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(CNN)   Company connected to West Virginia chemical spill that contaminated water for more than 300,000 people, Freedom Industries, files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Well that didn't take long   (cnn.com) divider line 142
    More: Followup, chemical accident, West Virginia, clean coal, United States bankruptcy court, water pollutions, bankruptcy, safe  
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4594 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jan 2014 at 5:24 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-17 03:47:59 PM  
See? There IS a death penalty for companies! (After the execs and decision-makers have taken home their 8-figure golden parachutes.)
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-01-17 03:53:20 PM  
You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.
 
2014-01-17 03:59:35 PM  

d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.


It's a bit early to conclude that. Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.
 
2014-01-17 04:38:04 PM  

Nabb1: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

It's a bit early to conclude that. Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.


Still, unless I'm mistake, I think tort claims, settlements and court decisions are unsecured creditors, and lenders come first in order of payment priorities, no?
 
2014-01-17 04:53:26 PM  
Could I kill someone one day, declare moral bankruptcy the next day and walk away from the whole thing? If corporations are going to be people I want to be a corporation.
 
2014-01-17 04:56:08 PM  

Nabb1: Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.


Well, you wouldn't want these guys around anything liquid again,  now, would you?
 
2014-01-17 04:57:33 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

It's a bit early to conclude that. Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.

Still, unless I'm mistake, I think tort claims, settlements and court decisions are unsecured creditors, and lenders come first in order of payment priorities, no?


I think you are right, but I don't know if judgment debtors can be discharged, either, so they could still be on the hook. Bankruptcy is not my bag, though. Also, from what I've read, the guy that runs this operation is pretty shady. If he broke any laws, he can't hide behind the corporation.
 
2014-01-17 04:57:44 PM  
The chemical, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol, got into water supplies after it leaked out of a storage tank and poured into the Elk River near an intake for a West Virginia American Water Co. treatment plant.

Officials detected the 7,000-gallon leak eight days ago, on January 9. More than 7,000 gallons of the chemical, which is used to clean coal, leaked into the river, according to officials.


I don't see what the big problem is.  It's basically soap.
 
2014-01-17 04:58:17 PM  

vudukungfu: Nabb1: Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.

Well, you wouldn't want these guys around anything liquid again,  now, would you?


{rimshot}
 
2014-01-17 04:58:56 PM  

Nabb1: I think you are right, but I don't know if judgment debtors can be discharged, either, so they could still be on the hook. Bankruptcy is not my bag, though. Also, from what I've read, the guy that runs this operation is pretty shady. If he broke any laws, he can't hide behind the corporation.


There's also no way he has enough personal wealth to cover the damages.
 
2014-01-17 05:27:37 PM  
"Freedom Industries"? Oh come on
 
2014-01-17 05:28:05 PM  

Nabb1: If he broke any laws, he can't hide behind the corporation.


He can, however, hide behind pushing back against the WAR ON COAL (TM)!
 
2014-01-17 05:28:59 PM  

you are a puppet: "Freedom Industries"? Oh come on


Why are you against Coal, "America's Fuel" (TM)?
 
MFK
2014-01-17 05:29:39 PM  

d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.


Can they really get off the hook this easy?
 
2014-01-17 05:29:55 PM  

Nabb1: If he broke any laws, he can't hide behind the corporation.


oh wow, does that only work for money laundering?
 
2014-01-17 05:30:00 PM  
So they're going to spin off all of their business into their new business next week?
 
2014-01-17 05:30:02 PM  
I would just love to see the maintenance, safety records, and bookkeeping practices they employed just prior to announcing the spill.
/no I wouldn't.  Someone just tell me they were corrupt.
 
2014-01-17 05:30:28 PM  
How exciting! This enables the Job Creators to make a clean break from the overbearing regulators who are crushing the free market. Now they can move their assets to another corporate structure, and continue adding Freedom Chemicals to water in other places. Yay Land of Opportunity!
 
2014-01-17 05:30:29 PM  

d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.


The Federal Prosecutors are talking about "piercing the corporate veil", in other words prosecuting the actual executives personally for this instead of the company.

The US Attorney for that area lives in Charleston, and was personally affected by this, I think he's personally irate with Freedom Industries and is going to see if he can land every one of those SOB's in Federal PMITA prison.
 
2014-01-17 05:31:21 PM  

Diogenes: The chemical, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol, got into water supplies after it leaked out of a storage tank and poured into the Elk River near an intake for a West Virginia American Water Co. treatment plant.

Officials detected the 7,000-gallon leak eight days ago, on January 9. More than 7,000 gallons of the chemical, which is used to clean coal, leaked into the river, according to officials.

I don't see what the big problem is.  It's basically soap.


Then go ahead and drink a glass of it.
 
2014-01-17 05:31:45 PM  

TwoHead: Could I kill someone one day, declare moral bankruptcy the next day and walk away from the whole thing? If corporations are going to be people I want to be a corporation.


Heh, that's why one of the main characters in my novel incorporates herself.
 
2014-01-17 05:32:02 PM  

MFK: Can they really get off the hook this easy?


They aren't really off the hook.  They are incurring expenses at a rate that prevents them from servicing loans, paying vendors, etc. and Chapter 11 is a court-sanctioned way to prioritize how they spend what they have until they restructure loans and/or start bringing money in again.
 
2014-01-17 05:32:07 PM  
Back in the day the guy who owned that company would have gotten lynched, possibly tarred and feathered. Now he goes bankrupt and gets to go setup another company and pull this shiat some place else. This is like his third time doing that isn't it?
 
2014-01-17 05:32:17 PM  

Diogenes: I don't see what the big problem is.  It's basically soap.


Soap poisoning.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-17 05:33:32 PM  
In a previous thread, someone mentioned that they were a subsidiary ultimately of the Koch Brothers.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were, but is there proof?  Others in that thread were skeptical too.  Was any proof provided that they're at the far end of the line?
 
2014-01-17 05:33:56 PM  
I heard this while I was out walking the dog, and I started yelling at clouds. "Of course you did! You motherfarkers!!"
 
2014-01-17 05:34:37 PM  

vudukungfu: Nabb1: Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.

Well, you wouldn't want these guys around anything liquid again,  now, would you?


You've won Fark today. There won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.
 
2014-01-17 05:34:38 PM  

MadCat221: Diogenes: The chemical, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol, got into water supplies after it leaked out of a storage tank and poured into the Elk River near an intake for a West Virginia American Water Co. treatment plant.

Officials detected the 7,000-gallon leak eight days ago, on January 9. More than 7,000 gallons of the chemical, which is used to clean coal, leaked into the river, according to officials.

I don't see what the big problem is.  It's basically soap.

Then go ahead and drink a glass of it.


Just as soon as you tune your snark meter.
 
2014-01-17 05:35:05 PM  

Silverstaff: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

The Federal Prosecutors are talking about "piercing the corporate veil", in other words prosecuting the actual executives personally for this instead of the company.

The US Attorney for that area lives in Charleston, and was personally affected by this, I think he's personally irate with Freedom Industries and is going to see if he can land every one of those SOB's in Federal PMITA prison.


Right up until the moment someone hands him a big, fat check, I'm sure he has every intention of prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law.
 
2014-01-17 05:35:17 PM  

DamnYankees: Nabb1: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

It's a bit early to conclude that. Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.

Still, unless I'm mistake, I think tort claims, settlements and court decisions are unsecured creditors, and lenders come first in order of payment priorities, no?


But there hasn't even been a criminal or civil trial yet! How can they discharge a finding of liability if it hasn't been found yet?

If I found a company (ConHugeCo, LLC) in 2002 and wind it up and close up shop in 2005, my company can still be charged with crimes (assuming the statute of limitations hasn't passed) in 2006 for corporate activities between 2002-2005, correct? (If not, WTF.)

Or, since the company would have "no assets" by then, he gets to skate?

// hiding get-rich-quick malfeasance behind a corporate charter, and no punishment/penalty for the Top Guy - ain't that America?
 
2014-01-17 05:35:30 PM  

Nabb1: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

It's a bit early to conclude that. Chapter 11 is reorganization, not liquidation.



So they may come back more powerful than we can possibly imagine.
 
2014-01-17 05:35:38 PM  

Silverstaff: The US Attorney for that area lives in Charleston, and was personally affected by this, I think he's personally irate with Freedom Industries and is going to see if he can land every one of those SOB's in Federal PMITA prison.


Which is basically the same reason Bernie Maddoff went to jail and Jamie Dimon is still livin' large. Madoff stole from the people who mattered, so he got the full force of the law. Dimon simply farked over millions who can't turn proper regulation into a personal vendetta.
 
2014-01-17 05:36:22 PM  

MadCat221: Then go ahead and drink a glass of it.


He can't; it has a terrible interaction with the fracking fluid he drank the other night to win a bar bet. Otherwise he would.
 
2014-01-17 05:36:28 PM  

Hollie Maea: you are a puppet: "Freedom Industries"? Oh come on

Why are you against Coal, "America's Fuel" (TM)?


So one of those Coal Council creeps got to you too huh?

/too obscure
 
2014-01-17 05:36:54 PM  
Clean coal, eh?
 
2014-01-17 05:37:14 PM  

MadCat221: Diogenes: The chemical, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol, got into water supplies after it leaked out of a storage tank and poured into the Elk River near an intake for a West Virginia American Water Co. treatment plant.

Officials detected the 7,000-gallon leak eight days ago, on January 9. More than 7,000 gallons of the chemical, which is used to clean coal, leaked into the river, according to officials.

I don't see what the big problem is.  It's basically soap.

Then go ahead and drink a glass of it.


And add some delicious pepper spray!
 
2014-01-17 05:38:10 PM  

Mrtraveler01: /too obscure


cdn.alltheragefaces.com
 
2014-01-17 05:38:23 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Hollie Maea: you are a puppet: "Freedom Industries"? Oh come on

Why are you against Coal, "America's Fuel" (TM)?

So one of those Coal Council creeps got to you too huh?

/too obscure


You'd better run, egg!
 
2014-01-17 05:38:37 PM  
I guess Freedom really IS just a word for "nothing left to lose."
 
2014-01-17 05:39:04 PM  

cryinoutloud: I heard this while I was out walking the dog, and I started yelling at clouds. "Of course you did! You motherfarkers!!"



I saw that. Several teenagers immediately got off your lawn.  Good job!
 
2014-01-17 05:40:31 PM  

Diogenes: The chemical, 4-methylcyclohexane methanol, got into water supplies after it leaked out of a storage tank and poured into the Elk River near an intake for a West Virginia American Water Co. treatment plant.

Officials detected the 7,000-gallon leak eight days ago, on January 9. More than 7,000 gallons of the chemical, which is used to clean coal, leaked into the river, according to officials.

I don't see what the big problem is.  It's basically soap.


You could work in corporate PR.
 
2014-01-17 05:40:57 PM  
Freedom Industries?

Holy Carp, did they get that from the Orwellian Company Name Generator?
 
2014-01-17 05:42:13 PM  

Silverstaff: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

The Federal Prosecutors are talking about "piercing the corporate veil", in other words prosecuting the actual executives personally for this instead of the company.

The US Attorney for that area lives in Charleston, and was personally affected by this, I think he's personally irate with Freedom Industries and is going to see if he can land every one of those SOB's in Federal PMITA prison.


That's not what "piercing the corporate veil" means. You can always prosecute stockholders and executives for actual crimes. Piercing the vile just takes away the limitation of liability and lets you go after the stockholders' personal wealth for damages incurred by the corporation.
 
2014-01-17 05:42:43 PM  
They hung around long enough to siphon all the assets out of the company to a corporate shell and not a moment longer, I'm sure.

But we need less regulation, because companies like this will have to follow the invisible hand, right?
 
2014-01-17 05:42:45 PM  

NutWrench: I guess Freedom really IS just a word for "nothing left to lose."


applause
 
2014-01-17 05:43:17 PM  

Vodka Zombie: Silverstaff: d23: You do realize this means there will now be absolutely no one at all that suffers any penalty... except the people of WV, of course.

The Federal Prosecutors are talking about "piercing the corporate veil", in other words prosecuting the actual executives personally for this instead of the company.

The US Attorney for that area lives in Charleston, and was personally affected by this, I think he's personally irate with Freedom Industries and is going to see if he can land every one of those SOB's in Federal PMITA prison.

Right up until the moment someone hands him a big, fat check, I'm sure he has every intention of prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law.


I dunno, this is the type of case that can really propel a political career. Depending on how he plays his hand, he can be tough on crime, a champion of the little guy, and still defend coal. You can't buy that kind of resume.

Don't believe me? Just as Mitt Romney.
 
2014-01-17 05:43:29 PM  

Dr Dreidel: If I found a company (ConHugeCo, LLC) in 2002 and wind it up and close up shop in 2005, my company can still be charged with crimes (assuming the statute of limitations hasn't passed) in 2006 for corporate activities between 2002-2005, correct? (If not, WTF.)

Or, since the company would have "no assets" by then, he gets to skate?


Basically the latter.

Don't confuse crimes with civil liabilities though. Corporations can't commit "crimes" under the justice system. They can be liable for civil damages. Crimes can only be committed by people.
 
2014-01-17 05:43:46 PM  
The CNN comments are actually amusing for a change. This guy. I like this guy.
i40.tinypic.com

And look! CNN has its own Fark Independents (TM).
i42.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-17 05:44:11 PM  
FREEDOM ISN'T FREE!
 
2014-01-17 05:44:22 PM  
Almost Heaven West Virgina.
 
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