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(LA Times)   Utah: We won't recognize your gay marriage* *except for purposes of joint tax returns   (latimes.com) divider line 21
    More: Strange, Utah, joint tax returns, same-sex couples, same-sex marriages, United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, Gary Herbert, joints  
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698 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jan 2014 at 12:58 PM (13 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-17 11:58:05 AM
Well that won't make things more confusing at all, will it?
 
2014-01-17 12:23:00 PM
Utah has announced that same-sex couples who were married at the end of 2013 will be eligible to file joint state tax returns

Yeah, that usually happens when you get married.  They'll also be able to visit each other in the hospital, share joint ownership of property, and have all the other things married people have.  Shocking, but true.
 
2014-01-17 12:23:52 PM

EvilEgg: Well that won't make things more confusing at all, will it?


You do know that joint tax returns have nothing to do with marijuana, yes?
 
2014-01-17 12:32:39 PM
The wedge that'll shatter their stance. The state recognizes the marriages.
 
2014-01-17 01:02:19 PM
sullydish.files.wordpress.com

Utah has flipped on legally recognizing same-sex relationships. The battle is over.
 
2014-01-17 01:08:08 PM

Marcus Aurelius: EvilEgg: Well that won't make things more confusing at all, will it?

You do know that joint tax returns have nothing to do with marijuana, yes?


Don't be a dope.
 
2014-01-17 01:08:45 PM
There had to be a money angle to this. I have no idea what it is, but somehow they figured out they would collect more revenue by making this ruling. That's my opinion, anyway.
 
2014-01-17 01:17:39 PM
 I don't understand why people are so confused about this. The federal judge made a ruling, the marriages went ahead. The SC decided he ruled too broadly, so there was a stay put in place while everything was appealed. The thing is that for that 10 days or so, those marriages WERE legal. Utah is recognizing the ones that went through while it was legal, which means exactly what it sounds like. They were legal temporarily, and THOSE marriages will still be recognized, regardless of the outcome, because they were legal at the time. It's like when they establish a death penalty, people who were already in prison can't get the death penalty assigned to them if it wasn't a valid punishment when they were convicted and sentenced.


Give it 6 months, and we'll have a better picture of the outcome. Most likely, people here will realize that the Wasatch fault didn't open up and swallow the state whole, so most likely, it's not the end of the world. The younger generation of Mormons(20's and early 30's) is completely unlike previous generations anyway, and so things will eventually change, they don't see gay people as being "yucky" like the old white dudes currently in charge do.

I like how everyone is confused like Utah is acting differently than any of the other states that have opposed gay marriage. Relax, sit back, and let things happen, it will, just like it is happening elsewhere, since Utah isn't the only state that has fought this.
 
2014-01-17 01:21:12 PM

Mikey1969: I don't understand why people are so confused about this... Utah is recognizing the ones that went through while it was legal, which means exactly what it sounds like. They were legal temporarily, and THOSE marriages will still be recognized, regardless of the outcome, because they were legal at the time.


Why it's confusing is that the Utah AG and governor have explicitly said that they won't recognize any of THOSE marriages:
"Based on counsel from the Attorney General's Office regarding the Supreme Court decision, state recognition of same-sex marital status is ON HOLD until further notice," said the governor's Chief of Staff Derek Miller in a letter to cabinet officials.
"The original laws governing marriage in Utah return to effect pending final resolution by the courts," said the letter from the governor's office. "It is important to understand that those laws include not only a prohibition of performing same-sex marriages but also recognizing same-sex marriages."
 
2014-01-17 01:22:22 PM
Utah has already lost. I don't know anyone here under 35 that is against gay marriage. Even the young Mormons seem to be grudgingly accepting of it.
 
2014-01-17 01:24:26 PM
Assholes.
 
2014-01-17 02:08:31 PM
Money, the thing that's so confusing is that for two weeks, Utah said these couples were married. Then the state decided to change its mind and told these people that their .marriages were all annulled. And now the Utah taxman is saying something else. Christian Nationalists: you think the government shouldn't be allowed to change the definition of marriage? Well guess what - you'be given the state the power to unilaterally decide for itself to issue you a divorce. How's that for a redefinition?
 
2014-01-17 02:11:21 PM

Theaetetus: Mikey1969: I don't understand why people are so confused about this... Utah is recognizing the ones that went through while it was legal, which means exactly what it sounds like. They were legal temporarily, and THOSE marriages will still be recognized, regardless of the outcome, because they were legal at the time.

Why it's confusing is that the Utah AG and governor have explicitly said that they won't recognize any of THOSE marriages:
"Based on counsel from the Attorney General's Office regarding the Supreme Court decision, state recognition of same-sex marital status is ON HOLD until further notice," said the governor's Chief of Staff Derek Miller in a letter to cabinet officials.
"The original laws governing marriage in Utah return to effect pending final resolution by the courts," said the letter from the governor's office. "It is important to understand that those laws include not only a prohibition of performing same-sex marriages but also recognizing same-sex marriages."


Wow, I don't even know how they think they can do this, but I think it's doomed to failure on their part.
 
2014-01-17 02:28:54 PM

Mikey1969: Theaetetus: Mikey1969: I don't understand why people are so confused about this... Utah is recognizing the ones that went through while it was legal, which means exactly what it sounds like. They were legal temporarily, and THOSE marriages will still be recognized, regardless of the outcome, because they were legal at the time.

Why it's confusing is that the Utah AG and governor have explicitly said that they won't recognize any of THOSE marriages:
"Based on counsel from the Attorney General's Office regarding the Supreme Court decision, state recognition of same-sex marital status is ON HOLD until further notice," said the governor's Chief of Staff Derek Miller in a letter to cabinet officials.
"The original laws governing marriage in Utah return to effect pending final resolution by the courts," said the letter from the governor's office. "It is important to understand that those laws include not only a prohibition of performing same-sex marriages but also recognizing same-sex marriages."

Wow, I don't even know how they think they can do this, but I think it's doomed to failure on their part.


Yeah, Utah basically farked themselves going forward by allowing those marriages before getting that hold in place.
 
2014-01-17 02:30:23 PM

Mikey1969: Wow, I don't even know how they think they can do this, but I think it's doomed to failure on their part.


Which is why they're backing down now.  They can stop performing marriages while the stay is in place; that makes sense and has sound legal footing.  But they can't - legally - arbitrarily decide to ignore legal marriages that happened.  While the whole due process and equal protection aspects of same-sex marriage itself are complex, saying to a segment of the population, "no, we're not going to recognize the marriage you did legally and by the books just because we don't want to" is a huge frikkin' 14th Amendment violation in any book.

This is them trying to save face before a federal judge shreds them.
 
2014-01-17 02:45:41 PM
It's probably because Utah law, like that of some other states, simply states that state joint eligibility is a product of federal joint eligibility. Because the Feds recognize the marriages, they say you can file jointly, and even though UT doesn't recognize the underlying marriage, they do recognize that you're validly filing a joint federal tax return and so are automatically eligible to file a joint state tax return. I'm willing to be this is exactly the guidance their lawyers and/or the UTAG office provided when they looked at the relevant UT statutory text providing for joint filing. It's just a product of the weird way state income taxes piggy-back on the federal income tax system.
 
2014-01-17 02:49:08 PM

obenchainr: This is them trying to save face before a federal judge shreds them.


That's pretty much going to happen no matter what now. What they're doing, like some other states have done, is simply following the pre-existing law which says that eligibility to file jointly for state taxes flows from the ability to file jointly on the main federal income tax return. Utah isn't recognizing these marriages, it's recognizing the valid joint federal tax returns.
 
2014-01-17 02:54:25 PM

SN1987a goes boom: Mikey1969: Theaetetus: Mikey1969: I don't understand why people are so confused about this... Utah is recognizing the ones that went through while it was legal, which means exactly what it sounds like. They were legal temporarily, and THOSE marriages will still be recognized, regardless of the outcome, because they were legal at the time.

Why it's confusing is that the Utah AG and governor have explicitly said that they won't recognize any of THOSE marriages:
"Based on counsel from the Attorney General's Office regarding the Supreme Court decision, state recognition of same-sex marital status is ON HOLD until further notice," said the governor's Chief of Staff Derek Miller in a letter to cabinet officials.
"The original laws governing marriage in Utah return to effect pending final resolution by the courts," said the letter from the governor's office. "It is important to understand that those laws include not only a prohibition of performing same-sex marriages but also recognizing same-sex marriages."

Wow, I don't even know how they think they can do this, but I think it's doomed to failure on their part.

Yeah, Utah basically farked themselves going forward by allowing those marriages before getting that hold in place.


I still would expect this pretty much in any state that was fighting Gay marriage. Like I said, this will blow over, and now Utah won't be the last state to accept it. I'm just not sure what people expected to happen.
 
2014-01-17 04:03:24 PM
This piecemeal bullshiat is farking stupid, and only continues to prove how farking stupid all of the bans were in the first place.  For fark's sake, stop farking around with people's civil lives and pick something else to worry over.
 
2014-01-17 04:26:49 PM

Theaetetus: Mikey1969: I don't understand why people are so confused about this... Utah is recognizing the ones that went through while it was legal, which means exactly what it sounds like. They were legal temporarily, and THOSE marriages will still be recognized, regardless of the outcome, because they were legal at the time.

Why it's confusing is that the Utah AG and governor have explicitly said that they won't recognize any of THOSE marriages:
"Based on counsel from the Attorney General's Office regarding the Supreme Court decision, state recognition of same-sex marital status is ON HOLD until further notice," said the governor's Chief of Staff Derek Miller in a letter to cabinet officials.
"The original laws governing marriage in Utah return to effect pending final resolution by the courts," said the letter from the governor's office. "It is important to understand that those laws include not only a prohibition of performing same-sex marriages but also recognizing same-sex marriages."


just a side note here, i think they're probably also re-iterating that they're still not recognizing marriages performed anywhere else, either...
 
2014-01-18 11:04:34 AM

Serious Black: Utah has flipped on legally recognizing same-sex relationships.


Several of those look to more "right at tipping point" rather than "flipped", but your point still stands.

I wonder if it's a by-product of Utah having lots of Mormons, who tend to have lots of kids, skewing the age distribution of the state from the national into the more tolerant demographic.
 
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