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(The Daily Beast)   The lawyer for the ex-cop who shot and killed a man in a Florida movie theater may use the Stand Your Ground defense because the victim "threw an unknown object" at the defendant. That "object?" It was likely popcorn   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 1007
    More: Followup, Chad Oulson, florida, Case CRC1400216CFA, Busch Gardens  
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6568 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 11:31 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 11:56:34 AM  

Satanus Maximus: Will this result in smaller popcorn buckets?


no, but the ones with bayonet lugs and pistol grips will be illegal.  Large capacity buckets will be illegal as well, and forget about free refills.
 
2014-01-15 11:56:40 AM  

Headso: Hey the law is the law, if the guy felt threatened and he was in a dangerous situation he has no duty to retreat.



That's not the law.
 
2014-01-15 11:56:54 AM  

Fark It: CrazyCracka420: Generation_D: It appears if you are a cop, or a wannabe cop, Florida is your paradise these days.

All you need is

1) A gun

2) An attitude

The shooting gallery is open, time to go hunting!

Note: fans of civilization that doesn't resemble Beirut in the 1980s, Somalia today or perhaps a very populated Old West, might want to just skip Florida entirely.

Let the inbreds and the senile battle it out.

Actually the "Wild West" had stricter gun control laws, and a lot less firearm deaths (at least that they documented, I suspect some people get killed and were buried in the desert without a trace...so the numbers may be skewed).  I read that the most firearm deaths in any year, was 4 in Tombstone, the year of the OK Corral gun fight.  Most frontier towns averaged 2 firearm deaths a year (again, this is something I read, so take with a grain of salt unless you want to do your own research).

How big was the average frontier town?


Good point, even when Tombstone was at it's most populist of 15,000-20,000 people (which looks like one of the bigger frontier towns), 2 murders would be about .0001% of the population.  When Murderapolis had it's most murders (97 in 1995) if it had a population of 370,000, it would have been .0002% of the population.  So very similar, however most frontier towns it looks like had under 2000 people, so 2 murders a year would be a lot more (per capita) than what we have now in most places.

My point was that there was rampant murders with firearms in the Wild West like some people have been led to believe.
 
2014-01-15 11:57:28 AM  

vpb: It will probably work.


No, it likely won't.  And here's the thing...  (too bad there are 145 comments before this that may have already said this...)

As a defense attorney, it is your job to come up with THE BEST defense for your client.  This is the way it has to be, even if many think it's absurd.  For the attorney to NOT do that would mean that his client didn't get a fair trial.  This could mean that the murdering bastard could go free.  The defense, the prosecution, even the judge, know this.

So like it or not, the defense has to try like mad to prove his innocence so when his guilt is finally proven, it is beyond any reasonable doubt.
 
2014-01-15 11:57:30 AM  

vudukungfu: miss diminutive: Can I supersize mine to a bazooka?

Bazooka!?!?!? Bubble gum is sold in the theater lobby, miss.


southernaristocracy.files.wordpress.com

♫ Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobbyyyyy, and get ourselves an advanced recoilless rocket propelled weapon delivery system ♫
 
2014-01-15 11:57:30 AM  

CrazyCracka420: Fark It: CrazyCracka420: Generation_D: It appears if you are a cop, or a wannabe cop, Florida is your paradise these days.

All you need is

1) A gun

2) An attitude

The shooting gallery is open, time to go hunting!

Note: fans of civilization that doesn't resemble Beirut in the 1980s, Somalia today or perhaps a very populated Old West, might want to just skip Florida entirely.

Let the inbreds and the senile battle it out.

Actually the "Wild West" had stricter gun control laws, and a lot less firearm deaths (at least that they documented, I suspect some people get killed and were buried in the desert without a trace...so the numbers may be skewed).  I read that the most firearm deaths in any year, was 4 in Tombstone, the year of the OK Corral gun fight.  Most frontier towns averaged 2 firearm deaths a year (again, this is something I read, so take with a grain of salt unless you want to do your own research).

How big was the average frontier town?

Good point, even when Tombstone was at it's most populist of 15,000-20,000 people (which looks like one of the bigger frontier towns), 2 murders would be about .0001% of the population.  When Murderapolis had it's most murders (97 in 1995) if it had a population of 370,000, it would have been .0002% of the population.  So very similar, however most frontier towns it looks like had under 2000 people, so 2 murders a year would be a lot more (per capita) than what we have now in most places.

My point was that there wasn't rampant murders with firearms in the Wild West like some people have been led to believe.


fark... FTFM
 
2014-01-15 11:57:48 AM  

serial_crusher: I was amenable to the SYG defense until I saw the photo of the victim in TFA.  That's just a normal family, not at all what I'd expect somebody dangerous to look like.


It's not he was black or anything.
 
2014-01-15 11:57:56 AM  

ecl: If only everyone in the theater was packing and it turned into a whacky firefight.


076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com
 
2014-01-15 11:59:18 AM  
It's too bad the old man couldn't figure out BitTorrent.
 
2014-01-15 11:59:35 AM  

Super_pope: I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.  This guy came up thinking he could basically pick and chose who to kill by announcing, "He was reaching for something, I felt threatened," and he was right.  Problem is he doesn't have the magic shield against prosecution that a badge entails now.

What do you want to bet everyone in the department knew for years that this was an erratic guy who was prone to trying to hurt people who crossed him or talked back to him?


This.  But being this is Florida, the usual suspects are making this into a referendum on SYG and gun control, rather than taking a good, long look at LEOs.

The Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act, which allows all retired law enforcement at every level of government to carry concealed weapons anywhere, with no oversight, was reauthorized and expanded twice by President Obama.  It's OK to exempt active and retired law enforcement from any and all gun control, even though cops are much more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol, and be involved in domestic violence, but a national concealed carry program for people who want to undergo training and a background check?  Out of the question.
 
2014-01-15 11:59:42 AM  
static1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-01-15 12:00:28 PM  
So this is the zimmerman2.0.  I can't wait for the circus trial.
 
2014-01-15 12:00:32 PM  
i26.photobucket.com
 
2014-01-15 12:00:51 PM  

CrazyCracka420: Nabb1: vpb: factoryconnection: Trivia Jockey: And SYG wasn't used at his trial. QED.

Oh, that is correct as well.

Not really.  He didn't try to invoke the immunity in SYG, but "Stand Your Ground" changed the standards for self defense as well.  It eliminates any requirement to retreat.

Hard to retreat when someone has you on the ground and is giving you the business...

Yeah Zimm shot Martin while Martin was on top of him...

[stream1.gifsoup.com image 320x200]


That's the way it was established at trial. At least that's how the jury saw it. The prosecutors sure couldn't establish otherwise. Even their own medical witnesses said Zimmerman's injuries were consistent with his story about being beaten. It's okay to be disappointed in the outcome, but at least educate yourself on how that outcome came to be what it was.
 
2014-01-15 12:00:55 PM  
farking_texan: 1.  Turn off your freaking cell phone in the theater.
 2.  Turn off your freaking cell phone in the theater.
3.  Checking up on your precious snowflake doesn't give you a valid excuse to ruin the moviegoing experience for other people.  Take it outside.
4.  Turn off your freaking cell phone in the theater.
5.  A grown-ass man was throwing popcorn at someone who was asking him to act in a civilzed manner in a public place?  Douchenozzle.  Not deserving of death, but douchenozzle.
6.  A grown-ass man was throwing popcorn at someone who was asking him to act in a civilized manner in a public place.  Douchenozzle.


That texting bastard was just asking for it!
 
2014-01-15 12:01:06 PM  
Was the other guy charged with A salt and Buttery?
 
2014-01-15 12:01:49 PM  
 
2014-01-15 12:02:05 PM  

Fark It: Super_pope: I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.  This guy came up thinking he could basically pick and chose who to kill by announcing, "He was reaching for something, I felt threatened," and he was right.  Problem is he doesn't have the magic shield against prosecution that a badge entails now.

What do you want to bet everyone in the department knew for years that this was an erratic guy who was prone to trying to hurt people who crossed him or talked back to him?

This.  But being this is Florida, the usual suspects are making this into a referendum on SYG and gun control, rather than taking a good, long look at LEOs.

The Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act, which allows all retired law enforcement at every level of government to carry concealed weapons anywhere, with no oversight, was reauthorized and expanded twice by President Obama.  It's OK to exempt active and retired law enforcement from any and all gun control, even though cops are much more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol, and be involved in domestic violence, but a national concealed carry program for people who want to undergo training and a background check?  Out of the question.


The Violence Policy Center is quite pleased with this incident, as it allows them to add another entry to their list of "Concealed Carry Killers", and claim that it could have been prevented had only Florida's "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statute been repealed.
 
2014-01-15 12:02:34 PM  

vudukungfu: You toss popcorn at a cop you will get a beatdown, tased, and charged with terroristic threats, and hurling a missile like device.


Many missile-like devices, actually. Each kernel is a separate charge.
 
2014-01-15 12:02:36 PM  

LeroyBourne: So this is the zimmerman2.0.  I can't wait for the circus trial.


Gonna be hard for the media to make this a racial witch hunt with two creepy as crackers being involved.
 
2014-01-15 12:02:55 PM  

brap: Was the other guy charged with A salt and Buttery?


31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-01-15 12:03:25 PM  

Fark It: Super_pope: I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often.  This guy came up thinking he could basically pick and chose who to kill by announcing, "He was reaching for something, I felt threatened," and he was right.  Problem is he doesn't have the magic shield against prosecution that a badge entails now.

What do you want to bet everyone in the department knew for years that this was an erratic guy who was prone to trying to hurt people who crossed him or talked back to him?

This.  But being this is Florida, the usual suspects are making this into a referendum on SYG and gun control, rather than taking a good, long look at LEOs.

The Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act, which allows all retired law enforcement at every level of government to carry concealed weapons anywhere, with no oversight, was reauthorized and expanded twice by President Obama.  It's OK to exempt active and retired law enforcement from any and all gun control, even though cops are much more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol, and be involved in domestic violence, but a national concealed carry program for people who want to undergo training and a background check?  Out of the question.



Well in their defense, if the guy was a cop and he managed to get through his career and retire with benefits they probably feel like they have a good idea about his background since he technically had to be mentally stable to hold the job. I also assume they think that cops may have to deal with people who they have come into contact with during their careers who may not be happy about their last interaction.
 
2014-01-15 12:03:35 PM  
He's an old bully who is accused of harrassing other movie patrons with his pet peeve (CNN's top headline now). He got in someone's face after he couldn't get him thrown out (left the theater in a huff, returned in a huff without an employee) and pisses off the victim. Victim stands up for himself, throws popcorn and old man shoots, hitting both the wife and the husband.

This all happened during the previews. The movie was not even running yet. Guy had a big chip on his shoulder and panics when someone doesn't cower to his badge-less posturing. Charge him with murder and attempted murder, take away his toys and lock him up. Then throw more popcorn at him.

/(retired) Cops are not above the law, they are supposed to uphold it. yada yada, broken record.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 12:04:16 PM  

Ivan the Tolerable: down.
 now that he retired and couldn't just blow off steam by kicking peoples heads in whenever he felt like it, the anger may have just gotten to him until he finally exploded.


No, I think the trail of bodies would be noticeable. Even in Florida.

I know some people like to imagine cops go around killing people like some people chain smoke, but the country would be de-populated if that were actually the case.

Besides, I've seen enough old people hit that point where they start having trouble dealing with the world and they start getting frustrated and angry.
 
2014-01-15 12:04:20 PM  

brap: Was the other guy charged with A salt and Buttery?


Link.
 
2014-01-15 12:04:29 PM  
It was probably popcorn but it could have been grenade. Are you willing to take that chance?
Am I doing it right?
 
2014-01-15 12:05:09 PM  

Onkel Buck: LeroyBourne: So this is the zimmerman2.0.  I can't wait for the circus trial.

Gonna be hard for the media to make this a racial witch hunt with two creepy as crackers being involved.



Gonna be even harder for you bigots to decide who to root for.
 
2014-01-15 12:05:19 PM  
I was on Facebook when that woman realized he was the same guy that harassed her (it was a Tampa Bay Times link with the first photo of the guy). It was fun reading her realize it was him in real time.
 
2014-01-15 12:05:23 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Well in their defense, if the guy was a cop and he managed to get through his career and retire with benefits they probably feel like they have a good idea about his background since he technically had to be mentally stable to hold the job.


You don't really read much about law enforcement in this country, do you?

I also assume they think that cops may have to deal with people who they have come into contact with during their careers who may not be happy about their last interaction.

So, cops are the only people who might run into dangerous and/or angry people?  Are you saying that a concealed handgun is a good way to protect yourself from someone intent on doing harm?
 
2014-01-15 12:06:37 PM  

grokca: I blame John Cleese for not teaching us how to properly defend against popcorn.


'Ooooo, popcorn eh?  Getting all high and mighty eh?'....
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 12:06:43 PM  

ecl: If only everyone in the theater was packing and it turned into a whacky firefight.


Everyone should carry cream pies.. that way life can be like the unused ending to Doctor Strangelove...
 
2014-01-15 12:07:13 PM  
I'm so tired of these murdering pigs. And they almost always get away with it.

The government keeps lists of people it deems criminal. Maybe the Internet should maintain a list of abusive and killer pigs: their names, each new address and phone number, etc. Why should they just go on with their lives? Someone who kills one of them sure doesn't get to do that.
 
2014-01-15 12:07:16 PM  

vpb: Ivan the Tolerable: down.
 now that he retired and couldn't just blow off steam by kicking peoples heads in whenever he felt like it, the anger may have just gotten to him until he finally exploded.

No, I think the trail of bodies would be noticeable. Even in Florida.

I know some people like to imagine cops go around killing people like some people chain smoke, but the country would be de-populated if that were actually the case.

Besides, I've seen enough old people hit that point where they start having trouble dealing with the world and they start getting frustrated and angry.


I agree.  That's why we should repeal LEOSA and replace it with a national concealed carry system that establishes a training regimen and re-licensing every few years, with special cognitive tests for people old enough to collect social security.
 
2014-01-15 12:07:28 PM  

ginko: He's an old bully who is accused of harrassing other movie patrons with his pet peeve (CNN's top headline now). He got in someone's face after he couldn't get him thrown out (left the theater in a huff, returned in a huff without an employee) and pisses off the victim. Victim stands up for himself, throws popcorn and old man shoots, hitting both the wife and the husband.

This all happened during the previews. The movie was not even running yet. Guy had a big chip on his shoulder and panics when someone doesn't cower to his badge-less posturing. Charge him with murder and attempted murder, take away his toys and lock him up. Then throw more popcorn at him.

/(retired) Cops are not above the law, they are supposed to uphold it. yada yada, broken record.



Yeah, this incident has the whiff of "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!"
 
2014-01-15 12:07:37 PM  

farking_texan: 1.  Turn off your freaking cell phone in the theater.
2.  Turn off your freaking cell phone in the theater.
3.  Checking up on your precious snowflake doesn't give you a valid excuse to ruin the moviegoing experience for other people.  Take it outside.
4.  Turn off your freaking cell phone in the theater.
5.  A grown-ass man was throwing popcorn at someone who was asking him to act in a civilzed manner in a public place?  Douchenozzle.  Not deserving of death, but douchenozzle.
6.  A grown-ass man was throwing popcorn at someone who was asking him to act in a civilized manner in a public place.  Douchenozzle.


7. A grown-ass man shoots you after not following 1-6. Hero to all Texans.
 
2014-01-15 12:08:19 PM  
Oh come on!  Who hasn't wanted to shoot the farktard with the cell phone in a theater?

This man was just living the dream.
 
2014-01-15 12:08:42 PM  

CrazyCracka420: Generation_D: It appears if you are a cop, or a wannabe cop, Florida is your paradise these days.

All you need is

1) A gun

2) An attitude

The shooting gallery is open, time to go hunting!

Note: fans of civilization that doesn't resemble Beirut in the 1980s, Somalia today or perhaps a very populated Old West, might want to just skip Florida entirely.

Let the inbreds and the senile battle it out.

Actually the "Wild West" had stricter gun control laws, and a lot less firearm deaths (at least that they documented, I suspect some people get killed and were buried in the desert without a trace...so the numbers may be skewed).  I read that the most firearm deaths in any year, was 4 in Tombstone, the year of the OK Corral gun fight.  Most frontier towns averaged 2 firearm deaths a year (again, this is something I read, so take with a grain of salt unless you want to do your own research).


To be fair, they had a lot less movies back then.
 
2014-01-15 12:09:21 PM  
I hope the prison serves him nothing but popcorn for his prison meal everyday for the rest of his life.
 
2014-01-15 12:10:19 PM  

Fark It: DROxINxTHExWIND: Well in their defense, if the guy was a cop and he managed to get through his career and retire with benefits they probably feel like they have a good idea about his background since he technically had to be mentally stable to hold the job.

You don't really read much about law enforcement in this country, do you?

I also assume they think that cops may have to deal with people who they have come into contact with during their careers who may not be happy about their last interaction.

So, cops are the only people who might run into dangerous and/or angry people?  Are you saying that a concealed handgun is a good way to protect yourself from someone intent on doing harm?



Settle down, sir. I have not offered my opinion on it. I'm giving you the probable defense for why they allow cops to continue to carry guns. Shiat, most of the active officers probably need their weapons taken away. Oh, and words matter. I never said cops were the ONLY people who may run into a bad person. But, lets not be disingenuous. The nature of their job makes it more likely that they will run into a bad person who they have had a negative effect on. That doesn't mean accountants and florists don't get robbed.
 
2014-01-15 12:10:38 PM  

Nuclear Monk: CrazyCracka420: Generation_D: It appears if you are a cop, or a wannabe cop, Florida is your paradise these days.

All you need is

1) A gun

2) An attitude

The shooting gallery is open, time to go hunting!

Note: fans of civilization that doesn't resemble Beirut in the 1980s, Somalia today or perhaps a very populated Old West, might want to just skip Florida entirely.

Let the inbreds and the senile battle it out.

Actually the "Wild West" had stricter gun control laws, and a lot less firearm deaths (at least that they documented, I suspect some people get killed and were buried in the desert without a trace...so the numbers may be skewed).  I read that the most firearm deaths in any year, was 4 in Tombstone, the year of the OK Corral gun fight.  Most frontier towns averaged 2 firearm deaths a year (again, this is something I read, so take with a grain of salt unless you want to do your own research).

To be fair, they had a lot less movies back then.



And almost zero texting!
 
2014-01-15 12:11:04 PM  
normally I would stand with the cop, assuming he would have the experience and good judgement to carry a weapon after years of experience.
Normally I wouldn't have a problem bringing a weapon into a movie theater after colorado
but THIS farking guy...
 
2014-01-15 12:11:18 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Onkel Buck: LeroyBourne: So this is the zimmerman2.0.  I can't wait for the circus trial.

Gonna be hard for the media to make this a racial witch hunt with two creepy as crackers being involved.


Gonna be even harder for you bigots to decide who to root for.


The white guy! Duh!
 
2014-01-15 12:11:58 PM  

FlashHarry: bottom line: if the cop hand't had a gun on him, the victim would likely be alive today.


Not true.He would've strangled his victim with Twizzlers.
 
2014-01-15 12:12:08 PM  

serial_crusher: Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.

The movie theater had a "no guns" policy, so I'm not sure what this has to do with people who carry legally.


The way it works in most permissible carry states is that the business can ask you to leave if they notice that you're carrying; otherwise their internal store policy is meaningless. Has no bearing on whether you're carrying legally.
 
2014-01-15 12:12:30 PM  
It's the victim's fault for not arming himself.  Or some other dumb bullshiat.
 
2014-01-15 12:12:42 PM  
Calm down. You can claim SYG or insanity or whatever defense your slimy lawyer can come up with. It does not mean you are getting off scott free. There is a judge or jury or both that have to agree you proved your case before that happens.
 
2014-01-15 12:12:51 PM  

FlashHarry: stand your ground, my ass.


i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-01-15 12:13:14 PM  

Dimensio: ikanreed: Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.

Can I participate in the dogpile on you too, or are you good?

The joke, as it is constructed, is not merely in that police officers (both active and retired) are often regarded by major firearm restriction advocates as being more "trustworthy" to carry firearms when in public, but also in that federal law explicitly allows both active and retired law enforcement to carry concealed firearms in every state (with limited exceptions) regardless of state laws regarding the carrying of concealed deadly weapons, thus making Florida's "shall-issue" concealed weapons permit statute irrelevant to the shooter's legal ability to carry a firearm.


And people say gun enthusiasts are pedantic . . .
 
2014-01-15 12:13:19 PM  

Begoggle: Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.

10/10
I like how you have as many "smart" votes as "funny" votes.


Yeah, that post was a thing of beauty, and got a lot of bites.
 
2014-01-15 12:13:52 PM  
I joked about this when the CO Batman shooting happened, about how we should have 'theater marshals.'  Now it doesn't sound like a bad idea.
 
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