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(Huffington Post)   Drug companies won't let you use their products to execute people anymore, do you C) mix up your own brew and hope it doesn't leave people gasping and choking for 15 minutes before they die   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 615
    More: Sick, Dennis McGuire, federal public defender, TV star, official receiver, Hard Rock Hotel, Howard K. Stern, Biggie Smalls, Allen Bohnert  
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9555 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 2:59 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-16 04:21:24 PM

EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.


Yep. It's revenge, not punishment. Makes us no better than them. You can imprison them for much less money if they're on death row, and through a chain-gang, they can actually contribute to society again. We have the ability to protect our society from convicted criminals without murdering them.
 
2014-01-16 04:21:25 PM

you are a puppet: And as you stated, the arson clues were evidence "at the time" of his trial; at the time of his execution, not so much.


There were almost two dozen clues of arson.  About half of them have since been found to also occur in non-arson fires.  That leaves about a dozen clues of arson that are STILL clues of arson and about a dozen that are 90% likely to be arson.  If something has a 10% chance of happening... the chance of it happening 10 times in a row are 1 in 10,000,000,000 which is way more certainty than you can get from DNA tests... and thats without considering the other forensic evidence of arson that is STILL evidence of arson and all the other non-forensic evidence.  It is quite certain that some people have been wrongly convicted of arson, but Willingham wasn't one of them.
 
2014-01-16 04:21:29 PM

WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?


I'm ok with this guy getting the death penalty because he deserved it. That has nothing to do with the fact that cruel and unusual punishment is banned by the constitution. This was a form of torture which is banned
 
2014-01-16 04:21:30 PM

you are a puppet: the money is in the banana stand: -Abolish the Death Penalty
-Bring back Labor Camps
-Heavily scrutinize Labor Camps to ensure no illegal profiteering is occurring
-Folks unable to perform manual labor will perform something non-physical
-Trades and Skills taught to all inmates
-Inmates must pay for their stay by working
-Those with more valuable skills or that show strong signs of work ethic, receive proportionate benefits.

Change 'inmates' to 'citizens' and let's have some fun!


How is this cruel or unusual? How it is administered may be, but I am not advocating that.
 
2014-01-16 04:22:13 PM
give me doughnuts:No. If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy with  all death peanlty convictions, then there should be no death penalty.

I agree.

Which is why it was spectacular that this guy was executed.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2014-01-16 04:22:15 PM

Bf+: GBB: Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.

You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.


Bullshiat.


Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.


...Says the pro-torture guy.


And where did I indicate that I was pro-torture?
What filter of lenses are you looking through, bud?
 
2014-01-16 04:23:26 PM
What about bleach?  How long would nice big intravenous bleach injection take to kill a guy?
 
2014-01-16 04:23:43 PM

Warlordtrooper: WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?

I'm ok with this guy getting the death penalty because he deserved it. That has nothing to do with the fact that cruel and unusual punishment is banned by the constitution. This was a form of torture which is banned


I'm pretty sure the guy you replied to is arguing his opinion, versus what is law.
 
2014-01-16 04:23:44 PM

lennavan: Who the fark are you to tell him what will or will not help the hurt?


Well, since that is the point of the justice system and the law...
 
2014-01-16 04:23:48 PM

orclover: [www.cageyfilms.com image 300x140]

/nothing obscure



I remember this but I can't quite place it.
 
2014-01-16 04:24:06 PM

lennavan: That said, while I'm not an MD, it seems pretty likely it wasn't that cruel considering he was given a strong dose of an anesthetic. It's kind of like the cases of brain dead people still on ventilators like Terry Schiavo or that Jahi McMath girl. Sure their body might be physically doing things but that doesn't mean they're alive or feel any pain or anything like that.


I dunno, seems like the standard for "can feel pain" is a bit squishy these days.

// squishy like an 18-week-old fetus
// but yes, we should wait for the medicos to figure out whether (e.g.) there is lots of cortisol in the deceased's bloodstream (stress hormone = stress ?= pain) before making a Federal case out of it
 
2014-01-16 04:24:56 PM

EyeballKid: lennavan: Who the fark are you to tell him what will or will not help the hurt?

Well, since that is the point of the justice system and the law...


Uh yeah, that is actually most definitely a big component of the justice system.  You do know victims get to make impact statements that judges use to hand down sentences, right?
 
2014-01-16 04:27:02 PM

ChipNASA: Somacandra: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.

I say morphine, then guillotine, and then dynamite.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 181x300]

If he gets up and walk away after that, then he's Casca Longinus and you'll never kill him anyway.

I had the entire series minus a few books back in the 1990s.

AWESOME Series.


I read several of them. They were fun. Nerdy flashback stuff like this Is one of the things I love most about Fark.

Everytime I see somebidy in a film miraculously heal (The Crow, Terminator, Highlander, Wolverine etc.) I always think 'well you shouldn't have killed that jew you jerk'.
 
2014-01-16 04:27:52 PM
Ohio officials used intravenous doses of two drugs, the sedative midazolam and the painkiller hydromorphone, to put McGuire to death for the 1989 rape and fatal stabbing of a pregnant woman, Joy Stewart.

And why should i give a ripe fark if this piece of shiat suffers before croaking? I don't, and ill bet the relatives of the victim dont either. I would bet, that they wish he suffered more. I'm sure his victim felt terror and pain as he raped and murdered her and her baby. This was a piece of shiat they flushed. Don't expect me to shed tears that he "gasped" and "felt fear". fark him, and fark his scumbag lawyers.
 
2014-01-16 04:28:53 PM

WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?


I see the "the state should be at least as brutal as psychotic criminals" brigade has shown up.

Because that always ends so well.
 
2014-01-16 04:29:18 PM

never trust a bunny: I'm astonishedoso many people in this thread are whining about sympathy for this guy. Most are saying kill him humanly but by all means kill him. I don't really see that as sympathy. For the record I vote guillotine.


A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"
 
2014-01-16 04:29:37 PM
A bullet to the back of the head is much easier and quicker. One thing the Soviets got right.
 
2014-01-16 04:29:52 PM
The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  Any nation with a justice system that does not include capital punishment is guilty of human-rights violations.
 
2014-01-16 04:30:26 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: And why should i give a ripe fark if this piece of shiat suffers before croaking? I don't, and ill bet the relatives of the victim dont either. I would bet, that they wish he suffered more. I'm sure his victim felt terror and pain as he raped and murdered her and her baby. This was a piece of shiat they flushed. Don't expect me to shed tears that he "gasped" and "felt fear". fark him, and fark his scumbag lawyers.


I think the idea is that we should have compassion for every human being (except unborn fetuses), no matter what, and thus it is wrong to kill anyone.

I guess I've got a hell of a lot less respect for the lives of people that commit heinous crimes, or attempt to hurt and injure me and mine, and don't give a shiat if we cleanse the system of those who would likewise do something bad to others again.
 
2014-01-16 04:32:02 PM

Dr Dreidel: I dunno, seems like the standard for "can feel pain" is a bit squishy these days.


It heavily depends on what specific case you are thinking of.

Dr Dreidel: // squishy like an 18-week-old fetus


That is an amazingly "squishy" case, I agree.  Midazolam is used to put you to sleep for surgery and hydromorphone is a morphine derivative, widely used pain relief drug.  You can't ask a fetus "can you feel this" or "are you awake."  But you can ask millions of different adult surgery patients over years and years of usage whether or not they can feel pain before/after hydromorphone.

Dr Dreidel: // but yes, we should wait for the medicos to figure out whether (e.g.) there is lots of cortisol in the deceased's bloodstream (stress hormone = stress ?= pain) before making a Federal case out of it


Yeah, considering they are used commonly for surgery and other patients, I don't think we need to put much study into it.  That's why I'm saying, I highly doubt that guy was anything other than a vegetable making noises after the first few moments.
 
2014-01-16 04:32:13 PM
C) mix up your own brew and hope it doesn't leave people gasping and choking for 15 minutes before they die

Truth be told, they couldn't care less.
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 04:32:18 PM

GBB: Bf+: GBB: Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.

You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.


Bullshiat.


Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.


...Says the pro-torture guy.

And where did I indicate that I was pro-torture?
What filter of lenses are you looking through, bud?



Apologies, I confused you with the person who Boobiesed, "I hope he did suffer", (to which you replied.)  Sorry.
My main point is that the only purpose of the death penalty is tortuous vengeance.  All the replies focused on the fault of his children for being present.  However, I stand by my bullshiat call-- I don't think innocent relatives deserve to watch, or even have to know about a botched (or otherwise) execution, and I never implied they should.
 
2014-01-16 04:32:21 PM

lennavan: give me doughnuts:No. If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy with  all death peanlty convictions, then there should be no death penalty.

I agree.

Which is why it was spectacular that this guy was executed.



And you are just as positive about every other person currently on death row?
 
2014-01-16 04:33:09 PM
www.the-frat-pack.com
 
2014-01-16 04:33:19 PM
knobmaker: overdosing on anesthetics and pain meds is as bad as being anally raped and stabbed to death.

I disagree.
 
2014-01-16 04:33:31 PM

TheWhoppah: The right to seek revenge is a basic human right. Any nation with a justice system that does not include capital punishment is guilty of human-rights violations.


3/10

You're really not very good at this.
 
2014-01-16 04:33:32 PM

Coder: A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"


My ethics system boils down to:

Is he a nice guy? Yes/no
Is his condition the result of his own actions? yes/no
Was he capable of understanding the consequences of his own actions? yes/no
Is he legitimately sorry for what he did? Yes/no
Will he do it again? Yes/no
Does his existence pose a threat to others? Yes/no


Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.
 
2014-01-16 04:33:57 PM

you are a puppet: TheWhoppah: DarkSoulNoHope: The good thing to do is drag it out for all the people who may have been falsely convicted, because I know Texas has killed a couple of innocent people.

More Willingham bullshiat?  The evidence of his guilt is overwhelming, regardless of what the Net Yorker magazine does to sell subscriptions.  I'll give you that Carl DeLuna in 1989 might have been innocent.  But most of those innocence claims from Texas are pure bullshiat.  Texas did have a bunch of RAPE exhortations because Dallas saved all the rape kits going back into the 1970s and then went back and DNA tested all of them.  Every other city in the nation disposed of their old rape kits so there was nothing left to test... so Texas gets a black-eye over it.  I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

How do you define overwhelming? IIRC the only actual evidence was the later disputed arson report? Unless you're including the Led Zeppelin posters and snake tattoos as evidence. Or his cowardice.


It did not help Willingham's case that he was able to *shout* a twelve-syllable sentence seconds after he said he spent what appears to have been at least a minute or two negotiating his way around the inside of his burning house in smoke so thick that he couldn't see.

http://ignoranting.blogspot.com/2004/12/innocent-man-dying-how-texas -e xecuted.html  (pro-Willingham source, btw)

Funny how his lungs were so functional at a time when most of us would have been choking and gasping on ash.

I would not have executed Willingham--I think he deserved life in prison for what he did--but I'm convinced that he was guilty.
 
2014-01-16 04:34:15 PM

hardinparamedic: I don't mean to harsh anyone's mellow in here, but to be perfectly fair, his symptoms were exactly what happens when a person is given a massive overdose of narcotics, namely snoring and agonal respiration. And something tells me that he wasn't aware of anything around him, let alone the fact he was choking to death.

The only difference between this and previous executions is that they don't use the paralytic to mask the symptoms, and the potassium bolus to cause cardiac arrest.

Sounds like the State got exactly what they wanted.

However, it's hard for me to feel sorry for a man who raped and murdered a pregnant woman with a knife. He still died far easier than she did.


But it's still the media's job to bring their personal feelings into reporting, so the rest of us can form an unbiased opinion.
 
2014-01-16 04:36:15 PM

give me doughnuts: lennavan: give me doughnuts:No. If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy with  all death peanlty convictions, then there should be no death penalty.

I agree.

Which is why it was spectacular that this guy was executed.


And you are just as positive about every other person currently on death row?


Nope.

But I am about this guy.  So yay, some raping murdering asshole is dead.
 
2014-01-16 04:36:52 PM
The combination of an opiate (hydromorphone) + a benzodiazepine (midazolam) is pretty common for anesthesia in the hospital for minor procedures.  Anyone who's had a colonoscopy or other similar exam has probably had some combination of these drugs (fentanyl would probably be more common than hydromorphone, but midazolam would probably still be used).
 
2014-01-16 04:37:33 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: And why should i give a ripe fark if this piece of shiat suffers before croaking? I don't, and ill bet the relatives of the victim dont either. I would bet, that they wish he suffered more. I'm sure his victim felt terror and pain as he raped and murdered her and her baby. This was a piece of shiat they flushed. Don't expect me to shed tears that he "gasped" and "felt fear". fark him, and fark his scumbag lawyers.


Yeah, let's build our justice system around that sentiment...
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2014-01-16 04:38:23 PM

Bf+: GBB: Bf+: GBB: Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.

You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.


Bullshiat.


Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.


...Says the pro-torture guy.

And where did I indicate that I was pro-torture?
What filter of lenses are you looking through, bud?


Apologies, I confused you with the person who Boobiesed, "I hope he did suffer", (to which you replied.)  Sorry.
My main point is that the only purpose of the death penalty is tortuous vengeance.  All the replies focused on the fault of his children for being present.  However, I stand by my bullshiat call-- I don't think innocent relatives deserve to watch, or even have to know about a botched (or otherwise) execution, and I never implied they should.


Gotcha.  I've been guilty of mis-reading replies as well.

I agree with your point on the death penalty and raise you that that the entirety of the justice system is revenge.  Revenge is even in the bible (Eye for an eye).
And no, they didn't need to watch.  My reply was that they shouldn't have been there.  But, I also don't know the circumstances.  How old were they?  Did the have a choice, or were they in-tow?
 
2014-01-16 04:39:32 PM

Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.


You tend to see the brighter side of things don't you?
 
2014-01-16 04:39:44 PM

Kit Fister: Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.



"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien
 
2014-01-16 04:41:19 PM
Between this and what happened to the cops who beat the homeless guy to death... fear level is rising. justice system will be pretty much dead in 10 years.
 
2014-01-16 04:43:41 PM
Punishment way better than the death penalty:

Supermax isolation.  23.5 hour lockdown.  Other half hour can be spent showering or shuffling in a 10'x4' dog run.  No human contact ever.  Bland food delivered by mask wearing, silent guard.  No books, TV, radio, or stimulation of any kind.  No visitors.  No pillow.  No window. Just a 2" thick foam mat, concrete, and a steel crapper/sink.  Forever.

Way cheaper than the death penalty and guaranteed to drive any person insane.  And deemed perfectly legal.  Just set it and forget it.

Yes, the lawyer can visit, but only until the appeals are exhausted, and because this would be a garden variety prison term and not an execution, the appeals process would end quickly and the bastard wouldn't enjoy death row "cause celebre" status.
 
2014-01-16 04:43:55 PM
I don't know how lesser states handle death penalty cases but in Texas you get a FREE attorney off a special death penalty list and that attorney gets whatever resources or experts they need to prepare an adequate defense.  You don't just get any old tax or real-estate lawyer... you get a free criminal law specialist lawyer that has agreed to defend death penalty cases.  And a free automatic appeal if you are sentenced to die.  Plus the state pays for additional appeals in the federal courts if you can't get it reversed in state court.  The legal bills paid by the state are always in the hundreds of thousands if not millions on these things.

Sure some lesser states and nations will put you in prison for life without parole but you don't get nearly the protection against being wrongly convicted.  They just lock you up and throw away the key.  At least in Texas you've got a fighting chance for freedom.
 
2014-01-16 04:44:20 PM
Fine, bring back the electric chair.    Much cooler way to die anyway.  For the mass murderer obsessed with his own legend, how do you think he wants it to end?  getting the needle and nodding off to sleep or being strapped to old sparky.
 
2014-01-16 04:44:34 PM

Kit Fister: Coder: A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"

My ethics system boils down to:

Is he a nice guy? Yes/no
Is his condition the result of his own actions? yes/no
Was he capable of understanding the consequences of his own actions? yes/no
Is he legitimately sorry for what he did? Yes/no
Will he do it again? Yes/no
Does his existence pose a threat to others? Yes/no


Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.


And I largely agree with you. But killing them is enough. Put them to death quick, clean, painless. No justice system worth its name inflicts unnecessary suffering to satiate blood-lust.
 
2014-01-16 04:44:42 PM
He was from Ohio, he probably wanted to die anyways.
I know I would if I lived in Ohio.
 
2014-01-16 04:45:21 PM

EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.


The entire concept of "war" would like a word with you.
 
2014-01-16 04:46:15 PM

TheWhoppah: I don't know how lesser states handle death penalty cases but in Texas you get a FREE attorney off a special death penalty list and that attorney gets whatever resources or experts they need to prepare an adequate defense.  You don't just get any old tax or real-estate lawyer... you get a free criminal law specialist lawyer that has agreed to defend death penalty cases.  And a free automatic appeal if you are sentenced to die.  Plus the state pays for additional appeals in the federal courts if you can't get it reversed in state court.  The legal bills paid by the state are always in the hundreds of thousands if not millions on these things.

Sure some lesser states and nations will put you in prison for life without parole but you don't get nearly the protection against being wrongly convicted.  They just lock you up and throw away the key.  At least in Texas you've got a fighting chance for freedom.


That's actually really good evidence there why the Death Penalty is such a costly thing, way more costly than just locking someone up for life.
 
2014-01-16 04:46:24 PM
This guy was given a whopping dose of Versed.  There was no suffering on his part.  None.  He was fully unconscious/unaware in seconds.

His family, unfortunately, did suffer.
 
2014-01-16 04:46:55 PM
img.fark.net

To those who say its cruel and unusual  .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.
 
2014-01-16 04:47:03 PM

sore_bluto: Way cheaper than the death penalty and guaranteed to drive any person insane.


The ONLY reason this is cheaper is that the state doesn't spend NEARLY as much on defense.  In other words, innocent people are much more likely to end up on LWOP than being executed.
 
2014-01-16 04:49:53 PM

BigOle8point: If you don't like the death penalty, too bad

vote.
 
2014-01-16 04:49:56 PM

BigOle8point: [img.fark.net image 205x246]

To those who say its cruel and unusual  .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.


From your own bio:

The Fark comments section used to be the hands down best on the web. Current state is people being dicks to each other. I hate you all for ruining what was once a very witty, very funny comments section.

I see you've changed your mind.
 
2014-01-16 04:49:56 PM
Fark this guy,  they should've waterboarded him, bled him a little and then fed him slowly to a pen of unfed pigs.  Honestly people.  He deserves to rot in hell.

Subby -2 for the improper use of the Sick tag and of course flounting liberal ideals that are not tied to any sort of common sense.
 
2014-01-16 04:50:10 PM
0-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
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