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(Salon)   Myth: Christians have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011   (salon.com) divider line 87
    More: Obvious, hhs secretary, birth control, hormonal contraceptives, Catholic Charities, IUD, emergency contraception, Kathleen Sebelius, global citizens  
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3457 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jan 2014 at 2:49 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-16 02:40:06 PM
Um... no.
 
2014-01-16 02:52:09 PM
Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.
 
2014-01-16 02:54:41 PM
Unless they have those memory erasers from Men in Black, I'm calling shenanigans.
 
2014-01-16 02:54:46 PM
For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition. For evangelicals it's convincing themselves that this is about being forced to cover Plan B and other "abortafacients" (even though no birth control including Plan B on the market has been proven to be an abortifacient and in fact the latest studies strengthen claims that there is no link between their use and miscarriage) so they can be equally outraged.
 
2014-01-16 02:54:51 PM

nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.


This, so very much.
 
2014-01-16 02:56:22 PM
Pastebin for anyone interested:  http://pastebin.com/0bWB7cYU

Also, that doesn't make a lick of sense. Things like abstinence-only education has existed forever thanks to Evangelicals and the Catholic Church never condoned contraception.
 
2014-01-16 02:57:34 PM

Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.


That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.
 
2014-01-16 02:58:47 PM

nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.


Meh. I would say Catholic leadership. Individual Catholics never really seemed to care much.
 
2014-01-16 02:59:00 PM
Maybe subby comes from one of those Protestant backgrounds where only Protestants are Christians.
 
2014-01-16 02:59:58 PM
It was definitely before 2011.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-01-16 03:00:36 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.


Every Catholic girl I ever dated is VERY pro-birth control.

Thank Gawd for that.
 
2014-01-16 03:01:58 PM
Neat.  It's one of those articles/threads where people honestly believe that anything that happened prior to them didn't really happen.
I love these.

/You're not important.
// The world has existed, and did things, long before you.
/// It will do stuff long after you too. Because you don't matter. At all. In any way.
 
2014-01-16 03:02:24 PM

Exception Collection: nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.

This, so very much.


The Church yes. The flock, not so much. One of the co-inventors of the first birth control pill (John Rock) was a practicing Catholic. He thought the pill would get around the church's restrictions on other forms of birth control because it mimicked the natural way the body avoids getting pregnant again while already pregnant.
 
2014-01-16 03:02:39 PM
Then what was Griswold v. Connecticut all about in the 60s?
 
2014-01-16 03:02:50 PM

nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.


More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.
 
2014-01-16 03:04:25 PM

d23: Every Catholic girl I ever dated is VERY pro-birth control.


Well, I'm not surprised.  If she were to get pregnant, I can imagine what Mom & Dad's good Catholic reactions would be.
 
2014-01-16 03:05:36 PM

DarwiOdrade: nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.

More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.


Funny how that's pretty much exactly the makeup of the general population.
 
2014-01-16 03:05:43 PM

jigger: Then what was Griswold v. Connecticut all about in the 60s?


It was about Chevy Chase's right to go on vacation with his family.
 
2014-01-16 03:07:11 PM

grumpfuff: Meh. I would say Catholic leadership. Individual Catholics never really seemed to care much.


DarwiOdrade: More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.



How many Jews do you know who keep kosher? It's a lot less than 70%, I can guarantee you that. People will do what they want, but it's been the official position for a long time.
 
2014-01-16 03:07:17 PM

DarwiOdrade: More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.


Huh.

Perhaps if they were a touch more pro-birth control, they would be able to avoid having so many abortions.

But then again, that's logic talking...
 
2014-01-16 03:09:08 PM

Facetious_Speciest: Maybe subby comes from one of those Protestant backgrounds where only Protestants are Christians.


My uncle has been a Catholic priest for about 40 years now. I used Christian because, hell, I like trolling.

/subby
 
2014-01-16 03:12:33 PM

d23: HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.

Every Catholic girl I ever dated is VERY pro-birth control.

Thank Gawd for that.


Catholic women do use birth control at a lower rate than the general public. Among the general public, 99% of sexually mature women have used birth control. Among Catholic women, that number drops to 98%.
 
2014-01-16 03:13:18 PM

nmrsnr: grumpfuff: Meh. I would say Catholic leadership. Individual Catholics never really seemed to care much.

DarwiOdrade: More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.


How many Jews do you know who keep kosher? It's a lot less than 70%, I can guarantee you that. People will do what they want, but it's been the official position for a long time.


The difference being, of course, that different sects of Judaism have different rules and ideas about keeping Kosher and its importance. On the other hand, all Catholics are bound by doctrine to oppose birth control.
 
2014-01-16 03:14:17 PM

nmrsnr: grumpfuff: Meh. I would say Catholic leadership. Individual Catholics never really seemed to care much.

DarwiOdrade: More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.


How many Jews do you know who keep kosher? It's a lot less than 70%, I can guarantee you that. People will do what they want, but it's been the official position for a long time.


Well, yea. That was kinda my point. Officially, Catholics are supposed to not use it. In reality, most do anyway. FFS, I went to a Jesuit high school where in health class they told us about condoms and how important it was to at least practice safe sex, if not abstinence.

Then again, it was a Jesuit school.
 
2014-01-16 03:15:37 PM
Serious Black

Good choice, then. :) Probably should have waited until later for the reveal, though. :(
 
2014-01-16 03:18:25 PM
Why do evangelicals think that I give a single turd about what they think?

Just go away, you f*cks. Nobody cares.
 
2014-01-16 03:20:39 PM

Craptastic: Why do evangelicals think that I give a single turd about what they think?

Just go away, you f*cks. Nobody cares.


They just want you to be saved, for your own good. Funny, they don't seem to like that reasoning when liberals/Democrats use it.
 
2014-01-16 03:25:22 PM
Sarah Palin told us that Jesus protested in front of Roman abortion clinics.
 
2014-01-16 03:26:43 PM
i44.tinypic.com
 
2014-01-16 03:32:44 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.


What? No they're not. I worked for a community clinic affiliated with a Catholic hospital and they weren't allowed to prescribe birth control unless it was for a serious medical reason.

Which we all found 99% of the time, wink wink. But they would audit charts, ergo lots of 'heavy, uncontrolled bleeding' during girly time.
 
2014-01-16 03:34:46 PM
It's coming from Salon, so you know it's good stuff.  It's the equivalent to a website being made of real panther.
 
2014-01-16 03:37:05 PM

DarwiOdrade: nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.

More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.


"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"
 
2014-01-16 03:40:50 PM

d23: HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.

Every Catholic girl I ever dated is VERY pro-birth control.

Thank Gawd for that.


My wife was Catholic and stil uses abstinence only
 
2014-01-16 03:51:19 PM

Cheron: d23: HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.

Every Catholic girl I ever dated is VERY pro-birth control.

Thank Gawd for that.

My wife was Catholic and stil uses abstinence only


So you qualify to be the mother of God, Cheron?
 
2014-01-16 04:00:28 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.


grumpfuff: nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.

Meh. I would say Catholic leadership. Individual Catholics never really seemed to care much.


Your experience might be different from mine, but I was raised Catholic and I have maintained a number of friendships with practicing Catholic friends, and they are unanimously and categorically against any form of birth control, except perhaps the "calendar method". That doesn't mean that they don't usebirth control in a classic "Do as I say, not as I do" move, but vocal resistance seems pretty consistent across Catholics in Ottawa.
 
2014-01-16 04:03:28 PM

ThreadSinger: Your experience might be different from mine, but I was raised Catholic and I have maintained a number of friendships with practicing Catholic friends, and they are unanimously and categorically against any form of birth control, except perhaps the "calendar method". That doesn't mean that they don't usebirth control in a classic "Do as I say, not as I do" move, but vocal resistance seems pretty consistent across Catholics in Ottawa.


Well, point of note, I live in NJ, and most Catholics I know are from here or NY. So I probably know the most liberal of liberal Catholics.
 
2014-01-16 04:04:43 PM

ThreadSinger: HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.

grumpfuff: nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.

Meh. I would say Catholic leadership. Individual Catholics never really seemed to care much.

Your experience might be different from mine, but I was raised Catholic and I have maintained a number of friendships with practicing Catholic friends, and they are unanimously and categorically against any form of birth control, except perhaps the "calendar method". That doesn't mean that they don't usebirth control in a classic "Do as I say, not as I do" move, but vocal resistance seems pretty consistent across Catholics in Ottawa.


That's exactly why, when I do ask girls about birth control, I ask them if they have used or currently use birth control rather than whether they feel using birth control is moral or immoral.
 
2014-01-16 04:06:04 PM
Anti-Christian sentiment? Nah, nothing to see here, we're all above that sort of thing.
 
2014-01-16 04:09:40 PM

ThreadSinger: Your experience might be different from mine, but I was raised Catholic and I have maintained a number of friendships with practicing Catholic friends, and they are unanimously and categorically against any form of birth control, except perhaps the "calendar method". That doesn't mean that they don't usebirth control in a classic "Do as I say, not as I do" move, but vocal resistance seems pretty consistent across Catholics in Ottawa.


There's a difference between TALKING about it and actually doing it.
 
2014-01-16 04:20:49 PM

nmrsnr: FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control


Actually it's not quite the straightforward. Back during Vatican II John XXIII put together a commission to study the issue of birth control. A few years later they had their conclusion, a majority of the commission said it was not contrary to Catholic teaching. Sadly by that point Paul VI was Pope and well he decided to toss aside what the commission found and declare that it is contrary.
 
2014-01-16 04:24:32 PM
Dunno about that. Catholics and a subset of Evangelical Protestants have been against birth control all along - they just didn't think they could get away with doing anything about it until recently. If they ever thought there was a chance of abolishing no-fault divorce, you'd see 'em coming out of the woodwork for that too.

The Puritan faction in American politics never truly gives up on  any front of the culture war, they just focus their effort on whatever battle they think is most winnable at the moment.
 
2014-01-16 04:25:59 PM

THX 1138: jigger: Then what was Griswold v. Connecticut all about in the 60s?

It was about Chevy Chase's right to go on vacation with his family.


I'd sue too if someone sent me to Connecticut on vacation.
 
2014-01-16 04:27:08 PM

WhyteRaven74: nmrsnr: FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control

Actually it's not quite the straightforward. Back during Vatican II John XXIII put together a commission to study the issue of birth control. A few years later they had their conclusion, a majority of the commission said it was not contrary to Catholic teaching. Sadly by that point Paul VI was Pope and well he decided to toss aside what the commission found and declare that it is contrary.


To clarify, it wasn't just a majority of the Pontifical Commission on Birth Control that endorsed it as not contrary to Catholic doctrine. 65 of the 72 members of the commission said that using birth control should be seen as basically the same as using periodic abstinence. The other seven (all theologians mind you) basically said that endorsing birth control in 1968 would mean God misled several previous Popes. The lack of unanimity is what Paul VI said led to continuing the official disapproval.
 
2014-01-16 04:28:49 PM
Roe versus wade wasn't a big deal to the evangelicals until the GOP wanted to make in roads on the catholics. Then they did an about turn and started teaching it in the churches. All of a sudden it was a huge deal and the derp began.
 
2014-01-16 04:28:53 PM
It takes a special form of idiot to believe that something beneficial is immoral, and then do that beneficial thing anyway, and then to feel bad about it. farking idiots, the lot of 'em.
 
2014-01-16 04:28:56 PM

DarwiOdrade: nmrsnr: Myth: the politically involved evangelical Christians that form the base of the GOP have always been opposed to birth control. Reality: Christians they started opposing birth control on July 19, 2011 Christians.

FTFY subby. Catholics have always been anti-birth control, hence the "every sperm is sacred" song.

More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.


It's really the Catholics that are anti birth control and their fellow Christians are showing solidarity for religious beliefs. I agree, many people that call themselves Catholics do not follow the churches teachings. That makes them a  "bad" Catholic. ( me). Seriously, you shouldn't call yourself something if you don't do it.
 
2014-01-16 04:30:35 PM

cptjeff: d23: HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.

Every Catholic girl I ever dated is VERY pro-birth control.

Thank Gawd for that.

Catholic women do use birth control at a lower rate than the general public. Among the general public, 99% of sexually mature women have used birth control. Among Catholic women, that number drops to 98%.


I'm actually kinda curious to see a breakdown of the situations in which both groups had used birth control.  While the Church might not see a difference between using contraception to prevent having an inconvenient kid out of wedlock versus to be responsible while on a dangerous medical treatment, I think a lot of individual Catholics would, and it's not unusual for a woman to have at least one period in her life when a doctor tells her to absolutely not get pregnant.

\Not that this distinction matters to the larger point: the clergy is absurdly out of touch with the laity on this front.  Maybe something about a priesthood that doesn't have to worry about such issues...
\\I was just at a Catholic funeral, and at the lunch afterwards, the priest randomly came up and told my toddler nephew repeatedly that he could have four cookies.  First of all, no, no he can't, and telling him so will just make him not want to eat anything else, and second of all, there actually were no cookies.  Thanks, Father.  You clearly have a lot of experience dealing with kids.
 
2014-01-16 04:32:00 PM
Abstinence-only education was a thing when I was getting sex ed courses in the early '90s, so... no.
 
2014-01-16 04:35:32 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: cptjeff: d23: HotWingConspiracy: Grungehamster: For Catholics it's been ongoing opposition.

That's debatable. It's really only conservative bishops that are crying about it. Even Catholic Health Services is fine with it.

Every Catholic girl I ever dated is VERY pro-birth control.

Thank Gawd for that.

Catholic women do use birth control at a lower rate than the general public. Among the general public, 99% of sexually mature women have used birth control. Among Catholic women, that number drops to 98%.

I'm actually kinda curious to see a breakdown of the situations in which both groups had used birth control.  While the Church might not see a difference between using contraception to prevent having an inconvenient kid out of wedlock versus to be responsible while on a dangerous medical treatment, I think a lot of individual Catholics would, and it's not unusual for a woman to have at least one period in her life when a doctor tells her to absolutely not get pregnant.

\Not that this distinction matters to the larger point: the clergy is absurdly out of touch with the laity on this front.  Maybe something about a priesthood that doesn't have to worry about such issues...
\\I was just at a Catholic funeral, and at the lunch afterwards, the priest randomly came up and told my toddler nephew repeatedly that he could have four cookies.  First of all, no, no he can't, and telling him so will just make him not want to eat anything else, and second of all, there actually were no cookies.  Thanks, Father.  You clearly have a lot of experience dealing with kids.


Of course he has experience with kids. He's a priest, isn't he?

/Just not the kind of experience you'd like
 
2014-01-16 04:39:39 PM

grumpfuff: ThreadSinger: Your experience might be different from mine, but I was raised Catholic and I have maintained a number of friendships with practicing Catholic friends, and they are unanimously and categorically against any form of birth control, except perhaps the "calendar method". That doesn't mean that they don't usebirth control in a classic "Do as I say, not as I do" move, but vocal resistance seems pretty consistent across Catholics in Ottawa.

Well, point of note, I live in NJ, and most Catholics I know are from here or NY. So I probably know the most liberal of liberal Catholics.


Fair enough. Just relaying what I know since I'm often suspicious that when people say "I know what group X thinks", they're more informed by "popular" opinion, or a few choice encounters, then actually living the culture. :)
 
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