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(Huffington Post)   Drug companies won't let you use their products to execute people anymore, do you C) mix up your own brew and hope it doesn't leave people gasping and choking for 15 minutes before they die   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 614
    More: Sick, Dennis McGuire, federal public defender, TV star, official receiver, Hard Rock Hotel, Howard K. Stern, Biggie Smalls, Allen Bohnert  
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9557 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 2:59 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-16 04:04:12 PM  
I'm astonishedoso many people in this thread are whining about sympathy for this guy. Most are saying kill him humanly but by all means kill him. I don't really see that as sympathy. For the record I vote guillotine.
 
2014-01-16 04:04:16 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: WTFDYW: r1niceboy: WTFDYW: I'm ok with this jpg.

But are you absolutely confident that every single person in the US on death row is there legitimately? Would you be okay with doing this to someone because the cops wanted to get back to their donuts, and the DA was making a run for congress?

When the DNA says you did it, you DID it. Thanks for playing. Please come back later.

You didn't answer the question.

So here's another one: is it OK to only execute poor people?


Do you know of any rich people who have raped and murdered eight month pregnant women? Rich people are rich because they have more to do than kill and maim people.
 
2014-01-16 04:06:45 PM  
This thread is what happens when you don't explain to your children before reading them Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" or letting them watch "The Running Man" what a cautionary tale is.
 
2014-01-16 04:06:54 PM  
TEAM DOUBLE TAP!!!
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 04:07:05 PM  

WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.


durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.


GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.


You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.
 
2014-01-16 04:07:07 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: So we can go with my other idea, then.

You have to admit that it might be considered "unusual".


The Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the use of "cruel and unusual" punishment. Punishments therefore may be cruel or unusual, so long as they are not both simultaneously.
 
2014-01-16 04:07:47 PM  

WTFDYW: Do you know of any rich people who have raped and murdered eight month pregnant women? Rich people are rich because they have more to do than kill and maim people.


You must have missed the whole affluenza epidemic recently.
 
2014-01-16 04:07:52 PM  

Ghastly: I just love that the people who are all "get government outta our lives" are all "get government into our deaths". This experiment was cruel and barbaric regardless of what this man's crimes were. The death penalty is not the act of a civilized society.


I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_L%C3%B3pez_%28serial_killer%29
 
2014-01-16 04:09:01 PM  

theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?


Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:03 PM  

Kit Fister: I'm OK with his definition of a justice system. Remove those who commit the worst, most atrocious crimes from society and from the face of the earth. Permanent cold storage. We have enough humans on this planet that those who do especially evil things deserve to be removed from it.


Even ignoring the wrongness of that, the notion that a victim should automatically become an arbiter of right and wrong is insane.

Vengeance and justice are not the same thing.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:26 PM  

NEDM: Random Anonymous Blackmail: So you wanted him to die in a more humane way than his victim.. F that.

He does not deserve the right to die a comfortable, painless death.

The 8th Amendment to the United States Constitution says you are 100% wrong.  When the state is executing a horrible criminal for his crimes, it is SUPPOSED to be akin to putting down a rabid dog.  Permanently removing someone from society for a crime so horrible that he should pay for it with his life.  Cold and emotionless.  It is not supposed to be farking torture.  You want to torture a man to death for being a living piece of garbage?  Move to the Congo.  I'm sure there are loads of acceptable targets for you to whit your bloodlust on there.

And before you ask why I care so much about this...thing instead of its victim, I don't.  He can burn in Hell for all I care.  But if we allow the state to start torturing people who it deems fit to death, well, that's it then.  We will have become no better than the worst totalitarian dictatorships of history.  It's easy to say that a "man" who raped and murdered a pregnant woman has such a fate coming, but who's to say that the acceptable range of criminals to inflict such a punishment on doesn't grow?

/of course, some people actually think that capital punishment shouldn't be something our government is in the process of doling out
//One can have all the compassion in the world for the victim while still upholding the mores of civilization.  Despite what you might have been told, you do not have to let yourself become a monster to fight monsters.



Can you point to the part in the 8th amendment where it says that there can't be pain?  You are equating the prohibition on cruelty with a prohibition on pain. Surely excessive pain would be prohibited but saying that any method can't have any pain whatsoever is probably stretching the meaning beyond what the founders intended.  Especially given the methods of execution available back when the Constitution was written.  Then we had hanging as the primary method that could leave an individual dangling and suffocating if there was a mistake in the knot placement that snapped the neck.  Firing squad may have also been used which could provide pain if the marksmen were not completely accurate.  The Guilotine was in use in France and while supposedly painless was also highly graphic. So looking historically, pain while not an aim of the execution, could be an expected byproduct. It just should be minimized where possible.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:28 PM  

theflatline: [...]  He then explained that because she was so pregnant, it was difficult to engage in sex with her, so instead he anally sodomized her. Joy then became "hysterical," which made McGuire nervous. He ended up killing Joy for fear that he would go to jail for raping a pregnant woman.



dameron: [...] One day the U.S. will get over this bloodthirsty urge and join the rest of the civilized world. Hopefully this thread will be archived somewhere so the grandchildren of certain posters in this thread can see what kind of savages they were when they were young and stupid.


No nation is civilized if they DON'T execute a man for raping and killing a woman who is eight months pregnant.  If you can't execute scumbag subhumans like that then your society is not civilized.
You don't value the life of your own citizens.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:30 PM  
Giant re-enforced pit, drop them in.

Drop a fire grenade once a year to clean the place up and prevent stacking.


Easy, cheap, virtually no maintenance.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:46 PM  

TheWhoppah: Why should execution be painless?  That seems like a stupid prerequisite.


You mean, aside from the Eighth Amendment?
 
2014-01-16 04:09:48 PM  

lennavan: They are saying the least torturous way possible should be the goal but if shiat happens along the way, well it's happening to people like this raping murderer so "meh." Don't mistake indifference for support.


Which also runs counter to Amendment the Eighth. If the government "accidentally" deprives people of their First or Second Amendment rights (aside from the person generally remaining alive), they're guilty of violations and have to make it right.

McGuire's dead, and he was a murdering criminal fartypants, so no one cares.

// which is sad for several reasons
// justice is not about you getting your torture-rocks off, and it's not about "making sure the accused suffers"
// it's about The Law
// [stallone-dredd.gif]
 
2014-01-16 04:09:57 PM  

TheWhoppah: you are a puppet: TheWhoppah: DarkSoulNoHope: The good thing to do is drag it out for all the people who may have been falsely convicted, because I know Texas has killed a couple of innocent people.

More Willingham bullshiat?  The evidence of his guilt is overwhelming, regardless of what the Net Yorker magazine does to sell subscriptions.  I'll give you that Carl DeLuna in 1989 might have been innocent.  But most of those innocence claims from Texas are pure bullshiat.  Texas did have a bunch of RAPE exhortations because Dallas saved all the rape kits going back into the 1970s and then went back and DNA tested all of them.  Every other city in the nation disposed of their old rape kits so there was nothing left to test... so Texas gets a black-eye over it.  I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

How do you define overwhelming? IIRC the only actual evidence was the later disputed arson report? Unless you're including the Led Zeppelin posters and snake tattoos as evidence. Or his cowardice.

Willingham's own explanation for what happened:  I was napping in the back room with Amber when she woke me up yelling about the smoke so I got up and left out the front door.

Three year old Amber's body was found under the covers in the back bedroom.  The path from the back bedroom to the front door would have taken him past the room where the twin infants were sleeping.  Their bodies were found in that room.

So, even if you ignore the half-dozen empty bottles of lighter fluid and the neighbors that reported seeing him outside acting funny peeking in the windows and doors BEFORE any smoke came out of the house... even if you ignore the testimony of the fire investigators that spent 3 days going through the rubble.  Even if you take Willingham's explanation as 100% gospel truth... then he just walked out and left his three kids to die in a fire without even trying to save them... one of whom was in the same room with him and alerted him to the smoke.  The jury obviously didn't ...


I asked for evidence outside of his cowardice. I'm well aware that the reason people have no problem with his execution is because they have no respect for his non-criminal actions that night. I remember a guy who ran away from the Aurora Dark Knight shooting, got in his car and sped off while his fiance was still in the theater. He's a biatch but can we execute him based on that?

And as you stated, the arson clues were evidence "at the time" of his trial; at the time of his execution, not so much. So, the evidence is empty bottles of lighter fluid and him peeking in windows. Not so overwhelming.
 
2014-01-16 04:10:53 PM  

EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.


They even made a crappy movie about it with John Leguizamo, the fake Puerto Rican.
 
2014-01-16 04:10:59 PM  
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, 'I drank what?'
 
2014-01-16 04:11:55 PM  
Body part banks?

A part is removed for each person they killed?
 
2014-01-16 04:12:17 PM  

special20: Maybe I was wrong... our capital punishment technology can borrow from the past and do pretty well. Plus it helps out a whole bunch of starving circus elephants who I care for more than I do a rapist/murderer.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 414x600]


Circus so slay?
 
2014-01-16 04:12:24 PM  

theflatline: EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.

They even made a crappy movie about it with John Leguizamo, the fake Puerto Rican.


Bennie Blanco from the Bronx?
 
2014-01-16 04:12:42 PM  

Skiffy: TheWhoppah: Why should execution be painless?  That seems like a stupid prerequisite.

You mean, aside from the Eighth Amendment?


At the time that was written, criminals were drawn and quartered.  It was painful and it was legal.  It might have been cruel but it wasn't unusual.
 
2014-01-16 04:13:05 PM  

TheWhoppah: No nation is civilized if they DON'T execute a man for raping and killing a woman who is eight months pregnant. If you can't execute scumbag subhumans like that then your society is not civilized.
You don't value the life of your own citizens.


What if he was sent through time because the unborn child was to be the next Hitler?
 
2014-01-16 04:13:26 PM  

gja: Somewhere, somehow, there has to be enough of a base, visceral fear instilled into people to stop them from committing atrocities like murder.


Perhaps for some people there needs to be that, but that's not why I don't kill people.  I don't kill people because I have a sense of right and wrong.  Okay, and because I don't think I could ever get away with it.  But the whole morality aspect of it does play a factor too.
 
2014-01-16 04:14:09 PM  
seansturm.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-16 04:14:42 PM  
I should have a problem with capitol punishment, I just don't.  Some people are just broken.  No amount of wanting to be fair or wishing really hard can fix them.  It seems less humane to keep a truly broken person in prison for the rest of their natural lives (extended by medication, no less).  A short, quick execution - bullet, cyanide - and the world is automatically a better place less the expense.
 
2014-01-16 04:14:45 PM  

EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.


You just promised to not argue against capital punishment with a single anecdote about an innocent person on death row.  You get that, right?
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 04:14:47 PM  
This thread:
fitnessintuition.com
 
GBB
2014-01-16 04:14:48 PM  

Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.


You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.  Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.
 
2014-01-16 04:14:58 PM  

imfallen_angel: TheWhoppah: No nation is civilized if they DON'T execute a man for raping and killing a woman who is eight months pregnant. If you can't execute scumbag subhumans like that then your society is not civilized.
You don't value the life of your own citizens.

What if he was sent through time because the unborn child was to be the next Hitler?


Then he did his job and needed to be removed from our timeline before he accidentally changed anything else... so it still worked out for the best.
 
2014-01-16 04:15:03 PM  

you are a puppet: theflatline: EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.

They even made a crappy movie about it with John Leguizamo, the fake Puerto Rican.

Bennie Blanco from the Bronx?


Yep, he claimed his mother was Colombian and his father was puerto rican, but his father was interviewed and both parents were from Bogota.  I saw the interview and his old man is straight up Colombian.
 
2014-01-16 04:15:28 PM  

EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.


It could be 300+ anecdotes.  It's just on how you see it.
 
2014-01-16 04:16:20 PM  

lennavan: EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.

You just promised to not argue against capital punishment with a single anecdote about an innocent person on death row.  You get that, right?


Here are the quotes from the killer.

There is a wonderful moment, a divine moment, when I have my hands around a young girl's throat. I look into her eyes and see a certain light, a spark, suddenly go out.

Her fingers flutter briefly a The moment of death is enthralling and exciting. Only those who actually kill know what I mean. Someday, when I am released, I will feel that moment again. I will be happy to kill again. It is my mission."

 Lopez lulled them with cuddles before raping them at sunrise. He explained: " When the sun rose I would strangle her. It was only good if I could see her eyes. I never killed anyone at night. It would have been wasted in the dark. I had to watch them by daylight."
 
2014-01-16 04:16:31 PM  
-Abolish the Death Penalty
-Bring back Labor Camps
-Heavily scrutinize Labor Camps to ensure no illegal profiteering is occurring
-Folks unable to perform manual labor will perform something non-physical
-Trades and Skills taught to all inmates
-Inmates must pay for their stay by working
-Those with more valuable skills or that show strong signs of work ethic, receive proportionate benefits.
 
2014-01-16 04:16:50 PM  
I don't mean to harsh anyone's mellow in here, but to be perfectly fair, his symptoms were exactly what happens when a person is given a massive overdose of narcotics, namely snoring and agonal respiration. And something tells me that he wasn't aware of anything around him, let alone the fact he was choking to death.

The only difference between this and previous executions is that they don't use the paralytic to mask the symptoms, and the potassium bolus to cause cardiac arrest.

Sounds like the State got exactly what they wanted.

However, it's hard for me to feel sorry for a man who raped and murdered a pregnant woman with a knife. He still died far easier than she did.
 
2014-01-16 04:17:09 PM  

StRalphTheLiar: Oldiron_79: Piece of rope works well and cheaper too.

And 100% recyclable for the next guy.


I'd go with 80%. There is a chance of breakage.
 
2014-01-16 04:18:16 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: -Abolish the Death Penalty
-Bring back Labor Camps
-Heavily scrutinize Labor Camps to ensure no illegal profiteering is occurring
-Folks unable to perform manual labor will perform something non-physical
-Trades and Skills taught to all inmates
-Inmates must pay for their stay by working
-Those with more valuable skills or that show strong signs of work ethic, receive proportionate benefits.


Change 'inmates' to 'citizens' and let's have some fun!
 
2014-01-16 04:18:32 PM  

Somacandra: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.

I say morphine, then guillotine, and then dynamite.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 181x300]

If he gets up and walk away after that, then he's Casca Longinus and you'll never kill him anyway.


I had the entire series minus a few books back in the 1990s.

AWESOME Series.
 
2014-01-16 04:19:05 PM  

Dr Dreidel: lennavan: They are saying the least torturous way possible should be the goal but if shiat happens along the way, well it's happening to people like this raping murderer so "meh." Don't mistake indifference for support.

Which also runs counter to Amendment the Eighth. If the government "accidentally" deprives people of their First or Second Amendment rights (aside from the person generally remaining alive), they're guilty of violations and have to make it right.


I fully support the family's right to sue the state of Ohio on 8th amendment grounds.  That said, while I'm not an MD, it seems pretty likely it wasn't that cruel considering he was given a strong dose of an anesthetic.  It's kind of like the cases of brain dead people still on ventilators like Terry Schiavo or that Jahi McMath girl.  Sure their body might be physically doing things but that doesn't mean they're alive or feel any pain or anything like that.
 
2014-01-16 04:19:09 PM  

lennavan: You just promised to not argue against capital punishment with a single anecdote about an innocent person on death row.  You get that, right?


I guess I'll just to fall back on my having been able to lose my tail, develop thumbs at the end of my hands, and think a little better than my less-evolved ancestors to argue against capital punishment.

But, you think if the bad man hurt, you no hurt more, right?
 
2014-01-16 04:19:22 PM  

lennavan: Lando Lincoln: WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.

This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.

But in this case it was right to do.  You probably want to wait til the next thread to make your case.


No. If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy with  all death peanlty convictions, then there should be no death penalty.
 
2014-01-16 04:19:34 PM  

EyeballKid: This thread is what happens when you don't explain to your children before reading them Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" or letting them watch "The Running Man" what a cautionary tale is.


So you would rather have them rot in a tiny cell for decades then die? Talk about cautoinary tales! You should read 'The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas'.
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 04:20:06 PM  

GBB: Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.

You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.



Bullshiat.


Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.


...Says the pro-torture guy.
 
2014-01-16 04:20:09 PM  

AlgaeRancher: Some suggestions for alternate forms of capital punishment:

1. bear pit
2. piranha tank
3. catapult
4. a very large blender a tire shredder.
5. nitroglycerin water balloon fight
6. whatever they do to put down rabid dogs, if someone wants to live like a sick animal they can die like one.


FTFY
 
2014-01-16 04:20:29 PM  

yanoosh: Could always bring back burning at the stake, sell marshmellows


Are you sure that's environmentally friendly?
 
2014-01-16 04:20:34 PM  

Dimensio: Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: So we can go with my other idea, then.

You have to admit that it might be considered "unusual".

The Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the use of "cruel and unusual" punishment. Punishments therefore may be cruel or unusual, so long as they are not both simultaneously.


Could we have a case citation for this, please, counselor?
 
2014-01-16 04:20:35 PM  

skozlaw: Kit Fister: I'm OK with his definition of a justice system. Remove those who commit the worst, most atrocious crimes from society and from the face of the earth. Permanent cold storage. We have enough humans on this planet that those who do especially evil things deserve to be removed from it.

Even ignoring the wrongness of that, the notion that a victim should automatically become an arbiter of right and wrong is insane.

Vengeance and justice are not the same thing.


The system decides the punishment. If the victim has no issues with the punishment, there is no problem. If the victim takes umbrage with the punishment, let the judge review the punishment. Otherwise, no issues, carry it out after due appeals and reviews.
 
2014-01-16 04:20:50 PM  

Dimensio: I disagree. Executions should in fact be open to the public, and even publicly broadcast.

That may cause a reassessment of popular support for capital punishment.


Who are you kidding? In a country that obsesses over Duck Dynasty and Doomsday Preppers publicly broadcast executions would be the most popular show on TV.
 
2014-01-16 04:21:20 PM  

Tricky Chicken: So you would rather have them rot in a tiny cell for decades then die? Talk about cautoinary tales! You should read 'The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas'.


This. I think it's much less cruel to just kill me than to make me stay isolated in a cell for the rest of my life.
 
2014-01-16 04:21:22 PM  

EyeballKid: lennavan: You just promised to not argue against capital punishment with a single anecdote about an innocent person on death row.  You get that, right?

I guess I'll just to fall back on my having been able to lose my tail, develop thumbs at the end of my hands, and think a little better than my less-evolved ancestors to argue against capital punishment.

But, you think if the bad man hurt, you no hurt more, right?


I have no idea.  I think if the family of the victims want vengeance, that's their right.  I only support capital punishment in cases where there is clear guilt and there is a person who wants vengeance.

Some guy out there had his eight months pregnant fianceé brutally raped and murdered.  Who the fark are you to tell him what will or will not help the hurt?
 
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