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(Huffington Post)   Drug companies won't let you use their products to execute people anymore, do you C) mix up your own brew and hope it doesn't leave people gasping and choking for 15 minutes before they die   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line 614
    More: Sick, Dennis McGuire, federal public defender, TV star, official receiver, Hard Rock Hotel, Howard K. Stern, Biggie Smalls, Allen Bohnert  
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9567 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 2:59 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-16 02:39:51 PM  
I miss the guillotine.
 
2014-01-16 02:41:42 PM  
so, both cruel AND unusual.

farking barbaric.
 
2014-01-16 02:53:31 PM  
So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.
 
2014-01-16 03:00:38 PM  
Piece of rope works well and cheaper too.
 
2014-01-16 03:01:43 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


Mystery to me. Mind you, I don't really favor the death penalty - even if some folks richly deserve it. The methods they use now are just plain idiotic.
 
2014-01-16 03:01:55 PM  
I'm ok with this jpg.
 
2014-01-16 03:02:34 PM  

Oldiron_79: Piece of rope works well and cheaper too.


And 100% recyclable for the next guy.
 
2014-01-16 03:02:34 PM  
Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use
 
2014-01-16 03:02:57 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


And now I need to go re-write my living will...
 
2014-01-16 03:03:43 PM  

super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use


Yeah but there's a pretty long waiting list for hearts.
 
2014-01-16 03:03:46 PM  
QFTA:

A federal judge sided with the state but acknowledged the new method was an experiment.

Please have this judge removed from the bench. This is an idiot. A cruel, nasty idiot.
 
2014-01-16 03:04:05 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?


Or knock them out with it and use cyanide, that'll kill you way faster than 15 minutes.
 
2014-01-16 03:04:41 PM  
What, did they run out of dynamite? That's the way I'd want to go. Pretty messy, though. Might want to take me out into the middle of a field.
 
2014-01-16 03:05:09 PM  
"And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.
 
2014-01-16 03:05:17 PM  
So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....
 
2014-01-16 03:05:19 PM  
Rope, guillotine, firing squad, nitrogen narcosis chamber (apparently no pain like cyanide, no toxic cleanup afterward).  How hard is this people?
 
2014-01-16 03:05:22 PM  
He was convicted 25 years ago? The swift sword of justice, I guess.
 
2014-01-16 03:05:46 PM  
I certainly know we wouldn't try to farking grow up and not satiate our bloodlust through executing people! We have murderboners to beat off, god damn it!
 
2014-01-16 03:05:51 PM  

WTFDYW: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use

Yeah but there's a pretty long waiting list for hearts.


boomheadshot.jpg
 
2014-01-16 03:05:57 PM  
I heard in Russia they told you they needed to take your picture.  Put you in a little booth and tell you to look at the "camera".  Can't get much more "humane" than that.
 
2014-01-16 03:06:27 PM  
Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?
 
2014-01-16 03:06:27 PM  

WTFDYW: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use

Yeah but there's a pretty long waiting list for hearts.


Headshots for the win.
 
2014-01-16 03:07:07 PM  
The Muthaship:
I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

What does it matter, since killing him will magically bring her back to life?

Oh wait...
 
2014-01-16 03:07:39 PM  
I think a bullet behind the ear should the SOP. Cheap, easy, and plenty of people in prisons who would do it for an extra tray at dinner.

If there is any travesty here it's the forgotten pain, anguish, and fear a woman felt as she was raped, beaten, and murdered. While pregnant with child. FFFFFF*ck this animal. SHE is the victim, not him.
 
2014-01-16 03:07:47 PM  
Fkin barbaric is raping and stabbing an 8 months pregnant woman.

So..im ok with this.
 
2014-01-16 03:08:13 PM  

Oldiron_79: Piece of rope works well and cheaper too.


1.bp.blogspot.com

/agrees
//can feel the devil bite his ass
 
2014-01-16 03:08:19 PM  
hypothermia works and is fairly cost effective.
 
2014-01-16 03:08:29 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


I'm curious to know more about humanely imploding human heads.  We routinely accept the euthenasia of animals.  If it's okay for them then it's okay for humans.

Too bad this guy suffered a full 15 minutes, but I imagine he made his victim suffer for at least that long.
 
2014-01-16 03:08:49 PM  

jigger: He was convicted 25 years ago? The swift sword of justice, I guess.


You have the right to a speedy trial (though that seems to be going out the window thanks to budget cutbacks in both prosecution and public defenders), and the right to appeal your sentence. The good thing to do is drag it out for all the people who may have been falsely convicted, because I know Texas has killed a couple of innocent people.
 
2014-01-16 03:08:50 PM  

Oldiron_79: Piece of rope works well and cheaper too.


It tightens up your vocal cords and loosens up your pecs.
 
2014-01-16 03:09:03 PM  
Agonal breathing while someone is dying. I am shocked. SHOCKED.

Honestly though, the guillotine was a marvelous invention. Less than 1 second and it was over, guaranteed. Even firing squad can't guarantee that. PLUS they're great for politicians.
 
2014-01-16 03:09:09 PM  
" put McGuire to death for the 1989 rape and fatal stabbing of a pregnant woman"

Can't really muster a shiat to give.
 
2014-01-16 03:09:23 PM  

The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....


Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.
 
2014-01-16 03:09:38 PM  

for good or for awesome: I heard in Russia they told you they needed to take your picture.  Put you in a little booth and tell you to look at the "camera".  Can't get much more "humane" than that.


Nope in USSR days the execution method if you was on death row your cell had a solid door and then one day when the food tray slot opened instead of your tray coming through the barrel of a pistol did.
 
2014-01-16 03:09:43 PM  
Why in the hell would you want to go see your father executed?  Just collecting baggage for my damaged soul.
 
2014-01-16 03:09:51 PM  

Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.


THIS times eleventy billion
 
2014-01-16 03:09:59 PM  
Good.    He killed a pregnant woman with a knife!     I am sure that he was as concerned about her last moments as some of you fools will be for his.

I don't care if they let pigs eat him to death....don't kill people if you don't want to be killed.
 
2014-01-16 03:10:04 PM  

nmrsnr: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?

Or knock them out with it and use cyanide, that'll kill you way faster than 15 minutes.


It sounds like the guy was unconscious and the snorting and gasping were the body's involuntary reactions.

If this is true then he wasn't aware of any suffering, but the procedure/drugs should be changed.

I feel more empathy for the witnesses.
 
2014-01-16 03:10:25 PM  
boisdejustice.com
Quick, Painless, Flawless.  Why fark around?  If drug companies dont want to be associated with executions then we have plenty of alternatives.  Make sure to publisize it and hold up a sign that says "This needlessly brutal execution brought to you by big pharma, be sure to thank them!"
Also bring back Burning at the stake for kiddy diddlers, we could run round the clock footage of all the states executions on its own cable channel with comercials to make up the cost.

Would be the most viewed channel in farking history, and you farking know it.
 
2014-01-16 03:11:01 PM  

WordsnCollision: Oldiron_79: Piece of rope works well and cheaper too.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 200x166]

/agrees
//can feel the devil bite his ass


BLONDIE!
 
2014-01-16 03:11:03 PM  

super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.


You'd have to automate it. One of the reason they stopped was that the men on the firing squads were (for want of a better word) squeamish, so you got stories of three rounds of volleys from 15 feet that all missed the guys head, so he instead bleeds out very, very painfully.
 
2014-01-16 03:11:26 PM  

WTFDYW: I'm ok with this jpg.


But are you absolutely confident that every single person in the US on death row is there legitimately? Would you be okay with doing this to someone because the cops wanted to get back to their donuts, and the DA was making a run for congress?
 
2014-01-16 03:11:27 PM  
I agree with firing squad; or give 'em a date with a rope. None of this expensive chemical crap. Or, if we have to use chems; potassium cyanide.

/ Actually, why don't we test stuff on death row inmates? We could toss them into the vacuum of space and such
 
2014-01-16 03:11:45 PM  

Kit Fister: WTFDYW: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use

Yeah but there's a pretty long waiting list for hearts.

Headshots for the win.


Yeah, I thought about that, but don't they harvest parts of the brain?
 
2014-01-16 03:11:46 PM  
Should've been a lethal injection of steel like he gave to his victim.

AMF, POS
 
2014-01-16 03:11:58 PM  
If we're GOING to have the death penalty then it really behooves us to do things as humanely as possible. Gasmask seems like a good solution -- give 'em nitrous & oxygen and then cut the oxygen.
 
2014-01-16 03:12:18 PM  
My other headline....

pbs.twimg.com


VS


fc03.deviantart.net
 
2014-01-16 03:13:04 PM  
Dennis McGuire was convicted for the 1989 rape and fatal stabbing of 22-year-old Joy Stewart, who was newly married and pregnant. He tried to have his execution stayed because the jury never heard the full extent of his abuse as a child.

Uh huh. I think that's not a good enough reason to appeal, or change the sentence he received...

Good riddance.

Next!
 
2014-01-16 03:13:06 PM  

Joe Blowme: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

THIS times eleventy billion


Why not both?
 
2014-01-16 03:13:17 PM  

Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.


DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.
 
2014-01-16 03:13:22 PM  
Just gas them w/ nitrous or CO2
 
2014-01-16 03:13:44 PM  
I favor a Hunger Games like capital punishment system.  We take a hundred or so convicts put them in a reserve wired with cameras, and the last one living gets a pardon and is released to live in Hollywood and do the talk show circuit.  The proceeds from the show could go to the families of the victims.

Or you could just jail them for life which I would think is much worse than death.
 
2014-01-16 03:13:53 PM  

super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use


The problem with firing squads is two-fold, though I agree it seems 1000x more merciful than this botched excecution.
1) it leaves most of the firing squad members wondering if they're a murderer for the rest of their life. With poison, at least the 'executioner' gets to tell themselves 'well, i just pressed a button, the timer on the machine did the execution..'
2) basically, it's gruesome for the families of both the victim and the perpetrator. OTOH, compared to this, it's not that gruesome.
 
2014-01-16 03:14:18 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: QFTA:

A federal judge sided with the state but acknowledged the new method was an experiment.

Please have this judge removed from the bench. This is an idiot. A cruel, nasty idiot.


I dunno.  Depends on who they were experimenting on.  Was it a worst-of-the-worst pedophile?  Par for the course.  Went on a serial-killing spree?  Welcome to the "Serial Killer Victim Experience".  Kidnapped / tortured / raped people?  My sympathy meter just broke Trying to register lower than it was able to.  Not feeling very sorry at all for people on death row, especially when the evidence is overwhelmingly proof that they indeed were heinous individuals.  Ted Bundy, for example.  Don't let his looks and charisma fool you.  That's an unrepentant, cold, sadistic, devious person.  Not fixable, and not worth the oxygen he breathed.
 
2014-01-16 03:14:23 PM  

orclover: Quick, Painless, Flawless.  Why fark around?  If drug companies dont want to be associated with executions then we have plenty of alternatives.  Make sure to publisize it and hold up a sign that says "This needlessly brutal execution brought to you by big pharma, be sure to thank them!"
Also bring back Burning at the stake for kiddy diddlers, we could run round the clock footage of all the states executions on its own cable channel with comercials to make up the cost.

Would be the most viewed channel in farking history, and you farking know it.


Who can forget Whitman, Price, and Haddad?
 
2014-01-16 03:14:29 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: QFTA:

A federal judge sided with the state but acknowledged the new method was an experiment.

Please have this judge removed from the bench. This is an idiot. A cruel, nasty idiot.


royals.server310.com
 
2014-01-16 03:14:36 PM  
My inner monologue:

"Gasped and snorted for 15 minutes.....that's awful, he doesn't.....raped and stabbed a pregnant woman....fark  him."
 
2014-01-16 03:14:49 PM  

FlashHarry: so, both cruel AND unusual.

farking barbaric.


It's OK since only poor people go to death row.
 
2014-01-16 03:14:54 PM  
Just shoot them or decapitate them. If necessary shoot them in the head with a stun gun first to be "humane".
 
2014-01-16 03:15:18 PM  
So you wanted him to die in a more humane way than his victim.. F that.

He does not deserve the right to die a comfortable, painless death.
 
2014-01-16 03:15:29 PM  
The fact that we are too incompetent to decide who should be executed aside, why is this so hard? General anesthesia exists. Use it and you can stop the heart however you want.
 
2014-01-16 03:15:31 PM  
I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

/Though if it were up to me we'd have a very very high burden of proof that the person was guilty before actually executing them.   Can't absolutely prove that the person did it, no execution.
 
2014-01-16 03:15:52 PM  
Clearly, our technology needs to advance.
www.themarysue.com
 
2014-01-16 03:16:26 PM  
www.crossfittemecula.com
 
2014-01-16 03:16:40 PM  

Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.


I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.
 
2014-01-16 03:16:46 PM  
I remember in the '70s, an anti-death penalty Senator from Alabama tried to pass legislation requiring all executions to be performed in the University of Alabama football stadium, with a lottery and mandatory attendance, much like jury duty. The executions were to be performed using four horses pulling in different directions, and ropes tied to to the executionee's extremities.

Probably not barbaric enough for today's sophisticated audiences.
 
2014-01-16 03:16:54 PM  
While I am all for the guillotine....I'm also okay with using this piece of shiat as an experimental monkey to see if the cocktail worked...it did.  He's dead?  I'd say we had a successful execution then.  Fark him in the ass with a cactus if he suffered any.  Line up the next 8 or 10 on death row and try some more experimenting...today!
 
2014-01-16 03:16:58 PM  
If we're going to use the death penalty, why don't we use the method that they use for assisted suicide in Oregon?
 
2014-01-16 03:17:07 PM  

WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?


Actually, I was thinking eventually a robot could be programmed to victimize the perp in tge same manner the perp victimized the victim(s), in this case sodomize him and slit his throat. Though 25 years in prison might have solved the sodomy bit.

I think death penalties like that would have more meaning.
 
2014-01-16 03:17:18 PM  

dittybopper: using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light


A very messy light.  With lots of atomized brain matter floating around.
 
2014-01-16 03:17:24 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


Interesting concept.  I like this.
 
2014-01-16 03:17:35 PM  
Reminds me of the Onion video on capital punishment (youtube, nsfw):

JANE CARMICHAEL: Well, Michael, it began this morning when the lawyers for the petition presented for the Court a video taped Lethal Injection that showed an inmate writhing in pain before dying. As the tape played, Justice Kennedy said quote "Whoa!" Justice Alito remarked quote "Holy shiat!" and Justice Ginsburg said quote "That's wicked."

MICHAEL BANNON: And what was the defense counsel's response to that?

JANE CARMICHAEL: Well, following the video, Chief Justice John Roberts said, "While evidence presented to the Court indicates a degree of fallibility in the procedural methods of capital punishment, it is the opinion of this Court that the practice remains hella farkin' balls-to-the-wall awesome." At the point, the decision seemed fairly certain.
 
2014-01-16 03:17:38 PM  

r1niceboy: WTFDYW: I'm ok with this jpg.

But are you absolutely confident that every single person in the US on death row is there legitimately? Would you be okay with doing this to someone because the cops wanted to get back to their donuts, and the DA was making a run for congress?


When the DNA says you did it, you DID it. Thanks for playing. Please come back later.
 
2014-01-16 03:17:57 PM  

Tricky Chicken: I favor a Hunger Games like capital punishment system.  We take a hundred or so convicts put them in a reserve wired with cameras, and the last one living gets a pardon and is released to live in Hollywood and do the talk show circuit.  The proceeds from the show could go to the families of the victims.


Perhaps they could be Released to Elsewhere.
 
2014-01-16 03:18:00 PM  

WTFDYW: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use

Yeah but there's a pretty long waiting list for hearts.


I was watching something and a sniper talked about the quick drop of a body when the brainstem turns to raspberry jam in an instant from their shots. I'm sure that would be sufficient to kill humanely and preserve the internal organs.

Ya know, with the number of people we have on death row... we could start a health club program for them to make their organs as good as possible for when they get harvested. If we continue to just poison the bodies and make the organs unharvestable it's a waste. Except serial killers and mass murderers, that's been the topic of one too many horror movies to gain acceptance.
 
2014-01-16 03:18:03 PM  

WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.


This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.
 
2014-01-16 03:18:19 PM  

Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.


He was too poor to afford good lawyers.  That's how he got the death penalty.
 
gja
2014-01-16 03:18:19 PM  

EyeballKid: The Muthaship:
I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

What does it matter, since killing him will magically bring her back to life?

Oh wait...


I should be completely against capital punishment, but what punishment can possibly serve as a deterrent so assholes stop killing innocent people?

Your point is valid, but if you offer no other choice then the old adage "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" applies, I'm afraid.

Somewhere, somehow, there has to be enough of a base, visceral fear instilled into people to stop them from committing atrocities like murder.
 
2014-01-16 03:18:25 PM  
Funny. I thought the article was about what the state of Ohio did to one of its prisoners. I guess the article was about what a murderer did to victims.

Oops. Same thing.

/the killer was an complete animal. The state of Ohio doesn't need to sink to his level. You can't hold a man (and in this case his actions tend to denigrate that label) unless you linger there with him. More importantly, as other people have posted in this thread, capital punishment has killed many innocent people. The criminal justice system has imprisoned innocent people for sentences of decades, sometimes long enough for them to die in prison. Capital punishment needs to be banned. I don't mind long sentences but when prosecutors can only get elected governor if they are "hard on crime" you are going to have innocent people murdered by the state.
 
2014-01-16 03:19:36 PM  

Odd Bird: nmrsnr: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?

Or knock them out with it and use cyanide, that'll kill you way faster than 15 minutes.

It sounds like the guy was unconscious and the snorting and gasping were the body's involuntary reactions.

If this is true then he wasn't aware of any suffering, but the procedure/drugs should be changed.

I feel more empathy for the witnesses.


Yeah, my outrage at the procedure is more that people had to witness that and not so much that he may or may not have suffered.

/I'm going with the assumption that he was not wrongly convicted, of course
 
2014-01-16 03:19:56 PM  
I don't support the death penalty (because of wrongful convictions) but if we're going to be barbaric, can't we at least make some money off of it? Auction off hunting permits, release the convict in a protected area, and let the games begin. Donate all that money to the treasury and make some of that taxpayer money back. I know what you're thinking...haven't I seen this in the movies before? And the answer is no, in the movies they always put the hunt on PPV, which I'm not suggesting.
 
2014-01-16 03:20:42 PM  
~~put McGuire to death for the 1989 rape and fatal stabbing of a pregnant woman, Joy Stewart.

Why all the sympathy for that murdering POS?  Fark him.  I hope he did suffer, just like his victim.
 
2014-01-16 03:21:05 PM  

Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.


he wasn't.
 
2014-01-16 03:21:16 PM  
He raped and killed a pregnant woman? fark him.
 
2014-01-16 03:21:46 PM  
Ohio officials used intravenous doses of two drugs, the sedative midazolam and the painkiller hydromorphone, to put McGuire to death for the 1989 rape and fatal stabbing of a pregnant woman, Joy Stewart.... a newlywed who was eight months pregnant at the time of her death

So a guy who raped and murdered a girl who was 8 months pregnant suffocated for 15 minutes before he died and I'm supposed to feel bad for him?  I'll see what I can do for you but so far I'm coming up empty here.
 
2014-01-16 03:21:53 PM  
Maybe I was wrong... our capital punishment technology can borrow from the past and do pretty well. Plus it helps out a whole bunch of starving circus elephants who I care for more than I do a rapist/murderer.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-16 03:22:43 PM  

Lando Lincoln: WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.

This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.


But in this case it was right to do.  You probably want to wait til the next thread to make your case.
 
2014-01-16 03:23:22 PM  

Somaticasual: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use

The problem with firing squads is two-fold, though I agree it seems 1000x more merciful than this botched excecution.
1) it leaves most of the firing squad members wondering if they're a murderer for the rest of their life. With poison, at least the 'executioner' gets to tell themselves 'well, i just pressed a button, the timer on the machine did the execution..'
2) basically, it's gruesome for the families of both the victim and the perpetrator. OTOH, compared to this, it's not that gruesome.


I understand what firing squads used to do is to load one or two of the rifles with blanks, so the rifleman could think that he might not have fired the killing shot.  Also, the whole point of having a firing squad is that you're spreading responsibility.

One other thing -- I guess people used to believe in an "honorable death", and that a firing squad delivers such a death, so it's less troubling.
 
2014-01-16 03:23:25 PM  

gja: I should be completely against capital punishment, but what punishment can possibly serve as a deterrent so assholes stop killing innocent people?


There's your primary moral quandary: is the intent of imprisonment to rehabilitate the offender, or to serve as a deterrent for non-offenders? And, where between those two do we have the "so non-offenders can get their rocks off knowing a bad guy's gone" intent?
 
2014-01-16 03:23:52 PM  
I don't support the death penalty and I don't feel sorry for the guy.

I do, however, feel sorry for a society that thinks that any human being can be used as an experiment.
 
2014-01-16 03:24:00 PM  

lennavan: Lando Lincoln: WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.

This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.

But in this case it was right to do.  You probably want to wait til the next thread to make your case.


Certainty of guilt does not automatically make the death penalty "right"
 
2014-01-16 03:24:34 PM  

Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

How, exactly, can justice exist if no petty vengeance, satisfying the basest of primal emotions, is not extracted?

 
2014-01-16 03:24:43 PM  
Draino is pretty cheap. So is antifreeze.
 
2014-01-16 03:24:44 PM  

EyeballKid: The Muthaship:
I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

What does it matter, since killing him will magically bring her back to life?

Oh wait...


No, but it does pretty much guarantee he'll never, ever do it again.
 
2014-01-16 03:25:08 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Funny. I thought the article was about what the state of Ohio did to one of its prisoners. I guess the article was about what a murderer did to victims.


I'm pretty sure Ohio doesn't do this to pickpockets, so the specific type of prisoner here is relevant.  I could be wrong, I don't live in Ohio.
 
2014-01-16 03:25:08 PM  

WTFDYW: r1niceboy: WTFDYW: I'm ok with this jpg.

But are you absolutely confident that every single person in the US on death row is there legitimately? Would you be okay with doing this to someone because the cops wanted to get back to their donuts, and the DA was making a run for congress?

When the DNA says you did it, you DID it. Thanks for playing. Please come back later.


You didn't answer the question.

So here's another one: is it OK to only execute poor people?
 
2014-01-16 03:25:23 PM  

Tricky Chicken: I favor a Hunger Games like capital punishment system.  We take a hundred or so convicts put them in a reserve wired with cameras, and the last one living gets a pardon and is released to live in Hollywood and do the talk show circuit.  The proceeds from the show could go to the families of the victims.

Or you could just jail them for life which I would think is much worse than death.


We tried that already.  It was called Running Man.
 
2014-01-16 03:25:31 PM  

Somaticasual: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use

The problem with firing squads is two-fold, though I agree it seems 1000x more merciful than this botched excecution.
1) it leaves most of the firing squad members wondering if they're a murderer for the rest of their life. With poison, at least the 'executioner' gets to tell themselves 'well, i just pressed a button, the timer on the machine did the execution..'
2) basically, it's gruesome for the families of both the victim and the perpetrator. OTOH, compared to this, it's not that gruesome.


A murderer? Seriously? Knowing several people who've killed criminals, either on the job or in self defense, sleep perfectly soundly at night. They get shook up because they had to shoot, but they have no qualms about having killed a vile, disgusting piece of human filth.
 
2014-01-16 03:25:32 PM  
Could always bring back burning at the stake, sell marshmellows
 
2014-01-16 03:25:37 PM  

EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.


Murder is, by definition, unlawful. Therefore the legally authorized taking of human life -- even with premeditation and malice aforethought -- is not murder.
 
2014-01-16 03:26:03 PM  

ElwoodCuse: lennavan: Lando Lincoln: WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.

This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.

But in this case it was right to do.  You probably want to wait til the next thread to make your case.

Certainty of guilt does not automatically make the death penalty "right"


It does when you're guilty of raping and murdering a pregnant girl and the family of the victim supports it.
 
2014-01-16 03:26:04 PM  
...and make his family pay for the bullet.

///Or quit killing prisoners just in case Big Justice might occasionally fark up. Or give the convict the choice between life on death row or a quick bullet.

//Lawyers and their playbook aside, are we the kind of society that tortures prisoners to death?
 
2014-01-16 03:26:31 PM  

dittybopper: EyeballKid: The Muthaship:
I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

What does it matter, since killing him will magically bring her back to life?

Oh wait...

No, but it does pretty much guarantee he'll never, ever do it again.


THis.
 
2014-01-16 03:26:34 PM  
bwaaa ha ha ha ha ha!
 
2014-01-16 03:27:02 PM  

Lando Lincoln: This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.


2.bp.blogspot.com

"What forest?"
 
2014-01-16 03:27:17 PM  

Dimensio: EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.

Murder is, by definition, unlawful. Therefore the legally authorized taking of human life -- even with premeditation and malice aforethought -- is not murder.


Yep.
 
2014-01-16 03:27:20 PM  

special20: Maybe I was wrong... our capital punishment technology can borrow from the past and do pretty well. Plus it helps out a whole bunch of starving circus elephants who I care for more than I do a rapist/murderer.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 414x600]


Holy hardcore.  You learn something new everyday.
 
2014-01-16 03:27:26 PM  

StRalphTheLiar: Oldiron_79: Piece of rope works well and cheaper too.

And 100% recyclable for the next guy.


Hey you can even use organic pestacide free hemp for the green crowd.
 
2014-01-16 03:27:29 PM  
Some suggestions for alternate forms of capital punishment:

1. bear pit
2. piranha tank
3. catapult
4. very large blender
5. nitroglycerin water balloon fight
6. whatever they do to put down rabid dogs, if someone wants to live like a sick animal they can die like one.
 
2014-01-16 03:27:57 PM  

orclover: Also bring back Burning at the stake for kiddy diddlers


If you're trying to be intentionally brutal burning at the stake isn't really effective.  The victim usually asphyxiates before they burn.
 
2014-01-16 03:27:57 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: The good thing to do is drag it out for all the people who may have been falsely convicted, because I know Texas has killed a couple of innocent people.


More Willingham bullshiat?  The evidence of his guilt is overwhelming, regardless of what the Net Yorker magazine does to sell subscriptions.  I'll give you that Carl DeLuna in 1989 might have been innocent.  But most of those innocence claims from Texas are pure bullshiat.  Texas did have a bunch of RAPE exhortations because Dallas saved all the rape kits going back into the 1970s and then went back and DNA tested all of them.  Every other city in the nation disposed of their old rape kits so there was nothing left to test... so Texas gets a black-eye over it.  I guess no good deed goes unpunished.
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 03:27:57 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine? We know it works, and we know it's painless


I think you just answered your own question.
The purpose of the death penalty isn't to remove a person from society or some such bullshiat.  It is to extract tortuous vengeance upon the person and their loved ones.  Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
 
2014-01-16 03:28:15 PM  
As someone who is anti-death penalty because of the fact that it costs more and our legal system is incompetent at best and biased against the poor and minorities at worst....fark this guy's "suffering"

Since he admitted it and the DNA evidence was there, hang him high!

If there was ANY shred of doubt, I would be in agreement with those posting against this cruel and/or unusual punishment.


/should have thrown him in gen-pop for life
 
2014-01-16 03:28:35 PM  

ElwoodCuse: lennavan: Lando Lincoln: WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.

This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.

But in this case it was right to do.  You probably want to wait til the next thread to make your case.

Certainty of guilt does not automatically make the death penalty "right"


when such guilt is tied to the rape and killing of a young pregnant woman it does.
 
2014-01-16 03:28:55 PM  
Between this and the thread about Mrs. Tannenhill's gun, there are a lot of all-hat-no-cattle-cowboys on Fark.
 
2014-01-16 03:29:27 PM  

Captain Steroid: I miss the guillotine.


^THIS
 
2014-01-16 03:29:30 PM  
I'm against the death penalty, not because I have any issues with a piece of shiat like McGuire dying a prolonged, agonizing death, but because the justice system is so incompetent and corrupt.
 
2014-01-16 03:29:37 PM  

for good or for awesome: I heard in Russia they told you they needed to take your picture.  Put you in a little booth and tell you to look at the "camera".  Can't get much more "humane" than that.


which if fine and dandy if you're the first guy and totally unaware but somehow if what you say is true and therefore common knowledge, I wouldn't exactly call it a comforting thought when the prison guards comes by and tell me it's picture day for me.
 
2014-01-16 03:29:44 PM  

FlashHarry: so, both cruel AND unusual.

farking barbaric.


I dunno, I'd be willing to be people die gasping and choking all the time.  Not that unusual.

Now, for it to really be unusual, you'd have to do something like dress him up in a plaid frock, smother him with elderberry jam and pelt him to death with ravenous badgers while a live band plays 'Nearer My God to Thee' in the background.   That would be unusual.
 
2014-01-16 03:30:29 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Certainty of guilt does not automatically make the death penalty "right"


I think you're going to find that the people who support the death penalty fairly unwavering in their agreement with it.

Like me. There is nothing wrong with killing an attacker, a rapist, or a murderer where proof of guilt is established beyond the shadow of a doubt, and all due care has been exhausted to ensure that nothing is left unchecked.

Likewise, if I see someone raping a woman, or molesting a kid, or doing some other thing of that nature, I will sure as hell have no second thoughts about killing him to stop it.
 
2014-01-16 03:30:36 PM  
Some states (Texas for example) are more concerned with killing someone that making sure they are executing the perpetrator of the crime!  Once a person has been executed the case is closed, if that is the wrong person then the perpetrator of MURDER is free!

I am more in favor of locking people up, escape from anything above a county jail is absurdly rare, and no one has escaped from a supermax.  Then in cases where the convicted is found innocent due to new evidence or misconduct it's fairly straight forward.  Once they're dead, not so much.

In the cases of people (Ted Bundy for example) who are guilty beyond, beyond, beyond.   I propose a new method of execution based on an old method of execution.   three high powered remote controled rifles that point to the heart on the soon to die, the sentence carried out by the state Governor typing in a code that causes the rifles to fire.

If somehow the executed is found to be innocent,  then the governor can be booked for Murder 1, avoiding all those pesky lawsuits.
 
2014-01-16 03:31:05 PM  

Joe Blowme: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

THIS times eleventy billion


I don't understand this at all. You are not responsible for what this piece of shiat did. You are responsible for what the State does in your name. He acted as a monster so the State in our name should also act as a monster? That lowers us to his level. I want my government to be better than this piece of shiat.
 
2014-01-16 03:31:07 PM  

Lawnchair: Rope, guillotine, firing squad, nitrogen narcosis chamber (apparently no pain like cyanide, no toxic cleanup afterward).  How hard is this people?


I've heard the nitrogen method mentioned before. Basically, pure nitrogen (which is about 80% of what we breathe anyway) is used to displace all of the oxygen in the atmosphere of the chamber. Supposedly, it would avoid the reactions associated with toxic gasses, and also prevent the panic reactions associated with a build-up of carbon dioxide in the system, because the body would still be able to expel carbon dioxide.

Lethal injection is rapidly becoming a farce, and makes firing squads and hanging look like good options by comparison.
 
2014-01-16 03:31:30 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


You must have never taken morphine. That shiat burns. It ie far from painless. It just a lot better than the pain you have.
 
2014-01-16 03:31:57 PM  
Do they put they put these guys to sleep at all first?  What keeps one of them from thrashing about and  screaming at the top of their lungs "Please shoot me!!!! The pain is too much!!!!

That's what I would do.
 
2014-01-16 03:32:07 PM  
Its not unusual if we start killing them all that way.
 
2014-01-16 03:32:10 PM  

hobnail: orclover: Also bring back Burning at the stake for kiddy diddlers

If you're trying to be intentionally brutal burning at the stake isn't really effective.  The victim usually asphyxiates before they burn.


I personally like the idea of taking two of the beetles used to strip the flesh off of bones for study and inserting them into the ear canals.
 
2014-01-16 03:32:11 PM  

Intrepid00: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.

You must have never taken morphine. That shiat burns. It ie far from painless. It just a lot better than the pain you have.


It's a good burn.
 
2014-01-16 03:32:38 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

He was too poor to afford good lawyers.  That's how he got the death penalty.


That and the lady apparently made the wrong rape vs murder choice.

/Will this be a direct flight?
 
2014-01-16 03:32:39 PM  
www.cageyfilms.com

/nothing obscure
 
2014-01-16 03:33:01 PM  

EyeballKid: Between this and the thread about Mrs. Tannenhill's gun, there are a lot of all-hat-no-cattle-cowboys on Fark.


500 head of dairy cows on a farm in Wisconsin. You were saying?
 
2014-01-16 03:33:09 PM  

lennavan: It does when you're guilty of raping and murdering a pregnant girl and the family of the victim supports it.


No, it doesn't, and your idea of how a justice system ought to function is insanely terrifying. Thank god nobody ever asked you how things should work and let's hope nobody ever does.
 
2014-01-16 03:33:13 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless


Or put them in an airtight room and flood it with Carbon Monoxide. They'll painlessly pass out in seconds without even knowing the execution has started, and we know it's painless from testimony of people who have survived Carbon Monoxide poisoning, and die very shortly after.

Wait 30 mins or so, vent the room and send the body over to the morgue.
 
2014-01-16 03:33:28 PM  
When was the last time a rich person was executed for their crimes in the US?

Think about that.
 
2014-01-16 03:34:01 PM  
Any justice system that can't impose capital punishment isn't really a justice system at all.
 
2014-01-16 03:34:25 PM  

WhyKnot: ElwoodCuse: lennavan: Lando Lincoln: WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.

This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.

But in this case it was right to do.  You probably want to wait til the next thread to make your case.

Certainty of guilt does not automatically make the death penalty "right"

when such guilt is tied to the rape and killing of a young pregnant woman it does.


If you put extra conditions on it then it's not automatic in the context of the post you were responding to now is it?
 
2014-01-16 03:34:25 PM  
And while we are at it, this FTFA.


   "We have forgiven him, but that does not negate the need for him to pay for his actions," said a statement released by Carol Avery, Stewart's sister, after McGuire's death.

I would not presume to tell her that she should forgive him, but if this is her attitude, she hasn't forgiven him. That makes her statement just a meaningless sound bite.
 
2014-01-16 03:34:40 PM  
It sounds like the guy was under the effect of general anesthesia. The whole point of using general anesthesia in these things: a fallback in case the method itself fails to work properly. It sounds like the fallback worked, but the drug did not, so I'd still call this botched, but not to the point of cruelty.

I guess I'm a bit strange, in that I support the death penalty but not life-without-parole, which I see as far more cruel. That said, I'd support tighter requirements before the death penalty can be applied: hard proof with forensic verification should be necessary, above and beyond the "reasonable doubt" standard needed to convict, or else the maximum sentence is capped at whatever we consider the most severe punishment short of death.
 
2014-01-16 03:34:50 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


The hydrocodone they used is 10 time more powerful than morphine. The procedure should OD him on a powerful sedative, use artificial ventilation to keep him oxygenated, and then stop the heart with sodium bicarbonate solution. After a few minutes the ventilation can be stopped because his brain will be dead.

People rarely ever die in the peaceful way they depict in movies. Almost everyone with at least a bit of a function nervous system will have an agonal response similar to the one described in the FA. This is why executions should not have non-professional witnesses. Certainly not family.
 
2014-01-16 03:35:22 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: So here's another one: is it OK to only execute poor people?


First, how many poor people equals one rich one?
 
2014-01-16 03:35:48 PM  
Why should execution be painless?  That seems like a stupid prerequisite.
 
2014-01-16 03:35:50 PM  

Somaticasual: The problem with firing squads is two-fold, though I agree it seems 1000x more merciful than this botched excecution.
1) it leaves most of the firing squad members wondering if they're a murderer for the rest of their life. With poison, at least the 'executioner' gets to tell themselves 'well, i just pressed a button, the timer on the machine did the execution..'
2) basically, it's gruesome for the families of both the victim and the perpetrator. OTOH, compared to this, it's not that gruesome.


So why not just simply automate it like we do with lethal injection.

If you can press a button and have a machine do all the work for a lethal injection, there is no reason why you can't have a machine that shoots the inmate in the head instead.  Strap them down, use a laser sight to assure the bullet is going to hit the right part of the brain stem, press the button, and at some random time the machine shoots.

/Still thing the implosion idea is better.
 
2014-01-16 03:36:09 PM  

Fano: orclover: Quick, Painless, Flawless.  Why fark around?  If drug companies dont want to be associated with executions then we have plenty of alternatives.  Make sure to publisize it and hold up a sign that says "This needlessly brutal execution brought to you by big pharma, be sure to thank them!"
Also bring back Burning at the stake for kiddy diddlers, we could run round the clock footage of all the states executions on its own cable channel with comercials to make up the cost.

Would be the most viewed channel in farking history, and you farking know it.

Who can forget Whitman, Price, and Haddad?


Last seasons winners.

/waits for correction
 
2014-01-16 03:36:29 PM  

Kit Fister: EyeballKid: Between this and the thread about Mrs. Tannenhill's gun, there are a lot of all-hat-no-cattle-cowboys on Fark.

500 head of dairy cows on a farm in Wisconsin. You were saying?


I was saying your grasp of the language's colloquialisms could be stronger. Wait, I'm sorry, is English your second language?
 
2014-01-16 03:36:30 PM  

JackieRabbit: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.

The hydrocodone they used is 10 time more powerful than morphine. The procedure should OD him on a powerful sedative, use artificial ventilation to keep him oxygenated, and then stop the heart with sodium bicarbonate solution. After a few minutes the ventilation can be stopped because his brain will be dead.

People rarely ever die in the peaceful way they depict in movies. Almost everyone with at least a bit of a function nervous system will have an agonal response similar to the one described in the FA. This is why executions should not have non-professional witnesses. Certainly not family.


I disagree. Executions should in fact be open to the public, and even publicly broadcast.

That may cause a reassessment of popular support for capital punishment.
 
2014-01-16 03:36:32 PM  
I have a few ideas ...
 
2014-01-16 03:36:57 PM  

Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

/Though if it were up to me we'd have a very very high burden of proof that the person was guilty before actually executing them.   Can't absolutely prove that the person did it, no execution.


DNA evidence and a confession is the definition of a high burden of proof being fulfilled. 

You don't want to die a horrible death? Don't rape and kill. Pretty simple really.

TV's Vinnie: When was the last time a rich person was executed for their crimes in the US?

Think about that.


Probably a gangster or drug kingpin of some kind. Just because you are rich doesn't make you better or less likely to get death row. The thing is that most people whom are rich don't commit capital crimes... They just pay someone else to do it.
 
2014-01-16 03:36:57 PM  

jigger: He was convicted 25 years ago? The swift sword of justice, I guess.


And, see, here inlies the problem with capital punishment is in this country.  He's been sitting in jail for 25 years, with more than enough time to regret and repent what he had done.  This to such an extent, that you almost feel sorry for his manner of execution.
I can assure you, if he were executed immediately following the conviction of rape and murder of a pregnant woman, proponents of the death penalty (like myself), would have liked to have seen even MORE pain and suffering.  As it stands, it's just too far after the fact.
 
2014-01-16 03:37:04 PM  
Great job Ohio, now you're probably going to have to pay the man's family millions of dollars, while the victim's family only has their memories. Great 'experiment'

/you know who else did biochem experiments on convicts?
 
2014-01-16 03:37:19 PM  

The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....


Exactly.

I ain't exactly playing a full-sized violin for this idiot.
 
2014-01-16 03:37:23 PM  

Bf+: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine? We know it works, and we know it's painless

I think you just answered your own question.
The purpose of the death penalty isn't to remove a person from society or some such bullshiat.  It is to extract tortuous vengeance upon the person and their loved ones.  Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.


So we can go with my other idea, then.
 
2014-01-16 03:37:25 PM  

LeroyBourne: special20: Maybe I was wrong... our capital punishment technology can borrow from the past and do pretty well. Plus it helps out a whole bunch of starving circus elephants who I care for more than I do a rapist/murderer.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 414x600]

Holy hardcore.  You learn something new everyday.


The Mongols would tie you down and break your back
Some greek city states tossed you into a giant smoker shaped like a bull
 
2014-01-16 03:37:25 PM  

Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.


He farking admitted it.  Get off your soapbox.
 
2014-01-16 03:37:38 PM  

skozlaw: lennavan: It does when you're guilty of raping and murdering a pregnant girl and the family of the victim supports it.

No, it doesn't, and your idea of how a justice system ought to function is insanely terrifying. Thank god nobody ever asked you how things should work and let's hope nobody ever does.


I'm OK with his definition of a justice system. Remove those who commit the worst, most atrocious crimes from society and from the face of the earth. Permanent cold storage.  We have enough humans on this planet that those who do especially evil things deserve to be removed from it.
 
2014-01-16 03:37:47 PM  

skozlaw: lennavan: It does when you're guilty of raping and murdering a pregnant girl and the family of the victim supports it.

No, it doesn't, and your idea of how a justice system ought to function is insanely terrifying. Thank god nobody ever asked you how things should work and let's hope nobody ever does.


I don't know why you're terrified of a justice system that executes raping murderers.  What exactly are you worried about, they'll come back as zombies or what?
 
2014-01-16 03:37:48 PM  

nmrsnr: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

You'd have to automate it. One of the reason they stopped was that the men on the firing squads were (for want of a better word) squeamish, so you got stories of three rounds of volleys from 15 feet that all missed the guys head, so he instead bleeds out very, very painfully.


Easy solution. Open it up to let local NRA gun nut volunteers do it. And give them a little room afterwards so they can go stroke off one.
 
2014-01-16 03:38:36 PM  

TheWhoppah: Any justice system that can't impose capital punishment isn't really a justice system at all.


And any pizza without anchovies isn't really a pizza at all.

What's your point?
 
2014-01-16 03:38:55 PM  

TheWhoppah: DarkSoulNoHope: The good thing to do is drag it out for all the people who may have been falsely convicted, because I know Texas has killed a couple of innocent people.

More Willingham bullshiat?  The evidence of his guilt is overwhelming, regardless of what the Net Yorker magazine does to sell subscriptions.  I'll give you that Carl DeLuna in 1989 might have been innocent.  But most of those innocence claims from Texas are pure bullshiat.  Texas did have a bunch of RAPE exhortations because Dallas saved all the rape kits going back into the 1970s and then went back and DNA tested all of them.  Every other city in the nation disposed of their old rape kits so there was nothing left to test... so Texas gets a black-eye over it.  I guess no good deed goes unpunished.


How do you define overwhelming? IIRC the only actual evidence was the later disputed arson report? Unless you're including the Led Zeppelin posters and snake tattoos as evidence. Or his cowardice.
 
2014-01-16 03:39:18 PM  

Mirandized: Joe Blowme: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

THIS times eleventy billion

I don't understand this at all. You are not responsible for what this piece of shiat did. You are responsible for what the State does in your name. He acted as a monster so the State in our name should also act as a monster? That lowers us to his level. I want my government to be better than this piece of shiat.


Like abortion? Better like that? At least this guy was guilty (DNA), unlike the unborn
 
2014-01-16 03:39:20 PM  

EyeballKid: Kit Fister: EyeballKid: Between this and the thread about Mrs. Tannenhill's gun, there are a lot of all-hat-no-cattle-cowboys on Fark.

500 head of dairy cows on a farm in Wisconsin. You were saying?

I was saying your grasp of the language's colloquialisms could be stronger. Wait, I'm sorry, is English your second language?


No, I simply chose to take your colloquialism at face value rather than responding to its intended message. However, in response to its intended message, I have seen the business end of this kind of thing. It ain't pretty. But at the same time, having dealt with the sort of people who do the acts this man did, I have nothing but contempt for them and would gladly pay to pull the trigger.
 
2014-01-16 03:39:36 PM  

dittybopper: Bf+: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine? We know it works, and we know it's painless

I think you just answered your own question.
The purpose of the death penalty isn't to remove a person from society or some such bullshiat.  It is to extract tortuous vengeance upon the person and their loved ones.  Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

So we can go with my other idea, then.


Wouldn't a blast with a shotgun to the side of the head be cheaper and easier?
 
2014-01-16 03:39:46 PM  

manwithplanx: Great job Ohio, now you're probably going to have to pay the man's family millions of dollars, while the victim's family only has their memories. Great 'experiment'

/you know who else did biochem experiments on convicts?


Nazis, Imperial Japanese Army, Soviets...and I think the US did a few VD experiments on blacks by withholding medicines...
 
2014-01-16 03:39:58 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: So you wanted him to die in a more humane way than his victim.. F that.

He does not deserve the right to die a comfortable, painless death.


The 8th Amendment to the United States Constitution says you are 100% wrong.  When the state is executing a horrible criminal for his crimes, it is SUPPOSED to be akin to putting down a rabid dog.  Permanently removing someone from society for a crime so horrible that he should pay for it with his life.  Cold and emotionless.  It is not supposed to be farking torture.  You want to torture a man to death for being a living piece of garbage?  Move to the Congo.  I'm sure there are loads of acceptable targets for you to whit your bloodlust on there.

And before you ask why I care so much about this...thing instead of its victim, I don't.  He can burn in Hell for all I care.  But if we allow the state to start torturing people who it deems fit to death, well, that's it then.  We will have become no better than the worst totalitarian dictatorships of history.  It's easy to say that a "man" who raped and murdered a pregnant woman has such a fate coming, but who's to say that the acceptable range of criminals to inflict such a punishment on doesn't grow?

/of course, some people actually think that capital punishment shouldn't be something our government is in the process of doling out
//One can have all the compassion in the world for the victim while still upholding the mores of civilization.  Despite what you might have been told, you do not have to let yourself become a monster to fight monsters.
 
2014-01-16 03:40:16 PM  
You guys realize that being for or against the death penalty is just an opinion, right?  And that there's no factual basis to rule out either option, or consider one morally superior to the other?

It boils down to preference once you remove the doubt about guilt.
 
2014-01-16 03:40:34 PM  

WTFDYW: r1niceboy: WTFDYW: I'm ok with this jpg.

But are you absolutely confident that every single person in the US on death row is there legitimately? Would you be okay with doing this to someone because the cops wanted to get back to their donuts, and the DA was making a run for congress?

When the DNA says you did it, you DID it. Thanks for playing. Please come back later.


Every single person on death row has been convicted using DNA tests? Proof s'il vous plait.
 
2014-01-16 03:40:59 PM  

Mirandized: Joe Blowme: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

THIS times eleventy billion

I don't understand this at all. You are not responsible for what this piece of shiat did. You are responsible for what the State does in your name. He acted as a monster so the State in our name should also act as a monster? That lowers us to his level. I want my government to be better than this piece of shiat.


The guy had problems breathing for a few minutes while he was passed out.

I fail to see how that equates with raping and stabbing a pregnant woman to death.

Here's how much I care about this guy:

Not at all.  Not one fark is given about this guy's feelings or well-being.
 
2014-01-16 03:41:01 PM  
There are certain cases to bring up how inhumane and foolish the death penalty. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt Stabby McRapy here is not one of them. I'm *glad* he suffered, though I would have prefered if they left him in jail instead of executing him. That way he would suffer even longer. Non-existence is probably a step up for him, they did him a favor he didn't deserve.
 
2014-01-16 03:41:23 PM  
FREE HAT!
 
2014-01-16 03:41:36 PM  

Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.


~~DNA evidence confirmed McGuire's guilt

Read harder next time.
 
2014-01-16 03:41:39 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: nmrsnr: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

You'd have to automate it. One of the reason they stopped was that the men on the firing squads were (for want of a better word) squeamish, so you got stories of three rounds of volleys from 15 feet that all missed the guys head, so he instead bleeds out very, very painfully.

Easy solution. Open it up to let local NRA gun nut volunteers do it. And give them a little room afterwards so they can go stroke off one.


I think the state could offer lottery tickets where the winner gets to take the shot. Help recoup some of the cost...
 
2014-01-16 03:42:10 PM  

TheWhoppah: Why should execution be painless?  That seems like a stupid prerequisite.


For sure - I've been an advocate of dishing out an equivalency in means by which our states dispose of murderers. This clown should have gotten what he had given to his victim.

/no hat
//ate the cattle
 
2014-01-16 03:42:13 PM  

Dr. Kefarkian: I have a few ideas ...


Well, your Fark handle does raise a question or two.  What recipe did Kevorkian use for assisting the terminally I'll to die?  How much pain was actually involved with this concoction, if any at all?  Of I remember, it puts one to sleep, then kills them.  What is so bad about that?
 
2014-01-16 03:42:21 PM  

Dimensio: I disagree. Executions should in fact be open to the public, and even publicly broadcast.

That may cause a reassessment of popular support for capital punishment.



Because nobody wants to watch you throw the Christians to the lions:
2.bp.blogspot.com

Haha!  Just kidding.  The stadium is full.
Programs!  Get your programs here!  'Can't tell the Christians from the Lions without your programs!  Only $5 for the commemorative program!  Programs!
 
2014-01-16 03:42:24 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


They essentially did overdose him on morphine. The two drugs used in this execution were Versed and Dilaudid. Dilaudid is an opioid and very similar to morphine only it is stronger.
 
2014-01-16 03:42:34 PM  

Mirandized: And while we are at it, this FTFA.


   "We have forgiven him, but that does not negate the need for him to pay for his actions," said a statement released by Carol Avery, Stewart's sister, after McGuire's death.

I would not presume to tell her that she should forgive him, but if this is her attitude, she hasn't forgiven him. That makes her statement just a meaningless sound bite.


That's the Xtian in them wanting to appear enlightened and keep blood off their hands, but the human animal in them still seethes and can't stand the perceived injustice of this guy getting to live.
 
2014-01-16 03:43:00 PM  

Target Builder: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless

Or put them in an airtight room and flood it with Carbon Monoxide. They'll painlessly pass out in seconds without even knowing the execution has started, and we know it's painless from testimony of people who have survived Carbon Monoxide poisoning, and die very shortly after.

Wait 30 mins or so, vent the room and send the body over to the morgue.


You know who else used Carbon Monoxide to execute people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp#Pure_extermination_c am ps
 
2014-01-16 03:43:04 PM  

Captain Steroid: I miss the guillotine.


How about one for your next knosh?

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-01-16 03:43:07 PM  

NEDM: And before you ask why I care so much about this...thing instead of its victim, I don't. He can burn in Hell for all I care. But if we allow the state to start torturing people who it deems fit to death, well, that's it then.


I agree.  The state didn't intend to torture him.  The state should learn from this, figure out what could be improved upon and apply to the future.

The vast majority of pro death penalty people here are not saying torture should be the goal.  They are saying the least torturous way possible should be the goal but if shiat happens along the way, well it's happening to people like this raping murderer so "meh."  Don't mistake indifference for support.
 
2014-01-16 03:43:34 PM  

neversubmit: Intrepid00: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.

You must have never taken morphine. That shiat burns. It ie far from painless. It just a lot better than the pain you have.

It's a good burn.


Like being sucked off by an angel...
 
2014-01-16 03:43:57 PM  

lordjupiter: That's the Xtian in them wanting to appear enlightened and keep blood off their hands, but the human animal in them still seethes and can't stand the perceived injustice of this guy getting to live.


I'm sure if she could go back to that biblical time that she imagines the crucifixion to have been, she'd be screaming for Barabbas.
 
2014-01-16 03:44:04 PM  
ShadowKamui:

The Mongols would tie you down and break your back
Some greek city states tossed you into a giant smoker shaped like a bull


I'm aware of those two, just never an elephant squashing your head like a bug.  yikes
 
2014-01-16 03:44:11 PM  
We should use hyperbaric chambers. Drop them to 300 feet and then throw open the valves. Running a compressor is cheap.
 
2014-01-16 03:44:52 PM  

Kit Fister: ElwoodCuse: Certainty of guilt does not automatically make the death penalty "right"

I think you're going to find that the people who support the death penalty fairly unwavering in their agreement with it.

Like me. There is nothing wrong with killing an attacker, a rapist, or a murderer where proof of guilt is established beyond the shadow of a doubt, and all due care has been exhausted to ensure that nothing is left unchecked.

Likewise, if I see someone raping a woman, or molesting a kid, or doing some other thing of that nature, I will sure as hell have no second thoughts about killing him to stop it.


I'm 100% with you.  I have no moral problem with killing someone to stop a crime in action.

However, I have a huge problem allowing the state to kill.  It's not about compassion or "sinking to their level", it's a simple matter of mistrust.
 
2014-01-16 03:45:32 PM  

Somaticasual: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use

The problem with firing squads is two-fold, though I agree it seems 1000x more merciful than this botched excecution.
1) it leaves most of the firing squad members wondering if they're a murderer for the rest of their life. With poison, at least the 'executioner' gets to tell themselves 'well, i just pressed a button, the timer on the machine did the execution..'
2) basically, it's gruesome for the families of both the victim and the perpetrator. OTOH, compared to this, it's not that gruesome.


I would volunteer to be on the firing squad. I seriously doubt it would bother me much.

Exacting justice is not murder.
 
2014-01-16 03:45:52 PM  
Side note: does anyone give a rat's ass? OK, anyone important?
 
2014-01-16 03:46:27 PM  

lordjupiter: You guys realize that being for or against the death penalty is just an opinion, right?  And that there's no factual basis to rule out either option, or consider one morally superior to the other?

It boils down to preference once you remove the doubt about guilt.


In that case there seems to be a perfectly reasonable moral reason to end the death penalty.  All actions of the state are done in the name of 'the people' if even one person is against the death penalty it is morally wrong to kill someone in their name.  The state allows conscientious objectors to abstain from combat roles does it not?
 
2014-01-16 03:46:47 PM  

dark brew: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.

They essentially did overdose him on morphine. The two drugs used in this execution were Versed and Dilaudid. Dilaudid is an opioid and very similar to morphine only it is stronger.


Then I fail to see the problem.  His body may have had a reaction, but I doubt he would have felt it.
 
2014-01-16 03:46:58 PM  

WTFDYW: super_grass: Just use a firing squad if you want someone dead.

- no complex medical procedure
- hard to screw up
- bullets are pretty damn cheap
- quick death for the convict
- organs that aren't shot can be put to good use

Yeah but there's a pretty long waiting list for hearts.


BOOM HEADSHOT
 
2014-01-16 03:47:01 PM  
Good to know we're still on par with those other civilized countries. Murica!

farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2014-01-16 03:47:52 PM  

ShadowKamui: Just gas them w/ nitrous or CO2


Carbon monoxide works better, faster and leaves their skin a cheery pink colour for the cameras.  There is a  slight chance of convulsions, but those will happen after brain death which usually occurs within twenty to thirty seconds.  The best thing about carbon monoxide is that fools the body into thinking it's getting enough oxygen thus there is no gasping or hyperventilating etc.  Helium is another usable option, but the convict should be mildly sedated first.  These methods mind you are far too humane for the typical death row inmate, but they are no muss and no fuss, which is what the politicians would want in order to maintain their rep as tough but fair.

source: google carbon monoxide poisoning  or for helium look up, "The final exit"
 
2014-01-16 03:48:14 PM  
i.chzbgr.com
 
2014-01-16 03:48:33 PM  
i vote for death by ones own actions.
 
2014-01-16 03:48:51 PM  

KidneyStone: I would volunteer to be on the firing squad. I seriously doubt it would bother me much.


Wow, dude, you are like, so totally tough and bad-ass! I bet nobody's every messed with a bad-ass such as yourself, right? 'Cos you're so awesome and bad-ass and tough?
 
2014-01-16 03:48:54 PM  
We need to stop executing people.  Such a waste of human resources.

I mean, really, who knows when we'll be at the point of teleportation testing where we can attempt it with humans?  I say we keep them around, freeze them if necessary, and use them as volunteers (trust me, they'll volunteer) for test subjects.

Who knows what other uses they could have, too.  Soylent green's not just a fanciful though anymore.
 
2014-01-16 03:49:37 PM  
Experimental murder committed by the state.
Beautiful complement to the religion of peace and revenge, Christianity.
 
2014-01-16 03:50:01 PM  
What about going old school and using hanging? If it's done right, he's dead instantly. As it is, I can't feel too sorry for this particular guy (I don't place much stock in unsupported confessions, but if the DNA was legit and his story matched, well ...) but don't care for the precedent it sets.
 
2014-01-16 03:50:28 PM  
Gasping and snorting aside, if he was dosed with midazolam, he wasn't awake when it was happening. Neither would he have had any recollection of the event if he had somehow survived. Add some hydromorphone on top of the midazolam, and I guarantee his death was more painful for his family than it was for him.
 
2014-01-16 03:50:29 PM  
I wonder how much the murder rate would go down if the form of corporal punishment was "torn to shreds by pack of hungry viscous dogs"...smaller ones so it takes longer. Show them live on TV as well, that way the citizens know your serious.

I know it wouldn't stop people killing each other, but what it might do is that the criminal would be more likely kill themselves preferring a bullet to the head then being torn to shreds by dogs and just think how much money that would save the tax-payers with not having to pay for those lengthy trials and prison stays.
 
2014-01-16 03:50:40 PM  

Egoy3k: lordjupiter: You guys realize that being for or against the death penalty is just an opinion, right?  And that there's no factual basis to rule out either option, or consider one morally superior to the other?

It boils down to preference once you remove the doubt about guilt.

In that case there seems to be a perfectly reasonable moral reason to end the death penalty.  All actions of the state are done in the name of 'the people' if even one person is against the death penalty it is morally wrong to kill someone in their name.  The state allows conscientious objectors to abstain from combat roles does it not?


You aren't being made to physically throw the switch. Apples and orangutans.
 
2014-01-16 03:51:09 PM  
I find it fascinating that the people who think the government has too much power and is incompetent are by and large huge supporters of the death penalty.

One day the U.S. will get over this bloodthirsty urge and join the rest of the civilized world.  Hopefully this thread will be archived somewhere so the grandchildren of certain posters in this thread can see what kind of savages they were when they were young and stupid.
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 03:51:29 PM  

Cold_Sassy: I hope he did suffer


Trolling or not...
Unlike many pro-death penalty people, at least you are proudly pro-torture.
Do you also feel joy at the pain of his son and daughter having to watch their murderous father tortured before their eyes.
 
2014-01-16 03:51:43 PM  

Zizzowop: Good to know we're still on par with those other civilized countries. Murica!

[farm3.staticflickr.com image 800x520]


I'm curious to know what the rates are for people "disappearing" in those countries greed out.  ...except for Australia.  It's impossible to know what is going or kill you in Australia.  There's too many things there trying to kill you there.
 
2014-01-16 03:51:51 PM  
Submittard and HuffPo are exaggerating liars, trolling for clicks.

Headline:
...gasped and snorted for 15 minutes...

Article:
...inmate appeared to gasp several times and took 15 minutes to die...
McGuire was still for almost five minutes, then emitted a loud snot, as if snoring, and continued to make that sound over the next several minutes....A coughing sound was Dennis McGuire's last apparent movement, at 10:43 am.  He was pronounced dead 10 minutes later.


So, basically, he was quiet for 5 minutes, he snored for 5 minutes, was quiet again for 5 minutes, then coughed once and died.  But instead of that, let's write a headline that makes it sound like he was choking and writhing against his restraints for 15 minutes...
 
2014-01-16 03:51:59 PM  
We'll never know if he suffered. Having a hard time working up some tears for this one, though.

If he wanted any consideration, he shouldn't have raped and killed a pregnant woman and subsequently admitted to it. Fark him.
 
2014-01-16 03:52:31 PM  

lennavan: ElwoodCuse: lennavan: Lando Lincoln: WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.

This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.

But in this case it was right to do.  You probably want to wait til the next thread to make your case.

Certainty of guilt does not automatically make the death penalty "right"

It does when you're guilty of raping and murdering a pregnant girl and the family of the victim supports it.


Deserve's got nothin' to do with it.
 
2014-01-16 03:53:00 PM  
NEDM


Random Anonymous Blackmail: So you wanted him to die in a more humane way than his victim.. F that.

He does not deserve the right to die a comfortable, painless death.

The 8th Amendment to the United States Constitution says you are 100% wrong...


We seem to change all the other parts of the Constitution, why not this one?
 
2014-01-16 03:53:06 PM  

ChipNASA: [i.chzbgr.com image 340x450]


Necklacing?

Something similar seems to have happened in the killing of Matthew Goniwe and his fellow anti-apartheid activists by the police in July 1985.

Here. You can read about it here

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/6006

/at least I cited sources
 
2014-01-16 03:53:07 PM  

Cold_Sassy: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

~~DNA evidence confirmed McGuire's guilt

Read harder next time.


This just in: DNA evidence has never been overturned.
 
2014-01-16 03:53:26 PM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: Zizzowop: Good to know we're still on par with those other civilized countries. Murica!

[farm3.staticflickr.com image 800x520]

I'm curious to know what the rates are for people "disappearing" in those countries greed out.  ...except for Australia.  It's impossible to know what is going or kill you in Australia.  There's too many things there trying to kill you there.


Greyed out, not greed out.

FTFM
 
2014-01-16 03:54:02 PM  

Bf+: Cold_Sassy: I hope he did suffer

Trolling or not...
Unlike many pro-death penalty people, at least you are proudly pro-torture.
Do you also feel joy at the pain of his son and daughter having to watch their murderous father tortured before their eyes.


I didn't feel joy, but it didn't offend me.     He was the monster that put all this into motion.   His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.
 
2014-01-16 03:54:18 PM  

Jesus built my hybrid: Do they put they put these guys to sleep at all first?  What keeps one of them from thrashing about and  screaming at the top of their lungs "Please shoot me!!!! The pain is too much!!!!

That's what I would do.


Usually the first drug is to knock them out so yes.
 
2014-01-16 03:54:50 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


It's probably been said already, but they pretty much did.  Hydromorphone is a much more powerful derivative of morphine - 10x as powerful IIRC.  The midazolam is an anxiolytic like valium/diazepam.  This guy was on a nice little trip without having to leave Ohio when he was put to death, not agonizing in pain...
 
2014-01-16 03:55:27 PM  

dittybopper: my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light. They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


img01.imagecanon.com

But what if Simmons yanks it out?

/She could yank mine out anyday....
 
2014-01-16 03:55:36 PM  

Bf+: Cold_Sassy: I hope he did suffer

Trolling or not...
Unlike many pro-death penalty people, at least you are proudly pro-torture.
Do you also feel joy at the pain of his son and daughter having to watch their murderous father tortured before their eyes.


Nobody said they HAD to do anything.  That was their own choice.
 
2014-01-16 03:55:36 PM  

The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....


Compassion Hunger trumps air hunger.
 
2014-01-16 03:55:53 PM  

you are a puppet: TheWhoppah: DarkSoulNoHope: The good thing to do is drag it out for all the people who may have been falsely convicted, because I know Texas has killed a couple of innocent people.

More Willingham bullshiat?  The evidence of his guilt is overwhelming, regardless of what the Net Yorker magazine does to sell subscriptions.  I'll give you that Carl DeLuna in 1989 might have been innocent.  But most of those innocence claims from Texas are pure bullshiat.  Texas did have a bunch of RAPE exhortations because Dallas saved all the rape kits going back into the 1970s and then went back and DNA tested all of them.  Every other city in the nation disposed of their old rape kits so there was nothing left to test... so Texas gets a black-eye over it.  I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

How do you define overwhelming? IIRC the only actual evidence was the later disputed arson report? Unless you're including the Led Zeppelin posters and snake tattoos as evidence. Or his cowardice.


Willingham's own explanation for what happened:  I was napping in the back room with Amber when she woke me up yelling about the smoke so I got up and left out the front door.

Three year old Amber's body was found under the covers in the back bedroom.  The path from the back bedroom to the front door would have taken him past the room where the twin infants were sleeping.  Their bodies were found in that room.

So, even if you ignore the half-dozen empty bottles of lighter fluid and the neighbors that reported seeing him outside acting funny peeking in the windows and doors BEFORE any smoke came out of the house... even if you ignore the testimony of the fire investigators that spent 3 days going through the rubble.  Even if you take Willingham's explanation as 100% gospel truth... then he just walked out and left his three kids to die in a fire without even trying to save them... one of whom was in the same room with him and alerted him to the smoke.  The jury obviously didn't believe him and neither should you... but even if you do and you are right .... well I still think he was a monster who deserved a lot worse than lethal injection.  Oh, and those fire reports were not debunked exactly.  They found almost two dozen "clues of arson" that, at the time, it was believed that those clues ONLY appeared in arson fires.  We now know that some of them can sometimes appear in non-arson fires too.  Still, there was plenty of forensic evidence to support the arson conviction even if some of those clues were only 90% likely causes instead of 100%.  What are the chances of over dozen 10% chances all going that way?  The prosecution theory was that he killed his three kids to spite his wife.  His last words were to her, "fark You, biatch!"
 
2014-01-16 03:55:59 PM  

dittybopper: Target Builder: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless

Or put them in an airtight room and flood it with Carbon Monoxide. They'll painlessly pass out in seconds without even knowing the execution has started, and we know it's painless from testimony of people who have survived Carbon Monoxide poisoning, and die very shortly after.

Wait 30 mins or so, vent the room and send the body over to the morgue.

You know who else used Carbon Monoxide to execute people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp#Pure_extermination_c am ps


You do realize they were also the #1 users of the guillotine
 
2014-01-16 03:56:12 PM  
img.fark.net

Hanging is an excellent way to perform executions, but the British got it right with the long drop.  Snaps the neck, so it's instant unconsciousness.  The American method relies on strangulation and is too slow.
 
2014-01-16 03:56:12 PM  
A simple bullet to the head. Followed by a second just in case. Wtf kinda crap is using poisons? Seems pretty unusual to me.
 
2014-01-16 03:56:16 PM  
My god the report on that guy...

He then explained that because she was so pregnant, it was difficult to engage in sex with her, so instead he anally sodomized her. Joy then became "hysterical," which made McGuire nervous. He ended up killing Joy for fear that he would go to jail for raping a pregnant woman.
 
2014-01-16 03:56:36 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


I say morphine, then guillotine, and then dynamite.

upload.wikimedia.org

If he gets up and walk away after that, then he's Casca Longinus and you'll never kill him anyway.
 
2014-01-16 03:56:50 PM  
I just love that the people who are all "get government outta our lives" are all "get government into our deaths". This experiment was cruel and barbaric regardless of what this man's crimes were. The death penalty is not the act of a civilized society.
 
2014-01-16 03:57:10 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Cold_Sassy: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

~~DNA evidence confirmed McGuire's guilt

Read harder next time.

This just in: DNA evidence has never been overturned.


But if the DNA evidence is used to exonerate somebody, it's 100% correct?  Interesting...
 
2014-01-16 03:57:23 PM  
This is an OUTRAGE...

....reads part that says " put McGuire to death for the 1989 rape and fatal stabbing of a pregnant woman"

Changed my mind, let the coont suffer
 
2014-01-16 03:57:34 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


That's basically what they did.


HydroMorphone, not actual Morphine, but along the same line.
 
2014-01-16 03:57:56 PM  

Ghastly: The death penalty is not the act of a civilized society.


If this meeting of paper tigers and Internet Tough Guys is any indication, ours is sadly nowhere close to a civilized society.
 
2014-01-16 03:58:04 PM  
Screw Nancy Grace and screw experimental drugs. If they must:

Small garage, limousine, full tank of gas, top shelf bourbon. Job done.
 
2014-01-16 03:58:18 PM  

chevydeuce: But if the DNA evidence is used to exonerate somebody, it's 100% correct? Interesting...


It would certainly count as reasonable doubt.
 
2014-01-16 03:58:37 PM  

dameron: I find it fascinating that the people who think the government has too much power and is incompetent are by and large huge supporters of the death penalty.

One day the U.S. will get over this bloodthirsty urge and join the rest of the civilized world.  Hopefully this thread will be archived somewhere so the grandchildren of certain posters in this thread can see what kind of savages they were when they were young and stupid.


I find it fascinating that the people who are staunch anti-death penalty types are by and large huge supporters of abortion. I wonder what those future generations will think of that.
 
2014-01-16 03:58:48 PM  
Dude had an overdose of narcotics and sedatives - I wouldn't feel too sorry for him.  He was probably living out his bucket list in his final minutes, if only in his mind.
 
2014-01-16 03:59:10 PM  
farm5.static.flickr.com

/ [well_bye.jpg]
 
2014-01-16 03:59:13 PM  

Target Builder: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless

Or put them in an airtight room and flood it with Carbon Monoxide. They'll painlessly pass out in seconds without even knowing the execution has started, and we know it's painless from testimony of people who have survived Carbon Monoxide poisoning, and die very shortly after.

Wait 30 mins or so, vent the room and send the body over to the morgue.


I have More Than a Feeling you're right.
 
2014-01-16 03:59:13 PM  
Here's an idea, don't get sent to Death Row.  Problem solved.
 
2014-01-16 03:59:46 PM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: I remember in the '70s, an anti-death penalty Senator from Alabama tried to pass legislation requiring all executions to be performed in the University of Alabama football stadium, with a lottery and mandatory attendance, much like jury duty. The executions were to be performed using four horses pulling in different directions, and ropes tied to to the executionee's extremities.

Probably not barbaric enough for today's sophisticated audiences.


Now that's old-skool executioning right there...
 
2014-01-16 04:00:02 PM  

Lando Lincoln: This just in: DNA evidence has never been overturned.


Your opposition to the death penalty is a guy convicted by evidence which is later supported by the addition of DNA evidence and a confession might possibly be innocent?

K.
 
2014-01-16 04:00:02 PM  

EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.


oyster.ignimgs.com
 
2014-01-16 04:00:16 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

He was too poor to afford good lawyers.  That's how he got the death penalty.


Well yeah, that and he raped and stabbed a 22 year old girl to death but hey, let's not split hairs, eh?
 
2014-01-16 04:00:21 PM  

durbnpoisn: jigger: He was convicted 25 years ago? The swift sword of justice, I guess.

And, see, here inlies the problem with capital punishment is in this country.  He's been sitting in jail for 25 years, with more than enough time to regret and repent what he had done.  This to such an extent, that you almost feel sorry for his manner of execution.
I can assure you, if he were executed immediately following the conviction of rape and murder of a pregnant woman, proponents of the death penalty (like myself), would have liked to have seen even MORE pain and suffering.  As it stands, it's just too far after the fact.


How the hell do you regret and repent for rape and murder?

I can understand knocking over some banks and feeling bad about it later. Selling some drugs, destroying property - hell, I might even be able to forgive someone for beating up another guy, realizing the error of his ways, and then going back and making amends whatever way he can.

Some things, though, shouldn't be "erasable", so to speak. Violating a woman, man or child because no one else will sleep with you? No second chances. Taking someone else's life for any other reason outside of defending your own? No, you don't get a chance to say that you found Jesus and everything's peachy now. In fact, I'd hope that when you do get to the Pearly Gates, some big bouncers forcibly remove you from line and make you watch as all the gay people and other "godless heathens" cheerfully walk ahead of you before they drop kick your worthless ass into whatever hell you truly belong.

"25 Years enough time to regret and repent..." Please.
 
2014-01-16 04:00:28 PM  
When convicted, use the same method to execute the criminal that the criminal used on their victim.

If their victim suffered horribly, so should the convicted criminal.
 
2014-01-16 04:01:06 PM  

Yellow Beard: I find it fascinating that the people who are staunch anti-death penalty types are by and large huge supporters of abortion. I wonder what those future generations will think of that.


Like  the billion+ Catholics out there?   Go be dumb somewhere else.
 
2014-01-16 04:01:25 PM  

Yellow Beard: dameron: I find it fascinating that the people who think the government has too much power and is incompetent are by and large huge supporters of the death penalty.

One day the U.S. will get over this bloodthirsty urge and join the rest of the civilized world.  Hopefully this thread will be archived somewhere so the grandchildren of certain posters in this thread can see what kind of savages they were when they were young and stupid.

I find it fascinating that the people who are staunch anti-death penalty types are by and large huge supporters of abortion. I wonder what those future generations will think of that.


They will probably think that enlightened people thought women were more than factories or property to be controlled by the state. And that women should decide when and if they are to give birth and not some body of legislators or a handful of old men who have never been pregnant.
 
GBB
2014-01-16 04:01:58 PM  

Bf+: Cold_Sassy: I hope he did suffer

Trolling or not...
Unlike many pro-death penalty people, at least you are proudly pro-torture.
Do you also feel joy at the pain of his son and daughter having to watch their murderous father tortured before their eyes.


They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.  If they are willing to accept him as a monster, then they should be prepared to deal with those demons.
 
2014-01-16 04:02:03 PM  

dittybopper: So we can go with my other idea, then.


You have to admit that it might be considered "unusual".
 
2014-01-16 04:02:32 PM  

dameron: Yellow Beard: I find it fascinating that the people who are staunch anti-death penalty types are by and large huge supporters of abortion. I wonder what those future generations will think of that.

Like  the billion+ Catholics out there?   Go be dumb somewhere else.


I know the pope is rather progressive on a few issues, but I didn't know he was now a huge support of abortion.
 
2014-01-16 04:02:42 PM  

theflatline: My god the report on that guy...

He then explained that because she was so pregnant, it was difficult to engage in sex with her, so instead he anally sodomized her. Joy then became "hysterical," which made McGuire nervous. He ended up killing Joy for fear that he would go to jail for raping a pregnant woman.


His fear was undeniably justified.
 
2014-01-16 04:02:45 PM  
A forced benzo/opiate overdose is probably less painful than the potassium containing cocktail usually employed. We should all be so lucky.
 
2014-01-16 04:02:50 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


I entered this thread not really wanting to be here. But then I read this, and wow. I hope you're serious, because I've had this same idea and people have called it barbaric, cruel, etc.
But it makes total sense to me. It's how I'd do myself if I got to pick a way.
I don't have the energy for any more of this thread.
 
2014-01-16 04:03:05 PM  

Cold_Sassy: Marcus Aurelius: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

He was too poor to afford good lawyers.  That's how he got the death penalty.

Well yeah, that and he raped and stabbed a 22 year old girl to death but hey, let's not split hairs, eh?


So you're OK with a wealthy person getting 15 to 25 for the same crime, solely on the basis that they are wealthy?
 
2014-01-16 04:03:36 PM  

Egoy3k: lordjupiter: You guys realize that being for or against the death penalty is just an opinion, right?  And that there's no factual basis to rule out either option, or consider one morally superior to the other?

It boils down to preference once you remove the doubt about guilt.

In that case there seems to be a perfectly reasonable moral reason to end the death penalty.  All actions of the state are done in the name of 'the people' if even one person is against the death penalty it is morally wrong to kill someone in their name.  The state allows conscientious objectors to abstain from combat roles does it not?


Quite a reach.
 
GBB
2014-01-16 04:03:48 PM  

EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.


Then you are truly baffled by murderers.
 
2014-01-16 04:04:12 PM  
I'm astonishedoso many people in this thread are whining about sympathy for this guy. Most are saying kill him humanly but by all means kill him. I don't really see that as sympathy. For the record I vote guillotine.
 
2014-01-16 04:04:16 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: WTFDYW: r1niceboy: WTFDYW: I'm ok with this jpg.

But are you absolutely confident that every single person in the US on death row is there legitimately? Would you be okay with doing this to someone because the cops wanted to get back to their donuts, and the DA was making a run for congress?

When the DNA says you did it, you DID it. Thanks for playing. Please come back later.

You didn't answer the question.

So here's another one: is it OK to only execute poor people?


Do you know of any rich people who have raped and murdered eight month pregnant women? Rich people are rich because they have more to do than kill and maim people.
 
2014-01-16 04:06:45 PM  
This thread is what happens when you don't explain to your children before reading them Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" or letting them watch "The Running Man" what a cautionary tale is.
 
2014-01-16 04:06:54 PM  
TEAM DOUBLE TAP!!!
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 04:07:05 PM  

WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.


durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.


GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.


You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.
 
2014-01-16 04:07:07 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: So we can go with my other idea, then.

You have to admit that it might be considered "unusual".


The Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the use of "cruel and unusual" punishment. Punishments therefore may be cruel or unusual, so long as they are not both simultaneously.
 
2014-01-16 04:07:47 PM  

WTFDYW: Do you know of any rich people who have raped and murdered eight month pregnant women? Rich people are rich because they have more to do than kill and maim people.


You must have missed the whole affluenza epidemic recently.
 
2014-01-16 04:07:52 PM  

Ghastly: I just love that the people who are all "get government outta our lives" are all "get government into our deaths". This experiment was cruel and barbaric regardless of what this man's crimes were. The death penalty is not the act of a civilized society.


I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_L%C3%B3pez_%28serial_killer%29
 
2014-01-16 04:09:01 PM  

theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?


Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:03 PM  

Kit Fister: I'm OK with his definition of a justice system. Remove those who commit the worst, most atrocious crimes from society and from the face of the earth. Permanent cold storage. We have enough humans on this planet that those who do especially evil things deserve to be removed from it.


Even ignoring the wrongness of that, the notion that a victim should automatically become an arbiter of right and wrong is insane.

Vengeance and justice are not the same thing.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:26 PM  

NEDM: Random Anonymous Blackmail: So you wanted him to die in a more humane way than his victim.. F that.

He does not deserve the right to die a comfortable, painless death.

The 8th Amendment to the United States Constitution says you are 100% wrong.  When the state is executing a horrible criminal for his crimes, it is SUPPOSED to be akin to putting down a rabid dog.  Permanently removing someone from society for a crime so horrible that he should pay for it with his life.  Cold and emotionless.  It is not supposed to be farking torture.  You want to torture a man to death for being a living piece of garbage?  Move to the Congo.  I'm sure there are loads of acceptable targets for you to whit your bloodlust on there.

And before you ask why I care so much about this...thing instead of its victim, I don't.  He can burn in Hell for all I care.  But if we allow the state to start torturing people who it deems fit to death, well, that's it then.  We will have become no better than the worst totalitarian dictatorships of history.  It's easy to say that a "man" who raped and murdered a pregnant woman has such a fate coming, but who's to say that the acceptable range of criminals to inflict such a punishment on doesn't grow?

/of course, some people actually think that capital punishment shouldn't be something our government is in the process of doling out
//One can have all the compassion in the world for the victim while still upholding the mores of civilization.  Despite what you might have been told, you do not have to let yourself become a monster to fight monsters.



Can you point to the part in the 8th amendment where it says that there can't be pain?  You are equating the prohibition on cruelty with a prohibition on pain. Surely excessive pain would be prohibited but saying that any method can't have any pain whatsoever is probably stretching the meaning beyond what the founders intended.  Especially given the methods of execution available back when the Constitution was written.  Then we had hanging as the primary method that could leave an individual dangling and suffocating if there was a mistake in the knot placement that snapped the neck.  Firing squad may have also been used which could provide pain if the marksmen were not completely accurate.  The Guilotine was in use in France and while supposedly painless was also highly graphic. So looking historically, pain while not an aim of the execution, could be an expected byproduct. It just should be minimized where possible.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:28 PM  

theflatline: [...]  He then explained that because she was so pregnant, it was difficult to engage in sex with her, so instead he anally sodomized her. Joy then became "hysterical," which made McGuire nervous. He ended up killing Joy for fear that he would go to jail for raping a pregnant woman.



dameron: [...] One day the U.S. will get over this bloodthirsty urge and join the rest of the civilized world. Hopefully this thread will be archived somewhere so the grandchildren of certain posters in this thread can see what kind of savages they were when they were young and stupid.


No nation is civilized if they DON'T execute a man for raping and killing a woman who is eight months pregnant.  If you can't execute scumbag subhumans like that then your society is not civilized.
You don't value the life of your own citizens.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:30 PM  
Giant re-enforced pit, drop them in.

Drop a fire grenade once a year to clean the place up and prevent stacking.


Easy, cheap, virtually no maintenance.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:46 PM  

TheWhoppah: Why should execution be painless?  That seems like a stupid prerequisite.


You mean, aside from the Eighth Amendment?
 
2014-01-16 04:09:48 PM  

lennavan: They are saying the least torturous way possible should be the goal but if shiat happens along the way, well it's happening to people like this raping murderer so "meh." Don't mistake indifference for support.


Which also runs counter to Amendment the Eighth. If the government "accidentally" deprives people of their First or Second Amendment rights (aside from the person generally remaining alive), they're guilty of violations and have to make it right.

McGuire's dead, and he was a murdering criminal fartypants, so no one cares.

// which is sad for several reasons
// justice is not about you getting your torture-rocks off, and it's not about "making sure the accused suffers"
// it's about The Law
// [stallone-dredd.gif]
 
2014-01-16 04:09:57 PM  

TheWhoppah: you are a puppet: TheWhoppah: DarkSoulNoHope: The good thing to do is drag it out for all the people who may have been falsely convicted, because I know Texas has killed a couple of innocent people.

More Willingham bullshiat?  The evidence of his guilt is overwhelming, regardless of what the Net Yorker magazine does to sell subscriptions.  I'll give you that Carl DeLuna in 1989 might have been innocent.  But most of those innocence claims from Texas are pure bullshiat.  Texas did have a bunch of RAPE exhortations because Dallas saved all the rape kits going back into the 1970s and then went back and DNA tested all of them.  Every other city in the nation disposed of their old rape kits so there was nothing left to test... so Texas gets a black-eye over it.  I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

How do you define overwhelming? IIRC the only actual evidence was the later disputed arson report? Unless you're including the Led Zeppelin posters and snake tattoos as evidence. Or his cowardice.

Willingham's own explanation for what happened:  I was napping in the back room with Amber when she woke me up yelling about the smoke so I got up and left out the front door.

Three year old Amber's body was found under the covers in the back bedroom.  The path from the back bedroom to the front door would have taken him past the room where the twin infants were sleeping.  Their bodies were found in that room.

So, even if you ignore the half-dozen empty bottles of lighter fluid and the neighbors that reported seeing him outside acting funny peeking in the windows and doors BEFORE any smoke came out of the house... even if you ignore the testimony of the fire investigators that spent 3 days going through the rubble.  Even if you take Willingham's explanation as 100% gospel truth... then he just walked out and left his three kids to die in a fire without even trying to save them... one of whom was in the same room with him and alerted him to the smoke.  The jury obviously didn't ...


I asked for evidence outside of his cowardice. I'm well aware that the reason people have no problem with his execution is because they have no respect for his non-criminal actions that night. I remember a guy who ran away from the Aurora Dark Knight shooting, got in his car and sped off while his fiance was still in the theater. He's a biatch but can we execute him based on that?

And as you stated, the arson clues were evidence "at the time" of his trial; at the time of his execution, not so much. So, the evidence is empty bottles of lighter fluid and him peeking in windows. Not so overwhelming.
 
2014-01-16 04:10:53 PM  

EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.


They even made a crappy movie about it with John Leguizamo, the fake Puerto Rican.
 
2014-01-16 04:10:59 PM  
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said, 'I drank what?'
 
2014-01-16 04:11:55 PM  
Body part banks?

A part is removed for each person they killed?
 
2014-01-16 04:12:17 PM  

special20: Maybe I was wrong... our capital punishment technology can borrow from the past and do pretty well. Plus it helps out a whole bunch of starving circus elephants who I care for more than I do a rapist/murderer.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 414x600]


Circus so slay?
 
2014-01-16 04:12:24 PM  

theflatline: EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.

They even made a crappy movie about it with John Leguizamo, the fake Puerto Rican.


Bennie Blanco from the Bronx?
 
2014-01-16 04:12:42 PM  

Skiffy: TheWhoppah: Why should execution be painless?  That seems like a stupid prerequisite.

You mean, aside from the Eighth Amendment?


At the time that was written, criminals were drawn and quartered.  It was painful and it was legal.  It might have been cruel but it wasn't unusual.
 
2014-01-16 04:13:05 PM  

TheWhoppah: No nation is civilized if they DON'T execute a man for raping and killing a woman who is eight months pregnant. If you can't execute scumbag subhumans like that then your society is not civilized.
You don't value the life of your own citizens.


What if he was sent through time because the unborn child was to be the next Hitler?
 
2014-01-16 04:13:26 PM  

gja: Somewhere, somehow, there has to be enough of a base, visceral fear instilled into people to stop them from committing atrocities like murder.


Perhaps for some people there needs to be that, but that's not why I don't kill people.  I don't kill people because I have a sense of right and wrong.  Okay, and because I don't think I could ever get away with it.  But the whole morality aspect of it does play a factor too.
 
2014-01-16 04:14:09 PM  
seansturm.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-16 04:14:42 PM  
I should have a problem with capitol punishment, I just don't.  Some people are just broken.  No amount of wanting to be fair or wishing really hard can fix them.  It seems less humane to keep a truly broken person in prison for the rest of their natural lives (extended by medication, no less).  A short, quick execution - bullet, cyanide - and the world is automatically a better place less the expense.
 
2014-01-16 04:14:45 PM  

EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.


You just promised to not argue against capital punishment with a single anecdote about an innocent person on death row.  You get that, right?
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 04:14:47 PM  
This thread:
fitnessintuition.com
 
GBB
2014-01-16 04:14:48 PM  

Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.


You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.  Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.
 
2014-01-16 04:14:58 PM  

imfallen_angel: TheWhoppah: No nation is civilized if they DON'T execute a man for raping and killing a woman who is eight months pregnant. If you can't execute scumbag subhumans like that then your society is not civilized.
You don't value the life of your own citizens.

What if he was sent through time because the unborn child was to be the next Hitler?


Then he did his job and needed to be removed from our timeline before he accidentally changed anything else... so it still worked out for the best.
 
2014-01-16 04:15:03 PM  

you are a puppet: theflatline: EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.

They even made a crappy movie about it with John Leguizamo, the fake Puerto Rican.

Bennie Blanco from the Bronx?


Yep, he claimed his mother was Colombian and his father was puerto rican, but his father was interviewed and both parents were from Bogota.  I saw the interview and his old man is straight up Colombian.
 
2014-01-16 04:15:28 PM  

EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.


It could be 300+ anecdotes.  It's just on how you see it.
 
2014-01-16 04:16:20 PM  

lennavan: EyeballKid: theflatline: I give you Pedro Lopez,  who raped and killed over 300 young girls in Latin America in countries who do not have death penalties.

He only did 18 years in prison, and then was declared sane and released.  Is that the act of civilized society?

Anecdotal evidence?!
ONE anecdote?!
SHUT.
DOWN.
EVERYTHING.

You just promised to not argue against capital punishment with a single anecdote about an innocent person on death row.  You get that, right?


Here are the quotes from the killer.

There is a wonderful moment, a divine moment, when I have my hands around a young girl's throat. I look into her eyes and see a certain light, a spark, suddenly go out.

Her fingers flutter briefly a The moment of death is enthralling and exciting. Only those who actually kill know what I mean. Someday, when I am released, I will feel that moment again. I will be happy to kill again. It is my mission."

 Lopez lulled them with cuddles before raping them at sunrise. He explained: " When the sun rose I would strangle her. It was only good if I could see her eyes. I never killed anyone at night. It would have been wasted in the dark. I had to watch them by daylight."
 
2014-01-16 04:16:31 PM  
-Abolish the Death Penalty
-Bring back Labor Camps
-Heavily scrutinize Labor Camps to ensure no illegal profiteering is occurring
-Folks unable to perform manual labor will perform something non-physical
-Trades and Skills taught to all inmates
-Inmates must pay for their stay by working
-Those with more valuable skills or that show strong signs of work ethic, receive proportionate benefits.
 
2014-01-16 04:16:50 PM  
I don't mean to harsh anyone's mellow in here, but to be perfectly fair, his symptoms were exactly what happens when a person is given a massive overdose of narcotics, namely snoring and agonal respiration. And something tells me that he wasn't aware of anything around him, let alone the fact he was choking to death.

The only difference between this and previous executions is that they don't use the paralytic to mask the symptoms, and the potassium bolus to cause cardiac arrest.

Sounds like the State got exactly what they wanted.

However, it's hard for me to feel sorry for a man who raped and murdered a pregnant woman with a knife. He still died far easier than she did.
 
2014-01-16 04:17:09 PM  

StRalphTheLiar: Oldiron_79: Piece of rope works well and cheaper too.

And 100% recyclable for the next guy.


I'd go with 80%. There is a chance of breakage.
 
2014-01-16 04:18:16 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: -Abolish the Death Penalty
-Bring back Labor Camps
-Heavily scrutinize Labor Camps to ensure no illegal profiteering is occurring
-Folks unable to perform manual labor will perform something non-physical
-Trades and Skills taught to all inmates
-Inmates must pay for their stay by working
-Those with more valuable skills or that show strong signs of work ethic, receive proportionate benefits.


Change 'inmates' to 'citizens' and let's have some fun!
 
2014-01-16 04:18:32 PM  

Somacandra: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.

I say morphine, then guillotine, and then dynamite.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 181x300]

If he gets up and walk away after that, then he's Casca Longinus and you'll never kill him anyway.


I had the entire series minus a few books back in the 1990s.

AWESOME Series.
 
2014-01-16 04:19:05 PM  

Dr Dreidel: lennavan: They are saying the least torturous way possible should be the goal but if shiat happens along the way, well it's happening to people like this raping murderer so "meh." Don't mistake indifference for support.

Which also runs counter to Amendment the Eighth. If the government "accidentally" deprives people of their First or Second Amendment rights (aside from the person generally remaining alive), they're guilty of violations and have to make it right.


I fully support the family's right to sue the state of Ohio on 8th amendment grounds.  That said, while I'm not an MD, it seems pretty likely it wasn't that cruel considering he was given a strong dose of an anesthetic.  It's kind of like the cases of brain dead people still on ventilators like Terry Schiavo or that Jahi McMath girl.  Sure their body might be physically doing things but that doesn't mean they're alive or feel any pain or anything like that.
 
2014-01-16 04:19:09 PM  

lennavan: You just promised to not argue against capital punishment with a single anecdote about an innocent person on death row.  You get that, right?


I guess I'll just to fall back on my having been able to lose my tail, develop thumbs at the end of my hands, and think a little better than my less-evolved ancestors to argue against capital punishment.

But, you think if the bad man hurt, you no hurt more, right?
 
2014-01-16 04:19:22 PM  

lennavan: Lando Lincoln: WhyKnot: Lando Lincoln: The Muthaship: So, does he usually snore?

I wonder of the pregnant lady he raped and stabbed to death suffered more or less than he did.....

Nobody was ever wrongfully convicted. Nope.

DNA and he admitted to it.   Try again.

This isn't about him, or his case. It's about a system.

But in this case it was right to do.  You probably want to wait til the next thread to make your case.


No. If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy with  all death peanlty convictions, then there should be no death penalty.
 
2014-01-16 04:19:34 PM  

EyeballKid: This thread is what happens when you don't explain to your children before reading them Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" or letting them watch "The Running Man" what a cautionary tale is.


So you would rather have them rot in a tiny cell for decades then die? Talk about cautoinary tales! You should read 'The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas'.
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 04:20:06 PM  

GBB: Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.

You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.



Bullshiat.


Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.


...Says the pro-torture guy.
 
2014-01-16 04:20:09 PM  

AlgaeRancher: Some suggestions for alternate forms of capital punishment:

1. bear pit
2. piranha tank
3. catapult
4. a very large blender a tire shredder.
5. nitroglycerin water balloon fight
6. whatever they do to put down rabid dogs, if someone wants to live like a sick animal they can die like one.


FTFY
 
2014-01-16 04:20:29 PM  

yanoosh: Could always bring back burning at the stake, sell marshmellows


Are you sure that's environmentally friendly?
 
2014-01-16 04:20:34 PM  

Dimensio: Marcus Aurelius: dittybopper: So we can go with my other idea, then.

You have to admit that it might be considered "unusual".

The Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the use of "cruel and unusual" punishment. Punishments therefore may be cruel or unusual, so long as they are not both simultaneously.


Could we have a case citation for this, please, counselor?
 
2014-01-16 04:20:35 PM  

skozlaw: Kit Fister: I'm OK with his definition of a justice system. Remove those who commit the worst, most atrocious crimes from society and from the face of the earth. Permanent cold storage. We have enough humans on this planet that those who do especially evil things deserve to be removed from it.

Even ignoring the wrongness of that, the notion that a victim should automatically become an arbiter of right and wrong is insane.

Vengeance and justice are not the same thing.


The system decides the punishment. If the victim has no issues with the punishment, there is no problem. If the victim takes umbrage with the punishment, let the judge review the punishment. Otherwise, no issues, carry it out after due appeals and reviews.
 
2014-01-16 04:20:50 PM  

Dimensio: I disagree. Executions should in fact be open to the public, and even publicly broadcast.

That may cause a reassessment of popular support for capital punishment.


Who are you kidding? In a country that obsesses over Duck Dynasty and Doomsday Preppers publicly broadcast executions would be the most popular show on TV.
 
2014-01-16 04:21:20 PM  

Tricky Chicken: So you would rather have them rot in a tiny cell for decades then die? Talk about cautoinary tales! You should read 'The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas'.


This. I think it's much less cruel to just kill me than to make me stay isolated in a cell for the rest of my life.
 
2014-01-16 04:21:22 PM  

EyeballKid: lennavan: You just promised to not argue against capital punishment with a single anecdote about an innocent person on death row.  You get that, right?

I guess I'll just to fall back on my having been able to lose my tail, develop thumbs at the end of my hands, and think a little better than my less-evolved ancestors to argue against capital punishment.

But, you think if the bad man hurt, you no hurt more, right?


I have no idea.  I think if the family of the victims want vengeance, that's their right.  I only support capital punishment in cases where there is clear guilt and there is a person who wants vengeance.

Some guy out there had his eight months pregnant fianceé brutally raped and murdered.  Who the fark are you to tell him what will or will not help the hurt?
 
2014-01-16 04:21:24 PM  

EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.


Yep. It's revenge, not punishment. Makes us no better than them. You can imprison them for much less money if they're on death row, and through a chain-gang, they can actually contribute to society again. We have the ability to protect our society from convicted criminals without murdering them.
 
2014-01-16 04:21:25 PM  

you are a puppet: And as you stated, the arson clues were evidence "at the time" of his trial; at the time of his execution, not so much.


There were almost two dozen clues of arson.  About half of them have since been found to also occur in non-arson fires.  That leaves about a dozen clues of arson that are STILL clues of arson and about a dozen that are 90% likely to be arson.  If something has a 10% chance of happening... the chance of it happening 10 times in a row are 1 in 10,000,000,000 which is way more certainty than you can get from DNA tests... and thats without considering the other forensic evidence of arson that is STILL evidence of arson and all the other non-forensic evidence.  It is quite certain that some people have been wrongly convicted of arson, but Willingham wasn't one of them.
 
2014-01-16 04:21:29 PM  

WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?


I'm ok with this guy getting the death penalty because he deserved it. That has nothing to do with the fact that cruel and unusual punishment is banned by the constitution. This was a form of torture which is banned
 
2014-01-16 04:21:30 PM  

you are a puppet: the money is in the banana stand: -Abolish the Death Penalty
-Bring back Labor Camps
-Heavily scrutinize Labor Camps to ensure no illegal profiteering is occurring
-Folks unable to perform manual labor will perform something non-physical
-Trades and Skills taught to all inmates
-Inmates must pay for their stay by working
-Those with more valuable skills or that show strong signs of work ethic, receive proportionate benefits.

Change 'inmates' to 'citizens' and let's have some fun!


How is this cruel or unusual? How it is administered may be, but I am not advocating that.
 
2014-01-16 04:22:13 PM  
give me doughnuts:No. If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy with  all death peanlty convictions, then there should be no death penalty.

I agree.

Which is why it was spectacular that this guy was executed.
 
GBB
2014-01-16 04:22:15 PM  

Bf+: GBB: Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.

You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.


Bullshiat.


Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.


...Says the pro-torture guy.


And where did I indicate that I was pro-torture?
What filter of lenses are you looking through, bud?
 
2014-01-16 04:23:26 PM  
What about bleach?  How long would nice big intravenous bleach injection take to kill a guy?
 
2014-01-16 04:23:43 PM  

Warlordtrooper: WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?

I'm ok with this guy getting the death penalty because he deserved it. That has nothing to do with the fact that cruel and unusual punishment is banned by the constitution. This was a form of torture which is banned


I'm pretty sure the guy you replied to is arguing his opinion, versus what is law.
 
2014-01-16 04:23:44 PM  

lennavan: Who the fark are you to tell him what will or will not help the hurt?


Well, since that is the point of the justice system and the law...
 
2014-01-16 04:23:48 PM  

orclover: [www.cageyfilms.com image 300x140]

/nothing obscure



I remember this but I can't quite place it.
 
2014-01-16 04:24:06 PM  

lennavan: That said, while I'm not an MD, it seems pretty likely it wasn't that cruel considering he was given a strong dose of an anesthetic. It's kind of like the cases of brain dead people still on ventilators like Terry Schiavo or that Jahi McMath girl. Sure their body might be physically doing things but that doesn't mean they're alive or feel any pain or anything like that.


I dunno, seems like the standard for "can feel pain" is a bit squishy these days.

// squishy like an 18-week-old fetus
// but yes, we should wait for the medicos to figure out whether (e.g.) there is lots of cortisol in the deceased's bloodstream (stress hormone = stress ?= pain) before making a Federal case out of it
 
2014-01-16 04:24:56 PM  

EyeballKid: lennavan: Who the fark are you to tell him what will or will not help the hurt?

Well, since that is the point of the justice system and the law...


Uh yeah, that is actually most definitely a big component of the justice system.  You do know victims get to make impact statements that judges use to hand down sentences, right?
 
2014-01-16 04:27:02 PM  

ChipNASA: Somacandra: dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.

I say morphine, then guillotine, and then dynamite.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 181x300]

If he gets up and walk away after that, then he's Casca Longinus and you'll never kill him anyway.

I had the entire series minus a few books back in the 1990s.

AWESOME Series.


I read several of them. They were fun. Nerdy flashback stuff like this Is one of the things I love most about Fark.

Everytime I see somebidy in a film miraculously heal (The Crow, Terminator, Highlander, Wolverine etc.) I always think 'well you shouldn't have killed that jew you jerk'.
 
2014-01-16 04:27:52 PM  
Ohio officials used intravenous doses of two drugs, the sedative midazolam and the painkiller hydromorphone, to put McGuire to death for the 1989 rape and fatal stabbing of a pregnant woman, Joy Stewart.

And why should i give a ripe fark if this piece of shiat suffers before croaking? I don't, and ill bet the relatives of the victim dont either. I would bet, that they wish he suffered more. I'm sure his victim felt terror and pain as he raped and murdered her and her baby. This was a piece of shiat they flushed. Don't expect me to shed tears that he "gasped" and "felt fear". fark him, and fark his scumbag lawyers.
 
2014-01-16 04:28:53 PM  

WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?


I see the "the state should be at least as brutal as psychotic criminals" brigade has shown up.

Because that always ends so well.
 
2014-01-16 04:29:18 PM  

never trust a bunny: I'm astonishedoso many people in this thread are whining about sympathy for this guy. Most are saying kill him humanly but by all means kill him. I don't really see that as sympathy. For the record I vote guillotine.


A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"
 
2014-01-16 04:29:37 PM  
A bullet to the back of the head is much easier and quicker. One thing the Soviets got right.
 
2014-01-16 04:29:52 PM  
The right to seek revenge is a basic human right.  Any nation with a justice system that does not include capital punishment is guilty of human-rights violations.
 
2014-01-16 04:30:26 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: And why should i give a ripe fark if this piece of shiat suffers before croaking? I don't, and ill bet the relatives of the victim dont either. I would bet, that they wish he suffered more. I'm sure his victim felt terror and pain as he raped and murdered her and her baby. This was a piece of shiat they flushed. Don't expect me to shed tears that he "gasped" and "felt fear". fark him, and fark his scumbag lawyers.


I think the idea is that we should have compassion for every human being (except unborn fetuses), no matter what, and thus it is wrong to kill anyone.

I guess I've got a hell of a lot less respect for the lives of people that commit heinous crimes, or attempt to hurt and injure me and mine, and don't give a shiat if we cleanse the system of those who would likewise do something bad to others again.
 
2014-01-16 04:32:02 PM  

Dr Dreidel: I dunno, seems like the standard for "can feel pain" is a bit squishy these days.


It heavily depends on what specific case you are thinking of.

Dr Dreidel: // squishy like an 18-week-old fetus


That is an amazingly "squishy" case, I agree.  Midazolam is used to put you to sleep for surgery and hydromorphone is a morphine derivative, widely used pain relief drug.  You can't ask a fetus "can you feel this" or "are you awake."  But you can ask millions of different adult surgery patients over years and years of usage whether or not they can feel pain before/after hydromorphone.

Dr Dreidel: // but yes, we should wait for the medicos to figure out whether (e.g.) there is lots of cortisol in the deceased's bloodstream (stress hormone = stress ?= pain) before making a Federal case out of it


Yeah, considering they are used commonly for surgery and other patients, I don't think we need to put much study into it.  That's why I'm saying, I highly doubt that guy was anything other than a vegetable making noises after the first few moments.
 
2014-01-16 04:32:13 PM  
C) mix up your own brew and hope it doesn't leave people gasping and choking for 15 minutes before they die

Truth be told, they couldn't care less.
 
Bf+
2014-01-16 04:32:18 PM  

GBB: Bf+: GBB: Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.

You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.


Bullshiat.


Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.


...Says the pro-torture guy.

And where did I indicate that I was pro-torture?
What filter of lenses are you looking through, bud?



Apologies, I confused you with the person who Boobiesed, "I hope he did suffer", (to which you replied.)  Sorry.
My main point is that the only purpose of the death penalty is tortuous vengeance.  All the replies focused on the fault of his children for being present.  However, I stand by my bullshiat call-- I don't think innocent relatives deserve to watch, or even have to know about a botched (or otherwise) execution, and I never implied they should.
 
2014-01-16 04:32:21 PM  

lennavan: give me doughnuts:No. If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy with  all death peanlty convictions, then there should be no death penalty.

I agree.

Which is why it was spectacular that this guy was executed.



And you are just as positive about every other person currently on death row?
 
2014-01-16 04:33:09 PM  
www.the-frat-pack.com
 
2014-01-16 04:33:19 PM  
knobmaker: overdosing on anesthetics and pain meds is as bad as being anally raped and stabbed to death.

I disagree.
 
2014-01-16 04:33:31 PM  

TheWhoppah: The right to seek revenge is a basic human right. Any nation with a justice system that does not include capital punishment is guilty of human-rights violations.


3/10

You're really not very good at this.
 
2014-01-16 04:33:32 PM  

Coder: A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"


My ethics system boils down to:

Is he a nice guy? Yes/no
Is his condition the result of his own actions? yes/no
Was he capable of understanding the consequences of his own actions? yes/no
Is he legitimately sorry for what he did? Yes/no
Will he do it again? Yes/no
Does his existence pose a threat to others? Yes/no


Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.
 
2014-01-16 04:33:57 PM  

you are a puppet: TheWhoppah: DarkSoulNoHope: The good thing to do is drag it out for all the people who may have been falsely convicted, because I know Texas has killed a couple of innocent people.

More Willingham bullshiat?  The evidence of his guilt is overwhelming, regardless of what the Net Yorker magazine does to sell subscriptions.  I'll give you that Carl DeLuna in 1989 might have been innocent.  But most of those innocence claims from Texas are pure bullshiat.  Texas did have a bunch of RAPE exhortations because Dallas saved all the rape kits going back into the 1970s and then went back and DNA tested all of them.  Every other city in the nation disposed of their old rape kits so there was nothing left to test... so Texas gets a black-eye over it.  I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

How do you define overwhelming? IIRC the only actual evidence was the later disputed arson report? Unless you're including the Led Zeppelin posters and snake tattoos as evidence. Or his cowardice.


It did not help Willingham's case that he was able to *shout* a twelve-syllable sentence seconds after he said he spent what appears to have been at least a minute or two negotiating his way around the inside of his burning house in smoke so thick that he couldn't see.

http://ignoranting.blogspot.com/2004/12/innocent-man-dying-how-texas -e xecuted.html  (pro-Willingham source, btw)

Funny how his lungs were so functional at a time when most of us would have been choking and gasping on ash.

I would not have executed Willingham--I think he deserved life in prison for what he did--but I'm convinced that he was guilty.
 
2014-01-16 04:34:15 PM  

hardinparamedic: I don't mean to harsh anyone's mellow in here, but to be perfectly fair, his symptoms were exactly what happens when a person is given a massive overdose of narcotics, namely snoring and agonal respiration. And something tells me that he wasn't aware of anything around him, let alone the fact he was choking to death.

The only difference between this and previous executions is that they don't use the paralytic to mask the symptoms, and the potassium bolus to cause cardiac arrest.

Sounds like the State got exactly what they wanted.

However, it's hard for me to feel sorry for a man who raped and murdered a pregnant woman with a knife. He still died far easier than she did.


But it's still the media's job to bring their personal feelings into reporting, so the rest of us can form an unbiased opinion.
 
2014-01-16 04:36:15 PM  

give me doughnuts: lennavan: give me doughnuts:No. If you can't guarantee 100% accuracy with  all death peanlty convictions, then there should be no death penalty.

I agree.

Which is why it was spectacular that this guy was executed.


And you are just as positive about every other person currently on death row?


Nope.

But I am about this guy.  So yay, some raping murdering asshole is dead.
 
2014-01-16 04:36:52 PM  
The combination of an opiate (hydromorphone) + a benzodiazepine (midazolam) is pretty common for anesthesia in the hospital for minor procedures.  Anyone who's had a colonoscopy or other similar exam has probably had some combination of these drugs (fentanyl would probably be more common than hydromorphone, but midazolam would probably still be used).
 
2014-01-16 04:37:33 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: And why should i give a ripe fark if this piece of shiat suffers before croaking? I don't, and ill bet the relatives of the victim dont either. I would bet, that they wish he suffered more. I'm sure his victim felt terror and pain as he raped and murdered her and her baby. This was a piece of shiat they flushed. Don't expect me to shed tears that he "gasped" and "felt fear". fark him, and fark his scumbag lawyers.


Yeah, let's build our justice system around that sentiment...
 
GBB
2014-01-16 04:38:23 PM  

Bf+: GBB: Bf+: GBB: Bf+: WhyKnot: His children did not have to attend, that was their decision.

durbnpoisn: That was their own choice.

GBB: They didn't have to be, nor should they have been, there.

You convinced me-- They deserve far worse.

You are the only one claiming they deserve anything.


Bullshiat.


Don't project your depravity onto others.  Own it.


...Says the pro-torture guy.

And where did I indicate that I was pro-torture?
What filter of lenses are you looking through, bud?


Apologies, I confused you with the person who Boobiesed, "I hope he did suffer", (to which you replied.)  Sorry.
My main point is that the only purpose of the death penalty is tortuous vengeance.  All the replies focused on the fault of his children for being present.  However, I stand by my bullshiat call-- I don't think innocent relatives deserve to watch, or even have to know about a botched (or otherwise) execution, and I never implied they should.


Gotcha.  I've been guilty of mis-reading replies as well.

I agree with your point on the death penalty and raise you that that the entirety of the justice system is revenge.  Revenge is even in the bible (Eye for an eye).
And no, they didn't need to watch.  My reply was that they shouldn't have been there.  But, I also don't know the circumstances.  How old were they?  Did the have a choice, or were they in-tow?
 
2014-01-16 04:39:32 PM  

Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.


You tend to see the brighter side of things don't you?
 
2014-01-16 04:39:44 PM  

Kit Fister: Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.



"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien
 
2014-01-16 04:41:19 PM  
Between this and what happened to the cops who beat the homeless guy to death... fear level is rising. justice system will be pretty much dead in 10 years.
 
2014-01-16 04:43:41 PM  
Punishment way better than the death penalty:

Supermax isolation.  23.5 hour lockdown.  Other half hour can be spent showering or shuffling in a 10'x4' dog run.  No human contact ever.  Bland food delivered by mask wearing, silent guard.  No books, TV, radio, or stimulation of any kind.  No visitors.  No pillow.  No window. Just a 2" thick foam mat, concrete, and a steel crapper/sink.  Forever.

Way cheaper than the death penalty and guaranteed to drive any person insane.  And deemed perfectly legal.  Just set it and forget it.

Yes, the lawyer can visit, but only until the appeals are exhausted, and because this would be a garden variety prison term and not an execution, the appeals process would end quickly and the bastard wouldn't enjoy death row "cause celebre" status.
 
2014-01-16 04:43:55 PM  
I don't know how lesser states handle death penalty cases but in Texas you get a FREE attorney off a special death penalty list and that attorney gets whatever resources or experts they need to prepare an adequate defense.  You don't just get any old tax or real-estate lawyer... you get a free criminal law specialist lawyer that has agreed to defend death penalty cases.  And a free automatic appeal if you are sentenced to die.  Plus the state pays for additional appeals in the federal courts if you can't get it reversed in state court.  The legal bills paid by the state are always in the hundreds of thousands if not millions on these things.

Sure some lesser states and nations will put you in prison for life without parole but you don't get nearly the protection against being wrongly convicted.  They just lock you up and throw away the key.  At least in Texas you've got a fighting chance for freedom.
 
2014-01-16 04:44:20 PM  
Fine, bring back the electric chair.    Much cooler way to die anyway.  For the mass murderer obsessed with his own legend, how do you think he wants it to end?  getting the needle and nodding off to sleep or being strapped to old sparky.
 
2014-01-16 04:44:34 PM  

Kit Fister: Coder: A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"

My ethics system boils down to:

Is he a nice guy? Yes/no
Is his condition the result of his own actions? yes/no
Was he capable of understanding the consequences of his own actions? yes/no
Is he legitimately sorry for what he did? Yes/no
Will he do it again? Yes/no
Does his existence pose a threat to others? Yes/no


Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.


And I largely agree with you. But killing them is enough. Put them to death quick, clean, painless. No justice system worth its name inflicts unnecessary suffering to satiate blood-lust.
 
2014-01-16 04:44:42 PM  
He was from Ohio, he probably wanted to die anyways.
I know I would if I lived in Ohio.
 
2014-01-16 04:45:21 PM  

EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.


The entire concept of "war" would like a word with you.
 
2014-01-16 04:46:15 PM  

TheWhoppah: I don't know how lesser states handle death penalty cases but in Texas you get a FREE attorney off a special death penalty list and that attorney gets whatever resources or experts they need to prepare an adequate defense.  You don't just get any old tax or real-estate lawyer... you get a free criminal law specialist lawyer that has agreed to defend death penalty cases.  And a free automatic appeal if you are sentenced to die.  Plus the state pays for additional appeals in the federal courts if you can't get it reversed in state court.  The legal bills paid by the state are always in the hundreds of thousands if not millions on these things.

Sure some lesser states and nations will put you in prison for life without parole but you don't get nearly the protection against being wrongly convicted.  They just lock you up and throw away the key.  At least in Texas you've got a fighting chance for freedom.


That's actually really good evidence there why the Death Penalty is such a costly thing, way more costly than just locking someone up for life.
 
2014-01-16 04:46:24 PM  
This guy was given a whopping dose of Versed.  There was no suffering on his part.  None.  He was fully unconscious/unaware in seconds.

His family, unfortunately, did suffer.
 
2014-01-16 04:46:55 PM  
img.fark.net

To those who say its cruel and unusual  .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.
 
2014-01-16 04:47:03 PM  

sore_bluto: Way cheaper than the death penalty and guaranteed to drive any person insane.


The ONLY reason this is cheaper is that the state doesn't spend NEARLY as much on defense.  In other words, innocent people are much more likely to end up on LWOP than being executed.
 
2014-01-16 04:49:53 PM  

BigOle8point: If you don't like the death penalty, too bad

vote.
 
2014-01-16 04:49:56 PM  

BigOle8point: [img.fark.net image 205x246]

To those who say its cruel and unusual  .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.


From your own bio:

The Fark comments section used to be the hands down best on the web. Current state is people being dicks to each other. I hate you all for ruining what was once a very witty, very funny comments section.

I see you've changed your mind.
 
2014-01-16 04:49:56 PM  
Fark this guy,  they should've waterboarded him, bled him a little and then fed him slowly to a pen of unfed pigs.  Honestly people.  He deserves to rot in hell.

Subby -2 for the improper use of the Sick tag and of course flounting liberal ideals that are not tied to any sort of common sense.
 
2014-01-16 04:50:10 PM  
0-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2014-01-16 04:50:26 PM  

McFifenstein: He was from Ohio, he probably wanted to die anyways.
I know I would if I lived in Ohio.


31.media.tumblr.com

/oblig.

Also interesting that about every 50 miles or so, there's a sign in Kansas that says "home of astronaut so-and-so."
 
2014-01-16 04:53:31 PM  

Joe Blowme: Mirandized: Joe Blowme: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

THIS times eleventy billion

I don't understand this at all. You are not responsible for what this piece of shiat did. You are responsible for what the State does in your name. He acted as a monster so the State in our name should also act as a monster? That lowers us to his level. I want my government to be better than this piece of shiat.

Like abortion? Better like that? At least this guy was guilty (DNA), unlike the unborn


Sorry, I didn't realize you were trolling.
 
2014-01-16 04:54:22 PM  

jshine: Kit Fister: Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.


"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien


He admitted to killing her.
 
2014-01-16 04:55:07 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Kit Fister: Coder: A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"

My ethics system boils down to:

Is he a nice guy? Yes/no
Is his condition the result of his own actions? yes/no
Was he capable of understanding the consequences of his own actions? yes/no
Is he legitimately sorry for what he did? Yes/no
Will he do it again? Yes/no
Does his existence pose a threat to others? Yes/no


Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.

I find it interesting that you missed the most important and probably should be the first thought:

did he commit the crime: yes/no


He admitted to killing her.
 
2014-01-16 04:55:17 PM  

dameron: BigOle8point: [img.fark.net image 205x246]

To those who say its cruel and unusual  .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.

From your own bio:

The Fark comments section used to be the hands down best on the web. Current state is people being dicks to each other. I hate you all for ruining what was once a very witty, very funny comments section.

I see you've changed your mind.


Nope. I still hate everyone.
 
2014-01-16 04:56:03 PM  

jshine: Kit Fister: Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.


"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien


Yeah?  Why didn't they just fly the ring to Mount Doom with the f*cking giant eagles?

So much for clever J.R.R. Tolkien.
 
2014-01-16 04:56:08 PM  

i478.photobucket.com

 
2014-01-16 04:57:07 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Kit Fister: Coder: A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"

My ethics system boils down to:

Is he a nice guy? Yes/no
Is his condition the result of his own actions? yes/no
Was he capable of understanding the consequences of his own actions? yes/no
Is he legitimately sorry for what he did? Yes/no
Will he do it again? Yes/no
Does his existence pose a threat to others? Yes/no


Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.

I find it interesting that you missed the most important and probably should be the first thought:

did he commit the crime: yes/no


If one is assuming the same ethical code for all walks of life, that is a precursor question to the ones posed above.
 
2014-01-16 04:57:58 PM  
Just go back to the firing squad, no prolonged pain and suffering (if you aim right).
 
2014-01-16 05:00:17 PM  
anesthetized people gasp and agonal breathing when they are over sedated, and about to become apneic. Awareness and consciousness have nothing to do with these primitive responses. This guy was in a deeply unconscious state, which would put regular sleep to shame.

None of this makes institutionalized killing any less distasteful and barbaric.
 
2014-01-16 05:00:23 PM  

Coder: And I largely agree with you. But killing them is enough. Put them to death quick, clean, painless. No justice system worth its name inflicts unnecessary suffering to satiate blood-lust.


oh I agree. There's no reason to torture a person if your intent is to simply remove them. A quick, clean kill. No reason to draw it out, except for Kiddie rapers.  Blood eagle them and hang their bodies on pikes outside the jail as a warning to others,
 
2014-01-16 05:00:33 PM  

lennavan: That is an amazingly "squishy" case, I agree. Midazolam is used to put you to sleep for surgery and hydromorphone is a morphine derivative, widely used pain relief drug. You can't ask a fetus "can you feel this" or "are you awake." But you can ask millions of different adult surgery patients over years and years of usage whether or not they can feel pain before/after hydromorphone.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't TFA say that they used different concentrations for this cocktail than are used in hospitals? If that's the case, while interviews with patients who've taken the same drugs might be informative, until we have someone experience the cocktail (at close to those concentrations/dosages) for themselves and report back, we'll have to use auxiliary methods to figure out what is "felt" during the execution.

But generally speaking, we want executions to be as quick and painless as possible. We don't execute criminals to sate peoples' bloodlust.

// and there is something exceedingly perverse, IMO, about a state "winging it" at an execution, or fighting just as hard as they can to kill people in untested ways
 
2014-01-16 05:02:01 PM  

Mr.Hawk: [i478.photobucket.com image 500x318]


To be fair, that technique was used to extract confessions, so they could justly execute you. Sure, you might die from it, but that's incidental.
 
2014-01-16 05:02:44 PM  
probably already been said...

but who gives a crap if he died in pain, choking, and afraid....

how did his victim die? After being brutally raped, do you think she just fell asleep and went peacefully? I don't have the details, but the man raped and killed a woman, and then got to sit around getting free food, heat, healtcare for 20 years.

Executions could quite literally be free if we just used the old method of hanging. Quick/easy/painless/cheap, what the hell else do you want?

I hope he suffered a ton -- just like what he did to his victim
 
2014-01-16 05:03:20 PM  

Lem Motlow: jshine: Kit Fister: Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien

He admitted to killing her.



It's a statement of general principle regarding the death penalty, not about this case in particular.

/ though even with a confession, certainty isn't 100% -- there have been plenty of false confessions, both voluntary and coerced
 
2014-01-16 05:03:23 PM  

Coder: never trust a bunny: I'm astonishedoso many people in this thread are whining about sympathy for this guy. Most are saying kill him humanly but by all means kill him. I don't really see that as sympathy. For the record I vote guillotine.

A lot of people in this thread mistakenly think we want them to have compassion for this guy. Not at all. We want you to have an ethics system more robust than "Do I feel compassion for this guy?"


Pretty much yeah. I don't feel sorry for him one little bit. I just don't see how torturing anybody can be considered acceptable. What worries me is what it says about us as a society. This guy deserved to die. That's that the issue in my mind.
 
2014-01-16 05:05:28 PM  

dittybopper: So why don't we just overdose them with morphine?  We know it works, and we know it's painless, and it's less messy than my idea of using explosive lenses to implode the heads of criminals like the pit of an atomic bomb, which, btw, is quite humane, because the explosive shockwave is faster than nerve conduction speed, so it's like instantly turning off a light.  They'd never even know when the end happens, because they'd be dead before the sensations could reach their brains.


Largely because of the following reasons:

a) A lot (a LOT) of pharmaceutical companies are based overseas in jurisidictions that have signed laws against selling anything to be used for purposes of capital punishment (basically the reason we don't use morphine is the same reason we stopped using the propofol/paralytic two-step)

b) A LOT of those same pharmaceutical companies have stated outright that they will not sell ANY product to the US if the stuff is at risk of being used for capital punishment even via diversion (which is why they had to stop using propofol and are now using Versed in the homebrew cocktail--there was a real risk that NO company would sell propofol to the US due to its use in capital punishment, and at least Versed is technically in generic status).

c) Pretty much all the drugs commonly used for executions (both now and in past in the US) have been "dual-use" drugs that are used in surgery in humans.  Pretty much anything we can use to execute humans without it ending up in a literal Supreme Court case...ends up in the same problem.

And now I'm just waiting for companies to say they aren't going to sell Versed (or its generic version) unless they stop use in capital punishment.  I also expect this particular form of chucklefarkery will continue up to the point where there are entire states which can no longer use humane methods of euthanising animals because the local DoC decided to start using Fatal Plus on their death-row inmates to avoid putting human drugs at risk of not being available during surgery.

As for answers...the easiest answer is to really avoid anything "dual use" altogether, but the one major method of executing humans chemically (not using pharmaceuticals usually meant for surgery) has tended to be frowned upon for some time (legally in the US since the 80s, and in general since its invention by a group of folks in Europe back in the 40s for crimes against humanity); I really don't see the gas chamber coming back.

There's also the option of not using chemical means (in the traditional sense) of execution, instead using more tried-and-true physics-based methods of execution....decapitation, basilar skull fracture (by being dropped in a manner that ensures a clean basilar skull fracture and snappage of the brain stem), or firearms.  These tend to bring the reality of death a bit closer, however, and do require some amount of skill to do properly.  The same people who tend to be squeamish re gas executions and the use of electricity as a Thomas Edison-tested method of sure execution also tend to be squeamish about these methods, though...

(Note that I don't mention bringing back the chair--that's pretty much out for the same reason gas is out--nor do I mention doing away with capital punishment save in cases of treason (which--knowing some parts of the US--I think will probably happen about the time the NHL announces the Winter Classic is to be played in downtown Hades due to the latter being about as cold as Moosetits, Alberta in January).  I also think that at least in some parts of the country there might not be that much of a PROBLEM getting a proper firing squad together, to be honest.)
 
2014-01-16 05:05:39 PM  
The badass sci-fi novel Legion of the Damned by William C. Dietz includes the execution of an armed robber/murderer in which he is strapped naked to a table and shot in the same exact spots his victim was. I'm ok with that.
 
2014-01-16 05:06:37 PM  

jshine: The combination of an opiate (hydromorphone) + a benzodiazepine (midazolam) is pretty common for anesthesia in the hospital for minor procedures.  Anyone who's had a colonoscopy or other similar exam has probably had some combination of these drugs (fentanyl would probably be more common than hydromorphone, but midazolam would probably still be used).


Fentanyl is popular because of it's short life (30 minutes, versus four hours for hydromorphone).

Still, I'm willing to bet that the doses they gave this guy were far above and beyond what even the anesthesia or drug-facilitated intubation doses were, and into the realm of irreversable circulatory collapse/shock levels. Even when they used phenobarb, they gave beyond the LD50 amount in a single bolus dose.
 
2014-01-16 05:07:20 PM  

Dimensio: EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.

Murder is, by definition, unlawful. Therefore the legally authorized taking of human life -- even with premeditation and malice aforethought -- is not murder.


So what the Nazis did to the Jews was not murder?
 
2014-01-16 05:07:39 PM  
Amazing that some people are against this shiatbag getting what he deserves.

If you don't want to die a potentially slow, painful, agonizing death then perhaps you might try a little less rapey-stabby shenanigans. Actions do have consequences, you know.

The most appalling part is that it took so long for them to finally go through with it.
 
2014-01-16 05:07:46 PM  

Great Porn Dragon: a) A lot (a LOT) of pharmaceutical companies are based overseas in jurisidictions that have signed laws against selling anything to be used for purposes of capital punishment (basically the reason we don't use morphine is the same reason we stopped using the propofol/paralytic two-step)


What jurisdiction was using propofol? I know a lot of them were using phenobarbital, but propofol would be a horrible idea for an execution drug - the amount required would be insane.
 
2014-01-16 05:08:24 PM  

sore_bluto: Punishment way better than the death penalty:

Supermax isolation.  23.5 hour lockdown.  Other half hour can be spent showering or shuffling in a 10'x4' dog run.  No human contact ever.  Bland food delivered by mask wearing, silent guard.  No books, TV, radio, or stimulation of any kind.  No visitors.  No pillow.  No window. Just a 2" thick foam mat, concrete, and a steel crapper/sink.  Forever.

Way cheaper than the death penalty and guaranteed to drive any person insane.  And deemed perfectly legal.  Just set it and forget it.

Yes, the lawyer can visit, but only until the appeals are exhausted, and because this would be a garden variety prison term and not an execution, the appeals process would end quickly and the bastard wouldn't enjoy death row "cause celebre" status.


Might as well send him to an asteroid with a fembot.
 
2014-01-16 05:08:25 PM  

Coder: Bit'O'Gristle: And why should i give a ripe fark if this piece of shiat suffers before croaking? I don't, and ill bet the relatives of the victim dont either. I would bet, that they wish he suffered more. I'm sure his victim felt terror and pain as he raped and murdered her and her baby. This was a piece of shiat they flushed. Don't expect me to shed tears that he "gasped" and "felt fear". fark him, and fark his scumbag lawyers.

Yeah, let's build our justice system around that sentiment...


Forget it, it's derp town in Fark death penalty threads. It's apparently impossible for some people to quell their bloodlust long enough to consider the ramifications of actions throughout our justice system. Consideration beyond the thought process of "bad man dead! Good!" is too much for them.

The bad man is dead. Sorry he didn't suffer enough for some of you or the method of his death was not entertaining enough or cheap enough. I'll continue to absolutely abhor the fact we trust the government to kill people. Yes I know that means I love criminals and support what this guy did to some of you. Luckily, if you think that, you're a fool and I don't listen to the rantings of fools.

/I seriously don't get you bloodthirsty idiots...you want him to suffer? Life in jail is far worse than killing him, like much much worse. It's cheaper too because of the farking inefficiency of having the government kill people. It also removes them permanently from society which is the farking purpose of punishment in a justice system, not to satisfy bloodlust of the keyboard warriors
//oh wait I do get you, too many torture porn movies and revenge fantasies...ta da "let's torture him...blow up his head...hang him so he suffocates...unh yeah I'm almost there"
///how's that deterrent effect of the death penalty working out? Clearly worked on this guy, he was so deterred by it he killed someone
////it's totally not our base instinct for revenge motivating it at all
 
2014-01-16 05:09:55 PM  

Kit Fister: Coder: And I largely agree with you. But killing them is enough. Put them to death quick, clean, painless. No justice system worth its name inflicts unnecessary suffering to satiate blood-lust.

oh I agree. There's no reason to torture a person if your intent is to simply remove them. A quick, clean kill. No reason to draw it out, except for Kiddie rapers. Blood eagle them and hang their bodies on pikes outside the jail as a warning to others,


I always thought drowning them in pus would be appropriate.
 
2014-01-16 05:10:07 PM  
Good.
How long did the woman he raped and stabbed suffer? Hopefully not as long as he did.
 
2014-01-16 05:10:28 PM  

aspAddict: If you don't want to die a potentially slow, painful, agonizing death then perhaps you might try a little less rapey-stabby shenanigans. Actions do have consequences, you know.


Chances are this guy just fell asleep in his own awareness. Versed also causes anterograde amnesia after administration, so he wouldn't have been aware of anything going on afterwords if they gave him the massive dose I suspect they did.

In combination with the hydromorphone in high doses, despite the unpleasant physical appearance of agonal response, (which used to be masked by a paralytic drug - which also masked if they were underdosed, which was very VERY bad.), he didn't know anything was happening to him. The lights were off and no one was home.
 
2014-01-16 05:11:55 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't TFA say that they used different concentrations for this cocktail than are used in hospitals? If that's the case, while interviews with patients who've taken the same drugs might be informative, until we have someone experience the cocktail (at close to those concentrations/dosages) for themselves and report back, we'll have to use auxiliary methods to figure out what is "felt" during the execution.

But generally speaking, we want executions to be as quick and painless as possible. We don't execute criminals to sate peoples' bloodlust.

// and there is something exceedingly perverse, IMO, about a state "winging it" at an execution, or fighting just as hard as they can to kill people in untested ways


as someone who has spent a lot of time in ORs I can tell you that this execution method was essentially general anesthesia induction minus the breathing tube and ventilation. Basically when an anesthesiologist puts you to sleep they either give you either enough sedative drug to make you stop breathing on your own prior to intubation, or they give you enough to snow you, and then give you a paralytic agent which stops your breathing and relaxes your airway.  You will occasionally see non-paralyzed patients, gasp and agonally breath right prior to intubation. They look uncomfortable, but they are so deep they have no recollection of the event.

I guarantee you this guy were he intubated, ventilated and given narcan (essentially saved from the massive over dose he was given) he would have woken up with not the foggiest memory of discomfort.


Not endorsing institutional killing, just saying this hysteria over the method is baseless.
 
2014-01-16 05:12:04 PM  

jshine: Kit Fister: Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.


"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien


Said by a character who killed many people, to another whose hands did not end up clean, and acknowledging in the quote itself that sometimes it is right. The point of your quote is not that no one should ever be killed, only that it is a grave responsibility, to be exercised with the utmost care.
 
2014-01-16 05:12:14 PM  

BigLuca: So what the Nazis did to the Jews was not murder?


Legal killing can be morally right or wrong.
 I'm not an absolutist.
 
2014-01-16 05:14:46 PM  

js34603: Sorry he didn't suffer enough for some of you or the method of his death was not entertaining enough or cheap enough. I'll continue to absolutely abhor the fact we trust the government to kill people.


To be quite frank, in this case I'm quite OK with the death penalty being used. Not only was there overwhelming evidence of his guilt and his own confession that was NOT elicited under duress, the heinousness of the crime would indicate that there was no hope of rehabilitation for this guy.

In that case, this guy died more humanely than your loved family pet would if you took him to the vet to be put down.
 
2014-01-16 05:14:48 PM  
I'm disappointed that no one finished the line from The Running Man.

/NOW: PLAIN ZERO
 
2014-01-16 05:15:02 PM  

BigLuca: Dimensio: EyeballKid: Running a-puck: I'm honestly a bit baffled by people who think torture is ok as long as you're just torturing bad guys.  Torture is not ok.  Ever.  No matter what.  It's TORTURE.
Kill them quickly and painlessly and move on.

I'm honestly baffled by people who think murder is OK as long as you're just murdering bad guys.

Murder is, by definition, unlawful. Therefore the legally authorized taking of human life -- even with premeditation and malice aforethought -- is not murder.

So what the Nazis did to the Jews was not murder?


Godwinned!
 
2014-01-16 05:15:15 PM  

dameron: I find it fascinating that the people who think the government has too much power and is incompetent are by and large huge supporters of the death penalty.

One day the U.S. will get over this bloodthirsty urge and join the rest of the civilized world.  Hopefully this thread will be archived somewhere so the grandchildren of certain posters in this thread can see what kind of savages they were when they were young and stupid.


Yeah. This article has really brought out the best in people. Unthinking blood lust and revenge fantasies. (I know welcometofark.jpg).

There's more to this than "killing bad people is OK". If that sick fark did that to a loved one, would I want to personally slowly torture him death? You betcha! Do I want to live in a society that would let me? Nope!

Likewise I just don't like the idea of living in a society that executes its citizens. Regardless of circumstance. Practically too much room for error. There are way too many fark ups and injustices perpetrated by the 'justice' system. And the disparate application by race and class is a given. But even if there is no doubt whatsoever about guilt, it's just condoning vicious barbarism. Do you really want to condone and institutionalize that as part of the civil society you want to be a part of?
 
2014-01-16 05:16:15 PM  

Millennium: jshine: Kit Fister: Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.


"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien

Said by a character who killed many people, to another whose hands did not end up clean, and acknowledging in the quote itself that sometimes it is right. The point of your quote is not that no one should ever be killed, only that it is a grave responsibility, to be exercised with the utmost care.


Orcs aren't people.

*this message brought to you by the Elven Racial Purity League and the Pervy Hobbit Fancier's Guild
 
2014-01-16 05:16:32 PM  
"As one whose husband and mother-in-law have both died the victims of murder assassination, I stand firmly and unequivocally opposed to the death penalty for those convicted of capital offenses. An evil deed is not redeemed by an evil deed of retaliation. Justice is never advanced in the taking of a human life. Morality is never upheld by legalized murder."

-- Coretta Scott King

I realize this guy was a POS, but the death penalty really is wrong. It's not cheaper than life in prison, and it doesn't bring the victim back to life, so really, what's the point.
 
2014-01-16 05:16:46 PM  

BigLuca: So what the Nazis did to the Jews was not murder?


fc06.deviantart.net.

That was stupid, and you should feel bad for posting it.
 
2014-01-16 05:16:51 PM  

BigOle8point: [img.fark.net image 205x246]

To those who say its cruel and unusual  .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.


This is in your bio:

The Fark comments section used to be the hands down best on the web. Current state is people being dicks to each other. I hate you all for ruining what was once a very witty, very funny comments section.


Just sayin...
 
2014-01-16 05:16:54 PM  

Millennium: jshine: Kit Fister: Beyond that, I see death as simply a form of cold storage. I don't promote death as a means of revenge, but simply as a means of permanently removing the person from the gene pool and freeing up a cell, guards, and resources for others.


"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien

Said by a character who killed many people, to another whose hands did not end up clean, and acknowledging in the quote itself that sometimes it is right. The point of your quote is not that no one should ever be killed, only that it is a grave responsibility, to be exercised with the utmost care.



The point is that it's irreversible & shouldn't be employed unless there's 100% certainty that you've actually got the right guy.  In some cases, that may actually be possible (i.e., there might exist video of the guy committing the crime), but no legal system can guarantee that level of certainty in general.

Yes, in war or in self defense, situations can arise where you need to kill to prevent an obvious, immediate danger to your own life or the lives of others (probably what you're referring to), but that's not the case where punishment for past crimes is concerned.
 
2014-01-16 05:17:02 PM  
Dog Welder


"And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

Any sane person is appalled. That doesn't mean you repeat his actions.
There is zero justification for killing a person who has been subdued and is not a threat. None.
 
2014-01-16 05:18:36 PM  

hardinparamedic: Great Porn Dragon: a) A lot (a LOT) of pharmaceutical companies are based overseas in jurisidictions that have signed laws against selling anything to be used for purposes of capital punishment (basically the reason we don't use morphine is the same reason we stopped using the propofol/paralytic two-step)

What jurisdiction was using propofol? I know a lot of them were using phenobarbital, but propofol would be a horrible idea for an execution drug - the amount required would be insane.


Just enough propofol to induce unconsciousness, then succinylcholine to paralyze.

/As you know, same combo used routinely in anesthesia induction.  They just skip that important "stick a tube in the trachea and turn on the ventilator" step.
 
2014-01-16 05:19:13 PM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: TheShavingofOccam123: QFTA:

A federal judge sided with the state but acknowledged the new method was an experiment.

Please have this judge removed from the bench. This is an idiot. A cruel, nasty idiot.

I dunno.  Depends on who they were experimenting on.  Was it a worst-of-the-worst pedophile?  Par for the course.  Went on a serial-killing spree?  Welcome to the "Serial Killer Victim Experience".  Kidnapped / tortured / raped people?  My sympathy meter just broke Trying to register lower than it was able to.  Not feeling very sorry at all for people on death row, especially when the evidence is overwhelmingly proof that they indeed were heinous individuals.  Ted Bundy, for example.  Don't let his looks and charisma fool you.  That's an unrepentant, cold, sadistic, devious person.  Not fixable, and not worth the oxygen he breathed.


Please have this judge kept on his bench forever. We need people like him (along with the repeal of the Eighth Amendment).

And anyone with a criminal record should be put to death, no matter how minor it is. Any kind of blemished, imperfect record should = DIEDIEDIEDIEDIE!!!!
 
2014-01-16 05:19:30 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: There are way too many fark ups and injustices perpetrated by the 'justice' system. And the disparate application by race and class is a given.


Uh, the guy was white, and aside from the overwhelmingly scientifically defensible evidence of his guilt, he confessed to the crime while not under any duress. In fact, his race and class gave him a great chance of NOT getting the death penalty for his crime.

I get what you are saying, but this guy is the exception to all of your rules you just stated.
 
2014-01-16 05:19:56 PM  

Yellow Beard: I find it fascinating that the people who are staunch anti-death penalty types are by and large huge supporters of abortion. I wonder what those future generations will think of that.


I find it fascinating that the people who support the death penalty by and large are anti-abortion with the justification that, "all life is sacred"
 
2014-01-16 05:20:27 PM  
Punishment as deterrent simply doesn't work, anybody who's been spanked for stealing a cookie from the jar knows this.      The fact that there are still thefts in saudi arabia where such will get your hand chopped off, or rapes which will get your pecker chopped off prove this.

This then, leaves but 2 reasons for the death penalty,  punishment of the guilty and the enjoyment of those watching/performing the punishment.   Consider the witch trials of the past where the gruesome "tests" where the innocent were expected to die,

This was common knowledge, as was the fact that many people were accusing someone of being a witch purely because the accusation alone meant the person would die.  Yet still the trials went on.

This not a good enough defense,  let me close with a passage from my favorite book

"Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?  Do not be so quick to pass out death in judgement, for even the very wise cannot see all ends."
 
2014-01-16 05:21:00 PM  

hardinparamedic: propofol would be a horrible idea for an execution drug - the amount required would be insane.


One would need to administer it in Jacksonian-quantities!
 
2014-01-16 05:21:07 PM  

js34603: /I seriously don't get you bloodthirsty idiots


If it makes you feel better, I don't understand why you sympathize, defend and befriend murdering rapists.
 
2014-01-16 05:21:09 PM  

jshine: The point is that it's irreversible & shouldn't be employed unless there's 100% certainty that you've actually got the right guy.


Which is impossible, yet that impossibility does not obviate the need to have this option. So you do the best you can, which I don't think we quite are: see my post above where I advocate capping the maximum sentence as short of death unless hard evidence with forensic verification can be produced.

This is enough. It has to be.
 
2014-01-16 05:21:11 PM  

Banned on the Run: hardinparamedic: Great Porn Dragon: a) A lot (a LOT) of pharmaceutical companies are based overseas in jurisidictions that have signed laws against selling anything to be used for purposes of capital punishment (basically the reason we don't use morphine is the same reason we stopped using the propofol/paralytic two-step)

What jurisdiction was using propofol? I know a lot of them were using phenobarbital, but propofol would be a horrible idea for an execution drug - the amount required would be insane.

Just enough propofol to induce unconsciousness, then succinylcholine to paralyze.

/As you know, same combo used routinely in anesthesia induction.  They just skip that important "stick a tube in the trachea and turn on the ventilator" step.


midaz + (insert whatever opioid) is also used pretty routinely. paralytics have been used in the past and lawyers have successfully argued that the feeling of being paralyzed and unable to indicate your pain i.e. being locked in is cruel and unusual, so states have shied away from using them

(see my above comment)
 
2014-01-16 05:21:13 PM  
representationsofantiquity.files.wordpress.com

Got it worse.
 
2014-01-16 05:21:52 PM  
Re-usable and effective:
wannaberapper.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-01-16 05:21:52 PM  
oh noes!
the man who sodomized a pregnant woma, tearing her open
before pushing metal into her body over and over until she and her child died..
..expired surrounded by his loved ones,
given a nice meal, a chance to make his spiritual preparation
 and a chance to speak his final words to his family

 you have a problem because he snorted and twitched on a bed

interesting
 
2014-01-16 05:21:54 PM  

Banned on the Run: Just enough propofol to induce unconsciousness, then succinylcholine to paralyze.

/As you know, same combo used routinely in anesthesia induction.  They just skip that important "stick a tube in the trachea and turn on the ventilator" step.


The problem is that the combination used was explicitly developed because of the short half-lives of both drugs. Propofol has a two minute half-life after the infusion is cut off, and about five to ten minutes after bolusing. Anectine (Sux) has a life of about five minutes after the fasiculations stop.

They used Pavulon for the paralytic before going to the one drug/two drug methods with a sedative and opiate they use now. fourty five minute to two hour life span depending on patient.

Which, would be a bad thing if the propofol wore off, or was underdosed before cardiac arrest was induced. That would mean the person was aware of everything happening to him, including suffocating.

Hardly humane. And I wouldn't wish that on the most heinous monster.
 
2014-01-16 05:24:22 PM  
Just kill death row inmates by oxygen displacement. Nitrogen is readily available, cheap, we're certainly not going to run out of it, it's painless... Not sure about whether it damages organs, but I'd suspect not, since you're basically just asphyxiating.

As for why it should be painless, why not? Just because someone is a monster doesn't mean we have to be one too. Just kill them quickly and painlessly and be done with it.

Threads like this are great for expanding my collection of names in 'ITG Yellow' though!
 
2014-01-16 05:24:38 PM  

The Fett: Yellow Beard: I find it fascinating that the people who are staunch anti-death penalty types are by and large huge supporters of abortion. I wonder what those future generations will think of that.

I find it fascinating that the people who support the death penalty by and large are anti-abortion with the justification that, "all life is sacred"


That's why I'm pro-death -- pro-death penalty and pro-choice.
 
2014-01-16 05:24:49 PM  

Millennium: Which is impossible, yet that impossibility does not obviate the need to have this option.


I see no need of any kind.  Obviously there's a need to prevent criminals from re-offending, but that can be accomplished in other ways that are less final.

Millennium: This is enough.


It is not.
 
2014-01-16 05:25:05 PM  
Are we ACTUALLY having a problem figuring how to kill human beings?  REALLY?

Sometime about 200 years ago someone figured out a good method.  You put a metal ball in a big metal tube, and pack explosives behind it.  The ball is expelled with such force it can penetrate a human body and come flying out the other side.

Why the fark is this a problem?
 
2014-01-16 05:26:27 PM  
I wonder why we never see the Right to Lifers in these threads?
 
2014-01-16 05:26:36 PM  

hardinparamedic: Which, would be a bad thing if the propofol wore off, or was underdosed before cardiac arrest was induced. That would mean the person was aware of everything happening to him, including suffocating.


I'm pretty sure the woman who was anally raped and then stabbed to death was aware of everything that was happening to her.  This guy not only wished that but actually inflicted that upon her.

hardinparamedic: Hardly humane. And I wouldn't wish that on the most heinous monster.


Worst case scenario as you have outlined, this guy's last moments on earth would have been spent realizing to a tiny degree what it would have been like to be his victim.

I'm really comin up empty with the empathy here today.
 
2014-01-16 05:26:39 PM  

Rreal: This then, leaves but 2 reasons for the death penalty,  punishment of the guilty and the enjoyment of those watching/performing the punishment.


whalethen.com

Revenge is plenty sufficient justification for the execution of killers.  Spectacle is bonus.
 
2014-01-16 05:27:52 PM  

WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?


TIL our sense of human decency and rule of law goes out the window when vengeance is at stake.
 
2014-01-16 05:28:30 PM  

edmo: I wonder why we never see the Right to Lifers in these threads?


You do -- they're waving torches & pitchforks and baying for blood.
 
2014-01-16 05:29:05 PM  
They gave me Hydromorphone plenty of times when I had diverticulitis and ended up in the ER curled up in a ball crying like a beeyotch. They gave me that and I didn't feel a damn thing until it wore off...
 
2014-01-16 05:29:37 PM  

lennavan: hardinparamedic: Which, would be a bad thing if the propofol wore off, or was underdosed before cardiac arrest was induced. That would mean the person was aware of everything happening to him, including suffocating.

I'm pretty sure the woman who was anally raped and then stabbed to death was aware of everything that was happening to her.  This guy not only wished that but actually inflicted that upon her.

hardinparamedic: Hardly humane. And I wouldn't wish that on the most heinous monster.

Worst case scenario as you have outlined, this guy's last moments on earth would have been spent realizing to a tiny degree what it would have been like to be his victim.

I'm really comin up empty with the empathy here today.


Same here.  This guy gave up any right to be treated like a person the moment her carried out his act.  Gave over Johnny.  You get nothing.  You have no more say, no more value.  You crossed the line and you can't come back.
 
2014-01-16 05:29:55 PM  

lennavan: I'm really comin up empty with the empathy here today.


And that's not sociopathic in the least.

The purpose of the death penalty is to remove someone who's actions, beyond a reasonable doubt, are so heinous that society can no longer tolerate their existence. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you want torture, steal obama's magic time machine and go back a few hundred years.
 
2014-01-16 05:31:01 PM  

Lem Motlow: lennavan: hardinparamedic: Which, would be a bad thing if the propofol wore off, or was underdosed before cardiac arrest was induced. That would mean the person was aware of everything happening to him, including suffocating.

I'm pretty sure the woman who was anally raped and then stabbed to death was aware of everything that was happening to her.  This guy not only wished that but actually inflicted that upon her.

hardinparamedic: Hardly humane. And I wouldn't wish that on the most heinous monster.

Worst case scenario as you have outlined, this guy's last moments on earth would have been spent realizing to a tiny degree what it would have been like to be his victim.

I'm really comin up empty with the empathy here today.

Same here.  This guy gave up any right to be treated like a person the moment her carried out his act.  Gave  Game over Johnny.  You get nothing.  You have no more say, no more value.  You crossed the line and you can't come back.


FTFM
 
2014-01-16 05:32:04 PM  

hardinparamedic: Banned on the Run: Just enough propofol to induce unconsciousness, then succinylcholine to paralyze.

/As you know, same combo used routinely in anesthesia induction.  They just skip that important "stick a tube in the trachea and turn on the ventilator" step.

The problem is that the combination used was explicitly developed because of the short half-lives of both drugs. Propofol has a two minute half-life after the infusion is cut off, and about five to ten minutes after bolusing. Anectine (Sux) has a life of about five minutes after the fasiculations stop.

They used Pavulon for the paralytic before going to the one drug/two drug methods with a sedative and opiate they use now. fourty five minute to two hour life span depending on patient.

Which, would be a bad thing if the propofol wore off, or was underdosed before cardiac arrest was induced. That would mean the person was aware of everything happening to him, including suffocating.

Hardly humane. And I wouldn't wish that on the most heinous monster.


CSB:
A friend in the ER had a drunk combative patient who needed an emergent procedure (peritoneal lavage, I think).  They gave him the succs and as he was lying there paralyzed, calmly explained to him that if he didn't behave, the next time he might not get intubated.  They tubed him, did the procedure, and 15 minutes later when the tube came out, the patient was a perfect gentleman.

Illegal, maybe.  Unethical, yes.  Funny, you're goddamned right
 
2014-01-16 05:32:34 PM  

Enigmamf: TIL our sense of human decency and rule of law goes out the window when vengeance is at stake.


Vengeance is the bedrock upon which the rule of law was built,  There is no justice without vengeance.
 
2014-01-16 05:32:46 PM  
Vengeance and justice aren't the same things.  The United States should do away with the death penalty, then we don't have to worry about idiotic crap like this.  Keep murders and rapist segregated from society so they can't murder and rape. Deprive them of various freedoms.  Stop killing them though.

There's no net benefit here that can't be achieved through more humane means.  When the government executes someone it's sanctioning and in fact performing the act of killing another living breathing thinking person.  I can't justify that because that person can be contained and doesn't have to ever pose a threat to any one else.  You're not killing that person to make the society as whole safer, so why are you killing that person?  It's vengeance and it's wrong.
 
2014-01-16 05:35:25 PM  

hardinparamedic: lennavan: I'm really comin up empty with the empathy here today.

And that's not sociopathic in the least.


Failing to empathize with a raping murder is sociopathic in your mind?  Wow.

hardinparamedic: The purpose of the death penalty is to remove someone who's actions, beyond a reasonable doubt, are so heinous that society can no longer tolerate their existence. Nothing more, nothing less.


No, the purpose is vengeance.  Life in prison would remove them from society, dropping them off on an abandoned island in the ocean would also work.  Actively killing them is about providing vengeance for the surviving victims.

hardinparamedic: If you want torture, steal obama's magic time machine and go back a few hundred years.


Or back to the Bush years for waterboarding.
 
2014-01-16 05:35:30 PM  

hardinparamedic: BigLuca: So what the Nazis did to the Jews was not murder?

[fc06.deviantart.net image 600x457].

That was stupid, and you should feel bad for posting it.


Stop posting?? Hell I just got here!

And I was just trying to make a point that murder is a legal definition, but is used in general parlance more often as a moral judgement.  It doesn't matter what the technical definition of a word if people don't use it that way.

/which begs the question...
 
2014-01-16 05:36:38 PM  

hardinparamedic: [...] The purpose of the death penalty is to remove someone who's actions, beyond a reasonable doubt, are so heinous that society can no longer tolerate their existence. Nothing more, nothing less.


Bzzzt.  Wrong.  That is one reason but it is not the only reason.  Another is to exhibit our disgust with killers.  To show that they are subhuman and that their lives mean nothing.  We pile our collective need for vengeance for all our grievances onto the killers and then execute them.  They are scapegoats in the ancient sense of the word and we are cleansed by their blood.
 
2014-01-16 05:37:11 PM  

Tricky Chicken: I favor a Hunger Games like capital punishment system.  We take a hundred or so convicts put them in a reserve wired with cameras, and the last one living gets a pardon and is released to live in Hollywood and do the talk show circuit.  The proceeds from the show could go to the families of the victims.

Or you could just jail them for life which I would think is much worse than death.


Actually, I think the 'winner' should be secretly put to death and a look-alike can do the Hollywood thing to generate the proceeds for the victims' families (and a small, secret percentage for the double).
 
2014-01-16 05:38:19 PM  

hardinparamedic: Serious Post on Serious Thread: There are way too many fark ups and injustices perpetrated by the 'justice' system. And the disparate application by race and class is a given.

Uh, the guy was white, and aside from the overwhelmingly scientifically defensible evidence of his guilt, he confessed to the crime while not under any duress. In fact, his race and class gave him a great chance of NOT getting the death penalty for his crime.

I get what you are saying, but this guy is the exception to all of your rules you just stated.


Your selective reading of my post missed the point entirely and utterly.

All practical reasons aside, execution is not a power I want vested in the state. It's the institutionalization of barbarism I object to the most. The practical stuff is just icing on the cake. Even if this was the whitest richest best defended fark ever, and even though there was even an admission, the existence of the death penalty is objectionable. And again, there is the ADDITIONAL SECONDARY issue that if the death penalty is ok in any situation, it will inevitably be used in a wrongful situation.
 
2014-01-16 05:38:47 PM  

angry bunny: There's no net benefit here that can't be achieved through more humane means. When the government executes someone it's sanctioning and in fact performing the act of killing another living breathing thinking person. I can't justify that because that person can be contained and doesn't have to ever pose a threat to any one else. You're not killing that person to make the society as whole safer, so why are you killing that person? It's vengeance and it's wrong.


Because it's vengeance and you shouldn't get to say if it is or is not wrong until you are the surviving family members of a victim.  Then, if you want to say it's wrong to kill that person, I'm all for a judge listening to your wishes.
 
2014-01-16 05:39:00 PM  

BigOle8point: To those who say its cruel and unusual  .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.


ok, tough guy, i'll bite.

why not make it even more cruel - like perhaps having him drawn and quartered or ripped apart by dogs? wouldn't that be more of a deterrent?* it would certainly satisfy the public's medieval urge for bloody vengeance.

or why not behead him in a public square? or why not cut off his dick and feed it to him, letting him choke to death on his genitals?wouldn't that be appropriate?

*the death penalty is not a deterrent
 
2014-01-16 05:41:24 PM  
Don't they have a bunch of heroin down in the police evidence room? Give him a hot shot and boom, you're done.

Or for that matter, sit him in a chair, sneak up behind him and shoot him in the head. Much more humane than a ritualistic medical procedure.
 
2014-01-16 05:42:14 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: All practical reasons aside, execution is not a power I want vested in the state. It's the institutionalization of barbarism I object to the most. The practical stuff is just icing on the cake. Even if this was the whitest richest best defended fark ever, and even though there was even an admission, the existence of the death penalty is objectionable. And again, there is the ADDITIONAL SECONDARY issue that if the death penalty is ok in any situation, it will inevitably be used in a wrongful situation.


^ This ^
 
2014-01-16 05:42:36 PM  

for good or for awesome: I heard in Russia they told you they needed to take your picture.  Put you in a little booth and tell you to look at the "camera".  Can't get much more "humane" than that.


You know what they do in Russia?

They put you in prison.  The government of Russia doesn't murder their own citizens in cold blood.  That's right, the United States is more barbaric than Russia.

It's well past time to end murder by the state forever.
 
2014-01-16 05:44:49 PM  

Solid Muldoon: Don't they have a bunch of heroin down in the police evidence room? Give him a hot shot and boom, you're done.


That's basically what they did.  Hydromorphone & heroin are both opiates -- variants on the same underlying molecule.

Hydromorphone:
upload.wikimedia.org

Heroin:
upload.wikimedia.org

Only the two substituent groups at left are different.
 
2014-01-16 05:46:09 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: for good or for awesome: I heard in Russia they told you they needed to take your picture.  Put you in a little booth and tell you to look at the "camera".  Can't get much more "humane" than that.

which if fine and dandy if you're the first guy and totally unaware but somehow if what you say is true and therefore common knowledge, I wouldn't exactly call it a comforting thought when the prison guards comes by and tell me it's picture day for me.


Who's going to make it common knowledge?

The guy who just 'had his picture taken' ain't talkin'...
 
2014-01-16 05:47:26 PM  

lennavan: angry bunny: There's no net benefit here that can't be achieved through more humane means. When the government executes someone it's sanctioning and in fact performing the act of killing another living breathing thinking person. I can't justify that because that person can be contained and doesn't have to ever pose a threat to any one else. You're not killing that person to make the society as whole safer, so why are you killing that person? It's vengeance and it's wrong.

Because it's vengeance and you shouldn't get to say if it is or is not wrong until you are the surviving family members of a victim.  Then, if you want to say it's wrong to kill that person, I'm all for a judge listening to your wishes.



Of course in all other crimes we also have the victims/families set the punishment...  Oh wait that never freaking happens!  I do get to say because whether it's wrong or not because I'm a part of that society.  When society kills someone whether I agree or not I'm in a way part of that action that gives me every right to comment.  The fact of the matter is we specifically don't have victims or their families choose the punishment because they are directly impacted by the crime.
 
2014-01-16 05:49:26 PM  

Mirandized: Joe Blowme: Dog Welder: "And more importantly, the people of the state of Ohio should be appalled at what was done here today in their names."

As a resident of Ohio, I'm more appalled at what this jerk did to warrant the death penalty.

THIS times eleventy billion

I don't understand this at all. You are not responsible for what this piece of shiat did. You are responsible for what the State does in your name. He acted as a monster so the State in our name should also act as a monster? That lowers us to his level. I want my government to be better than this piece of shiat.


Fark this shiat about 'lowering to a level' - this is about delivering that which is deserved.

The criminal made a choice to do the crime in the method used to do it. Let it be that same choice that delivers the punishment. No 'lowering' required.
 
2014-01-16 05:49:32 PM  

DarkVader: You know what they do in Russia? [blah blah blah blah]


Nations that don't execute killers show a profound lack of respect for the value of the lives of the victims... the law-abiding citizens. Failing to execute killers is uncivilized.
 
2014-01-16 05:49:33 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
Once shot a man for snoring too loud....
 
2014-01-16 05:52:27 PM  

FlashHarry: it would certainly satisfy the public's medieval urge for bloody vengeance.


You say that like there is something wrong with vengeance.  There is nothing wrong with vengeance.  It is pure and natural.  Children less than 2 years old understand vengeance.  It is more natural than talking.
 
2014-01-16 05:53:00 PM  

DarkVader: They put you in prison. The government of Russia doesn't murder their own citizens in cold blood. That's right, the United States is more barbaric than Russia.

It's well past time to end murder by the state forever.


You sound liberal.

How about you start by disarming the state first. Then, and only then, will you have a rationalization for ending "murder by the state".

If you can't end the slaughter wholesale, why worry about singular cases?
 
2014-01-16 05:54:12 PM  

FlashHarry: BigOle8point: To those who say its cruel and unusual  .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.

ok, tough guy, i'll bite.

why not make it even more cruel - like perhaps having him drawn and quartered or ripped apart by dogs? wouldn't that be more of a deterrent?* it would certainly satisfy the public's medieval urge for bloody vengeance.

or why not behead him in a public square? or why not cut off his dick and feed it to him, letting him choke to death on his genitals?wouldn't that be appropriate?


Whatever floats your boat. I'm OK with the current method, but always open for suggestions.
 
2014-01-16 05:54:27 PM  
if you want vengeance, you need to take it, don't pass off your responsibilities to some government.

state execution is not vengeance, it's murder by bureaucracy.
 
2014-01-16 05:54:46 PM  
BigOle8point: To those who say its cruel and unusual .... go eat a snickers. You act like a whiny biatch when you're hungry.
If you don't like the death penalty, too bad. If you are a man posting here and object to killing a psychopath who brutalized an 8 month pregnant woman, you are a pussy.


Is pussy the work we use for civilized now?  You are what you eat I guess.
 
2014-01-16 05:56:01 PM  
To those saying, 'good, he was an evil murderer' - the point of all this isn't really whether his suffering was 'just' but what killing him makes of us - if you are going to have a death penalty then either it should be done clinically without point, more like pest control. If we start getting lax and saying, 'well, 15 minutes of chemically induced weatherboarding to death isn't so bad' then we take a step closer to being like the pitiless a55hole who was just executed. We shouldn't be complacent and let that happen to ourselves.
 
2014-01-16 05:56:12 PM  
I have zero problem with this.

Would gladly participate in a firing squad.
 
2014-01-16 05:56:46 PM  

angry bunny: Of course in all other crimes we also have the victims/families set the punishment... Oh wait that never freaking happens!


Well if by never freaking happens you mean happens all the goddamn time, then sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_impact_statement
 
2014-01-16 05:57:58 PM  

TheWhoppah: hardinparamedic: [...] The purpose of the death penalty is to remove someone who's actions, beyond a reasonable doubt, are so heinous that society can no longer tolerate their existence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Bzzzt.  Wrong.  That is one reason but it is not the only reason.  Another is to exhibit our disgust with killers.  To show that they are subhuman and that their lives mean nothing.  We pile our collective need for vengeance for all our grievances onto the killers and then execute them.  They are scapegoats in the ancient sense of the word and we are cleansed by their blood.


I see my sociopath tag for you is well founded.

Or you fail miserably at Poe's law, and you're trying too hard.
 
2014-01-16 05:57:59 PM  

Kit Fister: The system decides the punishment. If the victim has no issues with the punishment, there is no problem. If the victim takes umbrage with the punishment, let the judge review the punishment. Otherwise, no issues, carry it out after due appeals and reviews.


That's not how it works. Aside from letting the victim plead for leniency or harshness against his victimizer - which has only so much weight as any individual judge with optional sentencing cares to personally grant it - the victim's feelings on the punishment are immaterial because that's not how justice works.

The retribution of the law is not and should not be meted out based on the personal feelings of the victim. If you want that sort of bullshiat move to a country of underdeveloped barbarians where they still do that sort of thing. There are still a few around, sadly.
 
2014-01-16 05:58:34 PM  

mungo: To those saying, 'good, he was an evil murderer' - the point of all this isn't really whether his suffering was 'just' but what killing him makes of us - if you are going to have a death penalty then either it should be done clinically without point, more like pest control. If we start getting lax and saying, 'well, 15 minutes of chemically induced weatherboarding to death isn't so bad' then we take a step closer to being like the pitiless a55hole who was just executed. We shouldn't be complacent and let that happen to ourselves.


What if this guy passed out right away, had no farking clue what was going on, it wasn't bad at all for him and it took 15 minutes to be considered clinically dead but a liberal website against the death penalty decided to pick the story up and make it sound super bad.  Would it be alright if I saw right through the BS and said I didn't care?
 
2014-01-16 05:59:42 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: All practical reasons aside, execution is not a power I want vested in the state. It's the institutionalization of barbarism I object to the most. The practical stuff is just icing on the cake. Even if this was the whitest richest best defended fark ever, and even though there was even an admission, the existence of the death penalty is objectionable. And again, there is the ADDITIONAL SECONDARY issue that if the death penalty is ok in any situation, it will inevitably be used in a wrongful situation.


No, I granted that you were entitled to your personal opinion on the matter.

I just happen not to agree or share your opinion beyond the need for serious and honest reform.
 
2014-01-16 05:59:56 PM  

theBigBigEye: Dr Jack Badofsky: TheShavingofOccam123: QFTA:

A federal judge sided with the state but acknowledged the new method was an experiment.

Please have this judge removed from the bench. This is an idiot. A cruel, nasty idiot.

I dunno.  Depends on who they were experimenting on.  Was it a worst-of-the-worst pedophile?  Par for the course.  Went on a serial-killing spree?  Welcome to the "Serial Killer Victim Experience".  Kidnapped / tortured / raped people?  My sympathy meter just broke Trying to register lower than it was able to.  Not feeling very sorry at all for people on death row, especially when the evidence is overwhelmingly proof that they indeed were heinous individuals.  Ted Bundy, for example.  Don't let his looks and charisma fool you.  That's an unrepentant, cold, sadistic, devious person.  Not fixable, and not worth the oxygen he breathed.

Please have this judge kept on his bench forever. We need people like him (along with the repeal of the Eighth Amendment).

And anyone with a criminal record should be put to death, no matter how minor it is. Any kind of blemished, imperfect record should = DIEDIEDIEDIEDIE!!!!


Hey, look at you!  You're pretty good at being a drama queen.  You go, girl!  Because what I said above clearly states "anybody committing ANY crime should die", and I can totally see how you interpreted it that way.  Wow.

You need to get out more.
 
2014-01-16 06:01:00 PM  

angry bunny: Of course in all other crimes we also have the victims/families set the punishment... Oh wait that never freaking happens! I do get to say because whether it's wrong or not because I'm a part of that society.


Okay, well you're right and society has decided capital punishment is okay.  Your concern is noted, thanks.
 
2014-01-16 06:01:01 PM  

mungo: To those saying, 'good, he was an evil murderer' - the point of all this isn't really whether his suffering was 'just' but what killing him makes of us - if you are going to have a death penalty then either it should be done clinically without point, more like pest control. If we start getting lax and saying, 'well, 15 minutes of chemically induced weatherboarding to death isn't so bad' then we take a step closer to being like the pitiless a55hole who was just executed. We shouldn't be complacent and let that happen to ourselves.


But your post IS a good idea that you don't have a clue what the hell you're talking about, and your opinion on the objection you raised is based on ignorance about the topic at hand.
 
2014-01-16 06:02:26 PM  

hardinparamedic: Serious Post on Serious Thread: All practical reasons aside, execution is not a power I want vested in the state. It's the institutionalization of barbarism I object to the most. The practical stuff is just icing on the cake. Even if this was the whitest richest best defended fark ever, and even though there was even an admission, the existence of the death penalty is objectionable. And again, there is the ADDITIONAL SECONDARY issue that if the death penalty is ok in any situation, it will inevitably be used in a wrongful situation.

No, I granted that you were entitled to your personal opinion on the matter.

I just happen not to agree or share your opinion beyond the need for serious and honest reform.


That's something I imagine we can all agree on, at least at a minimum for people who want it abolished.  This guy was guilty as fark.  But the system still needs reform.
 
2014-01-16 06:02:30 PM  

Rreal: Punishment as deterrent simply doesn't work, anybody who's been spanked for stealing a cookie from the jar knows this.      The fact that there are still thefts in saudi arabia where such will get your hand chopped off, or rapes which will get your pecker chopped off prove this.

This then, leaves but 2 reasons for the death penalty,  punishment of the guilty and the enjoyment of those watching/performing the punishment.   Consider the witch trials of the past where the gruesome "tests" where the innocent were expected to die,

This was common knowledge, as was the fact that many people were accusing someone of being a witch purely because the accusation alone meant the person would die.  Yet still the trials went on.

This not a good enough defense,  let me close with a passage from my favorite book

"Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?  Do not be so quick to pass out death in judgement, for even the very wise cannot see all ends."


This is the biggest load of crap I have ever read. To say that punishment is not a deterrent, you are an absolute moron. In most cases, it is. The only thing stopping most of us apes from doing whatever we please are the consequences that await us should we do them. Do you know how many times I had to be spanked to not talk back to my Mom? Once. My Dad made sure that I knew I had crossed a line. Did I talk back after that? Some, but quickly I was reminded of that line and quickly did I stop immediately pushing that boundary because I knew what the consequences were.

To equate with trials and pure circumstantial evidence to how the Death Penalty is currently employed is further, mind-boggling-pants-on-head retarded. You cannot walk into a court of law, accuse your nemesis of killing someone and he is immediately put to death.

Your silly quote also is a common-sense guideline. We should always not be quick to pass death out as judgement, but to say that there is no way we can be sure someone has committed a crime in order to be put to death is false. When you have mounds of forensic evidence corroborated by admission of guilt - it is pretty safe to say that person is guilty of the crime they are being accused of. In order for someone to be given the Death Penalty, I would expect a tremendous amount and quality of evidence, not some dude or DNA test telling me someone is guilty.
 
2014-01-16 06:04:00 PM  

WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?


So great, everything worked out: the guy is dead, and the state of Ohio and all of their residents have lowered themselves to his level.  Congratulations to all.
 
2014-01-16 06:05:00 PM  

theBigBigEye: Dr Jack Badofsky: TheShavingofOccam123: QFTA:

A federal judge sided with the state but acknowledged the new method was an experiment.

Please have this judge removed from the bench. This is an idiot. A cruel, nasty idiot.

I dunno.  Depends on who they were experimenting on.  Was it a worst-of-the-worst pedophile?  Par for the course.  Went on a serial-killing spree?  Welcome to the "Serial Killer Victim Experience".  Kidnapped / tortured / raped people?  My sympathy meter just broke Trying to register lower than it was able to.  Not feeling very sorry at all for people on death row, especially when the evidence is overwhelmingly proof that they indeed were heinous individuals.  Ted Bundy, for example.  Don't let his looks and charisma fool you.  That's an unrepentant, cold, sadistic, devious person.  Not fixable, and not worth the oxygen he breathed.

Please have this judge kept on his bench forever. We need people like him (along with the repeal of the Eighth Amendment).

And anyone with a criminal record should be put to death, no matter how minor it is. Any kind of blemished, imperfect record should = DIEDIEDIEDIEDIE!!!!


Oh, and your comment about the 8th amendment was just, really ridiculous.  You do know that, right?  Well, you do now.
 
2014-01-16 06:05:43 PM  

udhq: So great, everything worked out: the guy is dead, and the state of Ohio and all of their residents have lowered themselves to his level.  Congratulations to all.


He was pregnant, and the state stabbed him methodically and repeatedly until he died of profound hemorrhagic shock, and all the pain and horror that it induces?

That's abhorrent!

Think about this man next time you take your beloved family pet to the vet to be put down. You MURDERING MURDERER!
 
2014-01-16 06:05:50 PM  

The Fett: Yellow Beard: I find it fascinating that the people who are staunch anti-death penalty types are by and large huge supporters of abortion. I wonder what those future generations will think of that.

I find it fascinating that the people who support the death penalty by and large are anti-abortion with the justification that, "all life is sacred"


I'm not totally anti-abortion. Abortion as a matter of convenience is the part I find disgusting. To save the mother's life, sure. Rape victim, sure. You bang everybody in sight and realize you aren't quite ready for motherhood at 6 months? Nope

Rape and kill a woman that is 8 months preggers, actually anally rape her because her belly with the baby in it got in the way, then stab her. You deserve the worst possible death that can be implemented on your rabid animal arse
 
2014-01-16 06:06:20 PM  

DarkVader: You know what they do in Russia?


Putin personally hunts you for sport while riding on shark-back?
 
2014-01-16 06:07:52 PM  
What a shame. He only raped a woman who was 8 months pregnant and then killed her. If he suffers for 15 minutes, I'm supposed to break out a violin? I think not.
 
2014-01-16 06:08:04 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Yellow Beard: dameron: I find it fascinating that the people who think the government has too much power and is incompetent are by and large huge supporters of the death penalty.

One day the U.S. will get over this bloodthirsty urge and join the rest of the civilized world.  Hopefully this thread will be archived somewhere so the grandchildren of certain posters in this thread can see what kind of savages they were when they were young and stupid.

I find it fascinating that the people who are staunch anti-death penalty types are by and large huge supporters of abortion. I wonder what those future generations will think of that.

They will probably think that enlightened people thought women were more than factories or property to be controlled by the state. And that women should decide when and if they are to give birth and not some body of legislators or a handful of old men who have never been pregnant.


so killing innocent babies=good. Killing a guy that anally raped and then killed a woman that was 8 months preggers=bad. got it
 
2014-01-16 06:08:04 PM  

optimus_grime: if you want vengeance, you need to take it, don't pass off your responsibilities to some government.


Citizens cede the natural human right to seek vengeance to the government.  Amateur mob justice is prone to error and is not evenly applied.  Government offers professional-grade justice administered by that were not themselves victims in the case.  Justice is a key part of the Social Contract.  Try reading some Hobbes, Locke or Rousseau.  Good stuff!
 
2014-01-16 06:09:01 PM  

jshine: DarkVader: You know what they do in Russia?

Putin personally hunts you for sport while riding on shark-back?


I seriously hope the SyFy channel writers are reading this right now. Communists + Sharks. That could be a whole new genre.
 
2014-01-16 06:13:41 PM  

hardinparamedic: TheWhoppah: hardinparamedic: [...] The purpose of the death penalty is to remove someone who's actions, beyond a reasonable doubt, are so heinous that society can no longer tolerate their existence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Bzzzt.  Wrong.  That is one reason but it is not the only reason.  Another is to exhibit our disgust with killers.  To show that they are subhuman and that their lives mean nothing.  We pile our collective need for vengeance for all our grievances onto the killers and then execute them.  They are scapegoats in the ancient sense of the word and we are cleansed by their blood.

I see my sociopath tag for you is well founded


You are defending a killer and narrowly defining everyone else's right to justice and yet I am the sociopath.  Do you enjoy calling other people names?  Neener neener neener?  Am I doing it right?
 
2014-01-16 06:16:26 PM  

hardinparamedic: udhq: So great, everything worked out: the guy is dead, and the state of Ohio and all of their residents have lowered themselves to his level.  Congratulations to all.

He was pregnant, and the state stabbed him methodically and repeatedly until he died of profound hemorrhagic shock, and all the pain and horror that it induces?

That's abhorrent!

Think about this man next time you take your beloved family pet to the vet to be put down. You MURDERING MURDERER!


Putting a pet down?  Hell, next time he steps on an insect.  (yes I know that's silly, but how different is it really?)
 
2014-01-16 06:16:29 PM  

hardinparamedic: udhq: So great, everything worked out: the guy is dead, and the state of Ohio and all of their residents have lowered themselves to his level.  Congratulations to all.

He was pregnant, and the state stabbed him methodically and repeatedly until he died of profound hemorrhagic shock, and all the pain and horror that it induces?

That's abhorrent!

Think about this man next time you take your beloved family pet to the vet to be put down. You MURDERING MURDERER!


You're right, criminals should be tortured according to the severity of the crime they committed, because, hey man, it's the 1500s and we're still a nation of morally underdeveloped animals!

And PS, if a vet tortured a dog for 15 minutes before putting him under, that vet would go to prison.
 
2014-01-16 06:17:38 PM  

TheWhoppah: You are defending a killer and narrowly defining everyone else's right to justice and yet I am the sociopath. Do you enjoy calling other people names? Neener neener neener? Am I doing it right?


You're both defending killers.
 
2014-01-16 06:25:34 PM  
lest you all think that capital punishment is not a deterrent, let me assure you that if there were no laws or punishments in place, I know that I personally would be in someones house tonight taking the stuff I wanted. I have no moral compunction to stop myself, and it is only the fear of being captured and punished that stops me from pulling you out of your car and taking it for a joyride. Maybe you pride yourself on your self control, but I know what I am. I am the guy that would take advantage of society if not stopped. So...before you say it doesn't prevent horrible crimes, know that I, and thousands of others, are not taking actions just because we don't want to be in prison or executed.
 
2014-01-16 06:26:06 PM  

TheWhoppah: You are defending a killer and narrowly defining everyone else's right to justice and yet I am the sociopath.  Do you enjoy calling other people names?  Neener neener neener?  Am I doing it right?

No, actually, I'm going to go with you're just trolling the thread considering how over the top you are. Or mentally ill. It's either ONE or the other.

udhq: You're right, criminals should be tortured according to the severity of the crime they committed, because, hey man, it's the 1500s and we're still a nation of morally underdeveloped animals!


Being under tripping-balls levels of versed and hydromorphone is not torture. Agonal, biological chemoreceptor-driven reflexes not under conscious control are not torture. Ironically, this is the same cocktail that is used for assisted suicide in countries which it is legal in. Are they being tortured?

udhq: And PS, if a vet tortured a dog for 15 minutes before putting him under, that vet would go to prison.


Which is interesting, because a dog put down with the same type of medication will elicit the same type of reaction.

udhq: You're both defending killers.


And you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
2014-01-16 06:27:04 PM  
To those citing that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, knock it off. Your life without parole isn't morally superior. Either way you look at it, you are condemning someone to death and neither are natural deaths.
 
2014-01-16 06:27:24 PM  
Reading the meds used to put this guy down, I'm...not impressed.  This wasn't cruel or unusual.  I've had both hydromorphone and midazolam before.

Dude got put down with, to simplify it severely, valium and super strong morphine.  He didn't feel a thing, and had the best buzz of his life till he passed out.
 
2014-01-16 06:27:52 PM  

lennavan: angry bunny: Of course in all other crimes we also have the victims/families set the punishment... Oh wait that never freaking happens!

Well if by never freaking happens you mean happens all the goddamn time, then sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_impact_statement



They don't pick the punishment.  they don't set the mandatory minimum for a crime.  they make a statement in court about how this effected them and why the JUDGE should or should not impose a particular sentence.  So I mean yeah that does obviously mean they set the punishment.  What happens in reality is they get to vent to feel better than the judge uses the law and mitigating and aggravating factors to set a sentence in line with what they believe is reasonable
 
2014-01-16 06:30:05 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Your life without parole isn't morally superior.


People get the moral superiority of not directly causing someone to die, rather just letting them rot in a eight by eleven cell with only one hour a day for exercise for the rest of their natural lives.

Which, mind you, IS NOT TORTURE! Don't you dare suggest it is, you murdering murderer!
 
2014-01-16 06:30:56 PM  
Don't feel like weighing in on the moral and ethical aspects of execution today but as far as methods go I think they should start using Nitrogen or Helium gas asphyxiation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation
 
2014-01-16 06:36:26 PM  

Dirtybird971: I think a bullet behind the ear should the SOP. Cheap, easy, and plenty of people in prisons who would do it for an extra tray at dinner.

If there is any travesty here it's the forgotten pain, anguish, and fear a woman felt as she was raped, beaten, and murdered. While pregnant with child. FFFFFF*ck this animal. SHE is the victim, not him.


I oppose the death penalty on all levels, but this, I think, is my strongest reason. HE should not be the center of attention. HE should not be a martyr. HE should not be pitied. HE should not have anyone fighting to save his life. HE should not be a celebrity. He should be locked up and forgotten. Done. Let's spend our effort remembering her life. Comforting her family. Doing good works in her name.

I f*cking HATE HATE HATE how the death row inmates become the story, not the victims. F*ck them. Forget them.
 
2014-01-16 06:36:37 PM  

hardinparamedic: the money is in the banana stand: Your life without parole isn't morally superior.

People get the moral superiority of not directly causing someone to die, rather just letting them rot in a eight by eleven cell with only one hour a day for exercise for the rest of their natural lives.

Which, mind you, IS NOT TORTURE! Don't you dare suggest it is, you murdering murderer!



Is it your thought that the only available options are cramming people into a cell for the rest of their life or killing them?  Because, yeah you know, if you only posit two choices that are equally crappy and then say, see you can't make a moral selection between the two so the death penalty is valid, that's a pretty crappy rhetorical technique.  In summary your argument is bad and you should feel bad.
 
2014-01-16 06:36:54 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: To those citing that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, knock it off. Your life without parole isn't morally superior. Either way you look at it, you are condemning someone to death and neither are natural deaths.


The advantage of LWOP is that when the offender dies, he is not made into a martyr courtesy of the State of Ohio and the Huffington Post.  Nor is his crime publicized.
 
2014-01-16 06:37:29 PM  
www.catholic-convert.com
 
2014-01-16 06:39:52 PM  

angry bunny: Is it your thought that the only available options are cramming people into a cell for the rest of their life or killing them?  Because, yeah you know, if you only posit two choices that are equally crappy and then say, see you can't make a moral selection between the two so the death penalty is valid, that's a pretty crappy rhetorical technique.  In summary your argument is bad and you should feel bad.


Not at all. I'm lampshading and openly mocking your idea that there should be black and white tolerance for the most heinous, unreasonable, and un-rehabilitatable individuals who comment monstrous acts of inhumanity against their fellow person, and that throwing them in a prison for X-number of years serves society justice, instead of just serving to alleviate your personal issues with the grey and grey morality of the matter.

I can make a moral selection for the death penalty for some people, because as a society we shouldn't have to justify or tolerate their continued existence for their crimes, which had no mitigating factors or circumstances worth a less severe sentence.
 
2014-01-16 06:40:37 PM  

tirob: the money is in the banana stand: To those citing that the death penalty is barbaric and uncivilized, knock it off. Your life without parole isn't morally superior. Either way you look at it, you are condemning someone to death and neither are natural deaths.

The advantage of LWOP is that when the offender dies, he is not made into a martyr courtesy of the State of Ohio and the Huffington Post.  Nor is his crime publicized.


That is an interesting comment. I don't disagree with LWOP in lieu of the Death Penalty, however, I would assume that the Death Penalty would give the surviving family members or victims closure. Thankfully, I haven't been given the opportunity to know if this is true or not, but I would imagine it to be. Granted, this isn't the strongest argument for the Death Penalty.
 
2014-01-16 06:40:45 PM  

hardinparamedic: TheWhoppah: You are defending a killer and narrowly defining everyone else's right to justice and yet I am the sociopath.  Do you enjoy calling other people names?  Neener neener neener?  Am I doing it right?

No, actually, I'm going to go with you're just trolling the thread considering how over the top you are. Or mentally ill. It's either ONE or the other.

udhq: You're right, criminals should be tortured according to the severity of the crime they committed, because, hey man, it's the 1500s and we're still a nation of morally underdeveloped animals!

Being under tripping-balls levels of versed and hydromorphone is not torture. Agonal, biological chemoreceptor-driven reflexes not under conscious control are not torture. Ironically, this is the same cocktail that is used for assisted suicide in countries which it is legal in. Are they being tortured?

udhq: And PS, if a vet tortured a dog for 15 minutes before putting him under, that vet would go to prison.

Which is interesting, because a dog put down with the same type of medication will elicit the same type of reaction.

udhq: You're both defending killers.

And you have no idea what you're talking about.


Know how I know you didn't read the article?

I'll give you a hint:  The judge himself acknowledged that the execution was to be a deadly medical experiment on an non-consenting human subject.  Germans were executed for far less.

Read up on Unit 731 before you continue running your mouth off that the state should be allowed to run deadly medical experiments without consent on the "right" kind of person.
 
2014-01-16 06:41:03 PM  

udhq: WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?

So great, everything worked out: the guy is dead, and the state of Ohio and all of their residents have lowered themselves to his level.  Congratulations to all.


No.  He killed someone worthy of life.  The state of Ohio killed someone not worthy of life.
 
2014-01-16 06:43:45 PM  

udhq: Know how I know you didn't read the article?

I'll give you a hint:  The judge himself acknowledged that the execution was to be a deadly medical experiment on an non-consenting human subject.  Germans were executed for far less.

Read up on Unit 731 before you continue running your mouth off that the state should be allowed to run deadly medical experiments without consent on the "right" kind of person.


Yeah, I know all about Unit 731.

Killing someone with Versed and Dilaudid is not a "medical experiment". It's something that causes nurses, Paramedics, and doctors to lose their licenses every year for when they kill their patients through incompetence. It's also not torture, or inhumane.

You have an argument on moral grounds against the death penalty, and I would even grant that to you. If you stuck to that, rather than going into full potato crap about "medical experiments" and "torture", you might get some serious conversation rather than people pointing out how stupid you sound.
 
2014-01-16 06:45:07 PM  
Can't get any cheaper than a good old fashioned stoning. We should consider it.
 
2014-01-16 06:49:50 PM  

kling_klang_bed: Can't get any cheaper than a good old fashioned stoning. We should consider it.


You could always go with the Idi Amin method. Fifteen men in a pit. Throw in one hatchet. Last man alive goes home. That's one way to slake a thirst for killing.
 
2014-01-16 06:50:26 PM  

Banned on the Run: udhq: WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?

So great, everything worked out: the guy is dead, and the state of Ohio and all of their residents have lowered themselves to his level.  Congratulations to all.

No.  He killed someone worthy of life.  The state of Ohio killed someone not worthy of life.


And you're not at all worried that people like yourself feel entitled to decide who is and who isn't worthy of life?

I'm sure he made a very similar calculation towards his victim.
 
2014-01-16 06:50:38 PM  
hardinparamedic:
Not at all. I'm lampshading and openly mocking your idea that there should be black and white tolerance for the most heinous, unreasonable, and un-rehabilitatable individuals who comment monstrous acts of inhumanity against their fellow person, and that throwing them in a prison for X-number of years serves society justice, instead of just serving to alleviate your personal issues with the grey and grey morality of the matter.

I can make a moral selection for the death penalty for some people, because as a society we shouldn't have to justify or tolerate their continued existence for their crimes, which had no mitigating factors or circumstances worth a less severe sentence.


How is not killing someone for their act tolerance of their act?  How is segregating that person from society with no possibility of reentering society not achieving your goal?  In short what makes killing them preferable?  My answer to the question simply is it isn't.  Whaddya got?
 
2014-01-16 06:52:36 PM  

angry bunny: hardinparamedic: the money is in the banana stand: Your life without parole isn't morally superior.

People get the moral superiority of not directly causing someone to die, rather just letting them rot in a eight by eleven cell with only one hour a day for exercise for the rest of their natural lives.

Which, mind you, IS NOT TORTURE! Don't you dare suggest it is, you murdering murderer!


Is it your thought that the only available options are cramming people into a cell for the rest of their life or killing them?  Because, yeah you know, if you only posit two choices that are equally crappy and then say, see you can't make a moral selection between the two so the death penalty is valid, that's a pretty crappy rhetorical technique.  In summary your argument is bad and you should feel bad.


It isn't making an argument that the death penalty is valid, it is making an argument that LWOP is not morally superior. LWOP may be superior from an accuracy stand-point and due to it being an impermanent form of punishment, those sentence to LWOP could be absolved of a crime should new information or evidence be brought to light that they are innocent of the crimes accused and convicted of. How many people were given LWOP sentences, only to die in prison and later, either posthumously, or otherwise, be shown to be innocent?
 
2014-01-16 06:55:29 PM  
Raped and murdered and  8month pregnant woman.

Convicted,
DNA confirmation later,
Admitted the crime

This is the type of iron clad case the death penalty should be used for and swiftly.

Not a fan of intentionally causing harm but I could give a fark less if this person had to experience a bit of the horrifying experience of dying before he went.
 
2014-01-16 06:56:59 PM  

hardinparamedic: You have an argument on moral grounds against the death penalty, and I would even grant that to you. If you stuck to that, rather than going into full potato crap about "medical experiments" and "torture", you might get some serious conversation rather than people pointing out how stupid you sound.


Once again, you're clearly running your mouth off without having read the article, where the judge himself admitted that this was a non-consenting medical experiment on a human subject.

You don't know the level of suffering he went through.  And even if he was minimally conscious of it, HIS EXECUTION TOOK 15 FARKING MINUTES.  That's a major human rights abuse in and of itself, and I can't help but get chills at people like you who are ok with abuses of human rights, as long as they are done to what you judge to be the right subset of people.
 
2014-01-16 06:59:14 PM  

angry bunny: hardinparamedic:
Not at all. I'm lampshading and openly mocking your idea that there should be black and white tolerance for the most heinous, unreasonable, and un-rehabilitatable individuals who comment monstrous acts of inhumanity against their fellow person, and that throwing them in a prison for X-number of years serves society justice, instead of just serving to alleviate your personal issues with the grey and grey morality of the matter.

I can make a moral selection for the death penalty for some people, because as a society we shouldn't have to justify or tolerate their continued existence for their crimes, which had no mitigating factors or circumstances worth a less severe sentence.

How is not killing someone for their act tolerance of their act?  How is segregating that person from society with no possibility of reentering society not achieving your goal?  In short what makes killing them preferable?  My answer to the question simply is it isn't.  Whaddya got?


What makes segregating that person from society morally superior? How would you propose the person segregated be treated?
 
2014-01-16 07:01:12 PM  

IRQ12: Not a fan of intentionally causing harm but I could give a fark less if this person had to experience a bit of the horrifying experience of dying before he went.


Then why not use the iron maiden, the bronze bull, or the pear of anguish?  He's a murderer, who cares how grizzly his death is?

At some point, it's not all about him, but about what kind of society and what kind of people we want to be.
 
2014-01-16 07:03:51 PM  

udhq: Banned on the Run: udhq: WTFDYW: Gee. I wonder how long the pregnant woman had to suffer at his hands before she punched the clock? I guess that doesn't matter to the FARK.com brigade huh?

So great, everything worked out: the guy is dead, and the state of Ohio and all of their residents have lowered themselves to his level.  Congratulations to all.

No.  He killed someone worthy of life.  The state of Ohio killed someone not worthy of life.

And you're not at all worried that people like yourself feel entitled to decide who is and who isn't worthy of life?

I'm sure he made a very similar calculation towards his victim.


Did you read the facts of the case?  If you think there is no difference between the value of his life and his victim's, then I can't help you.
If you lack the ability to make a moral judgment or to tell the difference between right and wrong, I'd like to know what city you're in so I can stay away.  You are as sociopathic as the murderer.
 
2014-01-16 07:05:27 PM