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(The Daily Beast)   Girl Scouts USA defends the sale of dozens of historic Girl scout Camps to developers saying that girls just aren't interested in camping anymore. Besides, every minute those loafers spend lounging in a tent is a minute they aren't selling cookies   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 77
    More: Sad, General Services Administration, National Historic Landmark, CEO Diane Nelson, late-2000s recession, Adirondacks, loan sale, peaceful demonstrations, camping  
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3263 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 4:10 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 03:37:46 PM  
This is why I find it so difficult to give to charity. There are far too many crooked non profits out there that rake in millions, and funnel it all down from the top, the office people take in hundreds of thousands, if not millions, and only a small portion of the funds actually get used towards the stated purpose.

Normally I'm all for private charities helping people instead of more bloated government entitlement, but when the private companies waste just as much money as Uncle Sam, what difference does it really make?
 
2014-01-15 03:55:59 PM  
Fark them.
They have been riding the coattails for years.

I give to Campfire.
 
2014-01-15 04:05:56 PM  
It's too bad, my wife keeps telling me about the awesome time that she had at GS camp back in the day, she still talks about it. It would be great if kids could still have that experience.
 
2014-01-15 04:12:54 PM  
"I used to be in the Boy Scouts......until I got kicked out for eating a Brownie."
 
2014-01-15 04:15:35 PM  
I wasn't interested in camping when I was a Girl Scout, either.  Until I went.  Then, it was awesome (except for the latrines.  I'd rather have just went in the woods).
 
2014-01-15 04:16:37 PM  
Oh great...

Now the little green terrorists will have even more time to hang out in front of Wal-Mart.
 
2014-01-15 04:18:29 PM  

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Oh great...

Now the little green terrorists will have even more time to hang out in front of Wal-Mart.


We call them dealers.
 
2014-01-15 04:18:32 PM  
"MOAR cookies! less Camping!"

Way to help out with that childhood obesity epidemic GSA.


Time to burn the GSA and BSA to the ground and start over I think.   Neither is even a pale shadow of what they were when i was a kid.
 
2014-01-15 04:19:34 PM  
An easy way to increase camp attendance is to get cell towers installed in every location. So many kids and adults feel they need to be connected at all times and the only way to convince them otherwise is by actually increasing reception and therefore making that first step into the middle of nowhere easier. After that get them involved in activities where stopping to check their phone every 5 minutes would be a hinderance, like competitive games, water sports, and basically anything where they have to leave the fun to go wash the mud off their hands before they can reach into their pocket.
 
2014-01-15 04:19:44 PM  
Isn't that the whole point?  They aren't interested so you have these camps to take them and teach them about stuff and get them interested in it.
 
2014-01-15 04:20:01 PM  
My wife was the town director for GS for three years.  The cookie thing is a racket.  You pay $4.00 for a box and the troop gets 75¢ or 85¢ if the girls opt out of awards.  But cookies are sold by the case and our counsel required each troop (each school grade had its own troop) to order separately.  So if little Sally sold 13 boxes of thin mints you had to buy 24 boxes and if you couldn't sell the difference it cam out of your 85¢.
 
2014-01-15 04:20:36 PM  
Since when do the actual Girl Scouts sell cookies?

I haven't seen one in a long long time.. Just their insufferable helicopter parents hitting me up at work trying to push their crack cookies on me.
 
2014-01-15 04:21:11 PM  
That's why they're called "Girl Cookie Sellers, USA" after all...
 
2014-01-15 04:21:11 PM  
Kids don't need to go to camp when everyone they know is just a few button pushes away
 
2014-01-15 04:21:19 PM  
You figured they could have donated teh land to the park service or something. Would have looked much better in a PR sense.
 
2014-01-15 04:21:53 PM  

KarmicDisaster: It's too bad, my wife keeps telling me about the awesome time that she had at GS camp back in the day, she still talks about it. It would be great if kids could still have that experience.


My daughter is in GS. Goes to campouts, does a lot of service projects, and really enjoys it. She actually switched troops to a much more active troop so she could do more stuff. The dads and I took them out for a father/daughter campout too, unassociated with scouts, and we had a blast fishing, hiking, and (short) cliff jumping.

The experience is there, you just need a parent to lead it. That's the bigger problem I'm finding: in our neighborhood, it's always the same handful of volunteers leading packs/troops, helping out at the schools, etc. We need more volunteers to really take some responsibility. There are lots of ways to direct that energy.

Screw monetary donations. Go volunteer. A bunch of childless folks here could even go mentor stuff like First Lego League.
 
2014-01-15 04:22:09 PM  
It's sad, that after a century or more, the lasting legacy of the two organizations is:

Girl Scouts: we sell stale cookies

Boy Scouts: we hate gay people

They could have been so much more, safe and nonsectarian clubs for outdoor adventure, learning, and socializing.  But they've become so insular, pseudo-religious, and quasi-military.

/webelo
 
2014-01-15 04:23:29 PM  
Boy Scouts has the same issue. It's pretty simple really.  People give organizations land when what they need is money.  Land eats money. There are plenty of camps still around if the kid wants that experience.

and by the way...
 
2014-01-15 04:24:19 PM  

Far Cough: Boy Scouts: we hate gay people


and atheists.
 
2014-01-15 04:24:27 PM  
So now the Girl Scouts are basically coming out and admitting that they are a cookie based Amway-type pyramid scheme with an extremely wide sales base made up of pre-teen girls.
 
2014-01-15 04:25:33 PM  
Do kids even go outside anymore? Little fat asses just sit on their XBoxes all day now.
 
2014-01-15 04:26:18 PM  

Far Cough: Boy Scouts: we hate gay people


They started allowing gay Scouts a few months ago, and it was a pretty big deal. Where the fark have you been?
 
2014-01-15 04:26:46 PM  
My daughter was a GS in Minnesota up until about 2009, and then we moved to New Jersey a year later.  At the time the local councils had just merged and I never did hear what they did with all the camps.  My daughter attended camp at two of their locations West and North of the MSP area, and events at this little patch of woods in Fridley, just north of Minneapolis. I even went with her once or twice.   That place in Fridley was probably somewhat valuable riverfront real estate and worth selling since it wasn't really a campground.

But really, I think her GS experience was pretty good.  The local BSA was going through a lot of the same things and was planning to sell off one of their camps that was being surrounded by suburban sprawl.
 
2014-01-15 04:28:23 PM  

manimal2878: Isn't that the whole point?  They aren't interested so you have these camps to take them and teach them about stuff and get them interested in it.


The problem is the kids aren't getting to the camps in the first place. Parents aren't making them spend that first night away from home. Other kids aren't peer pressuring them into going. Other camps are more interesting.

They aren't turning away hordes of girls that want to go to camp. They aren't getting enough girls to go to justify keeping the camps open. So the girls that do want to go will have to drive a little longer.
 
2014-01-15 04:28:57 PM  
static1.wikia.nocookie.net
Look at my face...do you still think it's a great sale day?!??
 
2014-01-15 04:29:16 PM  

Fireproof: Far Cough: Boy Scouts: we hate gay people

They started allowing gay Scouts a few months ago, and it was a pretty big deal. Where the fark have you been?


Just because they let them join doesn't mean they stopped hating them.
 
2014-01-15 04:29:24 PM  
Wonder what part of "Scouts" the council "CEO" does not understand.

And another thing with non-profits, when did the operational leaders all become CEO's?  Really, you are running a program for the benefit of youth, community, etc but you feel the need to be CEO.  Bet they have all the nice furniture also
 
2014-01-15 04:29:32 PM  
I think Girl Scouts have a branding problem and they don't understand their constituency. They also face the problem that all organizations for kids are dealing with in that kids are spread incredibly thin.

Boy Scouts addressed this issue by essentially returning to very conservative traditional roots. They emphasize outdoor activities and conservative values and they have a solid constituency because of it. Sure, it creates more than its share of enemies, but those aren't they people that were joining the Boy Scouts anyway. If you join the Boy Scouts, you know what you're getting. You're out in the woods building fires and setting snares with a bit of service thrown in for good measure.

The Girl Scouts tacked the other way and attempted to adopt a very progressive, feminist slant to their activities. The problem was that the people that join organizations like the Girl Scouts aren't really the same people that support very progressive policies. You ended up having a progressive leadership and a more conservative membership and that always causes issues. It's hard for most people to actually identify with Girl Scouts as anything more than those kids that sell delicious cookies for way too much. As an organization, if you can't sell yourself as more than a cookie peddler and offer a tangible benefit derived from membership in your organization, you're going to lose out to dance, soccer, gymnastics, basketball and everything else on a young girl's plate.
 
2014-01-15 04:31:11 PM  

Fireproof: Far Cough: Boy Scouts: we hate gay people

They started allowing gay Scouts a few months ago, and it was a pretty big deal. Where the fark have you been?


Exactly my point, thank you!  I identified their "lasting legacy".  Perhaps you can re-read my earlier comment.
 
2014-01-15 04:35:04 PM  
Someone's getting paid. Simple as that.

Greenspan said companies were self regulating. But if you can run the company aground and get a once-in-a-lifetime payday out of it, so your grandkids don't have to work, that then is the rational choice for its leaders.

// Legal incentives all f••ked up.
 
2014-01-15 04:35:29 PM  

Cheron: My wife was the town director for GS for three years.  The cookie thing is a racket.  You pay $4.00 for a box and the troop gets 75¢ or 85¢ if the girls opt out of awards.  But cookies are sold by the case and our counsel required each troop (each school grade had its own troop) to order separately.  So if little Sally sold 13 boxes of thin mints you had to buy 24 boxes and if you couldn't sell the difference it cam out of your 85¢.


I had 4 sisters, separated in age juust enough that they all belonged to separate GS troops.  My mom wisely decided to get all her mandatory volunteering done in one fell swoop each year and was Cookie mom for all four troops, which meant our house became a mint-scented warehouse for about 6 weeks every year and I became a cookie stevedore.  It really did suck that we could have literally thousands of boxes of Thin Mints in our house at any given time and nary a one was free, or even able to be written off as "breakage".   The case policy really does suck too (though mom cleverly was able to reduce that for the troops by combining orders)  and had led to stories of girl scout troops having to literally throw away hundreds of boxes of cookies (though in my area they seem to get donated to the local food bank-a far better outcome).  It bothers me that the regional councils take such a ruthless and mercenary tack with their individual troops
 
2014-01-15 04:35:57 PM  
Do girl scouts actually sell their cookies?!  I thought it was just their parents.

/Harrumph.
//Get off my lawn.
 
2014-01-15 04:39:54 PM  
Also, getting rid of "cost centers" and beefing up "profit centers" - a very MBA-ish thing to do, but simple-minded in the long run. Good for quarterly profits though.
 
2014-01-15 04:41:17 PM  
Girls gotta get out on the corner and EARN!

//'daddys stable' just sounded wrong..
 
2014-01-15 04:43:48 PM  
Gotta love Xer's who grew up with the greed is good mantra hammered into them. Is it any surprise they have found a way to loot the freaking Girl Scouts?
 
2014-01-15 04:46:48 PM  

IkonOlator: Do girl scouts actually sell their cookies?!  I thought it was just their parents.

/Harrumph.
//Get off my lawn.


We make my daughter work to sell hers. She's 7, so she's got that cute kid thing going for her.
Damn straight she wants to go to camp and so outdoors things (and laugh some at the ones who can't cope with all that nature).
 
2014-01-15 04:47:43 PM  
Eh, the GS council here has run into this issue - they had to close the council office and sell off some properties due to lack of funds.  However, the GS troops are still going strong.  The property they sold got bought up by a conservation consortium, IIRC, and is still available for use.  There is still a very active GS camp nearby that both my girls go to every summer.  And while senoy is right in saying the GS have become a more progressive organization, most here are quite good with that - probably the benefits of living in a college town in the midwest - a good mix of liberal but outdoorsy types.

Cheron: Far Cough: Boy Scouts: we hate gay people

and atheists.


My boys are both Boy Scouts - and while the national organization may be hostile (yeah, they allow gay scouters, but not leaders, and atherists are techically right out), the local councils have a lot of leeway.  Ours, being in the aforementioned college town, has a troop that is probably at least 1/3, if not more, non-Christian.  Both my boys are pretty straightforward about their lack of religion.  Not a problem in our troop.  It's my hope that local change and acceptance like this will lead to national tolerance.
 
2014-01-15 04:48:28 PM  
Seriously, as invisible as boy scouts have become in society (you just about never see them doing anything, in uniform or otherwise), girl scouts may be worse, because as long as I've been alive the only sign of their existence has been those damned cookies showing up in random places.  I think the only time I've seen an actual girl scout selling them is on sitcoms.

Booster clubs and marching bands and honor societies and fifth grade classrooms are higher profile.  Again, I wish both clubs were far more transparent, welcoming to variety, less creepily insular, and active in their communities.  Maybe it varies by region though.
 
2014-01-15 04:48:39 PM  

JungleBoogie: Someone's getting paid. Simple as that.

Greenspan said companies were self regulating. But if you can run the company aground and get a once-in-a-lifetime payday out of it, so your grandkids don't have to work, that then is the rational choice for its leaders.

// Legal incentives all f••ked up.


Me- Rob, if companies would just do the ethical thing then we could have a far smaller government!
Long pause
Rob- But that's not human nature . . .
Robs a PhD in international business
 
2014-01-15 04:56:09 PM  
It has been interesting to compare Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts (my wife and I are leaders in each)...

When my wife saw the materials I got when I became a den leader vs what she got.  Basically, I had the option of using a minute by minute plan for every meeting for an entire year, my wife got a small pamphlet,  I also had to take several training classes (including child protection) and at most I think she has had to take one (she had to take one to take them camping but that is an optional activity in GS).

Also the quality of the camps is radically different. The camp my daughter attended had different theme weeks (like water park camp, horse riding camp (extra charge),  a go to downtown Chicago camp, etc) they didn't seem to have much that was focused on well, nature.  Also the staff at the camp was primarily European students who were here to spend a summer in America. (nothing wrong with that, but different) and they didn't spend any time working on things to advance in GS.   Boy scout camp (my son has gone twice, I have gone once) had the option to work on merit badges (shoot a gun, work with a metal forge and some other stuff harder to do at home) as well as had side trips for older boys to go mountain biking, rock climbing, etc.  My daughter (who is in HS and one of only three HS aged GS in our service area) has expressed jealousy in what her brother gets to do at camp.

I have to say after selling a lot of cookies, I do wonder what we get for the money.  Since the take is so low my wife's troop in order to raise money does their own fundraisers and events for younger girl scouts.   Every time they do something it is like pulling teeth to get approval from higher in the organization to do anything (like have a make a gift for mom and dad Christmas party) as an event (they tend to charge less and have better events than counsel we have been told).  The one time they did a thing at Panda Express to raise money (get a cut of the sales) the organization reacted like they knocked over a bank or something.

I could continue but suffice to say when you compare the two organizations in terms of how they run programs the BSA blows the GSA out of the water...
 
2014-01-15 04:58:15 PM  

Krieghund: manimal2878: Isn't that the whole point?  They aren't interested so you have these camps to take them and teach them about stuff and get them interested in it.

The problem is the kids aren't getting to the camps in the first place. Parents aren't making them spend that first night away from home. Other kids aren't peer pressuring them into going. Other camps are more interesting.

They aren't turning away hordes of girls that want to go to camp. They aren't getting enough girls to go to justify keeping the camps open. So the girls that do want to go will have to drive a little longer.


I thought to progress you had to get badges in certain things. Is camping not a required badge?

/never did scouts.
 
2014-01-15 04:58:56 PM  
My daughter was in girl scouts for a couple of years, and they never went camping even once.  The meetings consisted of sitting quietly and doing crafts, and while she loves crafts, to sit in seats all day at school, and then have to sit still another 90 minutes after school was just too much.

What she wanted to do is climb trees, fish, run, jump, bike, etc, which apparently was too much activity for this troop.
 
2014-01-15 05:01:11 PM  

What a girl that doesn't like camping anymore might look like:


georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu
 
2014-01-15 05:01:36 PM  
manimal2878

You can complete the entire GS program without ever spending a single night camping.
 
2014-01-15 05:03:13 PM  
senoy:

The Girl Scouts tacked the other way and attempted to adopt a very progressive, feminist slant to their activities. The problem was that the people that join organizations like the Girl Scouts aren't really the same people that support very progressive policies. You ended up having a progressive leadership and a more conservative membership and that always causes issues. It's hard for most people to actually identify with Girl Scouts as anything more than those kids that sell delicious cookies for way too much. As an organization, if you can't sell yourself as more than a cookie peddler and offer a tangible benefit derived from membership in your organization, you're going to lose out to dance, soccer, gymnastics, basketball and everything else on a young girl's plate.

Sadly this is already happening.  Our 5 yr old is in her first year of GS (Daisy).  Hubby is the leader (so proud of him for taking this on) and he is learned a lot about GS and how they work.  There are only 5 girls in the troop from 2 elementary schools and hubby has a difficult time getting everyone scheduled for only 2x month 1hr meetings because of dance/soccer/math tutors/etc.  (or their siblings are involved in those activities).  No one wants to host in their homes and we are unable to find space that doesn't cost money.  Add in the whole working parents and there is no time just to get together for a standard meeting much less any kind of field trip.

Lets not forget the progressive/conservative drama mentioned above.  Our troop co-leader left because we didn't have enough Jebus and she also couldn't attend any meetings later than 4pm (because Jebus - not kidding).   Mind you this is a very multi-cultural area and (news flash) not everyone is into Jebus and kids don't get out of public school here until 3.

Yes the "management" really pushes the whole sale cookie thing.  They have called/emailed Hubby quite a few times pushing, "when are you going to start selling cookies?"  Hubby has left that to each member if they want to do it or not.  He really wants to do the whole outdoors/camping activities but I don't think its going to happen (not for the lack of him trying). This is not what we signed up our daughter for and the troop will probably disband by the end of the school year.
 
2014-01-15 05:03:27 PM  
Proceeds from sales will go to building Obama Indoctrination Camps for Little Girls

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2014-01-15 05:29:30 PM  
I loved to camp as a kid. I didn't belong to any scouts, I would just pack a tent and supplies then head out on my own.
 
2014-01-15 05:53:53 PM  
Doesn't surprise me. My sister quit her local Girl Scout troop in protest and disgust after a year of putting up with the other girls and their mothers. The girls were required to do the same badge together as a group, and included such gems as "Babysitting Merit Badge."

Their definition of "roughing it" involved taking one of the family's RVs out to a campground with full utility hook-ups, and toasting s'mores over a gas grille.
 
2014-01-15 06:02:43 PM  
Girl Scouts don't want to go camping anymore? Fark 'em! Be a Swanson!
img.fark.net    img.fark.net
 
2014-01-15 06:30:33 PM  

phalaeo: I wasn't interested in camping when I was a Girl Scout, either.  Until I went.  Then, it was awesome (except for the latrines.  I'd rather have just went in the woods).


It was far less than awesome when I went.

I thought it would be camping, and we'd learn to put up tents and make camp fires and such.

Nope. It was rolling out your sleeping bag on a bunk in a building and eating cafeteria food. What kind of retarded camping trip involves wearing a skirt and pantyhose?

czei: My daughter was in girl scouts for a couple of years, and they never went camping even once. The meetings consisted of sitting quietly and doing crafts, and while she loves crafts, to sit in seats all day at school, and then have to sit still another 90 minutes after school was just too much.

What she wanted to do is climb trees, fish, run, jump, bike, etc, which apparently was too much activity for this troop.


That is pretty much how my GS experience went. It was awful. My mom forced me to participate from the time I was 6 until I was 10 and finally i quit. Also, I did not like the crafts to begin with. Sewing, making dresses, doing makeup. Just. No.

Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: Doesn't surprise me. My sister quit her local Girl Scout troop in protest and disgust after a year of putting up with the other girls and their mothers. The girls were required to do the same badge together as a group, and included such gems as "Babysitting Merit Badge."


Ah yes, the wonderful 'take care of children' badges. Knot tying? fark that. Learn to change diapers.

At least they got to toast marshmallows over something. We had to give our marshmallow on a stick to one of the leaders who would toast it for us so that we didn't get dirty or hurt.
 
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