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(Yahoo)   After Freedom Industries' chemicals made half the state's water completely unusable, WV regulators decide it's probably good idea to do a few inspections at ALL their facilties, and shockingly, find tons of other chemical storage violations   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 124
    More: Obvious, Freedom Industries, chemical accident, storage violation, West Virginia, nitrous oxide, Tom Aluise, chemicals  
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5061 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 12:28 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



124 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-16 10:18:36 AM
 
2014-01-16 10:27:20 AM
A business utopia not unlike Texas in some respects
 
2014-01-16 10:34:52 AM
Are you saying that regulation and enforcement is essential to safe drinking water? THE HELL YOU SAY
 
2014-01-16 11:17:58 AM
But it's freedom pollution! Honest Americans and true patriots will drink their freedom water and not complain about it all because they are REAL MEN gotdamn it! You can take your hippie commie clean water bullshiat if you want but that's the wimpy way out.
 
2014-01-16 12:15:31 PM
Hopefully the chemical companies will successfully lobby for a new tax to appear on each resident's water bill so the enormously dire consequences of these job-killing regulations can be at least somewhat deflected.
 
2014-01-16 12:17:23 PM
Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?
 
2014-01-16 12:21:24 PM
See? This is why government regulation and oversight is a terrible thing. There were absolutely ZERO reported safety violations when nobody was going around looking for them -- and now that they are, it's through the farking roof!
 
2014-01-16 12:24:10 PM
So the free market isn't policing itself? well this is a shocker, who could have ever predicted that
 
2014-01-16 12:30:32 PM
oh, and fark you GOPers, it's this kinda shiat you bring to the nation.
 
2014-01-16 12:30:45 PM
People will just buy their clean water from the competitors
 
2014-01-16 12:32:28 PM
Why does WVA now hate capitalism?
//Freedom means free to pollute
 
2014-01-16 12:33:11 PM
Government protecting citizens from a corporation??? NEVAR
 
2014-01-16 12:33:45 PM
Freedom Industries? Cue the crying bald eagle gif.
 
2014-01-16 12:34:11 PM
Consumers will just buy their industrial coal from companies with safer records, ensuing capitalism works better than regulations.
 
2014-01-16 12:34:29 PM
cameroncrazy1984:

Weaver95:

Pocket Ninja:


Aw, man. I love you, guys!

Orange 2, Cyan 2, and Yellow 2, respectively.
 
2014-01-16 12:35:20 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-16 12:35:26 PM
I am suprised the company isnt sending bills to everyone for using their chemicals.
 
2014-01-16 12:35:26 PM
You'd think Obama would have to some to put a stop to this instead of golfing in Hawaii. As usual, the libs blue it.
 
2014-01-16 12:35:36 PM
When your liver and kidneys hang like a centenarian's tackle, you can thank your stars you lived in God's Country, West Virginia. And praise God that you were free to drink poisoned water and then defend the people who poisoned you.
 
2014-01-16 12:35:52 PM
Did anyone else notice that they might be moving their glycerin to Nitro?  Might want to think that one through again...
 
2014-01-16 12:36:26 PM
'The HELL with you government regulating my freedom!'

-Disaster strikes-

'Why the HELL didn't the government regulate to stop this from happening!?'
 
2014-01-16 12:36:46 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.
 
2014-01-16 12:38:17 PM
"Freedom" means polluting our air, land, and water; as well as spending our money away at companies that just hoard cash and don't hire anyone, ask for increased productivity from current employers, and leave wages stagnant or ask for wage and benefit concessions from Unions (or just takes them from current employees, blaming the "economy" or "marketplace"). I think we need to push for a new freedom, one that isn't defined by doublespeak and buzz words. A freedom that allows us to live comfortably, happy, and not threatened with the day to day fears of job termination, poverty, and failing health.
 
2014-01-16 12:38:34 PM
Of course the gummermint regalatin libs are going after Freedom Industries.
 
2014-01-16 12:39:07 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.


Money! It's a gas.
 
2014-01-16 12:40:17 PM
Stay tuned for 'Freedom Industries moves operations to Mississippi' next fiscal year.
 
2014-01-16 12:42:12 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


Someone poor, maybe. Not anyone rich.
 
2014-01-16 12:42:21 PM
Also maybe not the brightest idea to put giant storage tanks of toxic chemicals right next to the water, upstream from where people get their drinking water.
 
2014-01-16 12:43:43 PM

Donnchadha: See? This is why government regulation and oversight is a terrible thing. There were absolutely ZERO reported safety violations when nobody was going around looking for them -- and now that they are, it's through the farking roof!



FOX NEWS BULLETIN: Environmental Safety violations up 167% under Obama.

FOX NEWS VIEWER: Dang that Obummer!
 
2014-01-16 12:44:09 PM

Crewmannumber6: Stay tuned for 'Freedom Industries moves operations to Mississippi' next fiscal year.


They're a coal mining company, so it would be Wyoming or Texas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_coal_mines_in_the_United_States
 
2014-01-16 12:44:15 PM

Pocket Ninja: Hopefully the chemical companies will successfully lobby for a new tax to appear on each resident's water bill so the enormously dire consequences of these job-killing regulations can be at least somewhat deflected.


I was wondering what that, "because fark you that's why" surcharge on my bill was all about.
 
2014-01-16 12:48:24 PM

Donnchadha: See? This is why government regulation and oversight is a terrible thing. There were absolutely ZERO reported safety violations when nobody was going around looking for them -- and now that they are, it's through the farking roof!


I didn't have ANY viruses on my PC until I installed this damn antivirus!
 
2014-01-16 12:49:27 PM
I blame the media for this. If only they weren't making such a big deal out of it, nobody would ever have known and therefore it would not have actually happened.

=Smidge=
 
2014-01-16 12:50:41 PM
Freedom Industries: Dedicated to setting your chemicals free
 
2014-01-16 12:53:15 PM
Almost sewerage West Virgina,
Kanawha River suddenly turned purple
Life is short here,
Shorter now for me,
Oh my god I'm thirsty,
And can't now make pee!
 
2014-01-16 12:53:17 PM
When the honor system stop working!?!?!
 
2014-01-16 12:53:32 PM
choosepp.net
 
2014-01-16 12:55:32 PM

Pocket Ninja: Hopefully the chemical companies will successfully lobby for a new tax to appear on each resident's water bill so the enormously dire consequences of these job-killing regulations can be at least somewhat deflected.



Sorry, PN, but not even you could out-Poe Big Coal and its affiliated industries in Appalachia.

There's no costs to offset or pass along.  Regulations?  Ignore 'em.  Fines?  Just have a local judge reduce them later, and then for the rest you simply don't bother to pay it.  After all, what are the local yokels going to do about it?  Close down some of the only revenue sources in the local economy?
 
2014-01-16 12:56:23 PM
I can't believe a company run by a cokehead and failed tavern owner would violate rules.
 
2014-01-16 12:56:51 PM
Surprise, surprise, surprise.
 
2014-01-16 12:57:02 PM
www.wvpolicy.org
 
2014-01-16 12:57:21 PM

Wyalt Derp: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

Someone poor, maybe. Not anyone rich.


Obviously it will be the poors that stole and drank all those Freedom Chemicals without paying for them.
 
2014-01-16 01:01:06 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


LOL
 
2014-01-16 01:01:49 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


This is America, son. Odds are precisely zero. Jail is for people who commit poor-people crimes.
 
2014-01-16 01:02:05 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


I am sure there is some sort of "industry disparagement" law that can be perverted to send at least one critic of the company to jail, at least overnight.
 
2014-01-16 01:06:07 PM
Are we auditing one business or doing spot checks for everyone?

I'm still holding the opinion here that this was less negligence than just a black swan event; but at this point it looks like, yes, there's plenty of negligent regulatory violations.  Now the next question:  Is everybody doing it?  Because if so, yes, everybody's guilty and needs to straighten this shiat out pronto; but also it's fairly clear that these sorts of shortcuts and slipshod operations are reasonably safe--reasonable enough for someone to actually believe it's fine, even if it's not by-the-book.

I don't think it's a good strategy to only audit the business that dropped the ball.  When one of them screws up, we need to look around and see if their mistakes are industry standard practice.
 
2014-01-16 01:06:49 PM
Well, maybe if there weren't so many regulations on their business they'd be able to make enough money to afford proper chemical storage.
 
2014-01-16 01:09:44 PM

tlars699: To The Escape Zeppelin!: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.

Money! It's a gas.


We won't see much cleanup money out of them for this.  They'll turn out to be some shell company with zero resources beyond their inventory & real estate which will promptly declare bankruptcy.
 
2014-01-16 01:11:35 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Are you saying that regulation and enforcement is essential to safe drinking water? THE HELL YOU SAY


I have been assured by top Libertarians that the EPA and other governmental regulation of the environment are completely necessary.

TOP LIBERTARIANS.

/ This is what they actually believe
 
2014-01-16 01:12:33 PM
There's no way that a company that calls itself "Freedom Industries" isn't sleazy as hell.
 
2014-01-16 01:12:50 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


I doubt anyone will see prison time. All the wrong doing here is by rich white business men.

However, this is probably a death blow for the company. Now that a second site with leaks has been found they are going to get the class IV anal probe they deserve.
 
2014-01-16 01:13:11 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Consumers will just buy their industrial coal from companies with safer records, ensuing capitalism works better than regulations.


Dammit! You broke my sarcasm detector and I don't get out of work till 6 and the sarcasm detector store closes at 5:00.
 
2014-01-16 01:15:16 PM
This is why ALL water should be privatized. The free market would prevent this. People would only buy from companies that provide the good stuff.

That and tax cuts.
 
2014-01-16 01:17:35 PM

tlars699: cameroncrazy1984:

Weaver95:

Pocket Ninja:

Aw, man. I love you, guys!

Orange 2, Cyan 2, and Yellow 2, respectively.


When Cameron marks you 2, it's 'cause he thinks you're the poo.
 
2014-01-16 01:19:19 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


In West Virgina?  Where when the worst Corporate citizen in America, Massey Energy was facing an unfavorable outcome in a lawsuit, it's CEO basically opened his checkbook and more or less bought a seat on the WV Supreme Court for a fishing buddy?
 
2014-01-16 01:20:17 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


I think the odds of executive assassination are probably better at this point.
 
2014-01-16 01:21:33 PM

NeverDrunk23: 'The HELL with you government regulating my freedom!'

-Disaster strikes-

'Why the HELL didn't the government regulate to stop this from happening!?'


You forgot:
"Where the HELL is my check from the government to fix everything back to the way it was"?
 
2014-01-16 01:24:27 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.


RIGHT. Forget the b*stards who were breaking the law. The ones charged with trying to keep them from breaking the law ought to be jailed!

/not against investigating lax enforcement. just wondering why we'd give a pass to the jerks who make it needful to have "don't be a jerk" regulations present and enforced.
 
2014-01-16 01:26:06 PM

tripleseven: Donnchadha: See? This is why government regulation and oversight is a terrible thing. There were absolutely ZERO reported safety violations when nobody was going around looking for them -- and now that they are, it's through the farking roof!

I didn't have ANY viruses on my PC until I installed this damn antivirus!


Oh noes! A Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal! Quick, wrap this towel around your head!
 
2014-01-16 01:27:38 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.


Well, when government is small enough to drown in a bathtub, it has a harder time making it out to all those job-sites and storage tanks in a timely manner.  Now you COULD argue that since these companies are making lots of money from this activity perhaps they should pay for the costs of ensuring they are doing it in a safe manner, maybe by a special tax on their profits.  But if you did that you;d be a dirty socialist communist who hates America and jobs
 
2014-01-16 01:28:22 PM
imageshack.com
 
2014-01-16 01:28:54 PM
This is (and I say this ironically) great news.  Finding problems is step one to FIXING problems. 

I would go so far as to say that had they inspected their facilities since 1991, this problem would have been less likely.
 
2014-01-16 01:29:26 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years.


Yep.

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.


Double yep.

brimed03: RIGHT. Forget the b*stards who were breaking the law. The ones charged with trying to keep them from breaking the law ought to be jailed!


Who said that?
 
2014-01-16 01:32:14 PM

Magorn: Well, when government is small enough to drown in a bathtub, it has a harder time making it out to all those job-sites and storage tanks in a timely manner.


You'd think that in 10 years someone might be able to at least stop in and say hello. West Virginia ain't that big a place.
 
2014-01-16 01:32:47 PM

brimed03: tlars699: cameroncrazy1984:

Weaver95:

Pocket Ninja:

Aw, man. I love you, guys!

Orange 2, Cyan 2, and Yellow 2, respectively.

When Cameron marks you 2, it's 'cause he thinks you're the poo.


He can be a very angry fellow, can't he? That's why he's orange. Pocket Ninja is yellow, because he always makes me smile. And Weaver is just cool.
 
2014-01-16 01:33:19 PM
With a company dealing with chemicals, shouldn't there be routine inspections so this sort of thing could be either mitigated or stopped from occurring at all? How the fark did it get this far? Back when we had a full-time shop, we had OSHA inspections all the time to make sure that our emissions, fans, storage, and disposal/recycling was being done correctly. We aren't a very large company, and the "chemicals" that we were dealing with were mostly lacquers for refinishing, epoxies, spray booths, and paints. How the fark does a large company like that who deals specifically with hazardous chemicals NOT have routine inspections?
 
2014-01-16 01:34:49 PM
1) If it's cheaper to pay the fines than fix the violations, that will happen.
2) If it's cheaper to bribe the inspectors than fix it or pay the fine AND the inspectors can be bribed without getting caught, that will happen.
3) If you deliberately shut down the inspections because of budget cuts, don't be surprised when everyone starts doing the things you tried to ban and cost you more money in fines than you save by shutting down the inspectors.  (Looking at you, MI pesticide inspectors).
 
2014-01-16 01:35:58 PM
According to WV Environmental Health inspectors, first, they have no authority to inspect chemical storage tanks, unless the chemicals are actually produced on the site they're stored. Second, their budget has been cut so much they haven't got anywhere close to the # of inspectors they really need, and third, the chemical that was leaked isn't on their list of 'hazardous' substances so it may not have been checked even had they had the authority to inspect storage tanks.

Oh, and the company didn't even have a hazardous spill response plan for an event like this, even though they knew the tanks were over 60 years old and could start leaking at any moment.

Hmm, I wonder who writes the regulations and funds the agency's inspection budget? I'd imagine it's their state legislature. I wonder what party controls WV's legislature...?
 
2014-01-16 01:36:20 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: A business utopia not unlike Texas in some respects


I'm pretty sure that' where the companies the moved out of WV went off to
 
2014-01-16 01:36:46 PM
Did anyone ever go to jail over that little chemical plant assplosion in TX?
 
2014-01-16 01:37:08 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Magorn: Well, when government is small enough to drown in a bathtub, it has a harder time making it out to all those job-sites and storage tanks in a timely manner.

You'd think that in 10 years someone might be able to at least stop in and say hello. West Virginia ain't that big a place.


How are they going to get there? Driving? In dem dere hills?! Are you nuts!?!!

That being said, any word on how the Everdeens are coping?
 
2014-01-16 01:39:35 PM
Shouldnt we also be asking the EPA and whatever other agencies that were supposed to be inspecting these places why they were not being inspected?
 
2014-01-16 01:40:22 PM
I sure do love me some classic derpocrat outrage... "Our laws aren't being enforced!  We need more laws to fix that!"
 
2014-01-16 01:41:03 PM

JerkyMeat: oh, and fark you GOPers Libertarians, it's this kinda shiat you bring to the nation.

 
2014-01-16 01:42:57 PM

SpectroBoy: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

I doubt anyone will see prison time. All the wrong doing here is by rich white business men.

However, this is probably a death blow for the company. Now that a second site with leaks has been found they are going to get the class IV anal probe they deserve.


no wrongdoing will provably be found to have come from at least the upper 2 levels of management.
 
2014-01-16 01:44:58 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Of course the gummermint regalatin libs are going after Freedom Industries.


And the FOX-News people will attack them for going after the "job creators".
 
2014-01-16 01:45:23 PM
I hate to say it but if this happened in China they would have already shot the owners in the head for being such jackasses.  And in this case I'd be totally cool with that.
 
2014-01-16 01:46:05 PM

groppet: Shouldnt we also be asking the EPA and whatever other agencies that were supposed to be inspecting these places why they were not being inspected?


Places like West Virginia use every loophole and local politician they can to avoid that stuff. It's a conservative Mecca, you know.
 
2014-01-16 01:47:38 PM
So then really, what we have here is a failure of gov't to enforce the many rules and regulations on the book. Sounds about right.
 
2014-01-16 01:49:06 PM

jaybeezey: So then really, what we have here is a failure of gov't to enforce the many rules and regulations on the book. Sounds about right.


So you saying that excuses the business that broke those rules?
 
2014-01-16 01:49:26 PM

jaybeezey: So then really, what we have here is a failure of gov't to enforce the many rules and regulations on the book. Sounds about right.


hehe, that's the right-wing spin already! It's not the fault of the corporation that it ruined the drinking water in nine counties! The government should have been doing something about it!

...hey wait...
 
2014-01-16 01:49:47 PM
What's the outlook for the water? I mean, I don't know much about this stuff, but how will the cleanup work, and will the water ever be safe to drink again? Or is this a disaster of generational proportions?
 
2014-01-16 01:51:51 PM

Cyclometh: What's the outlook for the water? I mean, I don't know much about this stuff, but how will the cleanup work, and will the water ever be safe to drink again? Or is this a disaster of generational proportions?


I was an environmental scientist in a former life but I've never been to West Virginia. But it's a weird little chemical that no one really knows much about, it's in the soil. I don't know about its water solubility which would be a big factor.

All I know is I'd be buying bottled water if I was there for the foreseeable future.
 
2014-01-16 01:52:04 PM

Cyclometh: What's the outlook for the water? I mean, I don't know much about this stuff, but how will the cleanup work, and will the water ever be safe to drink again? Or is this a disaster of generational proportions?


From what I understand the stuff is very water soluble and subject to microbial action.  So it will dilute & degrade and not be a long term issue.
 
2014-01-16 01:54:57 PM

Lamberts Ho Man: Cyclometh: What's the outlook for the water? I mean, I don't know much about this stuff, but how will the cleanup work, and will the water ever be safe to drink again? Or is this a disaster of generational proportions?

From what I understand the stuff is very water soluble and subject to microbial action.  So it will dilute & degrade and not be a long term issue.


Not an environmental scientist ... heard it on a news report.
 
2014-01-16 01:57:57 PM
Fark. I was always under the impression that there have always been regulatory agencies going around to these chemical storage/production facilities doing random inspections just like they do with grain operations and food production/storage facilities. Guess I was wrong.
 
2014-01-16 01:59:32 PM

Itstoearly: I sure do love me some classic derpocrat outrage... "Our laws aren't being enforced!  We need more laws to fix that!"


Obvious troll is a troll, but I'll bite... I'm pretty sure all people are asking for the common sense environmental regulations actually be enforced and complied. In all honesty, having all the environmental regulations brings more jobs to the industry with all the people doing the checks and balances. But NOO!!!!! Government regulation is bad and it kills jobs...right.... Do you use a spoon or fork to eat all that derp? Pretty please, whatever you do, don't choke on it.
 
2014-01-16 02:05:12 PM

Itstoearly: I sure do love me some classic derpocrat outrage... "Our laws aren't being enforced!  We need more laws to fix that!"


Our laws aren;t being enforced we need More Funding to enforce them, preferably by raising taxes on the people making money off the activity that needs inspecting

do try to keep up
 
2014-01-16 02:13:24 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-16 02:17:53 PM

lilbjorn: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 236x240]


No no no. It was this dude:
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-01-16 02:18:12 PM
I, for one, am for the government getting out of the way...of the lynch mob forming to rush in and hang the owners from nearest, strong tree branch.
 
2014-01-16 02:29:03 PM

SpectroBoy: This is why ALL water should be privatized. The free market would prevent this. People would only buy from companies that provide the good stuff.


No, clearly the answer is RAISES FOR EVERYONE!

upload.wikimedia.org

They've got top people on this. TOP.  PEOPLE.
 
2014-01-16 02:31:47 PM
I'm totally outraged at this affront to the 'Merican economy. How are we supposed to compete with the likes of China if we hogtie ourselves with arbitrary environmental restrictions?

Christ, there's still an article on the main page about how much progress they've made on enriching the air in Beijing. They're peaking at 671 micrograms per cubic meter and we can't even come -close- to that anymore. They're getting so thoroughly saturated in natural resources they're going to be able to mine the atmosphere soon, then we'll really start falling behind!
 
2014-01-16 02:32:34 PM
I'm sure they were going to take car of it.  Business's are great at self regulation.
 
2014-01-16 02:35:46 PM

FUND AND ENFORCE THE GODDAMN REGULATIONS ALREADY!

 
GBB
2014-01-16 02:36:13 PM
Which way does shiat roll, again?   Is it UPhill?
 
2014-01-16 02:37:10 PM

Magorn: Itstoearly: I sure do love me some classic derpocrat outrage... "Our laws aren't being enforced!  We need more laws to fix that!"

Our laws aren;t being enforced we need More Funding to enforce them, preferably by raising taxes on the people making money off the activity that needs inspecting

do try to keep up


Oh noes!

Think of those poor stockholders, missing out on their dividends!
They'll have to make do with hanging on to their Benzes and Beemers for a year before trading them in.
Not sure if they can deal with such hardships.

A tiny violin plays.
 
2014-01-16 02:41:38 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


Before or after the Congress issues a formal apology?
 
2014-01-16 03:00:05 PM

August11: Government protecting citizens from a corporation??? NEVAR


It's government protecting industry from citizens.
 
2014-01-16 03:01:28 PM

the money is in the banana stand: With a company dealing with chemicals, shouldn't there be routine inspections so this sort of thing could be either mitigated or stopped from occurring at all? How the fark did it get this far? Back when we had a full-time shop, we had OSHA inspections all the time to make sure that our emissions, fans, storage, and disposal/recycling was being done correctly. We aren't a very large company, and the "chemicals" that we were dealing with were mostly lacquers for refinishing, epoxies, spray booths, and paints. How the fark does a large company like that who deals specifically with hazardous chemicals NOT have routine inspections?


Had some of the same questions myself, the systemic amount of overlap in compliance failure related to several different state and federal regulatory agencies for an incident like this to happen is rather surprising. Part of it may be that the company itself is just a middleman, only being a waypoint between the chemical manufacturers and coal refiners. Ideally, a company like this shouldn't exist today, having been outmodded by digital-era logistics and the realization that storing huge amounts of potentially hazardous chemicals in any one place is a bad idea (as this and many other similar incidents have painfully demonstrated). Although if a particular chemical has only limited applications and is only manufactured in batches by one or two companies (which this may be), storage of some sort may be unavoidable (but there are many better alternatives than using one big tank). A company only dealing with the transfer of chemicals could likely operate normally without any employee having any specific chemical-related expertise or experience (and may be able to operate more easily in a regulatory gray-area). In such a case, basic steps like OSHA chemical safety training and EPA waste disposal and containment compliance which should come second nature to anyone who has worked with chemicals weren't there (a culture of hostility in both the rank-and-file employees and management towards regulators might also be a factor), so a whole host of regulations just went ignored. Pepper on a lack of enforcement by the agencies involved (which probably have a long backlog of past-due inspections) and we have a mess like this.
 
2014-01-16 03:11:55 PM
I refuse to believe that in a bootstrappy, lightly regulated, Job Creator paradise like West Virginia, companies are not responsible in their handling of harmful chemicals.

That is simply not possible.

I'm sure the West Virginians are congratulating themselves on how they're doin' it right while enjoying their bottled water. Bottled water, like God intended.
 
2014-01-16 03:14:13 PM
Still relevant

"The business of the American people is business."

Because we are too stupid to learn from our mistakes.
 
2014-01-16 03:15:18 PM

Syrrh: I'm totally outraged at this affront to the 'Merican economy. How are we supposed to compete with the likes of China if we hogtie ourselves with arbitrary environmental restrictions?

Christ, there's still an article on the main page about how much progress they've made on enriching the air in Beijing. They're peaking at 671 micrograms per cubic meter and we can't even come -close- to that anymore. They're getting so thoroughly saturated in natural resources they're going to be able to mine the atmosphere soon, then we'll really start falling behind!


"mining the atmosphere"  LOL

/a little worried that now that you've given some asshole the idea, he's going to run with it
 
2014-01-16 03:15:32 PM

neversubmit: Still relevant

"The business of the American people is business."

Because we are too stupid to learn from our mistakes.


Totalfark still doesn't give you a sad button. :(
 
2014-01-16 03:17:16 PM

neversubmit: Still relevant

"The business of the American people is business."

Because we are too stupid to learn from our mistakes.


From your link:

"Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence,"
 
2014-01-16 03:28:34 PM

tlars699: neversubmit: Still relevant

"The business of the American people is business."

Because we are too stupid to learn from our mistakes.

From your link:

"Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence,"


That would be the learning part.
 
2014-01-16 03:31:43 PM

exPFCWintergreen: the money is in the banana stand: With a company dealing with chemicals, shouldn't there be routine inspections so this sort of thing could be either mitigated or stopped from occurring at all? How the fark did it get this far? Back when we had a full-time shop, we had OSHA inspections all the time to make sure that our emissions, fans, storage, and disposal/recycling was being done correctly. We aren't a very large company, and the "chemicals" that we were dealing with were mostly lacquers for refinishing, epoxies, spray booths, and paints. How the fark does a large company like that who deals specifically with hazardous chemicals NOT have routine inspections?

Had some of the same questions myself, the systemic amount of overlap in compliance failure related to several different state and federal regulatory agencies for an incident like this to happen is rather surprising. Part of it may be that the company itself is just a middleman, only being a waypoint between the chemical manufacturers and coal refiners. Ideally, a company like this shouldn't exist today, having been outmodded by digital-era logistics and the realization that storing huge amounts of potentially hazardous chemicals in any one place is a bad idea (as this and many other similar incidents have painfully demonstrated). Although if a particular chemical has only limited applications and is only manufactured in batches by one or two companies (which this may be), storage of some sort may be unavoidable (but there are many better alternatives than using one big tank). A company only dealing with the transfer of chemicals could likely operate normally without any employee having any specific chemical-related expertise or experience (and may be able to operate more easily in a regulatory gray-area). In such a case, basic steps like OSHA chemical safety training and EPA waste disposal and containment compliance which should come second nature to anyone who has worked with chemicals weren't there (a cul ...


I'd suggest that this is by design to limit the liability of the other entities.  If those tanks belonged to one of the big player ... either the manufacturer or the coal company, they'd have to maintain it to limit the risk of a spill and thus their liability.  That's expensive.  Better to create a small company for the sole purpose of owning this facility with no other resources.  If something happens, that little company is screwed, but there's nothing important there. "Freedom Industries" is corporate tongue-in-cheek for freedom from liability.
 
2014-01-16 03:40:25 PM
So how bad would you say this spill is? What's the twinkie rating on this?

i.imgur.com
 
GBB
2014-01-16 03:52:48 PM

MechaPyx: So how bad would you say this spill is? What's the twinkie rating on this?

[i.imgur.com image 300x168]


Imagine if this Twinkie represented a typical glass of water.  The creme filling would represent the amount of deadly chemicals in the water.
 
2014-01-16 04:00:41 PM

PsiChick: FUND AND ENFORCE THE GODDAMN REGULATIONS ALREADY!


So much this!

I work for a state that has this exact problem because the stupid farking Democrat governor reallocates the funding that pays for the enforcement of regulations for his pet projects, then wonders how things get so out of control.

/1 of 9 officials in a county of 3 million people regulating 25,000 businesses
 
2014-01-16 04:05:01 PM

Latinwolf: jaybeezey: So then really, what we have here is a failure of gov't to enforce the many rules and regulations on the book. Sounds about right.

So you saying that excuses the business that broke those rules?


Right winger believes corporation should have no social responsibility to community.
Right winger also believes government budgets should be very small.
Combining these beliefs creates a government with no budget to oversee a malevolent corporation.

This leads to a pretty crappy society, but I guess if toxic water is your dream...
 
2014-01-16 04:08:49 PM

Cup Check: PsiChick: FUND AND ENFORCE THE GODDAMN REGULATIONS ALREADY!

So much this!

I work for a state that has this exact problem because the stupid farking Democrat governor reallocates the funding that pays for the enforcement of regulations for his pet projects, then wonders how things get so out of control.

/1 of 9 officials in a county of 3 million people regulating 25,000 businesses


Just think of the job security.
 
2014-01-16 04:11:04 PM

Lamberts Ho Man: I'd suggest that this is by design to limit the liability of the other entities. If those tanks belonged to one of the big player ... either the manufacturer or the coal company, they'd have to maintain it to limit the risk of a spill and thus their liability. That's expensive. Better to create a small company for the sole purpose of owning this facility with no other resources. If something happens, that little company is screwed, but there's nothing important there. "Freedom Industries" is corporate tongue-in-cheek for freedom from liability.


Given the various complications related to the ownership of this particular company and its holdings (least of all the founder having felonies related to tax evasion and cocaine on record), a cynical interpretation of its existence as a ticking liability timebomb is probably justified.
 
2014-01-16 04:16:40 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: SpectroBoy: This is why ALL water should be privatized. The free market would prevent this. People would only buy from companies that provide the good stuff.

No, clearly the answer is RAISES FOR EVERYONE!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x109]

They've got top people on this. TOP.  PEOPLE.


Not work safe audio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mw49mk_x0

Classic video :)
 
2014-01-16 04:22:57 PM

WTFDYW: Cup Check: PsiChick: FUND AND ENFORCE THE GODDAMN REGULATIONS ALREADY!

So much this!

I work for a state that has this exact problem because the stupid farking Democrat governor reallocates the funding that pays for the enforcement of regulations for his pet projects, then wonders how things get so out of control.

/1 of 9 officials in a county of 3 million people regulating 25,000 businesses

Just think of the job security.


You would think, but when some beaurocrat comes along and spots holes in enforcement, the first thing the administrators do is point at the low guy on the totem pole responsible for that duty and cut his ass.

Because it doesn't matter when you get fewer inspections done because you're so busy getting the problems corrected. They'll side with the lazy ahole who rubber stamps all his inspections without even getting out of his truck, but claims 100% completion of his assigned duties.

/It was either this or be a cop
//Still glad a didn't become a cop
 
2014-01-16 04:47:52 PM

exPFCWintergreen: Lamberts Ho Man: I'd suggest that this is by design to limit the liability of the other entities. If those tanks belonged to one of the big player ... either the manufacturer or the coal company, they'd have to maintain it to limit the risk of a spill and thus their liability. That's expensive. Better to create a small company for the sole purpose of owning this facility with no other resources. If something happens, that little company is screwed, but there's nothing important there. "Freedom Industries" is corporate tongue-in-cheek for freedom from liability.

Given the various complications related to the ownership of this particular company and its holdings (least of all the founder having felonies related to tax evasion and cocaine on record), a cynical interpretation of its existence as a ticking liability timebomb is probably justified.


I don't think it's cynical at all.  It's a relatively common occurrence.  As I understand it, unraveling these issues was one of the goals of the Superfund program.

Sometimes they get caught: http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/13/news/companies/anadarko-clean-up/
 
2014-01-16 04:52:23 PM

CheatCommando: I am sure there is some sort of "industry disparagement" law that can be perverted to send at least one critic of the company to jail, at least overnight.


Anyone singing and dancing outside of the company HQ? They could be busted for rioting.
 
2014-01-16 04:59:59 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: No, clearly the answer is RAISES FOR EVERYONE!


That's a funny way of saying "DEFLECTOR SHIELDS TO FULL!"

Now that you've vented some team about unions, what do you think about clean water and environmental protection?
 
2014-01-16 05:45:24 PM

SpectroBoy: cameroncrazy1984: Are you saying that regulation and enforcement is essential to safe drinking water? THE HELL YOU SAY

I have been assured by top Libertarians that the EPA and other governmental regulation of the environment are completely UNnecessary.

TOP LIBERTARIANS.

/ This is what they actually believe


FTFY
 
2014-01-16 06:08:26 PM

GBB: MechaPyx: So how bad would you say this spill is? What's the twinkie rating on this?

[i.imgur.com image 300x168]

Imagine if this Twinkie represented a typical glass of water.  The creme filling would represent the amount of deadly chemicals in the water.


I'm sure you'd be willing to demonstrate how harmless that is with just a wee sip. No bigger than an eye droper full.
 
2014-01-16 06:49:08 PM

busy chillin': [i.imgur.com image 358x317]


Thanks
 
2014-01-16 09:20:04 PM

AgentKGB: Zeb Hesselgresser: SpectroBoy: This is why ALL water should be privatized. The free market would prevent this. People would only buy from companies that provide the good stuff.

No, clearly the answer is RAISES FOR EVERYONE!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x109]

They've got top people on this. TOP.  PEOPLE.

Not work safe audio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mw49mk_x0

Classic video :)


Not as far off from reality as you would like. Dear Old Dad was an officer/goon of an AFSCME local for a bit in the '70s. He claimed that all the guys from the International he dealt with were corrupt scumbags. Pot, kettle, etc.

/Computers not being widely available at the time, which might have made things simpler, he used to bribe secretaries for copies of every memo that crossed their desk at contract negotiation time. He often employed cocaine instead of cash, as he could get the coke wholesale, paying with the cash from some slush fund, claim retail value when he gave it to the chicks, and pocket the difference.

//Still cleaner than the Teamsters of the same era, who used to just take payoffs and order their membership to ratify whatever shiatty contract. Don't vote the right way, you'll find out what happened to Hoffa. The AFSCME guys at least seemed like they were still trying to get the best deal they could for the rank and file. That's what unions are supposed to do. If they do it too well, that's because management are morons. There's always an imbalance of power favoring management, no matter what. You just have to understand how to exploit it.
 
2014-01-16 09:31:49 PM

Zeb Hesselgresser: SpectroBoy: This is why ALL water should be privatized. The free market would prevent this. People would only buy from companies that provide the good stuff.

No, clearly the answer is RAISES FOR EVERYONE!

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x109]

They've got top people on this. TOP.  PEOPLE.


No, no, no.  Cut everyone's pay to the bone.   "Borrow" from the pension fund and file bankruptcy; it's not like those Union Thugs deserve to be paid back.  Then hand the loot out to the TOP.  PEOPLE.

/How does one go bankrupt selling junk food to Americans, anyway?
 
2014-01-16 11:59:20 PM

jake_lex: There's no way that a company that calls itself "Freedom Industries" isn't sleazy as hell.


The punishment should be that they have to change their name to PollutingYourHouseholdWaterSupply Industries.
 
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