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(Philly.com)   Christie aide involved in bridge scandal will only talk if he is given a polio vaccine or something   (philly.com) divider line 70
    More: Weird, polio vaccine, David Wildstein, parliamentary immunity, George Washington Bridge, New Hampshire GOP, Port Authority of New York, scandals, Alan Zegas  
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1855 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jan 2014 at 1:33 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-17 10:58:50 AM  
In as much of an asshole that this guy is, he's absolutely right to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he even has an inkling of a doubt that they're able to give him immunity for both state and federal charges.
 
2014-01-17 11:39:54 AM  

pueblonative: In as much of an asshole that this guy is, he's absolutely right to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he even has an inkling of a doubt that they're able to give him immunity for both state and federal charges.


True.  But people who don't get how that works will still say, "This looks bad."

I guess, given that, it will de facto look bad.
 
2014-01-17 11:42:46 AM  
He should get his damn immunity to testify, but the immunity should come with the stipulation that there will be a lottery pool assembled that's made up of drivers who were stuck in the bridge traffic, and from this pool will be drawn a group of 10 winners who all get to punch David Wildstein in the face.
 
2014-01-17 11:56:00 AM  

Pocket Ninja: He should get his damn immunity to testify, but the immunity should come with the stipulation that there will be a lottery pool assembled that's made up of drivers who were stuck in the bridge traffic, and from this pool will be drawn a group of 10 winners who all get to punch David Wildstein in the face.


That sounds good.  In theory.  But we know what the population of New Jersey looks like.  For every orange spray tanned young buck with 7 popped collars, you have three grannies and an old Jewish guy from Patterson that can't stand up without wheezing and hacking out a lunger.  No, what we need is a professional to smash his face in properly.  We can still have the lottery, but the winners should be limited to directing the pro where to hit him next.
 
2014-01-17 11:58:29 AM  
i13.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-17 12:01:28 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: hacking out a lunger.


l.yimg.comlibrary.thinkquest.org
 
2014-01-17 12:22:38 PM  
So if you get immunity, you just say it was all your idea and protect your buddy the Governor.  You either get a sweet ass appointment later on, right a book or become a pundit on Fox News.  The guy was a no one before and has nothing to lose.

fark him and his immunity.  Tell him to spill his guts or he's going to serve time.  If the information he provides is useful and appears honest, you will recommend either no sentence or probation.
 
2014-01-17 12:24:25 PM  
Alternately, you give him immunity for all things related to the bridge closure but not immunity from perjury.  If he's caught lying to to the investigators after accepting immunity he could still be charged.

/not a lawyer (probably obvious).
 
2014-01-17 12:26:29 PM  

pueblonative: In as much of an asshole that this guy is, he's absolutely right to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he even has an inkling of a doubt that they're able to give him immunity for both state and federal charges.


The law that authorizes the legislative committee's subpoena power already states that no testimony can be used in prosecution and thus people who testify before it can't take the Fifth, since they can't be prosecuted. There is a difference of legal opinion about whether the Fifth can be used outside actual courts that prosecute people, but it should be noted that the committee's view is that he already has legal immunity.
 
2014-01-17 12:33:32 PM  

pueblonative: In as much of an asshole that this guy is, he's absolutely right to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he even has an inkling of a doubt that they're able to give him immunity for both state and federal charges.


Also, he's already supplied the committee with hundreds of pages of documents that really got the scandal going. There is a debate in at least some jurisdictions over whether that already constitutes testimony, and that is addition to the issue that he's not a defendant, he's a witness under subpoena power.

/not a lawyer
//or that kind of doctor
 
2014-01-17 12:45:05 PM  

Somacandra: pueblonative: In as much of an asshole that this guy is, he's absolutely right to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he even has an inkling of a doubt that they're able to give him immunity for both state and federal charges.

The law that authorizes the legislative committee's subpoena power already states that no testimony can be used in prosecution and thus people who testify before it can't take the Fifth, since they can't be prosecuted. There is a difference of legal opinion about whether the Fifth can be used outside actual courts that prosecute people, but it should be noted that the committee's view is that he already has legal immunity.


What if you are talking to the committee and let it slip that you've killed a few hobos.
 
2014-01-17 01:05:46 PM  

mrshowrules: Alternately, you give him immunity for all things related to the bridge closure but not immunity from perjury.  If he's caught lying to to the investigators after accepting immunity he could still be charged.

/not a lawyer (probably obvious).


Yeah, immunity generally has the condition that you tell the truth attached. If he lies, then the immunity goes away in a puff of smoke and they get to tack on perjury charges..
 
2014-01-17 01:07:42 PM  

Somacandra: pueblonative: In as much of an asshole that this guy is, he's absolutely right to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he even has an inkling of a doubt that they're able to give him immunity for both state and federal charges.

The law that authorizes the legislative committee's subpoena power already states that no testimony can be used in prosecution and thus people who testify before it can't take the Fifth, since they can't be prosecuted. There is a difference of legal opinion about whether the Fifth can be used outside actual courts that prosecute people, but it should be noted that the committee's view is that he already has legal immunity.


It was an interesting argument, but I think that there's a slight problem of tainting the jury pool, even if what he said in the committee can't be entered as evidence.
 
2014-01-17 01:08:44 PM  

Somacandra: that he's not a defendant,


Yet.  And the fact that he wants immunity spelled out, even after being told he already has it, lends credence to the idea that what he's willing to say might open him up to prosecution for his role.
 
2014-01-17 01:13:54 PM  

nmrsnr: mrshowrules: Alternately, you give him immunity for all things related to the bridge closure but not immunity from perjury.  If he's caught lying to to the investigators after accepting immunity he could still be charged.

/not a lawyer (probably obvious).

Yeah, immunity generally has the condition that you tell the truth attached. If he lies, then the immunity goes away in a puff of smoke and they get to tack on perjury charges..


I'm good with that then.
 
2014-01-17 01:14:52 PM  

ShawnDoc: Somacandra: that he's not a defendant,

Yet.  And the fact that he wants immunity spelled out, even after being told he already has it, lends credence to the idea that what he's willing to say might open him up to prosecution for his role.


Does that speak to Christie's involvement or lack thereof?
 
2014-01-17 01:17:36 PM  

mrshowrules: If the information he provides is useful and appears honest


Not likely. The man is an epic sleaze. He was the mayor of my hometown. He was run the fark out of town after his term.
 
2014-01-17 01:21:49 PM  
But if he gets autism, would he be able to testify?
 
2014-01-17 01:22:24 PM  

FishyFred: mrshowrules: If the information he provides is useful and appears honest

Not likely. The man is an epic sleaze. He was the mayor of my hometown. He was run the fark out of town after his term.


He strikes me as someone with a clammy handshake.

/nothing worse than a person with a clammy handshake
 
2014-01-17 01:27:23 PM  

Diogenes: pueblonative: In as much of an asshole that this guy is, he's absolutely right to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he even has an inkling of a doubt that they're able to give him immunity for both state and federal charges.

True.  But people who don't get how that works will still say, "This looks bad."

I guess, given that, it will de facto look bad.


I don't think PR is high on his list of priorities at the moment.
 
2014-01-17 01:31:46 PM  
If Obama comes out in support of Christie right now, do Republicans heads explode like the Nomad robot in Star Trek.
 
2014-01-17 01:40:23 PM  
Pretty clever. He'll catch autism and will be DQed as a witness.
 
2014-01-17 01:41:06 PM  
It's going to be interesting to see how far down this rabbit hole goes considering how shady all the participants are
 
2014-01-17 01:41:40 PM  

kbronsito: But if he gets autism, would he be able to testify?


Dammit! Sorry.

/ always read the thread first, s2
 
2014-01-17 01:43:39 PM  
Wildstein "is ready to share more information if he can be granted immunity from prosecution."

I don't think immunity deals work that way. You go to the prosecutor and offer to give certain testimony with the aim of convicting another party that the prosecution can't otherwise convict. You don't play "lets guess what I have" in exchange for immunity. The prosecutor will tell you to pound sand.

It sounds like a PR move by the defense, really. Or a warning to Christie? I have no head for these machinations...
 
2014-01-17 01:44:00 PM  

Summoner101: It's going to be interesting to see how far down this rabbit hole goes considering how shady all the participants are


There's a hand job involved at some point I'm sure.
 
2014-01-17 01:44:56 PM  

mrshowrules: If Obama comes out in support of Christie right now, do Republicans heads explode like the Nomad robot in Star Trek.


There was a period of time in the Reagan administration where, if you were an appointee and the President said to the press how great a job you were doing, it was a good indicator that you should clean out your desk and possibly lawyer up.

Not sure what would happen if Obama tried the same thing.
 
2014-01-17 01:47:58 PM  

StopLurkListen: Wildstein "is ready to share more information if he can be granted immunity from prosecution."

I don't think immunity deals work that way. You go to the prosecutor and offer to give certain testimony with the aim of convicting another party that the prosecution can't otherwise convict. You don't play "lets guess what I have" in exchange for immunity. The prosecutor will tell you to pound sand.

It sounds like a PR move by the defense, really. Or a warning to Christie? I have no head for these machinations...


Sorta like my point earlier.  There is a person below Wildstein that should be offered immunity.  Offer Wildstein a lighter sentence for complete cooperation and honesty.

Offer immunity to the people just doing their job and not friends with the Governor.
 
2014-01-17 01:49:36 PM  
So many people are invoved.  Someone is gonna blab.
 
2014-01-17 01:50:40 PM  
Wait till Neil Degrasse Tyson starts talking about Gravity.
 
2014-01-17 01:52:27 PM  
Not an aide, an appointee and his lawyer brought up immunity last week while Wildstein was taking the 5th.

I highly recommend Kornacki's show on msnbc for keeping up with this circus.  He's well-versed in NJ politics and actually used to work for Wildstein.
 
2014-01-17 01:54:42 PM  

BalugaJoe: So many people are invoved.  Someone is gonna blab.


deathbytrolley.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-17 01:54:45 PM  

mrshowrules: If Obama comes out in support of Christie right now, do Republicans heads explode like the Nomad robot in Star Trek.


No, more like the M-5 Multitronic Unit, or maybe Harry Mudd's 'Norman' android.
 
2014-01-17 01:55:17 PM  
Christie should just admit he knew about and let the scandal blow over.
 
2014-01-17 01:56:32 PM  

mrshowrules: If Obama comes out in support of Christie right now, do Republicans heads explode like the Nomad robot in Star Trek.


imageshack.com
 
2014-01-17 01:57:12 PM  
inb4 "B-b-but Benghazi/IRS/other assorted poutrages"
 
2014-01-17 01:57:44 PM  
If Christie didn't know about this bridge closing, then he was framed by the Democrats and secret Democrats within his administration. He would realize this by now ( if he's innocent ) and you'd know if he was innocent or not by the lawyers he hires. He wouldn't hire lawyers who would  have a problem with exposing a major Democrat scandal.

I know that sounds a bit complicated.
 
2014-01-17 01:59:49 PM  
Yeah, there's no way prosecutors are entertaining this immunity request right now. The guy has no leverage.  The investigation is just getting going.  If I was them, I'd be sitting back and seeing what comes of these 20+ hearings on this issue.  Wildstein is already implicated through the emails that are already public, and I'd be willing to bet that at least some of those 20 people who were subpoenaed are going to be pointing their fingers at him.  Hell, some of the people who already testified ratted on him.  The only way they will give Wildstein immunity is if he will testify to the criminal involvement of someone higher on the political hierarchy than himself.  And there's really nobody above him other than Chris Christie.

Compare this to Blagojevich.  The government gave immunity to a ton of Blago administration higher-ups on the condition that they testify against their boss.  And who just became involved in this investigation? Why none other than Reid Schar, lead prosecutor in the Blagojevich trial.
 
2014-01-17 02:03:28 PM  

Noam Chimpsky: If Christie didn't know about this bridge closing, then he was framed by the Democrats and secret Democrats within his administration. He would realize this by now ( if he's innocent ) and you'd know if he was innocent or not by the lawyers he hires. He wouldn't hire lawyers who would  have a problem with exposing a major Democrat scandal.

I know that sounds a bit complicated.


No, not complicated, just crazy.
 
2014-01-17 02:04:39 PM  

BalugaJoe: Christie should just admit he knew about and let the scandal blow over.


He may be asking for the definition of "is" soon
 
2014-01-17 02:05:38 PM  
Why would you want autism?
 
2014-01-17 02:06:53 PM  

monoski: BalugaJoe: Christie should just admit he knew about and let the scandal blow over.

He may be asking for the definition of "is" soon


And by "blow over", I assume you mean get impeached and face criminal charges?
 
2014-01-17 02:07:10 PM  

mrshowrules: What if you are talking to the committee and let it slip that you've killed a few hobos.


i.imgur.com

Oh, that's barely even a misdemeanor these days.
 
2014-01-17 02:08:03 PM  

mrshowrules: Somacandra: pueblonative: In as much of an asshole that this guy is, he's absolutely right to invoke the Fifth Amendment if he even has an inkling of a doubt that they're able to give him immunity for both state and federal charges.

The law that authorizes the legislative committee's subpoena power already states that no testimony can be used in prosecution and thus people who testify before it can't take the Fifth, since they can't be prosecuted. There is a difference of legal opinion about whether the Fifth can be used outside actual courts that prosecute people, but it should be noted that the committee's view is that he already has legal immunity.

What if you are talking to the committee and let it slip that you've killed a few hobos.


But I mean, who hasn't?
 
2014-01-17 02:08:59 PM  

Noam Chimpsky: secret Democrats


What about the double-secret probationary Democrats? It is NJ, after all.
 
2014-01-17 02:13:39 PM  

shut_it_down: Yeah, there's no way prosecutors are entertaining this immunity request right now. The guy has no leverage.  The investigation is just getting going.  If I was them, I'd be sitting back and seeing what comes of these 20+ hearings on this issue.  Wildstein is already implicated through the emails that are already public, and I'd be willing to bet that at least some of those 20 people who were subpoenaed are going to be pointing their fingers at him.  Hell, some of the people who already testified ratted on him.  The only way they will give Wildstein immunity is if he will testify to the criminal involvement of someone higher on the political hierarchy than himself.  And there's really nobody above him other than Chris Christie.

Compare this to Blagojevich.  The government gave immunity to a ton of Blago administration higher-ups on the condition that they testify against their boss.  And who just became involved in this investigation? Why none other than Reid Schar, lead prosecutor in the Blagojevich trial.


Based on Christie's statements after it happened, I think a lot of crap will be uncovered. He might put Blago to shame in terms of corruption.

Then again the only reason Blago got "caught" was because he pissed off his father in law. You think the gangsters in Chicago live on the south side? Think again. The real gangsters live in Ravenswood.
 
2014-01-17 02:14:16 PM  
It will become a 'dead' issue for Democrats and Liberals when it comes out that it was a Democratic plot to try to disrupt Christie from running for President in 2016.
 
2014-01-17 02:16:28 PM  

Pocket Ninja: He should get his damn immunity to testify, but the immunity should come with the stipulation that there will be a lottery pool assembled that's made up of drivers who were stuck in the bridge traffic, and from this pool will be drawn a group of 10 winners who all get to punch David Wildstein in the face.


Face?
 
2014-01-17 02:16:43 PM  

Somacandra: Noam Chimpsky: secret Democrats

What about the double-secret probationary Democrats? It is NJ, after all.


NJ Democrats have to hide, for fear of being driven out of one of the most conservative states in the nation.

This is potato. Potato it out.
 
2014-01-17 02:24:52 PM  

ferretman: It will become a 'dead' issue for Democrats and Liberals when it comes out that it was a Democratic plot to try to disrupt Christie from running for President in 2016.


You're a tough one to figure out.
 
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