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(io9)   Not news: A Sci-Fi convention is cancelled. News: Because the hotel didn't agree to the convention's anti-harassment policy. FARK: The hotel staff called the attendees "costumed freaks"   (observationdeck.io9.com) divider line 136
    More: Asinine, science fiction convention, hotel staff, harassment  
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4187 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Jan 2014 at 2:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 06:53:51 PM  

madgordy: Furry Jesus riding a velociraptor?


Would Furry Jesus be a groundhog?  (He walks out of his tomb, and if he sees his shadow...)
 
2014-01-15 07:13:54 PM  

madgordy: rjakobi: See, this is why you get several people cosplaying as Jesus on Sunday at the cons.

Republican Jesus, Free Trade Jesus, Liburul Jesus, and Furry Jesus riding a velociraptor?


Actually, there WAS the traditional Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick

img.fark.net
 
2014-01-15 07:25:20 PM  

madgordy: back in the 80's I attended a few SciFi conventions, V-Con, NorwestCon and the like.  there was a contingent of Republican Jesus types who would walk in and accuse everyone of being Satanists, go through the merchant rooms and claim that every piece of merchandise was Satanic,  even crosses.   I recall walking up beside them and asking about Satanist discounts, or posting room numbers for black mass.

those were the days.


A few years ago at a con, I saw a stack of Monopoly-style cards that said "Get out of Hell free".  I think they were meant to advertise someone's self-published novel, but my first thought was how entertaining it might be to hand those out at the Catholic Charisma convention.
 
2014-01-15 07:27:07 PM  

anfrind: rjakobi: As Ashkuyun mentioned above, business conventions are way more destructive and less willing to pay for damages.  I think this is partially image-related, and partially entitlement. A bunch of geeks and nerds are generally much more considerate with the staff and space, even though they look wild.

This.

Business conventions may smell less of body odor and shattered dreams, but when it comes to drunken rampages and property damage, it's business conventions hands-down.

Though now I'm curious which comicon that tillerman35 had run afoul of.

It's not just business conventions, either.  There's a small sci-fi convention in Silicon Valley on Memorial Day weekend that always ends up sharing hotel space with a Catholic Charisma convention.  The sci-fi convention has never had issues with underage drinking, but I can't say the same about the Catholic Charisma convention.

Although my favorite story about simultaneous conventions has to be from about a year ago, when the San Jose Convention Center hosted a volleyball convention and a furry convention on the same weekend.


That's Further Confusion, which is this weekend, and booked alongside the Volleyball tournament AND Hempcon.

This will be fun. (Table 56, FC Dealer's Room - come and say hi if you're going!).

flondrix: insertsnarkyusername: So they are asking the hotel to basically police the con and punish guests? That's a logistical nightmare that a lot of hotels would prefer to avoid. No matter what they do in any situation they are losing someone's business, even if that person is being an asshole.

No, cons have their own staff for enforcing con rules.  When the offending party won't leave, that is when they involve the hotel's security.  Most hotels understand the concept of a problem guest no longer being welcome at the event.


This, pretty much. I'm staff (very very minor staff, one step above a Gofur) at FC, and used to be staff at Califur. Both have different approaches to security - FC outsources to FLARE, a general-fandom supporting group, while Califur has CFAC (CaliFur Animal Control) which is 100% in-house - but both conventions have their security people and do their best to police the convention areas alongside and in support of the hotel's own security... which generally only have to be called if there's a larger issue that Con Security can't solve.

Califur has had a Code of Conduct as far back as I remember, and I know some conventions started picking that up recently. Didn't know Scalzi was behind a lot of that for the non-Furry ones; I'll have to drop him a line and thank him for that.

/Would have sworn that Anime Expo in LA had a Code of Conduct when I was going in 2004/2005
 
2014-01-15 07:29:19 PM  

flondrix: insertsnarkyusername: So they are asking the hotel to basically police the con and punish guests? That's a logistical nightmare that a lot of hotels would prefer to avoid. No matter what they do in any situation they are losing someone's business, even if that person is being an asshole.

No, cons have their own staff for enforcing con rules.  When the offending party won't leave, that is when they involve the hotel's security.  Most hotels understand the concept of a problem guest no longer being welcome at the event.


And sometimes they even help hour.  I can remember being at a con one time, and was walking past the pool, where there had apparently just been some excitement, where a kid had just slipped and had a cut or something.  The kid was being attended to by the head of Con security, who was dressed as a Klingon (at least the make-up.  He had the mandated staff shirt on so that people would know to go to him for help).  No idea if the kid was part of the con or not.
 
2014-01-15 08:25:52 PM  
Eh, I've seen it posted both ways here, but I'll throw my pointless 2 cents in with the 'behavior of the attendees could have been prohibitively bad, so much so that the hotel decided they did not want the business of the Con'.

I've seen smaller cons (couple hundred people) get specifically told 'if you bother the ducks, you are not coming back' and similar warnings about observing pool times, smoking areas, drinking, underage drinking, etc.

Nerds, when they break loose, tend to either remain the shut down type, or go completely ape shiat bonanzas crazy.  Con goers, especially the costumed kind, tend to be the more extroverted type to begin with. Adding them into a party atmosphere with drinks (possibly), etc. I could easily see leading to a hassle.

Or maybe the hotel has developed as reputation for being 'that kind' of place or something. I don't know.  Could just be they made an exceptionally shiatty business choice (I lean that way myself but thought I'd play devil's advocate).
 
2014-01-15 08:37:56 PM  

ongbok: The Stealth Hippopotamus: what a costume freak may look like

[img6.imageshack.us image 850x850]
[img21.imageshack.us image 630x960]

Too bad most o the women attending those conventions don't look like that, or the women that are featured in the pictures from the conventions that show up on the internet. Most of the women at those conventions are about 20-30 pounds, or more, heavier and trying to squeeze into a costume the size of the one the girl in your picture is wearing.


http://www.epbot.com/2013/05/is-this-what-respect-feels-like-real.ht ml
 
2014-01-15 08:52:23 PM  
Is Capricon still going on okay this year? Any Farkers going?
 
2014-01-15 09:16:11 PM  

quizzical: ongbok: The Stealth Hippopotamus: what a costume freak may look like

[img6.imageshack.us image 850x850]
[img21.imageshack.us image 630x960]

Too bad most o the women attending those conventions don't look like that, or the women that are featured in the pictures from the conventions that show up on the internet. Most of the women at those conventions are about 20-30 pounds, or more, heavier and trying to squeeze into a costume the size of the one the girl in your picture is wearing.

http://www.epbot.com/2013/05/is-this-what-respect-feels-like-real.ht ml


Yah, I'm a man and I would look ridiculous in some skimpy cos play outfit. That's part of the reason I don't dress up in one. And I'm certainly not going to be shocked if I get made fun of for a hairy back and moobs if I do.
 
2014-01-15 09:30:12 PM  
Chi-Fi?

More likely canceled because nobody there could get their stuff together.

More for Windycon and Capricon.
 
2014-01-15 09:33:25 PM  
I kind of thought we were past the calling people "freaks" phase here in the 21st century. Geeks, nerds, larpers, cosplayers and the like can be found everywhere. We generate tens of billions of dollars to the economy.

But somewhere along the line some manager at this hotel didn't get the memo. Cancelling a con isn't a decision that is made lightly, especially a first year con. This might well kill them, no matter what they say or do. They are cancelling contracts with their talent (authors, actors) and they have already spent thousands in promotion, travel etc.

As a merchant, I would have to cancel my hotel room (which sometimes can't be done if you used a site like hotwire). I would have scheduled time to get to and work the show. If cons are my second job, I would have asked for days off from my primary job. Can I get those days back? It's very unlikely I would be able to pick up another con at such short notice. What about my table fees? Will I get them back?

All of this because some dick at a hotel is uncomfortable with "costumed freaks". Let me say that this kind of attitude has become practically extinct in my experience. Hotels host all kinds of events and if you think geeks are somehow the worst type of customer you've never been to say, a dentists or funeral directors conference. Weddings? Holy shiat those things are ticking timebombs. In my experience hotel staff have actually gotten cooler over the years. Some of them really like these cons and get into the experience. When I went to Up in the Aether in Detroit I did a double take when I checked into the hotel. All the front desk staff were wearing clip on curly mustaches. Including the women. Hilarious.

So fark this guy.
 
2014-01-15 10:20:47 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: quizzical: ongbok: The Stealth Hippopotamus: what a costume freak may look like

[img6.imageshack.us image 850x850]
[img21.imageshack.us image 630x960]

Too bad most o the women attending those conventions don't look like that, or the women that are featured in the pictures from the conventions that show up on the internet. Most of the women at those conventions are about 20-30 pounds, or more, heavier and trying to squeeze into a costume the size of the one the girl in your picture is wearing.

http://www.epbot.com/2013/05/is-this-what-respect-feels-like-real.ht ml

Yah, I'm a man and I would look ridiculous in some skimpy cos play outfit. That's part of the reason I don't dress up in one. And I'm certainly not going to be shocked if I get made fun of for a hairy back and moobs if I do.


You gotta learn how to flaunt it.

That's what Man-Faye does.

i500.listal.com
The problem that a lot of women -- especially heavy-set women -- have with going cosplay is they're trying to be something they're not. They're trying to be thin and sexy and they know that's not what they are and everyone can see that, and that brings insecurity and self-consciousness. Is Man-Faye sexy? No, and he's not trying to be. His recognition of those limitations is what makes him so legendary. He is a parody of sexy cosplay.

A lot of women can do the same thing. You need to recognize the talents you have and use them. Go as what you are, not as an idealized version of what you want to be.
 
2014-01-15 11:43:03 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: This is also part of that statement. ""As we want to put the safety and enjoyment of our guests and attendees first, we requested that the hotel make changes to ensure that our attendees and guests be treated with the same respect as any other Westin hotel guests. By mutual decision, we agreed to part ways with the hotel.".

They don't mention what changes they asked the hotel to make. Not only that but the statement the hotel released basically says Chicon is full of shiat. Which is an odd move for a business, usually it's just easier to sack someone and say you changed. Not deny that the event actually happened.


Here's the anti-harassment policy in question, ripped from the con website:

"Harassment includes offensive verbal comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, religion, or dress, sexual images in public spaces, deliberate intimidation, stalking, following, harassing photography or recording, sustained disruption of talks or other events, inappropriate physical contact, and unwelcome sexual attention. Participants asked to stop any harassing behavior are expected to comply immediately."

As you can see, it goes quite a bit further than the any corporation which has to deal with the general public would ever agree to. Not only does it invoke inherent contradiction (sexual expression, yes! sexual images, no!), but it create categories no court would allow for special treatment (body size) and imagined offense (harassing photography). Agreeing to that is just asking for lawsuits from every direction.
 
2014-01-15 11:44:59 PM  
Okay.  Booking at Westin hotels, added to list of NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

Not just personal visits, also professional ones.  Yeah, not a huge amount of money, but it's corporate money they will *never* get.  Thank your local idiots, Westin corporate.
 
2014-01-16 12:55:33 AM  

Summercat: anfrind: rjakobi: As Ashkuyun mentioned above, business conventions are way more destructive and less willing to pay for damages.  I think this is partially image-related, and partially entitlement. A bunch of geeks and nerds are generally much more considerate with the staff and space, even though they look wild.

This.

Business conventions may smell less of body odor and shattered dreams, but when it comes to drunken rampages and property damage, it's business conventions hands-down.

Though now I'm curious which comicon that tillerman35 had run afoul of.

It's not just business conventions, either.  There's a small sci-fi convention in Silicon Valley on Memorial Day weekend that always ends up sharing hotel space with a Catholic Charisma convention.  The sci-fi convention has never had issues with underage drinking, but I can't say the same about the Catholic Charisma convention.

Although my favorite story about simultaneous conventions has to be from about a year ago, when the San Jose Convention Center hosted a volleyball convention and a furry convention on the same weekend.

That's Further Confusion, which is this weekend, and booked alongside the Volleyball tournament AND Hempcon.

This will be fun. (Table 56, FC Dealer's Room - come and say hi if you're going!).


I considered going last year only because Ursula Vernon was guest of honor, but I gave up when I couldn't find out if she'd be doing book-signings (I later found out that book-signings were on Friday, when I had to work).  I probably won't go this year either, but I'll probably be passing through downtown on Saturday morning, so maybe I'll just peek inside to see how creeped out the volleyball players and their parents look.

/Ursula Vernon will be at BayCon this year
 
2014-01-16 01:19:31 AM  

gerrymander: insertsnarkyusername: This is also part of that statement. ""As we want to put the safety and enjoyment of our guests and attendees first, we requested that the hotel make changes to ensure that our attendees and guests be treated with the same respect as any other Westin hotel guests. By mutual decision, we agreed to part ways with the hotel.".

They don't mention what changes they asked the hotel to make. Not only that but the statement the hotel released basically says Chicon is full of shiat. Which is an odd move for a business, usually it's just easier to sack someone and say you changed. Not deny that the event actually happened.

Here's the anti-harassment policy in question, ripped from the con website:

"Harassment includes offensive verbal comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, religion, or dress, sexual images in public spaces, deliberate intimidation, stalking, following, harassing photography or recording, sustained disruption of talks or other events, inappropriate physical contact, and unwelcome sexual attention. Participants asked to stop any harassing behavior are expected to comply immediately."

As you can see, it goes quite a bit further than the any corporation which has to deal with the general public would ever agree to. Not only does it invoke inherent contradiction (sexual expression, yes! sexual images, no!), but it create categories no court would allow for special treatment (body size) and imagined offense (harassing photography). Agreeing to that is just asking for lawsuits from every direction.


Your reading comprehension is lacking.

First of all, gender expression != sexual expression.  Sci-fi and fantasy fandoms tend to attract a disproportionate number of people who are often ostracized for being "different", including but not limited to a disproportionate number of transgendered individuals.  You can't make offensive comments based on someone's gender identity, nor can you make uninvited lewd comments to members of the opposite sex.

Second, people of unusual body size are NOT asking for special treatment (aside from the usual things required by the ADA).  The rule simply states that you can't make insulting comments about someone's weight.

Third, harassing photography is not nearly as vague as you seem to think.  It's widely accepted that photographers should ask permission before taking photos (unless consent is clearly implied, e.g. if the subject is part of a parade), and that they do not photograph people who ask not to be photographed.


In other words, don't be a dick.
 
2014-01-16 03:04:04 AM  

anfrind: First of all, gender expression != sexual expression.  Sci-fi and fantasy fandoms tend to attract a disproportionate number of people who are often ostracized for being "different", including but not limited to a disproportionate number of transgendered individuals.  You can't make offensive comments based on someone's gender identity, nor can you make uninvited lewd comments to members of the opposite sex.

Second, people of unusual body size are NOT asking for special treatment (aside from the usual things required by the ADA).  The rule simply states that you can't make insulting comments about someone's weight.

Third, harassing photography is not nearly as vague as you seem to think.  It's widely accepted that photographers should ask permission before taking photos (unless consent is clearly implied, e.g. if the subject is part of a parade), and that they do not photograph people who ask not to be photographed.


In other words, don't be a dick.


My reading comprehension is fine. A policy which allows (e.g.) Jessica Nigri to cosplay but bans a vendor from displaying pictures of Jessica Nigri in cosplay is fundamentally broken. Fat people are legally no more immune to criticism than frat boys. Photography in events open to photographers must meet legal obligations, of which 'asking permission' is not generally one.

I understand the goals of the anti-harassment policy. I also recognize that they cannot be enforced in ways that impact non-attendees without exposing a hotel to lawsuits. Not enforced by the hotel, not enforced by the con staff. So, that jackass that says, "Check out Jabba the Hutt wearing a Leia bikini!" and takes a picture may be a dick, but he's a dick who will have grounds to file suit if prevented from using his room or the other public hotel facilities if ejected from the hotel by con staff.

"Don't be a dick" is an Internet meme, not controlling legislation.
 
2014-01-16 04:48:35 AM  
the truth hurts sometimes.
 
2014-01-16 05:58:16 AM  

gerrymander: anfrind: First of all, gender expression != sexual expression.  Sci-fi and fantasy fandoms tend to attract a disproportionate number of people who are often ostracized for being "different", including but not limited to a disproportionate number of transgendered individuals.  You can't make offensive comments based on someone's gender identity, nor can you make uninvited lewd comments to members of the opposite sex.

Second, people of unusual body size are NOT asking for special treatment (aside from the usual things required by the ADA).  The rule simply states that you can't make insulting comments about someone's weight.

Third, harassing photography is not nearly as vague as you seem to think.  It's widely accepted that photographers should ask permission before taking photos (unless consent is clearly implied, e.g. if the subject is part of a parade), and that they do not photograph people who ask not to be photographed.


In other words, don't be a dick.

My reading comprehension is fine. A policy which allows (e.g.) Jessica Nigri to cosplay but bans a vendor from displaying pictures of Jessica Nigri in cosplay is fundamentally broken. Fat people are legally no more immune to criticism than frat boys. Photography in events open to photographers must meet legal obligations, of which 'asking permission' is not generally one.

I understand the goals of the anti-harassment policy. I also recognize that they cannot be enforced in ways that impact non-attendees without exposing a hotel to lawsuits. Not enforced by the hotel, not enforced by the con staff. So, that jackass that says, "Check out Jabba the Hutt wearing a Leia bikini!" and takes a picture may be a dick, but he's a dick who will have grounds to file suit if prevented from using his room or the other public hotel facilities if ejected from the hotel by con staff.

"Don't be a dick" is an Internet meme, not controlling legislation.


1) I don't think displaying a picture of Jessica Nigri in cosplay as a regular photo would be harassment, unless this person has indicated they didnt' want it.

2) This isn't for removing them from the hotel, but removing their conbadge and banning them from convention-only areas. In California, that just means you can't go into any function rooms, apparently elsewhere that also includes the lobby for social purposes. In either case, the convention is not asking the hotel to remove the person from the room. And seeing as you agreed to this policy when receiving your conbadge, you don't have room to complain.

As a convention is not a government, they can make up any and all sorts of protected classes and say "Don't harass these people".
 
2014-01-16 07:13:55 AM  

gerrymander: insertsnarkyusername: This is also part of that statement. ""As we want to put the safety and enjoyment of our guests and attendees first, we requested that the hotel make changes to ensure that our attendees and guests be treated with the same respect as any other Westin hotel guests. By mutual decision, we agreed to part ways with the hotel.".

They don't mention what changes they asked the hotel to make. Not only that but the statement the hotel released basically says Chicon is full of shiat. Which is an odd move for a business, usually it's just easier to sack someone and say you changed. Not deny that the event actually happened.

Here's the anti-harassment policy in question, ripped from the con website:

"Harassment includes offensive verbal comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, religion, or dress, sexual images in public spaces, deliberate intimidation, stalking, following, harassing photography or recording, sustained disruption of talks or other events, inappropriate physical contact, and unwelcome sexual attention. Participants asked to stop any harassing behavior are expected to comply immediately."

As you can see, it goes quite a bit further than the any corporation which has to deal with the general public would ever agree to. Not only does it invoke inherent contradiction (sexual expression, yes! sexual images, no!), but it create categories no court would allow for special treatment (body size) and imagined offense (harassing photography). Agreeing to that is just asking for lawsuits from every direction.


Bzzt.

Westin/Starwood corporate agreed to this and even offered to move them to a new hotel (the con organizers decided there wasn't enough time).

If you manage a branch and corporate agrees to a contract, I can guarantee that you're not doing it out of liability concerns.

TFA links to the real article which links to the FB page of the Westin in question. The comments there have a few more details including the the letters sent between Chi-Fi and the Westin.
 
2014-01-16 10:27:42 AM  

gerrymander: imagined offense (harassing photography)


Harassing photography is not an imagined offense.
 
2014-01-16 10:53:39 AM  

Ant: ongbok: Most of the women at those conventions are about 20-30 pounds, or more, heavier and trying to squeeze into a costume the size of the one the girl in your picture is wearing.

OMG! They should be banned from showing themselves in public! They should live in shame!


Exactly! See? You get it.
 
2014-01-16 11:14:35 AM  
ITT: Nice guys.  Talking about how they can never find a hot chick to play dress up for them.

So therefore, any hot chick playing dress up == whore.

Nice Guy QED.

/I'm glad my love will dress up for me.
 
2014-01-16 11:17:23 AM  

flondrix: gerrymander: imagined offense (harassing photography)

Harassing photography is not an imagined offense.



There is no such thing as harassing photography so long as you aren't shooting photos up someones skirt or through their clothing, and the person you are taking photos of is in public.

If you intend to make a profit off the photos, you should have a consent form signed by the model.  You do not need consent forms for well known public figures as the law says they have no expectation of privacy while in public in that manner (so we can keep our paparazzi).

/thats the law. Like it or not.
 
2014-01-16 11:58:43 AM  

fluffy2097: flondrix: gerrymander: imagined offense (harassing photography)

Harassing photography is not an imagined offense.


There is no such thing as harassing photography so long as you aren't shooting photos up someones skirt or through their clothing, and the person you are taking photos of is in public.

If you intend to make a profit off the photos, you should have a consent form signed by the model.  You do not need consent forms for well known public figures as the law says they have no expectation of privacy while in public in that manner (so we can keep our paparazzi).

/thats the law. Like it or not.


Convention rules can and do go beyond what is required by law.  It's pathetic how many armchair lawyers fail to realize that.
 
2014-01-16 12:06:05 PM  

anfrind: fluffy2097: flondrix: gerrymander: imagined offense (harassing photography)

Harassing photography is not an imagined offense.


There is no such thing as harassing photography so long as you aren't shooting photos up someones skirt or through their clothing, and the person you are taking photos of is in public.

If you intend to make a profit off the photos, you should have a consent form signed by the model.  You do not need consent forms for well known public figures as the law says they have no expectation of privacy while in public in that manner (so we can keep our paparazzi).

/thats the law. Like it or not.

Convention rules can and do go beyond what is required by law.  It's pathetic how many armchair lawyers fail to realize that.


The convention can have whatever rules it wants, just don't expect the hotel to be the enforcer of those rules.
 
2014-01-16 12:16:00 PM  

insertsnarkyusername: There is no such thing as harassing photography so long as you aren't shooting photos up someones skirt or through their clothing, and the person you are taking photos of is in public.

If you intend to make a profit off the photos, you should have a consent form signed by the model. You do not need consent forms for well known public figures as the law says they have no expectation of privacy while in public in that manner (so we can keep our paparazzi).

/thats the law. Like it or not.

Convention rules can and do go beyond what is required by law. It's pathetic how many armchair lawyers fail to realize that.

The convention can have whatever rules it wants, just don't expect the hotel to be the enforcer of those rules.


The convention is a private function, being held in a (rented) private place.  It can have its own rules, and invite or dis-invite people as it sees fit.  The rules are enforced by Con security, who will if necessary seek the help of hotel security in evicting a person who is no longer welcome at the private function.  In most cases, the convention will refund the offender's membership fee and consider it money well spent.  It's no different than if someone had rented the hotel for a wedding and a drunken uncle began getting too friendly with the flower girls.
 
2014-01-16 12:22:42 PM  

anfrind: /Ursula Vernon will be at BayCon this year


I apparently am now friends with people that know/have known her *personaly*. Words cannot contain my envy for them.

/Really really need to buy the Digger books.
//One of the best comics I have EVER read.
 
2014-01-16 12:28:11 PM  

flondrix: insertsnarkyusername: There is no such thing as harassing photography so long as you aren't shooting photos up someones skirt or through their clothing, and the person you are taking photos of is in public.

If you intend to make a profit off the photos, you should have a consent form signed by the model. You do not need consent forms for well known public figures as the law says they have no expectation of privacy while in public in that manner (so we can keep our paparazzi).

/thats the law. Like it or not.

Convention rules can and do go beyond what is required by law. It's pathetic how many armchair lawyers fail to realize that.

The convention can have whatever rules it wants, just don't expect the hotel to be the enforcer of those rules.

The convention is a private function, being held in a (rented) private place.  It can have its own rules, and invite or dis-invite people as it sees fit.  The rules are enforced by Con security, who will if necessary seek the help of hotel security in evicting a person who is no longer welcome at the private function.  In most cases, the convention will refund the offender's membership fee and consider it money well spent.  It's no different than if someone had rented the hotel for a wedding and a drunken uncle began getting too friendly with the flower girls.


Of course, nobody is going to argue that hotel security isn't going to remove someone that is molesty, violent or incredibly intoxicated. However the hotel doesn't really give a shiat if someone made a snarky comment that hurt someone's feelings or took a picture of a costume without asking permission. There was always a level of involvement for the hotel security in an event like this. The hotel obviously decided that it didn't want to deal with all the extra stuff that the anti-harassment policy contained or this wouldn't have been an issue. Hell the statement the con put out even said that the hotel wouldn't make changes in their policy. Frankly the anti-harrassment policy shouldn't have been brought to the hotel. It should have been given to the con goers with the understanding that if asked to leave and you don't you are now trespassing which is a legitimate reason to then involve hotel security and even law enforcement should you physically resist.
 
2014-01-16 01:10:26 PM  

Felgraf: anfrind: /Ursula Vernon will be at BayCon this year

I apparently am now friends with people that know/have known her *personaly*. Words cannot contain my envy for them.

/Really really need to buy the Digger books.
//One of the best comics I have EVER read.


Have you read her short story "Jackalope Wives" yet?

http://www.apex-magazine.com/jackalope-wives/
 
2014-01-16 03:40:48 PM  

flondrix: The convention is a private function, being held in a (rented) private place.  It can have its own rules, and invite or dis-invite people as it sees fit.  The rules are enforced by Con security, who will if necessary seek the help of hotel security in evicting a person who is no longer welcome at the private function.  In most cases, the convention will refund the offender's membership fee and consider it money well spent.  It's no different than if someone had rented the hotel for a wedding and a drunken uncle began getting too friendly with the flower girls.


It's really not any different from Fark.  And I agree with you. It's part of the whole "right to refuse service" Con security could kick someone out, even for something someone did on public property, because it's a private event. The asshole could still stand outside on the sidewalk taking photos though, as long as they stay off hotel property.
 
2014-01-16 03:52:56 PM  
Hehehe Sci-Fi convention has a hard time with staff not being accepting?

You should try going to a swinger convention :P
 
2014-01-16 04:59:02 PM  

2wolves: The ghost of Disclave still haunts the halls of the New Carrollton Ramada.


I think I have a pair of shoes that are still wet.
 
2014-01-16 05:12:23 PM  

fluffy2097: If you intend to make a profit off the photos, you should have a consent form signed by the model.


It's called a model release.

How do I know when I need a model release?

"Profit" is not a determining factor.   COMMERCE is.   If the photo is used to create a commercial product (EG a calendar or a tee shirt), or is used to further a commercial interest (IE advertising), then you need a release.   If you are just selling art prints, using it for editorial purposes or news reporting, a release is NOT required.   

Most pro photographers get a release anyway even when they don't technically need them because it's cheap anti-lawsuit insurance.   My release, for instance, has a clause that lets me recover attorney's fees if someone I photographed ever gets a bug up their ass and decides to try and sue me.
 
2014-01-16 05:14:30 PM  
A couple of years ago I was at DragonCon w/ my husband and there were these two smoking hot Asian chicks
in full-on cosplay regalia. This creepy guy comes up, hands me his digital camera and asks if I mind taking his
picture with the fair ladies. They said it was fine, so I did. He thanked me and left.

Afterward, my husband says to me, "You know he's just going to go back to his hotel room and jerk off to those
pictures, right?"

I felt like a creepy enabler after that...
 
2014-01-16 05:27:00 PM  

Summercat: As a convention is not a government, they can make up any and all sorts of protected classes and say "Don't harass these people".


And a court is under no obligation not biatchslap you if someone gets pissy and files a lawsuit, especially if your rule conflicts with real law.   You can put any shiat you want in a contract.   Just don't expect the court to enforce it if the other party calls you on it.

You're free to have a convention that has a "no Jews" rule.   You can even try to enforce it.   You'll get your balls sued off, but you can have your rule written down and make yourself feel all empowered and shiat.
 
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