Calling that character assassination makes you look paranoid.
 
2014-01-19 08:08:28 PM  

Biff Spiffy: There are lots of sane people with religious beliefs.

/in my 5th decade, murder- and exorcism-free
//my flavor of religion doesn't do either
///but we are strict adherents to the 'slashies come in threes' rule


I'm a slasher and I must be stopped!

cdn.chud.com
 
2014-01-19 08:08:52 PM  

macross87: kwame: iaazathot: kwame: Magruda: kwame: I feel bad for your experience. I feel worse that it left you so incredibly small-minded.

Small minded does not mean "lends no credence to insanity".

Not sure what you think you're saying. Your mother was insane. If she didn't use religion as a catalyst, it would have been aliens or the government or fluoride in the water. Quit blaming something that was in no way the cause of your treatment.

If it was involved in the scenario, then it was an extant variable in his situation.  Do you have zero idea how reality and causality works?

You Internet-argue too much.

Look at the blow-up doll addict performing e-slap!

/you are forever "that guy" to me kwame


Oh FFS, shut it.
 
2014-01-19 08:17:56 PM  

LavenderWolf: skantea: All comments about religion will reveal your personal bias.  The biatch was just plain crazy.  If has had said the moon made her do it, would we question whether the moon was bad for us?

How many people per year are killed on the Moon's whim?

No, really. Your contention is, it's no different from if she blamed the moon, so, why don't we see more people blaming the moon?


You leave The Moon out of this, you anti-selenites!
 
2014-01-19 08:21:59 PM  
kwame: Magruda: kwame: Magruda: kwame: You Internet-argue too much.

Translation: I got nothing.

Turn the computer off and get some therapy man. You're projecting.

Translation: Wait, i still have character assassination


If you're going to share with the world that you were abused by your mother, don't get upset if someone suggests therapy. Calling that character assassination makes you look paranoid.

You appear to have no understanding of what the words: projecting, character assassination, abuse, and paranoid mean. Come back when you are capable of adult conversation.
 
2014-01-19 08:23:40 PM  

phrawgh: The Lord works in mysterious ways. He needed these children as His new angels in His Kingdom. We cannot question Him nor know His reasons. These children are truly blessed to be at His right hand. Praise the Lord! His will be done!


You could consider joining them  .  .  .
 
2014-01-19 08:26:24 PM  

kwame: don't get upset if someone suggests


Just stop... now you're not only looking like an ass, but a troll... Why do you have to be an asstroll?
 
2014-01-19 08:26:25 PM  

Magruda: kwame: Magruda: kwame: Magruda: kwame: You Internet-argue too much.

Translation: I got nothing.

Turn the computer off and get some therapy man. You're projecting.

Translation: Wait, i still have character assassination

If you're going to share with the world that you were abused by your mother, don't get upset if someone suggests therapy. Calling that character assassination makes you look paranoid.

You appear to have no understanding of what the words: projecting, character assassination, abuse, and paranoid mean. Come back when you are capable of adult conversation.


OK, well you take care of yourself.
 
2014-01-19 08:26:40 PM  

Biff Spiffy: There are lots of sane people with religious beliefs.


Insane people can't tell that they are insane because they are insane.
 
2014-01-19 08:29:29 PM  

BorgiaGinz: Apos: Undiagnosed/untreated mental illness is a scourge in this country.

Religion is a mental illness. Religious people believe in angels, demons, and  miracles. They believe that they can speak in unknown languages, that magical wishes (AKA prayer)  can affect their circumstances, that the smallest coincidences in their everyday lives are the deliberate acts of an invisible entity that governs every aspect of their lives.


Oh shut up.
 
2014-01-19 08:35:01 PM  

jayessell: LavenderWolf: skantea: All comments about religion will reveal your personal bias.  The biatch was just plain crazy.  If has had said the moon made her do it, would we question whether the moon was bad for us?

How many people per year are killed on the Moon's whim?

No, really. Your contention is, it's no different from if she blamed the moon, so, why don't we see more people blaming the moon?

You leave The Moon out of this, you anti-selenites!


Look, just abandon the colonies on Mars and we can establish a peaceful three orbital body solution.

Not to mention, I was defending those people! By Zorblax, I can't stand you Inkthids.
 
2014-01-19 08:36:10 PM  

Standard Deviant: BorgiaGinz: Apos: Undiagnosed/untreated mental illness is a scourge in this country.

Religion is a mental illness. Religious people believe in angels, demons, and  miracles. They believe that they can speak in unknown languages, that magical wishes (AKA prayer)  can affect their circumstances, that the smallest coincidences in their everyday lives are the deliberate acts of an invisible entity that governs every aspect of their lives.

Oh shut up.


In less than 60 years religious belief will be classified as a neurological disorder. Until then we have to suck it up.
 
2014-01-19 08:42:50 PM  

MechaPyx: JohnnyC: MechaPyx: JohnnyC: MechaPyx: Whatever these people were involved in Religionmerely gave them a framework for their actions but they were fundamentally broken in some way before they found an outlet for their crazy bullshiat.

You can stop pretending not to know what gave them their framework for their actions now...

So do you think violent video games turn people into killers? Does rap music turn people into street thugs? Would wearing feminine clothing turn John Wayne into a woman?

No. And that logic is farked up.

If we removed all religious influence from those two people would they suddenly turn into sane, well adjusted individuals? No. They'd still be batshiat insane.

I don't deny that they were crazy people, but I'm also not denying that it was religion that gave them exorcism which they then performed on those kids. You seem to be selective in your observation as to how they got from point A (not killing her kids) to B (killing and maiming her kids).

Which tells me one thing... Your REALLY don't want religion to be responsible in any way for this. Probably because admitting that religion had something to do with this would make you slightly uncomfortable with your own beliefs... but that's just a guess.

So we should get rid of religion because it gives people ideas? What else should we get rid of because it gives people ideas and we can't trust them not to do something stupid and farked up? Trying to remove every single thing that someone, somewhere abused in some farked up manner is vain in the extreme and offensive. But this is why we can't have nice things.

Seriously, it's like trying to take the toys away from all the kids because one kid keeps hitting the other kids with them. You don't take the toys away. You give the bad kid a timeout and try to get him to not do that anymore.


The problem is not that religion gives people ideas that makes it dangerous. It's that religion requires people to suppress their own ability to think critically about the ideas they're given.

I recall after Camping's last failed prediction of the Rapture, a man -- one of many who'd squandered their savings and quit their jobs, believing they were about to be summoned by God -- said that he felt skeptical, but he believed in God and wanted to be a good Christian, so he "pushed the skepticism away".

This is why religion is dangerous, moreso than a video game. It can't coexist with skepticism and reason. People who choose religion over reason are capable of anything.
 
2014-01-19 08:46:20 PM  

Marcintosh: phrawgh: The Lord works in mysterious ways. He needed these children as His new angels in His Kingdom. We cannot question Him nor know His reasons. These children are truly blessed to be at His right hand. Praise the Lord! His will be done!

You could consider joining them  .  .  .


Alas, I am not as lucky as these blessed children. I must toil on this disgusting, sinful, realm of Satan we call Earth until that Blessed day when the Lord calls me Home. I know it's a sin but I envy these sweet angels. I pray for forgiveness.

If only the Lord would have guided my mothers hand so early! I could be there now. No man knows the hour...

Amen!
 
2014-01-19 08:51:21 PM  
"Moreover, if we believe, as I do, that God's grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation. We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven's incomparable joy." -- William Lane Craig

The context of Mr. Craig's quote was as part of a response to claims that God (as depicted in the Old Testament) brought about the slaughter -- both directly and through instruction given to His followers -- of children. I believe it applicable to parents who murder their children under religious pretexts today.
 
2014-01-19 09:01:12 PM  
ReverendJynxed: and

static3.fjcdn.com
 
2014-01-19 09:10:32 PM  
clicked link to find...yep i was right again
 
2014-01-19 09:30:23 PM  
In this country, we throw people like this in jail after a trial.

In religion-free countries, they don't bother with trials, they just make people like this the leaders, where they can "disappear" anyone that questions the wisdom of their enlightened socialist rule that is nothing like a personality cult.

/and in theocracies, they forgive her and execute some random person who won't be missed as the cause of her craziness
 
2014-01-19 09:34:16 PM  

kwame: Magruda: kwame: Magruda: kwame: Magruda: kwame: You Internet-argue too much.

Translation: I got nothing.

Turn the computer off and get some therapy man. You're projecting.

Translation: Wait, i still have character assassination

If you're going to share with the world that you were abused by your mother, don't get upset if someone suggests therapy. Calling that character assassination makes you look paranoid.

You appear to have no understanding of what the words: projecting, character assassination, abuse, and paranoid mean. Come back when you are capable of adult conversation.

OK, well you take care of yourself.


static2.fjcdn.com
 
2014-01-19 09:36:45 PM  

Tatterdemalian: In this country, we throw people like this in jail after a trial.

In religion-free countries, they don't bother with trials, they just make people like this the leaders, where they can "disappear" anyone that questions the wisdom of their enlightened socialist rule that is nothing like a personality cult.

/and in theocracies, they forgive her and execute some random person who won't be missed as the cause of her craziness


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-19 09:42:03 PM  

PsiChick: BorgiaGinz: Apos: Undiagnosed/untreated mental illness is a scourge in this country.

Religion is a mental illness. Religious people believe in angels, demons, and  miracles. They believe that they can speak in unknown languages, that magical wishes (AKA prayer)  can affect their circumstances, that the smallest coincidences in their everyday lives are the deliberate acts of an invisible entity that governs every aspect of their lives.

No, that's a specific subset of Christian fundies. That is not representative of all or even most religious people even in the US, let alone the world. Get your facts right, please.


Oh? Let's see... Polls seem to say:
- 77% of American adults believe in angels
- 63% of Americans believe in demonic possession
- 79% of Americans believe in miracles
- tough to find polls on Glossalia, but this NYT piece says 18% of Americans spoke in tongues in 2012
- 77% of Americans believe in the power of prayer

Damn pesky facts making religion look crazy again. :-/
 
2014-01-19 09:47:17 PM  
Oh, I forgot about the intervening God part of the post... My google-fu is probably weak, but this seems to apply:

Significant numbers of Americans believe God plays a role in the Superbowl.
 
2014-01-19 10:33:53 PM  

Tatterdemalian: In religion-free countries, they don't bother with trials, they just make people like this the leaders, where they can "disappear" anyone that questions the wisdom of their enlightened socialist rule that is nothing like a personality cult.


Examples please.
 
2014-01-19 10:44:36 PM  

mamoru: PsiChick: BorgiaGinz: Apos: Undiagnosed/untreated mental illness is a scourge in this country.

Religion is a mental illness. Religious people believe in angels, demons, and  miracles. They believe that they can speak in unknown languages, that magical wishes (AKA prayer)  can affect their circumstances, that the smallest coincidences in their everyday lives are the deliberate acts of an invisible entity that governs every aspect of their lives.

No, that's a specific subset of Christian fundies. That is not representative of all or even most religious people even in the US, let alone the world. Get your facts right, please.

Oh? Let's see... Polls seem to say:
- 77% of American adults believe in angels
- 63% of Americans believe in demonic possession
- 79% of Americans believe in miracles
- tough to find polls on Glossalia, but this NYT piece says 18% of Americans spoke in tongues in 2012
- 77% of Americans believe in the power of prayer

Damn pesky facts making religion look crazy again. :-/


CBS is not an actual scientific survey. It may reflect CBS viewers, but it does not reflect the actual nation. News polls and surveys are fine for things like beanie babies, but if you're going to claim someone is mentally ill, please use real science for statistics and the actual definition of mental illness to determine the validity of your statement.
 
2014-01-19 11:02:23 PM  

Magruda: wademh: Look dude, I'm a militant agnostic, meaning I don't know and neither does anyone else. I'm also a career scientist who knows something about evidence and one thing I know is that it is not so simple. Many things I _know_, I know for reasons that are outside of what qualifies as hard empirical evidence, or originally failed to meet such a standard. But I've been alive a long time, long enough to have things I firmly felt were truth despite the lack of hard empirical evidence reveal themselves to be true later on.

This statement is contradictory. Or this is some satirical attempt to explain "truthiness".


There's no contradiction. You have not identified a contradiction.
There are things I have firmly believed to be true from ~evidence~ that fails to meet the standards of objective evidence. Feelings or rather extreme extrapolations that later on have been confirmed by hard objective evidence. Note the tense: believed. And subsequently confirmed. Objectively, this confirms the accuracy of my perceptions that occurred prior to objective evidence and, objectively denies the requirement for hard objective evidence to reveal truth. And I'm not talking about once or twice but on many things. The whole basis for supporting objective scientific criteria is the long track record of success. So with success as the ultimate criteria, I have personally established my own reliability. Thus, to be consistent, one has to allow that others may have their own criteria that may fail to meet independently objective standards but have nevertheless met the standard of consistent reliability for that individual. Now I think I'm pretty conservative in my extrapolations but I know none-the-less that the beliefs I refer to were outside of scientificly objective
support when I developed them. How conservative I am versus others is something I don't feel I can convert to a reliable answer and so I must allow that others may indeed be capable of deciding what to believe in, even in the case of the absence of objective evidence.

And that was the point, to counter the claim that it is irrational to believe in things without objective support. Instead, it is entirely rational to trust ones own feelings when one has personally validated the reliability of ones feelings.
 
2014-01-19 11:06:55 PM  

wademh: And that was the point, to counter the claim that it is irrational to believe in things without objective support. Instead, it is entirely rational to trust ones own feelings when one has personally validated the reliability of ones feelings.


You are free to believe however you chose. Please keep in mind however that this in no way resembles any type of scientific method and means nothing to anyone but you.
 
2014-01-19 11:08:33 PM  

wademh: Magruda: wademh: Look dude, I'm a militant agnostic, meaning I don't know and neither does anyone else. I'm also a career scientist who knows something about evidence and one thing I know is that it is not so simple. Many things I _know_, I know for reasons that are outside of what qualifies as hard empirical evidence, or originally failed to meet such a standard. But I've been alive a long time, long enough to have things I firmly felt were truth despite the lack of hard empirical evidence reveal themselves to be true later on.

This statement is contradictory. Or this is some satirical attempt to explain "truthiness".

There's no contradiction. You have not identified a contradiction.
There are things I have firmly believed to be true from ~evidence~ that fails to meet the standards of objective evidence. Feelings or rather extreme extrapolations that later on have been confirmed by hard objective evidence. Note the tense: believed. And subsequently confirmed. Objectively, this confirms the accuracy of my perceptions that occurred prior to objective evidence and, objectively denies the requirement for hard objective evidence to reveal truth. And I'm not talking about once or twice but on many things. The whole basis for supporting objective scientific criteria is the long track record of success. So with success as the ultimate criteria, I have personally established my own reliability. Thus, to be consistent, one has to allow that others may have their own criteria that may fail to meet independently objective standards but have nevertheless met the standard of consistent reliability for that individual. Now I think I'm pretty conservative in my extrapolations but I know none-the-less that the beliefs I refer to were outside of scientificly objective
support when I developed them. How conservative I am versus others is something I don't feel I can convert to a reliable answer and so I must allow that others may indeed be capable of deciding what to believe in, ev ...


Which begs the question, do athiests trust their own instincts?  Or are even those just unprovable beliefs?
 
2014-01-19 11:11:47 PM  

TV's Vinnie: So yeah, F*CK religion for empowering the crazies.


That's Si, you moran, not Phil.
 
2014-01-19 11:17:15 PM  

Magruda: wademh: And that was the point, to counter the claim that it is irrational to believe in things without objective support. Instead, it is entirely rational to trust ones own feelings when one has personally validated the reliability of ones feelings.

You are free to believe however you chose. Please keep in mind however that this in no way resembles any type of scientific method and means nothing to anyone but you.


And what is holy or sacred about the scientific method? Nothing. The only reason to hold the scientific method up as a standard of excellence is its record of success. By the self-same criteria, if an individual experiences a record of success with their own us of Taro cards, they have an identical reason to believe their method. It would indeed be comforting to have some other external basis, like say sacred scripture of some sort, that established reliability for us, but in my experience we don't have any such thing. So empirically, we trust that which proves trustworthy to us. And that is the exact reason for trusting science. It is not a reason to blanketly distrust anything that is not science.
 
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