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(io9)   What medieval armor worn by women really looked like; Skyrim modders clutching their knees are disappointed   (io9.com) divider line 155
    More: Interesting, Late Middle Ages Reconsidered, Byzantine, French Army, Joan of Arc, knees, J.M. Blythe, Canterbury  
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25198 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 5:41 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-16 08:49:11 PM  
Why are we discussing realistic armor for a fantasy game?

Enjoy, let go.
 
2014-01-16 08:51:33 PM  

Spraynard Krueger: VladTheEmailer: Creoena: The real question is what the battle squirrels were wearing:

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x342]

Or Battle Guinea Pigs...
[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 255x198]

Or battlecats!


I think the thread has already covered armoured pussy.
 
2014-01-16 08:52:47 PM  

VladTheEmailer: Spraynard Krueger: VladTheEmailer: Creoena: The real question is what the battle squirrels were wearing:

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x342]

Or Battle Guinea Pigs...
[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 255x198]

Or battlecats!

I think the thread has already covered armoured pussy.


Barely covered in most cases.
 
2014-01-16 09:03:54 PM  

PillsHere: zzrhardy: The sort of games/literature/comics that has skimpily armor clad women is aimed at men generally. Who cares what women think, they aren't the intended target audience.

It's like a guy picking up some romance novel aimed at women - you know with a shirtless Fabio on the front or some shiat, and complaining that all the ultra perfect male protagonists who will literally die if they don't get the girl are unrealistic. Who cares, read/watch/play something else.

Not everything is aimed at everyone, nor should it have to be.

While I'm not a woman who cares about scantily glad characters in video games as I personally choose them if there is that option.  I would like to say that fantasy games are wildly popular with women too.  It isn't a man's game/genre so to speak anymore.

But really this issue is rarely about the specific game or whatever the medium is.  I think the issue most women have is that women are portrayed like that in all forms of art/media no matter what the genre or target demographic is and it can get tiresome as not only is it saying "every woman looks like this or should look like this" but also that women should be seen as nothing more than sexual objects no matter the situation.  While I know a lot of guys don't give a crap about that as they think it's just the way it is, I'm merely explaining the women's side of things.

/This is a topic that rarely gets my ire anymore so I'm not even sure why I'm commenting in this thread.


Meanwhile, over in the Trace Adkins thread there's a bunch of women talking about how the singing caveman in tight jeans makes them wet.

MY EYES ARE UP HERE, LADY!
 
2014-01-16 09:04:08 PM  

ravenlore: VladTheEmailer: Spraynard Krueger: VladTheEmailer: Creoena: The real question is what the battle squirrels were wearing:

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 512x342]

Or Battle Guinea Pigs...
[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 255x198]

Or battlecats!

I think the thread has already covered armoured pussy.

Barely covered in most cases.


Not that there's anything wrong with that..
 
2014-01-16 09:10:27 PM  
If I wanted to see the armor women really wore, I'd watch the History channel not Game of Bones.
 
2014-01-16 09:16:52 PM  
who the fark cares, everyone likes to look at hot chicks in things that make them look hot
 
2014-01-16 09:19:33 PM  

BolloxReader: scottydoesntknow: Corvus: What my video games are unrealistic??!?!?

Next thing they'll tell me the dragons in Skyrim aren't like actual real dragons!!!

Heh, ummmm they actually aren't real dragons. They're Wyverns


Yes, and in the art book and behind-the-scenes DVD the art staff says as much.

[i.imgur.com image 822x1000]

That has always fascinated me. Dragons with four limbs plus wings would have to be in a completely different evolutionary trouser leg than most other beings. They clearly have articulated skeletons, but we have no examples of normally six limbed creatures with articulated skeletons in the real world. There are of course all sorts of multiple limbed critters but not vertebrates. It's easy to point to "magical mutations" like various chimera and driders and the like, but dragons are rarely placed in that category.

I always wonder... where are the rest of the six (or eight) limbed critters that are close relations to dragons? Certainly there would be an entire part of the ecosystem that should be along the same basic architecture-- six limbed vertebrates of natural and ancient pedigree. It could be argued that they are "living fossils" but even with modern living fossils we can find commonalities in basic form with other creatures of more recent origin. They have a place that can be pointed to, where we can say "This is where they forked, and they have continued on successfully."

Wyverns are far easier to explain, morphologically. They make a lot more sense compared to dragons. Scary, flying dinosaur. You can picture that. It makes anatomical sense. You don't need to toss in a bunch of other six or eight limbed vertebrates for verisimilitude. That wyvern? Pure, classical animal.


My hypothesis is that they'd branch off either as a sub-phylum or supra-class, thus making them distinct from reptiles but more closely related than they are to mammals or any other vertebrate.

Now, on the six-legged vertebrate front...  If we're going to talk dragon taxonomy, we may as well include other mythical creatures.  Griffons, hippogriffs, pegasi, sphinxes, and harpies all count as six-limbed vertebrates.  Coincidentally, all of them feature four 'traditional' limbs and a pair of wings as well.
 
2014-01-16 09:22:04 PM  
Its ok for females to not have full plate like males.

this is becuase female characters are inherently dextrous.

With all the bonus modifiers to hit them, they can take a pounding with light armors.

I mean look at the dexterity required for this maneuver..
 
2014-01-16 09:22:08 PM  
No Casca? Fark, I am disappoint.

img.fark.net

img.fark.net

img.fark.net
She's a proper badass, too. Second in command of the Band of the Hawk, respected and feared by the rest of BotH, and only outclassed as a mercenary by Guts and Griffith.

Berserk is a farking amazing comic. Read it, don't watch. The anime is a shortened version of the story and leaves out critical parts that are important to the later manga story. Skip past the initial few chapters and go right into the Golden Age Saga. It starts at chapter 9.
 
2014-01-16 09:23:48 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: baconbeard: This is what male armour looked like though, right?




I don't know what you're complaining about, it's not like young boys could develop a skewed perception of body image from something like that.


oh, holy hell. I was a tween watching that nearly every weekday and I knew that he was not realistic. and I'm not even that smart.
 
2014-01-16 09:25:19 PM  
 
2014-01-16 09:27:46 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: No Casca? Fark, I am disappoint.

[img.fark.net image 706x1024]

[img.fark.net image 458x640]

[img.fark.net image 850x799]
She's a proper badass, too. Second in command of the Band of the Hawk, respected and feared by the rest of BotH, and only outclassed as a mercenary by Guts and Griffith.

Berserk is a farking amazing comic. Read it, don't watch. The anime is a shortened version of the story and leaves out critical parts that are important to the later manga story. Skip past the initial few chapters and go right into the Golden Age Saga. It starts at chapter 9.


And if I recall, tentacle-raped to death.

In the meantime, armor in games? It's not about what's Practical. Games aren't "Look at how historically accurate we are", if they were, you'd die of dysentery in Call of Duty. Or never jump off a building into a haybale and walk away from it in Ass Creed. It's an ARTFORM. 

Does that artform objectify its characters? Yes, it does. That's the POINT. And the characters that catch the eye are made to do so for a reason. So that you will notice them more, pay more attention, and follow along better.
 
2014-01-16 09:35:50 PM  

PillsHere: I would like to say that fantasy games are wildly popular with women too


If they were so wildly popular with females, you'd have 50 Shades of Grey Online instead of Wold of Warcraft. Target audience determines the product. If another 20% or less people also like something then it is a bonus but they aren't going to risk alienating the core 80% by markedly changing the product.  Marketers know their shiate, and they work on hard numbers rather than anecdotes or political correctness.

Seriously, if girl gaming was such a huge thing (actual numbers, not anecdotes) we wouldn't even be having this discussion as we would be drowning in "chic games". Actually, we probably would. If 90% of games were aimed at broads, then they would likely still be biatching about the last 10%.

"Age of Conan online has bare breasts! I demand you take this out and put in more shoes... and kitchens, ones you can decorate yourself"
 
2014-01-16 09:38:16 PM  

baconbeard: Monkeyhouse Zendo: baconbeard: This is what male armour looked like though, right?


Isn't that because young boys are smart enough to know the difference between fantasy and reality?


Heh the P90X Double-Insanity Face Melter MAN SYSTEM begs to differ with you.
 
2014-01-16 09:38:26 PM  

vharshyde: And if I recall, tentacle-raped to death.


***SPOILERS***

Raped, yes. Tenticle, no. Dead, no.

She's alive. She's mentally checked out right now but quite alive. What she went though is enough to mind fark anyone. Hopefully she'll get her mind back eventually.
 
2014-01-16 09:39:25 PM  
While I don't object to the various scantily clad women and men being posted, I feel compelled to point out that TFA wasn't about fantasy women in skimpy, barely there armor.  It was about the problems of full armor that includes big sculpted tits on the breastplate, so those pictures of people in loincloths and bikinis and whatall have basically nothing to do with it.
 
2014-01-16 09:52:24 PM  
Clearly the awesome skimpy armor is magical, and protects them well. Certainly works some magic on me.

If anything in any fantasy setting sounds crazy, it's easily explained by magic.

Anything in Scifi can be explained by advanced alien technobabble.
 
2014-01-16 09:52:28 PM  
img.fark.net

She will part your head from your body and sh*t down your neck.
 
2014-01-16 10:02:36 PM  
You Farkers are slipping, this thread needs more armored female cosplayers


spe.fotolog.com

Aribeth
0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com
Morrigan
afantasycometrue.files.wordpress.com

Minsc after equipping the  Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity

fc02.deviantart.net

Aveline
 
2014-01-16 10:41:23 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: No Casca? Fark, I am disappoint.

[img.fark.net image 706x1024]

[img.fark.net image 458x640]

[img.fark.net image 850x799]
She's a proper badass, too. Second in command of the Band of the Hawk, respected and feared by the rest of BotH, and only outclassed as a mercenary by Guts and Griffith.

Berserk is a farking amazing comic. Read it, don't watch. The anime is a shortened version of the story and leaves out critical parts that are important to the later manga story. Skip past the initial few chapters and go right into the Golden Age Saga. It starts at chapter 9.


....And what happens to her again, remind us? Go on, tell us more.
 
2014-01-16 11:29:53 PM  

BenJammin: Actual armor women of that time wore.

[freethoughtblogs.com image 408x336]


Her poop would come out like Play-Doh press mold thingies.

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-16 11:36:35 PM  

RevMark: Her poop would come out like Play-Doh press mold thingies.


why does every Fark thread end up with poop?
 
2014-01-16 11:54:20 PM  

rogue49: Why are we discussing realistic armor for a fantasy game?

Enjoy, let go.


It isn't about realism, it's about the message it sends. Think about it: We don't put all male characters on display this way. Their primary value is not being sexy. Their primary value is their capabilities and their personality. The first thing (and sometimes only thing) a woman is judged by is her looks.

It would be nice if female characters in games could really be equal to male characters. After all, our fantasies reflect our internal models.
 
2014-01-17 12:03:48 AM  

zzrhardy: PillsHere: I would like to say that fantasy games are wildly popular with women too

If they were so wildly popular with females, you'd have 50 Shades of Grey Online instead of Wold of Warcraft. Target audience determines the product. If another 20% or less people also like something then it is a bonus but they aren't going to risk alienating the core 80% by markedly changing the product.  Marketers know their shiate, and they work on hard numbers rather than anecdotes or political correctness.

Seriously, if girl gaming was such a huge thing (actual numbers, not anecdotes) we wouldn't even be having this discussion as we would be drowning in "chic games". Actually, we probably would. If 90% of games were aimed at broads, then they would likely still be biatching about the last 10%.

"Age of Conan online has bare breasts! I demand you take this out and put in more shoes... and kitchens, ones you can decorate yourself"


"A new study reports that women make up 45 percent of all gamers and 46 percent of all "habitual video game purchasers." In fact, adult women make up 31 percent of the video game population and boys under 17 only make up 19 percent. And in a study by Magid Advisors of people ages 45 to 64, about 61 percent of women play video games compared with only 57 percent of men. "

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/06/13/actually-about-half-of-gamers- ar e-women/
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf
 
2014-01-17 12:17:17 AM  

PillsHere: zzrhardy: PillsHere: I would like to say that fantasy games are wildly popular with women too

If they were so wildly popular with females, you'd have 50 Shades of Grey Online instead of Wold of Warcraft. Target audience determines the product. If another 20% or less people also like something then it is a bonus but they aren't going to risk alienating the core 80% by markedly changing the product.  Marketers know their shiate, and they work on hard numbers rather than anecdotes or political correctness.

Seriously, if girl gaming was such a huge thing (actual numbers, not anecdotes) we wouldn't even be having this discussion as we would be drowning in "chic games". Actually, we probably would. If 90% of games were aimed at broads, then they would likely still be biatching about the last 10%.

"Age of Conan online has bare breasts! I demand you take this out and put in more shoes... and kitchens, ones you can decorate yourself"

"A new study reports that women make up 45 percent of all gamers and 46 percent of all "habitual video game purchasers." In fact, adult women make up 31 percent of the video game population and boys under 17 only make up 19 percent. And in a study by Magid Advisors of people ages 45 to 64, about 61 percent of women play video games compared with only 57 percent of men. "

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/06/13/actually-about-half-of-gamers- ar e-women/
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf


Only if you count Candy Crush as a game.
 
2014-01-17 12:50:27 AM  

ennuie: rogue49: Why are we discussing realistic armor for a fantasy game?

Enjoy, let go.

It isn't about realism, it's about the message it sends. Think about it: We don't put all male characters on display this way. Their primary value is not being sexy. Their primary value is their capabilities and their personality. The first thing (and sometimes only thing) a woman is judged by is her looks.

It would be nice if female characters in games could really be equal to male characters. After all, our fantasies reflect our internal models.


Usually a male in a skimpy outfit or armor is explain away as a male power fantasy. For example, He-Man in this very thread. Just as skimpy as most chain or plate bikinis, but still.
 
2014-01-17 01:02:04 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: PillsHere: zzrhardy: PillsHere: I would like to say that fantasy games are wildly popular with women too

If they were so wildly popular with females, you'd have 50 Shades of Grey Online instead of Wold of Warcraft. Target audience determines the product. If another 20% or less people also like something then it is a bonus but they aren't going to risk alienating the core 80% by markedly changing the product.  Marketers know their shiate, and they work on hard numbers rather than anecdotes or political correctness.

Seriously, if girl gaming was such a huge thing (actual numbers, not anecdotes) we wouldn't even be having this discussion as we would be drowning in "chic games". Actually, we probably would. If 90% of games were aimed at broads, then they would likely still be biatching about the last 10%.

"Age of Conan online has bare breasts! I demand you take this out and put in more shoes... and kitchens, ones you can decorate yourself"

"A new study reports that women make up 45 percent of all gamers and 46 percent of all "habitual video game purchasers." In fact, adult women make up 31 percent of the video game population and boys under 17 only make up 19 percent. And in a study by Magid Advisors of people ages 45 to 64, about 61 percent of women play video games compared with only 57 percent of men. "

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/06/13/actually-about-half-of-gamers- ar e-women/
http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

Only if you count Candy Crush as a game.


Yep.

I think there's a difference between a 'gamer' who flings birds while on the toilet and someone who spends 30+ hours a week in an MMO.
 
2014-01-17 01:02:43 AM  
static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-01-17 01:26:44 AM  
This is my friend Tabitha, a LARPer and Cosplayer :)

scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2014-01-17 02:06:42 AM  
Boris (Vallejo) is famous for painting girls in metal bikinis.
img.fark.net
But he gets a pass because the boys weren't wearing much of anything either and it was almost always in a setting where a giant monster was about to be fought.

Girls don't have to be dominatrixes or masculine to wear reasonable armor.  As a matter of fact there's an entire website called  Women Fighters In Reasonable Armor that proves that girls can still be sexy while wearing protection.
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-17 02:36:39 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Only if you count Candy Crush as a game.


rustypouch: Yep.

I think there's a difference between a 'gamer' who flings birds while on the toilet and someone who spends 30+ hours a week in an MMO.


"Usuf Mehdi, corporate vice president of Microsoft's Interactive Entertainment Business, shared some Xbox 360 stats during the conference in Southern California yesterday.  Mehdi said that 38 percent of Xbox users are women."

http://www.geekwire.com/2013/dudes-38-xbox-users-female-51-kids/

"A 2010 study by the Entertainment Software Association had found that the percentage of women playing online had risen to 42%, up several percent since 2004. The same 2010 study showed that 46% of game purchasers were female, and this figure increased to 48% by 2012"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_video_games

It's probably increased since then.

"Much of that is due to the growing popularity of social and mobile games like "Angry Birds," "Farmville," "Minecraft," and "Candy Crush" - addictive casual games that can be played on smartphones or tablets and don't require a heavy commitment of tens of hours to play. More than half of all social and mobile gamers are women, according to industry research firm EEDAR, but surprisingly as many as 30% of women play more violent games like "Halo," the group found. "Call of Duty" counts around 20% femme players, while "Grand Theft Auto" is around 15% for the whole franchise, their creators say. "

http://variety.com/2013/digital/features/womengamers1200683299-12006 83 299/

So yes women do play a lot of casual games like Candy Crush, but those demographics are changing.  I mean just looking at the studies between the 80's and 2013 there are huge changes and increases.

However, if we go to the original example of WoW, from 2009:

"Here's an interesting bit of info from the Nielsen folks: over 400,000 women are playing World of Warcraft in the US, which means it's the most-played "core" game for that gender. And even more interesting, females 25 years or older make up the largest block of PC game players overall, and they account for 54.6% of all gameplay minutes in December of last year. Girls don't just play  WoW -- they're quickly becoming one of it's main demographics. "

"males still make up a huge part of the PC gaming audience, many of them have now moved on to consoles, and women (especially older women, over 25), during the last month of last year, are making up a huge audience for PC games. Later in the report, you can see what kinds of games women are really playing:  Solitare, Freecell, Minesweeper, and all of those other little attention grabbers on every PC. But among those widespread casual games is our own  World of Warcraft. And while the 25-52 male audience of 675, 713 for that game still remains larger than the female audience in the same demo, the ladies aren't far behind. "

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-ga me -by-25-54-females/

So in short, the demographics have changed significantly since the beginning of the last console generation, the invention of smart phones, and the rise in popularity of MMO's.  I'm not saying we're the majority, but we also aren't exclusively playing Candy Crash and Angry Birds.

/I only care so much because I'm a game designer and a female gamer who plays almost every genre and platform.  I know I'm not typical, but it's important to me to know who's playing what.  Plus I know so many women who play such a variety of games this topic always makes me laugh when I hear "women don't play real games."
/Meh not that I'm going to convince any farkers anything they don't already believe.
 
2014-01-17 02:52:51 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-17 03:30:54 AM  

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 850x452]


This is WoW.
img174.imageshack.us
 
2014-01-17 04:06:59 AM  
if you're going to wear armor, wear armor that actually provides protection from blades and maybe arrows.
 
2014-01-17 04:13:10 AM  

CtrlAltDestroy: No Casca? Fark, I am disappoint.

Berserk is a farking amazing comic. Read it, don't watch. The anime is a shortened version of the story and leaves out critical parts that are important to the later manga story. Skip past the initial few chapters and go right into the Golden Age Saga. It starts at chapter 9.


Caska hasn't been in armor for what? 15 years now?  Tell Miura to stop taking 3 month breaks between chapters so that she can get back to armor before he dies of old age.
 
2014-01-17 04:48:01 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-01-17 04:49:20 AM  

Mouser: Evans points to the tale of Margaret of Beverley, a woman who did indeed participate in the defense of Jerusalem while the city was under siege by Saladin during the Third Crusade.  Margaret's brother wrote that she wore a cooking pot on her head while she brought water to the men on the walls. Although her behavior is described as man-like, and Evans notes that it seems entirely plausible that anyone might find a cooking pot a handy piece of armor in a siege, he wonders if Margaret's headgear was invented to make her seem more womanly, or to create an absurd visual of a woman in war, using a woman's tools to defend herself.

I don't know about you, but I'd think twice about going up against someone wearing a pot on their head and armed with an assortment of kitchen knives and other potentially lethal cookware.


jolstatic.fr
 
2014-01-17 05:02:51 AM  
I have trouble taking an article seriously that uses the term "platemail". Saying platemail is like using a term like "standard automatic transmission". Plate is plate, and mail is mail. You might have mail reinforced with solid plates at vulnerable areas, or, conversely, a plate harness with mail covering up various spots which opened up as you moved, but historically "platemail" was a term invented by 19th century writers, as was "chainmail".
 
2014-01-17 06:26:26 AM  

cynicalbastard: I have trouble taking an article seriously that uses the term "platemail". Saying platemail is like using a term like "standard automatic transmission". Plate is plate, and mail is mail. You might have mail reinforced with solid plates at vulnerable areas, or, conversely, a plate harness with mail covering up various spots which opened up as you moved, but historically "platemail" was a term invented by 19th century writers, as was "chainmail".


I almost bit. Nice.
 
2014-01-17 08:34:50 AM  

Beerguy: And to be fair, skimpy armor isn't just represented in medieval armor.

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 717x960]


Quit playing in your armour and clean up that mess, then make me a sandwich.
 
2014-01-17 09:39:50 AM  

ZeroCorpse: Yes. And male warriors are always depicted in full-body covering, of course. . .

...
Sorry, but this complaint just needs to stop. It's called the FANTASY genre for a reason.


Should I point out that there's many real cases where men would go into battle bare-chested (usually a cultural thing, though if you were one of those cultures, chances are you were soon to be slaughtered by Romans)... but none where women would?

Those representations of shirtless males at least have some serious basis in history (as they're usually the "barbarian" sort, ie., Conan).
Of course, this was by no means common, but it did happen.
 
2014-01-17 09:49:22 AM  

stuffy: If I wanted to see the armor women really wore, I'd watch the History channel not Game of Bones.


Seriously?

I wouldn't put my money on the History Channel in that matchup.

/unless it's gotten a lot less shiatty in the last few years without me noticing it
 
2014-01-17 09:52:53 AM  

zzrhardy: PillsHere: I would like to say that fantasy games are wildly popular with women too

If they were so wildly popular with females, you'd have 50 Shades of Grey Online instead of Wold of Warcraft. Target audience determines the product. If another 20% or less people also like something then it is a bonus but they aren't going to risk alienating the core 80% by markedly changing the product.  Marketers know their shiate, and they work on hard numbers rather than anecdotes or political correctness.


You're adorable.
 
2014-01-17 09:57:52 AM  

cynicalbastard: I have trouble taking an article seriously that uses the term "platemail". Saying platemail is like using a term like "standard automatic transmission". Plate is plate, and mail is mail. You might have mail reinforced with solid plates at vulnerable areas, or, conversely, a plate harness with mail covering up various spots which opened up as you moved, but historically "platemail" was a term invented by 19th century writers, as was "chainmail".


Ah, there it is...the medieval equivalent of the modern clip/magazine argument.

Bless you guys for trying, but I think you're fighting losing battles there.
 
2014-01-17 10:01:40 AM  

scottydoesntknow: Corvus: What my video games are unrealistic??!?!?

Next thing they'll tell me the dragons in Skyrim aren't like actual real dragons!!!

Heh, ummmm they actually aren't real dragons. They're Wyverns

[i.imgur.com image 822x1000]


The Oriental 4-legged wingless dragon would like a word with you.

/not sure how it flies w/o wings, but it seems to manage...
 
2014-01-17 10:05:23 AM  

nymersic: ZeroCorpse: Yes. And male warriors are always depicted in full-body covering, of course. . .

...
Sorry, but this complaint just needs to stop. It's called the FANTASY genre for a reason.

Should I point out that there's many real cases where men would go into battle bare-chested (usually a cultural thing, though if you were one of those cultures, chances are you were soon to be slaughtered by Romans)... but none where women would?

Those representations of shirtless males at least have some serious basis in history (as they're usually the "barbarian" sort, ie., Conan).
Of course, this was by no means common, but it did happen.


I didn't realize Conan was historically accurate...
 
2014-01-17 11:18:25 AM  

baconbeard: I didn't realize Conan was historically accurate...


Har har.  No, the idea of the "barbarian horde" rushing into battle shirtless (perhaps naked) isn't something mythical, and it's these sorts of guys that inspired the shirtless barbarian warrior fantasy archetype.  My point is it's really not entirely fantastical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_warfare
Obviously the "berserkers" were famous for this, but I see mentioned in that the Helvetii, which I think I remember hearing that Caesar mentioned in his Commentaries went into battle shirtless, or something like that.  I'm sure there were dozens of tribes for whom this was the standard.

There's nothing like this in history that supports women wearing skimpy armor though, obviously, so there's a real difference between the two.
 
2014-01-17 12:18:05 PM  
Plenty of skimpy outfits for dudes.  Another example...

www.trueachievements.com
 
2014-01-17 01:02:34 PM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Darwinian dragons probably evolved from a common ancestor with really large shoulder blades.


Their forelimbs wouldn't work if the shoulder blades were themselves articulable.  Nothing for the deltoids and lats to anchor to.  So, no, that's an evolutionary pathway to vestigial, not functional forelegs.

That's always bugged me about angels, they would need an entirely extra set of skeletal processes for the musculature that articulates the wings, and there's just no place for that on the torso.

But, you know, miracles and such like...

I mean, it has to be miraculous, how else could these poor bastards get around?

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