Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Philly.com)   New Jersey has been colluding with insurance companies to import coyotes in order to reduce the deer population. What a wily idea   (philly.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, New Jersey, Pennsylvania Game Commission, deer population, David Swarter, Leo Deiter, Perry County, conspiracy, Western Pennsylvania  
•       •       •

2839 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2014 at 2:20 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



116 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-19 02:22:08 PM  
He's angry at New Jersey, but he'll never show it.

www.boomeranghq.net
 
v15
2014-01-19 02:23:12 PM  
"So if you have 45 minutes I'd like to tell you about our lord Jesus Christ."

/or something like that
 
2014-01-19 02:24:21 PM  
ACME?
 
2014-01-19 02:24:33 PM  
Well, Christie tried to reduce the deer population by closing two lanes on the George Washington Bridge to trap the commuting deers in congestion, but that didn't work.
 
2014-01-19 02:24:56 PM  
If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.
 
2014-01-19 02:25:32 PM  
As an investor in a company that makes rocket skates, I approve.
 
2014-01-19 02:25:50 PM  
Predator population increases as prey population increases?  Who'd have thunk it?
 
2014-01-19 02:26:38 PM  
Next they'll be importing road runners to control the coyote population.
 
2014-01-19 02:27:47 PM  

Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.


You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com
 
2014-01-19 02:28:51 PM  
I find it odd that there's actually someone who exports coyotes for a living.
 
2014-01-19 02:30:39 PM  

abhorrent1: I find it odd that there's actually someone who exports coyotes for a living.


I hear you can order one from the Acme Catalog.
 
2014-01-19 02:31:04 PM  

Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.


Why not just expand hunting season?
 
2014-01-19 02:31:49 PM  

At last a brewing scandal which Governor Chris Christie had nothing to do with.

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com


Mmmmm.  Me loves Subway Venison Delite Subs

Or, didn't he?
 
2014-01-19 02:32:04 PM  

Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]


I think it'd be easier for the cougar to survive than a pack of wolves. But either way, coyotes are not what you want for controlling deer. They take fawn and occasionally adult deer, but most of their food is smaller than they are, though that might change depending on environment/opportunity. However deer are probably not going to be more plentiful than rabbit/raccoon/rodents.
 
2014-01-19 02:32:11 PM  
Also, Road Runner / Wile E Coyote trifecta in play?
 
2014-01-19 02:33:35 PM  
We used to have coyotes up in north jersey at least but they gradually disappeared with commercial and residential development.
 
2014-01-19 02:34:05 PM  
So why doesn't Jersey open coyote hunting to a year round season? Looking at their regulations, your only allowed to hunt them for about two months in the fall and three months in the spring. Here in WA, it's open season on them all year long, all you need is a small game license.
 
2014-01-19 02:35:28 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Also, Road Runner / Wile E Coyote trifecta in play?


Maybe they could just ship coyotes from Oregon to NJ and solve 2 problems?
 
2014-01-19 02:35:39 PM  
That the insurance companies and the government have not copped to coyote trafficking hasn't swayed his belief.

"I don't expect them to admit it," he said. "Why would they? There's no smoking gun. It's just a philosophy. But when enough people believe in the philosophy, it becomes more than that."


TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
 
2014-01-19 02:35:42 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

Why not just expand hunting season?


The problem areas with over population is in the burbs where most property owners are probably not gonna allow hunting in thier back yard.
 
2014-01-19 02:35:53 PM  
There's mountain lions too but not very many it seems
 
2014-01-19 02:36:36 PM  

Silentbob768768: We used to have coyotes up in north jersey at least but they gradually disappeared with commercial and residential development.


That actually surprises me. We have a ton of them in downtown Chicago. Heck I used to see a small pack/couple roll around Lincoln Park late at night when I lived over there. They loved getting themselves some of the thousands of rabbits per square yard there during the spring.
 
2014-01-19 02:37:46 PM  

Oldiron_79: ArcadianRefugee: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

Why not just expand hunting season?

The problem areas with over population is in the burbs where most property owners are probably not gonna allow hunting in thier back yard.


So import coyotes, and the property owners will still leave their garbage unsecured and dog food out in the back yard.  What could go wrong?
 
2014-01-19 02:38:38 PM  
It's not like coyotes don't cause damage to cars when being hit by one
 
2014-01-19 02:39:23 PM  
There's more to it than Fark is telling you. These are Three Mile Island coyote descendants. The are radioactive and their scat is poisonous. If you go deep enough into the Warden Tract, you can see them faintly glowing in the dark. I don't knowwhy they imported them, but it's not for any good reason. I'm afraid to go hunting these days.
 
2014-01-19 02:40:58 PM  

redmid17: Silentbob768768: We used to have coyotes up in north jersey at least but they gradually disappeared with commercial and residential development.

That actually surprises me. We have a ton of them in downtown Chicago. Heck I used to see a small pack/couple roll around Lincoln Park late at night when I lived over there. They loved getting themselves some of the thousands of rabbits per square yard there during the spring.


I hear that Allstate imported them to control the wild buffalo downtown
 
2014-01-19 02:41:20 PM  

redmid17: Silentbob768768: We used to have coyotes up in north jersey at least but they gradually disappeared with commercial and residential development.

That actually surprises me. We have a ton of them in downtown Chicago. Heck I used to see a small pack/couple roll around Lincoln Park late at night when I lived over there. They loved getting themselves some of the thousands of rabbits per square yard there during the spring.


Growing up and watching the area develop in the last twenty years I've noticed a decline in a lot of wildlife. Used to see tons of fox n coyote. bears too...they're still around and pretty frequent but def less than prior
 
2014-01-19 02:41:55 PM  
Is there anything we can import from Australia to take care of this?
 
2014-01-19 02:42:58 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: It's not like coyotes don't cause damage to cars when being hit by one


Coyotes aren't farking stupid like deer and will avoid it unless they are sick or something.

Deer actually run into cars.  Being a good driver doesn't always help.
 
2014-01-19 02:43:38 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Also, Road Runner / Wile E Coyote trifecta in play?


Yeah, exactly.
 
2014-01-19 02:44:51 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: redmid17: Silentbob768768: We used to have coyotes up in north jersey at least but they gradually disappeared with commercial and residential development.

That actually surprises me. We have a ton of them in downtown Chicago. Heck I used to see a small pack/couple roll around Lincoln Park late at night when I lived over there. They loved getting themselves some of the thousands of rabbits per square yard there during the spring.

I hear that Allstate imported them to control the wild buffalo downtown


Pretty sure the wild buffalo on Lincoln closed.
 
2014-01-19 02:45:19 PM  
So, when does Christie's plan involve bringing in apes, which will freeze to death when Winter comes?
 
2014-01-19 02:45:43 PM  

bugmn99: Is there anything we can import from Australia to take care of this?


Yes, but we'd have to go offworld to import something to take care of that scourge from Australia
 
2014-01-19 02:47:09 PM  
Super genius.
 
2014-01-19 02:47:13 PM  

Silentbob768768: There's mountain lions too but not very many it seems


NJ historically had cougars, grizzly bears, wolves, even jaguars I've heard. They were wiped out by man. The northeast was mostly forest once, and probably had every large predator present in North America.

With hunting less popular than ever it makes sense that anything that can adapt to suburban /urban areas will come back, and coyotes do quite well in other urban parts of the country. Personally, their howls would be a welcome sound.
 
2014-01-19 02:49:17 PM  
This ALWAYS works out well.
 
2014-01-19 02:52:12 PM  
Auto insurers hate NJ enough already, I highly doubt a slight up tick in comp claims was enough to push them to import a predator into the ecosystem.
 
2014-01-19 02:53:56 PM  
It never occurs to them that they can just eat the problem.
 
2014-01-19 02:54:11 PM  
Cougars tend to go after young bucks, ignoring the bitter old ones.
 
2014-01-19 02:54:55 PM  

bugmn99: Is there anything we can import from Australia to take care of this?


Tasmanian devils.  They're easily rebrandable for local folklore.
 
2014-01-19 02:57:35 PM  

Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]


Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.
 
2014-01-19 02:57:54 PM  

Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.


They'll eat the fawns which is a start
 
2014-01-19 03:00:11 PM  
So the crackpot theory by the 25-year-old hunter that the article is based on doesn't hold water?
 
2014-01-19 03:02:09 PM  

Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.


Not true.

Cougars care very much about drinking wine and banging guys who are in their twenties.

I've known a few New Jersey cougars and they can be an especially aggressive example of the breed.

/Although their accent during sex can be a bit off putting
 
2014-01-19 03:02:47 PM  

big pig peaches: Silentbob768768: There's mountain lions too but not very many it seems

NJ historically had cougars, grizzly bears, wolves, even jaguars I've heard. They were wiped out by man. The northeast was mostly forest once, and probably had every large predator present in North America.

With hunting less popular than ever it makes sense that anything that can adapt to suburban /urban areas will come back, and coyotes do quite well in other urban parts of the country. Personally, their howls would be a welcome sound.


Hunting has actually seen a resurgence over the last few years. Total number of hunting licenses has jumped over a million since 2010, to around 15 million. This is a good thing. Most of the hunting money goes to wildlife management/conservation program. Coyotes and black bears in NJ specifically are already spread out to a lot of urban areas. Also the northeast is still mostly forest. It's around 80% forested land.
 
2014-01-19 03:04:30 PM  
Jesus H. Christ, there are some stupid people in New Jersey. Coyotes were "imported" by a conspiracy between the state and insurance companies? Is there some kind of impenetrable wall to prevent them simply trotting across state lines to gorge on bambi?
 
2014-01-19 03:05:13 PM  
Coyotes?  Are they trying to control miniature deer?

Deer will take out a dog, and coyotes aren't that big.
 
2014-01-19 03:05:51 PM  

Stone Meadow: Jesus H. Christ, there are some stupid people in New Jersey. Coyotes were "imported" by a conspiracy between the state and insurance companies? Is there some kind of impenetrable wall to prevent them simply trotting across state lines to gorge on bambi?


No opposable thumbs.  They can't sign the permits.
 
2014-01-19 03:08:14 PM  

rohar: ArcadianRefugee: Also, Road Runner / Wile E Coyote trifecta in play?

Maybe they could just ship coyotes from Oregon to NJ and solve 2 problems?


My thoughts exactly.
 
2014-01-19 03:12:27 PM  

simplicimus: Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]

Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.


Lots of livestock up here though
 
2014-01-19 03:13:23 PM  

StrikitRich: Coyotes?  Are they trying to control miniature deer?

Deer will take out a dog, and coyotes aren't that big.


Link claiming coyotes kill up to 50% of fawns: http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=2749&cid=158

Most eastern states have experienced an explosion in deer populations in recent decades, which would certainly attract coyotes.
 
2014-01-19 03:14:09 PM  

Silentbob768768: simplicimus: Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]

Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.

Lots of livestock up here though


There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.
 
2014-01-19 03:22:10 PM  

simplicimus: Silentbob768768: simplicimus: Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]

Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.

Lots of livestock up here though

There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.


Yup, they look like this:

media.web.britannica.com

very effective against coyotes, wolves and mountain lions.
 
2014-01-19 03:31:08 PM  

rohar: simplicimus: There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.

Yup, they look like this:

[media.web.britannica.com image 550x427]

very effective against coyotes, wolves and mountain lions.


I have llamas which do a good job against coyotes (no sheep losses since getting them), but my books and the web say they cannot fight off cougars. Can't say about wolf packs, but since numerous sources caution against feral dog packs, I'd say wolves are problematical, too.
 
2014-01-19 03:31:51 PM  
I need glasses.

I read that as bringing in coyotes to reduce the derper population.
 
2014-01-19 03:32:57 PM  
Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COYOTE
 
2014-01-19 03:34:01 PM  

rohar: simplicimus: Silentbob768768: simplicimus: Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]

Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.

Lots of livestock up here though

There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.

Yup, they look like this:

very effective against coyotes, wolves and mountain lions.


Donkeys are also quite effective at defending herds especially from mountain lions.
 
2014-01-19 03:34:34 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COYOTE


Okay...I LOL'd. :)
 
2014-01-19 03:35:09 PM  

Stone Meadow: my books and the web say they cannot fight off cougars.


Nothing can fight off cougars.  They are unstoppable, relentless killing machines and will not stop until you are coug'd.

i834.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-19 03:36:36 PM  

simplicimus: Silentbob768768: simplicimus: Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]

Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.

Lots of livestock up here though

There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.


I got to meet a Kangal at the Indianapolis Zoo once, during a lecture on how they help with the cheetah conservation effort.  Pretty cool dogs.
 
2014-01-19 03:36:48 PM  

Oldiron_79: rohar: simplicimus: Silentbob768768: simplicimus: Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]

Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.

Lots of livestock up here though

There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.

Yup, they look like this:

very effective against coyotes, wolves and mountain lions.

Donkeys are also quite effective at defending herds especially from mountain lions.


Elephants work too.
 
2014-01-19 03:40:16 PM  
Even better let a few of these loose in the area:
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-19 03:41:21 PM  

StrikitRich: Coyotes?  Are they trying to control miniature deer?

Deer will take out a dog, and coyotes aren't that big.


As far as I know, coyotes can hunt as a pack, much like wolves, although it's not as common for them. Deer may be able to take out one or two, but three or four? I'm betting on the pack. I've mostly just seen this with wolves (documentaries) but they're fairly similar animals.

Also, FTFA:

Gambardello said he believes the importing is going on still. In October, local hunter Barry Zeldin, 74, went missing. A search of the Pine Barrens that Gambardello took part in yielded nothing.

"He could have been attacked by coyotes," Gambardello said.

SUUUURE. He couldn't possibly have injured himself or gotten lost (or both), or had a heart attack... It must have been those damn coyotes!

/It was the Jersey Devil
 
2014-01-19 03:46:54 PM  

Stone Meadow: rohar: simplicimus: There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.

Yup, they look like this:

[media.web.britannica.com image 550x427]

very effective against coyotes, wolves and mountain lions.

I have llamas which do a good job against coyotes (no sheep losses since getting them), but my books and the web say they cannot fight off cougars. Can't say about wolf packs, but since numerous sources caution against feral dog packs, I'd say wolves are problematical, too.


I've seen the aftermath of 2 mountain lion/llama interactions in the past 5 years near where I live (not mine).  No question, the llamas were a bit roughed up.  The mountain lions were dead.

Pretty sure the dairy goats didn't kill them, so my bet's on the llamas.

/yrmv
 
2014-01-19 03:48:14 PM  

ladyfortuna: StrikitRich: Coyotes?  Are they trying to control miniature deer?

Deer will take out a dog, and coyotes aren't that big.

As far as I know, coyotes can hunt as a pack, much like wolves, although it's not as common for them. Deer may be able to take out one or two, but three or four? I'm betting on the pack. I've mostly just seen this with wolves (documentaries) but they're fairly similar animals.

Also, FTFA:

Gambardello said he believes the importing is going on still. In October, local hunter Barry Zeldin, 74, went missing. A search of the Pine Barrens that Gambardello took part in yielded nothing.

"He could have been attacked by coyotes," Gambardello said.

SUUUURE. He couldn't possibly have injured himself or gotten lost (or both), or had a heart attack... It must have been those damn coyotes!

/It was the Jersey Devil


More likely he died of something and was scavenged by some form of canid. Canids prefer scavenging over hunting. Fewer calories expended to get calories.
 
2014-01-19 03:52:39 PM  

ladyfortuna: StrikitRich: Coyotes?  Are they trying to control miniature deer?

Deer will take out a dog, and coyotes aren't that big.

As far as I know, coyotes can hunt as a pack, much like wolves, although it's not as common for them. Deer may be able to take out one or two, but three or four? I'm betting on the pack. I've mostly just seen this with wolves (documentaries) but they're fairly similar animals.

Also, FTFA:

Gambardello said he believes the importing is going on still. In October, local hunter Barry Zeldin, 74, went missing. A search of the Pine Barrens that Gambardello took part in yielded nothing.

"He could have been attacked by coyotes," Gambardello said.

SUUUURE. He couldn't possibly have injured himself or gotten lost (or both), or had a heart attack... It must have been those damn coyotes!

/It was the Jersey Devil


Or Pauly Walnuts and Christafuh Moltisanti
 
2014-01-19 03:52:51 PM  
As someone who has seen this done before, also say goodbye to animals such as rabbits, free roaming cats, and dogs that run free on farms.  Also, say goodbye to a few cattle once the coyotes start reproducing and live in larger packs.  Next up...coyote season.
 
2014-01-19 03:55:31 PM  

rohar: I've seen the aftermath of 2 mountain lion/llama interactions in the past 5 years near where I live (not mine).  No question, the llamas were a bit roughed up.  The mountain lions were dead.

Pretty sure the dairy goats didn't kill them, so my bet's on the llamas.

/yrmv


I read it on the web, therefore it can't be wrong and your argument is a birdsnest... ;^)

J/k...that's actually pretty cool, as we have mountain lions here and I have had some concerns about Boots and Silver. That said, my copy of Birutta is pretty definitive on the topic, and my llamas are getting on in years, so I wouldn't want to put it to the test.
 
2014-01-19 03:57:43 PM  

Slappajo: As someone who has seen this done before, also say goodbye to animals such as rabbits, free roaming cats, and dogs that run free on farms.  Also, say goodbye to a few cattle once the coyotes start reproducing and live in larger packs.  Next up...coyote season.


In California "coyote season" starts at 12:01AM on January first and goes to midnight on 21 December. No tag. No bag limit.
 
2014-01-19 03:58:51 PM  

Stone Meadow: In California "coyote season" starts at 12:01AM on January first and goes to midnight on 231 December.


FTFM
 
2014-01-19 04:01:07 PM  

Stone Meadow: Slappajo: As someone who has seen this done before, also say goodbye to animals such as rabbits, free roaming cats, and dogs that run free on farms.  Also, say goodbye to a few cattle once the coyotes start reproducing and live in larger packs.  Next up...coyote season.

In California "coyote season" starts at 12:01AM on January first and goes to midnight on 21 December. No tag. No bag limit.


Was there ever a "reintroduction" effort?  The experience I was talking about was that they were all but absent in the area but it was decided to reintroduce them and restrictions were put on killing them.  Now it's pretty much shoot 'em if you see 'em.
 
2014-01-19 04:04:53 PM  

Brick-House: Next they'll be importing road runners to control the coyote population.


They'd be too slow, at least for Time Warner Cable customers.
 
2014-01-19 04:05:07 PM  

Slappajo: Stone Meadow: In California "coyote season" starts at 12:01AM on January first and goes to midnight on 21 December. No tag. No bag limit.

Was there ever a "reintroduction" effort?  The experience I was talking about was that they were all but absent in the area but it was decided to reintroduce them and restrictions were put on killing them.  Now it's pretty much shoot 'em if you see 'em.


No, but now you have me curious...was there a formal coyote reintroduction effort in Iowa?
 
2014-01-19 04:06:07 PM  
Kentucky...I lived there for 35 years.
 
2014-01-19 04:06:08 PM  
There are at least a few, and often more anti-predator hate propagandist dimbulbs in all the lower 48 states who are under the impression every state has a covert predator importation team with a secret budget and exceptions from ordinary wildlife and/or endangered species interstate transfer rules, dedicated to creating local populations of predators of kinds exotic to the local varieties, larger, and with the intention of them causing damage to livestock and danger to humans.

These people come in the same category as the Rainbows too Close to the Ground lady.  Unfortunately, they, and some politicians who listen to them, seem to think that their fantasies should be used to determine the local hunting regulations instead of actual scientists.
 
2014-01-19 04:06:32 PM  

Stone Meadow: rohar: I've seen the aftermath of 2 mountain lion/llama interactions in the past 5 years near where I live (not mine).  No question, the llamas were a bit roughed up.  The mountain lions were dead.

Pretty sure the dairy goats didn't kill them, so my bet's on the llamas.

/yrmv

I read it on the web, therefore it can't be wrong and your argument is a birdsnest... ;^)

J/k...that's actually pretty cool, as we have mountain lions here and I have had some concerns about Boots and Silver. That said, my copy of Birutta is pretty definitive on the topic, and my llamas are getting on in years, so I wouldn't want to put it to the test.


Not a subject I even want to think about, and I have no idea the success ratio, the plural of anecdote is not data.

We've got a couple of working dogs that sleep out with the livestock, but they're not much good for anything but noise.  That damned Llama though, has no sense of survival.  No matter how big a perceived threat is, she heads right for it.  Never thought she'd charge me in the skid steer.

Still, with the dogs and the llama, I've had to wake up in the middle of the night and plink a few coyotes in the past few years during kidding season.
 
2014-01-19 04:08:46 PM  

rohar: Stone Meadow: rohar: I've seen the aftermath of 2 mountain lion/llama interactions in the past 5 years near where I live (not mine).  No question, the llamas were a bit roughed up.  The mountain lions were dead.

Pretty sure the dairy goats didn't kill them, so my bet's on the llamas.

/yrmv

I read it on the web, therefore it can't be wrong and your argument is a birdsnest... ;^)

J/k...that's actually pretty cool, as we have mountain lions here and I have had some concerns about Boots and Silver. That said, my copy of Birutta is pretty definitive on the topic, and my llamas are getting on in years, so I wouldn't want to put it to the test.

Not a subject I even want to think about, and I have no idea the success ratio, the plural of anecdote is not data.

We've got a couple of working dogs that sleep out with the livestock, but they're not much good for anything but noise.  That damned Llama though, has no sense of survival.  No matter how big a perceived threat is, she heads right for it.  Never thought she'd charge me in the skid steer.

Still, with the dogs and the llama, I've had to wake up in the middle of the night and plink a few coyotes in the past few years during kidding season.


Blam! Lol JK!
 
2014-01-19 04:10:30 PM  

Stone Meadow: Slappajo: Stone Meadow: In California "coyote season" starts at 12:01AM on January first and goes to midnight on 21 December. No tag. No bag limit.

Was there ever a "reintroduction" effort?  The experience I was talking about was that they were all but absent in the area but it was decided to reintroduce them and restrictions were put on killing them.  Now it's pretty much shoot 'em if you see 'em.

No, but now you have me curious...was there a formal coyote reintroduction effort in Iowa?


If I remember correctly, there wasn't really one. With the switch of a lot of forest to agricultural use, decline in larger predators, and increase in food supply they pretty just migrated from the West. Apparently they were a lot less common in the eastern part of the US before the 1900s.
 
2014-01-19 04:11:18 PM  

redmid17: Stone Meadow: Slappajo: Stone Meadow: In California "coyote season" starts at 12:01AM on January first and goes to midnight on 21 December. No tag. No bag limit.

Was there ever a "reintroduction" effort?  The experience I was talking about was that they were all but absent in the area but it was decided to reintroduce them and restrictions were put on killing them.  Now it's pretty much shoot 'em if you see 'em.

No, but now you have me curious...was there a formal coyote reintroduction effort in Iowa?

If I remember correctly, there wasn't really one. With the switch of a lot of forest to agricultural use, decline in larger predators, and increase in food supply they pretty just migrated from the West. Apparently they were a lot less common in the eastern part of the US before the 1900s.


Old Times article on it:  http://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/03/science/coyotes-arrive-in-the-north e ast-after-an-evolutionary-trek-across-the.html
 
2014-01-19 04:13:19 PM  

SwiftFox: There are at least a few, and often more anti-predator hate propagandist dimbulbs in all the lower 48 states who are under the impression every state has a covert predator importation team with a secret budget and exceptions from ordinary wildlife and/or endangered species interstate transfer rules, dedicated to creating local populations of predators of kinds exotic to the local varieties, larger, and with the intention of them causing damage to livestock and danger to humans.

These people come in the same category as the Rainbows too Close to the Ground lady.  Unfortunately, they, and some politicians who listen to them, seem to think that their fantasies should be used to determine the local hunting regulations instead of actual scientists.


You would be partly correct.  However, you fail to mention that many people in rural areas also use hunting small game as a way to feed their families.  I'm sure those scientists and politicians are experienced in those areas as well and understand the impact of it.
 
2014-01-19 04:18:27 PM  

redmid17: redmid17: Stone Meadow: Slappajo: Stone Meadow: In California "coyote season" starts at 12:01AM on January first and goes to midnight on 21 December. No tag. No bag limit.

Was there ever a "reintroduction" effort?  The experience I was talking about was that they were all but absent in the area but it was decided to reintroduce them and restrictions were put on killing them.  Now it's pretty much shoot 'em if you see 'em.

No, but now you have me curious...was there a formal coyote reintroduction effort in Iowa?

If I remember correctly, there wasn't really one. With the switch of a lot of forest to agricultural use, decline in larger predators, and increase in food supply they pretty just migrated from the West. Apparently they were a lot less common in the eastern part of the US before the 1900s.

Old Times article on it:  http://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/03/science/coyotes-arrive-in-the-north e ast-after-an-evolutionary-trek-across-the.html


Looks like you might be correct.   http://www.richmondregister.com/lifestylescommunity/x1475588683/Coyot e s-in-our-midst
 
2014-01-19 04:19:50 PM  

simplicimus: Silentbob768768: simplicimus: Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]

Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.

Lots of livestock up here though

There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.


 upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-19 04:23:28 PM  

big pig peaches: Silentbob768768: There's mountain lions too but not very many it seems

NJ historically had cougars, grizzly bears, wolves, even jaguars I've heard. They were wiped out by man. The northeast was mostly forest once, and probably had every large predator present in North America.

With hunting less popular than ever it makes sense that anything that can adapt to suburban /urban areas will come back, and coyotes do quite well in other urban parts of the country. Personally, their howls would be a welcome sound.


I dont know that jags where anywhere near NJ unles you are talking like pre Native American times, but yeah cougars, gray wolves, and brown bears where once native to almost the entire continent before Europeans hunted them to extinction in the eastern US. There are still black bears and that about it.
 
2014-01-19 04:23:36 PM  

rohar: ArcadianRefugee: Also, Road Runner / Wile E Coyote trifecta in play?

Maybe they could just ship coyotes from Oregon to NJ and solve 2 problems?



Came here to say this.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/01/18/Judge-allows-coyote-hunt-t o- go-forward-in-Oregon/UPI-47961390101548/
 
2014-01-19 04:33:48 PM  
New Jersey coyotes: man's best friend's cousin who knows somebody who can take care of this thing for you.
 
2014-01-19 04:37:17 PM  

redmid17: redmid17: Stone Meadow: Slappajo: Stone Meadow: In California "coyote season" starts at 12:01AM on January first and goes to midnight on 21 December. No tag. No bag limit.

Was there ever a "reintroduction" effort?  The experience I was talking about was that they were all but absent in the area but it was decided to reintroduce them and restrictions were put on killing them.  Now it's pretty much shoot 'em if you see 'em.

No, but now you have me curious...was there a formal coyote reintroduction effort in Iowa?

If I remember correctly, there wasn't really one. With the switch of a lot of forest to agricultural use, decline in larger predators, and increase in food supply they pretty just migrated from the West. Apparently they were a lot less common in the eastern part of the US before the 1900s.

Old Times article on it:  http://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/03/science/coyotes-arrive-in-the-north e ast-after-an-evolutionary-trek-across-the.html


So...long story short, coyotes had naturally migrated back into every eastern state by 30 years ago, but this yokel concludes it was collusion between the NJ State Gov't and insurance companies. Double-facepalm^∞... ;^)

/great article, btw...thanks!
 
2014-01-19 04:47:23 PM  

Slappajo: SwiftFox: There are at least a few, and often more anti-predator hate propagandist dimbulbs in all the lower 48 states who are under the impression every state has a covert predator importation team with a secret budget and exceptions from ordinary wildlife and/or endangered species interstate transfer rules, dedicated to creating local populations of predators of kinds exotic to the local varieties, larger, and with the intention of them causing damage to livestock and danger to humans.

These people come in the same category as the Rainbows too Close to the Ground lady.  Unfortunately, they, and some politicians who listen to them, seem to think that their fantasies should be used to determine the local hunting regulations instead of actual scientists.

You would be partly correct.  However, you fail to mention that many people in rural areas also use hunting small game as a way to feed their families.  I'm sure those scientists and politicians are experienced in those areas as well and understand the impact of it.


Yup, met a few of the kind of those who want to blame off the cyclical, inevitable, pretty much unaffected by predators boom-dieoff cycle of bunnies and so on on on predators too. They've tended to be the some folk'll never eat a skunk, but then again some folk'll type.
 
2014-01-19 04:51:28 PM  

SwiftFox: Slappajo: SwiftFox: There are at least a few, and often more anti-predator hate propagandist dimbulbs in all the lower 48 states who are under the impression every state has a covert predator importation team with a secret budget and exceptions from ordinary wildlife and/or endangered species interstate transfer rules, dedicated to creating local populations of predators of kinds exotic to the local varieties, larger, and with the intention of them causing damage to livestock and danger to humans.

These people come in the same category as the Rainbows too Close to the Ground lady.  Unfortunately, they, and some politicians who listen to them, seem to think that their fantasies should be used to determine the local hunting regulations instead of actual scientists.

You would be partly correct.  However, you fail to mention that many people in rural areas also use hunting small game as a way to feed their families.  I'm sure those scientists and politicians are experienced in those areas as well and understand the impact of it.

Yup, met a few of the kind of those who want to blame off the cyclical, inevitable, pretty much unaffected by predators boom-dieoff cycle of bunnies and so on on on predators too. They've tended to be the some folk'll never eat a skunk, but then again some folk'll type.


What...I've eaten skunk.  You haven't?
 
2014-01-19 05:01:19 PM  
There are about nine deer living in the brush half a mile from my house, and I am scared shirtless some SOB with a high powered rifle will try to take them out---in a residential area, where you can figure Murphy's Law will getcha every time.
 
2014-01-19 05:02:51 PM  

olddinosaur: There are about nine deer living in the brush half a mile from my house, and I am scared shirtless some SOB with a high powered rifle will try to take them out---in a residential area, where you can figure Murphy's Law will getcha every time.


It's more likely the deer will take you out.
 
2014-01-19 05:03:24 PM  
Sounds likethe morans who think Nebraska brought mountain lions in for deer.  Let's see, three states with proven populations have them.  No wonder Oobama was elected.  Pubic edumacation.
 
2014-01-19 05:09:05 PM  
Coyotes are killing and eating those nasty, annoying little yappy dogs?

I'm okay with this.
 
2014-01-19 05:17:03 PM  
Reading the article and the  comments on this article, I am literally astounded at the ignorance of some people who do not understand two things:

1--the population of predators will increase proportionally to the population of prey

2--the necessity of hunting to keep the population of prey (in this case, deer) from overwhelming rural areas.

As someone who has lived in rural areas most of my life, let me spell this out for those of you who don't understand the concept of hunting as it pertains to keeping a balance: if you do not hunt Bambi, Bambi will take the fark over because in some areas, there are not enough wolves and coyotes to prevent Bambi from breeding like Thumper. Bambi can do significant damage to crops in rural/farmland areas because Bambi is a farking vegetarian. We are not strict herbivores like Bambi, we are omnivores (or, if you prefer, om nom nom-ivores). Nature designed us this way for balance--so that in areas where Bambi doesn't have predators like the big bad wolf and Wile Coyote, he has a natural predator called Man. Man preys on Bambi so that plants and crops continue to grow so the remaining Bambis and Thumpers and men have food besides Bambi and Thumper to eat. And spaying/neutering Bambi isn't gonna cut it because then all those spayed/neutered Bambis are still gonna eat all the food and grain.

It's second-grade science. Emotion has nothing to farking do with it, nor does "ZOMG, GUN NUTS!" Get a farking grip.

*Disclaimer: nothing in the above is necessarily directed at any Farker. But holy shiat, those comments on the article just about gave me an aneurysm. So much stupid, all in one place.
 
2014-01-19 05:22:37 PM  

AngryDragon: ACME?


Follow the money. Someone has ties to an ACME supplier. Probably a wascally wabbit.
 
2014-01-19 05:30:18 PM  

Fano: AngryDragon: ACME?

Follow the money. Someone has ties to an ACME supplier. Probably a wascally wabbit.


Acme stuff don't work my money is on a despicable duck
 
2014-01-19 05:33:36 PM  

Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]


We also would have accepted "bears in far cry 3", "deathclaws in new vegas", or "walking around skyrim"..
 
2014-01-19 05:55:12 PM  
Neither the mountain lions nor the coyotes we've had around here have done jack to the deer population, the problem is the mountain lions are too sparse and too afraid to come into populated areas and the coyotes are too small to take down adult deer and would rather take yippy dogs out of peoples back yards. If they really want to drop the population allow 10 doe tags per hunter and allow for bow hunting in rural residential area where the deer are like overgrown rats.
 
2014-01-19 06:12:04 PM  
We use wolves, cougars and coyotes out here in Oregonland to keep the deer populations culled. The cattle ranchers don't like the wolves very much.
 
2014-01-19 06:22:37 PM  

Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]


I have to disagree.  Some of us REALLY want cougars.

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2014-01-19 06:30:36 PM  
Aigoo: ........ And spaying/neutering Bambi isn't gonna cut it because then all those spayed/neutered Bambis are still gonna eat all the food and grain.

Plus spay/neuter on deer is a fools errand. Wildlife biologists like me have found deer don't do well being captured and operated on. You can sometimes see over 70% fatalities due to the fragility of the animals. Plus the cost is horrendous, I usually ask the spay/neuter people if they'ed like to vote a tax levy in for the district to pay for the program and the silence is deafening.
 
2014-01-19 06:39:01 PM  

boinkingbill: Coyotes are killing and eating those nasty, annoying little yappy dogs?

I'm okay with this.


This was in my old building a few years ago.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-19 06:54:22 PM  

JeffreyScott: s3.amazonaws.com


Coyotes are Jersey's younger but uglier versions of cougars right?
 
2014-01-19 07:01:51 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Why not just expand hunting season?


Cuz the anti-hunting people in this state would probably freak.  We've got the highest bear density in the country (yeah, google it) yet half the cars here have bumper stickers with "Ban the bear hunt" on them.
 
2014-01-19 07:09:15 PM  
"It's the biggest high you can ever get in your life,"

Meh. As a hunter myself, I must say your life must suck in terms of life experience if taking a 4 point buck was the big IT for you.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy hunting, but I hunt to eat due to my heritage. What's the thrill of killing a deer? I do that quite regularly. Now BOW-hunting bear or taking a cougar out with a KNIFE, I could understand, but it's a fugging deer. There's no damned thrill to that anymore than setting a high record in Pac Man. It's not sporting to the deer at all unless you plan on hand-wrestling the damned thing by the horns.
 
2014-01-19 07:12:18 PM  

Terrible Old Man: "It's the biggest high you can ever get in your life,"

Meh. As a hunter myself, I must say your life must suck in terms of life experience if taking a 4 point buck was the big IT for you.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy hunting, but I hunt to eat due to my heritage. What's the thrill of killing a deer? I do that quite regularly. Now BOW-hunting bear or taking a cougar out with a KNIFE, I could understand, but it's a fugging deer. There's no damned thrill to that anymore than setting a high record in Pac Man. It's not sporting to the deer at all unless you plan on hand-wrestling the damned thing by the horns.


I mean also take into account he was 15 and spending time with his dad when it happened. That's prime real estate in the "pink colored glasses" market.
 
2014-01-19 07:51:18 PM  
Years ago I was walking in Tucson and got to a light and had to wait for the green.  Suddenly next to me there is a dog walking up and stopping for the green as well even though there was little traffic.  The light changes and I start walking across with the dog and suddenly realize that is no dog, that is a coyote.  I continued to watch him as I let him get ahead and saw him stop at the next intersection to get the green even though no one was standing there waiting.
 
2014-01-19 08:25:00 PM  
A coyote will breed with and/or eat your dog, depending.
 
2014-01-19 08:41:58 PM  

interstellar_tedium: Years ago I was walking in Tucson and got to a light and had to wait for the green.  Suddenly next to me there is a dog walking up and stopping for the green as well even though there was little traffic.  The light changes and I start walking across with the dog and suddenly realize that is no dog, that is a coyote.  I continued to watch him as I let him get ahead and saw him stop at the next intersection to get the green even though no one was standing there waiting.


There have been numerous sightings/videos of coyotes in the LA area doing the same thing. Not wonder wolves and cougars are damned near extinct while coyotes flourish.
 
2014-01-19 09:09:50 PM  
There go all of NJ's feral kitties...

/and small yappy dogs
 
2014-01-20 12:01:17 AM  
Love to see it happen.
 
2014-01-20 01:26:17 AM  
OK, I guess no one noticed this flaw in the hunters' reasoning.

They say government and insurance companies are colluding in importing coyotes to knock down the deer population.

Then they say they are combating this by hunting down the coyotes.  However, they are tricky little bastards and it's hard to for hunters to find them and kill them.

Fine.

Then how, if coyotes are so farking hard to hunt and kill, does the government and insurance companies manage to find them, catch them alive and bring them in alive to the state in question?
 
2014-01-20 01:52:39 AM  

Aulus: OK, I guess no one noticed this flaw in the hunters' reasoning.

They say government and insurance companies are colluding in importing coyotes to knock down the deer population.

Then they say they are combating this by hunting down the coyotes.  However, they are tricky little bastards and it's hard to for hunters to find them and kill them.

Fine.

Then how, if coyotes are so farking hard to hunt and kill, does the government and insurance companies manage to find them, catch them alive and bring them in alive to the state in question?


A cunning man would probably realize that those organizations could look to some type of breeding system in which dogs or a similar animal were bred for sale. Only a cunning man would see that though.

/this story is apocryphal bs
 
2014-01-20 02:16:57 AM  

rohar: simplicimus: Silentbob768768: simplicimus: Glitchwerks: Oldiron_79: If you want to reduce deer you probably want a bigger predator like wolves or cougars.

You want wolves, because wolves control coyotes too.

You don't want cougars, because cougars do not give a fark about anything.

[2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com image 600x600]

Another vote for wolves. Not much danger to humans, deadly for deer.

Lots of livestock up here though

There are breeds of dogs that are quite effective at protecting livestock.

Yup, they look like this:

very effective against coyotes, wolves and mountain lions.


My family raised goats for many years, and we had a llama as a livestock guardian. I actually got to see it run down and kill a coyote. (Warning, some might find this story graphic). I was hunting, and a small brown streak entered the field, followed closely by a big white streak. They were both just booking it, and the llama, Oscar, caught up about 30 yards in front of my stand, and suddenly I had ringside seats to a SLAUGHTER!
I had expected the stomping, with the llama being a larger, heavier animal, what I didn't expect was the move where he bit the coyote by the scruff, held it, stomped a rear hoof THROUGH the stomach, and then pulled at the neck to disembowl. When he finally left, I took a closer look, and it wasn't a stomped, trampled coyote out there, it was coyote pieces strewn about as if the 'yote had swallowed a grenade. After seeing coyote predations on our goat flock, when I saw the absolute mayhem wreaked on coyotes by that llama, I seriously wanted to buy it a beer and get it a female.
A few years later I was attacked by a neighbor's llama, and that still ranks as the scariest moment of my life. I knew what that creature was capable of.

/one small scar, from the barbed-wire fence it knocked me into
//csb
 
2014-01-20 02:48:10 AM  

interstellar_tedium: Years ago I was walking in Tucson and got to a light and had to wait for the green.  Suddenly next to me there is a dog walking up and stopping for the green as well even though there was little traffic.  The light changes and I start walking across with the dog and suddenly realize that is no dog, that is a coyote.  I continued to watch him as I let him get ahead and saw him stop at the next intersection to get the green even though no one was standing there waiting.


Urban coyotes must be more acclimated to people. I lived on a farm for two years, they own ~450 acres and there's tons more empty/forested land besides that in the area, and have never seen one here. I've heard them on occasion, and I've definitely seen signs (tracks, spoor, remains of smaller animals), but never put my eyes on them. Never even seen one run across the road in front of my car or anything like that.
 
2014-01-20 03:12:47 AM  

ladyfortuna: interstellar_tedium: Years ago I was walking in Tucson and got to a light and had to wait for the green.  Suddenly next to me there is a dog walking up and stopping for the green as well even though there was little traffic.  The light changes and I start walking across with the dog and suddenly realize that is no dog, that is a coyote.  I continued to watch him as I let him get ahead and saw him stop at the next intersection to get the green even though no one was standing there waiting.

Urban coyotes must be more acclimated to people. I lived on a farm for two years, they own ~450 acres and there's tons more empty/forested land besides that in the area, and have never seen one here. I've heard them on occasion, and I've definitely seen signs (tracks, spoor, remains of smaller animals), but never put my eyes on them. Never even seen one run across the road in front of my car or anything like that.


I ran into a pack of 3 or 4 when hiking through the Cuyahoga Valley National Park on an infrequently used trail. I crested a hill and they were standing just on the other side, maybe 20' from me. As soon as they took notice of me they took off for the bushes which is why I'm not 100% sure if it was 3 or 4 animals. They were probably 30-40lbs each which means they weren't taking down any adult deer except maybe a sick doe (the whitetails grow big around here as long as there's food and it's been years since we had enough of a winter to keep their population down, though this one might do it). The mountain lion we had in the park was another case entirely, it was a young male but still big enough that someone saw it carry a deer over a 6' fence. I really wish we had some wolves around, big enough to kill the adults but not as dangerous as the lion to people.
 
2014-01-20 03:34:54 AM  

ladyfortuna: interstellar_tedium: Years ago I was walking in Tucson and got to a light and had to wait for the green.  Suddenly next to me there is a dog walking up and stopping for the green as well even though there was little traffic.  The light changes and I start walking across with the dog and suddenly realize that is no dog, that is a coyote.  I continued to watch him as I let him get ahead and saw him stop at the next intersection to get the green even though no one was standing there waiting.

Urban coyotes must be more acclimated to people. I lived on a farm for two years, they own ~450 acres and there's tons more empty/forested land besides that in the area, and have never seen one here. I've heard them on occasion, and I've definitely seen signs (tracks, spoor, remains of smaller animals), but never put my eyes on them. Never even seen one run across the road in front of my car or anything like that.


Urban coyotes are definitely more acclimated to people. I've been within about 70 ft of a pair of coyote in Lincoln Park in downtown Chicago. One was sitting in the middle of a fairly busy street after midnight. The other one was looking for food. They sat around long enough for me to get several blurry shots of them (shiatty camera phone) over a few minutes. I've also seen more than a few coyotes in my parents' suburban neighborhood as well as my old neighbor's Bernese Mountain Dog chasing a coyote away from his outside food dish. That was actually kind of funny. I'm not sure I've ever seen a coyote when I was out in the boonies or hunting on my family's farm. Kind of funny thinking that I've been close enough to hit a coyote with a baseball far more often in the city than I have when I actually had a gun in my hand.
 
Displayed 116 of 116 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter








In Other Media
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report