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(Quartz)   When it comes to maternity leave, the US is grouped with the coalition of the where the fark are these countries   (qz.com) divider line 42
    More: Fail, Swaziland, Lesotho, Papua New Guinea, International Labour Organization, paid parental leave  
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5367 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 4:24 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-01-15 03:14:43 PM
9 votes:
One thing I have learned from living here is that any country that has more generous social policies than the US is "socialist" and any country that has less generous social policies is "repressive". Whatever policy the US has, right now, is the right policy.
2014-01-15 04:34:20 PM
7 votes:
For a country that's all "think about the children!!!" every time there's a nipple on tv, you sure have some barbaric social policies.

See also: the death penalty.
2014-01-15 06:06:44 PM
5 votes:

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Your problem is you haven't staffed enough people.  Don't know if that's your fault, or your superiors not providing enough of a budget.  Surprisingly, many, many countries in the world handle this without issue... in fact, pretty much all of them do, except for us and, like, Thailand.  Hint: you're not supposed to be running bare bones staffing levels.  This is why America is dangling over a pit.  We're stretching our existing work force far too much.  Chances are your employees feel this on a daily basis and probably hate it.


Exactly.

What do you do if someone wants vacation leave? Are people never allowed to take a week of vacation to do whatever?

What if someone gets a serious injury or illness? "Damn Bob for getting rear ended while sitting at a stop light?"

You need more people. I don't know whose shoulders that falls on. Don't get pissy at people for trying to retain their personal life. People are not numbers on a calculation that exist solely to be in servitude of a company. They have lives outside of the company. If you accommodate that and don't bust people's balls (or cervices) for daring to exist outside of work you'll get loyalty in return.

Once you realize that the company sees you as a disposable automaton you'll stop giving a damn and become a much worse employee. "Fark me? Well fark you back." Keep your people happy and they'll bend over backwards for you in return.

And, managers, farking listen to this. Buy your staff lunch every once in a while. Free, quality, pizza and drinks once or twice a month does wonders for keeping people happy and productive. It's a damn cheap way of keeping productivity and quality up.
2014-01-15 05:29:14 PM
5 votes:

smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.


Your problem is you haven't staffed enough people.  Don't know if that's your fault, or your superiors not providing enough of a budget.  Surprisingly, many, many countries in the world handle this without issue... in fact, pretty much all of them do, except for us and, like, Thailand.  Hint: you're not supposed to be running bare bones staffing levels.  This is why America is dangling over a pit.  We're stretching our existing work force far too much.  Chances are your employees feel this on a daily basis and probably hate it.
2014-01-15 06:19:26 PM
3 votes:

2chris2: Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?


Canadian here. Parental leave costs come from the federal employment insurance fund. My wife took a year with our first kid at around 55% of her salary. I have been paying into EI since I was 15 my wife close to that too. So I highly doubt anyone else has paid for her leave.

And even if I am paying for other parents I am ok with paying that if it means kids are better off and I am not paying for farked up kids down the road.
2014-01-15 05:45:57 PM
3 votes:

spiderpaz: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

The needs of men don't matter - haven't you learned anything snowflake?


Funny thing: a lot of those dirty socialist countries discovered that being too generous with maternity leave was hurting women when it came to hiring and salaries.  The solution that was discovered is family leave, especially where a certain minimum has to be taken by the father or not at all.  Families get to bond, men don't feel stigmatized for taking leave that's use it or lose it like they would for fully flexible family leave, and since it's shared a bit more equally, the hiring and pay disparity improved.  As a bonus,  studies found that the housework got more evenly shared under these models, as when only women were taking long leaves, the distribution of the non-childcare chores had a tendency to cement and carryover even after the mother returned to work.

In other words, paternity leave is a women's rights issue, too.
2014-01-15 05:27:20 PM
3 votes:
What's weird is there's this big concern with declining birth rates (we're below 'replacement rate', it seems), and the underlying concern especially with declining native white populations, yet the same people who fret about this situation do absolutely nothing to make it easier for families to raise kids.  It's utterly amazing to me there's no guaranteed maternity/paternity leave.  It's super-daunting to have kids in this country in large part because employers have parents around the throat.
2014-01-15 04:48:10 PM
3 votes:

Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.


Actually, daddy needs to take care of baby while mommy recovers from that C-Section or episiotomy.  Unless daddy is a loser or deadbeat.
2014-01-15 04:38:18 PM
3 votes:

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


I know guys who've taken months off for paternity leave, and I work in the legendarily soul-crushing video game industry.  Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'
2014-01-15 07:40:59 PM
2 votes:

Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.


No, daddy needs to make round trips to the pharmacy, do the groceries, take the older kid to the park while mommy-rests-and-no-honey-she-still-loves-you-it's-just-that-she's-tire d-of-waking-up-every-two-hours-to-feed-your-brother, do 6 loads of laundry per day, etc...
2014-01-15 06:28:46 PM
2 votes:
Seems to me this is a good way of finding out can actually afford to have kids without burdening others (taxpayers, employers, etc.) with the financial responsibility.


On the other this is a good way to buy more female votes by offering them more free stuff (free meaning others have to pay for it ), just like Obamacare.

Interesting how their body their business rapidly becomes everybody else's financial responsibility.
2014-01-15 06:25:56 PM
2 votes:
So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved.
2014-01-15 05:40:13 PM
2 votes:

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Much as it does not match reality, I can't really argue all that vehemently* with the belief that a kid should be raised by an at-home parent for a few years, and not sent to day care after 3 months, 6 months, a year, whatever.


The problem is that it's very hard to support a family of one or more children on one income these days. This was very different in the post-war era. See Elizabeth Warren's excellent talk on this subject, comparing real income in 4 person families in 1970 and 2000.
2014-01-15 05:01:37 PM
2 votes:

LemSkroob: I feel no problem not paying someone for not doing their work due to a personal choice they made in life that isn't an option equally open to anyone else.

I also dont enjoy taking on someone elses work, which they are getting paid for but not doing.

you want to spawn? Get your affairs in order first.


There's the USA we all know and love.
2014-01-15 04:34:26 PM
2 votes:

2chris2: Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?


There's a map in the article which tells you exactly that - it's a mix of social security, state assistance and employee liability depending on the country.
2014-01-15 04:27:28 PM
2 votes:
And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.
2014-01-16 11:10:14 AM
1 votes:
You want to be paid for firing off a meat anchor that adds exactly zero benefit to the company?  How bout no.
2014-01-15 11:50:28 PM
1 votes:

slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?


I'm a Dad who took the latter 6 months. One of the best experiences of my life geting to be primary caretaker and bond with my boy in the infant stage like that.
2014-01-15 10:53:56 PM
1 votes:
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

/three kids, saved up the sick time, used it, both wife and I got 100% pay for a month after each kid, and four weeks in we were MORE than ready to get things back to normal and end our baby break.  Remarkably easy to do when you don't squander the sick time on made-up illnesses on days where you just "aren't feeling it" or "recovering from the weekend."  Or to put it another way, many of you are worthless deadbeats and that's why your lives are such ongoing calamities
2014-01-15 07:06:26 PM
1 votes:
Had my son in 2011 in Virginia. Got 6 weeks leave at 60% pay, which was then taxed. Supplemented that with vacation and took another 2 weeks on top of it for 8 total. I worked for a very large corporation with 300,000+ employees here in the US and abroad.

I never took one day off or left early for doctors appointments, worked even harder than I did before, and worked up until the day I went into labor. I also put together an extensive plan for the people who would cover me in my absence, though that wasn't necessary. I still caught plenty of shiat at work for various reasons, mostly because I worked with insensitive, judgemental assholes.

Also, I had to pump at work 3-4 times a day because I breastfed for over a year. My managers and coworkers (women included) had a less than progressive attitude about that as well. It's not just the government that makes it difficult for mothers, though they most certainly do not help.
2014-01-15 06:01:57 PM
1 votes:

minuslars: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

A couple of military guys I know got paternity leave. I'd never heard of it elsewhere.


Paternity leave is not rare at all in the civilized world.

Québec, for example, has paid paternity and maternity leaves in addition to a 32 week parental leave which can be taken by either parent or split between the two.
2014-01-15 05:58:47 PM
1 votes:

NorCalLos: Not sure if this has been mentioned, but here in California, moms get 12-14 weeks of paid leave (6-8 weeks maternity leave and 6 weeks of bonding time) and dads get six weeks of "paternity leave" (it's actually called bonding time). If you qualify for FMLA/CFRA, your job is protected for that time as well and the payments are made through the same agency that handles disability/unemployment benefits (the Employment Development Department). I guess our high taxes and regulation are good for something.


Yeah, but it's not fully paid. It's 55% of your base pay, and it's capped around $1000 a week (which isn't a problem for my crap-salary-earning ass, but is less than 55% of my husband's weekly pay). So it's something, but it's definitely not that great in the grand scheme of things. My company lets me combine sick pay with disability so that I can earn 100% of my pay whenever I crank out a kid.
2014-01-15 05:58:28 PM
1 votes:

Bedstead Polisher: Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.


Yep, that's insane.  12 weeks too many.

Have a kid, get fired should be the policy.  All the leave you want, then.

On a more serious note, I'd be in favor of a mandatory 2x in your lifetime paid six months leave for everyone.  Want to use it to have a crotchfruit?  Sure, go for it.  Want to use it to travel the world, celebrating the fact that you have no crotchfruit?  Do that.  Have a vagina?  You can take the 6 months.  Have a penis?  You can take it too.

But there is no reason at all whatsoever to have some kind of special non-medical leave for squeezing one out.  You want to get paid for it at all, you'd better have sick days saved up.  Or start pushing for my leave for everyone law.
2014-01-15 05:54:16 PM
1 votes:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but here in California, moms get 12-14 weeks of paid leave (6-8 weeks maternity leave and 6 weeks of bonding time) and dads get six weeks of "paternity leave" (it's actually called bonding time). If you qualify for FMLA/CFRA, your job is protected for that time as well and the payments are made through the same agency that handles disability/unemployment benefits (the Employment Development Department). I guess our high taxes and regulation are good for something.
2014-01-15 05:46:38 PM
1 votes:

toraque: Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting.  The world is an entirely different place when you have marketable skills that are in demand.  Carry on with your thread.


There's this amazing thing called "empathy" through which you can consider the experiences of others without having to experience them yourself.  You should look into acquiring some.
2014-01-15 05:40:25 PM
1 votes:

busy chillin': abhorrent1: There's a woman at my work that had two kids in about a year and a half. She would take the full maternity leave, come back for a day or two, then take 4 weeks vacation. I say the leave should be on a sliding scale depending on how much vacation you have.  Take the vacation time first and fill in the balance with leave.

/I'm a man, can I have maternity  leave too?
//NO!

That is crazy. My wife had to use every sick and vacation day before she could get approved. So then she came back to work with no time off. But it was cool. I took a lot of time of and took the kids to the dr. There was a sign that said "Reserved for mom's with infants."

Yeah, I parked there. Didn't figure they mean to be sexist.


The assumption that it will be moms with kids IS sexist IMO. I hate to be that guy but, imagine if the sign said "Dads with kids". Some mommy blogger would take a picture and put it on facebook and there would be nation-wide outrage.
2014-01-15 05:32:00 PM
1 votes:

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: abhorrent1: There's a woman at my work that had two kids in about a year and a half. She would take the full maternity leave, come back for a day or two, then take 4 weeks vacation. I say the leave should be on a sliding scale depending on how much vacation you have.  Take the vacation time first and fill in the balance with leave.

/I'm a man, can I have maternity  leave too?
//NO!

You poor thing.  Men are so oppressed.


Of course men should get paternity leave. Dads are important.
2014-01-15 05:21:47 PM
1 votes:

big pig peaches: Yes there isn't a law at the federal level, but most states have there own laws.

You would have to look at every state to figure out how bad it is. Never researched it so I couldn't tell you, but the US was based on the states making these decisions for themselves.


According to the article, most, in this case, would be three. Three of fifty, in case you weren't sure.
2014-01-15 05:16:03 PM
1 votes:
*Sigh*

If you're poor, you quit your job when the nice gubbermint lady comes around and mentions how much easier life is on welfare (compared to your minimum wage job) and just how much welfare you qualify for now that you have a kid.

If you're upper-middle-class, you get weeks or months of (paid?) maternity leave because that's just part of the job description.

If you're rich, you don't work and you have a nanny anyways.

You only get screwed if you're middle class

/Middle class = too rich for welfare and too poor for everything else.
//Also, if you're trying to close the wage/unemployment gap, it's a really terrible idea to mandate that an employer pay you for a year of *not working* at some point.  Just saying.
2014-01-15 05:15:49 PM
1 votes:

AngryDragon: Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.

Actually, daddy needs to take care of baby while mommy recovers from that C-Section or episiotomy.  Unless daddy is a loser or deadbeat.


This. I went back to work the day after my son was born, because the boss "just didn't think he could manage without me", like a sucker I went. Three days later she's back in the hospital getting her sutures redone.

Kind of hard to adhere to the doctor's orders (no lifting, bed rest) when you're home alone with a newborn cause your husband's boss is a lazy biatch.

She got six weeks. Unpaid. Then had to double up the insurance premiums she missed by being out for 3 pay periods. I got one day. Unpaid. Then was refused unpaid FMLA leave because that meant my boss might have to run a route if someone else called out.

I wound up having to quit so she could recover from the cesarean.
2014-01-15 05:01:02 PM
1 votes:
12 weeks maternity? WHAT?! My wife had to use FMLA to stay home with our kids. NO PAY! Just the generous agreement they won't fire you in your absence.
2014-01-15 04:57:59 PM
1 votes:
I feel no problem not paying someone for not doing their work due to a personal choice they made in life that isn't an option equally open to anyone else.

I also dont enjoy taking on someone elses work, which they are getting paid for but not doing.

you want to spawn? Get your affairs in order first.
2014-01-15 04:46:46 PM
1 votes:
if corn farmers are getting paid to not grow corn, crotchfruit farmers should get paid not to grow crotchfruit.  fark subsidizing your mistakes.
2014-01-15 04:44:35 PM
1 votes:

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


You can get time off as part of FMLA (technically). It's not paid, though.
2014-01-15 04:42:45 PM
1 votes:

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


The needs of men don't matter - haven't you learned anything snowflake?
2014-01-15 04:40:57 PM
1 votes:

slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?


Sort of, the mother gets 15 weeks of leave to recover from the birth and nurse, then the remaining 35 weeks can be split however the parents want.  Adoption leave can be split too.
2014-01-15 04:39:12 PM
1 votes:

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?
2014-01-15 04:36:53 PM
1 votes:

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


You thought "Equal rights" meant they were actually equal?

i.imgur.com
2014-01-15 04:34:50 PM
1 votes:

libranoelrose: ikanreed: Australia isn't a 3rd world nation.

reading is fundamental


Oh.
2014-01-15 04:30:43 PM
1 votes:
Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?
2014-01-15 04:29:13 PM
1 votes:
'Merika! F*ck You!
2014-01-15 04:27:02 PM
1 votes:
Australia isn't a 3rd world nation.
 
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