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(The Daily Beast)   The lawyer for the ex-cop who shot and killed a man in a Florida movie theater may use the Stand Your Ground defense because the victim "threw an unknown object" at the defendant. That "object?" It was likely popcorn   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 1007
    More: Followup, Chad Oulson, florida, Case CRC1400216CFA, Busch Gardens  
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6567 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 11:31 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 03:39:13 PM  

TNel: Pangea: TNel: Cold blooded killing is ok if they text and throw popcorn when you start making a scene?

I don't think you know what cold blooded means. Reacting as a result of direct provocation is by definition, not in cold-blood.

"done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency "

"showing no sympathy or mercy"

Guy didn't even think what he did was wrong.  This wasn't an accident, this wasn't a fight that it was a life or death situation.  The guy pulled out his gun and shot the guy because popcorn was thrown at him.



Catching your wife in bed with another man is also not a fight, or a life and death situation.

When the enraged husband kills the lover, no one refers to that as cold-blooded murder.
 
2014-01-15 03:41:11 PM  

scroufus: justtray: Latinwolf: You mean like all those GZ supporters who claimed that Martin was up to no good that night, ready to do a burglary?

I think he meant the people that said things like, "GZ stalked and murdered that kid," despite only evidence to the contrary.

Since GZ didn't have to prove anything, it really didn't matter at all what Martin's motives were or what he was doing. Only the actions that he took that led to his lawful death.

But if I remember your rage from those threads, I'm pretty sure you don't want to dig this back up right now. It's not a winning proposition for you.

You mean Zimzam wasnt told by 911 dispatchers not to follow him and to stay in his car and wait for police?  I forgot that didnt happen.  If he would have listen to them then Martin would have had to deal with the police instead of being shot because Zimzam couldnt beat up a 17 year old kid.


You can take that stance... but by the EXACT same token, there is a PROVEN ~4 minute gap of time between when GZ loses sight of TM and when the attack began.  Perhaps GZ shouldn't have exited his vehicle, but TM sure as hell should have BEEN AT HOME.  He had ~4 minutes to cover 150 yds which should have taken him 20 seconds.  If GZ was up to no good by being out of the vehicle, TM was up to no good by hiding and waiting for GZ.
 
2014-01-15 03:41:30 PM  

Pathman: FlashHarry: cig-mkr: Anyone else find it odd, that in today's day and age of video, that no one else had their cell phone handy to record this?

um... a guy was just shot in front of me for using his cell phone. i'm NOT going to pull out my cell phone.

you must be over 30


why, yes. my prefrontal cortex - the part of my brain that governs rational thought and the notion of consequence - is fully developed, thank you.
 
2014-01-15 03:43:27 PM  

Pangea: TNel: Pangea: TNel: Cold blooded killing is ok if they text and throw popcorn when you start making a scene?

I don't think you know what cold blooded means. Reacting as a result of direct provocation is by definition, not in cold-blood.

"done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency "

"showing no sympathy or mercy"

Guy didn't even think what he did was wrong.  This wasn't an accident, this wasn't a fight that it was a life or death situation.  The guy pulled out his gun and shot the guy because popcorn was thrown at him.


Catching your wife in bed with another man is also not a fight, or a life and death situation.

When the enraged husband kills the lover, no one refers to that as cold-blooded murder.


I dont see how that relates to the popcorn shooter.  Was the younger guy pluggin the old dudes wife?  No.  Thats some fox news/ MSNBC correlation there.
 
2014-01-15 03:43:48 PM  

jst3p: So now that we have established that it is OK to shoot people for texting at the movies can we move on?

How do I lobby for the same treatment for those who fart as they are leaving an elevator?


Lets not get carried away. That trick is incredibly hilarious.

/ The key is to always be the farter and not the fartee.
// Not sure how to tell if you'll fart first?
/// "When it doubt, just bust one out"
 
2014-01-15 03:45:00 PM  

Mr.BobDobalita: scroufus: justtray: Latinwolf: You mean like all those GZ supporters who claimed that Martin was up to no good that night, ready to do a burglary?

I think he meant the people that said things like, "GZ stalked and murdered that kid," despite only evidence to the contrary.

Since GZ didn't have to prove anything, it really didn't matter at all what Martin's motives were or what he was doing. Only the actions that he took that led to his lawful death.

But if I remember your rage from those threads, I'm pretty sure you don't want to dig this back up right now. It's not a winning proposition for you.

You mean Zimzam wasnt told by 911 dispatchers not to follow him and to stay in his car and wait for police?  I forgot that didnt happen.  If he would have listen to them then Martin would have had to deal with the police instead of being shot because Zimzam couldnt beat up a 17 year old kid.

You can take that stance... but by the EXACT same token, there is a PROVEN ~4 minute gap of time between when GZ loses sight of TM and when the attack began.  Perhaps GZ shouldn't have exited his vehicle, but TM sure as hell should have BEEN AT HOME.  He had ~4 minutes to cover 150 yds which should have taken him 20 seconds.  If GZ was up to no good by being out of the vehicle, TM was up to no good by hiding and waiting for GZ.


Or hiding from GZ, because GZ was acting like a crazy stalker who might chase someone down and kill them....
 
2014-01-15 03:45:26 PM  
I'm just gonna chime in here, and say if I had a three-year old that could text me back, I'd be with him at home, showing him how to play Dwarf Fortress.  That little man is destined for greatness.
 
2014-01-15 03:47:01 PM  

Pathman: jst3p: yakmans_dad: The very fact that some people -- and they are not few -- find texting an "understandable" factor in murdering someone is proof that our society has become rotten to the core.

The other day we were skiing and my son (8) kicked my stepson (10) while we were at lunch. It wasn't a "hard" kick, but ski boots hurt and require more momentum to get moving than the 8 year old realized and inflicted a decent amount of pain. My son kicked him because he kept calling him names like stupid and jerk. My stepson likes to agitate people.

So clearly my son had a consequence because he was in the wrong, but I pulled my stepson aside and said told him:

"You could learn something from this too. You aren't in trouble but you are in pain. He shouldn't have kicked you but sometimes when people get angry they lash out. I am not saying he was right to kick you, but if you piss people off you might get kicked."

What kind of douche throws popcorn at strangers?


/in this case the dead kind.

your point is not lost on me and i think that was a good lesson you tried to teach your kid.  however we don't know all the facts here, do we?

sounds like the two were shouting at each other and the shooter was just as much in this guys face.  the popcorn throwing might have been a reaction to the shooter's unmetered aggression.

Is it hard to imagine that someone who could shoot someone else over this kind of thing might also have been overreacting in the moments leading up to the shooting itself?

seems to me the shooting OR the thrown popcorn could be fit into your example of dealing with your kids...

it could of course be that one hot-head throw popcorn and the other fired a gun
or it could be that the shooter really felt like this guy was going to hurt him.
or it could be that the pop-corn thrower just reacted (albeit poorly) to be berated by a nutbag over a fairly minor thing and said nutbag blew up.

it's sad that none of those 3 would surprise me much...


For sure they are both douche nozzles and the shooter could have been involved in escalating the situation as well. I am not saying the popcorn thrower deserved to die nor that death was even a foreseeable consequence. My main point is the fact that someone isn't  allowed to shoot you doesn't mean they wont.
 
2014-01-15 03:47:36 PM  
really?  15 pages and no one is wondering when Mark Wahlberg is going to visit the widow?
 
2014-01-15 03:48:18 PM  

Phinn: Fonaibung: JesusJuice: One fewer asshole in the world ruining movies for everyone. Nothing of value was lost and the cop reserved a medal.

The medal thing was a bit much, but I despise movie texters and can't feel badly about the loss of life here. There are worse crimes to worry about.

Yeah, like people who write checks in the Express Lane at the grocery store.  I mean, who writes checks anymore, Grandma?

Or people who camp out going 10 miles below the speed limit in the Express Lane of traffic.

Basically, anyone holding up Express Lanes in any context.

And HOAs.

And people who order complicated frozen coffee drinks that take 47 minutes to craft while I'm waiting on my 2-second Americano.

All. Can. Die. Now.


Jokes aside, if someone gets shot in a road rage incident for driving too slow (or like a moron), I don't weep for them either. A couple of excessive force cases are a nice way to remind people of simple basics.
 
2014-01-15 03:48:19 PM  

FlashHarry: Pathman: FlashHarry: cig-mkr: Anyone else find it odd, that in today's day and age of video, that no one else had their cell phone handy to record this?

um... a guy was just shot in front of me for using his cell phone. i'm NOT going to pull out my cell phone.

you must be over 30

why, yes. my prefrontal cortex - the part of my brain that governs rational thought and the notion of consequence - is fully developed, thank you.


so there's your problem...you're not completely plugged in and desensitized to the world around you.  ;-p
 
2014-01-15 03:48:32 PM  

scroufus: Pangea: TNel: Pangea: TNel: Cold blooded killing is ok if they text and throw popcorn when you start making a scene?

I don't think you know what cold blooded means. Reacting as a result of direct provocation is by definition, not in cold-blood.

"done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency "

"showing no sympathy or mercy"

Guy didn't even think what he did was wrong.  This wasn't an accident, this wasn't a fight that it was a life or death situation.  The guy pulled out his gun and shot the guy because popcorn was thrown at him.


Catching your wife in bed with another man is also not a fight, or a life and death situation.

When the enraged husband kills the lover, no one refers to that as cold-blooded murder.

I dont see how that relates to the popcorn shooter.  Was the younger guy pluggin the old dudes wife?  No.  Thats some fox news/ MSNBC correlation there.


That's because of crime of passion is different than something that unfolds over 10-15 minutes. His example would be a crime of passion if the old guy kill or beat the guy up while the guy was porking his wife. It wouldn't be a crime of passion if:

1) Old guy went to get the cops to report adultery
2) Police told him to GTFO and STFU because adultery isn't a crime
3) Old guy comes back and is questioned about calling the cops
4) verbal jousting and/or yelling
5) young guy flings lube at the old guy
6) Old guy shoots the young gun

Crime of passion is more or less an insanity defense. The suddenness of the rage is the critical aspect.
 
2014-01-15 03:49:44 PM  

Cpl.D: I'm just gonna chime in here, and say if I had a three-year old that could text me back, I'd be with him at home, showing him how to play Dwarf Fortress.  That little man is destined for greatness.


The dead dad was texting the babysitter to check up on his daughter. During the previews.

The gunning geezer was offended someone didn't immediately respect his authoritah!
 
2014-01-15 03:50:22 PM  

Cpl.D: I'm just gonna chime in here, and say if I had a three-year old that could text me back, I'd be with him at home, showing him how to play Dwarf Fortress.  That little man is destined for greatness.


That would be impressive. He was texting the daycare provider though.
 
2014-01-15 03:50:32 PM  

Private_Citizen: Mr.BobDobalita: scroufus: justtray: Latinwolf: You mean like all those GZ supporters who claimed that Martin was up to no good that night, ready to do a burglary?

I think he meant the people that said things like, "GZ stalked and murdered that kid," despite only evidence to the contrary.

Since GZ didn't have to prove anything, it really didn't matter at all what Martin's motives were or what he was doing. Only the actions that he took that led to his lawful death.

But if I remember your rage from those threads, I'm pretty sure you don't want to dig this back up right now. It's not a winning proposition for you.

You mean Zimzam wasnt told by 911 dispatchers not to follow him and to stay in his car and wait for police?  I forgot that didnt happen.  If he would have listen to them then Martin would have had to deal with the police instead of being shot because Zimzam couldnt beat up a 17 year old kid.

You can take that stance... but by the EXACT same token, there is a PROVEN ~4 minute gap of time between when GZ loses sight of TM and when the attack began.  Perhaps GZ shouldn't have exited his vehicle, but TM sure as hell should have BEEN AT HOME.  He had ~4 minutes to cover 150 yds which should have taken him 20 seconds.  If GZ was up to no good by being out of the vehicle, TM was up to no good by hiding and waiting for GZ.

Or hiding from GZ, because GZ was acting like a crazy stalker who might chase someone down and kill them....



Nope.  Testimony by the tire-necked girl had TM stating "i"m not going to run" and derogatory remarks referencing "cracker", etc...         Are you suggesting that someone would call 911 and know that the police was only minutes or seconds away, with the intention to murder someone?
 
2014-01-15 03:50:48 PM  

Pangea: TNel: Pangea: TNel: Cold blooded killing is ok if they text and throw popcorn when you start making a scene?

I don't think you know what cold blooded means. Reacting as a result of direct provocation is by definition, not in cold-blood.

"done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency "

"showing no sympathy or mercy"

Guy didn't even think what he did was wrong.  This wasn't an accident, this wasn't a fight that it was a life or death situation.  The guy pulled out his gun and shot the guy because popcorn was thrown at him.


Catching your wife in bed with another man is also not a fight, or a life and death situation.

When the enraged husband kills the lover, no one refers to that as cold-blooded murder.


That used to be a legitimate excuse. Until the early 1970s, in every State, one could legally murder one's wife if one could plead that she was having an affair, and the threshold for proof of that was nearly nonexistent.
 
2014-01-15 03:51:42 PM  

Mr.BobDobalita: scroufus: justtray: Latinwolf: You mean like all those GZ supporters who claimed that Martin was up to no good that night, ready to do a burglary?

I think he meant the people that said things like, "GZ stalked and murdered that kid," despite only evidence to the contrary.

Since GZ didn't have to prove anything, it really didn't matter at all what Martin's motives were or what he was doing. Only the actions that he took that led to his lawful death.

But if I remember your rage from those threads, I'm pretty sure you don't want to dig this back up right now. It's not a winning proposition for you.

You mean Zimzam wasnt told by 911 dispatchers not to follow him and to stay in his car and wait for police?  I forgot that didnt happen.  If he would have listen to them then Martin would have had to deal with the police instead of being shot because Zimzam couldnt beat up a 17 year old kid.

You can take that stance... but by the EXACT same token, there is a PROVEN ~4 minute gap of time between when GZ loses sight of TM and when the attack began.  Perhaps GZ shouldn't have exited his vehicle, but TM sure as hell should have BEEN AT HOME.  He had ~4 minutes to cover 150 yds which should have taken him 20 seconds.  If GZ was up to no good by being out of the vehicle, TM was up to no good by hiding and waiting for GZ.

He should have been at home at 7pm ?  You mean to tell me at 17 you werent allowed to stay out past 7pm or walk down to the store?  Kid was probably tired of that dude always suspecting him of a crime.   Was Martin an upstanding student? Should he have started a fight with the Zimzam?  No.  Kid was 168 pounds and Zimzam couldnt beat him up and WAS A farkING KID. under 18 is a kid no if ands or buts about his size.  Which is 5ft11 168 pounds.  Sounds pretty skinny.   Zimzam Sounds like a pussy to me.   Ill be damned if i let a 17 year old kid get the best of me in a fist fight.
 
2014-01-15 03:52:34 PM  
What size popcorn was it? Toxic buttery topping or not? Poor reporting, never delivering pertinent facts,
 
2014-01-15 03:52:45 PM  
www.thedailysheeple.com
 
2014-01-15 03:53:17 PM  

Private_Citizen: Mr.BobDobalita: scroufus: justtray: Latinwolf: You mean like all those GZ supporters who claimed that Martin was up to no good that night, ready to do a burglary?

I think he meant the people that said things like, "GZ stalked and murdered that kid," despite only evidence to the contrary.

Since GZ didn't have to prove anything, it really didn't matter at all what Martin's motives were or what he was doing. Only the actions that he took that led to his lawful death.

But if I remember your rage from those threads, I'm pretty sure you don't want to dig this back up right now. It's not a winning proposition for you.

You mean Zimzam wasnt told by 911 dispatchers not to follow him and to stay in his car and wait for police?  I forgot that didnt happen.  If he would have listen to them then Martin would have had to deal with the police instead of being shot because Zimzam couldnt beat up a 17 year old kid.

You can take that stance... but by the EXACT same token, there is a PROVEN ~4 minute gap of time between when GZ loses sight of TM and when the attack began.  Perhaps GZ shouldn't have exited his vehicle, but TM sure as hell should have BEEN AT HOME.  He had ~4 minutes to cover 150 yds which should have taken him 20 seconds.  If GZ was up to no good by being out of the vehicle, TM was up to no good by hiding and waiting for GZ.

Or hiding from GZ, because GZ was acting like a crazy stalker who might chase someone down and kill them....


IF TM was in fear, why didn't HE call the cops?  Why didn't he call his dad?   Why did he get off the phone with "dee dee"?  He had ~4 minutes... why didn't he run home?  He could have been to the house easily before GZ could have gotten him...  and TM's dad is NOT a little man.  He could have helped TM if he was actually in trouble.

Truth is he wasn't.  He had a history of fighting.  THere are extensive text conversations where he talks about his MMA fighting.  He waited because he wanted to fight.
 
2014-01-15 03:54:26 PM  

Deathfrogg: Pangea: TNel: Pangea: TNel: Cold blooded killing is ok if they text and throw popcorn when you start making a scene?

I don't think you know what cold blooded means. Reacting as a result of direct provocation is by definition, not in cold-blood.

"done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency "

"showing no sympathy or mercy"

Guy didn't even think what he did was wrong.  This wasn't an accident, this wasn't a fight that it was a life or death situation.  The guy pulled out his gun and shot the guy because popcorn was thrown at him.


Catching your wife in bed with another man is also not a fight, or a life and death situation.

When the enraged husband kills the lover, no one refers to that as cold-blooded murder.

That used to be a legitimate excuse. Until the early 1970s, in every State, one could legally murder one's wife if one could plead that she was having an affair, and the threshold for proof of that was nearly nonexistent.


So, how did Andy Dufraine get convicted then?
 
2014-01-15 03:54:54 PM  

jst3p: For sure they are both douche nozzles and the shooter could have been involved in escalating the situation as well. I am not saying the popcorn thrower deserved to die nor that death was even a foreseeable consequence. My main point is the fact that someone isn't  allowed to shoot you doesn't mean they wont.



perfectly fair.  i know exactly what you mean - what i'm doing a bad job articulating is that we don't quite know that the victim wasn't just reacting to this guy's overreaction.  see what i mean?
i don't go to the movies and if i did i certainly wouldn't be on my phone during it and it would definitely annoy me if someone in front of me was.  not sure i'd care if he was doing it during the previews, but i have to admit i'd probably notice and be wary that he'd keep doing it during the film...

however - if some dude started screaming at me like a loon i'm not sure how i'd react.  maybe throwing the popcorn was a defense mechanism?  or maybe he's a douche.  we don't know yet...

i didn't mean to imply at all that you were excusing it and i agree 100% that "just because they shouldn't doesn't mean they won't" is a great way to word it.  file it under the only rule any of us ever really need: don't be a dick.
 
2014-01-15 03:55:02 PM  

Farker Soze: Deathfrogg: Pangea: TNel: Pangea: TNel: Cold blooded killing is ok if they text and throw popcorn when you start making a scene?

I don't think you know what cold blooded means. Reacting as a result of direct provocation is by definition, not in cold-blood.

"done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency "

"showing no sympathy or mercy"

Guy didn't even think what he did was wrong.  This wasn't an accident, this wasn't a fight that it was a life or death situation.  The guy pulled out his gun and shot the guy because popcorn was thrown at him.


Catching your wife in bed with another man is also not a fight, or a life and death situation.

When the enraged husband kills the lover, no one refers to that as cold-blooded murder.

That used to be a legitimate excuse. Until the early 1970s, in every State, one could legally murder one's wife if one could plead that she was having an affair, and the threshold for proof of that was nearly nonexistent.

So, how did Andy Dufraine get convicted then?


Lawyer farked him.
 
2014-01-15 03:55:05 PM  
Who here has thrown popcorn at strangers in a movie theatre?

And who has flung lead at strangers?
 
2014-01-15 03:56:19 PM  

Deathfrogg: Pangea: TNel: Pangea: TNel: Cold blooded killing is ok if they text and throw popcorn when you start making a scene?

I don't think you know what cold blooded means. Reacting as a result of direct provocation is by definition, not in cold-blood.

"done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency "

"showing no sympathy or mercy"

Guy didn't even think what he did was wrong.  This wasn't an accident, this wasn't a fight that it was a life or death situation.  The guy pulled out his gun and shot the guy because popcorn was thrown at him.


Catching your wife in bed with another man is also not a fight, or a life and death situation.

When the enraged husband kills the lover, no one refers to that as cold-blooded murder.

That used to be a legitimate excuse. Until the early 1970s, in every State, one could legally murder one's wife if one could plead that she was having an affair, and the threshold for proof of that was nearly nonexistent.


It was a temporary insanity plea, not a carte blanche to murder your wife. It usually involved the defendant being put under mental care or completely failing. Bunch of people were executed even though they plead crime of passion. Best I can think of is Marvin Gaye's dad, and he got 5 years probation and a suspended multi-year sentence as part of a plea bargain.
 
2014-01-15 03:56:27 PM  
No Hero tag for the shooter?  Come on fark, think how many future movies have been saved this guys texting.  That ass could have been texting next to YOU next.
 
2014-01-15 03:56:49 PM  

Farker Soze: Deathfrogg:

That used to be a legitimate excuse. Until the early 1970s, in every State, one could legally murder one's wife if one could plead that she was having an affair, and the threshold for proof of that was nearly nonexistent.

So, how did Andy Dufraine get convicted then?


Really? You're going to use a fictional movie character as your example?


>headdesk
 
2014-01-15 03:57:04 PM  

scroufus: Mr.BobDobalita: scroufus: justtray: Latinwolf: You mean like all those GZ supporters who claimed that Martin was up to no good that night, ready to do a burglary?

I think he meant the people that said things like, "GZ stalked and murdered that kid," despite only evidence to the contrary.

Since GZ didn't have to prove anything, it really didn't matter at all what Martin's motives were or what he was doing. Only the actions that he took that led to his lawful death.

But if I remember your rage from those threads, I'm pretty sure you don't want to dig this back up right now. It's not a winning proposition for you.

You mean Zimzam wasnt told by 911 dispatchers not to follow him and to stay in his car and wait for police?  I forgot that didnt happen.  If he would have listen to them then Martin would have had to deal with the police instead of being shot because Zimzam couldnt beat up a 17 year old kid.

You can take that stance... but by the EXACT same token, there is a PROVEN ~4 minute gap of time between when GZ loses sight of TM and when the attack began.  Perhaps GZ shouldn't have exited his vehicle, but TM sure as hell should have BEEN AT HOME.  He had ~4 minutes to cover 150 yds which should have taken him 20 seconds.  If GZ was up to no good by being out of the vehicle, TM was up to no good by hiding and waiting for GZ.
He should have been at home at 7pm ?  You mean to tell me at 17 you werent allowed to stay out past 7pm or walk down to the store?  Kid was probably tired of that dude always suspecting him of a crime.   Was Martin an upstanding student? Should he have started a fight with the Zimzam?  No.  Kid was 168 pounds and Zimzam couldnt beat him up and WAS A farkING KID. under 18 is a kid no if ands or buts about his size.  Which is 5ft11 168 pounds.  Sounds pretty skinny.   Zimzam Sounds like a pussy to me.   Ill be damned if i let a 17 year old kid get the best of me in a fist fight.



I never said he should have been home because of his age or because of a curfew or something.  If he was "being stalked" or "scared of the creepy ass cracker" he should have went to his home that was 20 seconds away.  He should have called the police.  He should have called his father.  He, however was NOT scared.  He said as much to Dee Dee.  He told her he wasnt' going to run.  People keep saying "GZ shouldn't have been out of his car" but fail to put any responsibility on TM for not going to his house or getting help if he supposedly was afraid.  It's because he wasnt' afraid and he confronted GZ.

And I"m 6' 175lbs.  I -guarantee- if I hit you in the face you would know and it would hurt.   It's not like he was some 100lb 13 year old.  He was FULL GROWN MAN SIZED.
 
2014-01-15 03:57:17 PM  

jst3p: Lawyer farked him.


bravo
 
2014-01-15 03:57:37 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: I told you that it would happen. They need to test the father for marijuana.


How much you want to bet that they can't find any pictures of him doing illegal drugs, holding illegal firearms, and I'm also willing to bet he wasn't in possession of stolen goods.

Good try though.  Racist.
 
2014-01-15 03:57:40 PM  

Pathman: perfectly fair.  i know exactly what you mean - what i'm doing a bad job articulating is that we don't quite know that the victim wasn't just reacting to this guy's overreaction.  see what i mean?


If that were the case he fell victim to one of the three classic blunders:

1) never get in a land war in Asia
2) Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

and the third, which is only slightly less well known:

3) don't bring popcorn to a gunfight.

Pathman: i didn't mean to imply at all that you were excusing it and i agree 100% that "just because they shouldn't doesn't mean they won't" is a great way to word it.  file it under the only rule any of us ever really need: don't be a dick.



Agreed, "Don't start shiat and there wont be shiat."
 
2014-01-15 03:58:12 PM  

redmid17: Crime of passion is more or less an insanity defense. The suddenness of the rage is the critical aspect.


which i would argue probably applies here...not a defense in any way, mind you, to get him off - but more to establish motive.  i doubt the dude was calm-cool-collect about it.  i suspect he just snapped....even if he did go get the car i tihnk he was seeing red more than blue.  the entire discussion started because the term "cold-blooded" was used.

maybe that's exactly what he is...i think he's just a hateful nut who snapped.  either way i guess it doesn't matter.
 
2014-01-15 03:58:33 PM  

redmid17: Cpl.D: I'm just gonna chime in here, and say if I had a three-year old that could text me back, I'd be with him at home, showing him how to play Dwarf Fortress.  That little man is destined for greatness.

That would be impressive. He was texting the daycare provider though.


I guess it would've helped if I'd rtfa.   Hah.

/nevermind me
 
2014-01-15 04:01:48 PM  

Farker Soze: justtray: justtray: Latinwolf: Dimensio: Fark It: Who needs facts when you have feelings?

The Violence Policy Center is in possession of "facts". They have a list of every murder committed by a concealed weapons permit holder since 2007. The list is so compelling as evidence that the organization did not need to compare the number of listees to total concealed weapons permit holders, nor did they need to compare the murders committed by permit holders to murders committed by the general adult public. The list is so well-researched that it even includes people who did not hold a concealed weapons permit at all.

Oh you trying for your second hit of the day.

I don't ever listen to anything Dimensio says, but I'm actually interested in those numbers, if they are out there. I remember debunking the "police officers murder more people than non police officers," but I'd like to take a crack at the CCW figures too.

Nevermind, I googled it myself. It debunks itself.

No comprehensive data exists on non-self defense killings by private citizens legally allowed to carry concealed handguns.

Funny you didn't cite that that quote comes directly from the Violence Policy Center website.  I'd think that you'd be proud of such an unbiased source.


The basis of the Violence Policy Center's claim is that the National Rifle Association has lobbied for laws preventing the release of such information.

The meaning of that claim is that most states do not make available to the public a list of names and addresses of every person issued a concealed weapons permit by the state, thus the Violence Policy Center cannot obtain that list and compare every accused murderer with a name on the list.

Note that Texas explicitly compiles and releases data regarding criminal convictions of concealed weapons permit holders. Strangely, despite having access to such explicit information, the Violence Policy Center never cites the state report in their arguments.
 
2014-01-15 04:01:50 PM  

Deathfrogg: Farker Soze: Deathfrogg:

That used to be a legitimate excuse. Until the early 1970s, in every State, one could legally murder one's wife if one could plead that she was having an affair, and the threshold for proof of that was nearly nonexistent.

So, how did Andy Dufraine get convicted then?

Really? You're going to use a fictional movie character as your example?


>headdesk


I don't think his post was intended to be taken seriously.
 
2014-01-15 04:02:03 PM  
The shooter will go free when it's revealed that the guy he shot was really a black teenager disguised as a 40 year old white male in order to close enough to the man's wife and rape her. Everyone knows that black teenagers are all thugs and cannot resist raping all the white women. The shooter is truly a hero, and I will give him all my Social Security checks.
 
2014-01-15 04:02:10 PM  

Deathfrogg: Farker Soze: Deathfrogg:

That used to be a legitimate excuse. Until the early 1970s, in every State, one could legally murder one's wife if one could plead that she was having an affair, and the threshold for proof of that was nearly nonexistent.

So, how did Andy Dufraine get convicted then?

Really? You're going to use a fictional movie character as your example?


>headdesk


Settle down, dude.  He had a perfectly fine excuse, yet the defense went with "I didn't do it".  Lawyer farked him, indeed.
 
2014-01-15 04:02:22 PM  

Pathman: redmid17: Crime of passion is more or less an insanity defense. The suddenness of the rage is the critical aspect.

which i would argue probably applies here...not a defense in any way, mind you, to get him off - but more to establish motive.  i doubt the dude was calm-cool-collect about it.  i suspect he just snapped....even if he did go get the car i tihnk he was seeing red more than blue.  the entire discussion started because the term "cold-blooded" was used.

maybe that's exactly what he is...i think he's just a hateful nut who snapped.  either way i guess it doesn't matter.


I don't think you can really argue that. He was asked the texter to stop. He tried to get a manager and couldn't. People in the article said he came back angry. They argued for several more minutes. Texter through popcorn at him, and then he shot the guy. That's pretty much the opposite of sudden.
 
2014-01-15 04:04:31 PM  

Farker Soze: Deathfrogg: Farker Soze: Deathfrogg:

That used to be a legitimate excuse. Until the early 1970s, in every State, one could legally murder one's wife if one could plead that she was having an affair, and the threshold for proof of that was nearly nonexistent.

So, how did Andy Dufraine get convicted then?

Really? You're going to use a fictional movie character as your example?


>headdesk

Settle down, dude.  He had a perfectly fine excuse, yet the defense went with "I didn't do it".  Lawyer farked him, indeed.


"If'n I drop this television you got me on destruction of property too!"
 
2014-01-15 04:04:33 PM  

Kahabut: DROxINxTHExWIND: I told you that it would happen. They need to test the father for marijuana.

How much you want to bet that they can't find any pictures of him doing illegal drugs, holding illegal firearms, and I'm also willing to bet he wasn't in possession of stolen goods.

Good try though.  Racist.


Is it not illegal to concealed carry in an establishment that has a no firearms policy?  Doesn't that make the gun in the theater illegal?
 
2014-01-15 04:06:28 PM  

scroufus: He should have been at home at 7pm ?  You mean to tell me at 17 you werent allowed to stay out past 7pm or walk down to the store?  Kid was probably tired of that dude always suspecting him of a crime.   Was Martin an upstanding student? Should he have started a fight with the Zimzam?  No.  Kid was 168 pounds and Zimzam couldnt beat him up and WAS A farkING KID. under 18 is a kid no if ands or buts about his size.  Which is 5ft11 168 pounds.  Sounds pretty skinny.   Zimzam Sounds like a pussy to me.   Ill be damned if i let a 17 year old kid get the best of me in a fist fight.


nobody thinks that kid deserved to die. nobody reasonable anyway.  but the reality is Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.  it's a tragedy what happened to that boy, but that doesn't mean Zimmerman committed a crime.  It also doens't make him a hero or even a good person...like i said, it's a tragedy.
 
2014-01-15 04:07:16 PM  
This is another GREAT example of responsible defensive loadouts. A .380 was the perfect choice for this situation- if Rambo over there had had a high powered handgun like a Glock 17 or a .45 and non frangible rounds(which are the norm) instead, and he'd missed, it would have gone through a couple of seatbacks and still be a danger.

Hell, it could have gone right through Popcorn as well, although even a coated 9MM is pretty spent after traveling through a corpus.

The .380 would have stopped in the next movie seat; and it stopped the threat too. Perfect choice for self-defense carry. Lots of cops have seen what overpowered loads can do indoors, and they're actually the main audience for frangible rounds in their service weapons right now. It'd be nice to see some more of that common-sense attitude filter out to the shooting/defensive carry community at large
 
2014-01-15 04:07:44 PM  

scroufus: Pangea:Catching your wife in bed with another man is also not a fight, or a life and death situation.

When the enraged husband kills the lover, no one refers to that as cold-blooded murder.

I dont see how that relates to the popcorn shooter.  Was the younger guy pluggin the old dudes wife?  No.  Thats some fox news/ MSNBC correlation there.



I am saying that being pissed off is what makes it not cold-blooded.

It's often the difference between a charge of first and second degree murder, so it's an important distinction.
 
2014-01-15 04:07:44 PM  

blindio: The best part of this thread is all the rude assholes celebrating that some guy was murdered in a movie theater because *during the previews* he was texting.   Presumably because they believe he was being a rude asshole and deserved to be shot for it.


Meh.  FARK is a place where miserable little assholes can go and post all of the crap no one gives a damn to hear them say, or that they'd be too frightened to.  See also any thread about race.  I wouldn't take them too seriously; no one else they know does.
 
2014-01-15 04:08:28 PM  

Egoy3k: Kahabut: DROxINxTHExWIND: I told you that it would happen. They need to test the father for marijuana.

How much you want to bet that they can't find any pictures of him doing illegal drugs, holding illegal firearms, and I'm also willing to bet he wasn't in possession of stolen goods.

Good try though.  Racist.

Is it not illegal to concealed carry in an establishment that has a no firearms policy?  Doesn't that make the gun in the theater illegal?


yup - probably.  definitely trespass anyway.  most places have statutory regulations giving businesses the authority to say "no guns"

as well they should!  your property, your right.
 
2014-01-15 04:08:29 PM  
Mr.BobDobalita:

I never said he should have been home because of his age or because of a curfew or something.  If he was "being stalked" or "scared of the creepy ass cracker" he should have went to his home that was 20 seconds away.  He should have called the police.  He should have called his father.  He, however was NOT scared.  He said as much to Dee Dee.  He told her he wasnt' going to run.  People keep saying "GZ shouldn't have been out of his car" but fail to put any responsibility on TM for not going to his house or getting help if he supposedly was afraid.  It's because he wasnt' afraid and he confronted GZ.
And I"m 6' 175lbs.  I -guarantee- if I hit you in the face you would know and it would hurt.   It's not like he was some 100lb 13 year old.  He was FULL GROWN MAN SIZED.

 
You are telling me a kid didnt make the right choice?  Like that never happens?  He was a kid after all.  You can say full grown man sized all you want but he was still a kid.  He wasnt old enough to enlist not old enough to vote not old enough to date a woman that is past 20.  That makes him a kid.    You putting responsibility on a 17 year old is not only dumb but just plain retarded.  Very few teenagers are responsible.   Would you run if someone kept messing with you?  He was probably taught to handle your business if someone if messing with you. And you handle it with your fist not a gun.  I like how people say about him being grown man sized.  Well Zimzam is a grown man and he should have been able to fight some one who is grown man sized and if you lose you lose. I highly doubt a 17 year old kid could beat a man to death bare handed.     Yea any person that clocks you right in the face you are gonna feel it.   You can say oh he should have just went home same goes for zimzam he should have just stayed in his car.   Zimzam is an Adult and should have known better.  That was not his job to go and follow someone that he suspect is a criminal because you are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty.    Was zimzam in his mind in fear of his life during that fight? Yea possibly but he should have at least got manslaughter because if he would have never got out his car it would have never happened.  He started it not the kid. The judge even strongly hinted at that.
 
2014-01-15 04:09:37 PM  

Dimensio: Do you suggest repealing all laws justifying the use of deadly force, and thus prohibiting the use of deadly force at any time, regardless of circumstance, merely because an individual who commits homicide may attempt to reference those laws as part of their defense regardless of circumstance or applicability?


Nobody's saying that, and you know it.

The problem with Stand Your Ground is that it removes the obligation to retreat until such time as deadly force is necessary, which makes the margin between "verbal altercation" and "second-degree murder" much thinner.  It also makes it easier for the police to forgo opening an investigation in cases that appear to be self-defense.  That's why Zimmerman wasn't investigated for murder until weeks after he killed Trayvon Martin.

Not to mention that this probably wouldn't even be a problem were there not so many paranoid and legalistically pedantic gun owners in this country.
 
2014-01-15 04:09:40 PM  

scroufus: justtray: Latinwolf: You mean like all those GZ supporters who claimed that Martin was up to no good that night, ready to do a burglary?

I think he meant the people that said things like, "GZ stalked and murdered that kid," despite only evidence to the contrary.

Since GZ didn't have to prove anything, it really didn't matter at all what Martin's motives were or what he was doing. Only the actions that he took that led to his lawful death.

But if I remember your rage from those threads, I'm pretty sure you don't want to dig this back up right now. It's not a winning proposition for you.

You mean Zimzam wasnt told by 911 dispatchers not to follow him and to stay in his car and wait for police?  I forgot that didnt happen.  If he would have listen to them then Martin would have had to deal with the police instead of being shot because Zimzam couldnt beat up a 17 year old kid.


The actual statement was that Mr. Zimmerman did not need to follow Mr. Martin, rather than explicit instruction not to do so. Mr. Zimmerman claimed that he was already outside of his vehicle and a substantial distance away when that statement was made to him, and that he prepared to return to his vehicle after the call terminated.

Whether the statement is false is unproven; even the prosecution admitted an inability to disprove Mr. Zimmerman's assertion.
 
2014-01-15 04:09:41 PM  

Pathman: redmid17: Crime of passion is more or less an insanity defense. The suddenness of the rage is the critical aspect.

which i would argue probably applies here...not a defense in any way, mind you, to get him off - but more to establish motive.  i doubt the dude was calm-cool-collect about it.  i suspect he just snapped....even if he did go get the car i tihnk he was seeing red more than blue.  the entire discussion started because the term "cold-blooded" was used.

maybe that's exactly what he is...i think he's just a hateful nut who snapped.  either way i guess it doesn't matter.


People rarely "just snap". This murder comes from a lifetime of being a cop who had felt entitled to "respect" based on the presence of a badge and the corresponding license to kill that comes with it, and then being disrespected for being the self-appointed "law of the theater". This guy was building up to something like this, probably for years.

What he was, was a demented, elderly self-entitled prick with a chip on his shoulder and a handgun in his pocket that he was itching to use. He's no different from the WW1 Vet I used to live next door to when I was a kid, who would chase the neighborhood kids away from his yard with a shovel every time they got too close to his fence. If a ball or a frisbee went over that fence, it was flat out gone, and every kid who lived within four blocks knew it.
 
2014-01-15 04:10:45 PM  

redmid17: Pathman: redmid17: Crime of passion is more or less an insanity defense. The suddenness of the rage is the critical aspect.

which i would argue probably applies here...not a defense in any way, mind you, to get him off - but more to establish motive.  i doubt the dude was calm-cool-collect about it.  i suspect he just snapped....even if he did go get the car i tihnk he was seeing red more than blue.  the entire discussion started because the term "cold-blooded" was used.

maybe that's exactly what he is...i think he's just a hateful nut who snapped.  either way i guess it doesn't matter.

I don't think you can really argue that. He was asked the texter to stop. He tried to get a manager and couldn't. People in the article said he came back angry. They argued for several more minutes. Texter through popcorn at him, and then he shot the guy. That's pretty much the opposite of sudden.


that's all true.  i'm just saying maybe he didn't intend to shoot that guy until the point when he lost it and shot the guy.
you know what i mean?
 
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