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(The Raw Story)   In an attempt to satisfy America's blood lust, two states propose death by firing squad because it's "cost effective". Pay Per View rights still to be determined   (rawstory.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, executed by firing squad, Missouri, lethal injection, gas chambers  
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7680 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jan 2014 at 9:28 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-17 11:54:33 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: People are completely inured to seeing innocent men, women and children dead on the street in ongoing war footage.  Seeing people they feel deserve to be dead instead might actually be less psychologically farked up.

And depending on the son-to-be-deceased, PPV might be quite profitable indeed.


If we are going to do that then we might have a legitimate discussion about a hunger games style tournament where the winners sentence becomes life without parole.

As far as the topic about the humanity of the death penalty. I support it in cases of extreme brutality. However the suffering of the victim is what gets someone the death penalty. It has no bearing on the method of execution. You can support the rights of the victim and support quick and painless deaths for the condemned. The two are not mutually exclusive. There is no good logical reason to make somebody suffer needlessly as it accomplishes nothing. Everybody forgets we have a justice system and not a vengeance system
 
2014-01-17 11:55:16 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: @JosephFinn - The NewYorker article on the Willingham case was debunked almost as soon as it was written.  The Beylor report does not even support the conclusions drawn from it in that sorry expose.  My respect for the New Yorker dropped a few notches after reading that garbage.  Did you know that Willingham had zero smoke inhalation and that he asked the firemen to move their equipment so he could move his car back away from the blaze so it wouldn'tscorch the paint job.... while his three children were inside burning to death?  Obviously wrongfully convicted.  The half-dozen empty bottles of charcoal lighter were just a coincidence.  Sure.

If you're not going to refute the other accusations in the wikipedia article I cited I'm just gonna assume you got nothing.

I told you anything that starts with the bullshiat Willingham innocence story is not worthy of discussion.

What if you, i dunno, ignored that and read further to other, completely unrelated cases?  Should I just cite the cited sources or are you too afraid to admit you're wrong?


You have another once from Texas besides Deluna and Willingham?  I granted you Deluna, did you miss that?
 
2014-01-17 11:56:15 PM  
If I had to pick a common execution method for myself: Long drop hanging

If I got to pick a common execution method for someone that killed someone I know: gas chamber

If I had to pick ANY execution for myself : farked to death by endless supply of hot nymphos

If I got to pick ANY execution for someone that killed somone I know: me cuffing thier wrists to ankles and ass raping the farker till the bastage bleeds to death from it. Bite the pillow Im going in dry.
 
2014-01-17 11:56:56 PM  

TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.


Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.
 
2014-01-18 12:00:31 AM  

theorellior: chasd00: Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.

Yeah, Severian did seem to go off the deep end for a while.


Was it the executions, or was it the inadvertent miracles and/or eating the flesh and memories of the woman whose torture he ended prematurely?

/haven't read that in decades
 
2014-01-18 12:00:37 AM  
Look we got a ton little crappy islands in the pacific that our protection and territory because of WWII. We can just ship them all there. We don't have to kill them but we don't have to provide for their care either. Everybody wins. Right to lifers and death penalty enthusiasts. Certain death island.
 
2014-01-18 12:00:45 AM  

TheWhoppah: Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: @JosephFinn - The NewYorker article on the Willingham case was debunked almost as soon as it was written.  The Beylor report does not even support the conclusions drawn from it in that sorry expose.  My respect for the New Yorker dropped a few notches after reading that garbage.  Did you know that Willingham had zero smoke inhalation and that he asked the firemen to move their equipment so he could move his car back away from the blaze so it wouldn'tscorch the paint job.... while his three children were inside burning to death?  Obviously wrongfully convicted.  The half-dozen empty bottles of charcoal lighter were just a coincidence.  Sure.

If you're not going to refute the other accusations in the wikipedia article I cited I'm just gonna assume you got nothing.

I told you anything that starts with the bullshiat Willingham innocence story is not worthy of discussion.

What if you, i dunno, ignored that and read further to other, completely unrelated cases?  Should I just cite the cited sources or are you too afraid to admit you're wrong?

You have another once from Texas besides Deluna and Willingham?  I granted you Deluna, did you miss that?


I did not see the Deluna reference and I apologize for that, I retract my previous accusations.
 
2014-01-18 12:01:29 AM  
I don't see what the big deal is. Just this morning I read an article about how some scum-fark took 20-something minutes to die and how various human-rights groups were pissing and moaning about "cruel and unusual punishment" (this guy was condemned for raping and murdering a pregnant newly-wed back in 1989, by the way). Anyway, a bullet to the brain is about as humane (not to mention fool-proof) as it gets. Given the choice, that's how *I* would want to be executed. The only problem I forsee with instituting death-by-firing-squad as the norm, would be reliably securing willing firing-squads.
 
2014-01-18 12:03:02 AM  

jso2897: TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.

Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.


The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.
 
2014-01-18 12:03:43 AM  
(continued)Of course, you could always do the one-bullet-is-a-blank thing... That way nobody on said firing squad would know for sure that they were actually responsible for the execution. I imagine this would probably go a long way with alleviating any feelings of guilt the executioners might grapple with.
 
2014-01-18 12:04:12 AM  

jso2897: TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.

Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.


I heard an interview on the radio today with the family of a rapist and murderer who was executed by lethal injection. Things didn't go as planned and he suffered for 20 minutes. I couldn't really find much sympathy.
 
2014-01-18 12:04:19 AM  

AbortionsForAll: I don't see what the big deal is. Just this morning I read an article about how some scum-fark took 20-something minutes to die and how various human-rights groups were pissing and moaning about "cruel and unusual punishment" (this guy was condemned for raping and murdering a pregnant newly-wed back in 1989, by the way). Anyway, a bullet to the brain is about as humane (not to mention fool-proof) as it gets. Given the choice, that's how *I* would want to be executed. The only problem I forsee with instituting death-by-firing-squad as the norm, would be reliably securing willing firing-squads.


Just have every caveman in This thread demanding unnecessary torture do it people who want the man to suffer should be forced to do it themselves instead of playing ITG behind a computer screen
 
2014-01-18 12:05:31 AM  

AbortionsForAll: (continued)Of course, you could always do the one-bullet-is-a-blank thing... That way nobody on said firing squad would know for sure that they were actually responsible for the execution. I imagine this would probably go a long way with alleviating any feelings of guilt the executioners might grapple with.


I disagree if you sign up for the firing squad you should have that guilt with you. It's easy to demand suffering from behind a computer screen
 
2014-01-18 12:05:41 AM  

Salmon: Isn't ammo expensive?


Thanks Obama
 
2014-01-18 12:06:28 AM  

TheWhoppah: jso2897: TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.

Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.

The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.


Are you under the impression that I'm arguing with you? You already submitted the argument for revenge, and I already accepted it. You made the best and only argument for revenge that can be made the first time - you needn't reiterate or elaborate upon it.
 
2014-01-18 12:09:05 AM  

jso2897: TheWhoppah: jso2897: TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.

Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.

The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.

Are you under the impression that I'm arguing with you? You already submitted the argument for revenge, and I already accepted it. You made the best and only argument for revenge that can be made the first time - you needn't reiterate or elaborate upon it.


No, I was on a roll.  This is a human rights issue damnit!  We demand the right to execute killers.  Even babies less than 1 year old understand revenge.  It is fundamental to the human condition!
 
2014-01-18 12:10:08 AM  

Churchill2004: acohn: fusillade762: I've never understood why they don't just kill them with a big honking shot of morphine...

Or an insulin overdose.

As a Type I diabetic, let me just say this is one of the most cruel, painful deaths I can imagine.


I thought it just knocked you out? I saw a Law & Order episode once...
 
2014-01-18 12:10:32 AM  

Warlordtrooper: AbortionsForAll: I don't see what the big deal is. Just this morning I read an article about how some scum-fark took 20-something minutes to die and how various human-rights groups were pissing and moaning about "cruel and unusual punishment" (this guy was condemned for raping and murdering a pregnant newly-wed back in 1989, by the way). Anyway, a bullet to the brain is about as humane (not to mention fool-proof) as it gets. Given the choice, that's how *I* would want to be executed. The only problem I forsee with instituting death-by-firing-squad as the norm, would be reliably securing willing firing-squads.

Just have every caveman in This thread demanding unnecessary torture do it people who want the man to suffer should be forced to do it themselves instead of playing ITG behind a computer screen


Hence my proposal that executions be public, televised, and performed by citizen-executioners who are selected by draft. The only way out would be claiming conscientious objector status. Any citizen who supported the DP could live with the knowledge that someday he or she might get to be the lucky citizen who trips that trapdoor.
 
2014-01-18 12:10:57 AM  

jso2897: TheWhoppah: jso2897: TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.

Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.

The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.

Are you under the impression that I'm arguing with you? You already submitted the argument for revenge, and I already accepted it. You made the best and only argument for revenge that can be made the first time - you needn't reiterate or elaborate upon it.


I think he was just adding upon your point, not arguing.

"Justice" is a very subjective term.  Should the killer suffer the same method of death as the killed? That's a very difficult question that has thousands of answers.

I don't disagree with you necessarily, just that it's a very controversial topic that can be debated until the world ends.
 
2014-01-18 12:11:35 AM  
If nobody else has claimed it...i would like to be executed by marijuana OD, my crazy uncle says it could happen!
 
2014-01-18 12:12:28 AM  
Oldiron_79:

If I got to pick ANY execution for someone that killed somone I know: me cuffing thier wrists to ankles and ass raping the farker till the bastage bleeds to death from it. Bite the pillow Im going in dry.

This isn't really about the Capital Punishment issue is it..
 
2014-01-18 12:12:35 AM  

TheWhoppah: jso2897: TheWhoppah: jso2897: TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.

Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.

The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.

Are you under the impression that I'm arguing with you? You already submitted the argument for revenge, and I already accepted it. You made the best and only argument for revenge that can be made the first time - you needn't reiterate or elaborate upon it.

No, I was on a roll.  This is a human rights issue damnit!  We demand the right to execute killers.  Even babies less than 1 year old understand revenge.  It is fundamental to the human condition!


A roll? Well, never mind, then. Carry on! :D
 
2014-01-18 12:13:51 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: TheWhoppah: jso2897: TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.

Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.

The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.

Are you under the impression that I'm arguing with you? You already submitted the argument for revenge, and I already accepted it. You made the best and only argument for revenge that can be made the first time - you needn't reiterate or elaborate upon it.

I think he was just adding upon your point, not arguing.

"Justice" is a very subjective term.  Should the killer suffer the same method of death as the killed? That's a very difficult question that has thousands of answers.

I don't disagree with you necessarily, just that it's a very controversial topic that can be debated until the world e ...


That was addressed to Whoppah. i know you don't think I'm arguing with you.
 
2014-01-18 12:14:35 AM  

whatshisname: I heard an interview on the radio today with the family of a rapist and murderer who was executed by lethal injection. Things didn't go as planned and he suffered for 20 minutes. I couldn't really find much sympathy.


Another example of the anti-death-penalty activists controlling the message.  There is no way that guy "suffered for 20 minutes" on a massive overdose of hydromorphone.  That isn't even possible.  His body made some Teri Schivo noise but that is not suffering.  Plus they first gave him a metric asston of Versed (midazolam) so he was out light a light within seconds.
 
2014-01-18 12:15:01 AM  
Warlordtrooper: You're trying awfully hard to put words into other people's mouths. I, at least, was specifically talking about *avoiding* "unnecessary suffering". We're talking methods for humanely (without pain) executing people who have been convicted of society's most heinously unforgivable crimes. I'm not gonna sit here and try to change the mind of an ultra-liberal bleeding-heart who doesn't think that brutal rapists and murderers warrant execution, but I will step in (in my defense) when someone is twisting my statements in order to help his own sissy agenda. Wouldn't it be nice if you or someone you loved was brutally torture-farked then murdered? I'd love to see what you think about capital punishment then.As for the avoiding-guilt for the firing-squad thing... We could always set up a robotic/automatic rig to pull the trigger instead. Would that make you happy? Afterall, with a computerized & automatic targeting system, we could be absolutely sure that the correct area of the brain is instantly destroyed with zero margin of error (or close enough that it doesn't matter).
 
2014-01-18 12:15:05 AM  

jso2897: Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: TheWhoppah: jso2897: TheWhoppah: Gyrfalcon: in capital cases, it is not about deterrence, costs, or benefit to society; it's about retribution for the families of the victims.

As it should be.  Vengeance is the foundation of justice.  Its about the survivors and its about showing our collective disgust with the killers.

Now there you go. I like people when they're honest.
And I think we should go back to doing capital punishment the right way, that those people might truly get the revenge they crave. Let's drop all this "decorum" crap and give them their revenge.
They need to hear twanging ropes and snapping necks. They need to see protruding tongues and bulging eyeballs. They need to smell fresh shiat and piss. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.
I'm all about revenge.

The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.

Are you under the impression that I'm arguing with you? You already submitted the argument for revenge, and I already accepted it. You made the best and only argument for revenge that can be made the first time - you needn't reiterate or elaborate upon it.

I think he was just adding upon your point, not arguing.

"Justice" is a very subjective term.  Should the killer suffer the same method of death as the killed? That's a very difficult question that has thousands of answers.

I don't disagree with you necessarily, just that it's a very controversial topic that can be d ...


Hmph, WELL FINE!
 
2014-01-18 12:15:34 AM  

tonguedepressor: Oldiron_79:

If I got to pick ANY execution for someone that killed somone I know: me cuffing thier wrists to ankles and ass raping the farker till the bastage bleeds to death from it. Bite the pillow Im going in dry.

This isn't really about the Capital Punishment issue is it..


He likes dry ass rape?
 
2014-01-18 12:17:10 AM  
Hmmmm, I have the rope, now I just need to find a really tall tree....
 
2014-01-18 12:17:46 AM  
TheWhoppah:
The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.

you know, that's an interesting take on it. for what it's worth, the biggest thing I have against the death penalty is the general incompetence of our professional justice system. maybe we could have a special class of guilty, like caught on camera showing ID with grandma confirmation murder, and then we just defenestrate the SOB.
 
2014-01-18 12:19:26 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: tonguedepressor: Oldiron_79:

If I got to pick ANY execution for someone that killed somone I know: me cuffing thier wrists to ankles and ass raping the farker till the bastage bleeds to death from it. Bite the pillow Im going in dry.

This isn't really about the Capital Punishment issue is it..

He likes dry ass rape?


Bring out the Gimp
 
2014-01-18 12:19:56 AM  
Medical experiments. Yup. Replace mice with murderers. Those that survive get their sentence reduced to life.
 
2014-01-18 12:20:17 AM  

Robin Hoodie: TheWhoppah:
The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.

you know, that's an interesting take on it. for what it's worth, the biggest thing I have against the death penalty is the general incompetence of our professional justice system. maybe we could have a special class of guilty, like caught on camera showing ID with grandma confirmation murder, and then we just defenestrate the SOB.


The burden of proof should be Beyond Any Doubt for death penalty cases.
 
2014-01-18 12:20:30 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: @JosephFinn - The NewYorker article on the Willingham case was debunked almost as soon as it was written.  The Beylor report does not even support the conclusions drawn from it in that sorry expose.  My respect for the New Yorker dropped a few notches after reading that garbage.  Did you know that Willingham had zero smoke inhalation and that he asked the firemen to move their equipment so he could move his car back away from the blaze so it wouldn'tscorch the paint job.... while his three children were inside burning to death?  Obviously wrongfully convicted.  The half-dozen empty bottles of charcoal lighter were just a coincidence.  Sure.

If you're not going to refute the other accusations in the wikipedia article I cited I'm just gonna assume you got nothing.

I told you anything that starts with the bullshiat Willingham innocence story is not worthy of discussion.

What if you, i dunno, ignored that and read further to other, completely unrelated cases?  Should I just cite the cited sources or are you too afraid to admit you're wrong?


Note how TheWhoppah never cites any actual articles, studies or evidence.  Says the New Yorker article was "refuted" but doesn't cite anything.  Says the Beyler (that's Dr. Craig Beyler, not "Beylor") report does not support the conclusions, but does not cite any evidence against it.  Basically, it's just repeating the bad science that was used to murder Willingham.
 
2014-01-18 12:21:50 AM  

fusillade762: I've never understood why they don't just kill them with a big honking shot of morphine...


1. Let's fund terrorists/terrorist states!
2. Morphine is a hellova good time to waste on "people" who don't deserve it, having had it myself.

You can do painful without cruel and unusual. And should.
 
2014-01-18 12:22:58 AM  
I just want to say... Almost Everybody Poops... I love your nick. It's great. I hope one day you can find it in your heart to impregnate me so that I might bear your offspring!
 
2014-01-18 12:23:30 AM  

AbortionsForAll: I, at least, was specifically talking about *avoiding* "unnecessary suffering". We're talking methods for humanely (without pain) executing people who have been convicted of society's most heinously unforgivable crimes.


Why should it be pain free?  If we really believe the dude did something so heinously unforgivable that he must be executed shouldn't it hurt?  Seems like making it pain-free means we don't trust that we're killing the right fella... and in that case we shouldn't be killing him at all, even painlessly.
 
2014-01-18 12:25:00 AM  

TheWhoppah: gfid: TheWhoppah: So, even if you ignore the half-dozen empty bottles of lighter fluid and the neighbors that reported seeing him outside acting funny peeking in the windows and doors BEFORE any smoke came out of the house... even if you ignore the testimony of the fire investigators that spent 3 days going through the rubble.  Even if you take Willingham's explanation as 100% gospel truth... then he just walked out and left his three kids to die in a fire without even trying to save them... one of whom was in the same room with him and alerted him to the smoke.  The jury obviously didn't believe him and neither should you... but even if you do and you are right .... well I still think he was a monster who deserved a lot worse than lethal injection.  Oh, and those fire reports were not debunked exactly.  They found almost two dozen "clues of arson" that, at the time, it was believed that those clues ONLY appeared in arson fires.  We now know that some of them can sometimes appear in non-arson fires too.  Still, there was plenty of forensic evidence to support the arson conviction even if some of those clues were only 90% likely causes instead of 100%.  What are the chances of over dozen 10% chances all going that way?  The prosecution theory was that he killed his three kids to spite his wife.  His last words were to her, "fark You, biatch!"

I'm not as sure about that case as you are.  I think it was Frontline that I watched (can't remember for sure).  There were some serious questions raised and that fire investigator might not have been as smart as he claimed to be.

I remain unconvinced of his guilt.  I'm not convinced he's not guilty, but that's a far cry from being ready to execute someone.

I'm not sure when our court system changed from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to " plenty of forensic evidence".

There was a Frontline story and it was no better than Fox News.  Nobody tunes in to a story with a headline like "Guilty Man Punished" so if you want real rating ...


I'm still not seeing any actual sources.  I didn't sit on the jury or hear all the evidence, but the mere fact that questionable evidence was used in the prosecution is a problem in my opinion.
 
2014-01-18 12:25:06 AM  
TheWhoppah: Well personally, I'm all for torturing certain brutal inhuman monsters straight to death, but let's be realistic... Most women won't go for that shiat (even the ones that are for capital punishment in general).
 
2014-01-18 12:26:31 AM  
And the whole pain-free angle has nothing to do with doubt as to wether the correct party is being punished. It has to do with the fact that innocent people might not necessarily get off on torturing someone (even if they deserve it). You're reaching.
 
2014-01-18 12:26:40 AM  
Forget the death penalty AND life imprisonment.  We need to reinstate exile.  We need a new Australia to send them to.

"Oh, you want to murder everyone you see?  That's fine, but we have some rules here, so you'll have to take that somewhere else.  Goodbye."
 
2014-01-18 12:27:28 AM  

fusillade762: Churchill2004: acohn: fusillade762: I've never understood why they don't just kill them with a big honking shot of morphine...

Or an insulin overdose.

As a Type I diabetic, let me just say this is one of the most cruel, painful deaths I can imagine.

I thought it just knocked you out? I saw a Law & Order episode once...


Hypoglycemia is extremely uncomfortable. If you ever see such a person (either a diabetic or just hypoglycemic) cramming chocolate bars or chugging a sugary soda, that's why. It's to get rid of that feeling ASAP. And that's at manageable, diabetic levels, where a low would be in the range of a blood glucose reading of 40-70 (normal is 80 to 120) If you want to execute somebody, Law & Order style (I saw that episode, too), you're talking about effectively lowering their blood sugar to zero. In other words, every single cell in your body would be starving for energy, as you likely convulsed violently. It's like asphyxiation for the entire body. You'd eventually lose consciousness, but it's not at all a painless manner of death or something you could simply sleep through unless otherwise sedated.
 
2014-01-18 12:27:29 AM  
Works for me.

So long as never a soul is wrongly sent back to its maker.
 
2014-01-18 12:29:25 AM  
www.horrorphile.net
Approves.
 
2014-01-18 12:30:25 AM  

JosephFinn: Note how TheWhoppah never cites any actual articles, studies or evidence.  Says the New Yorker article was "refuted" but doesn't cite anything.  Says the Beyler (that's Dr. Craig Beyler, not "Beylor") report does not support the conclusions, but does not cite any evidence against it.  Basically, it's just repeating the bad science that was used to murder Willingham.


Just read the Beylor report for yourself instead of taking anyone's word about it.  It doesn't show ANY EVIDENCE that the fire was not arson.  All Beyler did was look at the old photos, read the official report, and point out that some clues that, at the time, were believed to only happen in arson fires are now known to happen (uncommonly) in non-arson fires.  The report doesn't even refute all of the forensic evidence, only some of it.  Baylor didn't even bother to interview the actual fire marshal.  The report was bought and paid for by anti-death penalty advocates.  Beyler is a whore of the courts, an expert that will testify for whichever side is paying his bills.
 
2014-01-18 12:30:44 AM  

moeburn: We need a new Australia to send them to.


Why? We already have the regular one.
 
2014-01-18 12:31:39 AM  

TheWhoppah: Robin Hoodie: TheWhoppah:
The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  We cede that right to the government because primate amateur revenge is not uniform and prone to horrible mistakes.  The government uses professional police, judges, jailors and executioners that, by law, must not have any personal stake in the incident as victims or witnesses, and none of their family can be involved either.  We trade our natural born right to seek revenge for professional grade justice.  Any justice system that fails to execute killers has failed in its most fundamental duty... unless it is a justice system for pussies.

you know, that's an interesting take on it. for what it's worth, the biggest thing I have against the death penalty is the general incompetence of our professional justice system. maybe we could have a special class of guilty, like caught on camera showing ID with grandma confirmation murder, and then we just defenestrate the SOB.

The burden of proof should be Beyond Any Doubt for death penalty cases.


I don't think our system of justice can be required to demand that rigorous a burden, just as a technical matter of law.
"Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the standard our system uses in criminal matters, and I'm not sure yiou could require a higher one exclusively in only capital cases.
 
2014-01-18 12:33:11 AM  

doglover: What's wrong with firing squads?

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd pick firing squad over lethal injection. And above either of those, I'd go for decapitation by sword. Sure it's a bit messier for the custodial staff, but who cares about them? They can just hose it all off now. This isn't the middle ages. We have plumbing.


Ironically, the least painful ways to kill someone are; hanging, guillotine, and firing squad.  However, since these are also the most gruesome to watch, despite being near instantaneous,  we as a society prefer, slower, more pleasant to watch ways of killing someone.  That way those doing the killing can feel better about themselves, while the accused spends his last moments on earth in a whole lot of silent pain.
 
2014-01-18 12:36:49 AM  

TheWhoppah: It doesn't show ANY EVIDENCE that the fire was not arson.


Usually it's up to the prosecution to show ANY EVIDENCE that a crime was committed.  It's not supposed to be up to the defense to prove innocence.
 
2014-01-18 12:37:00 AM  

TheWhoppah: JosephFinn: Note how TheWhoppah never cites any actual articles, studies or evidence.  Says the New Yorker article was "refuted" but doesn't cite anything.  Says the Beyler (that's Dr. Craig Beyler, not "Beylor") report does not support the conclusions, but does not cite any evidence against it.  Basically, it's just repeating the bad science that was used to murder Willingham.

Just read the Beylor report for yourself instead of taking anyone's word about it.  It doesn't show ANY EVIDENCE that the fire was not arson.  All Beyler did was look at the old photos, read the official report, and point out that some clues that, at the time, were believed to only happen in arson fires are now known to happen (uncommonly) in non-arson fires.  The report doesn't even refute all of the forensic evidence, only some of it.  Baylor didn't even bother to interview the actual fire marshal.  The report was bought and paid for by anti-death penalty advocates.  Beyler is a whore of the courts, an expert that will testify for whichever side is paying his bills.


Wow. The mental gymnastics are strong with this one.
Just reading what you wrote lends reasonable doubt to the state's case that it was arson that caused the fire...you said yourself that there were clues used at trial that have since been proven to not be associated with arson fires. That right there is reasonable doubt.

Are you the discredited fire marshal in question by chance?
 
2014-01-18 12:39:19 AM  

JosephFinn: Note how TheWhoppah never cites any actual articles, studies or evidence. Says the New Yorker article was "refuted" but doesn't cite anything. Says the Beyler (that's Dr. Craig Beyler, not "Beylor") report does not support the conclusions, but does not cite any evidence against it. Basically, it's just repeating the bad science that was used to murder Willingham.


Saying, "the Beylor report" is a pretty common way to discuss something attached to someone; the Warren Commission, the Brady bill, etc. Nothing wrong there, and no need to whinge because he didn't use the man's full name and courtesy title.
 
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