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(The Raw Story)   In an attempt to satisfy America's blood lust, two states propose death by firing squad because it's "cost effective". Pay Per View rights still to be determined   (rawstory.com) divider line 569
    More: Scary, executed by firing squad, Missouri, lethal injection, gas chambers  
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7628 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jan 2014 at 9:28 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-17 09:46:35 PM

Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.


Hanging is probably the cheapest. About 6 feet of rope is what a buck maybe 2.

It was the prefered way of eleminating top Gnatzis after the war.
 
2014-01-17 09:46:49 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: I still don't understand why breathing in pure nitrogen isn't an option.



Came here to say this.  It's cheap, painless, and won't harm anyone else if the gas chamber leaks.  When you asphyxiate from carbon dioxide your body detects it and freaks out, but other inert gasses like helium and nitrogen just make you drift away.
 
2014-01-17 09:47:44 PM
sp1.yimg.com
 
2014-01-17 09:48:07 PM

Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.


No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?
 
2014-01-17 09:48:34 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: [www.movievillains.com image 240x156]


It's getting there : /
 
2014-01-17 09:49:30 PM

untaken_name: It's a pretty effective deterrent, actually. The people who are put to death are completely deterred from ever committing another crime.


That's so clever. Never heard that one before.
 
2014-01-17 09:49:50 PM

fusillade762: I've never understood why they don't just kill them with a big honking shot of morphine...


Too simple. That's basically what we do for dogs and cats. But... yeah. We're farked up.
 
2014-01-17 09:50:00 PM
Iirc firing squads went away out of concern for the mental health of the squad not the condemned. Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.
 
2014-01-17 09:50:49 PM
Good to see the "Christian" conservatives in this country so determined to murder captives.

I propose free WWJD bracelets for people who volunteer to be on the firing squad.
 
2014-01-17 09:50:52 PM

jso2897: No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?


Actually no.  I'd have to poke around for the statistics but I recall that the biggest deterrent is perceived likelihood of being caught and punished.  Severity of punishment ranks fairly low on the list.
 
2014-01-17 09:50:57 PM
Is getting shot to death cruel? Would you want to put your sick mother down that way? Is it an unusual punishment? Oklahoma is the only state in which it is currently available as a secondary execution method.  A small number of inmates in Utah, which banned it in 2004, are grandfathered in. The federal and military systems have ended it. Against this tide, I think states seeking to re-legalize this form of execution will face Eighth Amendment challenges. Especially if many years pass since the last such execution.
 
2014-01-17 09:51:09 PM

Gyrfalcon: fusillade762: I've never understood why they don't just kill them with a big honking shot of morphine...

It takes too long.

Seriously, someone asked that question in CA a while back, and the response was essentially that it takes 30-45 minutes to kill someone painlessly via anaesthetic OD, and that's too difficult for the witnesses to sit through.


So use anesthesia to render someone unconscious/asleep, then use one of the 30,000 guillotines the government bought and is storing in Montana to behead them. They're asleep, they won't feel a thing. :)

//yes, I know it's an urban legend. :)
 
2014-01-17 09:51:42 PM
Wait a second.

Part of the problem is that they do not get the drugs, but they confiscate tons of drugs yearly.

Give them some K then a  Heroin OD.

How friggin hard is this?
 
2014-01-17 09:52:20 PM
blogs.westword.com
 
2014-01-17 09:52:48 PM

AgentPothead: The for profit prison system death penalty is disgusting and the United States should be ashamed with itself.


Why should the Justice system be involved in revenge at all? It's barbaric. And the only way it's cheaper than life imprisonment is if they remove some of the legal barriers...which would lead to more innocents being killed by the State.
 
2014-01-17 09:54:24 PM

debug: If the inmate wants to choose death by firing squad, what's the problem?  We should kill them in whatever way they want, up to a pre-determined cost.


"Son of a b***h! The bastard picked old age! It's within budget too!"
 
2014-01-17 09:54:34 PM
Why is there a choice for the prisoner? Is this some sort of fancy restaurant menu? Is death by great white shark and option?

While we are at it, isn't Nitrogen Hypoxia fairly painless?
 
2014-01-17 09:55:46 PM
Would you rather dey was pushed outta windas?

/bunker
 
2014-01-17 09:55:53 PM

chasd00: Iirc firing squads went away out of concern for the mental health of the squad not the condemned. Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.


Yup that was the beef with firing squads.

Long drop hangings are probably the most humane method ever devised your brain stem is severed between the skull and C1 you are out like a light switch before you even know you hit bottom. They largely went out of style because hanging was prefered method in lynchings also an improper non drop hanging where a person is choked out is not paticularly humane.
 
2014-01-17 09:56:56 PM

jso2897: I think we should use the most barbarous methods we can, within reason. Shooting, hanging, beheading and so on. And it should be public, and there should be TV cameras and no hoods or blinfolds on the condemned.
The people want blood? Fine, let's give it to them.
But if they don't even have the balls to behold what they demand with their own eyes - they shouldn't have it.

Also, executioners should be selected by random draft, and the penalty for refusing should be five years in the penitentiary*.
All citizens should live with the knowledge that as long as they allow that switch to exist, they may be called upon to pull it personally.
If people still want the death penalty then - fine, I'm with ya.

* That's what they used to give people for refusing the military draft.


What's wrong with the guillotine in it's day it was hailed as true equality. No mare drunk ax men missing the neck and well just build one and you don't have to pay for electricity for electric chairs or drugs for lethal injection even bullets for firing squads that lots of times miss vital areas of the criminal so they have to keep shooting.
 
2014-01-17 09:57:04 PM
Good job Missouri, now shorten the stay in jail to 5 years before sentence handed out.

Next we can give pruning sheers to gaurds to remove the testicles of rapists and child molesters.

/dna and confession or other solid evidence of murder, rape and child molestation should be required for severe penalties as these
//women rapists or child molesters can have the red hot poker treatment
///stop the bullcrap of proven guilty in court but probably actually innocent so treat all criminals as innocent victims
 
2014-01-17 09:57:19 PM

Click Click D'oh: hoodiowithtudio: Here is my problem with beheading. Its got to be incredibly painful. Think about how bad it is after you get a paper cut. I can't imagine one's brain functions last more than seconds, but those have to be incredibly painful seconds.

I took a knife in the hand once and didn't even feel a thing from the cut.  It just felt like someone had pushed a hard object against my hand.  Well, I didn't feel the cut at least until a well meaning partner declared "Oh crap, there's a knife in your hand" and pulled it out.  Felt it then.

Moral of the story:  Don't have a guy standing next to the axeman ready to tell you that your head is off.


You want Walter Shobchak there to say, "Nothing is f*cked, dude, nothing is f*cked."
 
2014-01-17 09:57:21 PM

chasd00: Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.


Yeah, Severian did seem to go off the deep end for a while.
 
2014-01-17 09:57:22 PM
Hey, Friendo--stand still.  Do it "No Country For Old Men" style.  Pop...........done.  One CO2 canister, one gas hose, and one of those thingys they use to kill cattle.

I'm generally opposed to the death penalty but I have to admit there are times when I don't oppose it.  Life without parole is far more miserable punishment than death.
 
2014-01-17 09:58:00 PM
It's funny to me when someone who's fiscally conservative is pro-war, pro-death penalty, and against letting people (especially the government) decide when to pull the plug on the brain dead. The first two are fiscally wasteful ways to kill someone, the last is a fiscally wasteful way to keep them alive.
 
2014-01-17 09:58:33 PM

doglover: What's wrong with firing squads?

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd pick firing squad over lethal injection. And above either of those, I'd go for decapitation by sword. Sure it's a bit messier for the custodial staff, but who cares about them? They can just hose it all off now. This isn't the middle ages. We have plumbing.


I actually do think we should let people choose the method of their execution.  I'd probably go for lethal injection over firing squad, but only if I could get them to agree not to strap me down to a table.  Couldn't I just sit in a nice LA-Z-Boy recliner and watch porn while they inject me?

What's amazing to me is that we're perfectly fine with euthanizing pets but still think somehow we can't do lethal injection to criminals humanely.

I think I said that a day or two ago in another thread.  Fark that.  If some mass murderer suffers for about 10 minutes while he is executed I'm not too worried about it.  I'm much more concerned that pets that are euthanized don't suffer.

If it's good enough for your cat or your dog it's good enough for a murderer.
 
2014-01-17 09:59:14 PM

hoodiowithtudio: Here is my problem with beheading. Its got to be incredibly painful. Think about how bad it is after you get a paper cut. I can't imagine one's brain functions last more than seconds, but those have to be incredibly painful seconds.


memecrunch.com


Execution should be incredibly painful because we shouldn't be executing anyone that doesn't deserve an incredibly painful death.  Making it painless just would just serve to assuage our collective guilt if we execute the wrong person.  Screw that!  If we execute the wrong person we should feel horrible about it.  We should be AFRAID of executing the wrong person.  We should be DAMN SURE we got the right guy before we execute him and the way to do that is to make it a horrible painful spectacle... like a piranha tank!
 
2014-01-17 09:59:24 PM

Mercutio74: jso2897: No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?

Actually no.  I'd have to poke around for the statistics but I recall that the biggest deterrent is perceived likelihood of being caught and punished.  Severity of punishment ranks fairly low on the list.


Perhaps - but, right or wrong,  most death penalty advocates don't believe that. They believe that a fear of death serves as a deterrent to a potential criminal.
And, assuming that the death penaly DOES deter crime (if only for the sake of argument) one would, I think, have to concede that vulgar, brutal, public executions would serve that purpose far better than sterile, bowdlerized, private ones.
If we are going to do this thing, lets do it up right. Go big or go home, I always say.
 
2014-01-17 09:59:38 PM

jso2897: I think we should use the most barbarous methods we can, within reason. Shooting, hanging, beheading and so on. And it should be public, and there should be TV cameras and no hoods or blinfolds on the condemned.
The people want blood? Fine, let's give it to them.
But if they don't even have the balls to behold what they demand with their own eyes - they shouldn't have it.

Also, executioners should be selected by random draft, and the penalty for refusing should be five years in the penitentiary*.
All citizens should live with the knowledge that as long as they allow that switch to exist, they may be called upon to pull it personally.
If people still want the death penalty then - fine, I'm with ya.

* That's what they used to give people for refusing the military draft.


I think they should lose their citizenship.  Would you like to know more?
 
2014-01-17 10:00:25 PM

jso2897: Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.

No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?


Not really. The Romans were WAY into public executions, and they were so horrible 2000 years later people still worship a guy who got a relatively unremarkable one as the son of god for being stoic about it. Rome still had criminals.

The death penalty isn't really about deterrent or revenge or anything like that. Ideally it's because the person whom you are inhuming has done something that cannot be forgiven and cannot be reformed. Like a rabid dog, you put them down to protect everyone else as opposed to some kind of petty hate for the dog itself.

That's why you execute people as quickly and cleanly as possible, give them a last meal, and generally conduct yourself with decorum and composure during the whole thing. Eddard Stark is a perfect example of how an executioner should behave and why.
 
2014-01-17 10:01:38 PM

Oldiron_79: chasd00: Iirc firing squads went away out of concern for the mental health of the squad not the condemned. Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.

Yup that was the beef with firing squads.

Long drop hangings are probably the most humane method ever devised your brain stem is severed between the skull and C1 you are out like a light switch before you even know you hit bottom. They largely went out of style because hanging was prefered method in lynchings also an improper non drop hanging where a person is choked out is not paticularly humane.


Sometimes it's hard to calculate the drop necessary or weight needed to add.  Too little and the prisoner strangles to death, too much and the head comes off.
 
2014-01-17 10:02:14 PM

doglover: What's wrong with firing squads?

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd pick firing squad over lethal injection. And above either of those, I'd go for decapitation by sword. Sure it's a bit messier for the custodial staff, but who cares about them? They can just hose it all off now. This isn't the middle ages. We have plumbing.


^^This.  We kill people the same way we put down dogs now.  We can make pretty sure that a person is killed practically instantaneously with a well-placed bullet or a strong rope.  I'm personally not a supporter of capital punishment, but if we're going to have it, then for fark sake let's not botch it.
 
2014-01-17 10:02:25 PM

gfid: If it's good enough for your cat or your dog it's good enough for a murderer.


good enough for a person convicted of murder who was too poor to afford anything but a public defender.
 
2014-01-17 10:02:43 PM
If you start from the assumption that the criminal justice system actually works and the state has a right to kill citizens, then why not firing squads? Cheap and effective. Even easier would be the "kneel next to your grave, gun to the back of the head" method. There's nothing wrong with firing squads that isn't wrong with the entire concept of imperfect (to say it generously) governments killing people.
 
2014-01-17 10:03:31 PM

TheWhoppah: Execution should be incredibly painful because we shouldn't be executing anyone that doesn't deserve an incredibly painful death.


No. The justice system should be impartial. It should not be about retribution. If the society allows a death sentence, it should be carried out as dispassionately as issuing a speeding ticket. Retribution is for vendettas, feuds and other medieval forms of one-upmanship.
 
2014-01-17 10:04:20 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: "We've been told lethal injection is so barbaric that the drug companies would rather not manufacture the drugs anymore.

"So we'll just switch to firing squads."


0/10

You murder somebody, you die.

Firing squads are efficient.

/kill the bastards
//or not
///torn on the subject
////Still hard core Right Wing
//or not


//f*hk it.   Cookie recipies?
 
2014-01-17 10:05:09 PM

theorellior: It should not be about retribution.


An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. - Thomas Paine, 1795
 
2014-01-17 10:06:19 PM
I am surprised by the number of Farkers who would like to be hung. I already am.
 
2014-01-17 10:06:30 PM

That Guy Jeff: then why not firing squads?


As previously mentioned, it takes a tremendous toll on the executioners. Now, if they designed robots to fire the guns, then that wouldn't be an issue.

/don't support the death penalty
//just sayin
 
2014-01-17 10:06:48 PM
I still say that head choppin is the best way. We need to be manufacturing high tech guillotines.
 
2014-01-17 10:07:06 PM

theorellior: TheWhoppah: Execution should be incredibly painful because we shouldn't be executing anyone that doesn't deserve an incredibly painful death.

No. The justice system should be impartial. It should not be about retribution. If the society allows a death sentence, it should be carried out as dispassionately as issuing a speeding ticket. Retribution is for vendettas, feuds and other medieval forms of one-upmanship.


Justice can't exist without vengeance.  The justice system is a means of providing impartial vengeance.  Society has a right to choose whatever method it wants to demonstrate its disgust with murderers.
 
2014-01-17 10:07:16 PM

MrEricSir: mcnguyen: How about we figure out why we send so many innocent people to death row before we start arguing about the best way to kill them?

It's always bizarre when people in this country claim that the death penalty is a "deterrent." Given our track record, it seems the death penalty would have to be a deterrent against being found guilty in court.


It's been shown that people who are executed do not commit more crimes
 
2014-01-17 10:08:50 PM
An industrial sized meat grinder would be perfect:

www.crossfittemecula.com
 
2014-01-17 10:09:33 PM

tinfoil-hat maggie: jso2897: I think we should use the most barbarous methods we can, within reason. Shooting, hanging, beheading and so on. And it should be public, and there should be TV cameras and no hoods or blinfolds on the condemned.
The people want blood? Fine, let's give it to them.
But if they don't even have the balls to behold what they demand with their own eyes - they shouldn't have it.

Also, executioners should be selected by random draft, and the penalty for refusing should be five years in the penitentiary*.
All citizens should live with the knowledge that as long as they allow that switch to exist, they may be called upon to pull it personally.
If people still want the death penalty then - fine, I'm with ya.

* That's what they used to give people for refusing the military draft.

What's wrong with the guillotine in it's day it was hailed as true equality. No mare drunk ax men missing the neck and well just build one and you don't have to pay for electricity for electric chairs or drugs for lethal injection even bullets for firing squads that lots of times miss vital areas of the criminal so they have to keep shooting.


After the invention of long-drop hanging and the guillotine, nothing that has been done to make execution more humane has been any real improvement. The electric chair, gas, and poison are all unreliable and frequently fail horribly, with results far worse than anything the gallows or the guillotine can produce.
Anyway, the idea shouldn't be to make the DP more humane. We are KILLING PEOPLE.
Can we please stop bullshiating ourslves about what it is we are doing?
We should do it on prime time TV, too. early enough that children will be watching. There's hardly any point if we don't have our kids watch, and benefit from the important moral lesson we are providing them.
 
2014-01-17 10:09:48 PM

MrEricSir: mcnguyen: How about we figure out why we send so many innocent people to death row before we start arguing about the best way to kill them?

It's always bizarre when people in this country claim that the death penalty is a "deterrent." Given our track record, it seems the death penalty would have to be a deterrent against being found guilty in court.


For social control purposes, the death penalty doesn't work any better than a sentence of ten years in prison would. Even if the death penalty were swift and certain, it would deter farkall. The people who do that shiat either think they have an angle which will prevent them from getting caught, or they're too farking crazy to control themselves, or too dumb to think that far ahead. 10 years in the joint is unpleasant enough that even people with the moral character of John Yoo would still opt not to commit murder in order to avoid it.
 
2014-01-17 10:10:04 PM
If I were to be executed and given the choice of the method I would not choose beheading, I'm too afraid that the brain survives long enough to feel the pain. I want something that instantly destroy the brain.  I used to think of some kind of high velocity press but in a recent thread someone suggested explosives. Another option would be to instantly cook the brain with a very intense burst of microwave radiation.

Gunshot to the head might work but it is not 100% sure.

In any case I saw a documentary (don't remember where) where they were looking for a 100% humane way to kill people and found one (I don't remember what it was though, some gas I think), but they discovered that pro death penalty politicians aren't very interested in a method where there is no chance that the accused will not to suffer.
 
2014-01-17 10:10:23 PM

TheWhoppah: The justice system


America does not nor has it ever had a justice system.

We have a legal system, which is society's way of containing and preventing a justice system from arising.

Justice is kind of like fire. In very controlled settings, it can be a great boon. But you let it get free and:

msnbcmedia.msn.com
 
2014-01-17 10:10:35 PM

chasd00: Iirc firing squads went away out of concern for the mental health of the squad not the condemned. Executioners, who are actually just regular working stiffs, end up with serious mental issues over time.


First let me say that I am strictly against the death penalty, but there is absolutely no reason why you need human executioners so to speak. Or at least someone who actually pulls a trigger. Its 2014, and a robotic gun would be a fairly easy to engineer. Accurate, no mental health issues to address and I'd imagine it'd be more cost effective since robots don't need a health plan. Just a thought.
 
2014-01-17 10:11:11 PM

doglover: jso2897: Johnsnownw: Why is this scary?

Screw firing squad...a noose or guillotine is just as effective...and cheaper.

No shiat. What we are engaged in is the lawful, ritual killing of human beings. Let's not insult our own intelligence by trying to pass it off as something civilized. The more brutal, public, and humiliating it is, the more likely we are to get that magic "deterrent" effect everybody is always talking about, amirite?

Not really. The Romans were WAY into public executions, and they were so horrible 2000 years later people still worship a guy who got a relatively unremarkable one as the son of god for being stoic about it. Rome still had criminals.

The death penalty isn't really about deterrent or revenge or anything like that. Ideally it's because the person whom you are inhuming has done something that cannot be forgiven and cannot be reformed. Like a rabid dog, you put them down to protect everyone else as opposed to some kind of petty hate for the dog itself.

That's why you execute people as quickly and cleanly as possible, give them a last meal, and generally conduct yourself with decorum and composure during the whole thing. Eddard Stark is a perfect example of how an executioner should behave and why.


Damn, that was beautifully said, and so true and more people should realize that.
 
2014-01-17 10:12:33 PM
I'm not seeing the problem.  In fact, the series I'm reading at the moment has our future society having implemented an "eye for an eye" policy with regards to capital crimes.  So, if you kill a person with two shots to the chest and then one to the stomach, leaving them to bleed out...you get the same exact shots, then get left to bleed out.  Run over someone with a car?  You get run over with a car.  Rape a person before you murder them?  You get raped before you're killed the same way.

I'm in favor of that.  Talk about a deterrent.

No, I have no problem with the death penalty.  The only problem I have is with using the death penalty without IRREFUTABLE evidence...video, dozens of close witnesses without any contradictions, an in-court confession (none of that signed statement bullshiat), etc.  There are too many false convictions based on circumstantial and eyewitness testimony and he-said-she-said nonsense to impose death without better evidence.
 
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