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(Yahoo)   After Freedom Industries' chemicals made half the state's water completely unusable, WV regulators decide it's probably good idea to do a few inspections at ALL their facilties, and shockingly, find tons of other chemical storage violations   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 124
    More: Obvious, Freedom Industries, chemical accident, storage violation, West Virginia, nitrous oxide, Tom Aluise, chemicals  
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5049 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 12:28 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



124 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-16 01:12:50 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


I doubt anyone will see prison time. All the wrong doing here is by rich white business men.

However, this is probably a death blow for the company. Now that a second site with leaks has been found they are going to get the class IV anal probe they deserve.
 
2014-01-16 01:13:11 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Consumers will just buy their industrial coal from companies with safer records, ensuing capitalism works better than regulations.


Dammit! You broke my sarcasm detector and I don't get out of work till 6 and the sarcasm detector store closes at 5:00.
 
2014-01-16 01:15:16 PM
This is why ALL water should be privatized. The free market would prevent this. People would only buy from companies that provide the good stuff.

That and tax cuts.
 
2014-01-16 01:17:35 PM

tlars699: cameroncrazy1984:

Weaver95:

Pocket Ninja:

Aw, man. I love you, guys!

Orange 2, Cyan 2, and Yellow 2, respectively.


When Cameron marks you 2, it's 'cause he thinks you're the poo.
 
2014-01-16 01:19:19 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


In West Virgina?  Where when the worst Corporate citizen in America, Massey Energy was facing an unfavorable outcome in a lawsuit, it's CEO basically opened his checkbook and more or less bought a seat on the WV Supreme Court for a fishing buddy?
 
2014-01-16 01:20:17 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


I think the odds of executive assassination are probably better at this point.
 
2014-01-16 01:21:33 PM

NeverDrunk23: 'The HELL with you government regulating my freedom!'

-Disaster strikes-

'Why the HELL didn't the government regulate to stop this from happening!?'


You forgot:
"Where the HELL is my check from the government to fix everything back to the way it was"?
 
2014-01-16 01:24:27 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.


RIGHT. Forget the b*stards who were breaking the law. The ones charged with trying to keep them from breaking the law ought to be jailed!

/not against investigating lax enforcement. just wondering why we'd give a pass to the jerks who make it needful to have "don't be a jerk" regulations present and enforced.
 
2014-01-16 01:26:06 PM

tripleseven: Donnchadha: See? This is why government regulation and oversight is a terrible thing. There were absolutely ZERO reported safety violations when nobody was going around looking for them -- and now that they are, it's through the farking roof!

I didn't have ANY viruses on my PC until I installed this damn antivirus!


Oh noes! A Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal! Quick, wrap this towel around your head!
 
2014-01-16 01:27:38 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

Eh, I'm all for undoing corporations but at least in this case I don't think prison is really warranted. Had people been hurt or a more dangerous chemical been spilled then I'd reconsider. Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years. Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.


Well, when government is small enough to drown in a bathtub, it has a harder time making it out to all those job-sites and storage tanks in a timely manner.  Now you COULD argue that since these companies are making lots of money from this activity perhaps they should pay for the costs of ensuring they are doing it in a safe manner, maybe by a special tax on their profits.  But if you did that you;d be a dirty socialist communist who hates America and jobs
 
2014-01-16 01:28:22 PM
imageshack.com
 
2014-01-16 01:28:54 PM
This is (and I say this ironically) great news.  Finding problems is step one to FIXING problems. 

I would go so far as to say that had they inspected their facilities since 1991, this problem would have been less likely.
 
2014-01-16 01:29:26 PM

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Fine the company the entire cost of the cleanup, penalize them further for failing to follow safety procedures, and watch them like a hawk for years.


Yep.

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Oh and find out why they weren't being inspected before this. That part seems to be the biggest failing in all this.


Double yep.

brimed03: RIGHT. Forget the b*stards who were breaking the law. The ones charged with trying to keep them from breaking the law ought to be jailed!


Who said that?
 
2014-01-16 01:32:14 PM

Magorn: Well, when government is small enough to drown in a bathtub, it has a harder time making it out to all those job-sites and storage tanks in a timely manner.


You'd think that in 10 years someone might be able to at least stop in and say hello. West Virginia ain't that big a place.
 
2014-01-16 01:32:47 PM

brimed03: tlars699: cameroncrazy1984:

Weaver95:

Pocket Ninja:

Aw, man. I love you, guys!

Orange 2, Cyan 2, and Yellow 2, respectively.

When Cameron marks you 2, it's 'cause he thinks you're the poo.


He can be a very angry fellow, can't he? That's why he's orange. Pocket Ninja is yellow, because he always makes me smile. And Weaver is just cool.
 
2014-01-16 01:33:19 PM
With a company dealing with chemicals, shouldn't there be routine inspections so this sort of thing could be either mitigated or stopped from occurring at all? How the fark did it get this far? Back when we had a full-time shop, we had OSHA inspections all the time to make sure that our emissions, fans, storage, and disposal/recycling was being done correctly. We aren't a very large company, and the "chemicals" that we were dealing with were mostly lacquers for refinishing, epoxies, spray booths, and paints. How the fark does a large company like that who deals specifically with hazardous chemicals NOT have routine inspections?
 
2014-01-16 01:34:49 PM
1) If it's cheaper to pay the fines than fix the violations, that will happen.
2) If it's cheaper to bribe the inspectors than fix it or pay the fine AND the inspectors can be bribed without getting caught, that will happen.
3) If you deliberately shut down the inspections because of budget cuts, don't be surprised when everyone starts doing the things you tried to ban and cost you more money in fines than you save by shutting down the inspectors.  (Looking at you, MI pesticide inspectors).
 
2014-01-16 01:35:58 PM
According to WV Environmental Health inspectors, first, they have no authority to inspect chemical storage tanks, unless the chemicals are actually produced on the site they're stored. Second, their budget has been cut so much they haven't got anywhere close to the # of inspectors they really need, and third, the chemical that was leaked isn't on their list of 'hazardous' substances so it may not have been checked even had they had the authority to inspect storage tanks.

Oh, and the company didn't even have a hazardous spill response plan for an event like this, even though they knew the tanks were over 60 years old and could start leaking at any moment.

Hmm, I wonder who writes the regulations and funds the agency's inspection budget? I'd imagine it's their state legislature. I wonder what party controls WV's legislature...?
 
2014-01-16 01:36:20 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: A business utopia not unlike Texas in some respects


I'm pretty sure that' where the companies the moved out of WV went off to
 
2014-01-16 01:36:46 PM
Did anyone ever go to jail over that little chemical plant assplosion in TX?
 
2014-01-16 01:37:08 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Magorn: Well, when government is small enough to drown in a bathtub, it has a harder time making it out to all those job-sites and storage tanks in a timely manner.

You'd think that in 10 years someone might be able to at least stop in and say hello. West Virginia ain't that big a place.


How are they going to get there? Driving? In dem dere hills?! Are you nuts!?!!

That being said, any word on how the Everdeens are coping?
 
2014-01-16 01:39:35 PM
Shouldnt we also be asking the EPA and whatever other agencies that were supposed to be inspecting these places why they were not being inspected?
 
2014-01-16 01:40:22 PM
I sure do love me some classic derpocrat outrage... "Our laws aren't being enforced!  We need more laws to fix that!"
 
2014-01-16 01:41:03 PM

JerkyMeat: oh, and fark you GOPers Libertarians, it's this kinda shiat you bring to the nation.

 
2014-01-16 01:42:57 PM

SpectroBoy: nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?

I doubt anyone will see prison time. All the wrong doing here is by rich white business men.

However, this is probably a death blow for the company. Now that a second site with leaks has been found they are going to get the class IV anal probe they deserve.


no wrongdoing will provably be found to have come from at least the upper 2 levels of management.
 
2014-01-16 01:44:58 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Of course the gummermint regalatin libs are going after Freedom Industries.


And the FOX-News people will attack them for going after the "job creators".
 
2014-01-16 01:45:23 PM
I hate to say it but if this happened in China they would have already shot the owners in the head for being such jackasses.  And in this case I'd be totally cool with that.
 
2014-01-16 01:46:05 PM

groppet: Shouldnt we also be asking the EPA and whatever other agencies that were supposed to be inspecting these places why they were not being inspected?


Places like West Virginia use every loophole and local politician they can to avoid that stuff. It's a conservative Mecca, you know.
 
2014-01-16 01:47:38 PM
So then really, what we have here is a failure of gov't to enforce the many rules and regulations on the book. Sounds about right.
 
2014-01-16 01:49:06 PM

jaybeezey: So then really, what we have here is a failure of gov't to enforce the many rules and regulations on the book. Sounds about right.


So you saying that excuses the business that broke those rules?
 
2014-01-16 01:49:26 PM

jaybeezey: So then really, what we have here is a failure of gov't to enforce the many rules and regulations on the book. Sounds about right.


hehe, that's the right-wing spin already! It's not the fault of the corporation that it ruined the drinking water in nine counties! The government should have been doing something about it!

...hey wait...
 
2014-01-16 01:49:47 PM
What's the outlook for the water? I mean, I don't know much about this stuff, but how will the cleanup work, and will the water ever be safe to drink again? Or is this a disaster of generational proportions?
 
2014-01-16 01:51:51 PM

Cyclometh: What's the outlook for the water? I mean, I don't know much about this stuff, but how will the cleanup work, and will the water ever be safe to drink again? Or is this a disaster of generational proportions?


I was an environmental scientist in a former life but I've never been to West Virginia. But it's a weird little chemical that no one really knows much about, it's in the soil. I don't know about its water solubility which would be a big factor.

All I know is I'd be buying bottled water if I was there for the foreseeable future.
 
2014-01-16 01:52:04 PM

Cyclometh: What's the outlook for the water? I mean, I don't know much about this stuff, but how will the cleanup work, and will the water ever be safe to drink again? Or is this a disaster of generational proportions?


From what I understand the stuff is very water soluble and subject to microbial action.  So it will dilute & degrade and not be a long term issue.
 
2014-01-16 01:54:57 PM

Lamberts Ho Man: Cyclometh: What's the outlook for the water? I mean, I don't know much about this stuff, but how will the cleanup work, and will the water ever be safe to drink again? Or is this a disaster of generational proportions?

From what I understand the stuff is very water soluble and subject to microbial action.  So it will dilute & degrade and not be a long term issue.


Not an environmental scientist ... heard it on a news report.
 
2014-01-16 01:57:57 PM
Fark. I was always under the impression that there have always been regulatory agencies going around to these chemical storage/production facilities doing random inspections just like they do with grain operations and food production/storage facilities. Guess I was wrong.
 
2014-01-16 01:59:32 PM

Itstoearly: I sure do love me some classic derpocrat outrage... "Our laws aren't being enforced!  We need more laws to fix that!"


Obvious troll is a troll, but I'll bite... I'm pretty sure all people are asking for the common sense environmental regulations actually be enforced and complied. In all honesty, having all the environmental regulations brings more jobs to the industry with all the people doing the checks and balances. But NOO!!!!! Government regulation is bad and it kills jobs...right.... Do you use a spoon or fork to eat all that derp? Pretty please, whatever you do, don't choke on it.
 
2014-01-16 02:05:12 PM

Itstoearly: I sure do love me some classic derpocrat outrage... "Our laws aren't being enforced!  We need more laws to fix that!"


Our laws aren;t being enforced we need More Funding to enforce them, preferably by raising taxes on the people making money off the activity that needs inspecting

do try to keep up
 
2014-01-16 02:13:24 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-16 02:17:53 PM

lilbjorn: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 236x240]


No no no. It was this dude:
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2014-01-16 02:18:12 PM
I, for one, am for the government getting out of the way...of the lynch mob forming to rush in and hang the owners from nearest, strong tree branch.
 
2014-01-16 02:29:03 PM

SpectroBoy: This is why ALL water should be privatized. The free market would prevent this. People would only buy from companies that provide the good stuff.


No, clearly the answer is RAISES FOR EVERYONE!

upload.wikimedia.org

They've got top people on this. TOP.  PEOPLE.
 
2014-01-16 02:31:47 PM
I'm totally outraged at this affront to the 'Merican economy. How are we supposed to compete with the likes of China if we hogtie ourselves with arbitrary environmental restrictions?

Christ, there's still an article on the main page about how much progress they've made on enriching the air in Beijing. They're peaking at 671 micrograms per cubic meter and we can't even come -close- to that anymore. They're getting so thoroughly saturated in natural resources they're going to be able to mine the atmosphere soon, then we'll really start falling behind!
 
2014-01-16 02:32:34 PM
I'm sure they were going to take car of it.  Business's are great at self regulation.
 
2014-01-16 02:35:46 PM

FUND AND ENFORCE THE GODDAMN REGULATIONS ALREADY!

 
GBB
2014-01-16 02:36:13 PM
Which way does shiat roll, again?   Is it UPhill?
 
2014-01-16 02:37:10 PM

Magorn: Itstoearly: I sure do love me some classic derpocrat outrage... "Our laws aren't being enforced!  We need more laws to fix that!"

Our laws aren;t being enforced we need More Funding to enforce them, preferably by raising taxes on the people making money off the activity that needs inspecting

do try to keep up


Oh noes!

Think of those poor stockholders, missing out on their dividends!
They'll have to make do with hanging on to their Benzes and Beemers for a year before trading them in.
Not sure if they can deal with such hardships.

A tiny violin plays.
 
2014-01-16 02:41:38 PM

nmrsnr: Odds that someone will go to jail over this? Who wants to set the line?


Before or after the Congress issues a formal apology?
 
2014-01-16 03:00:05 PM

August11: Government protecting citizens from a corporation??? NEVAR


It's government protecting industry from citizens.
 
2014-01-16 03:01:28 PM

the money is in the banana stand: With a company dealing with chemicals, shouldn't there be routine inspections so this sort of thing could be either mitigated or stopped from occurring at all? How the fark did it get this far? Back when we had a full-time shop, we had OSHA inspections all the time to make sure that our emissions, fans, storage, and disposal/recycling was being done correctly. We aren't a very large company, and the "chemicals" that we were dealing with were mostly lacquers for refinishing, epoxies, spray booths, and paints. How the fark does a large company like that who deals specifically with hazardous chemicals NOT have routine inspections?


Had some of the same questions myself, the systemic amount of overlap in compliance failure related to several different state and federal regulatory agencies for an incident like this to happen is rather surprising. Part of it may be that the company itself is just a middleman, only being a waypoint between the chemical manufacturers and coal refiners. Ideally, a company like this shouldn't exist today, having been outmodded by digital-era logistics and the realization that storing huge amounts of potentially hazardous chemicals in any one place is a bad idea (as this and many other similar incidents have painfully demonstrated). Although if a particular chemical has only limited applications and is only manufactured in batches by one or two companies (which this may be), storage of some sort may be unavoidable (but there are many better alternatives than using one big tank). A company only dealing with the transfer of chemicals could likely operate normally without any employee having any specific chemical-related expertise or experience (and may be able to operate more easily in a regulatory gray-area). In such a case, basic steps like OSHA chemical safety training and EPA waste disposal and containment compliance which should come second nature to anyone who has worked with chemicals weren't there (a culture of hostility in both the rank-and-file employees and management towards regulators might also be a factor), so a whole host of regulations just went ignored. Pepper on a lack of enforcement by the agencies involved (which probably have a long backlog of past-due inspections) and we have a mess like this.
 
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