Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(io9)   Let's both put on our robes and wizard hats   (io9.com) divider line 98
    More: Obvious, Magic Hat, PvP  
•       •       •

6152 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jan 2014 at 3:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



98 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2014-01-16 02:40:45 PM  
www.midlifegamer.net
*you know what it means*
 
2014-01-16 04:05:08 PM  
I played D&D years ago, early 90s, and I loved it. My wife asked me about it years ago, because she really didn't understand how it worked and what the big deal was all about. After I explained it to her, she looked at me with a really confused look for a second and asked "Then why do people make so much fun of people who play? It seems to me like the level of imagination and concentration is more than you need for any video game. I'm actually impressed.". I knew I married her for a reason.

I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules... I'm glad to see that the game is still going strong.
 
2014-01-16 04:08:23 PM  
2nd edition was the last edition made. I dont need to play pen and paper world of warcraft
 
2014-01-16 04:09:09 PM  
4E sucks.
Stick with 3.5, or head right to Pathfinder.
 
2014-01-16 04:10:28 PM  
3.5/Pathfinder.  Better rules mechanism, no more make-it-up-on-the-fly rolls, and much better standard of writing for published adventures.
 
2014-01-16 04:10:37 PM  
I've played D&D since my older brothers taught me how in 1982. 4e is, far and away, my favorite edition.
 
2014-01-16 04:10:59 PM  
Really liking Pathfinder.  Bought a transhuman SF one, Eclipse Phase, that looks like fun.  I really wanted a SF one, but definitely didn't want to go Star Wars or Shadowrun.  Eventually bought the Shadowrun book too, just for shiats and giggles.
 
2014-01-16 04:11:20 PM  

give me doughnuts: 4E sucks.
Stick with 3.5, or head right to Pathfinder.


DnD Next might be good. Might.
 
2014-01-16 04:16:17 PM  

Lonestar: give me doughnuts: 4E sucks.
Stick with 3.5, or head right to Pathfinder.

DnD Next might be good. Might.



It might be, but Pathfinder still is, so Paizo will continue getting my money.
 
2014-01-16 04:19:37 PM  

Mikey1969: I played D&D years ago, early 90s, and I loved it. My wife asked me about it years ago, because she really didn't understand how it worked and what the big deal was all about. After I explained it to her, she looked at me with a really confused look for a second and asked "Then why do people make so much fun of people who play? It seems to me like the level of imagination and concentration is more than you need for any video game. I'm actually impressed.". I knew I married her for a reason.

I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules... I'm glad to see that the game is still going strong.


As someone who is running a pathfinder game this weekend, I can give you the obvious answer as to why people make fun of "them".  It's any of the people who turn the game into an elaborate fantasy and start treating it as "serious shiat" or what have you.    Coincidentally, you can make fun of anyone for how they have fun.  There is literally not hobby that isn't at least a little absurd.
 
2014-01-16 04:22:19 PM  
I've only played D&D once and it was really fun.  But then my job went out of business and we all went our separate ways.
 
2014-01-16 04:23:29 PM  

Boojum2k: Lonestar: give me doughnuts: 4E sucks.
Stick with 3.5, or head right to Pathfinder.

DnD Next might be good. Might.


It might be, but Pathfinder still is, so Paizo will continue getting my money.


Paizo turned one of the greatest coups in board games' industry history.  Wizards got them to make a bunch(expensive when you're paying people to make it) of 3.5 content right before they dumped 4.0.  Paizo was slated to go out of business on their "pathfinder campaign setting," but they capitalized on nerd-rage and resold pathfinder as an actual improvement on 3.5, leaving wizards of the coast in the dust.

I still buy wizard products sometimes, like maps or minis, but their system bites, so paizo wins.
 
2014-01-16 04:25:14 PM  

ikanreed: Mikey1969: I played D&D years ago, early 90s, and I loved it. My wife asked me about it years ago, because she really didn't understand how it worked and what the big deal was all about. After I explained it to her, she looked at me with a really confused look for a second and asked "Then why do people make so much fun of people who play? It seems to me like the level of imagination and concentration is more than you need for any video game. I'm actually impressed.". I knew I married her for a reason.

I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules... I'm glad to see that the game is still going strong.

As someone who is running a pathfinder game this weekend, I can give you the obvious answer as to why people make fun of "them".  It's any of the people who turn the game into an elaborate fantasy and start treating it as "serious shiat" or what have you.    Coincidentally, you can make fun of anyone for how they have fun.  There is literally not hobby that isn't at least a little absurd.


The gaming hobbies suffer from the same thing all the other hobbies (sci-fi, comics, etc.) do; they attract a lot of people who don't know how to socialize.  Consequently, it feels like you encounter a greater proportion of them than you do in the rest of your life.  I know that neither RPGs nor historical wargaming are exclusively populated by anti-social douchebags who take this shiat way too seriously, but damn if I don't run into a lot of them at every con.
 
2014-01-16 04:26:33 PM  
D&D sucks! World of Darkness is the best ever!

/pops some popcorn
 
2014-01-16 04:27:47 PM  

ikanreed: As someone who is running a pathfinder game this weekend, I can give you the obvious answer as to why people make fun of "them".  It's any of the people who turn the game into an elaborate fantasy and start treating it as "serious shiat" or what have you


OK, that I'll grant you... Part of the reason that my group I played with was so good is that when it wasn't Thursday between 7-10 pm, the only talk about D&D was if someone couldn't make it or someone new wanted to join. Hell, I even waited to show off my 100-sided die when I bought it, even though I worked with my entire group, and we saw each other almost daily.

There is literally not hobby that isn't at least a little absurd.

Not sure what's absurd about people who do frame up restorations on classic cars, brew their own beer, or make their own furniture and other fine woodcraft, but I see where a lot of hobbies leave some room open for some joking.
 
2014-01-16 04:31:12 PM  

Lonestar: give me doughnuts: 4E sucks.
Stick with 3.5, or head right to Pathfinder.

DnD Next might be good. Might.


I've been playing with the "beta" version of D&D Next for a good while now, and we've been enjoying it. The group is fighter (me), monk, wizard, and cleric, and it's been a combination of funny-as-hell fumbles (accidentally backhanded the village priest, hit the monk in the chest with a torch while trying to light the oil behind him, etc) and amazing feats (spring attack + cleave to leap into the air and take out multiple stirges, melee with 3 dire bears ending in a double beheading) for me at least. It's MUCH less codified and limiting than 4e, as long as your GM has some imagination.

And this bit FTFA: "A striker like a barbarian is going to obliterate a controller like a wizard."

What kind of crack are they smoking? Maybe if the wizard is an idiot, or if they start the fight already toe-to-toe. Any caster going into pvp will prep the spells they need to keep other players away.
 
2014-01-16 04:32:31 PM  

ikanreed: Paizo was slated to go out of business on their "pathfinder campaign setting," but they capitalized on nerd-rage and resold pathfinder as an actual improvement on 3.5, leaving wizards of the coast in the dust.



By far. I had the various 3.5 Monster Manuals, and the lamest monster in any Pathfinder Bestiary beats the hell out of the best in the MMs. The setting is amazing for being both incredibly broad, and yet all the mythological settings and eras fit together and don't feel like the mishmash they basically are. There's more creativity in one softcover sourcebook than WOTC showed the entire run of 3.X-4th.

I'm trying to figure out how to drop King Mogaru on my players at the end of ROTR, just as a huge finale. Might be easier to just go with Cthulu though.

/I really want to inflict a kaiju on them though
//Next campaign will be my own creation, using some ideas from Second Darkness
///Pathfinder Drow are evil. Drizzt on Golarian would have been executed when he was 12, and died finally when he reached maturity.
 
2014-01-16 04:33:17 PM  

Mikey1969: I played D&D years ago, early 90s, and I loved it. My wife asked me about it years ago, because she really didn't understand how it worked and what the big deal was all about. After I explained it to her, she looked at me with a really confused look for a second and asked "Then why do people make so much fun of people who play? It seems to me like the level of imagination and concentration is more than you need for any video game. I'm actually impressed.". I knew I married her for a reason.

I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules... I'm glad to see that the game is still going strong.


Whatever, nerd.

/the only reason I'm not bigger into D&D or tabletop gaming is I didn't think I could talk my friends into going down that path with me during our formative years
 
2014-01-16 04:33:22 PM  

Jgok: And this bit FTFA: "A striker like a barbarian is going to obliterate a controller like a wizard."

What kind of crack are they smoking? Maybe if the wizard is an idiot, or if they start the fight already toe-to-toe. Any caster going into pvp will prep the spells they need to keep other players away.


How much have you used 4th edition?
 
2014-01-16 04:34:19 PM  

ikanreed: Boojum2k: Lonestar: give me doughnuts: 4E sucks.
Stick with 3.5, or head right to Pathfinder.

DnD Next might be good. Might.


It might be, but Pathfinder still is, so Paizo will continue getting my money.

Paizo turned one of the greatest coups in board games' industry history.  Wizards got them to make a bunch(expensive when you're paying people to make it) of 3.5 content right before they dumped 4.0.  Paizo was slated to go out of business on their "pathfinder campaign setting," but they capitalized on nerd-rage and resold pathfinder as an actual improvement on 3.5, leaving wizards of the coast in the dust.

I still buy wizard products sometimes, like maps or minis, but their system bites, so paizo wins.


We're actually doing a Pathfinder game after this campaign ends, and it will be my first foray into the system. I'm looking forward to it. After that, we'll probably be doing a fantasy adaptation of Numenera.

Variety is the spice of gaming.
 
2014-01-16 04:34:20 PM  
I have tons of Pathfinder materials (books, maps, etc..) but no one to play with :(
 
2014-01-16 04:35:25 PM  

danknerd: I have tons of Pathfinder materials (books, maps, etc..) but no one to play with :(


Shoot me an email.  One of my weekly games is over skype, and we can always use another person.
 
2014-01-16 04:42:33 PM  
imgs.xkcd.com
 
2014-01-16 04:42:34 PM  

danknerd: I have tons of Pathfinder materials (books, maps, etc..) but no one to play with :(


Dude, 

Virtual Desktop.
 
2014-01-16 04:43:17 PM  

Crudbucket: Mikey1969: I played D&D years ago, early 90s, and I loved it. My wife asked me about it years ago, because she really didn't understand how it worked and what the big deal was all about. After I explained it to her, she looked at me with a really confused look for a second and asked "Then why do people make so much fun of people who play? It seems to me like the level of imagination and concentration is more than you need for any video game. I'm actually impressed.". I knew I married her for a reason.

I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules... I'm glad to see that the game is still going strong.

Whatever, nerd.

/the only reason I'm not bigger into D&D or tabletop gaming is I didn't think I could talk my friends into going down that path with me during our formative years


I was 20-21, when we started... Like I said, I'll never really put together another good group like that, but it was fun, and it's a reason that I let the ComicCon kids and other Con folks have their fun.
 
2014-01-16 04:51:47 PM  
I'm currently running a Pathfinder game in the Eberron setting, and it's working really well. I rather like the way Eberron works.. I feel they got dragons 'right', and it's fun having the PC's caught in the middle of the fifteen-friggen xanatos gambits that seem to be playing out in the setting.

My only concern is that, as I'm fairly new to DMing, I may be doing too much on the fly. I'm still having *some* difficulty figuring out how challenging certain things should be with regard to skill DC's, especially things like Knowledge Nature (... And what Wizards put out for Bear Lore in 4.0 doesn't help.)
 
2014-01-16 04:52:42 PM  
As far as I can tell the goal for 4th edition was to have something that was rule-based and easy to adjudicate.  You can tell the designers spent the last 10 years answering bizarre questions about how two Magic cards interacted.  So they did everything with keywords and fixed rules so there would be no problems with interpretation.
 
2014-01-16 04:56:30 PM  
Has anyone mentioned that Pathfinder is the best version of D&D that's been created?  Oh, they have?  Well, then.  Carry on!
 
2014-01-16 05:04:32 PM  

Mikey1969: Not sure what's absurd about people who do frame up restorations on classic cars


I know of two kinds of car restorer.  One mellow, the other absurd.  I have been involved with a few restos and they all entailed pull everything apart cleaning and putting back together, you try to make everything clean and work correctly, all fun..... now a buddy of  mine is doing a 73 Road Runner and he will go on and on and on about getting the correct grease pen for the assembly marks because this car was made on a tuesday and all tuesday marks on this side of the firewall are orange and the other side is burnt umber and how this car is one in 200 that had this compilation of option, it is rarer than rare.  Nice guy but never ask about this project car.
 
2014-01-16 05:05:14 PM  

gnosis301: Really liking Pathfinder.  Bought a transhuman SF one, Eclipse Phase, that looks like fun.  I really wanted a SF one, but definitely didn't want to go Star Wars or Shadowrun.  Eventually bought the Shadowrun book too, just for shiats and giggles.


I love eclipse phase....and pathfinder too, but...yeah. Eclipse phase rocks.
 
2014-01-16 05:06:12 PM  
So basically, WotC turned a role-playing game into a table-top wargame, abandoning all that made it creative, fun and quirky for a rigid rule set and extreme specificity?

They've come full circle, my friends.
 
2014-01-16 05:10:37 PM  

fastbow: So basically, WotC turned a role-playing game into a table-top wargame, abandoning all that made it creative, fun and quirky for a rigid rule set and extreme specificity?

They've come full circle, my friends.


Essentially correct. D&d 4th edition is effefectively the table top paper version of world of Warcraft.
 
2014-01-16 05:11:25 PM  
<HowAboutNo.jpg>

meanmutton: Has anyone mentioned that Pathfinder is the best version of D&D that's been created?  Oh, they have?  Well, then.  Carry on!


Amen, Brother!

Anyone else see the Penny Arcade where Gabe's gaming group is so spoiled by 4E giving them everything they ever wanted all the time that Tycho suggests Pathfinder and then abuses them with it?  I can't seem to find it in the archives.  Pathfinder is like guilt-free sex wrapped in bacon, dipped in candy and served free on a bed of large-denomination cash with a side of pure love and respect!  What kind of  dark andterribleChristmas must 4E be that Pathfinder is some kind of twisted  punishment by comparison?
 
2014-01-16 05:12:45 PM  

fastbow: So basically, WotC turned a role-playing game into a table-top wargame, abandoning all that made it creative, fun and quirky for a rigid rule set and extreme specificity?

They've come full circle, my friends.


There isn't even a set of wonderous items in the Dungeon Master's Guide, as I recall. Those things were some of my favorite toys in 3.5 and Pathfinder. The bullshiat you could pull with them..

(Let's fill the bag of holding IV with water, then turn it inside out! Suddenly, 250 CUBIC FEET OF WATER)
 
2014-01-16 05:14:18 PM  

Saiga410: Mikey1969: Not sure what's absurd about people who do frame up restorations on classic cars

I know of two kinds of car restorer.  One mellow, the other absurd.  I have been involved with a few restos and they all entailed pull everything apart cleaning and putting back together, you try to make everything clean and work correctly, all fun..... now a buddy of  mine is doing a 73 Road Runner and he will go on and on and on about getting the correct grease pen for the assembly marks because this car was made on a tuesday and all tuesday marks on this side of the firewall are orange and the other side is burnt umber and how this car is one in 200 that had this compilation of option, it is rarer than rare.  Nice guy but never ask about this project car.


LOL, I could see that becoming an obsession... I'm not always great at follow through, so I wouldn't do something like a car restoration, but if I did it AND happened to have a car that I could get as possibly close to original as possible, I would probably be like this. One way to deal with Obsessive potential is not to put myself into situations where it could be a factor.
 
2014-01-16 05:17:22 PM  

Mikey1969:  "Then why do people make so much fun of people who play? It seems to me like the level of imagination and concentration is more than you need for any video game. I'm actually impressed.".


We're talking about 4th edition here, though.  The one where all of the roleplay elements were all stripped out and combat was turned into a CCG / board game, and even  that was stripped down to a handful of predictable variations.

... which, to be fair, is what first edition was, too, because first edition was basically taking a standard war-game / strategy game and running a "hero map" where each player controlled only one unit with a slightly higher level of complexity.  The role-play stuff was just players messing around, it wasn't codified into the game in any real formal way until 2nd edition (aka "Advanced" D&D, the first really popular edition).

But as implied above, AD&D was way the hell more popular than first ed., which you'd think might have hinted to the developers that the changes to 4th might be over-correcting from the excessive complexity of 3rd.

I actually agree with TFA here.  4th is a really shiatty roleplaying game, but it would make an excellent tabletop deathmatch board game.  Do nothing but combat and you're sitting right on the system's sole strong point.

meanmutton: Has anyone mentioned that Pathfinder is the best version of D&D that's been created?  Oh, they have?  Well, then.  Carry on!


Nah.  The best d20 system game is Spycraft, by far.  Or, if you need to stay in the fantasy genre, Iron Heroes.

Felgraf: My only concern is that, as I'm fairly new to DMing, I may be doing too much on the fly. I'm still having *some* difficulty figuring out how challenging certain things should be with regard to skill DC's, especially things like Knowledge Nature (... And what Wizards put out for Bear Lore in 4.0 doesn't help.)


There are three ways to handle knowledge skills:

1. As-written, once you have about ten ranks in a class knowledge skill, you can pass essentially any knowledge nature check to identify something or know facts about typical behavior of any natural critter.  This actually is fine, just let 'em automatically succeed and stick the points somewhere else.  More different skills on players can make the characters more individualized and the game more fun.

2. Make the knowledge skills an alternate way to complete tasks sometimes, and use the DC of the base task plus 5 or so, e.g. defusing a trap made out of vines is DC 21 for the rogue, but the druid can figure out that this vine has a particular brittle point around the base of the leaves with know: nature 26 and poke it to disable the trap.

3. The "fark it" method: just use challenge rating.  Need a widely-known fact about a setting or encounter? Difficulty CR +5.  Need some sort of specialized knowledge?  CR+10.  Obscure facts that give a big clue to the plot? CR+15  Trying to sabotage your entire mystery by making their character know something that breaks the plot?  CR+25.
 
2014-01-16 05:20:54 PM  

fastbow: So basically, WotC turned a role-playing game into a table-top wargame, abandoning all that made it creative, fun and quirky for a rigid rule set and extreme specificity?

They've come full circle, my friends.


They should have used this for the cover:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-01-16 05:21:24 PM  
4ed? Fark you submitter. Fark you sideways.

2ed was GREAT. We were forced into 3.5ed after hurricane Francis ate our apartment and everything in it.
 
2014-01-16 05:21:52 PM  

Jim_Callahan: There are three ways to handle knowledge skills:

1. As-written, once you have about ten ranks in a class knowledge skill, you can pass essentially any knowledge nature check to identify something or know facts about typical behavior of any natural critter. This actually is fine, just let 'em automatically succeed and stick the points somewhere else. More different skills on players can make the characters more individualized and the game more fun.

2. Make the knowledge skills an alternate way to complete tasks sometimes, and use the DC of the base task plus 5 or so, e.g. defusing a trap made out of vines is DC 21 for the rogue, but the druid can figure out that this vine has a particular brittle point around the base of the leaves with know: nature 26 and poke it to disable the trap.

3. The "fark it" method: just use challenge rating. Need a widely-known fact about a setting or encounter? Difficulty CR +5. Need some sort of specialized knowledge? CR+10. Obscure facts that give a big clue to the plot? CR+15 Trying to sabotage your entire mystery by making their character know something that breaks the plot? CR+25.


That is a helpful way to look at it, thanks. I think I'm going to go for method 2 and 3 for the most part.

I admit I'm also really fortunate in that I seem to have really good players. Some are new, and some are really experienced, and... the really experienced ones have offered to create *new characters* because they realized they are WAY over powered compared to the rest of the group. (One of them really liked the flavor of the synthesist summoner, and has tried really, really, REALLY hard to not make a stupidly overpowered broken one. ... Then he discovered he can do 60 damage in 1 round of combat at level 6, and realized that he has *failed*. Thankfully, A) this is Eberron so Psionics exists ,B) Psionics ties into my plot *really well*, C) Aegis is simillar in theme to Summoner, and D) Psionics seems semi-balanced in Pathfinder.
 
2014-01-16 05:25:43 PM  

Jim_Callahan: We're talking about 4th edition here, though.  The one where all of the roleplay elements were all stripped out and combat was turned into a CCG / board game, and even  that was stripped down to a handful of predictable variations.

... which, to be fair, is what first edition was, too, because first edition was basically taking a standard war-game / strategy game and running a "hero map" where each player controlled only one unit with a slightly higher level of complexity.  The role-play stuff was just players messing around, it wasn't codified into the game in any real formal way until 2nd edition (aka "Advanced" D&D, the first really popular edition).

But as implied above, AD&D was way the hell more popular than first ed., which you'd think might have hinted to the developers that the changes to 4th might be over-correcting from the excessive complexity of 3rd.

I actually agree with TFA here.  4th is a really shiatty roleplaying game, but it would make an excellent tabletop deathmatch board game.  Do nothing but combat and you're sitting right on the system's sole strong point.


Yeah, I never played with any kind of character/gamepiece, and we didn't play on a grid or anything... Too bad to hear about 4th edition, at least the way the game is structured, it doesn't prevent everyone from playing the version they all agree on. Well, except for new modules coming out, I guess.
 
2014-01-16 05:26:51 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Mikey1969:  "Then why do people make so much fun of people who play? It seems to me like the level of imagination and concentration is more than you need for any video game. I'm actually impressed.".

We're talking about 4th edition here, though.  The one where all of the roleplay elements were all stripped out and combat was turned into a CCG / board game, and even  that was stripped down to a handful of predictable variations.

... which, to be fair, is what first edition was, too, because first edition was basically taking a standard war-game / strategy game and running a "hero map" where each player controlled only one unit with a slightly higher level of complexity.  The role-play stuff was just players messing around, it wasn't codified into the game in any real formal way until 2nd edition (aka "Advanced" D&D, the first really popular edition).

But as implied above, AD&D was way the hell more popular than first ed., which you'd think might have hinted to the developers that the changes to 4th might be over-correcting from the excessive complexity of 3rd.

I actually agree with TFA here.  4th is a really shiatty roleplaying game, but it would make an excellent tabletop deathmatch board game.  Do nothing but combat and you're sitting right on the system's sole strong point.


Lots clipped from this.

You got your history screwed up.  It went as follows:

Chainmail
blogofholding.com
D&D
altrimondigcsd.files.wordpress.com

AD&D
www.planetcomicsdirect.com
AD&D, 2nd Edition:
4.bp.blogspot.com

D&D 3rd Edition:
2.bp.blogspot.com
D&D 4:
nlgo.net
 
2014-01-16 05:53:31 PM  
I play D&D 3.5. I don't bother with 4th edition.
 
2014-01-16 05:57:10 PM  

TheOtherGuy: Anyone else see the Penny Arcade where Gabe's gaming group is so spoiled by 4E giving them everything they ever wanted all the time that Tycho suggests Pathfinder and then abuses them with it?  I can't seem to find it in the archives.


Here.

/desert thirrrrrst
 
2014-01-16 05:58:54 PM  

IronJelly: Jgok: And this bit FTFA: "A striker like a barbarian is going to obliterate a controller like a wizard."

What kind of crack are they smoking? Maybe if the wizard is an idiot, or if they start the fight already toe-to-toe. Any caster going into pvp will prep the spells they need to keep other players away.

How much have you used 4th edition?


I ran a 2-year campaign, and played in several others. Wizard, shaman, psion, and rogue. I've also done some pvp as a wizard. If you're talking low-level, the striker usually wins... But who's going to pvp with level 1 characters?

Control wizard, Wisdom build.
1. Illusory ambush (attack penalty), thunderwave (pushed), grasping shadows (slowed), horrid whispers (slowed & attack penalty, save ends) & grease (slowed & prone) for the daily.
2. Shield (AC bonus, reaction) & Expeditious Retreat (shift 2x speed)
3. Icy Rays (immobilized)
5. Bigby's Icy Grasp (directed summon, grabs target) & glitterdust (blinds)
6. Wizard's escape (teleport, interrupt) & summon iron cohort (intercepts attacks)

This is just with PH1 and Arcane Power. If you allow mongoose's "quintessential wizard", it's even more unbalanced (mind assault is a great at-will, strike and run, fierce will, nightmarish slumber, spinning staffs, reactive displacement, steel skin, etc).

The wizard is all about keeping the enemy away while doing damage. It depends on luck, but everything in D&D does. Know your opponent: most of those spells go against Will & Reflex. Each round is effectively "hamper your enemy, then run away". As long as you can get outside the move range of a melee opponent, they're fairly limited in what they can do. You'd have more trouble with a ranger than with a barbarian, IMO.

Now, all this falls by the wayside if you're dropped into a bare arena that's only 30 feet across. After all, you can't use a bow in a boxing ring. In that case, melee wins almost every time... but it would also be a boring fight. The arena needs to be interesting and fairly big, with obstacles and difficult terrain. The melee character needs a way to approach the ranged guy while taking cover, and the ranged character needs room to maneuver.

I actually find designing a balanced arena to be pretty fun on its own... incorporating elevation changes, trees, ruined walls, water, etc can be challenging. Lately I've been working on a Minecraft FTB arena (modified Magic World 2 pack), and balancing things between AM2, Thaumcraft, Blood Magic, etc. It's been quite fun, and there's enough cover to where melee characters can still compete.
 
2014-01-16 06:01:26 PM  

meanmutton: Has anyone mentioned that Pathfinder is the best version of D&D that's been created?  Oh, they have?  Well, then.  Carry on!


Has anybody mentioned that they don't go in for all these high-falutin' rulesets and that true players enjoy 0ED adventures with one-spell-per-day magic-users and insta-death pit traps?

/I'll only play a game where you need funky dice like D7 and D24.
//D9 and D11 coming soon!
 
2014-01-16 06:34:22 PM  
I love all editions of D&D. Having said that, I don't need Pathfinder. Not one single 3rd edition book exploded in flames when Pathfinder came out. I'll play D&D 3e. (Eberron is one of my favorite settings.)

Paizo did a great job in getting suckers to buy 3e again right after they swore they won't buy "the same system all over again from scratch" a second time. 3.0. Then 3.5. "Never again! What? Pathfinder! I'm in!"
 
2014-01-16 06:39:17 PM  

JohnnyC: I play D&D 3.5. I don't bother with 4th edition.


Same here. Or would, if i could ever find anyone else around here to play with. Around here people still start screeching "DEBBIL WORSHIPPER!!!!" if you so much as mention D&D in regular company.
 
2014-01-16 06:44:14 PM  

digitalrain: 2ed was GREAT.


Was.  Then 3rd came out and streamlined so much unnecessary garbage like THAC0, some rolls needing to be high vs some needing to be low, restrictions on what race could do what class.  Hell, I look at my 1st edition AD&D book now and it's cluttered, convoluted, and overly complex.

About the only thing 3/3.5 got wrong was making Half-elves worthless.  And that can just be solved by implementing the Pathfinder Half-Elf rules.

I'm stoked for Next, though - it's got the streamlined mechanics from later editions without sacrificing the feel of how characters worked in older editions.

Jim_Callahan: The best d20 system game is Spycraft, by far.


I'm an AEG fanboy - I loved everything L5R (hell, I bought the L5R pseudo-pog game), and Spycraft was absolutely brilliant.  It's light-years ahead of D20 Modern; I don't know who thought "The Strong Hero", "The Wise Hero", etc. was a good idea.  But I've had tons of fun with both Spycraft D20.

I've also loved Star Wars D20 Revised (not Saga, it's underwhelming).  Star Wars replaces the magic system with a Force Skill system that integrates well with the rest of the rules.
 
2014-01-16 06:46:24 PM  
I love Pathfinder, but the problem lies that I have a friend that is enamored with D&D next, and tells constantly that PF is 'broken at its core', and he points out another friend in the group that loves making overpowered characters.

I actually love PF, and I love how it plays, however, on a bad day, I prefer to not run anything because on one hand I have one player that will keep saying 'Well in X system this works even better, whereas here it's all clunky and not cool', and on the other side is 'That's the BBEG? I grapple him, end of story'.

Still, I love Pathfinder. And the old Deadlands: Hell on Earth. nWod is cool, and D&D Next looks interesting.
 
2014-01-16 06:51:30 PM  

UNC_Samurai: I'm an AEG fanboy - I loved everything L5R (hell, I bought the L5R pseudo-pog game), and Spycraft was absolutely brilliant. It's light-years ahead of D20 Modern; I don't know who thought "The Strong Hero", "The Wise Hero", etc. was a good idea. But I've had tons of fun with both Spycraft D20.


I love L5R.  I'll be trying to get another game of that going soon.  So much fun.  Spycraft, I've only played a little bit of, and haven't run it.  Seemed good to me.  I really liked some of the ideas they had, like the focus points or whatever they called them.  Those bonus dice...

CygnusDarius: And the old Deadlands: Hell on Earth.


I have most of the books for this, but I have yet to play it.  Looks like it would be just about the perfect thing for running a Dark Tower inspired game.  I've run original Deadlands several times, and had an absolute blast.  Might actually get the chance to be just a player in someone's Deadlands Reloaded game.  We'll see how that goes.  Since I'm freelancing for a company that does mostly Savage Worlds stuff, I really should try playing the system...
 
2014-01-16 07:00:11 PM  
I have 2e, 3e, Mechwarrior, and Robotech (and the kickstarted tabletop game coming soon) and nobody to play with. Won't somebody think of the gamers without homes?!!?
 
2014-01-16 07:19:00 PM  
I've never understood the hate for 4E. My group has had a great time with it and wouldn't go to Pathfinder.

I really don't get the "can't roleplay in 4E" complaint, either. We had no trouble running a great game; perhaps you just have bad GMs.

/Stay away from published adventures for any system
 
2014-01-16 07:22:55 PM  
You nerds and your books. (i play mtgo)
 
2014-01-16 07:27:17 PM  

hstein3: /Stay away from published adventures for any system


If I ever get a gaming group that I GM, (which I'm terrible at) I will run them through adapted KoDT adventures without them knowing it. When they figure it out, I'll hit play on "Smoke on the Water" and throw a shot glass at someone
 
2014-01-16 07:52:03 PM  

neuroflare: hstein3: /Stay away from published adventures for any system

If I ever get a gaming group that I GM, (which I'm terrible at) I will run them through adapted KoDT adventures without them knowing it. When they figure it out, I'll hit play on "Smoke on the Water" and throw a shot glass at someone


Pure awesome.

/don't forget the gazebo, the green davenport, and the hedgerow
//and the magic rock that talks in a dialect of quartz when you lick it
///and the magic cow that gives a to-hit bonus
////and, and, and...

Too many things to laugh at, imagining a group in those sessions...
 
2014-01-16 07:55:26 PM  
I liked it better when it was called Earthdawn.
 
2014-01-16 07:56:15 PM  

Jgok: neuroflare: hstein3: /Stay away from published adventures for any system

If I ever get a gaming group that I GM, (which I'm terrible at) I will run them through adapted KoDT adventures without them knowing it. When they figure it out, I'll hit play on "Smoke on the Water" and throw a shot glass at someone

Pure awesome.

/don't forget the gazebo, the green davenport, and the hedgerow
//and the magic rock that talks in a dialect of quartz when you lick it
///and the magic cow that gives a to-hit bonus
////and, and, and...

Too many things to laugh at, imagining a group in those sessions...


There's apparently a kickstarter for a live action series I just found RIGHT HERE

Also, I think I have a hackmaster players handbook lying around somewhere...
 
2014-01-16 08:10:32 PM  

hstein3: I've never understood the hate for 4E. My group has had a great time with it and wouldn't go to Pathfinder.

I really don't get the "can't roleplay in 4E" complaint, either. We had no trouble running a great game; perhaps you just have bad GMs.

/Stay away from published adventures for any system


Temple of Elemental Evil, Nightmare Keep, Tomb of Horrors, Queen of Spiders and numerous other modules would disagree.
 
2014-01-16 08:15:56 PM  

hstein3: I've never understood the hate for 4E. My group has had a great time with it and wouldn't go to Pathfinder.

I really don't get the "can't roleplay in 4E" complaint, either. We had no trouble running a great game; perhaps you just have bad GMs.

/Stay away from published adventures for any system


Thank you. 4e is fantastic. And its really easy to tell who has actually played it with an open mind and who hasn't. If I see the 'no roleplay' or WoW arguments, I immediately disregard that opinion/argument.

And if anyone wants to PvP in 4e, know that its a bad idea. You take your Wizard. Hell, bring two. My Shoot to Thrill Ranger just won initiative and made 7 attacks against you. Congratulations you're dead.
 
2014-01-16 08:24:47 PM  

fastbow: So basically, WotC turned a role-playing game into a table-top wargame, abandoning all that made it creative, fun and quirky for a rigid rule set and extreme specificity?

They've come full circle, my friends.


Basically, they were going for tabletop WoW.  Which is a stupid idea, IMHO.
 
2014-01-16 08:29:56 PM  
Playing D&D on paper at all requires friends, so I'm not that interested.
 
2014-01-16 08:30:08 PM  
Wish I could get the old group together and play some of this:

www.farfuture.net

We had such a great GM back in the day that I think it would be a huge letdown if I attempted to "capture the magic" again with new people...

He (our GM) was a writer, and we would play these epic campaigns that carried over from the ones he played back in high school (he was a little older than the rest of us). Every so often, one of his old buddies would fly in to town and they would take over an NPC for the night (since the guy we were running guns for was one of their characters from back in the day). Cracked them up to be doing it, and it was funny to see how they played their character exactly how our GM had been running them for the last year or so.
 
2014-01-16 08:32:23 PM  

Mr. Pokeylope: Wish I could get the old group together and play some of this:

[www.farfuture.net image 348x505]

We had such a great GM back in the day that I think it would be a huge letdown if I attempted to "capture the magic" again with new people...

He (our GM) was a writer, and we would play these epic campaigns that carried over from the ones he played back in high school (he was a little older than the rest of us). Every so often, one of his old buddies would fly in to town and they would take over an NPC for the night (since the guy we were running guns for was one of their characters from back in the day). Cracked them up to be doing it, and it was funny to see how they played their character exactly how our GM had been running them for the last year or so.



Get the Mongoose edition, classic Traveller feel with some good elements added.
 
2014-01-16 08:38:15 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: hstein3: I've never understood the hate for 4E. My group has had a great time with it and wouldn't go to Pathfinder.

I really don't get the "can't roleplay in 4E" complaint, either. We had no trouble running a great game; perhaps you just have bad GMs.

/Stay away from published adventures for any system

Temple of Elemental Evil, Nightmare Keep, Tomb of Horrors, Queen of Spiders and numerous other modules would disagree.


I would throw in Ptolus.  One city, with almost every damned room of every damned building outlined in the farkin' manual.  It was the first time I thought the actual people paid to write that shiat were nerds for the amount of sheer detail put into it.  Then, it was Monte Cook, so obviously that was just one way in which the product was farkin' nuts.

//The core adventure story-lines  accounted for the players farking up and releasing an ancient evil that turned most of the city undead...  as a minor aside.  So ridiculous.
//We had to work out how to salvage the doors in the central spire and sell them as scrap to make the DM calculate something instead of just looking it up.
 
2014-01-16 08:46:59 PM  

Dingleberry Dickwad: hstein3: I've never understood the hate for 4E. My group has had a great time with it and wouldn't go to Pathfinder.

I really don't get the "can't roleplay in 4E" complaint, either. We had no trouble running a great game; perhaps you just have bad GMs.

/Stay away from published adventures for any system

Temple of Elemental Evil, Nightmare Keep, Tomb of Horrors, Queen of Spiders and numerous other modules would disagree.


I have a soft spot for Temple of the Frog.
 
2014-01-16 08:48:02 PM  

Boojum2k: Mr. Pokeylope: Wish I could get the old group together and play some of this:

[www.farfuture.net image 348x505]

We had such a great GM back in the day that I think it would be a huge letdown if I attempted to "capture the magic" again with new people...

He (our GM) was a writer, and we would play these epic campaigns that carried over from the ones he played back in high school (he was a little older than the rest of us). Every so often, one of his old buddies would fly in to town and they would take over an NPC for the night (since the guy we were running guns for was one of their characters from back in the day). Cracked them up to be doing it, and it was funny to see how they played their character exactly how our GM had been running them for the last year or so.


Get the Mongoose edition, classic Traveller feel with some good elements added.


We used the original Traveller rules for most things (I loved those little black books), and the MegaTraveller stuff mostly for the maps and vehicles (and some of the updated story elements).

There should be more games where it isn't uncommon to die a few times while rolling up your character.
 
2014-01-16 08:49:52 PM  

Mikey1969: I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules.


You ever check out Temple of Elemental Evil?  After a bunch of fan patches to make it actually playable it's not a bad 3rd edition PC game.
 
2014-01-16 08:56:21 PM  

Farker Soze: Mikey1969: I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules.

You ever check out Temple of Elemental Evil?  After a bunch of fan patches to make it actually playable it's not a bad 3rd edition PC game.


No, but thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.
 
2014-01-16 09:06:15 PM  

Mikey1969: Farker Soze: Mikey1969: I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules.

You ever check out Temple of Elemental Evil?  After a bunch of fan patches to make it actually playable it's not a bad 3rd edition PC game.

No, but thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.


6 bucks at Good Old Games, and google Circle of Eight for patches and mods.
 
2014-01-16 09:07:35 PM  

Farker Soze: Mikey1969: I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules.

You ever check out Temple of Elemental Evil?  After a bunch of fan patches to make it actually playable it's not a bad 3rd edition PC game.


Huh, they finally made a PC game of ToEE? I may have to check that out.
 
2014-01-16 09:10:07 PM  

mattador: hstein3: I've never understood the hate for 4E. My group has had a great time with it and wouldn't go to Pathfinder.

I really don't get the "can't roleplay in 4E" complaint, either. We had no trouble running a great game; perhaps you just have bad GMs.

/Stay away from published adventures for any system

Thank you. 4e is fantastic. And its really easy to tell who has actually played it with an open mind and who hasn't. If I see the 'no roleplay' or WoW arguments, I immediately disregard that opinion/argument.

And if anyone wants to PvP in 4e, know that its a bad idea. You take your Wizard. Hell, bring two. My Shoot to Thrill Ranger just won initiative and made 7 attacks against you. Congratulations you're dead.


At least 4e had nominal balance between classes.  As much as I love 3.5, wizards are ba-ro-ken.

A few years ago someone on the WotC forums tried an interesting experiment.  A 20th-level fighter with access to every single 3.5 WotC splatbook, versus a 20th level wizard using just the Core Rules.  The guy running the wizard took it one step further, and ran the wizard naked (with no magic items).

Every duel ended the same way; the fighter never got an action.
 
2014-01-16 09:13:20 PM  
I am mistaken - he took magic items, just none that filled clothing slots.
 
2014-01-16 09:21:11 PM  

UNC_Samurai: mattador: hstein3: I've never understood the hate for 4E. My group has had a great time with it and wouldn't go to Pathfinder.

I really don't get the "can't roleplay in 4E" complaint, either. We had no trouble running a great game; perhaps you just have bad GMs.

/Stay away from published adventures for any system

Thank you. 4e is fantastic. And its really easy to tell who has actually played it with an open mind and who hasn't. If I see the 'no roleplay' or WoW arguments, I immediately disregard that opinion/argument.

And if anyone wants to PvP in 4e, know that its a bad idea. You take your Wizard. Hell, bring two. My Shoot to Thrill Ranger just won initiative and made 7 attacks against you. Congratulations you're dead.

At least 4e had nominal balance between classes.  As much as I love 3.5, wizards are ba-ro-ken.

A few years ago someone on the WotC forums tried an interesting experiment.  A 20th-level fighter with access to every single 3.5 WotC splatbook, versus a 20th level wizard using just the Core Rules.  The guy running the wizard took it one step further, and ran the wizard naked (with no magic items).

Every duel ended the same way; the fighter never got an action.


You ever listen to Fear the Boot? They had an episode recently where one of the hosts is trying to figure out how the hell to make a rogue who is actually good at his role in Pathfinder. He ends up relearning the old mantra for that system: "Wizards do it better."
 
2014-01-16 09:21:30 PM  

Farker Soze: Mikey1969: Farker Soze: Mikey1969: I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules.

You ever check out Temple of Elemental Evil?  After a bunch of fan patches to make it actually playable it's not a bad 3rd edition PC game.

No, but thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.

6 bucks at Good Old Games, and google Circle of Eight for patches and mods.



I just went and grabbed it too.
 
2014-01-16 09:25:31 PM  

meanmutton: fastbow: So basically, WotC turned a role-playing game into a table-top wargame, abandoning all that made it creative, fun and quirky for a rigid rule set and extreme specificity?

They've come full circle, my friends.

They should have used this for the cover:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 195x297]


Yeah, I was gonna say, original DnD sprang out of miniature-based, squad level combat scenarios.

All of my groups dried up before Pathfinder was a 'thing'. I hear it's the poop these days.
 
2014-01-16 09:27:18 PM  

hstein3: You ever listen to Fear the Boot? They had an episode recently where one of the hosts is trying to figure out how the hell to make a rogue who is actually good at his role in Pathfinder. He ends up relearning the old mantra for that system: "Wizards do it better."


I've seen several Rogues at various Pathfinder Society games/events.  There's a couple of fairly decent Rogue builds out there - mostly either skill monkeys or Two-Weapon Fighting clouds of swirling damage.
 
2014-01-16 09:35:48 PM  

Smoking GNU: JohnnyC: I play D&D 3.5. I don't bother with 4th edition.

Same here. Or would, if i could ever find anyone else around here to play with. Around here people still start screeching "DEBBIL WORSHIPPER!!!!" if you so much as mention D&D in regular company.


I live in South Dakota now, and while it's a fairly conservative state, I haven't heard anyone claim devil worship or anything yet.
 
2014-01-16 09:38:30 PM  

Boojum2k: Farker Soze: Mikey1969: Farker Soze: Mikey1969: I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules.

You ever check out Temple of Elemental Evil?  After a bunch of fan patches to make it actually playable it's not a bad 3rd edition PC game.

No, but thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.

6 bucks at Good Old Games, and google Circle of Eight for patches and mods.


I just went and grabbed it too.


Anyone getting ToEE, consider this mandatory.  http://www.co8.org/forum/showpost.php?p=127811&postcount=59  Looks like they're up to 8.0
 
2014-01-16 09:38:55 PM  
i like the systems that are heavier on roleplaying and storytelling.

dnd was good in its time, but roleplaying by accident or only at a whim is not my cup of tea.

yes, you can do this or that, but the game itself is set up to push miniatures around a grid.
 
2014-01-16 09:39:16 PM  

Mr. Pokeylope: Wish I could get the old group together and play some of this:

[www.farfuture.net image 348x505]

We had such a great GM back in the day that I think it would be a huge letdown if I attempted to "capture the magic" again with new people...

He (our GM) was a writer, and we would play these epic campaigns that carried over from the ones he played back in high school (he was a little older than the rest of us). Every so often, one of his old buddies would fly in to town and they would take over an NPC for the night (since the guy we were running guns for was one of their characters from back in the day). Cracked them up to be doing it, and it was funny to see how they played their character exactly how our GM had been running them for the last year or so.


I loved that game, but the combat rules were kludgy at best.  Did your GM do his own system or patch up the existing system?
 
2014-01-16 09:39:32 PM  

UNC_Samurai: mattador: hstein3: I've never understood the hate for 4E. My group has had a great time with it and wouldn't go to Pathfinder.

I really don't get the "can't roleplay in 4E" complaint, either. We had no trouble running a great game; perhaps you just have bad GMs.

/Stay away from published adventures for any system

Thank you. 4e is fantastic. And its really easy to tell who has actually played it with an open mind and who hasn't. If I see the 'no roleplay' or WoW arguments, I immediately disregard that opinion/argument.

And if anyone wants to PvP in 4e, know that its a bad idea. You take your Wizard. Hell, bring two. My Shoot to Thrill Ranger just won initiative and made 7 attacks against you. Congratulations you're dead.

At least 4e had nominal balance between classes.  As much as I love 3.5, wizards are ba-ro-ken.

A few years ago someone on the WotC forums tried an interesting experiment.  A 20th-level fighter with access to every single 3.5 WotC splatbook, versus a 20th level wizard using just the Core Rules.  The guy running the wizard took it one step further, and ran the wizard naked (with no magic items).

Every duel ended the same way; the fighter never got an action.


Good. I don't see a problem here.
 
2014-01-16 09:40:33 PM  
No, wait.  http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7737 for instructions and links.
 
2014-01-16 09:53:13 PM  

meanmutton: Jim_Callahan: Mikey1969:  "Then why do people make so much fun of people who play? It seems to me like the level of imagination and concentration is more than you need for any video game. I'm actually impressed.".

We're talking about 4th edition here, though.  The one where all of the roleplay elements were all stripped out and combat was turned into a CCG / board game, and even  that was stripped down to a handful of predictable variations.

... which, to be fair, is what first edition was, too, because first edition was basically taking a standard war-game / strategy game and running a "hero map" where each player controlled only one unit with a slightly higher level of complexity.  The role-play stuff was just players messing around, it wasn't codified into the game in any real formal way until 2nd edition (aka "Advanced" D&D, the first really popular edition).

But as implied above, AD&D was way the hell more popular than first ed., which you'd think might have hinted to the developers that the changes to 4th might be over-correcting from the excessive complexity of 3rd.

I actually agree with TFA here.  4th is a really shiatty roleplaying game, but it would make an excellent tabletop deathmatch board game.  Do nothing but combat and you're sitting right on the system's sole strong point.

Lots clipped from this.

You got your history screwed up.  It went as follows:

Chainmail
[blogofholding.com image 700x1075]
D&D
[altrimondigcsd.files.wordpress.com image 500x658]

AD&D
[www.planetcomicsdirect.com image 850x1120]
AD&D, 2nd Edition:
[4.bp.blogspot.com image 241x317]

D&D 3rd Edition:
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 787x1024]
D&D 4:
[nlgo.net image 375x500]


You're missing the white box...
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-16 10:19:32 PM  

ReverendJynxed: You're missing the white box...


I've got a bunch of those beigeish books.  They're not 1st edition, but 1979 reprints.  Are these worth anything?
 
2014-01-16 10:47:56 PM  

ReverendJynxed: You're missing the white box...


I had a set of those.  Shoplifted them.  Not proud of it.  Spent a butt-load of money on RPG books later in life if that buys down any of my guilt.
 
2014-01-16 10:59:33 PM  

DarkLancelot: Mr. Pokeylope: Wish I could get the old group together and play some of this:

[www.farfuture.net image 348x505]

We had such a great GM back in the day that I think it would be a huge letdown if I attempted to "capture the magic" again with new people...

He (our GM) was a writer, and we would play these epic campaigns that carried over from the ones he played back in high school (he was a little older than the rest of us). Every so often, one of his old buddies would fly in to town and they would take over an NPC for the night (since the guy we were running guns for was one of their characters from back in the day). Cracked them up to be doing it, and it was funny to see how they played their character exactly how our GM had been running them for the last year or so.

I loved that game, but the combat rules were kludgy at best.  Did your GM do his own system or patch up the existing system?


He must have at least tweaked it, always seemed to run pretty smooth to me. Was always so satisfying rolling a fat double hander of six siders for some of the bigger guns.

I know I deep sixed one campaign when I, as the noble who had brought the group together, rolled snake eyes trying to fire a FGMP out of the back of some grav-car that we had stolen when I didn't have the proficiency for it. He let me roll against my JOAT to see if I would have the wherewithal to dump the thing before it blew it up... rolled snake eyes again and blew the whole party out of the sky.

He was so pissed.

He barely saved the whole thing by having us take over the skin jobs that we had hired from the Tyrell corp. that we had stashed back at the ship for the second part of our master plan. He screwed with me hard for the rest of the adventure. Think I went through five or six of those damn meatbags...

Twas the penalty for screwing up his story arc.
 
2014-01-16 11:22:51 PM  
Give me the old-school supplements.

Including the one with the specs and describing all the classic Gygax group's characters...
Mordenkainen, Tenser, Bigby, Rary, Otto, Robilar, etc...
 
2014-01-16 11:30:50 PM  
3rd and and onward lost me when they made psionics into just another sort of magic. The whole point was that is was completely different from being a damn wizard.
 
2014-01-17 12:05:37 AM  
I would prefer to stick with the 2nd edition, although my first experience was the 1st.  Never played with the 3rd and now I guess I need to buy the 4th too and see what is up with this.
 
2014-01-17 02:03:08 AM  
I love to use Pathfinder's systems and either Pathfinder's world or 2e's world settings. 3rd ed's writing sucks.
 
2014-01-17 02:07:38 AM  
www.sjgames.com
I like this 4E...


/too many rules in D&D :p
//Also, just because I love it...here's a link to 'Roll A D6'
 
2014-01-17 02:41:57 AM  

legion_of_doo: i like the systems that are heavier on roleplaying and storytelling.

dnd was good in its time, but roleplaying by accident or only at a whim is not my cup of tea.

yes, you can do this or that, but the game itself is set up to push miniatures around a grid.


There's actually been some fairly in-depth discussion of this up-thread, AD&D through 3.5 are pretty focused around roleplay.  Actually the big  flaw of 3.0 was that the system was designed around everything having role-play applications so there was a way for players to do anything, which meant (1) the rules got massively overcomplicated and (2) a lot of "non-combat" things turned out to be either unintentionally useful in combat or exploitable such that players could circumvent combat with hacs of a sort, getting full xp form the encounter that was supposed to use half their resources with a couple skill rolls.

The stand-out poster-boy for this was probably bluff.  Standard NPCs don't have sense motive and the biggest penalty you could take to a bluff was -20.  There was a potion that gave you +30 to bluff for a couple minutes, and the effect of winning the opposed roll was that the person you were talking to  believed you.  Not "believed you sincerely think what you're saying is true", but  believed the statement itself.

Pack of orcs ambushes the party?  "I'm actually your king."  "You don't even know the king's name."  "We're saying it's Bob, it's part of the bluff."  *roll*  "Oh, fark you, man."

Though, all that said, if you want straight roleplay, where even the combat is mostly roleplay, go with World of Darkness.  The setting gets stupid really fast, but the  system causes your abilities to grow very organically from your character.  This means that abilities get really unbalanced really quickly if you  try to powergame (coughmagetheascensioncough) but the golden rule of "anything your character has figured out, so has an NPC with more dice to roll" can actually keep that in check too.  And if you're all in it for the RP, it works really well.

// Even if no one is taking the setting seriously, which is one of the two outcomes with Vampire.  You either get crazy got dark people that are dark like the dark darkness that shrouds their darkened souls in darkness... or you get "holy shiat this system is flexible, I wonder how close I can get to re-enacting "Harvey" with a schizophrenic Malkavian".  And the latter just makes everyone life a little better every time a vampire nurse rolls a crit success on lecturing schoolchildren on the necessity of safe sex to avoid blood-bourne diseases or whatever.

// I still prefer Spycraft, because as much as I love roleplay, some NPCs are just so annoying that I also want the ability to haul off and judo-chop them in the face halfway through a delicate negotiation, escape their guards in a dramatic chase scene ("that's farking impossible" being a literal strategy you can use in chase scenes), then have my teammate stab him and assume his identity for the rest of the mission.
 
2014-01-17 02:55:16 AM  
www2.macleans.ca
seriously....NERDS!
 
2014-01-17 03:56:33 AM  

Boojum2k: Farker Soze: Mikey1969: Farker Soze: Mikey1969: I'll never find another group for gaming that fits me as well as that early one did, but I enjoyed the ever-lovin' shiat out of games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, so I can always hope that they come out with another one that follows D&D rules.

You ever check out Temple of Elemental Evil?  After a bunch of fan patches to make it actually playable it's not a bad 3rd edition PC game.

No, but thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.

6 bucks at Good Old Games, and google Circle of Eight for patches and mods.


I just went and grabbed it too.


Well worth it... as long as you get the Co8 patches. It's unplayable without them, but great with them.
 
2014-01-17 08:39:09 AM  

Terrible Old Man: I love to use Pathfinder's systems and either Pathfinder's world or 2e's world settings. 3rd ed's writing sucks.


I disagree. Eberron is FANTASTIC.

Faerun/Forgotten Realms can go fark off, though. Too many super-level NPC's running around (This guy! He's the mentor TO HIS OWN GODDESS. Of magic.), and most of the dieties are basically evil. (My argument: it is evil for a demi-lich to destroy a soul to maintain their own power. It's sure as fark probably evil to help them do that, too. I do not see much difference between that and the Wall of the Faithless in anything except maybe SCALE, so, fark them.)
 
2014-01-17 10:50:52 AM  
AD&D 2nd addition is what I've stuck to. Writing my own campaigns and running them without issues since 1990's right up unitl a few years ago when we dropped off in players in our group. We took a 6 month break thats now in its 4th year..............
 
2014-01-17 12:30:47 PM  

legion_of_doo: i like the systems that are heavier on roleplaying and storytelling.

dnd was good in its time, but roleplaying by accident or only at a whim is not my cup of tea.

yes, you can do this or that, but the game itself is set up to push miniatures around a grid.


My group finished up a Pathfinder campaign a few months ago, so we decided to try 13th Age.  We all love it.  It's focused much more on storytelling than on mechanics.  You don't have "skills," for example, you just have your character's backstory, so if you need to do something like pick a lock, you just convince the GM how your backstory lets you know how to do it, and then roll.

Just wanted to plug 13th Age, since no one's mentioned it yet.  It seems like you might like it.  You do need a really creative GM, though.
 
2014-01-17 05:51:23 PM  

ikanreed: Paizo turned one of the greatest coups in board games' industry history. Wizards got them to make a bunch(expensive when you're paying people to make it) of 3.5 content right before they dumped 4.0. Paizo was slated to go out of business on their "pathfinder campaign setting," but they capitalized on nerd-rage and resold pathfinder as an actual improvement on 3.5, leaving wizards of the coast in the dust.


What the hell are you talking about?! Wizards didn't make Paizo do anything. All 3.x product published by Paizo was done of their own accord. And no, they weren't "slated to go out of business" before making the PFRPG. They just knew they wouldn't be able to make 4.0 stuff so they went their own way using the OGL (which wasn't applicable to 4th). PFRPG is a great, well thought-out game and the fact that it "won" the edition wars has nothing to do with "capitalizing on nerd rage." The product was in development long, long before 4E came out, and therefore long, long before anyone knew 4E would suck (although many people were angry that the move to 4E was so fast after 3.5). In fact, I would argue that WotC's pathetic "update" to the OGL (I can't remember what the new document is called) is probably what helped push Paizo to make PFRPG.
 
Displayed 98 of 98 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report