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(Daily Mail)   China: "Hitler had a point with the whole Eugenics thing"   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 78
    More: Scary, eugenics, Chinese firm, Chinese, ice quake, embryos, socialization  
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4062 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 Jan 2014 at 2:13 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 01:11:59 PM  
Uh, no, submitter.

1) You're a jackass for Godwinning this thread.

2) Eugenics is done through selective breeding between parents having desirable traits. This ain't it.

3) This is a Genomics institution - one of the largest in the world by the way, with many advances - studying the genetic component for intelligence. The same research is being done by lots of other researchers in lots of other countries, including the US.

For instance, here's a study from the UK:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3182557/

4) The whole "genetically engineering babies" thing was just FUD added by the Daily Mail and not actually what BGI is doing.
 
2014-01-15 01:13:41 PM  
Good point subby. Aside from the forced sterilization and genocide aspect of the Nazi program, they're exactly the same thing.  Which is to say, they're nothing alike.

This is a chinese firm looking for genomic indicators of smartness.
 
2014-01-15 01:22:54 PM  
The only people complaining are people that wouldn't be around to complain if eugenics were used readily now.
 
2014-01-15 01:25:41 PM  
Submitter: "I don't really understand what words mean. Furthermore, maybe I should stare at that bright yellow thing in the sky for a while."
 
2014-01-15 01:32:54 PM  
China is, like most countries, quite self centered, viewing themselves as superior to all others. It will be interesting to see what they find "desirable" vice Hitler or others.

Perhaps parents will opt for creativity and their spawn will become rich capitalists. Or perhaps they'll go with the usual obedience to the state and guarantee a life of copying the West via underpaid manufacturing jobs.
 
2014-01-15 01:48:33 PM  
Downvoted like a mandatory colonoscopy.
 
2014-01-15 01:54:50 PM  
Me volluntere, me think gud.
 
2014-01-15 01:56:59 PM  
"The United States was the first country to concertedly undertake compulsory sterilization programs for the purpose of eugenics. The heads of the program were avid believers in eugenics and frequently argued for their program.  The principal targets of the American program were the intellectually disabled and the mentally ill, but also targeted under many state laws were the deaf, the blind, people with epilepsy, and the physically deformed.

Some sterilizations took place in prisons and other penal institutions, targeting criminality, but they were in the relative minority. In the end, over 65,000 individuals were sterilized in 33 states under state compulsory sterilization programs in the United States."

Source
 
2014-01-15 01:57:39 PM  
But TFA has nothing to do with that.

TFA is more like Gattaca...
 
2014-01-15 02:11:15 PM  

Fubini: Good point subby. Aside from the forced sterilization and genocide aspect of the Nazi program, they're exactly the same thing.  Which is to say, they're nothing alike.

This is a chinese firm looking for genomic indicators of smartness.


Yeah, because the Chinese have never done things like forced abortions and sterilizations.
 
2014-01-15 02:14:27 PM  

unlikely: But TFA has nothing to do with that.

TFA is more like Gattaca...


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-15 02:14:41 PM  

edmo: It will be interesting to see what they find "desirable"


Boys.
 
2014-01-15 02:14:56 PM  
Sad article needs lies for clicks.  I almost feel bad for it.
 
2014-01-15 02:18:56 PM  
I for one welcome our big tittied super genius lbfm overlords.
 
2014-01-15 02:21:34 PM  
Aside from the wrong headline, this is why theyre number 1 and going to hold on to it.
 
2014-01-15 02:21:42 PM  
If you support abortion how can you oppose eugenics?
 
2014-01-15 02:26:30 PM  
Abortion is how government pulled off eugenics in the United States. Under the guise of women's rights... heh. The Civil Rights Guise really is the easiest way for government to get their hands dirty.

Like the civil war... the South uses slaves (and has tons of land and money that we want and will never give back), lets kill those slavemasters! I'm not saying slavery was right, I'm saying that hundreds of thousands of soldiers did not die for slavery.
 
2014-01-15 02:27:39 PM  
How does China produce more math whizzes? To start, they have four times our population. Then they seek out the above average then nurture and educate them from early on.

In the rest of the world they're forced to play sports. One mild concussion later they're meerly bright. A few more and they're baseline.
 
2014-01-15 02:27:56 PM  

unlikely: "The United States was the first country to concertedly undertake compulsory sterilization programs for the purpose of eugenics. The heads of the program were avid believers in eugenics and frequently argued for their program.  The principal targets of the American program were the intellectually disabled and the mentally ill, but also targeted under many state laws were the deaf, the blind, people with epilepsy, and the physically deformed.

Some sterilizations took place in prisons and other penal institutions, targeting criminality, but they were in the relative minority. In the end, over 65,000 individuals were sterilized in 33 states under state compulsory sterilization programs in the United States."

Source


Only 65,000? shiat, they weren't even trying.
 
2014-01-15 02:29:46 PM  
Oh good, this thread has brought out the stupid.

dittybopper: Fubini: Good point subby. Aside from the forced sterilization and genocide aspect of the Nazi program, they're exactly the same thing.  Which is to say, they're nothing alike.

This is a chinese firm looking for genomic indicators of smartness.

Yeah, because the Chinese have never done things like forced abortions and sterilizations.


Please indicate where in the article the forced abortions and sterilizations are happening.

Contrabulous Flabtraption: If you support abortion how can you oppose eugenics?


Yes. Choosing to end a pregnancy is exactly the same thing as sterilizing people against their will because of perceived defects. The coathanger brigade is truly sending their best and brightest to this one.
 
2014-01-15 02:29:47 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: If you support abortion how can you oppose eugenics?


Umm... because supporting abortion and opposing eugenics are both based in protecting a person's right to control their own reproductive choices?
 
2014-01-15 02:33:37 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: If you support abortion how can you oppose eugenics?


Short, concise, and utterly illogical.  Starts off strong with a nice "u mad" finish.

11/10, well done sir.
 
2014-01-15 02:33:43 PM  
I'm really in the mood for some scrambled eggs right about now
 
2014-01-15 02:36:07 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: If you support abortion how can you oppose eugenics?


You will get bites for this
 
2014-01-15 02:37:06 PM  

unlikely: "The United States was the first country to concertedly undertake compulsory sterilization programs for the purpose of eugenics. The heads of the program were avid believers in eugenics and frequently argued for their program.  The principal targets of the American program were the intellectually disabled and the mentally ill, but also targeted under many state laws were the deaf, the blind, people with epilepsy, and the physically deformed.

Some sterilizations took place in prisons and other penal institutions, targeting criminality, but they were in the relative minority. In the end, over 65,000 individuals were sterilized in 33 states under state compulsory sterilization programs in the United States."

Source


Yah really.

They should try this again now. I propse all the beer and hotdogs served at NASCAR events should make you sterile.
 
2014-01-15 02:40:58 PM  

ilikeracecars: edmo: It will be interesting to see what they find "desirable"

Boys.


This is somewhat of a misunderstanding. They don't find girl babies bad in general. On the contrary, most prospective Chinese parents would LOVE it if all of their neighbors were able to plenty of healthy daughters. It would make it easier for the prospective parents' own sons (and only sons) to get married when they grow up.

But then you run into the "prisoner's dilemna", and now the country has a shortage of women, and a surplus of desperate men.
 
2014-01-15 02:43:59 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Contrabulous Flabtraption: If you support abortion how can you oppose eugenics?

Short, concise, and utterly illogical.  Starts off strong with a nice "u mad" finish.

11/10, well done sir.


I liked it a lot too. I mean to the extent that I like any emotionally underdeveloped moron's attention seeking mechanisms....but you see my point.
 
2014-01-15 02:45:51 PM  
when you start down the road of genetically modifying humans your on a dangerous path.
 
2014-01-15 02:53:10 PM  

RexTalionis: Uh, no, submitter.

1) You're a jackass for Godwinning this thread.

2) Eugenics is done through selective breeding between parents having desirable traits. This ain't it.

3) This is a Genomics institution - one of the largest in the world by the way, with many advances - studying the genetic component for intelligence. The same research is being done by lots of other researchers in lots of other countries, including the US.

For instance, here's a study from the UK:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3182557/

4) The whole "genetically engineering babies" thing was just FUD added by the Daily Mail and not actually what BGI is doing.


No, you don't understand.  Nazis used science!  Science bad!  You just have no room for nuance with all those relevant details you include.
 
2014-01-15 02:56:36 PM  
 
2014-01-15 03:00:45 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: now the country has a shortage of women, and a surplus of desperate men.


What's the optimum number of desperate men?
 
2014-01-15 03:02:21 PM  

grimlock1972: when you start down the road of genetically modifying humans your on a dangerous path.


I'd be okay with genetically modifying people to tell the difference between "your" and "you're".
 
2014-01-15 03:05:04 PM  

yakmans_dad: Cubicle Jockey: now the country has a shortage of women, and a surplus of desperate men.

What's the optimum number of desperate men?



I am pretty sure De Beers could answer that one.
 
2014-01-15 03:06:22 PM  
So, selective breeding? My Cocker Spaniel approves.
/But he's dumb as a post and going blind.
 
2014-01-15 03:09:22 PM  
My god, if everyone started having children with the best genes of both parents... Wait, I've lost my train of outrage.
 
2014-01-15 03:11:32 PM  

Tigger: I liked it a lot too. I mean to the extent that I like any emotionally underdeveloped moron's attention seeking mechanisms....but you see my point.


I'd rather think of it as posted by an emotionally underdeveloped moron than someone who actually believes what he wrote.  Trolling is bad, but actually believing the stuff you troll with is way, way worse.
 
2014-01-15 03:15:10 PM  
In before "Typical stupid Lib---"

Contrabulous Flabtraption: If you support abortion how can you oppose eugenics?


Dangnangit.
 
2014-01-15 03:19:10 PM  
you know who else....ah nevermind.
 
2014-01-15 03:22:43 PM  

yakmans_dad: Cubicle Jockey: now the country has a shortage of women, and a surplus of desperate men.

What's the optimum number of desperate men?


Fark's gotta gave some data on this.
 
2014-01-15 03:23:41 PM  
Let's see, we live on a planet where selfish idiots are sucking up too many resources and creating too much destructive waste, we're out breeding our environment's ability to sustain us long term, and we're lacking in innovative business leaders, politicians, and scientists who can implement useful and equitable solutions to fix it (and we're missing the intelligent populace to support, fund, vote for, and educate them).....

.....and you're criticizing a solution whose sole aim is creating a future generation of more intelligent children to populate the Earth?  We use medicine to extend our lives.  We use education to make us more capable in our environment.  We use nutrition to make us healthy.  Why not use science and genetics to make us smarter?  Yes, there are ethics concerns to address, but raising the baseline intelligence of future generations is a very positive thing.
 
2014-01-15 03:28:15 PM  

Khellendros: .....and you're criticizing a solution whose sole aim is creating a future generation of more intelligent children to populate the Earth?  We use medicine to extend our lives.  We use education to make us more capable in our environment.  We use nutrition to make us healthy.  Why not use science and genetics to make us smarter?  Yes, there are ethics concerns to address, but raising the baseline intelligence of future generations is a very positive thing.


How about the Law of Unintended Consequences? We don't really know as much about human genetics as we think we do.
 
2014-01-15 03:30:11 PM  
As a guy who spends all day trying to identify genes that contribute to traits much less complex than intelligence in samples orders of magnitude larger than the one described in the article, I say "Good luck with that, China."
 
2014-01-15 03:31:01 PM  

Khellendros: Let's see, we live on a planet where selfish idiots are sucking up too many resources and creating too much destructive waste, we're out breeding our environment's ability to sustain us long term, and we're lacking in innovative business leaders, politicians, and scientists who can implement useful and equitable solutions to fix it (and we're missing the intelligent populace to support, fund, vote for, and educate them).....

.....and you're criticizing a solution whose sole aim is creating a future generation of more intelligent children to populate the Earth?  We use medicine to extend our lives.  We use education to make us more capable in our environment.  We use nutrition to make us healthy.  Why not use science and genetics to make us smarter?  Yes, there are ethics concerns to address, but raising the baseline intelligence of future generations is a very positive thing.


Yeah but why spend all that time, money, and research identifying and propagating genes tied to intelligence when we can just introduce sterilization agents in all shiatty beer from Yuengling on down to Beast and Nattie Light.
 
2014-01-15 03:34:58 PM  
Hmmm, so the Kwisatz Haderach will be Chinese? Good to know...

/gotta be nicer to my Chinese food guy
 
2014-01-15 03:37:39 PM  

rsherva: As a guy who spends all day trying to identify genes that contribute to traits much less complex than intelligence in samples orders of magnitude larger than the one described in the article, I say "Good luck with that, China."


At some point in time there was a theory that intelligence was inherited from the mother. That would indicate RNA as the determining factor.
 
2014-01-15 03:44:04 PM  
edmo: ... vice Hitler ...

Is that like vice-president? When the sitting Hitler dies the vice Hitler takes his place? What happens if both the currently sitting Hitler and the vice-Hitler die at the same time? Does the Himmler become the Hitler?
 
2014-01-15 03:46:49 PM  

yourdogwantsplacenta: edmo: ... vice Hitler ...

Is that like vice-president? When the sitting Hitler dies the vice Hitler takes his place? What happens if both the currently sitting Hitler and the vice-Hitler die at the same time? Does the Himmler become the Hitler?


No, the latin meaning of vice, not the english one.
 
2014-01-15 03:48:03 PM  
Positive Eugenics  for the win!

/Yes I fully support it
 
2014-01-15 03:49:30 PM  

rsherva: As a guy who spends all day trying to identify genes that contribute to traits much less complex than intelligence in samples orders of magnitude larger than the one described in the article, I say "Good luck with that, China."


ain't gonna be easy and they will need a hell of a larger sample size, but it is possible and worth doing.
 
2014-01-15 03:50:11 PM  

simplicimus: Khellendros: .....and you're criticizing a solution whose sole aim is creating a future generation of more intelligent children to populate the Earth?  We use medicine to extend our lives.  We use education to make us more capable in our environment.  We use nutrition to make us healthy.  Why not use science and genetics to make us smarter?  Yes, there are ethics concerns to address, but raising the baseline intelligence of future generations is a very positive thing.

How about the Law of Unintended Consequences? We don't really know as much about human genetics as we think we do.


There is no progress without mistakes.  If you don't screw up, if you don't work in the unknown, it's not science, and there is no innovation or improvement.

I'm not advocating rampant and unethical leaps into Dr. Moreau territory here, but some measured steps forward to help future generations and make their lives better isn't a bad move.  Antibiotics are not as useful, we're accelerating problems with eyesight and hearing based on modern lifestyles.  Why not fix these things, and make each successive generation more insightful, mentally quicker, and more physically resilient.  And no, I'm not interested in designer babies or making better sports stars.  I'm just wanting to lower disease, raise survivability, and remove the common physical barriers introduced by our genetic traits that aren't bred out anymore.

Small moves.  Constant improvements.  Very measured.
 
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