Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(BBC)   Not everyone is impressed by the PR Pope. UN asks Vatican why it is still covering up child abuse   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 30
    More: Obvious, PR Pope, Vatican, child sex abuse, United States, child abuses, judicial panel, pedophile priests, UN Convention  
•       •       •

1358 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 9:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



30 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2014-01-16 08:40:45 AM  
Yeah, WTF is this memo to bishops shait?
Tell everyone they are designated to report and follow up any allegations of abuse.
Who does he think he is? Paterno?
 
2014-01-16 09:03:43 AM  
Archbishop Tomasi, who is the Vatican's envoy to the UN, said that it was important to note that priests were "not functionaries of the Vatican but citizens of their countries and fall under the jurisdiction of their own countries".

This is absolutely the smartest thing the RC did, in history.  The Vatican retains "moral authority" over its billions of adherents - meaning they'll obey or spend eternity in hell.  But when there's something to be held accountable for, the Vatican says, "Not us, they're their own thing!  Can't pin anything on us."  Meanwhile the bishops say, "We do what the Holy See tells us to.  It's all codified."  They've played this shell game for centuries, consciously, and it's always worked well for them.

I do think, though, that there is a very interesting point to be made about the "jurisdiction of their own countries" statement.  Maybe governments will hear this and think twice, and stop giving religion a pass.
 
2014-01-16 09:10:43 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: This is absolutely the smartest thing the RC did, in history.  The Vatican retains "moral authority" over its billions of adherents - meaning they'll obey or spend eternity in hell.  But when there's something to be held accountable for, the Vatican says, "Not us, they're their own thing!  Can't pin anything on us."  Meanwhile the bishops say, "We do what the Holy See tells us to.  It's all codified."  They've played this shell game for centuries, consciously, and it's always worked well for them.


It's basically the same argument which has been used to allow individual dioceses in the US to declare bankruptcy to avoid having to pay out settlements to victims of their priests, while the Catholic church remains the wealthiest corporation in the world.
 
2014-01-16 09:11:49 AM  
So the kids don't get cold while they're being diddled?
 
2014-01-16 09:13:19 AM  
For what it's worth, most of the changes put forth by this pope have been good. That he hasn't gone on to satisfy every single claim against the Church isn't a failing of his, but a reminder just how far the Church has been dragged down by his predecessors.

Go get 'em, Francis!
 
2014-01-16 09:15:18 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: For what it's worth, most of the changes put forth by this pope have been

PR fluff

FTFY

/that said, the recent sackings at the Vatican bank do look like something that might presage real change
 
2014-01-16 09:17:25 AM  
 
2014-01-16 09:21:36 AM  

kqc7011: This is the proverbial "pot calling the kettle black".
http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/when-those-meant-to -k eep-the-peace-commit-sexualized-violence


came here to post THIS!
 
2014-01-16 09:23:07 AM  
Pope trifecta in effect.
 
2014-01-16 09:23:18 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: AverageAmericanGuy: For what it's worth, most of the changes put forth by this pope have been PR fluff

FTFY

/that said, the recent sackings at the Vatican bank do look like something that might presage real change


agree although even then it's about protecting the church's finances and is not an important issue of morality like child abuse is. If anything concentrating on the Vatican bank highlights the lack of action or concern about child abuse.
 
2014-01-16 09:24:32 AM  

drb9: kqc7011: This is the proverbial "pot calling the kettle black".
http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/when-those-meant-to -k eep-the-peace-commit-sexualized-violence

came here to post THIS!


How is that relevant?
 
2014-01-16 09:33:44 AM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: drb9: kqc7011: This is the proverbial "pot calling the kettle black".
http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/when-those-meant-to -k eep-the-peace-commit-sexualized-violence

came here to post THIS!

How is that relevant?


I think its trying to draw false equivalence. The article itself shows that the UN's poor response is still miles ahead of the Vatican's non response and progressing.
Interestingly the Vatican has far more authority over its followers than the UN does over its member states and still can't won't do anything beyond make a bit of noise.
 
2014-01-16 09:35:27 AM  
So, being a priest is just another profession?
When I was in Catholic grammar school, I was told that the priest was special, changed by God so that now he became the vessel through which lay people got to heaven.

But when a bishop goes to court, all of a sudden they get all secular and the priesthood is "just another job"....
 
2014-01-16 09:36:30 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: For what it's worth, most of the changes put forth by this pope have been good.


I'll agree to that....

Except, what changes has he done?  Find one, report back.
 
2014-01-16 09:43:13 AM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: drb9: kqc7011: This is the proverbial "pot calling the kettle black".
http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/when-those-meant-to -k eep-the-peace-commit-sexualized-violence

came here to post THIS!

How is that relevant?


I think it's called "turning the other cheek"
 
2014-01-16 09:47:33 AM  
Honestly, I would be willing to give the Pope a little bit of a pass on this for a little while longer. He has been at this less than a year, and I can easily see both why a plan to deal with this could take that long to implement (because there are likely a great many records that need to be sifted through, many of which are probably not computerized), and why it would need to be done in secret (to prevent records from being destroyed before they are found).

I have trouble imagining a plan that would take more than a year or so before beginning to bear visible fruit. It will not be long before I, too, demand to start seeing evidence that something is being done. But not quite yet.
 
2014-01-16 09:59:43 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-01-16 10:11:27 AM  

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Benevolent Misanthrope: This is absolutely the smartest thing the RC did, in history.  The Vatican retains "moral authority" over its billions of adherents - meaning they'll obey or spend eternity in hell.  But when there's something to be held accountable for, the Vatican says, "Not us, they're their own thing!  Can't pin anything on us."  Meanwhile the bishops say, "We do what the Holy See tells us to.  It's all codified."  They've played this shell game for centuries, consciously, and it's always worked well for them.

It's basically the same argument which has been used to allow individual dioceses in the US to declare bankruptcy to avoid having to pay out settlements to victims of their priests, while the Catholic church remains the wealthiest corporation in the world.


If the Vatican was involved, then yes, they should pay out according to what their involvement was, but if it's just bad decisions made by a local bishop or priest, I don't see why assets half a world away should be sold off to private collectors to satisfy lawsuits.  I think everyone would agree that if a priest in, say, South America embezzled money or squandered it, that should have nothing to do with the church in Rome or anywhere else but there's something about these child sex cases that brings out the torches and pitchforks in people.  Some people won't be satisfied until the church is burned to the ground.

/atheist
 
2014-01-16 12:03:09 PM  
UN asks Vatican why it is still covering up child abuse

Yeah, but look over there!  Poor people!!!
 
2014-01-16 12:21:54 PM  

Joe Blowme: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 320x197]


Well, can't beat this
 
2014-01-16 12:39:28 PM  

Persnickety: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Benevolent Misanthrope: This is absolutely the smartest thing the RC did, in history.  The Vatican retains "moral authority" over its billions of adherents - meaning they'll obey or spend eternity in hell.  But when there's something to be held accountable for, the Vatican says, "Not us, they're their own thing!  Can't pin anything on us."  Meanwhile the bishops say, "We do what the Holy See tells us to.  It's all codified."  They've played this shell game for centuries, consciously, and it's always worked well for them.

It's basically the same argument which has been used to allow individual dioceses in the US to declare bankruptcy to avoid having to pay out settlements to victims of their priests, while the Catholic church remains the wealthiest corporation in the world.

If the Vatican was involved, then yes, they should pay out according to what their involvement was, but if it's just bad decisions made by a local bishop or priest, I don't see why assets half a world away should be sold off to private collectors to satisfy lawsuits.  I think everyone would agree that if a priest in, say, South America embezzled money or squandered it, that should have nothing to do with the church in Rome or anywhere else but there's something about these child sex cases that brings out the torches and pitchforks in people.  Some people won't be satisfied until the church is burned to the ground.

/atheist


Perhaps, but those priests then miraculously are re-employed elsewhere in the organization. Here is an "extreme hyperbole" example

It would be like if your child is killed on a poorly maintained playground equipment at a McDonalds, you're awarded $10 million in damages, so McDonalds caims "Okay, that one location is declaring bankruptcy. You get nothing. By the way, all the managers and employees of that location are now employed at our NEW McDonalds location one block over."
 
2014-01-16 01:31:45 PM  

maddogdelta: Except, what changes has he done? Find one, report back.


You mean like forming the committee to deal with the abuse, which is currently investigating a Polish Archbishop? Or you mean like the firing of the bank officials that were put in place by his predecessor? Or how he basically tried telling his followers to mellow out on the dogma crap and be nicer to each other and leading by example?
 
2014-01-16 03:22:45 PM  

Securitywyrm: Persnickety: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Benevolent Misanthrope: This is absolutely the smartest thing the RC did, in history.  The Vatican retains "moral authority" over its billions of adherents - meaning they'll obey or spend eternity in hell.  But when there's something to be held accountable for, the Vatican says, "Not us, they're their own thing!  Can't pin anything on us."  Meanwhile the bishops say, "We do what the Holy See tells us to.  It's all codified."  They've played this shell game for centuries, consciously, and it's always worked well for them.

It's basically the same argument which has been used to allow individual dioceses in the US to declare bankruptcy to avoid having to pay out settlements to victims of their priests, while the Catholic church remains the wealthiest corporation in the world.

If the Vatican was involved, then yes, they should pay out according to what their involvement was, but if it's just bad decisions made by a local bishop or priest, I don't see why assets half a world away should be sold off to private collectors to satisfy lawsuits.  I think everyone would agree that if a priest in, say, South America embezzled money or squandered it, that should have nothing to do with the church in Rome or anywhere else but there's something about these child sex cases that brings out the torches and pitchforks in people.  Some people won't be satisfied until the church is burned to the ground.

/atheist

Perhaps, but those priests then miraculously are re-employed elsewhere in the organization. Here is an "extreme hyperbole" example

It would be like if your child is killed on a poorly maintained playground equipment at a McDonalds, you're awarded $10 million in damages, so McDonalds caims "Okay, that one location is declaring bankruptcy. You get nothing. By the way, all the managers and employees of that location are now employed at our NEW  otherMcDonalds location one block over."


FTFY
 
2014-01-16 07:29:40 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: For what it's worth, most of the changes put forth by this pope have been good. That he hasn't gone on to satisfy every single claim against the Church isn't a failing of his, but a reminder just how far the Church has been dragged down by his predecessors.

Go get 'em, Francis!


Maybe, but then why didn't he start by attacking the biggest problem the church has? Do something for the children, rather than making a bunch of phone calls and looking cute?

Best thing he could do is tell the entire hierarchy "If you abuse or cover up abuse, we're cutting you loose and handing you to the cops". All cases of abuse to be handed straight to the cops, and full cooperation given, or those responsible for the failure to do so will also be handed over.

It's not that difficult. Hell, they can still pay for their representation, and even give them pastoral support. But if they impede the investigation, or drag their heels, fark 'em.

If Francis would only do that, I'd be all for him. Until then, he's just a cute old man in charge of a virulent paedophile ring.
 
2014-01-16 08:49:49 PM  

Jesus McSordid: AverageAmericanGuy: For what it's worth, most of the changes put forth by this pope have been good. That he hasn't gone on to satisfy every single claim against the Church isn't a failing of his, but a reminder just how far the Church has been dragged down by his predecessors.

Go get 'em, Francis!

Maybe, but then why didn't he start by attacking the biggest problem the church has? Do something for the children, rather than making a bunch of phone calls and looking cute?

Best thing he could do is tell the entire hierarchy "If you abuse or cover up abuse, we're cutting you loose and handing you to the cops". All cases of abuse to be handed straight to the cops, and full cooperation given, or those responsible for the failure to do so will also be handed over.

It's not that difficult. Hell, they can still pay for their representation, and even give them pastoral support. But if they impede the investigation, or drag their heels, fark 'em.

If Francis would only do that, I'd be all for him. Until then, he's just a cute old man in charge of a virulent paedophile ring.


Like this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pope-francis-catholic-church-pun is h-pedophile-priests-article-1.1308895
Or like this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/world/europe/pope-setting-up-commi ss ion-on-clerical-child-abuse.html?_r=0
 
2014-01-16 09:19:00 PM  

jrodr018: Jesus McSordid:
Best thing he could do is tell the entire hierarchy "If you abuse or cover up abuse, we're cutting you loose and handing you to the cops". All cases of abuse to be handed straight to the cops, and full cooperation given, or those responsible for the failure to do so will also be handed over.

It's not that difficult. Hell, they can still pay for their representation, and even give them pastoral support. But if they impede the investigation, or drag their heels, fark 'em.

If Francis would only do that, I'd be all for him. Until then, he's just a cute old man in charge of a virulent paedophile ring.

Like this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pope-francis-catholic-church-pun is h-pedophile-priests-article-1.1308895
Or like this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/world/europe/pope-setting-up-commi ss ion-on-clerical-child-abuse.html?_r=0


No, not a bit like that. The church can't keep conducting its own in-house investigations and keeping the cops out. They need to give up on the idea that they are different from other organisations and let the police do the investigating. Anything else is just more covering up.

Why the fark any parent would take an abuse case to the church instead of the cops, I'll never know. But it seems they're still doing it.
 
2014-01-16 09:23:12 PM  

Jesus McSordid: jrodr018: Jesus McSordid:
Best thing he could do is tell the entire hierarchy "If you abuse or cover up abuse, we're cutting you loose and handing you to the cops". All cases of abuse to be handed straight to the cops, and full cooperation given, or those responsible for the failure to do so will also be handed over.

It's not that difficult. Hell, they can still pay for their representation, and even give them pastoral support. But if they impede the investigation, or drag their heels, fark 'em.

If Francis would only do that, I'd be all for him. Until then, he's just a cute old man in charge of a virulent paedophile ring.

Like this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pope-francis-catholic-church-pun is h-pedophile-priests-article-1.1308895
Or like this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/world/europe/pope-setting-up-commi ss ion-on-clerical-child-abuse.html?_r=0

No, not a bit like that. The church can't keep conducting its own in-house investigations and keeping the cops out. They need to give up on the idea that they are different from other organisations and let the police do the investigating. Anything else is just more covering up.

Why the fark any parent would take an abuse case to the church instead of the cops, I'll never know. But it seems they're still doing it.


Where is he saying that cops should not be included (or excluded) from investigations?
 
2014-01-16 09:26:06 PM  

jrodr018: Jesus McSordid: jrodr018: Jesus McSordid:
Best thing he could do is tell the entire hierarchy "If you abuse or cover up abuse, we're cutting you loose and handing you to the cops". All cases of abuse to be handed straight to the cops, and full cooperation given, or those responsible for the failure to do so will also be handed over.

It's not that difficult. Hell, they can still pay for their representation, and even give them pastoral support. But if they impede the investigation, or drag their heels, fark 'em.

If Francis would only do that, I'd be all for him. Until then, he's just a cute old man in charge of a virulent paedophile ring.

Like this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pope-francis-catholic-church-pun is h-pedophile-priests-article-1.1308895
Or like this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/world/europe/pope-setting-up-commi ss ion-on-clerical-child-abuse.html?_r=0

No, not a bit like that. The church can't keep conducting its own in-house investigations and keeping the cops out. They need to give up on the idea that they are different from other organisations and let the police do the investigating. Anything else is just more covering up.

Why the fark any parent would take an abuse case to the church instead of the cops, I'll never know. But it seems they're still doing it.

Where is he saying that cops should not be included (or excluded) from investigations?


Matthew 7:6, jrodr.
 
2014-01-16 09:45:52 PM  

jrodr018: Where is he saying that cops should not be included (or excluded) from investigations?


Where is he saying that they  must? Which is what I was saying that he had to do. It's not just about telling these bastards to stop diddling children. They have to stop being special and help the cops to do their job. That's what I was saying.
 
2014-01-17 04:26:45 PM  
Hey Subby - I just want to point out that the Pope is not Puerto Rican - he is from Argentina.
 
Displayed 30 of 30 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report