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(Guardian)   It turns out there's a middle-eastern country with a stockpile of nukes that includes weapons-grade uranium stolen from a processing plant in Pennsylvania   (theguardian.com) divider line 120
    More: Spiffy, Pennsylvania, stockpiles, International Atomic Energy Agency, Observer-Reporter, nuclear weapons, computer worm, uranium, fissile material  
•       •       •

11104 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2014 at 6:35 AM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-16 07:46:41 AM
This is news? The only question is whether the US will continue to stand with it's ally, or eventually go over to supporting the Arabs, et al.

Zechariah 14: 2 "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem..."

                 14:3 "Then the Lord will go forth, and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle..."

                 14:12  "And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
                           Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
                           Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
                           And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

In another translation it talks about the flesh flying off before the bones hit the ground. Neutron weapons, anyone? Better get your thermal underwear on.

With the re-establishment of Israel and this administration's cozying up to "alternative" policies, it's coming, and coming fast (relatively speaking). I hope I'm not around, but I fear for my kids.
Please take a moment to point out how batsh#@ crazy you think I am.
 
2014-01-16 07:49:24 AM

Slaxl: It's not about their reasons. They have perfectly good reasons for wanting them, I don't dispute that, no one does, what I say is that fark 'em, they can't be allowed to have nukes. Having nukes isn't a right that all nations have, and it's not something we should be fair about, "oh he's got one so you get one too".


While that may be your opinion, it's not a valid, logical reason for telling them they can't have them. If you can't reach an agreement with someone based on reason then the only thing you have left is to be the bully and enforce your will by displays of strength.

That doesn't seem like a good long term solution when you're talking about nuclear brinksmanship.
 
2014-01-16 07:51:25 AM

Slaxl: HotWingConspiracy: Slaxl: Does it matter? Iran with nukes is a terrible idea, Israel has shown that they can have nukes and not go mad nuking everyone.

So you're saying they're mostly for defensive posturing? I can't imagine why Iran, whom Israel frequently threatens with attack, would want such things.

It's not about their reasons. They have perfectly good reasons for wanting them, I don't dispute that, no one does, what I say is that fark 'em, they can't be allowed to have nukes. Having nukes isn't a right that all nations have,


Yeah that's not exactly a settled notion.

 and it's not something we should be fair about, "oh he's got one so you get one too".

As the only nation that has actually abused the privilege, we should probably give ours up. Can't really be trusted with them.

Do you really think it's feasible to keep 70+ year old tech and counting away from people fully capable of harnessing it? What else should we ban? The PC?
 
2014-01-16 07:52:10 AM
bill4935:

 Now imagine if Bolivia or Laos or the Netherlands had stolen the Bomb from the US Army. Yeah, South America would suddenly have its own Great Lake.

I'm guessing you got a D in geography.
 
2014-01-16 07:53:25 AM

water00boy: This is news? The only question is whether the US will continue to stand with it's ally, or eventually go over to supporting the Arabs, et al.

Zechariah 14: 2 "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem..."

                 14:3 "Then the Lord will go forth, and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle..."

                 14:12  "And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
                           Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
                           Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
                           And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

In another translation it talks about the flesh flying off before the bones hit the ground. Neutron weapons, anyone? Better get your thermal underwear on.

With the re-establishment of Israel and this administration's cozying up to "alternative" policies, it's coming, and coming fast (relatively speaking). I hope I'm not around, but I fear for my kids.
Please take a moment to point out how batsh#@ crazy you think I am.


You're really batshiat crazy. History is littered with the corpses of doomsayers that died peacefully in their sleep.
 
2014-01-16 08:00:03 AM
Meh, give everybody a handful of nukes. Once they have the actual ability, then they come to understand the full responsibility. If Pakistan and India can both chill the fark out after getting them, then you can't tell me Iran wouldn't do the same.

Its cute that Iran rattles sabres now, but even their crazy ass dont want a retalitory strike. They just want to be respected, and as much as they haaaaate Israel, it has to scare the crap out of them that Jews have nukes.

I know this is radical thinking, but it worked in Pakistan vs India.
 
2014-01-16 08:01:00 AM

water00boy: This is news? The only question is whether the US will continue to stand with it's ally, or eventually go over to supporting the Arabs, et al.

Zechariah 14: 2 "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem..."

                 14:3 "Then the Lord will go forth, and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle..."

                 14:12  "And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
                           Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
                           Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
                           And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

In another translation it talks about the flesh flying off before the bones hit the ground. Neutron weapons, anyone? Better get your thermal underwear on.

With the re-establishment of Israel and this administration's cozying up to "alternative" policies, it's coming, and coming fast (relatively speaking). I hope I'm not around, but I fear for my kids.
Please take a moment to point out how batsh#@ crazy you think I am.


I don't know about bats*t crazy. This is exactly the kind of biblical passage that fanatics use to justify any number of atrocities. Any type of religion that is based on the idea of a chosen people is bound to see justification for just about any kind of violence. Their god sanctions it. Now that Israel has its legs under it, and has had a free teat to suck on all these years, it's grown into its own version of fascism.

Now you just wait for the flames I'll get for that last statement.

/encouraging are the dissenting voices in Israel
 
2014-01-16 08:01:15 AM

HenryFnord: bill4935:

 Now imagine if Bolivia or Laos or the Netherlands had stolen the Bomb from the US Army. Yeah, South America would suddenly have its own Great Lake.

I'm guessing you got a D in geography.


Because... Bolivia isn't in South America?

See, what I was implying was that the US would turn a landlocked nation in South America into a crater, which would then fill up with water. Because it's a country that doesn't have well-established lobbyists and a strong historical and religious connection for millions of Christian voters in the Bible Belt.
 
2014-01-16 08:03:07 AM

FnkyTwn: I know this is radical thinking


Hardly.

We are did it once. You young bucks just trust us, it wasn't a lot of fun.
 
2014-01-16 08:03:52 AM
Who knew?

Thanks Obama for getting this out in the open.
 
2014-01-16 08:04:00 AM
Spiffy, subby?  Yous trollin'

Seriously, I don't like the idea of ANY nation (yeah, even the US) having nukes, but definitely not one in such an unstable region.
 
2014-01-16 08:04:29 AM
Meanwhile, Israeli agents charged with buying fissile material and state-of-the-art technology found their way into some of the most sensitive industrial establishments in the world. This daring and remarkably successful spy ring, known as Lakam, the Hebrew acronym for the innocuous-sounding Science Liaison Bureau, included such colourful figures as Arnon Milchan, a billionaire Hollywood producer behind such hits as Pretty Woman, LA Confidential and 12 Years a Slave,
"Do you know what it's like to be a twentysomething-year-old kid [and] his country lets him be James Bond? Wow! The action! That was exciting," he said in an Israeli documentary.
Milchan's life story is colourful, and unlikely enough to be the subject of one of the blockbusters he bankrolls. In the documentary, Robert de Niro recalls discussing Milchan's role in the illicit purchase of nuclear-warhead triggers. "At some point I was asking something about that, being friends, but not in an accusatory way. I just wanted to know," De Niro says. "And he said: yeah I did that. Israel's my country."
Milchan was not shy about using Hollywood connections to help his shadowy second career. At one point, he admits in the documentary, he used the lure of a visit to actor Richard Dreyfuss's home to get a top US nuclear scientist, Arthur Biehl, to join the board of one of his companies.
According to Milchan's biography, by Israeli journalists Meir Doron and Joseph Gelman, he was recruited in 1965 by Israel's current president, Shimon Peres, who he met in a Tel Aviv nightclub (called Mandy's, named after the hostess and owner's wife Mandy Rice-Davies, freshly notorious for her role in the Profumo sex scandal). Milchan, who then ran the family fertiliser company, never looked back, playing a central role in Israel's clandestine acquisition programme.


This is the f*ucking story, you idiots.
 
2014-01-16 08:05:50 AM

bill4935: HenryFnord: bill4935:

 Now imagine if Bolivia or Laos or the Netherlands had stolen the Bomb from the US Army. Yeah, South America would suddenly have its own Great Lake.

I'm guessing you got a D in geography.

Because... Bolivia isn't in South America?

See, what I was implying was that the US would turn a landlocked nation in South America into a crater, which would then fill up with water. Because it's a country that doesn't have well-established lobbyists and a strong historical and religious connection for millions of Christian voters in the Bible Belt.


It also could be taken that you thought Laos and the Netherlands were in South America. You made a rather scattershot argument there.
 
2014-01-16 08:06:00 AM

HenryFnord: bill4935:

 Now imagine if Bolivia or Laos or the Netherlands had stolen the Bomb from the US Army. Yeah, South America would suddenly have its own Great Lake.

I'm guessing you got a D in geography.


"BOLIVIA" you dolt!

I keed, I keed!
 
2014-01-16 08:07:20 AM

water00boy: This is news? The only question is whether the US will continue to stand with it's ally, or eventually go over to supporting the Arabs, et al.

Zechariah 14: 2 "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem..."

                 14:3 "Then the Lord will go forth, and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle..."

                 14:12  "And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
                           Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
                           Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
                           And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

In another translation it talks about the flesh flying off before the bones hit the ground. Neutron weapons, anyone? Better get your thermal underwear on.

With the re-establishment of Israel and this administration's cozying up to "alternative" policies, it's coming, and coming fast (relatively speaking). I hope I'm not around, but I fear for my kids.
Please take a moment to point out how batsh#@ crazy you think I am.


No need.  I think you have covered your bat guano craziness adequately for all of us.  Because taking twenty first century geopolitical guidance from a bronze age drug trip speaks for itself.
 
2014-01-16 08:14:30 AM

GBB: Walker: I knew they were up to no good!
[img.fark.net image 336x304]

Patrick Stewart is looking good.


You know what.....I didn't even read the article. Just saw that pic on the top right and thought it was Patrick Stewart too.
 
2014-01-16 08:15:04 AM

gfid: Peace in the middle east does not revolve around Israel. Look at Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, every farking country in that region. Okay, a few of them aren't embroiled in civil war, but there's a bit of terrorism from time to time.


Nobody cares about that because Israel isn't involved.

Sadly, about the only thing that gets all the other groups to play nice is them.
 
2014-01-16 08:15:49 AM
Movie producer openly admits to helping to steal nuclear secrets: no problem

Snowden: BURN THE TRAITOR
 
2014-01-16 08:16:18 AM

GBB: Walker: I knew they were up to no good!
[img.fark.net image 336x304]

Patrick Stewart is looking good.


Came to say that.

SomeFarkinFarmgirl: How the hell is this "spiffy"?


...and this.  Leaving speechless...
 
2014-01-16 08:17:04 AM
Maybe they're just shiny bomb casings filled with used pinball machine parts.
 
2014-01-16 08:20:44 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Meanwhile, Israeli agents charged with buying fissile material and state-of-the-art technology found their way into some of the most sensitive industrial establishments in the world. This daring and remarkably successful spy ring, known as Lakam, the Hebrew acronym for the innocuous-sounding Science Liaison Bureau, included such colourful figures as Arnon Milchan, a billionaire Hollywood producer behind such hits as Pretty Woman, LA Confidential and 12 Years a Slave,
"Do you know what it's like to be a twentysomething-year-old kid [and] his country lets him be James Bond? Wow! The action! That was exciting," he said in an Israeli documentary.
Milchan's life story is colourful, and unlikely enough to be the subject of one of the blockbusters he bankrolls. In the documentary, Robert de Niro recalls discussing Milchan's role in the illicit purchase of nuclear-warhead triggers. "At some point I was asking something about that, being friends, but not in an accusatory way. I just wanted to know," De Niro says. "And he said: yeah I did that. Israel's my country."
Milchan was not shy about using Hollywood connections to help his shadowy second career. At one point, he admits in the documentary, he used the lure of a visit to actor Richard Dreyfuss's home to get a top US nuclear scientist, Arthur Biehl, to join the board of one of his companies.
According to Milchan's biography, by Israeli journalists Meir Doron and Joseph Gelman, he was recruited in 1965 by Israel's current president, Shimon Peres, who he met in a Tel Aviv nightclub (called Mandy's, named after the hostess and owner's wife Mandy Rice-Davies, freshly notorious for her role in the Profumo sex scandal). Milchan, who then ran the family fertiliser company, never looked back, playing a central role in Israel's clandestine acquisition programme.

This is the f*ucking story, you idiots.


Yeah, it is the story.


But given Israel's stance on peopelw ho talk abotu their nukes, I find it a bit tough to take at face value.

Not that I put shady deals or outright stealing things to get nukes bayond them at all, I just doubt a guy that involved with it would be talking abotu it.
 
2014-01-16 08:20:58 AM
rzrwiresunrise :
 "...This is exactly the kind of biblical passage that fanatics use to justify any number of atrocities. Any type of religion that is based on the idea of a chosen people is bound to see justification for just about any kind of violence..."

In Israel's case, it's not so much "justification" of the future as it's reaction to violence heaped upon it in the past and for a whole lot longer than "70 years". The Holocaust was the culmination of 1000's of years of anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe, with various diatribes citing them being Christ-killers, baby sacrificers, etc. Whether or not you subscribe to that view point, the amount of hatred poured onto the Jews for centuries is difficult to deny. Under those circumstances, if I finally got my own place, you better believe I get my a** the biggest stick I can find.

But no doubt about it, they unquestionably see their place in the Middle East, and the world, as predestined. But almost all religious people have some kind of "how it will play out" scenario in their head. You can bet all those other guys in their neighborhood have one.
 
2014-01-16 08:27:10 AM

dfenstrate: Ah, Albert Einstein, the noted statesman. Oh, wait....


Albert Einstein, who saw the Third Reich first hand, also wrote:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the ""Freedom Party"" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the  Nazi and  Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.
The current visit of  Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose  fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Full text here (pdf)
 
2014-01-16 08:29:40 AM
All of you lefties who think Obama and Hillary are the greatest thing since sliced, free-range, grass-fed, gluten-free bread need to look at the record and see how they suck up to AIPAC as much as everyone else (except Ron Paul-- the greatest American hero).

I do give credit to Obama for at least talking to the Iranians, while everyone else in DC, including his own party-- try and sabotage him.

AIPAC and their evangelical friends are more of a threat to the US than Iran, Syria, and the polar vortex combined.
 
2014-01-16 08:33:55 AM

rzrwiresunrise: It'd be one thing if Israel were a power broker working for peace in the ME, but they're not. It's been time to radically reassess US relations with them, and I can only hope that as more and more of these revelations come to light, we'll start moving toward an official realignment.

I fully expect knee-jerk Christian pandering pressured by self-serving AIPAC reps to present the most formidable obstacle.


Your attitude seems common but I think is based on the mistaken assumption that the US and it's allies are the "good guys". I do not agree with a lot of Israel's foreign and domestic policy but they are, on the average, a stabilizing force in the Middle East. Plus they don't go around arming every splinter group and rebel army that happens to be working against their enemies at the moment the way that some Middle Eastern countries have done and they way that the US and Russians have turned into a major industry.

/besides, a major war in the Middle East would be a HORRIBLE thing and if maintaining strong connections with Israel helps to prevent that then I'll count it as a necessary cost.
 
2014-01-16 08:35:58 AM
The west inviting a bunch of European Jews to take land away from the locals was... in hindsight a bad idea. (Yes, I know there were a number of Jews still living there when Israel was created).

Israel should never have been created.

... but we can't change history... it was. Now 70 years or so later we can't ship the Jews all back to Europe. Most were born there... lived there their entire lives.

There is an obvious need to protect the people in Israel.

However, we need to assert influence, and pressure on Israel to stop it acting like a bully and pariah state. The people of Israel are not evil but the country acts in an evil way. Understandably since they are motivated by fear.

It may be a democracy but Napoleon was chosen by a republican body. Hitler was elected. Even George W Bush was elected to one of his two terms.

Democracies can do bad things.
 
2014-01-16 08:52:57 AM

gfid: I'm not usually one to say "I stopped reading right there", but I saw something about "The Truth" and I looked at the URL and saw the guardian and yeah I stopped reading right there.


This is what made it suspicious to me:

A few years later, on 22 September 1979, a US satellite, Vela 6911, detected the double-flash typical of a nuclear weapon test off the coast of South Africa. Leonard Weiss, a mathematician and an expert on nuclear proliferation, was working as a Senate advisor at the time and after being briefed on the incident by US intelligence agencies and the country's nuclear weapons laboratories, he became convinced a nuclear test, in contravention to the Limited Test Ban Treaty, had taken place.

Actually, the double-flash detected by the Vela satellite had *SOME* characteristics typical of a nuclear test, but it also had some characteristics that weren't typical of a nuclear test, and the US spent a lot of money trying to confirm it was a nuclear test, and basically came up empty.

In fact, a report written in part by an independent, non-governmental panel of scientists including Luis Alvarez concluded that the event was most likely caused by a piece of debris knocked off the satellite by a micrometeroid.

I'm sure Israel has several nuclear weapons, but I'm also pretty sure they didn't test one in the waters between South Africa and Antarctica.
 
2014-01-16 08:54:36 AM

Uncle Tractor: willfullyobscure: Now that it looks like the murderous looneytunes fundie davening troglodytes are taking over,

[i560.photobucket.com image 590x768]



That typo in the date is bugging the crap outta me...
 
2014-01-16 08:56:41 AM

CleanAndPure: The west inviting a bunch of European Jews to take land away from the locals was... in hindsight a bad idea. (Yes, I know there were a number of Jews still living there when Israel was created).

Israel should never have been created.



I think that psychotic farker Winston Churchill got exactly what he wanted: a bunch of people shooting at each other. I think he looked at the Great Success of the Irish Free State and said, "If it's fun to watch the Micks blow each other up, think of how much better it will be when it's the farking Hebes."
Otherwise, why would he try the same thing twice?
 
2014-01-16 09:03:38 AM

water00boy: This is news? The only question is whether the US will continue to stand with it's ally, or eventually go over to supporting the Arabs, et al.

Zechariah 14: 2 "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem..."

                 14:3 "Then the Lord will go forth, and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle..."

                 14:12  "And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
                           Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
                           Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
                           And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

In another translation it talks about the flesh flying off before the bones hit the ground. Neutron weapons, anyone? Better get your thermal underwear on.

With the re-establishment of Israel and this administration's cozying up to "alternative" policies, it's coming, and coming fast (relatively speaking). I hope I'm not around, but I fear for my kids.
Please take a moment to point out how batsh#@ crazy you think I am.


Actually, deluded was the word that crossed my mind first.
 
2014-01-16 09:04:27 AM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Shalom biatches.


The Hebrew Hammer - Shabbat Shalom Motherfarkers NSFW as if you couldn't tell
 
2014-01-16 09:12:59 AM

CleanAndPure: The west inviting a bunch of European Jews to take land away from the locals was... in hindsight a bad idea. (Yes, I know there were a number of Jews still living there when Israel was created).

Israel should never have been created.

... but we can't change history... it was. Now 70 years or so later we can't ship the Jews all back to Europe. Most were born there... lived there their entire lives.

There is an obvious need to protect the people in Israel.

However, we need to assert influence, and pressure on Israel to stop it acting like a bully and pariah state. The people of Israel are not evil but the country acts in an evil way. Understandably since they are motivated by fear.

It may be a democracy but Napoleon was chosen by a republican body. Hitler was elected. Even George W Bush was elected to one of his two terms.

Democracies can do bad things.



You seem to have a poor grasp on history. (Hint: The U.S. did not 'create' Isreal, however we did vote for it in the UN.)
 
2014-01-16 09:22:21 AM

water00boy: In another translation it talks about the flesh flying off before the bones hit the ground. Neutron weapons, anyone? Better get your thermal underwear on.


That's not how neutron weapons work. The flesh is still on the corpses when they hit the ground.
 
2014-01-16 09:22:57 AM
Pennsylvania will be the death of us all.
 
2014-01-16 09:23:17 AM

Uncle Tractor

>>>> Slaxl: They're not a terrorist nation with a record of pandering to extremists by calling for genocide.
>>>> Israel having nukes seems no worse than France having nukes.

not_sure_if_seriout.jpg

Oh cute a Stormfront fan. Let me guess, your favorite book is "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
 
2014-01-16 09:24:13 AM

FitzShivering: This is why we have to be so careful with other countries.  If places like North Korea are allowed to have nuclear material unchecked, they'll be exporting it all over the world on accident just like we are.  No doubt, we are the only ones who should be allowed to have nuclear materials.


Nice.
 
2014-01-16 09:25:15 AM
Descartes
2014-01-16 07:07:05 AM


Thank God it's Israel and not a terrorist country. Got worried for a second.

These are the things I think about when I think about Israel's security. When I consider Israel's security, I also think about a people who have a living memory of the Holocaust, faced with the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iranian government that has called for Israel's destruction. It's no wonder Israelis view this as an existential threat. But this is not simply a challenge for Israel -- it is a danger for the entire world, including the United States. A nuclear-armed Iran would raise the risk of nuclear terrorism. It would undermine the non-proliferation regime. It would spark an arms race in a volatile region. And it would embolden a government that has shown no respect for the rights of its own people or the responsibilities of nations.

President Obama
March 21, 2013


Which is why he bent over like a biatch and caved to every single Iranian demand with no concessions.

My hero.
 
2014-01-16 09:40:50 AM

OnlyM3: Which is why he bent over like a biatch and caved to every single Iranian demand with no concessions.


Except that didn't happen.

No war for you.
 
2014-01-16 09:43:11 AM

Felgraf: water00boy: In another translation it talks about the flesh flying off before the bones hit the ground. Neutron weapons, anyone? Better get your thermal underwear on.

That's not how neutron weapons work. The flesh is still on the corpses when they hit the ground.


This.

Zechariah 14:12  "And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
                           Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
                           Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
                           And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."


The passage sounds more like a bronze age description of Ebola or one of the other fast acting hemorrhagic viruses.  Or someone on a bad hallucinogen trip.
 
2014-01-16 09:46:28 AM
water00boy: rzrwiresunrise :
 "...This is exactly the kind of biblical passage that fanatics use to justify any number of atrocities. Any type of religion that is based on the idea of a chosen people is bound to see justification for just about any kind of violence..."

In Israel's case, it's not so much "justification" of the future as it's reaction to violence heaped upon it in the past and for a whole lot longer than "70 years". The Holocaust was the culmination of 1000's of years of anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe, with various diatribes citing them being Christ-killers, baby sacrificers, etc. Whether or not you subscribe to that view point, the amount of hatred poured onto the Jews for centuries is difficult to deny. Under those circumstances, if I finally got my own place, you better believe I get my a** the biggest stick I can find.


We're pretty selective about the atrocities we like to acknowledge, and it's an odd argument you're proffering in light of the Bible's recounting of Israel's conquest of Canaan. Don't the Palestinians deserve their day too? Is the age of the atrocity a determining factor? Would we stand for armed assault by Native Americans? Surely they have as much, if not more reason to rise up against the US. The problems is the lack of consistency in application. Typically, the response to that is we as a nation have some tie to the fate of Israel because Christianity, etc., but that just supports what I said: religion serves as a justification for any manner of atrocity.

And remember that Israel tries to present itself as a rule-of-law democracy, but even a cursory search of news about Israel shows the opposite.

water00boy:But no doubt about it, they unquestionably see their place in the Middle East, and the world, as predestined. But almost all religious people have some kind of "how it will play out" scenario in their head. You can bet all those other guys in their neighborhood have one.

"How it will play out" is a little inaccurate. Of the religions we're talking about in the ME, it's not a question of how it will play out, but how the players have been anointed to carry out actions to bring about a certain outcome to their benefit. That's more about loading the dice than about just rolling them.
 
2014-01-16 10:01:16 AM

rumpelstiltskin: CleanAndPure: The west inviting a bunch of European Jews to take land away from the locals was... in hindsight a bad idea. (Yes, I know there were a number of Jews still living there when Israel was created).

Israel should never have been created.


I think that psychotic farker Winston Churchill got exactly what he wanted: a bunch of people shooting at each other. I think he looked at the Great Success of the Irish Free State and said, "If it's fun to watch the Micks blow each other up, think of how much better it will be when it's the farking Hebes."
Otherwise, why would he try the same thing twice?


I suspect the man who was in charge of Gallipoli might have been more interested in tweaking some former Ottomans.
 
2014-01-16 10:09:23 AM

DarkVader: NewportBarGuy: If you read Clancy's book and had any kind of a minor interest in reading about foreign policy, you know about this 40 years ago.

Which is about the point we should have put an embargo in place.  Not only shouldn't we be giving Israel aid, we should, by international law, be cutting off all trade with Israel until they give up their nuclear weapons.

The fact that every other country around Israel is one of the bad guys doesn't change the fact that Israel is one of the bad guys too.


Israel never signed the NOT. How can we hold them to a treaty they never ratified?
 
2014-01-16 10:15:13 AM

CleanAndPure: The west inviting a bunch of European Jews to take land away from the locals was... in hindsight a bad idea. (Yes, I know there were a number of Jews still living there when Israel was created).

Israel should never have been created.

... but we can't change history... it was. Now 70 years or so later we can't ship the Jews all back to Europe. Most were born there... lived there their entire lives.

There is an obvious need to protect the people in Israel.

However, we need to assert influence, and pressure on Israel to stop it acting like a bully and pariah state. The people of Israel are not evil but the country acts in an evil way. Understandably since they are motivated by fear.

It may be a democracy but Napoleon was chosen by a republican body. Hitler was elected. Even George W Bush was elected to one of his two terms.

Democracies can do bad things.


You can't take away land from locals who never owned it to begin with.  I believe 85% of the land was owned by absentee landowners in Turkey (I don't have the college textbook in front of me with this stat, so take it with a grain of salt).
 
2014-01-16 10:17:54 AM

Kibbler: Movie producer openly admits to helping to steal nuclear secrets: no problem

Snowden: BURN THE TRAITOR


Too bad Jewish dudes tend to be such crappy physicists...
 
2014-01-16 10:34:41 AM

Laobaojun: Felgraf: water00boy: In another translation it talks about the flesh flying off before the bones hit the ground. Neutron weapons, anyone? Better get your thermal underwear on.

That's not how neutron weapons work. The flesh is still on the corpses when they hit the ground.

This.

Zechariah 14:12  "And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
                           Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
                           Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
                           And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."

The passage sounds more like a bronze age description of Ebola or one of the other fast acting hemorrhagic viruses.  Or someone on a bad hallucinogen trip.


Hey Butt-head I'm starting to feel weird, I think I'm freaking out! This is cool! It's like everything's all weird and stuff, there's like all these weird shapes, it's sort of like, it's like... um like a music video!
 
2014-01-16 10:48:56 AM
Can't believe we're even having this dicussion.
Seriously out of the 3 below who do you think is the most sane, calm and least likely to commit mass genocide?

A)  Ali Khameini
B)  Kim Jong Un
C)  Binyamin Netanyahu
 
2014-01-16 11:01:23 AM
A few things,

1. Israel didn't sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.  So they never  promised not to have nukes.  Can't really hold them to a treaty they didn't agree to.  Iran did on the other hand.

2. The world has been fairly sure for about the last 45 years that Israel had at least a handful of nukes.   They haven't done anything super stupid or irresponsible with them.

3.  The tech was transferred during a period of time when there was a huge amount of arms being given to Israel as an open matter of policy.

4.  With their fairly developed tech base Israel at this point has the ability to build and develop their own program with very little trouble.

5.  Can you honestly say that having the plausible threat of a retaliatory strike hasn't prevented the Arabic countries surrounding Israel from invading/attacking them  on a regular basis over the last 40 years?
 
2014-01-16 11:40:06 AM

SuperNinjaToad: Can't believe we're even having this dicussion.
Seriously out of the 3 below who do you think is the most sane, calm and least likely to commit mass genocide?

A)  Ali Khameini
B)  Kim Jong Un
C)  Binyamin Netanyahu


Well two run prison camps, one runs race based prison camps. Hard to say really.
 
2014-01-16 11:42:39 AM

HotWingConspiracy: SuperNinjaToad: Can't believe we're even having this dicussion.
Seriously out of the 3 below who do you think is the most sane, calm and least likely to commit mass genocide?

A)  Ali Khameini
B)  Kim Jong Un
C)  Binyamin Netanyahu

Well two run prison camps, one runs race based prison camps. Hard to say really.



When did Iran start race-based prison camps?
 
2014-01-16 11:44:56 AM
Wasn't this a movie starring Morgan Freeman and Ben Affleck
 
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