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(Quartz)   When it comes to maternity leave, the US is grouped with the coalition of the where the fark are these countries   (qz.com) divider line 132
    More: Fail, Swaziland, Lesotho, Papua New Guinea, International Labour Organization, paid parental leave  
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5379 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 4:24 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



132 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-01-15 03:14:43 PM  
One thing I have learned from living here is that any country that has more generous social policies than the US is "socialist" and any country that has less generous social policies is "repressive". Whatever policy the US has, right now, is the right policy.
 
2014-01-15 03:47:16 PM  
Yeah, but the USA has Christ on their side.
 
2014-01-15 03:50:02 PM  
In all fairness, women in Papua New Guinea die when they give birth.
 
2014-01-15 04:03:51 PM  
In Swaziland and Lesotho, aren't all the women married to the King?

So they do get maternity leave there.
 
2014-01-15 04:27:02 PM  
Australia isn't a 3rd world nation.
 
2014-01-15 04:27:28 PM  
And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.
 
2014-01-15 04:29:00 PM  
www.ritholtz.com
 
2014-01-15 04:29:05 PM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


A couple of military guys I know got paternity leave. I'd never heard of it elsewhere.
 
2014-01-15 04:29:13 PM  
'Merika! F*ck You!
 
2014-01-15 04:30:43 PM  
Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?
 
2014-01-15 04:32:18 PM  
Six weeks paid, now leave your newborn with a stranger and get back to work.
 
2014-01-15 04:32:22 PM  

ikanreed: Australia isn't a 3rd world nation.


reading is fundamental
 
2014-01-15 04:34:20 PM  
For a country that's all "think about the children!!!" every time there's a nipple on tv, you sure have some barbaric social policies.

See also: the death penalty.
 
2014-01-15 04:34:26 PM  

2chris2: Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?


There's a map in the article which tells you exactly that - it's a mix of social security, state assistance and employee liability depending on the country.
 
2014-01-15 04:34:47 PM  

2chris2: Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?


In developing countries, I think it's one of those things where legislation does not reflect reality.
 
2014-01-15 04:34:50 PM  

libranoelrose: ikanreed: Australia isn't a 3rd world nation.

reading is fundamental


Oh.
 
2014-01-15 04:35:26 PM  

2chris2: Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?


Everyone, through taxes.
/but, that's socialism, right?
 
2014-01-15 04:36:53 PM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


You thought "Equal rights" meant they were actually equal?

i.imgur.com
 
2014-01-15 04:37:20 PM  

2chris2: Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?


YOU do!  Your TAXPAYER DOLLARS (tm) pay for them, somehow (Probably through UN Agenda 22 or something) even though you don't live there.
 
2014-01-15 04:38:18 PM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


I know guys who've taken months off for paternity leave, and I work in the legendarily soul-crushing video game industry.  Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'
 
2014-01-15 04:38:55 PM  

pjc51: employee liability


That should of course be "employer liability".
 
2014-01-15 04:39:12 PM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?
 
2014-01-15 04:40:33 PM  

toraque: Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'


You're adorable!
 
2014-01-15 04:40:57 PM  

slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?


Sort of, the mother gets 15 weeks of leave to recover from the birth and nurse, then the remaining 35 weeks can be split however the parents want.  Adoption leave can be split too.
 
2014-01-15 04:42:45 PM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


The needs of men don't matter - haven't you learned anything snowflake?
 
2014-01-15 04:43:00 PM  
Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.
 
2014-01-15 04:43:46 PM  

Enigmamf: 2chris2: Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?

In developing countries, I think it's one of those things where legislation does not reflect reality.


Also, for developing countries, my guess is that you and I are the ones paying for it.
 
2014-01-15 04:44:35 PM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


You can get time off as part of FMLA (technically). It's not paid, though.
 
2014-01-15 04:44:43 PM  

Bedstead Polisher: Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.


It is ridiculous.  And what do they pay during that time, 50% of your salary or something?
 
2014-01-15 04:46:16 PM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.
 
2014-01-15 04:46:46 PM  
if corn farmers are getting paid to not grow corn, crotchfruit farmers should get paid not to grow crotchfruit.  fark subsidizing your mistakes.
 
2014-01-15 04:47:19 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Bedstead Polisher: Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.

It is ridiculous.  And what do they pay during that time, 50% of your salary or something?


Well according to the article, they get nothing. (Unless their employer is one of the few that does pay).
 
2014-01-15 04:48:10 PM  

Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.


Actually, daddy needs to take care of baby while mommy recovers from that C-Section or episiotomy.  Unless daddy is a loser or deadbeat.
 
2014-01-15 04:48:18 PM  

Hollie Maea: toraque: Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'

You're adorable!


Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting.  The world is an entirely different place when you have marketable skills that are in demand.  Carry on with your thread.
 
2014-01-15 04:50:32 PM  
Subby seems to forget that the USA is the GREATEST country on God's green Earth. That alone triumphs ALL graphs, charts, statistics etc!!!!!!

USA USA USA ........... AMERICA FARK YEAHHH! GO USA!!!
 
2014-01-15 04:51:47 PM  

Bedstead Polisher: God Is My Co-Pirate: Bedstead Polisher: Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.

It is ridiculous.  And what do they pay during that time, 50% of your salary or something?

Well according to the article, they get nothing. (Unless their employer is one of the few that does pay).


Jesus.
 
2014-01-15 04:54:57 PM  
Yes there isn't a law at the federal level, but most states have there own laws.

You would have to look at every state to figure out how bad it is. Never researched it so I couldn't tell you, but the US was based on the states making these decisions for themselves.
 
2014-01-15 04:57:59 PM  
I feel no problem not paying someone for not doing their work due to a personal choice they made in life that isn't an option equally open to anyone else.

I also dont enjoy taking on someone elses work, which they are getting paid for but not doing.

you want to spawn? Get your affairs in order first.
 
2014-01-15 05:01:02 PM  
12 weeks maternity? WHAT?! My wife had to use FMLA to stay home with our kids. NO PAY! Just the generous agreement they won't fire you in your absence.
 
2014-01-15 05:01:37 PM  

LemSkroob: I feel no problem not paying someone for not doing their work due to a personal choice they made in life that isn't an option equally open to anyone else.

I also dont enjoy taking on someone elses work, which they are getting paid for but not doing.

you want to spawn? Get your affairs in order first.


There's the USA we all know and love.
 
2014-01-15 05:02:00 PM  

AngryDragon: Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.

Actually, daddy needs to take care of baby while mommy recovers from that C-Section or episiotomy.  Unless daddy is a loser or deadbeat.


Mommy doesn't sound very bootstrappy.
 
2014-01-15 05:06:02 PM  
Rather than being a nation of the He-man Woman Haters Club, my guess would be that our laws were built in a society that "believed" that if a woman wants a baby she quits her job and raises it - not takes some time off to get it started and then go back to work.  Much as it does not match reality, I can't really argue all that vehemently* with the belief that a kid should be raised by an at-home parent for a few years, and not sent to day care after 3 months, 6 months, a year, whatever.

* There will be people below me that will however...
 
2014-01-15 05:07:52 PM  
The US had no mandated holidays, vacation, or sick leave.

So it's all fair.
 
2014-01-15 05:07:54 PM  

Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.


Ha! You're part of the problem!
 
2014-01-15 05:15:49 PM  

AngryDragon: Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.

Actually, daddy needs to take care of baby while mommy recovers from that C-Section or episiotomy.  Unless daddy is a loser or deadbeat.


This. I went back to work the day after my son was born, because the boss "just didn't think he could manage without me", like a sucker I went. Three days later she's back in the hospital getting her sutures redone.

Kind of hard to adhere to the doctor's orders (no lifting, bed rest) when you're home alone with a newborn cause your husband's boss is a lazy biatch.

She got six weeks. Unpaid. Then had to double up the insurance premiums she missed by being out for 3 pay periods. I got one day. Unpaid. Then was refused unpaid FMLA leave because that meant my boss might have to run a route if someone else called out.

I wound up having to quit so she could recover from the cesarean.
 
2014-01-15 05:16:03 PM  
*Sigh*

If you're poor, you quit your job when the nice gubbermint lady comes around and mentions how much easier life is on welfare (compared to your minimum wage job) and just how much welfare you qualify for now that you have a kid.

If you're upper-middle-class, you get weeks or months of (paid?) maternity leave because that's just part of the job description.

If you're rich, you don't work and you have a nanny anyways.

You only get screwed if you're middle class

/Middle class = too rich for welfare and too poor for everything else.
//Also, if you're trying to close the wage/unemployment gap, it's a really terrible idea to mandate that an employer pay you for a year of *not working* at some point.  Just saying.
 
2014-01-15 05:21:47 PM  

big pig peaches: Yes there isn't a law at the federal level, but most states have there own laws.

You would have to look at every state to figure out how bad it is. Never researched it so I couldn't tell you, but the US was based on the states making these decisions for themselves.


According to the article, most, in this case, would be three. Three of fifty, in case you weren't sure.
 
2014-01-15 05:22:20 PM  
I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.
 
2014-01-15 05:27:20 PM  
What's weird is there's this big concern with declining birth rates (we're below 'replacement rate', it seems), and the underlying concern especially with declining native white populations, yet the same people who fret about this situation do absolutely nothing to make it easier for families to raise kids.  It's utterly amazing to me there's no guaranteed maternity/paternity leave.  It's super-daunting to have kids in this country in large part because employers have parents around the throat.
 
2014-01-15 05:28:30 PM  

meyerkev: *Sigh*

If you're poor, you quit your job when the nice gubbermint lady comes around and mentions how much easier life is on welfare (compared to your minimum wage job) and just how much welfare you qualify for now that you have a kid.

If you're upper-middle-class, you get weeks or months of (paid?) maternity leave because that's just part of the job description.

If you're rich, you don't work and you have a nanny anyways.

You only get screwed if you're middle class

/Middle class = too rich for welfare and too poor for everything else.
//Also, if you're trying to close the wage/unemployment gap, it's a really terrible idea to mandate that an employer pay you for a year of *not working* at some point.  Just saying.


That's why you need a parental leave policy in which the government funds a guaranteed amount - mostly out of EI (employment insurance contributions) and the employer can choose to top it up.

I had a year at 97% of my salary for each of my two kids.  A lot of that came out of my own earlier EI contributions, and I had to sign a contract stating that I'd return to work for at least the same amount of time I took off, or else pay it back.  The only thing I had to do was up my medical coverage to a family plan, for $3.81 a month.

Now I had an exceptional generous plan, even by Canadian standards, but I can't believe how badly off American families have it.
 
2014-01-15 05:28:37 PM  
There's a woman at my work that had two kids in about a year and a half. She would take the full maternity leave, come back for a day or two, then take 4 weeks vacation. I say the leave should be on a sliding scale depending on how much vacation you have.  Take the vacation time first and fill in the balance with leave.

/I'm a man, can I have maternity  leave too?
//NO!
 
2014-01-15 05:29:14 PM  

smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.


Your problem is you haven't staffed enough people.  Don't know if that's your fault, or your superiors not providing enough of a budget.  Surprisingly, many, many countries in the world handle this without issue... in fact, pretty much all of them do, except for us and, like, Thailand.  Hint: you're not supposed to be running bare bones staffing levels.  This is why America is dangling over a pit.  We're stretching our existing work force far too much.  Chances are your employees feel this on a daily basis and probably hate it.
 
2014-01-15 05:30:34 PM  

abhorrent1: There's a woman at my work that had two kids in about a year and a half. She would take the full maternity leave, come back for a day or two, then take 4 weeks vacation. I say the leave should be on a sliding scale depending on how much vacation you have.  Take the vacation time first and fill in the balance with leave.

/I'm a man, can I have maternity  leave too?
//NO!


You poor thing.  Men are so oppressed.
 
2014-01-15 05:31:27 PM  

mjohnson71: AngryDragon: Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.

Actually, daddy needs to take care of baby while mommy recovers from that C-Section or episiotomy.  Unless daddy is a loser or deadbeat.

Mommy doesn't sound very bootstrappy.


Bootstraps are a little rough for sewing a taint back together.
 
2014-01-15 05:32:00 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: abhorrent1: There's a woman at my work that had two kids in about a year and a half. She would take the full maternity leave, come back for a day or two, then take 4 weeks vacation. I say the leave should be on a sliding scale depending on how much vacation you have.  Take the vacation time first and fill in the balance with leave.

/I'm a man, can I have maternity  leave too?
//NO!

You poor thing.  Men are so oppressed.


Of course men should get paternity leave. Dads are important.
 
2014-01-15 05:35:04 PM  

abhorrent1: There's a woman at my work that had two kids in about a year and a half. She would take the full maternity leave, come back for a day or two, then take 4 weeks vacation. I say the leave should be on a sliding scale depending on how much vacation you have.  Take the vacation time first and fill in the balance with leave.

/I'm a man, can I have maternity  leave too?
//NO!


That is crazy. My wife had to use every sick and vacation day before she could get approved. So then she came back to work with no time off. But it was cool. I took a lot of time of and took the kids to the dr. There was a sign that said "Reserved for mom's with infants."

Yeah, I parked there. Didn't figure they mean to be sexist.
 
2014-01-15 05:40:13 PM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Much as it does not match reality, I can't really argue all that vehemently* with the belief that a kid should be raised by an at-home parent for a few years, and not sent to day care after 3 months, 6 months, a year, whatever.


The problem is that it's very hard to support a family of one or more children on one income these days. This was very different in the post-war era. See Elizabeth Warren's excellent talk on this subject, comparing real income in 4 person families in 1970 and 2000.
 
2014-01-15 05:40:25 PM  

busy chillin': abhorrent1: There's a woman at my work that had two kids in about a year and a half. She would take the full maternity leave, come back for a day or two, then take 4 weeks vacation. I say the leave should be on a sliding scale depending on how much vacation you have.  Take the vacation time first and fill in the balance with leave.

/I'm a man, can I have maternity  leave too?
//NO!

That is crazy. My wife had to use every sick and vacation day before she could get approved. So then she came back to work with no time off. But it was cool. I took a lot of time of and took the kids to the dr. There was a sign that said "Reserved for mom's with infants."

Yeah, I parked there. Didn't figure they mean to be sexist.


The assumption that it will be moms with kids IS sexist IMO. I hate to be that guy but, imagine if the sign said "Dads with kids". Some mommy blogger would take a picture and put it on facebook and there would be nation-wide outrage.
 
2014-01-15 05:43:39 PM  
abhorrent1:But it was cool. I took a lot of time of and took the kids to the dr. There was a sign that said "Reserved for mom's with infants."

Yeah, I parked there. Didn't figure they mean to be sexist.

The assumption that it will be moms with kids IS sexist IMO. I hate to be that guy but, imagine if the sign said "Dads with kids". Some mommy blogger would take a picture and put it on facebook and there would be nation-wide outrage.


Seriously.
 
2014-01-15 05:44:16 PM  
STFU and GBTW, wage slaves. For America!
 
2014-01-15 05:45:57 PM  

spiderpaz: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

The needs of men don't matter - haven't you learned anything snowflake?


Funny thing: a lot of those dirty socialist countries discovered that being too generous with maternity leave was hurting women when it came to hiring and salaries.  The solution that was discovered is family leave, especially where a certain minimum has to be taken by the father or not at all.  Families get to bond, men don't feel stigmatized for taking leave that's use it or lose it like they would for fully flexible family leave, and since it's shared a bit more equally, the hiring and pay disparity improved.  As a bonus,  studies found that the housework got more evenly shared under these models, as when only women were taking long leaves, the distribution of the non-childcare chores had a tendency to cement and carryover even after the mother returned to work.

In other words, paternity leave is a women's rights issue, too.
 
2014-01-15 05:46:25 PM  

toraque: Hollie Maea: toraque: Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'

You're adorable!

Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting.  The world is an entirely different place when you have marketable skills that are in demand.  Carry on with your thread.


Really? You don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity? My husband has marketable skills that are in demand, and many of the major employers he works with - including his new employer, Oracle - don't offer paid leave, just job protection and California's basic state-sponsored Paid Family Leave, which all residents are entitled to, half pay for 6 weeks. I'm expecting a baby any day now, and though he'll be taking a month off, we'll be taking a bit of a hit to the bank account.
 
2014-01-15 05:46:38 PM  

toraque: Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting.  The world is an entirely different place when you have marketable skills that are in demand.  Carry on with your thread.


There's this amazing thing called "empathy" through which you can consider the experiences of others without having to experience them yourself.  You should look into acquiring some.
 
2014-01-15 05:48:25 PM  

Hollie Maea: toraque: Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting.  The world is an entirely different place when you have marketable skills that are in demand.  Carry on with your thread.

There's this amazing thing called "empathy" through which you can consider the experiences of others without having to experience them yourself.  You should look into acquiring some.


Yeah, but empathy doesn't buy your boss a new boat.
 
2014-01-15 05:50:41 PM  
It sure doesn't stop them from from having any fewer kids though.
Wonders how many kids would there be if they got free paycheck from it.
 
2014-01-15 05:54:16 PM  
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but here in California, moms get 12-14 weeks of paid leave (6-8 weeks maternity leave and 6 weeks of bonding time) and dads get six weeks of "paternity leave" (it's actually called bonding time). If you qualify for FMLA/CFRA, your job is protected for that time as well and the payments are made through the same agency that handles disability/unemployment benefits (the Employment Development Department). I guess our high taxes and regulation are good for something.
 
2014-01-15 05:55:37 PM  
Sitting at home today because my son is fussy.  unpaid.
 
2014-01-15 05:56:08 PM  

busy chillin': Hollie Maea: toraque: Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting.  The world is an entirely different place when you have marketable skills that are in demand.  Carry on with your thread.

There's this amazing thing called "empathy" through which you can consider the experiences of others without having to experience them yourself.  You should look into acquiring some.

Yeah, but empathy doesn't buy your boss a new boat.


Or an entire island, in Oracle's insane CEO's case.

/I heard he pits interns against each other in battles to the death to see which continues for another semester
 
2014-01-15 05:57:20 PM  

NorCalLos: Not sure if this has been mentioned, but here in California, moms get 12-14 weeks of paid leave (6-8 weeks maternity leave and 6 weeks of bonding time) and dads get six weeks of "paternity leave" (it's actually called bonding time). If you qualify for FMLA/CFRA, your job is protected for that time as well and the payments are made through the same agency that handles disability/unemployment benefits (the Employment Development Department). I guess our high taxes and regulation are good for something.


I came in here to say this.  Because I thought it was nationwide, I was going to consider the article a bit misleading.  Is it just California?
I was a single parent from day 1, and took 8 weeks of "disability" before I went back to work.  Not sure if I was entitled to more, but I wanted to go back to work.
 
2014-01-15 05:58:28 PM  

Bedstead Polisher: Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.


Yep, that's insane.  12 weeks too many.

Have a kid, get fired should be the policy.  All the leave you want, then.

On a more serious note, I'd be in favor of a mandatory 2x in your lifetime paid six months leave for everyone.  Want to use it to have a crotchfruit?  Sure, go for it.  Want to use it to travel the world, celebrating the fact that you have no crotchfruit?  Do that.  Have a vagina?  You can take the 6 months.  Have a penis?  You can take it too.

But there is no reason at all whatsoever to have some kind of special non-medical leave for squeezing one out.  You want to get paid for it at all, you'd better have sick days saved up.  Or start pushing for my leave for everyone law.
 
2014-01-15 05:58:47 PM  

NorCalLos: Not sure if this has been mentioned, but here in California, moms get 12-14 weeks of paid leave (6-8 weeks maternity leave and 6 weeks of bonding time) and dads get six weeks of "paternity leave" (it's actually called bonding time). If you qualify for FMLA/CFRA, your job is protected for that time as well and the payments are made through the same agency that handles disability/unemployment benefits (the Employment Development Department). I guess our high taxes and regulation are good for something.


Yeah, but it's not fully paid. It's 55% of your base pay, and it's capped around $1000 a week (which isn't a problem for my crap-salary-earning ass, but is less than 55% of my husband's weekly pay). So it's something, but it's definitely not that great in the grand scheme of things. My company lets me combine sick pay with disability so that I can earn 100% of my pay whenever I crank out a kid.
 
2014-01-15 05:59:01 PM  
I will vote to raise my taxes so you can sit on your ass at home and earn the same pay I get for doing my job as well as yours as soon as you vote to raise your taxes to pay for my hookers and blow.

Deal?
 
2014-01-15 05:59:32 PM  

stevenvictx: Wonders how many kids would there be if they got free paycheck from it.


Lots. Look at people on welfare and extrapolate from there.
 
2014-01-15 06:01:57 PM  

minuslars: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

A couple of military guys I know got paternity leave. I'd never heard of it elsewhere.


Paternity leave is not rare at all in the civilized world.

Québec, for example, has paid paternity and maternity leaves in addition to a 32 week parental leave which can be taken by either parent or split between the two.
 
2014-01-15 06:04:04 PM  

GladGirl: NorCalLos: Not sure if this has been mentioned, but here in California, moms get 12-14 weeks of paid leave (6-8 weeks maternity leave and 6 weeks of bonding time) and dads get six weeks of "paternity leave" (it's actually called bonding time). If you qualify for FMLA/CFRA, your job is protected for that time as well and the payments are made through the same agency that handles disability/unemployment benefits (the Employment Development Department). I guess our high taxes and regulation are good for something.

Yeah, but it's not fully paid. It's 55% of your base pay, and it's capped around $1000 a week (which isn't a problem for my crap-salary-earning ass, but is less than 55% of my husband's weekly pay). So it's something, but it's definitely not that great in the grand scheme of things. My company lets me combine sick pay with disability so that I can earn 100% of my pay whenever I crank out a kid.


 I wasn't aware of the exact formula, but you are correct. However, much of the difference is offset by the lack of withholdings and decreased expenses (gas/transit fairs, eating out, coffee, etc.) you don't have while staying home. Also, you have a year to take it and you can do so in two-week increments I believe. If you only take two weeks per month or two weeks per quarter, you have your full salary for the rest of the period to make up for the decrease.

/Having crotchfruit #2 in April
 
2014-01-15 06:06:44 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Your problem is you haven't staffed enough people.  Don't know if that's your fault, or your superiors not providing enough of a budget.  Surprisingly, many, many countries in the world handle this without issue... in fact, pretty much all of them do, except for us and, like, Thailand.  Hint: you're not supposed to be running bare bones staffing levels.  This is why America is dangling over a pit.  We're stretching our existing work force far too much.  Chances are your employees feel this on a daily basis and probably hate it.


Exactly.

What do you do if someone wants vacation leave? Are people never allowed to take a week of vacation to do whatever?

What if someone gets a serious injury or illness? "Damn Bob for getting rear ended while sitting at a stop light?"

You need more people. I don't know whose shoulders that falls on. Don't get pissy at people for trying to retain their personal life. People are not numbers on a calculation that exist solely to be in servitude of a company. They have lives outside of the company. If you accommodate that and don't bust people's balls (or cervices) for daring to exist outside of work you'll get loyalty in return.

Once you realize that the company sees you as a disposable automaton you'll stop giving a damn and become a much worse employee. "Fark me? Well fark you back." Keep your people happy and they'll bend over backwards for you in return.

And, managers, farking listen to this. Buy your staff lunch every once in a while. Free, quality, pizza and drinks once or twice a month does wonders for keeping people happy and productive. It's a damn cheap way of keeping productivity and quality up.
 
2014-01-15 06:09:11 PM  
NorCalLos:

/Having crotchfruit #2 in April

Congrats. To clarify, the short-term disability portion of leave can only be taken between 4 weeks pre-baby and 6 weeks post-birth (or 8 if you have a c-section). The Paid Family Leave (or baby bonding) can be taken anytime during the first year, sure. With my first kid, I didn't find too much of the difference offset by the lack of withholdings or travel expenses, though I was fortunate enough to have saved up enough sick and vacation time to take off five months with full pay. Also, the baby-bonding/PFL benefit doesn't actually provide job protection, but the Family and Medical Leave Act does. It's all so confusing, really. As I'm trying to wade through the paperwork in these last few days of pregnancy, I'm getting so confused.
 
2014-01-15 06:18:54 PM  
My wife had our children,I was able t o take only about 3 days off to bridge to the weekend and I was back the following Monday. That came out of my "Vacation" time each year.

Yeah, it sucked. Thankfully family was in town for 2 weeks to help us get everything sorted out
 
2014-01-15 06:19:26 PM  

2chris2: Who pays for all that paid maternity leave in the countries which have it?


Canadian here. Parental leave costs come from the federal employment insurance fund. My wife took a year with our first kid at around 55% of her salary. I have been paying into EI since I was 15 my wife close to that too. So I highly doubt anyone else has paid for her leave.

And even if I am paying for other parents I am ok with paying that if it means kids are better off and I am not paying for farked up kids down the road.
 
2014-01-15 06:24:24 PM  

GladGirl: NorCalLos:

/Having crotchfruit #2 in April

Congrats. To clarify, the short-term disability portion of leave can only be taken between 4 weeks pre-baby and 6 weeks post-birth (or 8 if you have a c-section). The Paid Family Leave (or baby bonding) can be taken anytime during the first year, sure. With my first kid, I didn't find too much of the difference offset by the lack of withholdings or travel expenses, though I was fortunate enough to have saved up enough sick and vacation time to take off five months with full pay. Also, the baby-bonding/PFL benefit doesn't actually provide job protection, but the Family and Medical Leave Act does. It's all so confusing, really. As I'm trying to wade through the paperwork in these last few days of pregnancy, I'm getting so confused.


Congrats!
 
2014-01-15 06:25:56 PM  
So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved.
 
2014-01-15 06:27:44 PM  

slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?


12 months? what if you have a kid every year? Do you never have to work again?
 
2014-01-15 06:28:46 PM  
Seems to me this is a good way of finding out can actually afford to have kids without burdening others (taxpayers, employers, etc.) with the financial responsibility.


On the other this is a good way to buy more female votes by offering them more free stuff (free meaning others have to pay for it ), just like Obamacare.

Interesting how their body their business rapidly becomes everybody else's financial responsibility.
 
2014-01-15 06:28:57 PM  

AngryDragon: So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved. Get sued


FTFY
 
2014-01-15 06:29:26 PM  

toraque: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

I know guys who've taken months off for paternity leave, and I work in the legendarily soul-crushing video game industry.  Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'


You may want to consider the strange concept that your own personal experience is not automatically the same as everyone else's reality. Most industries are not like the video game industry.

I'm a professional working for the global leader in my industry. My company offers no paternity or maternity leave. They simply promise not to fire you while you're out, and you get to use up your vacation and sick time to pay your bills while you're out for a certain amount of time. Fathers get the same "generous offer", just the time limit is much shorter.
 
2014-01-15 06:34:47 PM  

abhorrent1: AngryDragon: So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved. Get sued

FTFY


You don't tell them that's why you didn't hire them. Sheesh.
 
2014-01-15 06:35:52 PM  

stevenvictx: slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?

12 months? what if you have a kid every year? Do you never have to work again?


That's right!  My wife and I figured that out about fifteen years ago and the day she got promoted to assistant manager we started our diabolical plan and its been working ever since.  The biggest joke is on the franchise owner because he has to keep her picture above the happy meal menu like the other assistant managers.  Next year the oldest gets pulled out of school and sent to work for the same franchise the wife 'assistant manages' and we start the whole cycle again with her and her boyfriend.  We cannot lose!
 
2014-01-15 06:37:29 PM  

jigger: abhorrent1: AngryDragon: So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved. Get sued

FTFY

You don't tell them that's why you didn't hire them. Sheesh.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2014-01-15 06:40:18 PM  

abhorrent1: jigger: abhorrent1: AngryDragon: So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved. Get sued

FTFY

You don't tell them that's why you didn't hire them. Sheesh.

notsureifserious.jpg


No kidding!  Like good luck running a successful strip club if you aren't going to hire anyone under the age of 35.
 
2014-01-15 06:40:26 PM  

DarkVader: Bedstead Polisher: Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.

Yep, that's insane.  12 weeks too many.

Have a kid, get fired should be the policy.  All the leave you want, then.

On a more serious note, I'd be in favor of a mandatory 2x in your lifetime paid six months leave for everyone.  Want to use it to have a crotchfruit?  Sure, go for it.  Want to use it to travel the world, celebrating the fact that you have no crotchfruit?  Do that.  Have a vagina?  You can take the 6 months.  Have a penis?  You can take it too.

But there is no reason at all whatsoever to have some kind of special non-medical leave for squeezing one out.  You want to get paid for it at all, you'd better have sick days saved up.  Or start pushing for my leave for everyone law.


I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

People could use the time to go back to school, travel, recharge. 40 years of non-stop drudgery is... well, just that. Everyone would be happier and more productive. Why should you get a significant amount of time off only in the event that you have a baby. I want a 3 month vacation, too. Call it "humanity leave."

/yes, I know having a baby is not a vacation
//fully support paid maternity leave
 
2014-01-15 06:40:30 PM  
qzprod.files.wordpress.com

Who is this lady? It just says Mrs. Carter
 
2014-01-15 06:40:34 PM  

AngryDragon: So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved.


I had my tubes tied in my 20's. Childbearing age doesn't equal childbearing ability.
 
2014-01-15 06:42:22 PM  

ransack.: [qzprod.files.wordpress.com image 640x360]

Who is this lady? It just says Mrs. Carter


The mouse hover says Beyonce pregnant.
 
2014-01-15 06:43:01 PM  
Americans are quickly becoming 3rd world labor.
 
2014-01-15 06:46:22 PM  

stevenvictx: 12 months? what if you have a kid every year?


<Grandfather from Peter and the Wolf>What then?</Grandfather from Peter and the Wolf>

Americans love to invent nonexistent reasons why creating a civilized society would never work.
 
2014-01-15 06:47:37 PM  

not_an_indigo: AngryDragon: So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved.

I had my tubes tied in my 20's. Childbearing age doesn't equal childbearing ability.


Well that doesn't mean you don't already have kids though. Which can also be problematic. On top of the CSB I told above, I work with another woman who has two kids. It was always.. "My kid is sick" or "I have to take my kid to the doctor" or "I have to pick my kid up from school". I don't think she worked a full week in the first 10 years I worked there
 
2014-01-15 06:48:11 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Americans are quickly becoming 3rd world labor.


But working harder, for less money, increases shareholder value.

It's really the duty of every patriot to sacrifice himself to further advance his betters.
 
2014-01-15 06:49:43 PM  

mongbiohazard: toraque: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

I know guys who've taken months off for paternity leave, and I work in the legendarily soul-crushing video game industry.  Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'

You may want to consider the strange concept that your own personal experience is not automatically the same as everyone else's reality. Most industries are not like the video game industry.

I'm a professional working for the global leader in my industry. My company offers no paternity or maternity leave. They simply promise not to fire you while you're out, and you get to use up your vacation and sick time to pay your bills while you're out for a certain amount of time. Fathers get the same "generous offer", just the time limit is much shorter.


Apparently you must not have "marketable skills".  I'm sure someone will be along shortly to try to shame you for your choice of a college major.
 
2014-01-15 07:03:05 PM  

abhorrent1: not_an_indigo: AngryDragon: So don't hire women of childbearing age.

Problem solved.

I had my tubes tied in my 20's. Childbearing age doesn't equal childbearing ability.

Well that doesn't mean you don't already have kids though. Which can also be problematic. On top of the CSB I told above, I work with another woman who has two kids. It was always.. "My kid is sick" or "I have to take my kid to the doctor" or "I have to pick my kid up from school". I don't think she worked a full week in the first 10 years I worked there


True. I don't have kids though.

I don't mind proving it.
 
2014-01-15 07:04:40 PM  
Great, Want the income level the US offers. Put your job as a priority. Otherwise go live in one of those where the fark are these countries
 
2014-01-15 07:04:47 PM  

mongbiohazard: toraque: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

I know guys who've taken months off for paternity leave, and I work in the legendarily soul-crushing video game industry.  Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'

You may want to consider the strange concept that your own personal experience is not automatically the same as everyone else's reality. Most industries are not like the video game industry.

I'm a professional working for the global leader in my industry. My company offers no paternity or maternity leave. They simply promise not to fire you while you're out, and you get to use up your vacation and sick time to pay your bills while you're out for a certain amount of time. Fathers get the same "generous offer", just the time limit is much shorter.


Yeah, that's why I didn't claim that my experience was the same as everyone else's.  I simply put my experience out as an anecdote, since many people seem to believe that if a thing is not mandated by law, it can't exist.  The 'marketable skills' comment was just in response to someone being condescending.

Outside of this industry, I've worked software dev for a number of other big companies, and most places I've worked at or interviewed at have had paid maternity/paternity leave as part of the benefits package IIRC.
 
2014-01-15 07:06:26 PM  
Had my son in 2011 in Virginia. Got 6 weeks leave at 60% pay, which was then taxed. Supplemented that with vacation and took another 2 weeks on top of it for 8 total. I worked for a very large corporation with 300,000+ employees here in the US and abroad.

I never took one day off or left early for doctors appointments, worked even harder than I did before, and worked up until the day I went into labor. I also put together an extensive plan for the people who would cover me in my absence, though that wasn't necessary. I still caught plenty of shiat at work for various reasons, mostly because I worked with insensitive, judgemental assholes.

Also, I had to pump at work 3-4 times a day because I breastfed for over a year. My managers and coworkers (women included) had a less than progressive attitude about that as well. It's not just the government that makes it difficult for mothers, though they most certainly do not help.
 
2014-01-15 07:40:59 PM  

Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.


No, daddy needs to make round trips to the pharmacy, do the groceries, take the older kid to the park while mommy-rests-and-no-honey-she-still-loves-you-it's-just-that-she's-tire d-of-waking-up-every-two-hours-to-feed-your-brother, do 6 loads of laundry per day, etc...
 
2014-01-15 07:44:38 PM  

Flab: Contents Under Pressure: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

Right, daddy needs to recover from that C-section or episiotomy too.

No, daddy needs to make round trips to the pharmacy, do the groceries, take the older kid to the park while mommy-rests-and-no-honey-she-still-loves-you-it's-just-that-she's-tire d-of-waking-up-every-two-hours-to-feed-your-brother, do 6 loads of laundry per day, etc...


Misogynist
 
2014-01-15 07:48:16 PM  

smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.


If you had a mandatory 12 month maternity leave, you'd have no choice but to replace a mother that's on leave, which would solve your problem.

I agree, though that in many jobs, it's not worth it to train a temp for 3 months, causing many employers to just say fark it we'll just suck it up.

Tl;DR: having longer mandatory leaves would help you, in this case.
 
2014-01-15 07:55:20 PM  
I'm in the middle of maternity leave right now. 6 weeks fully paid short term disability followed by 6 weeks unpaid FMLA.

/husband got 2 days, what a joke.
 
2014-01-15 08:07:02 PM  

highendmighty: ransack.: [qzprod.files.wordpress.com image 640x360]

Who is this lady? It just says Mrs. Carter

The mouse hover says Beyonce pregnant.


Well I guess I'm the only fool who didn't know Jay-Z's last name
 
2014-01-15 08:18:45 PM  

stevenvictx: slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?

12 months? what if you have a kid every year? Do you never have to work again?


You have to work a certain number of weeks to qualify. If you don't qualify, you only get a percentage of the money.
 
2014-01-15 08:29:32 PM  

minuslars: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

A couple of military guys I know got paternity leave. I'd never heard of it elsewhere.


My work, a social service non-profit, offers two weeks paid paternity leave. It's not a lot, but I realize how generous it is in the US.

It saddens me that there are jobs that don't offer a day of maternity leave and force women to rely on sick leave and unpaid FMLA.
 
2014-01-15 08:38:44 PM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Bedstead Polisher: God Is My Co-Pirate: Bedstead Polisher: Just did a quick Google search and you guys only get 12 weeks maternity leave in the US too? That's insane.

It is ridiculous.  And what do they pay during that time, 50% of your salary or something?

Well according to the article, they get nothing. (Unless their employer is one of the few that does pay).

Jesus.


Basically you get 3 months of "We won't fire you for not being at work" and then you go back to work or... you find a new job. 

/good luck finding a new job.
 
2014-01-15 08:49:07 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.

Your problem is you haven't staffed enough people.  Don't know if that's your fault, or your superiors not providing enough of a budget.  Surprisingly, many, many countries in the world handle this without issue... in fact, pretty much all of them do, except for us and, like, Thailand.  Hint: you're not supposed to be running bare bones staffing levels.  This is why America is dangling over a pit.  We're stretching our existing work force far too much.  Chances are your employees feel this on a daily basis and probably hate it.


What he said. 

 It's not the sick kid's fault that you don't have adequate staffing. Stop being frustrated at mom/dad for taking time off to be a parent (which they're supposed to do unless you want hordes of little hoodlums running around) and get pissed at whatever factor is forcing you to stay at "skeleton levels". 

 In my case, it's the lovely school district with is a cheapskate to the point where we can't keep enough drivers on hand so I ended up working today while I was sick around a bunch of kids who probably can't afford to be sick (I work special ed). I'm not mad at drivers who aren't showing up for work, because most of them bust their ass day in and day out. I'm mad at the school board who sets the wages lower than every other district around (yes, they all got raises this year, we haven't had one in 6yrs. Our union is farking impotent.)
 
2014-01-15 09:14:19 PM  
Start paying women the shiat wages they get in Europe, and they can have all the maternity leave they want.
There's a reason Swedish professional women make $25K a year.
 
2014-01-15 09:35:58 PM  

spiderpaz: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

The needs of men don't matter - haven't you learned anything snowflake?


Actually as a misogynist I hate the idea of paternity leave. It is a way of holding men back so we can't excel in a certain area (attendance) so as to remain competitive with women are free to excel in other areas with no hindrance.
 
2014-01-15 09:43:45 PM  

toraque: mongbiohazard: toraque: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

I know guys who've taken months off for paternity leave, and I work in the legendarily soul-crushing video game industry.  Actually I don't know of any workplace that doesn't have paid maternity/paternity leave.  It's probably not mandated by law, but by the fact that nobody's going to manage to keep employees for longer than it takes the new hire to ask 'What about leave?  Why are you laughing?'

You may want to consider the strange concept that your own personal experience is not automatically the same as everyone else's reality. Most industries are not like the video game industry.

I'm a professional working for the global leader in my industry. My company offers no paternity or maternity leave. They simply promise not to fire you while you're out, and you get to use up your vacation and sick time to pay your bills while you're out for a certain amount of time. Fathers get the same "generous offer", just the time limit is much shorter.

Yeah, that's why I didn't claim that my experience was the same as everyone else's.  I simply put my experience out as an anecdote, since many people seem to believe that if a thing is not mandated by law, it can't exist.  The 'marketable skills' comment was just in response to someone being condescending.

Outside of this industry, I've worked software dev for a number of other big companies, and most places I've worked at or interviewed at have had paid maternity/paternity leave as part of the benefits package IIRC.



Video games dev and software dev are both tech jobs. Tech jobs are notorious for often having benefits packages most of the rest of us could only dream about.

Try working for a factory, or widget sales, or apartment management or any one of a jillion other industries that other normal, hardworking Americans do and the difference might shock you.
 
2014-01-15 10:16:26 PM  

cuzsis: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.

Your problem is you haven't staffed enough people.  Don't know if that's your fault, or your superiors not providing enough of a budget.  Surprisingly, many, many countries in the world handle this without issue... in fact, pretty much all of them do, except for us and, like, Thailand.  Hint: you're not supposed to be running bare bones staffing levels.  This is why America is dangling over a pit.  We're stretching our existing work force far too much.  Chances are your employees feel this on a daily basis and probably hate it.

What he said. 

 It's not the sick kid's fault that you don't have adequate staffing. Stop being frustrated at mom/dad for taking time off to be a parent (which they're supposed to do unless you want hordes of little hoodlums running around) and get pissed at whatever factor is forcing you to stay at "skeleton levels". 

 In my case, it's the lovely school district with is a cheapskate to the point where we can't k ...


Indeed. I don't know what the financial climate has to do with being short staffed. The Dow hit an all time high this year and corporate profits are at massive levels Yet we have people willing to work for less and less, and wanting to bring everyone down with them.
 
2014-01-15 10:50:52 PM  
In restaurants in the U.S., nobody gets any maternity leave, and generally speaking nobody gets any vacation pay or sick pay.  You come to work, you get paid, you don't, you don't.
 
2014-01-15 10:53:42 PM  
"We should be more like (insert name of inferior country)".
"ok sure."
 
2014-01-15 10:53:56 PM  
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

/three kids, saved up the sick time, used it, both wife and I got 100% pay for a month after each kid, and four weeks in we were MORE than ready to get things back to normal and end our baby break.  Remarkably easy to do when you don't squander the sick time on made-up illnesses on days where you just "aren't feeling it" or "recovering from the weekend."  Or to put it another way, many of you are worthless deadbeats and that's why your lives are such ongoing calamities
 
2014-01-15 10:55:03 PM  
im still trying to devise a way to go on paid Modernity leave.
 
2014-01-15 11:26:32 PM  

bahr: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

/three kids, saved up the sick time, used it, both wife and I got 100% pay for a month after each kid, and four weeks in we were MORE than ready to get things back to normal and end our baby break.  Remarkably easy to do when you don't squander the sick time on made-up illnesses on days where you just "aren't feeling it" or "recovering from the weekend."  Or to put it another way, many of you are worthless deadbeats and that's why your lives are such ongoing calamities



Yes, everyone who doesn't get maternity or paternity leave is a worthless deadbeat. How brilliant and insightful. Now open your window because it seems like your room is probably filling up with carbon monoxide.
 
2014-01-15 11:42:34 PM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


My benefits included 2 weeks of paternity leave when I worked for a non-profit in Washington state. I'm sure it's not the norm, though, but it was nice to have.
 
2014-01-15 11:50:28 PM  

slantsix: Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.

In Canada, there's 'leave' which doesn't discriminate between parents, AFAIK.  Mom wants to stay home the whole 12 months? Go for it.  or dad?  Or mom and dad (or mom and mom) want to split it somewhere down the line? No problemo.

But hey, socialism and all that, am I right?


I'm a Dad who took the latter 6 months. One of the best experiences of my life geting to be primary caretaker and bond with my boy in the infant stage like that.
 
2014-01-15 11:57:34 PM  

Dwindle: Start paying women the shiat wages they get in Europe, and they can have all the maternity leave they want.
There's a reason Swedish professional women make $25K a year.


A) I won't even dispute your numbers because comparing wages between countries is a meaningless exercise.What really matters is what can this putative Swedish professional do with her take-home pay ? remember that she has no medical or dental bills, daycare is heavily subsidized, she has at least 6 weeks vacation a year, her education and her children's education is free, when she retires she'll have a generous government pension plan, etc...

Now, take an American professional and start deducting all the out-of-pocket expenses which have to come out of her take-home pay. I will grant you, though, that she probably has a bigger house and drives an SUV which she uses every single day for her long commute from a distant suburb.

B) Why Sweden ? why not, for example Australia, Canada, or New Zealand ? is it, perhaps, because incomes in those countries are competitive with the US while social services are considerably superior, though not as good as Sweden's  ? What about Switzerland where income is higher and social services far, far better than in the US ?


STRYPERSWINE: "We should be more like (insert name of inferior country)".
"ok sure."


You do what you want, but if I were you I would strive for the US to be more like (insert name of superior country)
 
2014-01-16 12:43:30 AM  

smokinbuddha: I manage some folks (small staff but a large operation).  I am increasingly frustrated by having so many disappear for maternity reasons (FMLA) or sick children at home.   At the same time, I am sympathetic to people having children and a life outside of work.

That said, my staff, like most in this financial climate, are a skeleton crew.  If I lose one, it's a big deal and I have to pick up the slack.  I am the one responsible.  I have to make it work.  Today, half are out for maternity or family sick time so I come in early and go home late.

It is very difficult to keep things running when people are out.  I hired you to work, and yet, I am doing the work.  The liberal side of me is all for the most days possible for family; the manager side of me just wants you to show up to work.

If you have never been in charge you don't understand.  There are many reasons we are moving towards automation in every area possible.  One of the reasons:  robots don't fill out FMLA forms.


I've been in your shoes. There's really no win; employees are due the time and upper management looks at you as salaried exempt. The expectation is that you work at least 40 with occasional extra. You don't think they budget you a skeleton crew because they can't afford more labor, do you? Occasional can end up meaning every day. Go to www.secform4.com and punch in your company's ticker, if public. You'll see where all those extra hours you put in go. Not really the employees fault.
 
2014-01-16 02:43:07 AM  

Cymbal: And Paternity Leave? Oh wait, that doesn't even exist here.


There is no paid paternity leave in the USA, and "leave" is used in a pretend fashion.
 
2014-01-16 08:16:37 AM  

capt.hollister: Dwindle: Start paying women the shiat wages they get in Europe, and they can have all the maternity leave they want.
There's a reason Swedish professional women make $25K a year.

A) I won't even dispute your numbers because comparing wages between countries is a meaningless exercise.What really matters is what can this putative Swedish professional do with her take-home pay ? remember that she has no medical or dental bills, daycare is heavily subsidized, she has at least 6 weeks vacation a year, her education and her children's education is free, when she retires she'll have a generous government pension plan, etc...

Now, take an American professional and start deducting all the out-of-pocket expenses which have to come out of her take-home pay. I will grant you, though, that she probably has a bigger house and drives an SUV which she uses every single day for her long commute from a distant suburb.

B) Why Sweden ? why not, for example Australia, Canada, or New Zealand ? is it, perhaps, because incomes in those countries are competitive with the US while social services are considerably superior, though not as good as Sweden's  ? What about Switzerland where income is higher and social services far, far better than in the US ?


STRYPERSWINE: "We should be more like (insert name of inferior country)".
"ok sure."

You do what you want, but if I were you I would strive for the US to be more like (insert name of superior country)


There can be no superior countries, so your argument is not going to sway him. Canada has commiecare, so everything else about it is irredeemably farked, and Australia and New Zealand are so far away they're obviously pretend.
 
2014-01-16 11:10:14 AM  
You want to be paid for firing off a meat anchor that adds exactly zero benefit to the company?  How bout no.
 
2014-01-16 11:20:11 AM  

sufferpuppet: You want to be paid for months while the rest of us get to do your work for you, just for firing off a meat anchor that adds exactly zero benefit to the company?  How bout no.


FTFY
 
2014-01-16 11:29:09 AM  

ransack.: highendmighty: ransack.: [qzprod.files.wordpress.com image 640x360]

Who is this lady? It just says Mrs. Carter

The mouse hover says Beyonce pregnant.

Well I guess I'm the only fool who didn't know Jay-Z's last name


Which makes me the only fool to not know she was married to Jay-Z.
At my age, I've become very apathetic about pop knowledge.  I'm popathetic.
 
2014-01-16 03:25:00 PM  

big pig peaches: Yes there isn't a law at the federal level, but most states have there own laws.

You would have to look at every state to figure out how bad it is. Never researched it so I couldn't tell you, but the US was based on the states making these decisions for themselves.


This. You can't compare America to France or Spain, because we were designed with a pretty big amount of state autonomy in mind. It's more appropriate to compare us to the EU as a whole- there are a few big things that apply to all of us, but most things aren't dealt with on that level.
 
2014-01-16 09:59:49 PM  
busy chillin':

There's the USA we all know and love.

Of personal responsibility? you bet.
 
2014-01-16 10:56:56 PM  
STRYPERSWINE: "We should be more like (insert name of inferior country)".
"ok sure."

You do what you want, but if I were you I would strive for the US to be more like (insert name of superior country)

There can be no superior countries, so your argument is not going to sway him. Canada has commiecare, so everything else about it is irredeemably farked, and Australia and New Zealand are so far away they're obviously pretend.


Yeah, they really buy it hook, line, and sinker.  Great marketing.  Very interesting to watch from the outside.
 
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