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(The National Memo)   Study finds that voter ID laws are all about preventing voter fraud, and were in no way a coordinated attempt by republican-led state governments across the country to disenfranchise minorities and immigrants   (nationalmemo.com) divider line 238
    More: Obvious, voter fraud, voter ID, state governments, Iowa Secretary of State, University of Massachusetts-Boston, immigrants, Erin E. O'Brien, laws  
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1787 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jan 2014 at 11:06 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-16 08:53:12 AM
USA! USA! USA!

/it was obvious to me, too.
//and Abortion laws are about protecting women's health
///Concealed Carry is about protecting grumpy old men.
///redistricting is about protecting...Republicans.
//all enacted at the same time accross the country.
/Slashies.
 
2014-01-16 08:54:28 AM

Madbassist1: //all enacted at the same time accross the country


D'OH!!!
 
2014-01-16 09:07:44 AM
www.tickld.com
 
2014-01-16 09:21:56 AM
Republicans: because democracy subverts the will of rich people.
 
2014-01-16 09:24:06 AM
Not that Republicans would care what the study says because it is being done by University of Massachusetts professors.
 
2014-01-16 09:24:26 AM
Well, to be fair, all they care about is preventing people from voting for Democrats. If you are a black, lesbian Muslim who wants to vote Republican, well they are willing to lose your vote to keep 10000 other people from voting for the "liberal".
 
2014-01-16 09:30:54 AM
Republican outreach, Ho!

Steam onward! More coal to the boilers, lads! Flank speed forward, forward to the 19th century!
 
2014-01-16 09:37:22 AM

Gecko Gingrich: Well, to be fair, all they care about is preventing people from voting for Democrats. If you are a black, lesbian Muslim who wants to vote Republican, well they are willing to lose your vote to keep 10000 other people from voting for the "liberal".


you say that like it's a bad thing?

I realize it'll be impossible to do, but why can't we make voting for everyone who isn't currently incarcerated and over the age of 18 (as of election day) be legal? Why go through hoops to make certain segments illegal? Just make it all legal and see what happens? Then you wouldn't have to worry about people voting against you because you're actively trying to trample their voting rights? Does this make too much sense?
 
2014-01-16 09:47:30 AM

somedude210: I realize it'll be impossible to do, but why can't we make voting for everyone who isn't currently incarcerated and over the age of 18 (as of election day) be legal? Why go through hoops to make certain segments illegal? Just make it all legal and see what happens? Then you wouldn't have to worry about people voting against you because you're actively trying to trample their voting rights? Does this make too much sense?


At the root of it all, that is the system we currently have (with the addition of a citizenship requirement). It's just that the GOP uses the guise of "making sure those requirements are met" to disqualify the "undesirables".
 
2014-01-16 09:49:00 AM
static2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-16 09:49:44 AM
Four out of five doctors smoke Camel cigarettes!
 
2014-01-16 10:12:28 AM
d15ya7jlc6yy8b.cloudfront.net
 
2014-01-16 10:14:04 AM
As an interested observer of American politics, it's hard for me to truly grasp what it's like to live in that political system.

The other day we had a speaker from New York at one of our large planning events. In his presentation he had some slides that had to do with electoral districts in Chicago and how they appear to circumvent a largely Hispanic area, I think it was called Cicero.

Anyway, the word "gerrymander" doesn't even describe it. More like "fraudulent". That's what I would say.
 
2014-01-16 10:25:51 AM
Can't win the game?  Change the rules.

This can only work for so long.
 
2014-01-16 10:32:02 AM
The blog post and the paper's abstract are a little light on the details, and I'd rather not pay $30 to read the thing.

Their claim basically seems to be that Republicans aren't vocal about voter fraud in areas where said fraud would be less likely to work against them.  Selective enforcement, basically.

That's the kind of claim you could make about anybody.  People living in poor areas are more likely to support a higher minimum wage.  People living in rich areas are more likely to support tax cuts for the rich.  Rape victims are more likely to support anti-rape legislation.   Cyclists are more likely to advocate for more bike lanes. Etc etc.

People's natural tendency to only care about things that affect them personally shouldn't be seen as a surprise or as a valid condemnation of those issues.
 
2014-01-16 10:35:35 AM

Rev.K: As an interested observer of American politics, it's hard for me to truly grasp what it's like to live in that political system.

The other day we had a speaker from New York at one of our large planning events. In his presentation he had some slides that had to do with electoral districts in Chicago and how they appear to circumvent a largely Hispanic area, I think it was called Cicero.

Anyway, the word "gerrymander" doesn't even describe it. More like "fraudulent". That's what I would say.


Amusingly if you visit we will frequently inform you that it is the Greatest Political System Ever Divised. Questions like "well why is it the only western system that can't figure out healthcare?" are not welcome at this point.
 
2014-01-16 10:50:50 AM
farm5.staticflickr.com
 
2014-01-16 10:54:14 AM

serial_crusher: Rape victims are more likely to support anti-rape legislation.


my question is...who would vote against anti-rape legislation? Assuming we all have equal chance to get raped
 
2014-01-16 10:56:50 AM
"[W]here African-Americans and poor people vote more frequently, and there are larger numbers of non-citizens, restrictive-access legislation is more likely to be proposed,"

When you got large numbers of non-citizen illegal aliens in your midst, it's only common sense to require some sort of ID to vote.  That explains it right there.
 
2014-01-16 10:58:04 AM

somedude210: serial_crusher: Rape victims are more likely to support anti-rape legislation.

my question is...who would vote against anti-rape legislation? Assuming we all have equal chance to get raped


Who's the guy who said that a rape baby is a gift from God? The pro-rape guy. He'd vote against it.
 
2014-01-16 10:58:31 AM

Dahnkster: [d15ya7jlc6yy8b.cloudfront.net image 700x450]


I have no idea where that came from or why it's here, but I have a hard time believing that there is a 2" jump between people with size 8.5 feet and smaller and everyone else.
 
2014-01-16 10:58:48 AM
Riiiight.
 
2014-01-16 10:59:10 AM

somedude210: serial_crusher: Rape victims are more likely to support anti-rape legislation.

my question is...who would vote against anti-rape legislation? Assuming we all have equal chance to get raped


You'd be surprised:

GOP legislator thinks spousal rape should be legal
 
2014-01-16 11:00:17 AM

SkinnyHead: "[W]here African-Americans and poor people vote more frequently, and there are larger numbers of non-citizens, restrictive-access legislation is more likely to be proposed,"

When you got large numbers of non-citizen illegal aliens in your midst, it's only common sense to require some sort of ID to vote.  That explains it right there.


you either aren't very intelligent, or have no concept of illegal immigrant behavior. Trust me, those guys arent going to try to cast a fraudulent vote...but of course, you knew that, right? I mean, you aren't that ignorant, right?
 
2014-01-16 11:12:26 AM

SkinnyHead: "[W]here African-Americans and poor people vote more frequently, and there are larger numbers of non-citizens, restrictive-access legislation is more likely to be proposed,"

When you got large numbers of non-citizen illegal aliens in your midst, it's only common sense to require some sort of ID to vote.  That explains it right there.


what are you afraid of? foreign influence in your body politic?

I guess you're willing to ban AIPAC and multi-national corporations from giving money and endorsements to legislators too then?
 
2014-01-16 11:13:25 AM

somedude210: serial_crusher: Rape victims are more likely to support anti-rape legislation.

my question is...who would vote against anti-rape legislation? Assuming we all have equal chance to get raped


State Senator Richard H. Black of Virginia. Republican, or course.
He'd like to repeal Virginia's law on spousal rape.
 
2014-01-16 11:15:01 AM
Shocker

Spocker

Stocker?
 
2014-01-16 11:15:02 AM

somedude210: I realize it'll be impossible to do, but why can't we make voting for everyone who isn't currently incarcerated and over the age of 18 (as of election day) be legal


I'm thinking it has something to do with the GOP's fear of being voted out in the biggest landslide in history if everyone in the country voted.
 
2014-01-16 11:18:54 AM
Why do you all encourage the chip?
 
2014-01-16 11:19:05 AM
"But if a nondiscriminatory law is supported by valid neutral justifications, those justifications should not be disregarded simply because partisan interests may have provided one motivation for the votes of individual legislators. "

Crawford v Marion County

That said, early voting is a great thing. Voter IDs and/or some form of state identification should be easy to get and free. Shutting down BMV locations is shady as fark, and mobile BMV ID units are a good idea. They should also allow provisional ballots for those who can't afford to get the identification.

Frankly it's getting very difficult to do much without proper identification in this country. I'd like to see that everyone gets an equal chance at acquiring it.
 
2014-01-16 11:19:22 AM

SkinnyHead: "[W]here African-Americans and poor people vote more frequently, and there are larger numbers of non-citizens, restrictive-access legislation is more likely to be proposed,"

When you got large numbers of non-citizen illegal aliens in your midst, it's only common sense to require some sort of ID to vote.  That explains it right there.


Illegal Aliens: Good enough to act as near slave labor, pay sales and property taxes, and help keep our economy going as both consumers and workers, but not good enough to vote.
 
2014-01-16 11:20:32 AM

Hobodeluxe: SkinnyHead: "[W]here African-Americans and poor people vote more frequently, and there are larger numbers of non-citizens, restrictive-access legislation is more likely to be proposed,"

When you got large numbers of non-citizen illegal aliens in your midst, it's only common sense to require some sort of ID to vote.  That explains it right there.

what are you afraid of? foreign influence in your body politic?

I guess you're willing to ban AIPAC and multi-national corporations from giving money and endorsements to legislators too then?


That's silly. Corporations are people, friend, and money is speech and those with the most money are entitled to moar rights because they are job creators anointed by the one true Republican JesusTM and furthermore comma
You should be more bootstrappy and just borrow money from your parents.
 
2014-01-16 11:21:00 AM

SphericalTime: Republicans: because democracy subverts the will of rich people.



We don't live in a democracy, sorry, next time pay attention to 8th grade civics class


Thanks for playing
 
2014-01-16 11:23:23 AM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: SkinnyHead: "[W]here African-Americans and poor people vote more frequently, and there are larger numbers of non-citizens, restrictive-access legislation is more likely to be proposed,"

When you got large numbers of non-citizen illegal aliens in your midst, it's only common sense to require some sort of ID to vote.  That explains it right there.

Illegal Aliens: Good enough to act as near slave labor, pay sales and property taxes, and help keep our economy going as both consumers and workers, but not good enough to vote.


If they want to vote, then they should enter legally and become naturalized citizens
 
2014-01-16 11:24:00 AM
It's not that hard to get an ID.
 
2014-01-16 11:25:08 AM
Voter ID laws discriminate against people who can't figure out how to get a voter ID.
 
2014-01-16 11:27:03 AM

give me doughnuts: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: SkinnyHead: "[W]here African-Americans and poor people vote more frequently, and there are larger numbers of non-citizens, restrictive-access legislation is more likely to be proposed,"

When you got large numbers of non-citizen illegal aliens in your midst, it's only common sense to require some sort of ID to vote.  That explains it right there.

Illegal Aliens: Good enough to act as near slave labor, pay sales and property taxes, and help keep our economy going as both consumers and workers, but not good enough to vote.

If they want to vote, then they should enter legally and become naturalized citizens


But then the businesses that support the Republican party wouldn't be able to pay them slave wages. If they had actual rights.
 
2014-01-16 11:27:26 AM

Frank N Stein: It's not that hard to get an ID.


It actually is a challenge for some and the point of the article/study was those folks impacted were identified and targeted by the people who designed the legislation.
 
2014-01-16 11:27:44 AM
Well I guess that settles it.  Everyone can just go home and stop complaining now.
 
2014-01-16 11:27:49 AM
Could be worse.. could be the continuing GOP outreach program to women..

GOP orders IRS to rape rape victims
 
2014-01-16 11:29:20 AM

Frank N Stein: It's not that hard to get an ID.


Cletus C.: Voter ID laws discriminate against people who can't figure out how to get a voter ID.


Who cares? There's no need for voter ID because vote fraud is virtually non-existent. But keep farking that chicken.
 
2014-01-16 11:29:20 AM

Frank N Stein: It's not that hard to get an ID.


It depends on where you are.

Certain states, especially large but sparsely populated states, are difficult to attain IDs for. For instance, for people with no driver's license, getting an ID may involve traveling by public transportation to as far as another town or another county to the DMV to get an ID for voting purposes. This is difficult if you are poor, if you work during the day and can't take a day off, or if you are elderly.

Certain states know this and try to use it for effect. Scott Walker of Wisconsin tried to close down a number of DMV offices in Democratic districts after the voter ID bill was passed. Some of the closures would've forced people to travel across counties to get an ID.
 
2014-01-16 11:30:14 AM

Frank N Stein: It's not that hard to get an ID.

Indiana

Angela Hiss
Notre Dame University student Angela Hiss was barred from voting in Indiana because her Illinois driver's license was not accepted as proof of identification.  Thousands of students like Angela will have difficulty voting in the next election because of repressive voter ID laws.  Read more
Nuns from St. Mary's Convent
In 2008, twelve nuns from St. Mary's Convent were prevented from casting ballots because they did not have government-issued photo ID. This was the first election voters were required to present ID after Indiana passed its stringent voter ID law.  requiring voters to present valid government-issued photo ID at the polls in order to cast a ballot. Read more
Edward and Mary Weidenbener
Edward and Mary are a married couple in their late 80s, living in Indiana. They went to vote in the presidential primary in May 2012, unaware that Indiana had passed a new law requiring voters to show photo identification at the polls. Because they did not have the required ID, and were not informed in time to obtain such ID, they were given provisional ballots. Unfortunately, those provisional ballots were never counted, because the Weidenbeners were never informed that they had to follow up with the county election board to submit identification after they voted. Read more

Pennsylvania
Wiola Lee
Wiola Lee, 59, was born in rural Georgia and moved to Philadelphia in her early youth to live with her grandmother. Ms. Lee worked for the Philadelphia Public Schools, including special needs children. She has voted for well over 30 years and has been civically active, volunteering as a poll worker in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. With the new voter ID laws, Ms. Lee is trying to access her birth certificate which she will need in order to obtain a photo ID, but the state of Georgia has no record of her birth. Without a photo ID, Ms. Lee will not be able to vote. Read more
Barbara Decoursey
Ms. Decoursey, 79 takes voting seriously. She has been voting in every election since Harry S. Truman ran for president, served as an election judge, and has made sure her children and grandchildren are registered and vote. She was born by midwife in North Carolina and has no birth certificate which is needed to get a photo ID in Pennsylvania. Read more
Bea Bookler
Bea Bookler has voted in every election since 1940 but now 72 years later she may not be able to cast what she believes might be her last vote. At 93 years old, Ms. Bookler lives at an assisted living facility in Chester County, no longer posseses photo ID and does not have her birth certificate to obtain ID. Read More
Devra Mirel ("Asher") Schor
Mr. Schor is a 22 year-old transgender man (female to male) registered voter in Pennsylvania who was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He works as a paralegal for a public interest law firm that provides civil rights assistance to Pennsylvania prisoners. Mr. Schor expects to formally change his name and gender identity after the transitioning process is further along, which will not be before the November election. Although he has two forms of photo ID acceptable under the new voter photo ID law - a current passport and driver's license - in both he looks like a woman and is identified as "female," but looks and presents like a man. Mr. Schor has a very real and legitimate concern that poll workers will refuse to allow him to vote on election day in November when the person in his ID photos looks so different from the person who comes to vote.
Dorothy Barksdale
Dorothy Barksdale was born at home by a midwife in rural Halifax County, Virginia in 1926. She and her niece have tried unsuccessfully for three years to obtain a birth certificate from the State of Virginia and was recently told that they have no record of her birth. Dorothy's niece called into 1-866-OUR-VOTE after learning about the new photo ID requirement in order to vote, looking for assistance on how to get an ID. Ms. Barkdale started working as a poll worker in Philadelphia shortly after the passage of the Voting Rights Act and now may not be able to vote in November.
Gloria Cuttino
Gloria who is 61 was born in Summerville, South Carolina and moved to Philadelphia at a young age. Ms. Cuttino's mother died when she was sixteen, leaving Ms. Cuttino alone to care for her three younger brothers and sisters. Ms. Cuttino raised four children of her own, one of whom is a Philadelphia police officer. Prior to the photo ID law going into affect she has been trying to get her birth certificate from South Carolina and has told her they have no birth record. Through the help of a pro bono lawyer, she learned that the only way to now get a "delayed" birth certificate is to seek census and other records, which will cost approximately $100, and as well as hire an attorney in South Carolina to petition the court. Ms. Cuttino will not be able to vote in November.
 
2014-01-16 11:32:02 AM
I am still shocked that no Democrat has given Sweden as an example yet. Wonder why.
 
2014-01-16 11:32:34 AM

Witty_Retort: rank N Stein: It's not that hard to get an ID.

Indiana
Angela Hiss
Notre Dame University student Angela Hiss was barred from voting in Indiana because her Illinois driver's license was not accepted as proof of identification.  Thousands of students like Angela will have difficulty voting in the next election because of repressive voter ID laws.  Read more
Nuns from St. Mary's Convent
In 2008, twelve nuns from St. Mary's Convent were prevented from casting ballots because they did not have government-issued photo ID. This was the first election voters were required to present ID after Indiana passed its stringent voter ID law.  requiring voters to present valid government-issued photo ID at the polls in order to cast a ballot. Read more
Edward and Mary Weidenbener
Edward and Mary are a married couple in their late 80s, living in Indiana. They went to vote in the presidential primary in May 2012, unaware that Indiana had passed a new law requiring voters to show photo identification at the polls. Because they did not have the required ID, and were not informed in time to obtain such ID, they were given provisional ballots. Unfortunately, those provisional ballots were never counted, because the Weidenbeners were never informed that they had to follow up with the county election board to submit identification after they voted. Read more


They could have cast a provisional ballot and should have followed up on it. SCOTUS already ruled that Indiana's law was constitutional.
 
2014-01-16 11:32:38 AM

Frank N Stein: It's not that hard to get an ID.


Some communities in Texas are a 200 mile round trip from the nearest office to get an ID.

Many Texas counties do not have driver's license offices "[requiring] some voters to travel approximately 200 miles round trip in order to obtain an EIC." Additionally, the suit says, many of those offices don't have weekend hours, so "some voters are required to take hours of time out of a workday to obtain an EIC." Source

Lots of people are getting stuck in a catch-22 cycle: "You need a birth certificate to get an ID/You need an ID to get a birth certificate"

Lots of people don't have them, or don't have ones that match their voter registration. Married women in Texas ran into this in the latest round of voting law changes.

From a position of privilege, it's easy to say that it is easy to get an ID. That's not true for everyone. Voting is a universal right, and we should not be throwing up artificial barriers to participation.
 
2014-01-16 11:33:17 AM
voter literacy tests discriminate against people who are too dumb to read and furthermore

www.slate.com
 
2014-01-16 11:34:58 AM

RexTalionis: Frank N Stein: It's not that hard to get an ID.

It depends on where you are.

Certain states, especially large but sparsely populated states, are difficult to attain IDs for. For instance, for people with no driver's license, getting an ID may involve traveling by public transportation to as far as another town or another county to the DMV to get an ID for voting purposes. This is difficult if you are poor, if you work during the day and can't take a day off, or if you are elderly.

Certain states know this and try to use it for effect. Scott Walker of Wisconsin tried to close down a number of DMV offices in Democratic districts after the voter ID bill was passed. Some of the closures would've forced people to travel across counties to get an ID.


ahh I see. I'm from Chicago and don't have a drivers license. I assumed that these laws target "urban" people who live in a place with extensive public transportation.
 
2014-01-16 11:36:15 AM

redmid17: Voter IDs and/or some form of state identification should be easy to get and free.


Why?  Do you like barriers to voting?
 
2014-01-16 11:36:24 AM

DarwiOdrade: Frank N Stein: It's not that hard to get an ID.

Cletus C.: Voter ID laws discriminate against people who can't figure out how to get a voter ID.

Who cares? There's no need for voter ID because vote fraud is virtually non-existent. But keep farking that chicken.


Fraud? No, I'm thinking if you can't figure out how to get an ID you should probably just skip the whole voting thing.
 
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