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(Yahoo)   After Freedom Industries' chemicals made half the state's water completely unusable, WV regulators decide it's probably good idea to do a few inspections at ALL their facilties, and shockingly, find tons of other chemical storage violations   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 44
    More: Obvious, Freedom Industries, chemical accident, storage violation, West Virginia, nitrous oxide, Tom Aluise, chemicals  
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5067 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 12:28 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-01-16 12:24:10 PM  
6 votes:
So the free market isn't policing itself? well this is a shocker, who could have ever predicted that
2014-01-16 10:34:52 AM  
5 votes:
Are you saying that regulation and enforcement is essential to safe drinking water? THE HELL YOU SAY
2014-01-16 12:42:21 PM  
4 votes:
Also maybe not the brightest idea to put giant storage tanks of toxic chemicals right next to the water, upstream from where people get their drinking water.
2014-01-16 12:39:07 PM  
4 votes:

To The Escape Zeppelin!: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.


Money! It's a gas.
2014-01-16 12:36:26 PM  
4 votes:
'The HELL with you government regulating my freedom!'

-Disaster strikes-

'Why the HELL didn't the government regulate to stop this from happening!?'
2014-01-16 12:15:31 PM  
4 votes:
Hopefully the chemical companies will successfully lobby for a new tax to appear on each resident's water bill so the enormously dire consequences of these job-killing regulations can be at least somewhat deflected.
2014-01-16 10:18:36 AM  
4 votes:
2014-01-16 01:06:07 PM  
3 votes:
Are we auditing one business or doing spot checks for everyone?

I'm still holding the opinion here that this was less negligence than just a black swan event; but at this point it looks like, yes, there's plenty of negligent regulatory violations.  Now the next question:  Is everybody doing it?  Because if so, yes, everybody's guilty and needs to straighten this shiat out pronto; but also it's fairly clear that these sorts of shortcuts and slipshod operations are reasonably safe--reasonable enough for someone to actually believe it's fine, even if it's not by-the-book.

I don't think it's a good strategy to only audit the business that dropped the ball.  When one of them screws up, we need to look around and see if their mistakes are industry standard practice.
2014-01-16 12:57:02 PM  
3 votes:
www.wvpolicy.org
2014-01-16 12:40:17 PM  
3 votes:
Stay tuned for 'Freedom Industries moves operations to Mississippi' next fiscal year.
2014-01-16 12:38:17 PM  
3 votes:
"Freedom" means polluting our air, land, and water; as well as spending our money away at companies that just hoard cash and don't hire anyone, ask for increased productivity from current employers, and leave wages stagnant or ask for wage and benefit concessions from Unions (or just takes them from current employees, blaming the "economy" or "marketplace"). I think we need to push for a new freedom, one that isn't defined by doublespeak and buzz words. A freedom that allows us to live comfortably, happy, and not threatened with the day to day fears of job termination, poverty, and failing health.
2014-01-16 12:35:36 PM  
3 votes:
When your liver and kidneys hang like a centenarian's tackle, you can thank your stars you lived in God's Country, West Virginia. And praise God that you were free to drink poisoned water and then defend the people who poisoned you.
2014-01-16 12:30:32 PM  
3 votes:
oh, and fark you GOPers, it's this kinda shiat you bring to the nation.
2014-01-16 10:27:20 AM  
3 votes:
A business utopia not unlike Texas in some respects
2014-01-16 03:31:43 PM  
2 votes:

exPFCWintergreen: the money is in the banana stand: With a company dealing with chemicals, shouldn't there be routine inspections so this sort of thing could be either mitigated or stopped from occurring at all? How the fark did it get this far? Back when we had a full-time shop, we had OSHA inspections all the time to make sure that our emissions, fans, storage, and disposal/recycling was being done correctly. We aren't a very large company, and the "chemicals" that we were dealing with were mostly lacquers for refinishing, epoxies, spray booths, and paints. How the fark does a large company like that who deals specifically with hazardous chemicals NOT have routine inspections?

Had some of the same questions myself, the systemic amount of overlap in compliance failure related to several different state and federal regulatory agencies for an incident like this to happen is rather surprising. Part of it may be that the company itself is just a middleman, only being a waypoint between the chemical manufacturers and coal refiners. Ideally, a company like this shouldn't exist today, having been outmodded by digital-era logistics and the realization that storing huge amounts of potentially hazardous chemicals in any one place is a bad idea (as this and many other similar incidents have painfully demonstrated). Although if a particular chemical has only limited applications and is only manufactured in batches by one or two companies (which this may be), storage of some sort may be unavoidable (but there are many better alternatives than using one big tank). A company only dealing with the transfer of chemicals could likely operate normally without any employee having any specific chemical-related expertise or experience (and may be able to operate more easily in a regulatory gray-area). In such a case, basic steps like OSHA chemical safety training and EPA waste disposal and containment compliance which should come second nature to anyone who has worked with chemicals weren't there (a cul ...


I'd suggest that this is by design to limit the liability of the other entities.  If those tanks belonged to one of the big player ... either the manufacturer or the coal company, they'd have to maintain it to limit the risk of a spill and thus their liability.  That's expensive.  Better to create a small company for the sole purpose of owning this facility with no other resources.  If something happens, that little company is screwed, but there's nothing important there. "Freedom Industries" is corporate tongue-in-cheek for freedom from liability.
2014-01-16 01:45:23 PM  
2 votes:
I hate to say it but if this happened in China they would have already shot the owners in the head for being such jackasses.  And in this case I'd be totally cool with that.
2014-01-16 01:12:33 PM  
2 votes:
There's no way that a company that calls itself "Freedom Industries" isn't sleazy as hell.
2014-01-16 01:01:49 PM  
2 votes:

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


This is America, son. Odds are precisely zero. Jail is for people who commit poor-people crimes.
2014-01-16 12:56:23 PM  
2 votes:
I can't believe a company run by a cokehead and failed tavern owner would violate rules.
2014-01-16 12:50:41 PM  
2 votes:
Freedom Industries: Dedicated to setting your chemicals free
2014-01-16 12:43:43 PM  
2 votes:

Donnchadha: See? This is why government regulation and oversight is a terrible thing. There were absolutely ZERO reported safety violations when nobody was going around looking for them -- and now that they are, it's through the farking roof!



FOX NEWS BULLETIN: Environmental Safety violations up 167% under Obama.

FOX NEWS VIEWER: Dang that Obummer!
2014-01-16 12:42:12 PM  
2 votes:

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


Someone poor, maybe. Not anyone rich.
2014-01-16 12:34:11 PM  
2 votes:
Consumers will just buy their industrial coal from companies with safer records, ensuing capitalism works better than regulations.
2014-01-16 12:21:24 PM  
2 votes:
See? This is why government regulation and oversight is a terrible thing. There were absolutely ZERO reported safety violations when nobody was going around looking for them -- and now that they are, it's through the farking roof!
2014-01-16 12:17:23 PM  
2 votes:
Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?
2014-01-16 06:08:26 PM  
1 votes:

GBB: MechaPyx: So how bad would you say this spill is? What's the twinkie rating on this?

[i.imgur.com image 300x168]

Imagine if this Twinkie represented a typical glass of water.  The creme filling would represent the amount of deadly chemicals in the water.


I'm sure you'd be willing to demonstrate how harmless that is with just a wee sip. No bigger than an eye droper full.
2014-01-16 03:14:13 PM  
1 votes:
Still relevant

"The business of the American people is business."

Because we are too stupid to learn from our mistakes.
2014-01-16 03:00:05 PM  
1 votes:

August11: Government protecting citizens from a corporation??? NEVAR


It's government protecting industry from citizens.
2014-01-16 02:35:46 PM  
1 votes:

FUND AND ENFORCE THE GODDAMN REGULATIONS ALREADY!

2014-01-16 01:35:58 PM  
1 votes:
According to WV Environmental Health inspectors, first, they have no authority to inspect chemical storage tanks, unless the chemicals are actually produced on the site they're stored. Second, their budget has been cut so much they haven't got anywhere close to the # of inspectors they really need, and third, the chemical that was leaked isn't on their list of 'hazardous' substances so it may not have been checked even had they had the authority to inspect storage tanks.

Oh, and the company didn't even have a hazardous spill response plan for an event like this, even though they knew the tanks were over 60 years old and could start leaking at any moment.

Hmm, I wonder who writes the regulations and funds the agency's inspection budget? I'd imagine it's their state legislature. I wonder what party controls WV's legislature...?
2014-01-16 01:34:49 PM  
1 votes:
1) If it's cheaper to pay the fines than fix the violations, that will happen.
2) If it's cheaper to bribe the inspectors than fix it or pay the fine AND the inspectors can be bribed without getting caught, that will happen.
3) If you deliberately shut down the inspections because of budget cuts, don't be surprised when everyone starts doing the things you tried to ban and cost you more money in fines than you save by shutting down the inspectors.  (Looking at you, MI pesticide inspectors).
2014-01-16 01:15:16 PM  
1 votes:
This is why ALL water should be privatized. The free market would prevent this. People would only buy from companies that provide the good stuff.

That and tax cuts.
2014-01-16 01:11:35 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Are you saying that regulation and enforcement is essential to safe drinking water? THE HELL YOU SAY


I have been assured by top Libertarians that the EPA and other governmental regulation of the environment are completely necessary.

TOP LIBERTARIANS.

/ This is what they actually believe
2014-01-16 01:02:05 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


I am sure there is some sort of "industry disparagement" law that can be perverted to send at least one critic of the company to jail, at least overnight.
2014-01-16 01:01:06 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


LOL
2014-01-16 12:56:51 PM  
1 votes:
Surprise, surprise, surprise.
2014-01-16 12:53:15 PM  
1 votes:
Almost sewerage West Virgina,
Kanawha River suddenly turned purple
Life is short here,
Shorter now for me,
Oh my god I'm thirsty,
And can't now make pee!
2014-01-16 12:48:24 PM  
1 votes:

Donnchadha: See? This is why government regulation and oversight is a terrible thing. There were absolutely ZERO reported safety violations when nobody was going around looking for them -- and now that they are, it's through the farking roof!


I didn't have ANY viruses on my PC until I installed this damn antivirus!
2014-01-16 12:44:09 PM  
1 votes:

Crewmannumber6: Stay tuned for 'Freedom Industries moves operations to Mississippi' next fiscal year.


They're a coal mining company, so it would be Wyoming or Texas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal_mines_in_the_United_States
2014-01-16 12:36:46 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.
2014-01-16 12:35:52 PM  
1 votes:
Did anyone else notice that they might be moving their glycerin to Nitro?  Might want to think that one through again...
2014-01-16 12:34:29 PM  
1 votes:
cameroncrazy1984:

Weaver95:

Pocket Ninja:


Aw, man. I love you, guys!

Orange 2, Cyan 2, and Yellow 2, respectively.
2014-01-16 12:33:45 PM  
1 votes:
Freedom Industries? Cue the crying bald eagle gif.
2014-01-16 12:33:11 PM  
1 votes:
Government protecting citizens from a corporation??? NEVAR
 
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