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(CNN)   Company connected to West Virginia chemical spill that contaminated water for more than 300,000 people, Freedom Industries, files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Well that didn't take long   (cnn.com) divider line 143
    More: Followup, chemical accident, West Virginia, clean coal, United States bankruptcy court, water pollutions, bankruptcy, safe  
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4592 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jan 2014 at 5:24 PM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-17 07:25:31 PM
Very interesting...someone I know works for a company that ceased business with Freedom Industries two months ago. They said it was due to a difference in how they do business. Perhaps they found out about their reporting practices.
 
2014-01-17 07:33:30 PM

Silverstaff: The US Attorney for that area lives in Charleston, and was personally affected by this, I think he's personally irate with Freedom Industries and is going to see if he can land every one of those SOB's in Federal PMITA prison.


He'd better hope he lands in Federal prison. I get the impression WV state prison would be a whole lot more, um, personal.
 
2014-01-17 07:38:39 PM

DamnYankees: Dr Dreidel: If I found a company (ConHugeCo, LLC) in 2002 and wind it up and close up shop in 2005, my company can still be charged with crimes (assuming the statute of limitations hasn't passed) in 2006 for corporate activities between 2002-2005, correct? (If not, WTF.)

Or, since the company would have "no assets" by then, he gets to skate?

Basically the latter.

Don't confuse crimes with civil liabilities though. Corporations can't commit "crimes" under the justice system. They can be liable for civil damages. Crimes can only be committed by people.


Corporations ARE people, no?
 
2014-01-17 08:11:52 PM

MadCat221: In a previous thread, someone mentioned that they were a subsidiary ultimately of the Koch Brothers.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were, but is there proof?  Others in that thread were skeptical too.  Was any proof provided that they're at the far end of the line?


I don't know if the Koch-suckers own Freedom Industries, but Freedom does buy from and store chemicals for Koch's Georgia Pacific paper goods division. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/new-owner-of-freedom-i n dustries-must-face-fallout-of-west-virginia-chemical-spill/2014/01/17/ 77b1a572-7df2-11e3-93c1-0e888170b723_story.html
 
2014-01-17 08:41:56 PM
The owner just formed a new company to buy the assets of his old bankrupt company.

But not the liabilities.
 
2014-01-17 08:50:14 PM

dionysusaur: Silverstaff: The US Attorney for that area lives in Charleston, and was personally affected by this, I think he's personally irate with Freedom Industries and is going to see if he can land every one of those SOB's in Federal PMITA prison.

He'd better hope he lands in Federal prison. I get the impression WV state prison would be a whole lot more, um, personal.


Prison isn't needed.

IMHO, The only effective way to punish sociopathic rich people who pull crap like this is to take away ALL of their wealth. Garnish whatever wages they (may) make so that they have to make do on no more than $18,000/year....for life.

/ can't see most of them dealing well with something like that....bet some of them will kill themselves rather than be lower-class...
 
2014-01-17 08:54:36 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The owner just formed a new company to buy the assets of his old bankrupt company.

But not the liabilities.


The term 'cluster-fark' would need massive doses of steroids to be able to describe that situation.
 
2014-01-17 08:59:51 PM

Nabb1: DamnYankees: Nabb1: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

It's a bit early to conclude that. Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.

Still, unless I'm mistake, I think tort claims, settlements and court decisions are unsecured creditors, and lenders come first in order of payment priorities, no?

I think you are right, but I don't know if judgment debtors can be discharged, either, so they could still be on the hook. Bankruptcy is not my bag, though. Also, from what I've read, the guy that runs this operation is pretty shady. If he broke any laws, he can't hide behind the corporation.


Sure he can. That's the point of having a corporation
 
2014-01-17 09:01:07 PM

mgshamster: They're called superfund sites.
And yes, lots of companies do this.


My whole town is a Superfund site. Right now they're reclaiming the entire hill behind my house and putting in trails and trees and recontouring the land and it's going to be really nice when they finish. They've been doing this for years, after someone finally had to foot the bill for reclaiming all the old mines around here. It went through a couple bankruptcies, and the feds sued everybody, then someone wanted to open the big mine again and they had to do the reclamation work. We're going to have trails and landscaping and touristy shiat all over (because what else--tourism). Which is nice, since it looked like a--well, a Superfund site before. And it's been like that for almost 100 years.

Don't think there's much they can do about the Berkeley Pit though. It has to be a tourist attraction all by itself. "Honey, have you ever seen so much concentrated pollution in one place? It's just breath-taking!"

Mike_1962: Nope. It's an organic solvent, not an emulsifier or wetting agent. Some organic alcohols are VERY nasty beasts. Fortunately this one is relatively benign. * trivia* This chemical was originally patented for use in air fresheners.


That doesn't reassure me. I'm convinced those things will give you lung cancer.
 
2014-01-17 09:04:59 PM

Dr Dreidel: DamnYankees: Nabb1: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

It's a bit early to conclude that. Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.

Still, unless I'm mistake, I think tort claims, settlements and court decisions are unsecured creditors, and lenders come first in order of payment priorities, no?

But there hasn't even been a criminal or civil trial yet! How can they discharge a finding of liability if it hasn't been found yet?

If I found a company (ConHugeCo, LLC) in 2002 and wind it up and close up shop in 2005, my company can still be charged with crimes (assuming the statute of limitations hasn't passed) in 2006 for corporate activities between 2002-2005, correct? (If not, WTF.)

Or, since the company would have "no assets" by then, he gets to skate?

// hiding get-rich-quick malfeasance behind a corporate charter, and no punishment/penalty for the Top Guy - ain't that America?


Sure your company that is now nothing more than a piece of paper can be charged but what is the point. Your second company that you opened right after the first one shut down and bought all the first companies assets at an absurdly cheap price has nothing to do with that incident and cannot be touched
 
2014-01-17 09:38:21 PM

runwiz: So if you think you can get out from under your crushing student loan debt by declaring bankruptcy, forget about it.  But avoid responsibility for contaminating the drinking water for over 300,000 people for a week or more by declaring bankruptcy, absolutely.


The problem arises that it's hard to figure out who exactly is responsible.
 
2014-01-17 09:39:58 PM
cryinoutloud:

Don't think there's much they can do about the Berkeley Pit though. It has to be a tourist attraction all by itself. "Honey, have you ever seen so much concentrated pollution in one place? It's just breath-taking!"

One of the forums I frequent has a filter that turns "fark" into "berkeley".  Many of us end up actually saying "berkeley!" when doing things like, for instance, missing a nail and hitting your thumb with the hammer instead.

"Berkeley Pit" works for that.

/the speech from Team America is hilarious there
 
2014-01-17 10:02:56 PM
Words cannot describe what it's like here right now. And yes, very bit of the news is exactly as bad as it sounds.

I work at the state Capitol in charleston, and though that part of town was the first to be declared safe, this morning hundreds of gallons of wate were delivered to the Capitol to be distributed to staff.

When you go to the water company's webpage they have a map of the effected counties colored red, for unsafe, and blue, for safe. On the map legend, there's a blue box and the words "water is safe"....with an asterisk next to it. Water safety should not come with an asterisk.

So much about this is so farked up its unreal
 
2014-01-17 10:09:23 PM

Hollie Maea: you are a puppet: "Freedom Industries"? Oh come on

Why are you against Coal, "America's Fuel" (TM)?


There is actually some truth to this. The United States is very coal-rich. We are the Saudi Arabia of coal. Our coal reserves could meet our energy needs for centuries, if--and this is a big if--we could extract that energy in an environmentally responsible manner without hurting people in the process.
 
2014-01-17 10:11:16 PM

Philip J. Fry: The Libertarian dream.  If a company wrongs you, then file a lawsuit!  Oh, the money to make amends doesn't exist?  Uh, FREEDOM!


The usual libertarian argument in this situation is Life Isn't Fair.
 
2014-01-17 10:12:43 PM
Why don't they just drink the water?  If they get ill they can sue latter.
 
2014-01-17 10:46:53 PM

revrendjim: There is actually some truth to this. The United States is very coal-rich. We are the Saudi Arabia of coal. Our coal reserves could meet our energy needs for centuries, if--and this is a big if--we could extract that energy in an environmentally responsible manner without hurting people in the process.


Well, you know, if it did kill lots of people, that would reduce our energy needs, too. Win-win!
 
2014-01-17 10:57:17 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The owner just formed a new company to buy the assets of his old bankrupt company.

But not the liabilities.


This guy needs to hang from the town square.
 
2014-01-17 11:01:48 PM

revrendjim: Our coal reserves could meet our energy needs for centuries, if--and this is a big if--we could extract that energy in an environmentally responsible manner without hurting people in the process.


We could do that.  But it would be far more expensive than a host of much better options.  Coal is only cheap when you externalize the pollution and environmental disasters.
 
2014-01-17 11:03:44 PM
It's almost like that railway company that incinerated 57 Quebeckers, went bankrupt and then the CEO told the media he was really suffering because of it.
 
2014-01-17 11:27:11 PM
I'm going to incorporate myself as "I Love America More than You Do Industries, Inc."
 
2014-01-17 11:31:23 PM

propasaurus: I'm going to incorporate myself as "I Love America More than You Do Industries, Inc."


I'm going to be YOU'RE A Towel, LLC.
 
2014-01-17 11:56:19 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The owner just formed a new company to buy the assets of his old bankrupt company.

But not the liabilities.


That should be illegal. =/
 
2014-01-18 12:00:26 AM

mschwenk: runwiz: So if you think you can get out from under your crushing student loan debt by declaring bankruptcy, forget about it.  But avoid responsibility for contaminating the drinking water for over 300,000 people for a week or more by declaring bankruptcy, absolutely.

The problem arises that it's hard to figure out who exactly is responsible.


The owners of the company take home the rewards they should have to face the risks. There I just solved the problem of determining fault
 
2014-01-18 12:01:08 AM

MechaPyx: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The owner just formed a new company to buy the assets of his old bankrupt company.

But not the liabilities.

That should be illegal. =/


I mean really....If you fark up like this there damn well ought to be consequences. I don't even live there and I'm sorely tempted to add some lead to this guy's diet.
 
2014-01-18 12:01:22 AM

DoctorCal: AgentPothead: Back in the day the guy who owned that company would have gotten lynched, possibly tarred and feathered. Now he goes bankrupt and gets to go setup another company and pull this shiat some place else. This is like his third time doing that isn't it?

Please explain what "day" that happened on.


July 14, 1789
 
2014-01-18 12:46:25 AM
If you can't trust the job-creators of Massey Energy, who the Hell can you trust?

After all they gleefully donated nearly $6,000 of their hard-won butter-and-egg money for fines in humble sacrifice for their colossal carelessness.
 
2014-01-18 12:50:09 AM

Mister Peejay: propasaurus: I'm going to incorporate myself as "I Love America More than You Do Industries, Inc."
I'm going to be YOU'RE A Towel, LLC.


I'm going to be What Jesus Would Do Industries, America, Inc.
 
2014-01-18 12:58:33 AM
I am seeing stories about .057 ppm being the new standard, although I haven't found a scientifically verifiable source link yet. I took a shower with no immediate adverse effects yesterday after flushing my lines and the water heater, but will continue using bottled water for all my kids' needs. You can wash yourself or your kid with bottled water and give them drinks pretty easily... but clothes and dish washing is a huge pain in the ass.
 
2014-01-18 02:29:54 AM
He should hang from the town square, in pieces.
 
2014-01-18 02:33:37 AM

MechaPyx: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: The owner just formed a new company to buy the assets of his old bankrupt company.

But not the liabilities.

That should be illegal. =/


It's probably more of an effort to re-brand or something than to get out of liabilities. The old company can stil be sued and would probably end up in a trust for the plaintifs. At that point the old company can sue the new company for the damages.

/seen it happen
 
2014-01-18 05:14:13 AM
seriously? this rich asshat should not be allowed to do this.

We need a federal law on the books that if a company declares bankruptcy that none of the owners of said company can buy the assets  of the bankrupt company with out also buying the liablities.
 
2014-01-18 05:59:18 AM

Mister Peejay: cryinoutloud:

Don't think there's much they can do about the Berkeley Pit though. It has to be a tourist attraction all by itself. "Honey, have you ever seen so much concentrated pollution in one place? It's just breath-taking!"

One of the forums I frequent has a filter that turns "fark" into "berkeley".  Many of us end up actually saying "berkeley!" when doing things like, for instance, missing a nail and hitting your thumb with the hammer instead.

"Berkeley Pit" works for that.

/the speech from Team America is hilarious there


I'm on that berkelying forum too!

/We had a preponderance of canoes lately...
 
2014-01-18 06:31:18 AM
On the bright side, the birth defects from pregnant women drinking the water will probably be less severe than those caused by generational inbreeding.

West Virginia - 1.6 million people and six last names. Where there is no lifeguard for the gene pool
 
2014-01-18 07:44:30 AM

discgolfguru: I am seeing stories about .057 ppm being the new standard, although I haven't found a scientifically verifiable source link yet. I took a shower with no immediate adverse effects yesterday after flushing my lines and the water heater, but will continue using bottled water for all my kids' needs. You can wash yourself or your kid with bottled water and give them drinks pretty easily... but clothes and dish washing is a huge pain in the ass.


I think I'd do the paper plates and plastic fork routine for awhile.  The clothes must be a pain though; can't run around in t-shirts in winter, even down there, I'd imagine.
 
2014-01-18 09:09:49 AM

Philip J. Fry: If a company wrongs you, then file a lawsuit!  Oh, the money to make amends doesn't exist?  Uh, FREEDOM!


I know, so different from dealing with individuals who wrong you.
 
2014-01-18 10:41:19 AM
blog.cleanenergy.org

How's that "Clean Coal" working out for ya??

Woops.

Looks like those solar panels and windmills aren't so scary after all
 
2014-01-18 10:43:13 AM

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: [blog.cleanenergy.org image 670x450]

How's that "Clean Coal" working out for ya??

Woops.

Looks like those solar panels and windmills aren't so scary after all


www.newscientist.com
 
2014-01-18 10:49:00 AM

Snarfangel: Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: [blog.cleanenergy.org image 670x450]

How's that "Clean Coal" working out for ya??

Woops.

Looks like those solar panels and windmills aren't so scary after all

[www.newscientist.com image 600x460]


Mmeehhh, nuke meltdown is a whole lot more dramatic.
This is a dead horsie
 
2014-01-18 11:01:21 AM

Snarfangel: Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: [blog.cleanenergy.org image 670x450]

How's that "Clean Coal" working out for ya??

Woops.

Looks like those solar panels and windmills aren't so scary after all

[www.newscientist.com image 600x460]


Except for that one.  Heh.  Funny.  Good One
 
2014-01-18 11:27:02 AM

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: Except for that one.


is that the one that flambéed the 2 mechanics? (or did they leap? didn't read that farking article)
 
2014-01-18 02:45:31 PM

Snarfangel: Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: [blog.cleanenergy.org image 670x450]

How's that "Clean Coal" working out for ya??

Woops.

Looks like those solar panels and windmills aren't so scary after all

[www.newscientist.com image 600x460]


Not pictured:  A large portion of a state being farked, possibly permanently,
 
2014-01-18 08:11:20 PM

Mister Peejay: Snarfangel: Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: [blog.cleanenergy.org image 670x450]

How's that "Clean Coal" working out for ya??

Woops.

Looks like those solar panels and windmills aren't so scary after all

[www.newscientist.com image 600x460]

Not pictured:  A large portion of a state being farked, possibly permanently,


Like , Dude,  You talking North Dakota.
 
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