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(The Daily Beast)   The lawyer for the ex-cop who shot and killed a man in a Florida movie theater may use the Stand Your Ground defense because the victim "threw an unknown object" at the defendant. That "object?" It was likely popcorn   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 1007
    More: Followup, Chad Oulson, florida, Case CRC1400216CFA, Busch Gardens  
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6567 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jan 2014 at 11:31 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-01-15 10:09:27 AM  
this murdering pig needs to spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. stand your ground, my ass.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 10:12:55 AM  
It will probably work.
 
2014-01-15 10:16:38 AM  
This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.
 
2014-01-15 10:17:57 AM  
It's entirely likely--with enough velocity--he could have put an eye out with that popcorn.  STAND YOUR GROUND.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 10:18:56 AM  
Dimensio

As a retired cop, the shooter probably had the protection of a new federal law that prohibits states from taking guns away from ex-cops.  (Wikipedia article, which I have not fact checked.)
 
2014-01-15 10:18:58 AM  

Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.


The movie theater had a "no guns" policy, so I'm not sure what this has to do with people who carry legally.
 
2014-01-15 10:19:14 AM  

Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.


The shooter is a retired police captain.
 
2014-01-15 10:20:39 AM  

Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.


I'd buy you a frosty beverage for that effort.
 
2014-01-15 10:20:52 AM  

Nabb1: Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.

The shooter is a retired police captain.


[thats_the_joke.png]
 
2014-01-15 10:20:52 AM  

Nabb1: The shooter is a retired police captain.


i wonder what they'll do to him in prison.
 
2014-01-15 10:21:15 AM  

Dimensio: Nabb1: Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.

The shooter is a retired police captain.

[thats_the_joke.png]


I need coffee. Goddammit.
 
2014-01-15 10:23:43 AM  
Responsible Gun OwnershipTM
 
2014-01-15 10:23:54 AM  
I was amenable to the SYG defense until I saw the photo of the victim in TFA.  That's just a normal family, not at all what I'd expect somebody dangerous to look like.
 
2014-01-15 10:24:04 AM  
Is it too soon to talk about popcorn control?
 
2014-01-15 10:24:08 AM  
Don't laugh.  I remember the Great Popcorn Wars like they were yesterday.  I still have flashbacks when I hear those "POP POP POP" sounds.  The Battle of Canola Valley was particularly tragic.
 
2014-01-15 10:26:25 AM  

FlashHarry: this murdering pig needs to spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. stand your ground, my ass.


My only regret is that he's old enough that "the rest of his life" won't be that long.
 
2014-01-15 10:27:03 AM  

shanrick: Is it too soon to talk about popcorn control?


Yes, let's talk reasonable butter limits.
 
2014-01-15 10:27:29 AM  

Trivia Jockey: FlashHarry: this murdering pig needs to spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. stand your ground, my ass.

My only regret is that he's old enough that "the rest of his life" won't be that long.


I hope every day his food is thrown into his cell in a dangerous manner.
 
2014-01-15 10:28:05 AM  

North_Central_Positronics: It's entirely likely--with enough velocity--he could have put an eye out with that popcorn.  STAND YOUR GROUND KERNEL.

 
2014-01-15 10:28:24 AM  

serial_crusher: I was amenable to the SYG defense until I saw the photo of the victim in TFA.  That's just a normal family, not at all what I'd expect somebody dangerous to look like.


you mean the victim didn't look like a black kid in a hoodie?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 10:29:14 AM  

Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.


The "stand your ground" needs to be repealed.  The problem is that all he has to do is claim that he was afraid and he is good.  It doesn't matter if he actually had a reason to be afraid, it just matters that he was.

Also, I think that there ought to be a maximum age for carrying a firearm.  Too many old people get angry and frustrated when their mind starts going.  This guy managed to get through his career without snapping, so it's likely that this was some sort of age related mental deterioration.
 
2014-01-15 10:32:55 AM  
My take on this... the retired cop was in his 70s but he still wants to be a tough guy and start shiat with people in the street. But a younger guy can really hurt him, so he need his gun. So you see, without a gun he wouldn't feel comfortable acting like a tough and picking fights in public. And isn't protecting his right to do that worth a few lives here or there?
 
2014-01-15 10:33:25 AM  

vpb: Dimensio: This incident is just another example of why "shall issue" concealed weapons permit statutes need to be repealed. The only people who should be allowed to legally carry firearms in public are law enforcement, active and retired.

The "stand your ground" needs to be repealed.  The problem is that all he has to do is claim that he was afraid and he is good.  It doesn't matter if he actually had a reason to be afraid, it just matters that he was.


Self-defense statutes in Florida (and in fact in most states) require a fear of imminent great bodily harm or death to be "reasonable". A fear of injury that is not "reasonable" will not justify the use of deadly force.


Also, I think that there ought to be a maximum age for carrying a firearm. Too many old people get angry and frustrated when their mind starts going. This guy managed to get through his career without snapping, so it's likely that this was some sort of age related mental deterioration.

As a police officer, any previous outbursts of anger were likely overlooked or considered justified.
 
2014-01-15 10:34:24 AM  
bottom line: if the cop hand't had a gun on him, the victim would likely be alive today.
 
2014-01-15 10:36:22 AM  

vpb: The problem is that all he has to do is claim that he was afraid and he is good. It doesn't matter if he actually had a reason to be afraid, it just matters that he was.


That's not true.  Although I hate SYG, it doesn't just require a subjective feeling of fear.  It requires a showing of reasonableness.

"Here's the thing," said Bob Dekle, legal skills professor at Levin. "It's not whether or not you're in fear. If the standard about shooting were fear that would give cowards carte blanche. The question is was there reasonable fear, was the fear reasonable?"
 
2014-01-15 10:38:44 AM  
I bet this guy had a stress-induced flashback, 'Nam style. Had to get the perp.
 
2014-01-15 10:39:03 AM  
I blame John Cleese for not teaching us how to properly defend against popcorn.
 
2014-01-15 10:40:19 AM  

Trivia Jockey: shanrick: Is it too soon to talk about popcorn control?

Yes, let's talk reasonable butter limits.


That shiat they put on movie popcorn is not butter. It's like an industrial lubricant made out of the most powerful cholesterol known to man.
 
2014-01-15 10:40:52 AM  

grokca: I blame John Cleese for not teaching us how to properly defend against popcorn.


Yeah, you try that with a pineapple down your windpipe.
 
2014-01-15 10:41:53 AM  

Trivia Jockey: The Battle of Canola Valley was particularly tragic.


General Reddenbocker's troops were exhausted, but determined.
 
2014-01-15 10:42:48 AM  
He had no choice.

The retired cop was only a captain, he was forced into shooting by a Colonel.

/It doesn't translate as well in print.
 
2014-01-15 10:44:45 AM  

rotsky: Trivia Jockey: The Battle of Canola Valley was particularly tragic.

General Reddenbocker's troops were exhausted, but determined.


It was a damned pressure cooker down in there, I'm telling you.
 
2014-01-15 10:44:51 AM  

FlashHarry: grokca: I blame John Cleese for not teaching us how to properly defend against popcorn.

Yeah, you try that with a pineapple down your windpipe.


What movie were they watching?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 10:52:43 AM  
Dimensio:

As a police officer, any previous outbursts of anger were likely overlooked or considered justified.

There may have been some, but he couldn't have been going around killing people over trivial things
 
2014-01-15 10:53:49 AM  
It appears if you are a cop, or a wannabe cop, Florida is your paradise these days.

All you need is

1) A gun

2) An attitude

The shooting gallery is open, time to go hunting!

Note: fans of civilization that doesn't resemble Beirut in the 1980s, Somalia today or perhaps a very populated Old West, might want to just skip Florida entirely.

Let the inbreds and the senile battle it out.
 
2014-01-15 10:54:34 AM  

FlashHarry: Nabb1: The shooter is a retired police captain.

i wonder what they'll do to him in prison.


Throw popcorn at him
 
2014-01-15 10:55:06 AM  

Trivia Jockey: vpb: The problem is that all he has to do is claim that he was afraid and he is good. It doesn't matter if he actually had a reason to be afraid, it just matters that he was.

That's not true.  Although I hate SYG, it doesn't just require a subjective feeling of fear.  It requires a showing of reasonableness.

"Here's the thing," said Bob Dekle, legal skills professor at Levin. "It's not whether or not you're in fear. If the standard about shooting were fear that would give cowards carte blanche. The question is was there reasonable fear, was the fear reasonable?"


Yeah, but that's the logic Invader Zimm used when the Scary Black Kid was Walking and Talking on the Cell Phone in a threatening manner, wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.
 
2014-01-15 10:55:45 AM  

Trivia Jockey: vpb: The problem is that all he has to do is claim that he was afraid and he is good. It doesn't matter if he actually had a reason to be afraid, it just matters that he was.

That's not true.  Although I hate SYG, it doesn't just require a subjective feeling of fear.  It requires a showing of reasonableness.

"Here's the thing," said Bob Dekle, legal skills professor at Levin. "It's not whether or not you're in fear. If the standard about shooting were fear that would give cowards carte blanche. The question is was there reasonable fear, was the fear reasonable?"


Like that matters to vpb....
 
2014-01-15 10:57:37 AM  
Get your liquor cabinets stocked, this is going to require a lot of drinks.
 
2014-01-15 10:58:01 AM  
Maybe he thought the guy behind him was a Killer Klown from Outer Space. Have you seen what that popcorn will do to you? The defense rests, your honor.
 
2014-01-15 10:58:18 AM  

Generation_D: Yeah, but that's the logic Invader Zimm used when the Scary Black Kid was Walking and Talking on the Cell Phone in a threatening manner, wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.


And SYG wasn't used at his trial.  QED.
 
2014-01-15 10:59:37 AM  

vpb: Dimensio:

As a police officer, any previous outbursts of anger were likely overlooked or considered justified.

There may have been some, but he couldn't have been going around killing people over trivial things


I must concede your point, as he was not a police officer in California.
 
2014-01-15 11:01:07 AM  

Generation_D: Trivia Jockey: vpb: The problem is that all he has to do is claim that he was afraid and he is good. It doesn't matter if he actually had a reason to be afraid, it just matters that he was.

That's not true.  Although I hate SYG, it doesn't just require a subjective feeling of fear.  It requires a showing of reasonableness.

"Here's the thing," said Bob Dekle, legal skills professor at Levin. "It's not whether or not you're in fear. If the standard about shooting were fear that would give cowards carte blanche. The question is was there reasonable fear, was the fear reasonable?"

Yeah, but that's the logic Invader Zimm used when the Scary Black Kid was Walking and Talking on the Cell Phone in a threatening manner, wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.


You are correct. That Mr. Zimmerman also reported being pinned to the ground and repeatedly punched in the face by Mr. Martin was in no way a part of his legal defense.
 
2014-01-15 11:01:35 AM  

Generation_D: Yeah, but that's the logic Invader Zimm used when the Scary Black Kid was Walking and Talking on the Cell Phone in a threatening manner, wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.


That worked because (a) Zimm was injured by Trayvon Martin and (b) the other witness in that case was a corpse.

In this case you have the injured wife, the cop's wife, the off-duty sheriff that disarmed the shooter, the nurses that tried to save the victim's life, et cetera.  The lawyer is using "Stand Your Ground" because it is all he's got to defend his crazy client that shoots people in movie theaters.
 
2014-01-15 11:02:47 AM  

Trivia Jockey: And SYG wasn't used at his trial. QED.


Oh, that is correct as well.
 
2014-01-15 11:05:54 AM  

factoryconnection: Generation_D: Yeah, but that's the logic Invader Zimm used when the Scary Black Kid was Walking and Talking on the Cell Phone in a threatening manner, wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.

That worked because (a) Zimm was injured by Trayvon Martin and (b) the other witness in that case was a corpse.

In this case you have the injured wife, the cop's wife, the off-duty sheriff that disarmed the shooter, the nurses that tried to save the victim's life, et cetera.  The lawyer is using "Stand Your Ground" because it is all he's got to defend his crazy client that shoots people in movie theaters.



Also victim is a clean-cut white guy. That really doesn't help the defense's case. Maybe if he had some tattoos or a long hair they'd have a case.
 
2014-01-15 11:07:15 AM  
I'll say this: if this defense works It'll make going to see Rocky Horror Show a very different experience.
 
2014-01-15 11:11:15 AM  
...drink!  *hic*  *thud*
 
2014-01-15 11:11:57 AM  

Trivia Jockey: Don't laugh.  I remember the Great Popcorn Wars like they were yesterday.  I still have flashbacks when I hear those "POP POP POP" sounds.  The Battle of Canola Valley was particularly tragic.


POP POP in the attic theatre?  The mere fact that you call it "POP POP" tells me you're not ready.
 
2014-01-15 11:14:05 AM  
You toss popcorn at a cop you will get a beatdown, tased, and charged with terroristic threats, and hurling a missile like device.
 
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