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(The Raw Story)   In an attempt to satisfy America's blood lust, two states propose death by firing squad because it's "cost effective". Pay Per View rights still to be determined   (rawstory.com) divider line 569
    More: Scary, executed by firing squad, Missouri, lethal injection, gas chambers  
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7619 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jan 2014 at 9:28 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-17 10:27:53 PM

iq_in_binary: DubtodaIll: Almost Everybody Poops: DubtodaIll: GrailOfThunder: bbfreak: chasd00: Iirc firing squads went away out of concern for the mental health of the squad not the condemned. Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.

First let me say that I am strictly against the death penalty, but there is absolutely no reason why you need human executioners so to speak. Or at least someone who actually pulls a trigger. Its 2014, and a robotic gun would be a fairly easy to engineer. Accurate, no mental health issues to address and I'd imagine it'd be more cost effective since robots don't need a health plan. Just a thought.

Someone still has to push the button on the robot, though. Whoever pushes that button is still "responsible" for being the executioner.

Why bother passing the buck? There are plenty if people who would gladly take tha job.

Because sometimes people don't realize the consequences of their actions until much later.  IIRC there was an article awhile back where a drone operator was diagnosed with PTSD after he was told he had over 1500 confirmed kills.

Well life ain't all lollipops and it's a waste of time I bother telling people they can't choose to do something if they want to do it and it's something that needs doing anyway. Hardship is not tradgedy, it's life.

And preventing such crap from happening is how we progress as a society.

Read the Ender series again, how did that turn out for Ender?


You really think there's anything we can ever do to escape from the darkest parts of our nature? Best we can do it seek justice and balance. And yes, taking the life of someone who has taken a life in cold blood is balance.
 
2014-01-17 10:27:58 PM

GrailOfThunder: TheWhoppah: Toss 'em out of an airplane with no parachute.  Death would come quickly so there wouldn't be a lot of pain but there would be a couple of minutes of mental anguish on the way down.

People have lived through that.  What do you do then, scrape up what's left, take them back up and toss 'em out again?


Or just leave them to die of exposure.  They prolly ain't walkin' too far.
 
2014-01-17 10:28:37 PM
static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-01-17 10:28:51 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: doglover: jso2897: Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.

No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?

Not really. The Romans were WAY into public executions, and they were so horrible 2000 years later people still worship a guy who got a relatively unremarkable one as the son of god for being stoic about it. Rome still had criminals.

The death penalty isn't really about deterrent or revenge or anything like that. Ideally it's because the person whom you are inhuming has done something that cannot be forgiven and cannot be reformed. Like a rabid dog, you put them down to protect everyone else as opposed to some kind of petty hate for the dog itself.

That's why you execute people as quickly and cleanly as possible, give them a last meal, and generally conduct yourself with decorum and composure during the whole thing. Eddard Stark is a perfect example of how an executioner should behave and why.

Don't mean shiat to me. If you're killing people, you're killing people. "Decorum" has nothing to do with it.
Of course, I guess we all have to pretend whatever helps us sleep at night.
On the other hand, if yiou don't belive in deterrence, then I guess it doesn't matter how you do it.
I certainl;y don't care.

You'd make a perfect Army grunt.


You'd make a perfect hat-check clerk at an ice rink.
 
2014-01-17 10:29:32 PM

King Something: Since the death penalty will never be abolished in the US, and since the only execution methods which are currently or will ever be available are specifically designed to be neither quick nor painless, why not just have death row inmates be burned at the stake?

I guarantee the current USSC lineup would rule it (5-4, of course) to be hunky-dory since it isn't both cruel AND unusual -- it is sufficiently "usual" that there is a term for that method of execution.


But then the EPA would step in and some dickless bureaucrat would step in and the fines would be a killer.

media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-17 10:29:35 PM

TheWhoppah: jso2897: tinfoil-hat maggie : Um, no knowing how the US is well we'll just start falsely accusing people to keep up the flow of death penalty reality TV..

What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.

Name one person in Texas that was executed after being falsely accused.  It doesn't even have to be for a reality show.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/carlos-de-luna-execution-_n _1 507003.html
 
2014-01-17 10:30:44 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Benevolent Misanthrope: And depending on the son-to-be-deceased

Is that a "dog whistle" kinda thing?


Crap.  Typo.  SOON-to-be-deceased.
 
2014-01-17 10:30:44 PM

jso2897: What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.


Well the show Cops and America Most Wanted were a bit scary to me. Public executions on tv with networks trying to get you to watch their live coverage, way overboard and well Texas is a good example of why we shouldn't have a death penalty.
 
2014-01-17 10:30:53 PM

Poutine Breath: An eye for an eye, as in The Bible.


We can argue all we like, but if capital punishment is being inflicted on some man, we are inclined to say: 'It serves him right.' That is not the spirit, I believe, in which legislation is enacted. If in this present age we were to go back to the old time of 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,' there would be very few hon. gentlemen in this House who would not, metaphorically speaking, be blind and toothless. - Mr. Graham, Canadian House of Parliament 1914
 
2014-01-17 10:31:07 PM

jso2897: Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: doglover: jso2897: Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.

No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?

Not really. The Romans were WAY into public executions, and they were so horrible 2000 years later people still worship a guy who got a relatively unremarkable one as the son of god for being stoic about it. Rome still had criminals.

The death penalty isn't really about deterrent or revenge or anything like that. Ideally it's because the person whom you are inhuming has done something that cannot be forgiven and cannot be reformed. Like a rabid dog, you put them down to protect everyone else as opposed to some kind of petty hate for the dog itself.

That's why you execute people as quickly and cleanly as possible, give them a last meal, and generally conduct yourself with decorum and composure during the whole thing. Eddard Stark is a perfect example of how an executioner should behave and why.

Don't mean shiat to me. If you're killing people, you're killing people. "Decorum" has nothing to do with it.
Of course, I guess we all have to pretend whatever helps us sleep at night.
On the other hand, if yiou don't belive in deterrence, then I guess it doesn't matter how you do it.
I certainl;y don't care.

You'd make a perfect Army grunt.

You'd make a perfect hat-check clerk at an ice rink.


uh... o... okay...
 
2014-01-17 10:31:43 PM
What Would Jesus Do?
 
2014-01-17 10:32:14 PM

tinfoil-hat maggie: jso2897: What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.

Well the show Cops and America Most Wanted were a bit scary to me. Public executions on tv with networks trying to get you to watch their live coverage, way overboard and well Texas is a good example of why we shouldn't have a death penalty.


Reality TV replaced public executions.
 
2014-01-17 10:33:57 PM

TheWhoppah: jso2897: tinfoil-hat maggie : Um, no knowing how the US is well we'll just start falsely accusing people to keep up the flow of death penalty reality TV..

What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.

Name one person in Texas that was executed after being falsely accused.  It doesn't even have to be for a reality show.


Not relevant. I am talking about the conscious pushing forward of executions in order to obtain political capitol and curry public favor.
We already know that if we execute people, a few innocent people will die - it is collateral damage. It's part of the package.
 
2014-01-17 10:34:13 PM

Oldiron_79: Hanging is probably the cheapest. About 6 feet of rope is what a buck maybe 2.

It was the prefered way of eleminating top Gnatzis after the war.


What kind of sticks in my craw about this whole thing is that the convicted Nazi war criminals were hanged by the best of the best executioners, giving them basically the cleanest death that can be arranged under the circumstances, but 70 years later some guy in Texas (that nobody is even sure did anything) gets a needle stuck in his arm and a dose of whatever cocktail the state managed to procure from drug companies.

I'm not a proponent of capital punishment to begin with, but it's in an incredibly farked up state in the US.
 
2014-01-17 10:35:02 PM

BlackMtnMan: Just wrap a few sticks of dynamite around their head, and light 'em off....Guarantee it would be so fast, no pain..


While we're at it, let's remove the dividing glass separating the defendant from the witnesses and put up a 'Splash Zone' sign for
the first couple of rows...

:)
 
2014-01-17 10:35:08 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: doglover: jso2897: Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.

No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?

Not really. The Romans were WAY into public executions, and they were so horrible 2000 years later people still worship a guy who got a relatively unremarkable one as the son of god for being stoic about it. Rome still had criminals.

The death penalty isn't really about deterrent or revenge or anything like that. Ideally it's because the person whom you are inhuming has done something that cannot be forgiven and cannot be reformed. Like a rabid dog, you put them down to protect everyone else as opposed to some kind of petty hate for the dog itself.

That's why you execute people as quickly and cleanly as possible, give them a last meal, and generally conduct yourself with decorum and composure during the whole thing. Eddard Stark is a perfect example of how an executioner should behave and why.

Don't mean shiat to me. If you're killing people, you're killing people. "Decorum" has nothing to do with it.
Of course, I guess we all have to pretend whatever helps us sleep at night.
On the other hand, if yiou don't belive in deterrence, then I guess it doesn't matter how you do it.
I certainl;y don't care.

You'd make a perfect Army grunt.

You'd make a perfect hat-check clerk at an ice rink.

uh... o... okay...


Made as much sense as what you said, and had as much basis in fact. :D
 
2014-01-17 10:35:17 PM
Either use nitrogen asphyxiation or dope up the condemned to the point where he doesn't know and doesn't care where he is then put him in front of a firing squad or in a guillotine.
 
2014-01-17 10:35:49 PM

DubtodaIll: And yes, taking the life of someone who has taken a life in cold blood is balance.


Strapping someone to a gurney or chair and killing them is pre-meditated murder, there's no way around it. So that is balance I guess, if we want the State to be no better than the accused.
 
2014-01-17 10:35:53 PM

BigLuca: Oldiron_79: chasd00: Iirc firing squads went away out of concern for the mental health of the squad not the condemned. Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.

Yup that was the beef with firing squads.

Long drop hangings are probably the most humane method ever devised your brain stem is severed between the skull and C1 you are out like a light switch before you even know you hit bottom. They largely went out of style because hanging was prefered method in lynchings also an improper non drop hanging where a person is choked out is not paticularly humane.

Sometimes it's hard to calculate the drop necessary or weight needed to add.  Too little and the prisoner strangles to death, too much and the head comes off.


Well that may have been an issue in the 1800s when some illitterate cleetus with no info on what was needed was winging it but there are plenty of charts on how much weight and drop are proper since like before 1900.

Hell Wiki even has the British Official table of drops including both the 1888-1913 one and the post 1913

14 stone hangee gets 5'5" on post 1913 or 8' on pre 1913

8 stone hangee gets 8' on post 1913 or 10' on pre 1913

Etc
 
2014-01-17 10:35:58 PM
If they would ever televise it then I think my favorite method of execution would be by Phalanx CIWS.
 
2014-01-17 10:36:43 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: jso2897: tinfoil-hat maggie : Um, no knowing how the US is well we'll just start falsely accusing people to keep up the flow of death penalty reality TV..

What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.

Name one person in Texas that was executed after being falsely accused.  It doesn't even have to be for a reality show.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/carlos-de-luna-execution-_n _1 507003.html


Yeah OK maybe.  Deluna is one that might have been actually innocent.  How did you get that?  Everyone always says Willingham but that bastard was guilty as sin.  Texas has instituted a bunch of reforms since DeLuna though... I doubt that could happen today.
 
2014-01-17 10:37:12 PM

jso2897: Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: doglover: jso2897: Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.

No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?

Not really. The Romans were WAY into public executions, and they were so horrible 2000 years later people still worship a guy who got a relatively unremarkable one as the son of god for being stoic about it. Rome still had criminals.

The death penalty isn't really about deterrent or revenge or anything like that. Ideally it's because the person whom you are inhuming has done something that cannot be forgiven and cannot be reformed. Like a rabid dog, you put them down to protect everyone else as opposed to some kind of petty hate for the dog itself.

That's why you execute people as quickly and cleanly as possible, give them a last meal, and generally conduct yourself with decorum and composure during the whole thing. Eddard Stark is a perfect example of how an executioner should behave and why.

Don't mean shiat to me. If you're killing people, you're killing people. "Decorum" has nothing to do with it.
Of course, I guess we all have to pretend whatever helps us sleep at night.
On the other hand, if yiou don't belive in deterrence, then I guess it doesn't matter how you do it.
I certainl;y don't care.

You'd make a perfect Army grunt.

You'd make a perfect hat-check clerk at an ice rink.

uh... o... okay...

Made as much sense as what you said, and had as much basis in fact. :D


I like you.
 
2014-01-17 10:37:40 PM

GrailOfThunder: TheWhoppah: Toss 'em out of an airplane with no parachute.  Death would come quickly so there wouldn't be a lot of pain but there would be a couple of minutes of mental anguish on the way down.

People have lived through that.  What do you do then, scrape up what's left, take them back up and toss 'em out again?


Actually, in that case the idea would be to just leave them there. The general majority of people who've fallen out of an airplane with no parachute and lived to tell the tale had been medevac'd from the landing site and taken to a hospital.

If you try to execute a prisoner this way and he survives the fall/sudden stop, then exposure to the elements, gangrene and/or hungry bears would finish the job. Or if the drop is done over the ocean and the prisoner survives the impact, then hypothermia, drowning or sharks would get the credit.

/per my earlier post that SCOTUS would give the 5-4 okay to burning at the stake, they probably would rule 9-0 that this method isn't kosher since it's both cruel and unusual
 
2014-01-17 10:38:34 PM

miss diminutive: Odoriferous Queef: miss diminutive: That Guy Jeff: then why not firing squads?

As previously mentioned, it takes a tremendous toll on the executioners. Now, if they designed robots to fire the guns, then that wouldn't be an issue.

/don't support the death penalty
//just sayin

Not trying to troll --- but why not?
Mutherfarker kills a family  member and he gets life at 10's of thousands of dollars per year!?
Kill him. Get him off the payroll. Murdering SOB

/again not trolling.

1) it's not a deterrent
2) There's a chance (and depending on the race, religion and socio-economic status of the convicted - a higher chance) of executing an innocent person
3) All the appeals and legal fees don't make execution all that cheaper than incarceration (depending on the length of time and age of the convicted, of course)
4) I don't feel the state has the right to end the life of one of its citizens

I get the emotional aspect, though. If someone murdered a member of my family or a close friend I'd want to see them dead too. Which is why I shouldn't be the one to make the decision.


What we will do is take a poll and everyone who is against the death penalty can pay for the murder's  incarnation.
All of us for the death penalty will pay for the bullet.

Problem solved.

/Game set match.
 
2014-01-17 10:38:38 PM

TheWhoppah: Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: jso2897: tinfoil-hat maggie : Um, no knowing how the US is well we'll just start falsely accusing people to keep up the flow of death penalty reality TV..

What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.

Name one person in Texas that was executed after being falsely accused.  It doesn't even have to be for a reality show.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/carlos-de-luna-execution-_n _1 507003.html

Yeah OK maybe.  Deluna is one that might have been actually innocent.  How did you get that?  Everyone always says Willingham but that bastard was guilty as sin.  Texas has instituted a bunch of reforms since DeLuna though... I doubt that could happen today.


So sad:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States
 
2014-01-17 10:38:48 PM

TheWhoppah: Toss 'em out of an airplane with no parachute.  Death would come quickly so there wouldn't be a lot of pain but there would be a couple of minutes of mental anguish on the way down.


I bet Taco Bell would be all over that as an advertiser.
 
2014-01-17 10:39:51 PM

Mugato: DubtodaIll: And yes, taking the life of someone who has taken a life in cold blood is balance.

Strapping someone to a gurney or chair and killing them is pre-meditated murder, there's no way around it. So that is balance I guess, if we want the State to be no better than the accused.


It's not a stretch that the state isn't better than the accused in a number of cases. Humans are noble when they can afford to be. We're downright nasty when we need to be, and dealing with murderers is a nasty business. I think the fact that we have large scale complex debate on the subject at all goes to show the "progression of society" that seems to be so important. It certainly is a recent development that there would be a long drawn out process to decide whether to end a murderers life or not. It's not like we're running out of people on Earth anyway.
 
2014-01-17 10:40:41 PM

doglover: jso2897: Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.

No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?

Not really. The Romans were WAY into public executions, and they were so horrible 2000 years later people still worship a guy who got a relatively unremarkable one as the son of god for being stoic about it. Rome still had criminals.

The death penalty isn't really about deterrent or revenge or anything like that. Ideally it's because the person whom you are inhuming has done something that cannot be forgiven and cannot be reformed. Like a rabid dog, you put them down to protect everyone else as opposed to some kind of petty hate for the dog itself.

That's why you execute people as quickly and cleanly as possible, give them a last meal, and generally conduct yourself with decorum and composure during the whole thing. Eddard Stark is a perfect example of how an executioner should behave and why.


I like this
 
2014-01-17 10:41:52 PM

MFAWG: I think the states should consider allowing people to bid to be on the firing squads.


Your one handed typing is impressive, but consider counseling.
 
2014-01-17 10:41:59 PM

jso2897: TheWhoppah: jso2897: tinfoil-hat maggie : Um, no knowing how the US is well we'll just start falsely accusing people to keep up the flow of death penalty reality TV..

What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.

Name one person in Texas that was executed after being falsely accused.  It doesn't even have to be for a reality show.

Not relevant. I am talking about the conscious pushing forward of executions in order to obtain political capitol and curry public favor.
We already know that if we execute people, a few innocent people will die - it is collateral damage. It's part of the package.


So you were accusing Texas without any facts to back up your accusation?  Can we get the [IRONIC] tag on your last post?  At least Everybody Poops had an answer.
 
2014-01-17 10:42:17 PM
Wow.  Bunch of big-talking state-sponsored murder nuts in this thread.
 
2014-01-17 10:42:28 PM

Poutine Breath: An eye for an eye, as in The Bible  the Code of Hammurabi.


Where do you think God got that idea from?
 
2014-01-17 10:43:25 PM

red5ish: What Would Jesus Do?


Kill them all and let his daddy sort them out?

I don't really know, I'm just making a wild guess.
 
2014-01-17 10:43:37 PM
pissnmoan: I'm generally opposed to the death penalty but I have to admit there are times when I don't oppose it.  Life without parole is far more miserable punishment than death.

Not necessarily. I have a cousin who served 30 years for 1st degree before being paroled 2 years ago, largely at the request of his brother, who now employs him. "John" hated prison, but has really struggled with life outside. If it weren't for the sex and the booze I honestly think he'd rather be back in...no job worries, no rent to make, none of the monitoring BS. Just three squares and a cot, with plenty of unstructured exercise in the yard, lots of time to play cards, read or watch TV.
 
2014-01-17 10:43:43 PM

DubtodaIll: iq_in_binary: DubtodaIll: Almost Everybody Poops: DubtodaIll: GrailOfThunder: bbfreak: chasd00: Iirc firing squads went away out of concern for the mental health of the squad not the condemned. Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.

First let me say that I am strictly against the death penalty, but there is absolutely no reason why you need human executioners so to speak. Or at least someone who actually pulls a trigger. Its 2014, and a robotic gun would be a fairly easy to engineer. Accurate, no mental health issues to address and I'd imagine it'd be more cost effective since robots don't need a health plan. Just a thought.

Someone still has to push the button on the robot, though. Whoever pushes that button is still "responsible" for being the executioner.

Why bother passing the buck? There are plenty if people who would gladly take tha job.

Because sometimes people don't realize the consequences of their actions until much later.  IIRC there was an article awhile back where a drone operator was diagnosed with PTSD after he was told he had over 1500 confirmed kills.

Well life ain't all lollipops and it's a waste of time I bother telling people they can't choose to do something if they want to do it and it's something that needs doing anyway. Hardship is not tradgedy, it's life.

And preventing such crap from happening is how we progress as a society.

Read the Ender series again, how did that turn out for Ender?

You really think there's anything we can ever do to escape from the darkest parts of our nature? Best we can do it seek justice and balance. And yes, taking the life of someone who has taken a life in cold blood is balance.


I've actually had a few successes. Several of them close relation. I got fired from my last job because of my successful lobbying for Obama. My ultimate higher ups were not happy to hear I made $400 on the election on intrade. I made them hundreds of thousands but they were happy to fire me over his winning. Laid off the whole trail of temps actually, the day before thanksgiving. Yeah, fark you all. And yet, I'm well employed now
 
2014-01-17 10:43:48 PM
Gun lust. And Missouri thinks of itself as pro-life.
 
2014-01-17 10:43:57 PM

Oldiron_79: BigLuca: Oldiron_79: chasd00: Iirc firing squads went away out of concern for the mental health of the squad not the condemned. Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.

Yup that was the beef with firing squads.

Long drop hangings are probably the most humane method ever devised your brain stem is severed between the skull and C1 you are out like a light switch before you even know you hit bottom. They largely went out of style because hanging was prefered method in lynchings also an improper non drop hanging where a person is choked out is not paticularly humane.

Sometimes it's hard to calculate the drop necessary or weight needed to add.  Too little and the prisoner strangles to death, too much and the head comes off.

Well that may have been an issue in the 1800s when some illitterate cleetus with no info on what was needed was winging it but there are plenty of charts on how much weight and drop are proper since like before 1900.

Hell Wiki even has the British Official table of drops including both the 1888-1913 one and the post 1913

14 stone hangee gets 5'5" on post 1913 or 8' on pre 1913

8 stone hangee gets 8' on post 1913 or 10' on pre 1913

Etc


If I were going to be executed, I would choose long-drop over any method I know of. Lethal injection seems to be barely disguised torure, and thee electric hair and gas are far worse. Shooting and beheading are not instantaneous.
With log-drop, death actually takes a few minutes - but uncosciousness is instantaneous if it is successful (botched, of course, any method can be horrific).
I mean, this is all based on the premise that we are going to be executing people - killing them. It's what it is, and if you don't like it, don't advocate doing it.
 
2014-01-17 10:44:04 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: So sad:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States


The basic question-does the system accurately and consistently determine which defendants "deserve" to die?-cannot be answered in the affirmative. It is not simply that this Court has allowed vague aggravating circumstances to be employed, relevant mitigating evidence to be disregarded, and vital judicial review to be blocked. The problem is that the inevitability of factual, legal, and moral error gives us a system that we know must wrongly kill some defendants, a system that fails to deliver the fair, consistent, and reliable sentences of death required by the Constitution. - Justice Blackmun, Callins v. Collins, 1994

I'm pulling these quotes from this post, which is a reply to the standard "well they did something heinous" defense of the death penalty. I'm not a lawyer, but I find this gentlemen's arguments reasonable and insightful.
 
2014-01-17 10:44:42 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: Almost Everybody Poops: TheWhoppah: jso2897: tinfoil-hat maggie : Um, no knowing how the US is well we'll just start falsely accusing people to keep up the flow of death penalty reality TV..

What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.

Name one person in Texas that was executed after being falsely accused.  It doesn't even have to be for a reality show.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/carlos-de-luna-execution-_n _1 507003.html

Yeah OK maybe.  Deluna is one that might have been actually innocent.  How did you get that?  Everyone always says Willingham but that bastard was guilty as sin.  Texas has instituted a bunch of reforms since DeLuna though... I doubt that could happen today.

So sad:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States


Yeah, thanks but any list that starts with Cameron Todd Willingham is complete bullshiat.
 
2014-01-17 10:44:49 PM

Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: Almost Everybody Poops: jso2897: doglover: jso2897: Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.

No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?

Not really. The Romans were WAY into public executions, and they were so horrible 2000 years later people still worship a guy who got a relatively unremarkable one as the son of god for being stoic about it. Rome still had criminals.

The death penalty isn't really about deterrent or revenge or anything like that. Ideally it's because the person whom you are inhuming has done something that cannot be forgiven and cannot be reformed. Like a rabid dog, you put them down to protect everyone else as opposed to some kind of petty hate for the dog itself.

That's why you execute people as quickly and cleanly as possible, give them a last meal, and generally conduct yourself with decorum and composure during the whole thing. Eddard Stark is a perfect example of how an executioner should behave and why.

Don't mean shiat to me. If you're killing people, you're killing people. "Decorum" has nothing to do with it.
Of course, I guess we all have to pretend whatever helps us sleep at night.
On the other hand, if yiou don't belive in deterrence, then I guess it doesn't matter how you do it.
I certainl;y don't care.

You'd make a perfect Army grunt.

You'd make a perfect hat-check clerk at an ice rink.

uh... o... okay...

Made as much sense as what you said, and had as much basis in fact. :D

I like you.


Let's not go crazy here.
 
2014-01-17 10:45:06 PM

costermonger: Oldiron_79: Hanging is probably the cheapest. About 6 feet of rope is what a buck maybe 2.

It was the prefered way of eleminating top Gnatzis after the war.

What kind of sticks in my craw about this whole thing is that the convicted Nazi war criminals were hanged by the best of the best executioners, giving them basically the cleanest death that can be arranged under the circumstances, but 70 years later some guy in Texas (that nobody is even sure did anything) gets a needle stuck in his arm and a dose of whatever cocktail the state managed to procure from drug companies.

I'm not a proponent of capital punishment to begin with, but it's in an incredibly farked up state in the US.


Yeah I was disappoint when the video of Saddam's execution was leaked and it was obvious that his executioner was skilled. You can hear his neck snap like a twig when he hits bottom so he never even realized he hit bottom. I was hoping a war criminal that gassed his own people would choke and do the hangmans dance
 
2014-01-17 10:45:59 PM

JRoo: White_Scarf_Syndrome: I still don't understand why breathing in pure nitrogen isn't an option.

Helium would be funnier.


I'd go out yelling "What a world!..What a world!" at the top of my shrill witchiest voice.

They'd have nightmares for years.
 
2014-01-17 10:47:13 PM

jso2897: Lethal injection seems to be barely disguised torure, and thee electric hair and gas are far worse.


holisticmindtherapies.com
 
2014-01-17 10:47:45 PM
If I had a choice, from what I have heard, I would choose firing squad or freezing to death. But that is just what I have heard. It seems those five to seven large caliber bullets really do the trick.
 
2014-01-17 10:48:18 PM

fusillade762: debug: If the inmate wants to choose death by firing squad, what's the problem?  We should kill them in whatever way they want, up to a pre-determined cost.

How much does being chased to death by naked female roller skaters cost?


You know, Coke Zero really hurts when it's snorted out the nose.
 
2014-01-17 10:48:43 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Almost Everybody Poops: So sad:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States

The basic question-does the system accurately and consistently determine which defendants "deserve" to die?-cannot be answered in the affirmative. It is not simply that this Court has allowed vague aggravating circumstances to be employed, relevant mitigating evidence to be disregarded, and vital judicial review to be blocked. The problem is that the inevitability of factual, legal, and moral error gives us a system that we know must wrongly kill some defendants, a system that fails to deliver the fair, consistent, and reliable sentences of death required by the Constitution. - Justice Blackmun, Callins v. Collins, 1994

I'm pulling these quotes from this post, which is a reply to the standard "well they did something heinous" defense of the death penalty. I'm not a lawyer, but I find this gentlemen's arguments reasonable and insightful.


I'm mostly anti-death penalty but I agree that it is up to opinion on whether or not they "deserve" it.  For example would it be better for Ted Bundy to spend life in prison on the taxpayers' dime rather than execute him? I'll read your links since you tend to have interesting and informative sources.
 
2014-01-17 10:48:48 PM
the legal system is basically a gym where wealth inequality works out.
 
2014-01-17 10:48:52 PM
I fully support the right to choose one's method of execution to the point I believe most people would choose execution absent conviction of anything, which would solve many, many problems,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLctf4o6feQ&feature=youtube_gdata_pla ye r

NSFW
 
2014-01-17 10:49:43 PM
In other words we're becoming more like China everyday and they more like us
 
2014-01-17 10:50:22 PM

TheWhoppah: jso2897: TheWhoppah: jso2897: tinfoil-hat maggie : Um, no knowing how the US is well we'll just start falsely accusing people to keep up the flow of death penalty reality TV..

What makes you think that isn't happening already? Exhibit A: Texas.

Name one person in Texas that was executed after being falsely accused.  It doesn't even have to be for a reality show.

Not relevant. I am talking about the conscious pushing forward of executions in order to obtain political capitol and curry public favor.
We already know that if we execute people, a few innocent people will die - it is collateral damage. It's part of the package.

So you were accusing Texas without any facts to back up your accusation?  Can we get the [IRONIC] tag on your last post?  At least Everybody Poops had an answer.


I don't really know what the fark you are talking about. I accused no one of anything. Tin-foil-hat maggie made some remark about executions being used as a bread and circuses type spectacle to garner favor with the populace, and I made the refernce to Texas as an example of where we might be heading in that regard. I myself never asserted that Texas has executed anybody innocent (does anyone really think they never have?) and it is not germaine or relevant to what I was saying.
Get it?
 
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