Fark It: Iran was like this before the Ayatollah.
jaylectricity: This could never happen in America.
hubiestubert: Iran. Iraq. Afghanistan. All of these countries have legitimate beefs with US foreign policy, and the meddling in their affairs. Iran was one of the most progressive democracies in the Middle East before the US, Great Britain and BP helped engineer a return of the Shah. Iraq wasn't as progressive, but was on track, until it ran afoul of US interests. Afghanistan had its issues, but between the Soviets and the American interest in their nation, and our backing folks with a LOT of munitions, with NO assistance once they ousted the Soviets, yeah, the Taliban went to work on whipping things into shape as they saw fit.The anger in these countries isn't about our freedoms. It isn't about our faith. It isn't about Israel even--though in part, keeping these nations rife with internal struggles and under the thumb of theocrats without much interest in actually building or educating their people in a modern sense IS in Israel's interests--it's about actions. Actions that have impacted their nations fair severely.Until we understand this, we aren't going to make any headway. At some point, WE need to apologize and try to set things right. Not by imposing MOAR sanctions, not by demanding compliant leadership, not by tearing down their governments, but by helping them achieve their own goals, and help them back into the circle of nations, and not just by shipping oil out, or letting contractors in.These nations are the way they are today, because of things we did. To them. Years ago. Direct actions. Actions through intermediaries to give us "deniability." Actions that set their nations back generations. We did this, and the anger is real, and it is even justified.Does this mean that the support of terrorism is just? Nope. But it is understandable. Like Chris Rock said, "you gotta look at OJ's situation. He's paying $25,000 a month in alimony, got another man driving around in his car and f*cking his wife in a house he's still paying the mortgage on. Now I'm not saying he ...
Lsherm: So appeasement? That's your answer?I agree we've created a rabid dog in multiple points the world over, but letting it run free isn't a solution. Caging it, paying off its offspring with food and then killing the older generation is the only thing that's going to let us move forward.If you let the offended run things, they're correctly going to bite that which attacked them. That dog has to be put down, but the next generation can learn that there's good to be had by cooperating.
hubiestubert: It's interesting that your thought of accepting responsibility is "appeasement." It says a bit more about your own thinking.
Lsherm: hubiestubert: It's interesting that your thought of accepting responsibility is "appeasement." It says a bit more about your own thinking.Accepting responsibility isn't appeasement. What I find interesting about YOUR line of thought is that you think you can negotiate with a monster you created. You can't. You can negotiate with the next generation and that REQUIRES accepting responsibility, but the horse is out of the barn for the people we are currently fighting.And we don't necessarily have to kill the current generation, since I agree that will make it worse. What we need to do is make them irrelevant by backing the next generation.
optikeye: Thanks Regan!
Bucky Katt: jaylectricity: This could never happen in America.Nope. http://open.salon.com/blog/oryoki_bowl/2013/09/29/of_prairie_muffins_ a nd_suburban_tacos_my_fermented_summer
weltallica: NOW LOOK AT AMERICA, and tell yourselves right-wing conservative religious zealots could never do that here.
jchic: When was the last time religion actually improved a country?
vudukungfu: "We will be greeted as womens liberators.
Lsherm: So appeasement? That's your answer?
Bungles: Iraq had world-leading liberal arts universities.... you know, until the US blew them up.
bigworld2000: Throughout 1978 and 1979, the communists in charge of Afghanistan tried to extend the idea of women's rights out into the countryside and set up literacy schools for rural Afghan women. This is what really freaked out the Mujahadeen and the mullahs, who attacked the schools and killed many of the students and teachers. That's when the government in Kabul called in the Soviets, who sent in their military to quell the fundamentalists at the end of December 1979."The Communists were trying to change the law of God. They wanted to destroy Islamic traditions -- to rid Afghanistan of poverty and make everyone equal. This is against the law of Islam -- God has decided who is rich and who is poor. It can't be changed by Communists. It's beyond imagination." Sahar Gul, Mullah Laghman Province (CNN Cold War: Soldiers of God, 1998)
bindlestiff2600: jchic: When was the last time religion actually improved a country?just sayinreactionary religion is often the response to the country becoming poor
Bslim: Now it's a religious paradise. Hopefully that enlightment will come to America.
bigworld2000: Throughout 1978 and 1979, the communists in charge of Afghanistan tried to extend the idea of women's rights out into the countryside and set up literacy schools for rural Afghan women. This is what really freaked out the Mujahadeen and the mullahs, who attacked the schools and killed many of the students and teachers. That's when the government in Kabul called in the Soviets, who sent in their military to quell the fundamentalists at the end of December 1979.
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