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(The Atlantic)   Apparently, the best model for childhood education was developed in 19th century Germany. You know what else was developed in 19th century Germany?   (theatlantic.com) divider line 115
    More: Strange, childhood, Glenn Harlan Reynolds, charter schools, Chronicle of Higher Education, the real  
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10632 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2014 at 8:35 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-19 07:26:21 AM
Karl Hungus, cable TV repairman
 
2014-01-19 08:34:26 AM
Bismarck, the First German Reich, and the situations that would create the First World War at the start if the 20th Century?
 
2014-01-19 08:37:54 AM
Plans to bomb Pearl Harbor?
 
2014-01-19 08:39:13 AM
Wasn't that the system designed to churn out moderately educated stock for the army while indoctrinating them with patriotism?
 
2014-01-19 08:39:19 AM
Beer purity laws?
 
2014-01-19 08:40:05 AM
The 4-stroke internal combustion engine?
 
2014-01-19 08:40:08 AM
Maybe some sort of concentration camp would help the children learn better?
 
2014-01-19 08:41:08 AM
Cocaine and TNT.
 
2014-01-19 08:42:45 AM
Pressed tin toy railways?
 
2014-01-19 08:42:47 AM

brilett: Beer purity laws?


The Reinheitsgebot date from the 15th century.
 
2014-01-19 08:43:19 AM
Ha! Joke's on you, Subby. Hitler was born in Australia.
 
2014-01-19 08:43:51 AM
The Larch
 
2014-01-19 08:43:52 AM

Target Builder: Wasn't that the system designed to churn out moderately educated stock for the army while indoctrinating them with patriotism?


I don't see the connection.

/i pledge allegiance
//to the flag
///of the...
 
2014-01-19 08:45:53 AM
Is it just me or did that guy say nothing about his book other than vague generalities?

I mean, I still don't really understand what he thinks the problems with the K-12 system are or how he proposes to fix it other than it isn't "sufficiently customized" and it needs to be more like homeschooling. There was a hell of a lot more hot air than there was useful info.
 
2014-01-19 08:46:01 AM
The crumbly topping on Strussel?
 
2014-01-19 08:48:14 AM
dartonrefuel.com
 
2014-01-19 08:48:30 AM
FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.
 
2014-01-19 08:48:32 AM

gwowen: The 4-stroke internal combustion engine?


Though, the Germans were integral in marketing and refining the 4-stroke, the Italians, British and French were much more responsible for developing it.
 
2014-01-19 08:49:56 AM
They are just more advanced than the rest of the world; it took America 50 years to elect for Hitler to come into power
 
2014-01-19 08:52:21 AM
Karl Marx?
 
2014-01-19 08:54:43 AM
Schnitzel press?
 
2014-01-19 08:55:15 AM
The author gets a few things wrong.  New York Public schools are not awful.  Some of them are.  Some are the best in the world.  However, he doesn't want to acknowledge this because it defeats his narrative that Unions are bad.  Also, in one paragraph, he states that the reason things are the same is because the Unions and tenured professors want to keep things that way, in the next paragraph he states that it is the administrators.  There are no school administrators in the teachers' union.  Perhaps he should research the subject a bit more before deciding he is an education expert and writing a book.
 
2014-01-19 08:55:31 AM
More Germans?
 
2014-01-19 08:56:00 AM
FTA: if you are in a market like New York, say, where the public schools are lousy and the private schools are ridiculously expensive, then homeschooling provides an opportunity for people who don't have enough money for private school but value their kids' education too much to send them to public school to still live in New York as opposed to having to move somewhere else.

Right.  There are tons of people who can afford to live in New York, can't afford to send their kids to a private school, but can afford to have one parent full-time stay-at-home to homeschool the kid(s). Sure.

That's what schools provide in massive amounts.  Babysitting.  Which freed up tens of millions of women to work.  Do you see that trend going backwards any time soon? The author apparently does.
 
2014-01-19 08:56:34 AM

Gecko Gingrich: gwowen: The 4-stroke internal combustion engine?

Though, the Germans were integral in marketing and refining the 4-stroke, the Italians, British and French were much more responsible for developing it.


Well ... maybe. There were lots of simultaneous breakthroughs, and patents. But Otto and Daimler took French ideas and built functioning engines with them, and that works for me.

Anyway, scratch my answer and put the Diesel Engine.
 
2014-01-19 08:57:09 AM

NobleHam: Karl Marx?


images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-19 09:01:12 AM

ltr77: There are no school administrators in the teachers' union.  Perhaps he should research the subject a bit more before deciding he is an education expert and writing a book.


Yeah, after a bit of googling to try and actually work out what point this guy is making, the conclusion I'm coming to is that he's deliberately vague about what he thinks the problem is and what his proposed solutions are because he's trying to hide the fact that he doesn't actually know a lot about the topic.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume the book is not good.
 
2014-01-19 09:01:33 AM
The Derwitzer Glider?
 
2014-01-19 09:07:22 AM
Sounds like this guy has been reading Gatto's "Underground History of American Education".
 
2014-01-19 09:07:50 AM
The Mauser '96 machine pistol.  It was a copy of Han Solo's DL-44 blaster, converted to gunpowder.
 
2014-01-19 09:10:42 AM
In Germany (and some of Germany's neighbors) they have separate high schools and middle schools for the "college bound" students and for the "vocation bound" students. Voc school's classroom time ends at age 16 while college bound ends at age 18. We have some of that here. What we don't have, that they do have, is a willingness to sort out which child goes to which type of school at age 9. Yes, children of Turkish or African immigrants are more likely to be sorted to the lower track. But few in Germany care about this. They see school as a rough meritocracy and not as a place where we try to alleviate other social problems.
 
2014-01-19 09:11:11 AM

gwowen: Gecko Gingrich: gwowen: The 4-stroke internal combustion engine?

Though, the Germans were integral in marketing and refining the 4-stroke, the Italians, British and French were much more responsible for developing it.

Well ... maybe. There were lots of simultaneous breakthroughs, and patents. But Otto and Daimler took French ideas and built functioning engines with them, and that works for me.

Anyway, scratch my answer and put the Diesel Engine.


Compression ignition it is!
 
2014-01-19 09:11:38 AM

Gunther: ltr77: There are no school administrators in the teachers' union.  Perhaps he should research the subject a bit more before deciding he is an education expert and writing a book.

Yeah, after a bit of googling to try and actually work out what point this guy is making, the conclusion I'm coming to is that he's deliberately vague about what he thinks the problem is and what his proposed solutions are because he's trying to hide the fact that he doesn't actually know a lot about the topic.



I don't know a lot about the topic, and I can speak in vague generalities. Do you think being a successful author is right for me?
 
2014-01-19 09:15:36 AM
Gas lighting, contact lenses, radar, and four-wheeled internal combustion engine vehicles.
 
2014-01-19 09:16:48 AM
Scheisse porn?   It's my understanding that Adolf Hitler (born in the Austro-Hungarian Empire) was a big fan of scheisse porn.
 
2014-01-19 09:17:25 AM
The Sham-Wow?
 
2014-01-19 09:18:20 AM
Dumbass writer spewing party aligned bullshiat with no data to back them up.

Look at how these "theories" have worked in North Carolina (and soon Ohio among other states).
 
2014-01-19 09:19:31 AM

Snarfangel: I don't know a lot about the topic, and I can speak in vague generalities. Do you think being a successful author is right for me?


Go for it man. Just blame everything on the unions, talk about how awesome homeschooling is and give lots of interviews where you say as little as possible. You might wanna take ten minutes to skim a couple Wiki pages first, but don't go crazy.
 
2014-01-19 09:20:10 AM

Snarfangel: Gunther: ltr77: There are no school administrators in the teachers' union.  Perhaps he should research the subject a bit more before deciding he is an education expert and writing a book.

Yeah, after a bit of googling to try and actually work out what point this guy is making, the conclusion I'm coming to is that he's deliberately vague about what he thinks the problem is and what his proposed solutions are because he's trying to hide the fact that he doesn't actually know a lot about the topic.


I don't know a lot about the topic, and I can speak in vague generalities. Do you think being a successful author is right for me?


Can you pull a sword out of a stone?
 
2014-01-19 09:23:12 AM

Gecko Gingrich: Cocaine and TNT.


Now that is a band name if I ever heard one.  Stealing it when I learn to play piano and stuff.
 
2014-01-19 09:24:09 AM

jgbrowning: FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.


Except that's never going to happen.  Even if you were to somehow ban private schools and require public education, the rich would either fly the kiddies out of the country to an expensive "boarding school" somewhere or get together in a ridiculously high priced district.
 
2014-01-19 09:25:47 AM
The garden gnome?
img1.etsystatic.com
 
2014-01-19 09:29:40 AM
Autobahn?
 
2014-01-19 09:29:47 AM

Marquis de Sod: The garden gnome?
[img1.etsystatic.com image 850x637]



Something like that would definitely set my house apart. "Go down the street until you see the threatening gnomes, then slowly pull into the driveway without making any sudden moves."
 
2014-01-19 09:32:41 AM
No, the best education system came out of Italy around 1906.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-19 09:35:34 AM
The birth of Nihilism?
 
2014-01-19 09:38:05 AM

pueblonative: jgbrowning: FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.

Except that's never going to happen.  Even if you were to somehow ban private schools and require public education, the rich would either fly the kiddies out of the country to an expensive "boarding school" somewhere or get together in a ridiculously high priced district.


To the communists who post on Fark, it's all about forcing rich people to give you what they have. They tune out the wonderful examples of why this doesn't work, from the 20th century.

Good education and acquisition of knowledge and skills has nothing to do with rich people. It has to with the middle class, which is eventually damaged by socialism and gutted by communism.

Fact: inner city schools are largely awful because of the political machines that run those cities and govt policies that discourage keeping families intact and setting meaningful goals in life.
 
2014-01-19 09:40:41 AM
Came in here looking for child models...uh, I mean looking for children to model for ...er...educational observances, buh, a childhood model that teaches development of...la la la, 19th century Germany
 
2014-01-19 09:46:30 AM

Target Builder: Wasn't that the system designed to churn out moderately educated stock for the army while indoctrinating them with patriotism?


Factory workers more so. Basically people who follow directions.
 
2014-01-19 09:51:02 AM
Sure. I want future policy analysis from Glen Reynolds, a rightwing derper, who seems into sex-robots as a vision of the future.

Online education is just as good as a college classroom just as sex with a robot is as good or better than sex and social relations with a real life woman.
 
2014-01-19 09:53:18 AM
Paraffin Wax, Assault Rifles, the Wagner Tuba, Refractometers and Marxism?
 
2014-01-19 09:53:22 AM
The past forty years of research points to vocabulary development birth through five. If parents and schools gave that more attention, other problems might go away.

And then we would not need the latest educator turned savant book club. Seriously, if one more of these idiots tells me how important computers are in the classroom... Google fails when the user has little or no working memory. Sheesh.
 
2014-01-19 09:58:59 AM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Gecko Gingrich: Cocaine and TNT.

Now that is a band name if I ever heard one.  Stealing it when I learn to play piano and stuff.


I once played in a band called "Bourbon & Power Tools."
 
2014-01-19 09:59:11 AM

Animatronik: pueblonative: jgbrowning: FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.

Except that's never going to happen.  Even if you were to somehow ban private schools and require public education, the rich would either fly the kiddies out of the country to an expensive "boarding school" somewhere or get together in a ridiculously high priced district.

To the communists who post on Fark, it's all about forcing rich people to give you what they have. They tune out the wonderful examples of why this doesn't work, from the 20th century.

Good education and acquisition of knowledge and skills has nothing to do with rich people. It has to with the middle class, which is eventually damaged by socialism and gutted by communism.

Fact: inner city schools are largely awful because of the political machines that run those cities and govt policies that discourage keeping families intact and setting meaningful goals in life.


Because trickle down economics has done such a bang up job protecting the middle class.
 
2014-01-19 10:01:36 AM

Badgers: Paraffin Wax, Assault Rifles, the Wagner Tuba, Refractometers and Marxism?


I own two of those and use them regularly at work.
 
2014-01-19 10:04:07 AM

a_bilge_monkey: Badgers: Paraffin Wax, Assault Rifles, the Wagner Tuba, Refractometers and Marxism?

I own two of those and use them regularly at work.


I'm assuming you are both a FARCer and a FARKer.
 
2014-01-19 10:05:43 AM
jgbrowning:   Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.

qft
 
2014-01-19 10:07:42 AM

Aar1012: Bismarck, the First German Reich, and the situations that would create the First World War at the start if the 20th Century?


Nope, that'd be the Holy Roman Empire; the Reich created by Bismarck & Co. was the so-called "second Reich."
 
2014-01-19 10:08:46 AM
Large-scale industrial chemisty, the applied-research model of universities and technical institutes, and the Romantic movement in literature and music?
 
2014-01-19 10:11:17 AM
The purpose of the Prussian model for government schools was to provide dumb cannon fodder for the armed forces, and in 2014 America the system is performing exactly as designed.
 
2014-01-19 10:12:22 AM

Gunther: Is it just me or did that guy say nothing about his book other than vague generalities?

I mean, I still don't really understand what he thinks the problems with the K-12 system are or how he proposes to fix it other than it isn't "sufficiently customized" and it needs to be more like homeschooling. There was a hell of a lot more hot air than there was useful info.


Thanks for condensing my thoughts while reading this pos interview.
 
2014-01-19 10:12:58 AM

mgshamster: Animatronik: pueblonative: jgbrowning: FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.

Except that's never going to happen.  Even if you were to somehow ban private schools and require public education, the rich would either fly the kiddies out of the country to an expensive "boarding school" somewhere or get together in a ridiculously high priced district.

To the communists who post on Fark, it's all about forcing rich people to give you what they have. They tune out the wonderful examples of why this doesn't work, from the 20th century.

Good education and acquisition of knowledge and skills has nothing to do with rich people. It has to with the middle class, which is eventually damaged by socialism and gutted by communism.

Fact: inner city schools are largely awful because of the political machines that run those cities and govt policies that discourage keeping families intact and setting meaningful goals in life.

Because trickle down economics has done such a bang up job protecting the middle class.


Blaming the increasingly unequal distribution of the wealth of this nation (created through labor) that we've seen over the past 30 years on socialism and communism let me know he ain't none too bright. Blaming the "librul-machine" for creating "anti-marriage" and "pro-laziness" policies for creating awful schools was enough to confirm that he's just another Potato Thinker to be ignored.
 
2014-01-19 10:14:18 AM

Gecko Gingrich: a_bilge_monkey: Badgers: Paraffin Wax, Assault Rifles, the Wagner Tuba, Refractometers and Marxism?

I own two of those and use them regularly at work.

I'm assuming you are both a FARCer and a FARKer.


Well, I'm neither a musician, nor an infantryman.
 
2014-01-19 10:14:34 AM

Animatronik: Fact: inner city schools are largely awful because of the political machines that run those cities and govt policies that discourage keeping families intact and setting meaningful goals in life.


================

Which is the way the ruling class wants it.   In New Jersey the state created "Abbott districts" to fund inner city schools.  The Abbotts have soaked up a lot of money over the years.....per pupil spending is often greater than in many suburban districts.  Most of the Abbott money is sucked up crooked administrators ( who themselves are minority).  It's no different than the way Nazis used Jews as capos to beat down the Jewish camp inmates.  The Abbott administrators drive to their jobs in Bentleys while the kids learn nothing.  At 18 those kids are turned out into the streets.    This system assures that the kids are caged up during the day where they can't cause trouble, but won't learn enough to challenge the status quo.  The people in the 'hood who might cause trouble are bought off with school administration jobs.   The money to pay for all this comes from the middle class who are happy that their little snowflakes don't have to sit next to little Jamal and Loquisha.
 
2014-01-19 10:14:51 AM
www.bonkersinstitute.org
 
2014-01-19 10:15:30 AM
Anything you can do to break up the k-12 unions and the tenured class will be a huge step in the right direction.
 
2014-01-19 10:15:59 AM
Scanned tfa but it seemed he was never specific about the name of the educator that gave him his ideas but it sounds like the Steiner ideals.
 
2014-01-19 10:16:50 AM
 
2014-01-19 10:30:47 AM
<i>To the communists who post on Fark, it's all about forcing rich people to give you what they have. They tune out the wonderful examples of why this doesn't work, from the 20th century.

Good education and acquisition of knowledge and skills has nothing to do with rich people. It has to with the middle class, which is eventually damaged by socialism and gutted by communism.

Fact: inner city schools are largely awful because of the political machines that run those cities and govt policies that discourage keeping families intact and setting meaningful goals in life.</i>

First, I'd say the evidence is in from the lat 20th century and capitalism can and does do the very thing you attribute to communism and socialism if you let it.  Since the 1970s as the US has become more and more "business friendly" the income of the top 1%, adjusted for inflation has increased 282%.  This is while the incomes for the next highest 4% increased only 50%.  Incomes for the bottom 80% declined slightly.   (reference here. Look for the first paper under the Income Inequality heading).

Your "fact" about inner city schools isn't really correct.  Inner-city problems stem mostly from a lack of opportunity and a flight of a large portion of people earning good incomes and the loss of tax revenue that entails.  Couple that with crappy public transportation (like here in STL where a car trip taking 20-30 minutes can take almost two hours on a bus) and you end up with large populations of the poor and poorly educated who have almost no access to jobs paying enough for them to lift themselves out of poverty or provide a modest, but sufficient standard of living.

Don't tell me that these people should move.  Many barely have the resources to live where they do and can't afford housing elsewhere.  The suburban areas where they could find employment tend not to have enough public or subsidized housing for the low-income populations they already have and actively resist resettling more low-income people in their communities.  The more ambitious suburban communities will move to eliminate low-income areas by shifting new retail and office developments into those areas.  You see this a lot here in St Louis coupled with lots of government subsidies like TIF.  State law also allows eminent domain for private development so anyone who doesn't take the buyout gets tossed out.

The "War on Drugs" also creates problems because of how police enforce those laws.  Blacks and other minorities use drugs in about the same proportion as whites, yet blacks are arrested and go to prison in much higher proportion for drug crimes than whites.  Once you have a conviction, many many opportunities are closed to you from jobs to education and beyond.

The evidence is pretty clear.  The problems are plutocracy, racism, and unfettered capitalism not socialism, corrupt politicians, or laziness.

/your mother was a hamster
//your father smelt of elderberries
 
2014-01-19 10:31:22 AM
Strapping my glock(enspiel)
 
2014-01-19 10:34:06 AM

krafty420: Relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U


Found that interesting.
 
2014-01-19 10:36:23 AM

dugitman: Gunther: Is it just me or did that guy say nothing about his book other than vague generalities?

I mean, I still don't really understand what he thinks the problems with the K-12 system are or how he proposes to fix it other than it isn't "sufficiently customized" and it needs to be more like homeschooling. There was a hell of a lot more hot air than there was useful info.

Thanks for condensing my thoughts while reading this pos interview.


While it doesn't appear to have much in the way of scholarly rigor or specifics, it does seem about exactly the level of trite baloney I'd expect from someone who writes for Instapundit.  By that metric, I'd say he nailed it.

Mr. Reynolds: You have my permission to use the above quote on your book's dust jacket. No ellipses.
 
2014-01-19 10:58:13 AM
Lochsteppe:
While it doesn't appear to have much in the way of scholarly rigor or specifics, it does seem about exactly the level of trite baloney I'd expect from someone who writes for Instapundit. By that metric, I'd say he nailed it.

Wow - you managed to combine an argument from ignorance with an ad hominem - in one sentence.

Impressive.

/but what would an actual constitutional law professor know about education, right?
 
2014-01-19 11:04:32 AM
Frankly the administrators on both sides have arranged things, as people naturally tend to do out of human nature, in ways that make their lives as comfortable and pleasant and secure as possible.

Hahaha... No. While I would agree with Dr. Ken Robinson and say the purpose of the education system appears to be to create the university professor, with our education system often explicit in being a protracted form of admission to higher education which sustains itself with academics from academics for academics, our system has severe issues due to extensive decentralization where administrators, parents, politicians, educators, researchers, companies, etc., from each stage are trying to make decisions about how a school is to be managed. Were anyone to want to make the positions of my colleagues as comfortable, pleasant, and secure as possible, we would abandon the state assessments, ignore the growth plans, halve the number of district assessments, halve the number of district-required assessments (different set), stop the three expensive programs which supplant rather than supplement our curriculum (school specific), and use the funds saved for substitutes who would permit co-teaching and peer observation and mentor teaching models as well as opportunities for individual diagnostic assessments as needed.

Altogether, this would return about five full weeks of instruction to our school year, and the stressors for both teacher and student would be gone, but our cost would be not having numbers to wave around about how much better we are doing as a result... the travesty.

What you mean to say is idiots such as yourself are trying to give simple but vague solutions to complex but real problems revolving around disparity between peoples and our unwillingness to invest resources, money, time, and energy into equitable and rich education; a hint for Glenn Reynolds: what I said is not a solution but a general overview of a problem.
 
2014-01-19 11:04:37 AM

jgbrowning: FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.


Another example of how poor and dumb people stay poor and dumb, thanks to their own clever machinations.
 
2014-01-19 11:09:48 AM

i.imgur.com

 
2014-01-19 11:11:07 AM
Well duh.  If you weren't a good kid, Struwwelpeter would come round and do horrible things to you.
 
2014-01-19 11:11:22 AM
Hamburgers and hot dogs?
 
2014-01-19 11:11:26 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com
A festival that celebrates the fall harvest accompanied by a copious amount of food and drink, catered to by top-heavy lasses?

/don't know if it was started in the 18th century, but pic is relevant enough
 
2014-01-19 11:17:11 AM

wildcardjack: The crumbly topping on Strussel?


Streusel *is* the topping, dumbass.
 
2014-01-19 11:18:58 AM
Quantum physics?
 
2014-01-19 11:37:00 AM

HairBolus: Sure. I want future policy analysis from Glen Reynolds, a rightwing derper, who seems into sex-robots as a vision of the future.

Online education is just as good as a college classroom just as sex with a robot is as good or better than sex and social relations with a real life woman.


b.vimeocdn.com

Tell that to my Monroebot.
 
2014-01-19 11:39:24 AM
Socialism? Leading to a mass exodus of Germans to America to look for a better way of life?
 
2014-01-19 11:41:02 AM

Gunderson: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x566]
A festival that celebrates the fall harvest accompanied by a copious amount of food and drink, catered to by top-heavy lasses?

/don't know if it was started in the 18th century, but pic is relevant enough


And to deal with some of the symtoms of attending said festival:

media-2.web.britannica.com
 
2014-01-19 11:52:06 AM
 
2014-01-19 11:57:32 AM

Animatronik: pueblonative: jgbrowning: FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.

Except that's never going to happen.  Even if you were to somehow ban private schools and require public education, the rich would either fly the kiddies out of the country to an expensive "boarding school" somewhere or get together in a ridiculously high priced district.

To the communists who post on Fark, it's all about forcing rich people to give you what they have. They tune out the wonderful examples of why this doesn't work, from the 20th century.

Good education and acquisition of knowledge and skills has nothing to do with rich people. It has to with the middle class, which is eventually damaged by socialism and gutted by communism.

Fact: inner city schools are largely awful because of the political machines that run those cities and govt policies that discourage keeping families intact and setting meaningful goals in life.


Yes, because the middle class is doing so well under our current hyper capitalism.

The truth of the matter is that the middle class is a rare and fragile animal that only really exists in numbers when government for the social good (the rue definition of socialism) *and* a meritorious free enterprise system (true capitalism) are in balance with one another.

And yes, it takes both.

The growth of the American middle class  during the economic boom after World War II occurred *because* of the social net/ civic services building, both philanthropic and coerced, during the late 1920 and during the dark years of the 1930.

And, to be honest, the current model might even be sustainable in and of itself if the upper 25% would embrace a more general philanthropic stance and invest heavily in public schools, libraries, etc.

/ I'm also fairly certain that beating it out of them via the government isn't a long term solution either.
// We really need to stomp the "fark you! I got mine!" attitude and "fark you! Give me yours!" at the same time.
 
2014-01-19 12:13:51 PM

scarmig: No, the best education system came out of Italy around 1906.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x275]


Yes, because taking homeless kids off the street and teaching them to be cogs in the industrial machine worked like farking gangbusters because you can't fall off the street into deeper poverty.
That nonsense is as obsolete to education as applying leeches is to medicine in the 21st Century.
 
2014-01-19 12:17:12 PM

Gunther: Is it just me or did that guy say nothing about his book other than vague generalities?

I mean, I still don't really understand what he thinks the problems with the K-12 system are or how he proposes to fix it other than it isn't "sufficiently customized" and it needs to be more like homeschooling. There was a hell of a lot more hot air than there was useful info.


I wouldn't know. I got to his herp derp on homeschooling and stopped wasting my time listening to him any further right there.
 
2014-01-19 12:30:16 PM

cirby: Lochsteppe:
While it doesn't appear to have much in the way of scholarly rigor or specifics, it does seem about exactly the level of trite baloney I'd expect from someone who writes for Instapundit. By that metric, I'd say he nailed it.

Wow - you managed to combine an argument from ignorance with an ad hominem - in one sentence.

Impressive.

/but what would an actual constitutional law professor know about education, right?


Meh.  Welcome to snark.

For what it's worth, professors in most disciplines, including law, receive little if any training in education or teaching methods.  They are hired because of their expertise in their particular field, and it's assumed (for better or worse) that they will figure out the teaching part.

/Working on my PhD now, with a partial emphasis in pedagogy, so I speak from (some) experience. It's a lazy Sunday, though, so I'll admit to not trying very hard.
 
2014-01-19 12:39:29 PM
"You know what else was developed in 19th century Germany?"

An educated population that knew the 1800s were the 19th century.
 
2014-01-19 12:49:45 PM

jtown: Target Builder: Wasn't that the system designed to churn out moderately educated stock for the army while indoctrinating them with patriotism?

I don't see the connection.

/i pledge allegiance
//to the flag
///of the...


1942. Congress recognized it during the Second World War.
 
2014-01-19 12:53:19 PM

KeelingLovesCornholes: Anything you can do to break up the k-12 unions and the tenured class will be a huge step in the right direction.


Yes, our education should be less like the northeast, and more like the Deep South!
 
2014-01-19 01:00:17 PM
The idea to train workers as compliant, replaceable units in the corporate machine? That'll never happen!

// because it's a long accomplished fact.
 
2014-01-19 01:16:09 PM
This is the Instapundit guy. Move along.


scarmig
No, the best education system came out of Italy around 1906.

www1.chapman.edu


Vangor
Were anyone to want to make the positions of my colleagues as comfortable, pleasant, and secure as possible

That would be you. Seize control of your union and unleash your full power to impose what you know is right.


MemeSlave
Socialism? Leading to a mass exodus of Germans to America to look for a better way of life?

er, what? You mean that the banning of socialism lead to a mass exodus of Germans, right?
 
2014-01-19 01:21:27 PM

Fissile: Scheisse porn?   It's my understanding that Adolf Hitler (born in the Austro-Hungarian Empire) was a big fan of scheisse porn.


Read Erich Fromm's Anatomy of Human Destructiveness.
Section three is about Hitler's obsession with urinary stimulation.
 
2014-01-19 01:36:30 PM
Another suggestion for your reading list:
Diane Ravitch, The Great School Wars.

/me Ed.D.
//me gots edumacashun
 
2014-01-19 02:07:48 PM
The unified German state?
 
2014-01-19 02:18:03 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: HairBolus: Sure. I want future policy analysis from Glen Reynolds, a rightwing derper, who seems into sex-robots as a vision of the future.

Online education is just as good as a college classroom just as sex with a robot is as good or better than sex and social relations with a real life woman.



Tell that to my Monroebot.


Now get Liu bot to go with it and you have a party
 
2014-01-19 03:10:13 PM
Many parents are also sending their children to school and then home schooling them in the basic subjects after school.


The parents send them to school because they need to work  and then after the day is finished these parents instruct their children in mathematics and literature because the schools do not.
 
2014-01-19 03:17:50 PM

SheltemDragon: Animatronik: pueblonative: jgbrowning: FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.

Except that's never going to happen.  Even if you were to somehow ban private schools and require public education, the rich would either fly the kiddies out of the country to an expensive "boarding school" somewhere or get together in a ridiculously high priced district.

To the communists who post on Fark, it's all about forcing rich people to give you what they have. They tune out the wonderful examples of why this doesn't work, from the 20th century.

Good education and acquisition of knowledge and skills has nothing to do with rich people. It has to with the middle class, which is eventually damaged by socialism and gutted by communism.

Fact: inner city schools are largely awful because of the political machines that run those cities and govt policies that discourage keeping families intact and setting meaningful goals in life.

Yes, because the middle class is doing so well under our current hyper capitalism.

The truth of the matter is that the middle class is a rare and fragile animal that only really exists in numbers when government for the social good (the rue definition of socialism) *and* a meritorious free enterprise system (true capitalism) are in balance with one another.

And yes, it takes both.

The growth of the American middle class  during the economic boom after World War II occurred *because* of the social net/ civic services building, both philanthropic and coerced, during the late 1920 and during the dark years of the 1930.

And, to be honest, the current model might even be sustainable in and of itself if the upper 25% would embrace a more general philanthropic stance and invest heavily in public schools, libraries, etc.

/ I'm also fairly certain that beating it out of them via the government isn't a long term solution either.
// We really need to stomp the "fark you! I got mine!" attitude and "fark you! Give me yours!" at the same time.


Yup you need balance, if you go full retard either way you end up with either Robber Barrons or the USSR.
 
2014-01-19 03:35:59 PM

GentDirkly: In Germany (and some of Germany's neighbors) they have separate high schools and middle schools for the "college bound" students and for the "vocation bound" students. Voc school's classroom time ends at age 16 while college bound ends at age 18. We have some of that here. What we don't have, that they do have, is a willingness to sort out which child goes to which type of school at age 9. Yes, children of Turkish or African immigrants are more likely to be sorted to the lower track. But few in Germany care about this. They see school as a rough meritocracy and not as a place where we try to alleviate other social problems.


Bollocks. That isn't decided at age 9, it is decided at age 12. Furthermore, it's based on objective tests and, for those that need a little extra time, you can 'trade up' if you're a late bloomer.
 
2014-01-19 04:03:28 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Gecko Gingrich: Cocaine and TNT.

Now that is a band name if I ever heard one.  Stealing it when I learn to play piano and stuff.


A band with that name should have no need for a piano.
 
2014-01-19 04:40:26 PM
Pointy helmets?

mysite.verizon.net
 
2014-01-19 05:35:45 PM
inner city schools are crap because they are designed to be crap.

To quote Judge Smails, "The world needs ditch diggers, too."

Inner city schools were designed to warehouse kids, give them minimal amounts of busy work, train their behavior, then send them out the door to be good little maids, ditch diggers, and garbage men.

In the 70's, my junior high school had students from the rich part of town, us middle class kids, and the black and Mexican kids from the slums of Sugar Land, TX. The first thing they did was separate the kids by socio- economic status- the rich kids were all put in advanced classes whether they deserved to be there or now, the middle class kids were all put into second tier classes (unless they tested out and were put in advanced classes), and the minorities were warehoused with the dumb middle class kids.
The rich kids were taught how to be the leaders of tomorrow, the middle class kids were taught how to be good consumers, and the poor kids never had a chance.
 
2014-01-19 06:31:08 PM

Tumbleweed_TX: inner city schools are crap because they are designed to be crap.

To quote Judge Smails, "The world needs ditch diggers, too."

Inner city schools were designed to warehouse kids, give them minimal amounts of busy work, train their behavior, then send them out the door to be good little maids, ditch diggers, and garbage men.

In the 70's, my junior high school had students from the rich part of town, us middle class kids, and the black and Mexican kids from the slums of Sugar Land, TX. The first thing they did was separate the kids by socio- economic status- the rich kids were all put in advanced classes whether they deserved to be there or now, the middle class kids were all put into second tier classes (unless they tested out and were put in advanced classes), and the minorities were warehoused with the dumb middle class kids.
The rich kids were taught how to be the leaders of tomorrow, the middle class kids were taught how to be good consumers, and the poor kids never had a chance.


Very disturbing to realize our world has some genius ditch diggers and dim witted doctors, isn't it?  Crazy how some folks can pick a high paying profession with the same trouble as buying a house.  The more money you have available, the higher paying career is waiting for you.  Don't worry about actually having talent or skills, just test well.
 
2014-01-19 07:27:51 PM

jgbrowning: FTFA: "Why would we only have one school?"

Because when you force the wealthiest put their children right next to the all the plebs, you're going to get better education for the plebs than if you didn't. I don't care that this will reduce the quality of education of the wealthiest, they're going to do fine based upon their "merit" of winning the ability to inherit large amounts of wealth.


This is why I like living around some really rich people, y taxes are high but the schools are the best.  Ever notice no rich neighborhoods are pushing for charter schools, it's because our public schools are already good.  It amazes me that poor people don't realize this and actually fight for an equal school system instead of being tricked by politicians with charters.
 
2014-01-19 07:29:31 PM
Uh, yeah. Where do you think we got the word "kindergarten" from? Who *didn't* know that? Jesus, the public "education" system is a farking joke.
 
2014-01-19 07:51:28 PM

KeelingLovesCornholes: Anything you can do to break up the k-12 unions and the tenured class will be a huge step in the right direction.


If the motivation of breaking up the unions was to hold teachers accountable and improve education, I'd be all for it.  The problem is the goal seems to be to create another group of under paid workers and to hurt democrats.
 
2014-01-19 08:34:57 PM

rjakobi: Ha! Joke's on you, Subby. Hitler was born in Australia.


upload.wikimedia.org         "Guten Tag, mate!"
 
2014-01-19 08:53:17 PM
simania.co.il
 
2014-01-19 09:26:32 PM

Tumbleweed_TX: Inner city schools were designed to warehouse kids, give them minimal amounts of busy work, train their behavior, then send them out the door to be good little maids, ditch diggers, and garbage men.


==============

Today they are warehoused until they are 18, and then turned out to be fodder for the criminal justice system.
 
2014-01-19 09:50:38 PM

95BV5: wildcardjack: The crumbly topping on Strussel?

Streusel *is* the topping, dumbass.


Well that escalated quickly
 
2014-01-19 10:51:13 PM
Marlene Dietrich?
 
2014-01-20 12:56:50 AM
Well, I guess that would be GERMANY, subby. It didn't exist as a nation until 1871.
 
2014-01-20 01:52:09 AM
The Schlieffen Plan, which worked so well in WWI.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
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