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(Quartz)   When it comes to maternity leave, the US is grouped with the coalition of the where the fark are these countries   (qz.com) divider line 132
    More: Fail, Swaziland, Lesotho, Papua New Guinea, International Labour Organization, paid parental leave  
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5351 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 4:24 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 07:04:47 PM

mongbiohazard: toraque: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

I know guys who've taken months off for paternity leave, and I work in the legendarily soul-crushing video game industry.  Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'

You may want to consider the strange concept that your own personal experience is not automatically the same as everyone else's reality. Most industries are not like the video game industry.

I'm a professional working for the global leader in my industry. My company offers no paternity or maternity leave. They simply promise not to fire you while you're out, and you get to use up your vacation and sick time to pay your bills while you're out for a certain amount of time. Fathers get the same "generous offer", just the time limit is much shorter.


Yeah, that's why I didn't claim that my experience was the same as everyone else's.  I simply put my experience out as an anecdote, since many people seem to believe that if a thing is not mandated by law, it can't exist.  The 'marketable skills' comment was just in response to someone being condescending.

Outside of this industry, I've worked software dev for a number of other big companies, and most places I've worked at or interviewed at have had paid maternity/paternity leave as part of the benefits package IIRC.
 
2014-01-15 07:06:26 PM
Had my son in 2011 in Virginia. Got 6 weeks leave at 60% pay, which was then taxed. Supplemented that with vacation and took another 2 weeks on top of it for 8 total. I worked for a very large corporation with 300,000+ employees here in the US and abroad.

I never took one day off or left early for doctors appointments, worked even harder than I did before, and worked up until the day I went into labor. I also put together an extensive plan for the people who would cover me in my absence, though that wasn't necessary. I still caught plenty of shiat at work for various reasons, mostly because I worked with insensitive, judgemental assholes.

Also, I had to pump at work 3-4 times a day because I breastfed for over a year. My managers and coworkers (women included) had a less than progressive attitude about that as well. It's not just the government that makes it difficult for mothers, though they most certainly do not help.
 
2014-01-15 07:40:59 PM

Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.


No, daddy needs to make round trips to the pharmacy, do the groceries, take the older kid to the park while mommy-rests-and-no-honey-she-still-loves-you-it's-just-that-she's-tire d-of-waking-up-every-two-hours-to-feed-your-brother, do 6 loads of laundry per day, etc...
 
2014-01-15 07:44:38 PM

Flab: Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.

No, daddy needs to make round trips to the pharmacy, do the groceries, take the older kid to the park while mommy-rests-and-no-honey-she-still-loves-you-it's-just-that-she's-tire d-of-waking-up-every-two-hours-to-feed-your-brother, do 6 loads of laundry per day, etc...


Misogynist
 
2014-01-15 07:48:16 PM

smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.


If you had a mandatory 12 month maternity leave, you'd have no choice but to replace a mother that's on leave, which would solve your problem.

I agree, though that in many jobs, it's not worth it to train a temp for 3 months, causing many employers to just say fark it we'll just suck it up.

Tl;DR: having longer mandatory leaves would help you, in this case.
 
2014-01-15 07:55:20 PM
I'm in the middle of maternity leave right now. 6 weeks fully paid short term disability followed by 6 weeks unpaid FMLA.

/husband got 2 days, what a joke.
 
2014-01-15 08:07:02 PM

highendmighty: ransack.: [qzprod.files.wordpress.com image 640x360]

Who is this lady? It just says Mrs. Carter

The mouse hover says Beyonce pregnant.


Well I guess I'm the only fool who didn't know Jay-Z's last name
 
2014-01-15 08:18:45 PM

stevenvictx: slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?

12 months? what if you have a kid every year? Do you never have to work again?


You have to work a certain number of weeks to qualify. If you don't qualify, you only get a percentage of the money.
 
2014-01-15 08:29:32 PM

minuslars: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

A couple of military guys I know got paternity leave. I'd never heard of it elsewhere.


My work, a social service non-profit, offers two weeks paid paternity leave. It's not a lot, but I realize how generous it is in the US.

It saddens me that there are jobs that don't offer a day of maternity leave and force women to rely on sick leave and unpaid FMLA.
 
2014-01-15 08:38:44 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Bedstead Polisher: God Is My Co-Pirate: Bedstead Polisher: Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.

It is ridiculous.  And what do they pay during that time, 50% of your salary or something?

Well according to the article, they get nothing. (Unless their employer is one of the few that does pay).

Jesus.


Basically you get 3 months of "We won't fire you for not being at work" and then you go back to work or... you find a new job. 

/good luck finding a new job.
 
2014-01-15 08:49:07 PM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.

Your problem is you haven't staffed enough people.  Don't know if that's your fault, or your superiors not providing enough of a budget.  Surprisingly, many, many countries in the world handle this without issue... in fact, pretty much all of them do, except for us and, like, Thailand.  Hint: you're not supposed to be running bare bones staffing levels.  This is why America is dangling over a pit.  We're stretching our existing work force far too much.  Chances are your employees feel this on a daily basis and probably hate it.


What he said. 

 It's not the sick kid's fault that you don't have adequate staffing. Stop being frustrated at mom/dad for taking time off to be a parent (which they're supposed to do unless you want hordes of little hoodlums running around) and get pissed at whatever factor is forcing you to stay at "skeleton levels". 

 In my case, it's the lovely school district with is a cheapskate to the point where we can't keep enough drivers on hand so I ended up working today while I was sick around a bunch of kids who probably can't afford to be sick (I work special ed). I'm not mad at drivers who aren't showing up for work, because most of them bust their ass day in and day out. I'm mad at the school board who sets the wages lower than every other district around (yes, they all got raises this year, we haven't had one in 6yrs. Our union is farking impotent.)
 
2014-01-15 09:14:19 PM
Start paying women the shiat wages they get in Europe, and they can have all the maternity leave they want.
There's a reason Swedish professional women make $25K a year.
 
2014-01-15 09:35:58 PM

spiderpaz: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

The needs of men don't matter - haven't you learned anything snowflake?


Actually as a misogynist I hate the idea of paternity leave. It is a way of holding men back so we can't excel in a certain area (attendance) so as to remain competitive with women are free to excel in other areas with no hindrance.
 
2014-01-15 09:43:45 PM

toraque: mongbiohazard: toraque: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

I know guys who've taken months off for paternity leave, and I work in the legendarily soul-crushing video game industry.  Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'

You may want to consider the strange concept that your own personal experience is not automatically the same as everyone else's reality. Most industries are not like the video game industry.

I'm a professional working for the global leader in my industry. My company offers no paternity or maternity leave. They simply promise not to fire you while you're out, and you get to use up your vacation and sick time to pay your bills while you're out for a certain amount of time. Fathers get the same "generous offer", just the time limit is much shorter.

Yeah, that's why I didn't claim that my experience was the same as everyone else's.  I simply put my experience out as an anecdote, since many people seem to believe that if a thing is not mandated by law, it can't exist.  The 'marketable skills' comment was just in response to someone being condescending.

Outside of this industry, I've worked software dev for a number of other big companies, and most places I've worked at or interviewed at have had paid maternity/paternity leave as part of the benefits package IIRC.



Video games dev and software dev are both tech jobs. Tech jobs are notorious for often having benefits packages most of the rest of us could only dream about.

Try working for a factory, or widget sales, or apartment management or any one of a jillion other industries that other normal, hardworking Americans do and the difference might shock you.
 
2014-01-15 10:16:26 PM

cuzsis: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.

Your problem is you haven't staffed enough people.  Don't know if that's your fault, or your superiors not providing enough of a budget.  Surprisingly, many, many countries in the world handle this without issue... in fact, pretty much all of them do, except for us and, like, Thailand.  Hint: you're not supposed to be running bare bones staffing levels.  This is why America is dangling over a pit.  We're stretching our existing work force far too much.  Chances are your employees feel this on a daily basis and probably hate it.

What he said. 

 It's not the sick kid's fault that you don't have adequate staffing. Stop being frustrated at mom/dad for taking time off to be a parent (which they're supposed to do unless you want hordes of little hoodlums running around) and get pissed at whatever factor is forcing you to stay at "skeleton levels". 

 In my case, it's the lovely school district with is a cheapskate to the point where we can't k ...


Indeed. I don't know what the financial climate has to do with being short staffed. The Dow hit an all time high this year and corporate profits are at massive levels Yet we have people willing to work for less and less, and wanting to bring everyone down with them.
 
2014-01-15 10:50:52 PM
In restaurants in the U.S., nobody gets any maternity leave, and generally speaking nobody gets any vacation pay or sick pay.  You come to work, you get paid, you don't, you don't.
 
2014-01-15 10:53:42 PM
"We should be more like (insert name of inferior country)".
"ok sure."
 
2014-01-15 10:53:56 PM
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

/three kids, saved up the sick time, used it, both wife and I got 100% pay for a month after each kid, and four weeks in we were MORE than ready to get things back to normal and end our baby break.  Remarkably easy to do when you don't squander the sick time on made-up illnesses on days where you just "aren't feeling it" or "recovering from the weekend."  Or to put it another way, many of you are worthless deadbeats and that's why your lives are such ongoing calamities
 
2014-01-15 10:55:03 PM
im still trying to devise a way to go on paid Modernity leave.
 
2014-01-15 11:26:32 PM

bahr: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

/three kids, saved up the sick time, used it, both wife and I got 100% pay for a month after each kid, and four weeks in we were MORE than ready to get things back to normal and end our baby break.  Remarkably easy to do when you don't squander the sick time on made-up illnesses on days where you just "aren't feeling it" or "recovering from the weekend."  Or to put it another way, many of you are worthless deadbeats and that's why your lives are such ongoing calamities



Yes, everyone who doesn't get maternity or paternity leave is a worthless deadbeat. How brilliant and insightful. Now open your window because it seems like your room is probably filling up with carbon monoxide.
 
2014-01-15 11:42:34 PM

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


My benefits included 2 weeks of paternity leave when I worked for a non-profit in Washington state. I'm sure it's not the norm, though, but it was nice to have.
 
2014-01-15 11:50:28 PM

slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?


I'm a Dad who took the latter 6 months. One of the best experiences of my life geting to be primary caretaker and bond with my boy in the infant stage like that.
 
2014-01-15 11:57:34 PM

Dwindle: Start paying women the shiat wages they get in Europe, and they can have all the maternity leave they want.
There's a reason Swedish professional women make $25K a year.


A) I won't even dispute your numbers because comparing wages between countries is a meaningless exercise.What really matters is what can this putative Swedish professional do with her take-home pay ? remember that she has no medical or dental bills, daycare is heavily subsidized, she has at least 6 weeks vacation a year, her education and her children's education is free, when she retires she'll have a generous government pension plan, etc...

Now, take an American professional and start deducting all the out-of-pocket expenses which have to come out of her take-home pay. I will grant you, though, that she probably has a bigger house and drives an SUV which she uses every single day for her long commute from a distant suburb.

B) Why Sweden ? why not, for example Australia, Canada, or New Zealand ? is it, perhaps, because incomes in those countries are competitive with the US while social services are considerably superior, though not as good as Sweden's  ? What about Switzerland where income is higher and social services far, far better than in the US ?


STRYPERSWINE: "We should be more like (insert name of inferior country)".
"ok sure."


You do what you want, but if I were you I would strive for the US to be more like (insert name of superior country)
 
2014-01-16 12:43:30 AM

smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.


I've been in your shoes. There's really no win; employees are due the time and upper management looks at you as salaried exempt. The expectation is that you work at least 40 with occasional extra. You don't think they budget you a skeleton crew because they can't afford more labor, do you? Occasional can end up meaning every day. Go to www.secform4.com and punch in your company's ticker, if public. You'll see where all those extra hours you put in go. Not really the employees fault.
 
2014-01-16 02:43:07 AM

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


There is no paid paternity leave in the USA, and "leave" is used in a pretend fashion.
 
2014-01-16 08:16:37 AM

capt.hollister: Dwindle: Start paying women the shiat wages they get in Europe, and they can have all the maternity leave they want.
There's a reason Swedish professional women make $25K a year.

A) I won't even dispute your numbers because comparing wages between countries is a meaningless exercise.What really matters is what can this putative Swedish professional do with her take-home pay ? remember that she has no medical or dental bills, daycare is heavily subsidized, she has at least 6 weeks vacation a year, her education and her children's education is free, when she retires she'll have a generous government pension plan, etc...

Now, take an American professional and start deducting all the out-of-pocket expenses which have to come out of her take-home pay. I will grant you, though, that she probably has a bigger house and drives an SUV which she uses every single day for her long commute from a distant suburb.

B) Why Sweden ? why not, for example Australia, Canada, or New Zealand ? is it, perhaps, because incomes in those countries are competitive with the US while social services are considerably superior, though not as good as Sweden's  ? What about Switzerland where income is higher and social services far, far better than in the US ?


STRYPERSWINE: "We should be more like (insert name of inferior country)".
"ok sure."

You do what you want, but if I were you I would strive for the US to be more like (insert name of superior country)


There can be no superior countries, so your argument is not going to sway him. Canada has commiecare, so everything else about it is irredeemably farked, and Australia and New Zealand are so far away they're obviously pretend.
 
2014-01-16 11:10:14 AM
You want to be paid for firing off a meat anchor that adds exactly zero benefit to the company?  How bout no.
 
2014-01-16 11:20:11 AM

sufferpuppet: You want to be paid for months while the rest of us get to do your work for you, just for firing off a meat anchor that adds exactly zero benefit to the company?  How bout no.


FTFY
 
2014-01-16 11:29:09 AM

ransack.: highendmighty: ransack.: [qzprod.files.wordpress.com image 640x360]

Who is this lady? It just says Mrs. Carter

The mouse hover says Beyonce pregnant.

Well I guess I'm the only fool who didn't know Jay-Z's last name


Which makes me the only fool to not know she was married to Jay-Z.
At my age, I've become very apathetic about pop knowledge.  I'm popathetic.
 
2014-01-16 03:25:00 PM

big pig peaches: Yes there isn't a law at the federal level, but most states have there own laws.

You would have to look at every state to figure out how bad it is. Never researched it so I couldn't tell you, but the US was based on the states making these decisions for themselves.


This. You can't compare America to France or Spain, because we were designed with a pretty big amount of state autonomy in mind. It's more appropriate to compare us to the EU as a whole- there are a few big things that apply to all of us, but most things aren't dealt with on that level.
 
2014-01-16 09:59:49 PM
busy chillin':

There's the USA we all know and love.

Of personal responsibility? you bet.
 
2014-01-16 10:56:56 PM
STRYPERSWINE: "We should be more like (insert name of inferior country)".
"ok sure."

You do what you want, but if I were you I would strive for the US to be more like (insert name of superior country)

There can be no superior countries, so your argument is not going to sway him. Canada has commiecare, so everything else about it is irredeemably farked, and Australia and New Zealand are so far away they're obviously pretend.


Yeah, they really buy it hook, line, and sinker.  Great marketing.  Very interesting to watch from the outside.
 
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