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(Mother Jones)   It turns out Henry Kissinger was more evil than we thought; he's the one that gave the "green light" for Argentina's dirty war that resulted in the deaths of an estimated 30,000 people   (motherjones.com) divider line 114
    More: Interesting, Henry Kissinger, National Security Archive, human rights laws, Patt Derian, East Timor  
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1066 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jan 2014 at 10:20 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



114 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-01-15 08:30:08 AM
Don't die for me, Argentinaaaaaa
 
2014-01-15 08:36:23 AM
If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.
 
2014-01-15 08:37:53 AM
He used his Magic Murderbag.
 
2014-01-15 08:55:41 AM
Actually, this is just getting out of misdemeanor level on the scale of evil I associate with Henry Kissinger.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-01-15 08:56:42 AM
Apparently he is, and I thought he was pretty evil before.
 
2014-01-15 09:07:46 AM

Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.


You mean because each of them is the other person's food, right? We shouldn't waste gruel on these two assholes.
 
2014-01-15 09:10:24 AM
Speak for yourself, Subby. It turns out that Kissinger is exactly as evil as I'd always thought.

/And don't even get me started on his responsibility for Tom Lehrer's retirement.
 
2014-01-15 09:12:55 AM
I think we already knew that.
 
2014-01-15 09:22:12 AM
Kissinger & Fark Admins...greenlighters of death.

/"Greenlighters of Death" would make a cool band name etc. etc.
 
2014-01-15 09:46:02 AM

czetie: his responsibility for Tom Lehrer's retirement.


Wat?
 
2014-01-15 09:56:50 AM
Along with the use of torture as a means of societal control.
 
2014-01-15 10:08:26 AM
He's got nicer legs than Hitler, and bigger tits than Cher
Henry Kissinger, how we're missing you, and wishing you were here...
 
2014-01-15 10:25:47 AM
Meh, it's not like they killed a brazzilion.
 
2014-01-15 10:26:50 AM

czetie: Speak for yourself, Subby. It turns out that Kissinger is exactly as evil as I'd always thought.


Yeah, this is absolutely no surprise to anyone.
 
2014-01-15 10:27:06 AM
Can we just accept that republican foreign policy is "People who aren't Americans deserve to die, and a few American soldier deaths are worth it to cause those deaths"?
And can we accept that democratic foreign policy is "We don't care, let's keep doing whatever we're doing"?
 
2014-01-15 10:32:42 AM
Is this even news, or just news to people under 40?
 
2014-01-15 10:33:34 AM
Dump him in Laos and leave him behind.

/dickhead
 
2014-01-15 10:36:11 AM

Mr_Fabulous: Yeah, this is absolutely no surprise to anyone.


Except those who haven't been paying attention up until now.
 
2014-01-15 10:36:20 AM
I wonder if the GOP of Kissinger's time had the same "HEY, HE JUST LOVED THE COUNTRY AND TRIED TO KEEP US SAFE, JUST MOVE ON ALREADY!" crowd of apologists that the Dubya cabal had.

It's as if failing to punish somebody for their crimes encourages other people to follow precedent or something.
 
2014-01-15 10:40:36 AM

Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.


This.
 
2014-01-15 10:40:49 AM

Sybarite: He used his Magic Murderbag.


fc01.deviantart.net
 
2014-01-15 10:42:27 AM
"[Nixon] doesn't want to hear anything," says Dr Kissinger, stressing the need for secrecy. "It's an order, it's to be done. Anything that flies on everything that moves. You got that?"

/Genocide for dummies
 
2014-01-15 10:43:28 AM
Yet he is admired for his sickest crime of banging Jill St John.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2014-01-15 10:45:03 AM
Been in cryogenic storage since 1967, subby?
 
2014-01-15 10:48:01 AM

neversubmit: Yet he is admired for his sickest crime of banging Jill St John.

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 270x187]


or his nude centerfold work

leadpipeposters.com
 
2014-01-15 10:50:02 AM
For our next act, Ollie North is in fact a traitorous sonofabiatch who should've been hanged.

At 11, Nixon had goons and was pretty farking terrible.
 
2014-01-15 10:50:51 AM
Hello, 'Shock Doctrine?'
 
2014-01-15 10:52:57 AM
The Argentines were very worried that Kissinger would lecture to them on human rights. Guzzetti and Kissinger had a very long breakfast but the Secretary did not raise the subject. Finally Guzzetti did. Kissinger asked how long will it take you (the Argentines) to clean up the problem. Guzzetti replied that it would be done by the end of the year. Kissinger approved.

That right there is where your story falls apart
 
2014-01-15 10:55:07 AM

vudukungfu: czetie: his responsibility for Tom Lehrer's retirement.

Wat?


http://www.avclub.com/article/tom-lehrer-13660
 
2014-01-15 10:55:31 AM

Saiga410: The Argentines were very worried that Kissinger would lecture to them on human rights. Guzzetti and Kissinger had a very long breakfast but the Secretary did not raise the subject. Finally Guzzetti did. Kissinger asked how long will it take you (the Argentines) to clean up the problem. Guzzetti replied that it would be done by the end of the year. Kissinger approved.

That right there is where your story falls apart


Are you saying that Kissinger had no involvement with the Chicago Boys?
 
2014-01-15 10:55:32 AM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: For our next act, Ollie North is in fact a traitorous sonofabiatch who should've been hanged.

At 11, Nixon had goons and was pretty farking terrible.


He started that young? Most presidents don't hit their stride until puberty.
 
2014-01-15 10:56:24 AM
Kissinger is an awful man who should meet the worst punishment we have to offer. He, like Cheney, should be tried in The Hague.
 
2014-01-15 10:56:59 AM

BMulligan: Obama's Reptiloid Master: For our next act, Ollie North is in fact a traitorous sonofabiatch who should've been hanged.

At 11, Nixon had goons and was pretty farking terrible.

He started that young? Most presidents don't hit their stride until puberty.


1. Ok, fine, 11:00 pm, you pedant.

2. Don't underestimate Child Nixon and the Milkcartongate scandal. Lil G. Gordon Liddy busted two kneecaps that day.
 
2014-01-15 10:57:21 AM
That's Nobel Peace Prize Winner Henry Kissinger, subby.

/amused when people talk about how Obama's NPP lowered the status of the award
 
2014-01-15 10:58:08 AM
iceberg

/ top of the tip of it
 
2014-01-15 10:58:44 AM
Give me a moment yo muster up my shocked face.
 
2014-01-15 10:59:05 AM

Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.


I hate it that Bush gets an easy pass as if it was all Cheney forcing a little kid to do all those bad things. Make it a 3-way between Bush, Cheney and Kissinger and you are up to something.
 
2014-01-15 10:59:33 AM
 
2014-01-15 11:04:49 AM
Wasn't it Hitchens who said about Kissinger: "If we gave him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox"?

I miss Hitch.

Kissinger was a disgusting, vile cockroach.
 
2014-01-15 11:05:03 AM
www.tylershores.com

The square root of the sum of the squares of two sides of an isosceles triangle is equal to the length of the third side....
 
2014-01-15 11:06:14 AM

what_now: That's Nobel Peace Prize Winner Henry Kissinger, subby.

/amused when people talk about how Obama's NPP lowered the status of the award

 
2014-01-15 11:07:35 AM

mayIFark: Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.

I hate it that Bush gets an easy pass as if it was all Cheney forcing a little kid to do all those bad things. Make it a 3-way between Bush, Cheney and Kissinger and you are up to something.


We've gotta limit theses sorts of things to the topical and our own personal villains. If we're attempting a complete list we'll be here all day chanting the names of the damned. And that's a little creepy.
 
2014-01-15 11:08:31 AM
Hitchens really had his number all along.
 
2014-01-15 11:09:23 AM

what_now: That's Nobel Peace Prize Winner Henry Kissinger, subby.

/amused when people talk about how Obama's NPP lowered the status of the award


To them, at least Kissinger isn't a "socialist."
 
2014-01-15 11:10:17 AM

Testiclaw: Wasn't it Hitchens who said about Kissinger: "If we gave him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox"?

I thought that was about Jerry Falwell. It's a good enough a line, you can say it at most people's funerals.
 
2014-01-15 11:11:57 AM

TheShavingofOccam123: neversubmit: Yet he is admired for his sickest crime of banging Jill St John.

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 270x187]

or his nude centerfold work

[leadpipeposters.com image 400x218]


Why is he still allowed to live!?!

/barf
 
2014-01-15 11:15:11 AM
Anyone else think we need an Evil tag? I was thinking something like the Fail tag, but instead of white text it has flame pattern text.
 
2014-01-15 11:16:22 AM

EyeballKid: Testiclaw: Wasn't it Hitchens who said about Kissinger: "If we gave him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox"?
I thought that was about Jerry Falwell. It's a good enough a line, you can say it at most people's funerals.


It might of been, I think he was talking about his Kissinger book in an interview but mentioned if a previous interview about somebody was longer he would have added the matchbox quip.

You're probably correct.
 
2014-01-15 11:17:32 AM

dr_blasto: Kissinger is an awful man who should meet the worst punishment we have to offer. He, like Cheney, should be tried in The Hague.


That's the worst punishment we have to offer?

There is video of American soldiers waterboarding prisoners that's been in the public domain for forty years. There's somebody in an American prison being tortured right now.

I am not convinced that grisly, public torture and execution has outlived its usefulness as a deterrent.

I'm aware of the human rights paradox that creates.

So is Henry Kissinger.

I'm deeply confused and troubled by it.

He likes it.
 
2014-01-15 11:21:46 AM

Testiclaw: Wasn't it Hitchens who said about Kissinger: "If we gave him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox"?

I miss Hitch.

Kissinger was a disgusting, vile cockroach.


That was the old Hitchens.  He died an unrepentant cheerleader for war criminals.
 
2014-01-15 11:22:15 AM

Ned Stark: mayIFark: Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.

I hate it that Bush gets an easy pass as if it was all Cheney forcing a little kid to do all those bad things. Make it a 3-way between Bush, Cheney and Kissinger and you are up to something.

We've gotta limit theses sorts of things to the topical and our own personal villains. If we're attempting a complete list we'll be here all day chanting the names of the damned. And that's a little creepy.


Lol wut?

Just complete the list of top 10 worst human beings to ever walk on the face of the earth, and we'll be done (and those 3 will be there).
 
2014-01-15 11:22:18 AM
For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.
 
2014-01-15 11:27:46 AM

neversubmit: TheShavingofOccam123: neversubmit: Yet he is admired for his sickest crime of banging Jill St John.

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 270x187]

or his nude centerfold work

[leadpipeposters.com image 400x218]

Why is he still allowed to live!?!

/barf


Hell refuses him on grounds that he will stage a coup.

This is also why Cheney lives.
 
2014-01-15 11:29:33 AM

Karma Curmudgeon: Testiclaw: Wasn't it Hitchens who said about Kissinger: "If we gave him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox"?

I miss Hitch.

Kissinger was a disgusting, vile cockroach.

That was the old Hitchens.  He died an unrepentant cheerleader for war criminals.


I agreed with him on his religious critiques, he was fun to watch in debates, but could never agree to his position on Iraq, especially since he still maintained his unwavering support after we knew there were no WMD's.

Even though most of us "knew" this before we even started.
 
2014-01-15 11:30:06 AM

trotsky: For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.


I'm not sure how I feel about a user named "trotsky" advocating a realpolitik approach to things.
 
2014-01-15 11:30:10 AM

trotsky: For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.


He applied realpolitik without any consideration for morality.
 
2014-01-15 11:31:28 AM

trotsky: For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.


This butcher has credentials!
 
2014-01-15 11:31:28 AM
Probably because they couldn't understand what he was saying.
 
2014-01-15 11:33:11 AM

what_now: That's Nobel Peace Prize Winner Henry Kissinger, subby.

/amused when people talk about how Obama's NPP lowered the status of the award


i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2014-01-15 11:34:24 AM

mayIFark: Ned Stark: mayIFark: Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.

I hate it that Bush gets an easy pass as if it was all Cheney forcing a little kid to do all those bad things. Make it a 3-way between Bush, Cheney and Kissinger and you are up to something.

We've gotta limit theses sorts of things to the topical and our own personal villains. If we're attempting a complete list we'll be here all day chanting the names of the damned. And that's a little creepy.

Lol wut?

Just complete the list of top 10 worst human beings to ever walk on the face of the earth, and we'll be done (and those 3 will be there).


Nearly 1/3rd of the top ten evil people of all time are Americans alive at the same time as you?

Staggering coincidence, that.
 
2014-01-15 11:36:44 AM
Obvious tag dump into ocean from airplane?
 
2014-01-15 11:43:46 AM
Henry Kissinger is such a selfish bastid.  I mean, Augusto Pinochet is right now in the Seventh Circle of Hell standing in a pool of boiling blood that is up to his chin, being shot by centaurs with arrows everytime he tries to go to the shallow end of the blood pool.

Kissinger needs to go and join Augusto and help him block some of those arrows.
 
2014-01-15 11:48:43 AM
"Let's kiss Kissinger where he lives!"
 
2014-01-15 11:55:50 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: what_now: That's Nobel Peace Prize Winner Henry Kissinger, subby.

/amused when people talk about how Obama's NPP lowered the status of the award

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 310x399]


that too.
 
2014-01-15 12:06:31 PM
I'm sure this old news is exciting for the first time anyone's read it, but yeah.

Kissinger should be behind bars as a war criminal.
 
2014-01-15 12:07:30 PM

trotsky: For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.


Bullshiat.
 
2014-01-15 12:09:34 PM
It was Kissinger who famously pronounced that power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. I will not sit here quietly while you farkers slander a great American just because he tried to help his buddies in Argentina get laid.

/And his buddies in Chile, and in Laos, and in Guatemala, and...
 
2014-01-15 12:18:27 PM
This is just about how evil I always thought he was.
 
2014-01-15 12:20:15 PM

whidbey: trotsky: For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.

Bullshiat.


Remember, "realism" in this context just means "perpetuating the current highly artificial state of affairs because it benefits certain western powers and, more importantly, their pocketbooks".
 
2014-01-15 12:22:04 PM
Oh, and yes, Kissinger is filth and should be executed, brought back to life, and executed again once for each of the millions of people he is directly responsible for killing.
 
2014-01-15 12:22:55 PM

whidbey: trotsky: For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.

Bullshiat.


Realism sometimes meaning recognizing that your side is the one with a death star, and a guy who wears all black named "darth vader".  Acting like an evil empire when you're an evil empire is practical.
 
2014-01-15 12:30:03 PM

czetie: Speak for yourself, Subby. It turns out that Kissinger is exactly as evil as I'd always thought.

/And don't even get me started on his responsibility for Tom Lehrer's retirement.


WHAT?>  burn  him at the stake.
 
2014-01-15 12:36:27 PM

trotsky: Everything he did was realism in practice.


This here is the bogus keystone holding up the Kissinger myth.
 
2014-01-15 12:37:56 PM

ikanreed: whidbey: trotsky: For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.

Bullshiat.

Realism sometimes meaning recognizing that your side is the one with a death star, and a guy who wears all black named "darth vader".  Acting like an evil empire when you're an evil empire is practical.


Yeah I suppose "realism in practice"="might makes right."

A forced reality, perhaps. Seems to me "realism in practice" would be making a better world through more altruistic means, but hey.
 
2014-01-15 12:45:44 PM
static1.wikia.nocookie.net

/Likes his style
 
2014-01-15 12:53:14 PM
"President Kissinger and his front man, Richard Nixon..." -- hazy memory from Let Freedom Ring, a John Birch Society phone line with a weekly prerecorded message in the early 70s.
 
2014-01-15 12:59:01 PM

Ned Stark: mayIFark: Ned Stark: mayIFark: Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.

I hate it that Bush gets an easy pass as if it was all Cheney forcing a little kid to do all those bad things. Make it a 3-way between Bush, Cheney and Kissinger and you are up to something.

We've gotta limit theses sorts of things to the topical and our own personal villains. If we're attempting a complete list we'll be here all day chanting the names of the damned. And that's a little creepy.

Lol wut?

Just complete the list of top 10 worst human beings to ever walk on the face of the earth, and we'll be done (and those 3 will be there).

Nearly 1/3rd of the top ten evil people of all time are Americans alive at the same time as you?

Staggering coincidence, that.


Rather, speaks volume about the republican party.
 
2014-01-15 12:59:09 PM
This was pretty well known in most political science spaces. This was taught as a known fact when I was in school in the '90s. Placing it in context with all of the other things we did in Central and South America in the 20th century, this was seen by many as a way to place a limited timeline boundary on what was already believed to be taking place. We find amazing ways to justify messing in other countries politics.
 
2014-01-15 01:07:06 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: or his nude centerfold work


Or his whole, you know, winning of the Nobel Peace Prize thing

stamp-search.com
 
2014-01-15 01:09:44 PM

pkellmey: We find amazing ways to justify messing in other countries politics


I know! How dare we try to bring democracy to Nicaragua! What next, we try to get arab nations to allow womenfolk to vote?
 
2014-01-15 01:10:26 PM
How much money would I have to pay to get to see Kissinger and St. Peter having it out at the Pearly Gates?
 
2014-01-15 01:18:22 PM

SevenizGud: pkellmey: We find amazing ways to justify messing in other countries politics

I know! How dare we try to bring democracy to Nicaragua! What next, we try to get arab nations to allow womenfolk to vote?


We tried to bring democracy to Nicaragua by making a client of the vicious dictator whose family had been in control of the country (with American assistance) since 1927.
 
2014-01-15 01:18:27 PM

Gosling: How much money would I have to pay to get to see Kissinger and St. Peter having it out at the Pearly Gates?


Give all your money to the poor on your deathbed 50 years from now. That'll probably excuse you for cutting in line and wading through the enormous backlog to where Peter will still be reading out the list of Kissinger's transgressions.
 
2014-01-15 01:34:48 PM

SevenizGud: pkellmey: We find amazing ways to justify messing in other countries politics

I know! How dare we try to bring democracy to Nicaragua! What next, we try to get arab nations to allow womenfolk to vote?


I love how you view death-squads as a democratizing force.
 
2014-01-15 01:40:50 PM
whidbey
Kissinger should be behind bars as a war criminal.

Here we see President Obama executing a citizen's arrest, maybe

whatwouldspideydo.files.wordpress.com

Or just having a friendly chat, whatever
 
2014-01-15 01:49:46 PM

Mr_Fabulous: czetie: Speak for yourself, Subby. It turns out that Kissinger is exactly as evil as I'd always thought.

Yeah, this is absolutely no surprise to anyone.


That. He should have been disappeared many years ago.
 
2014-01-15 02:00:38 PM

RanDomino: Here we see President Obama executing a citizen's arrest, maybe


That would be a bit hypocritical of him.
 
2014-01-15 02:23:04 PM
I am Dwight Yeast's complete and utter lack of surprise.
 
2014-01-15 02:28:32 PM
FTA:  "...the Carter administration reversed policy and made human rights a priority in its relations with Argentina and other nations."

If that's what the Carter administration did--I for one recall no such reversal of policy regarding Argentina--it didn't help the Argentinian leftists who were being rounded up and murdered by the Videla government.  Most of the deaths in the Dirty War happened during 1977-81.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War

Kissinger is pretty damned reprehensible, no doubt in my mind about that.  But I was alive during 1977-81, and my recollection is that Carter and his foreign policy people were content to sit on their hands while Videla and his muchachos did their dirty work.  It is ironic indeed that the Dirty War ended because Margaret Thatcher, a friend an ally of Ronald Reagan's, challenged and defeated Argentina's military government over its invasion of the Falklands, and this with the support not only of Reagan but of Augusto Pinochet.
 
2014-01-15 02:38:29 PM

tirob: FTA:  "...the Carter administration reversed policy and made human rights a priority in its relations with Argentina and other nations."

If that's what the Carter administration did--I for one recall no such reversal of policy regarding Argentina--it didn't help the Argentinian leftists who were being rounded up and murdered by the Videla government.  Most of the deaths in the Dirty War happened during 1977-81.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War

Kissinger is pretty damned reprehensible, no doubt in my mind about that.  But I was alive during 1977-81, and my recollection is that Carter and his foreign policy people were content to sit on their hands while Videla and his muchachos did their dirty work.  It is ironic indeed that the Dirty War ended because Margaret Thatcher, a friend an ally of Ronald Reagan's, challenged and defeated Argentina's military government over its invasion of the Falklands, and this with the support not only of Reagan but of Augusto Pinochet.


Carter's efforts to reshape American foreign policy to emphasize the primacy of human rights were announced with great fanfare and just as great derision. He made a genuine effort to change this nation's approach to foreign policy but was hamstrung at every turn by political opponents, foreign allies, even members of his own administration and foreign service corps, all of whom considered his approach naive and, frankly, unprofitable.

I just ran into a blurb by a book from Cornell University Press that sounds like something you may be interested in - it's called  The Fate of Freedom Elsewhere: Human Rights and U.S. Cold War Policy toward Argentina. From the blurb: "Entering the Oval Office at the height of the kidnapping, torture, and murder of tens of thousands of Argentines by the military government, Carter set out to dramatically shift U.S. policy from subtle support to public condemnation of human rights violation. But could the administration elicit human rights improvements in the face of a zealous military dictatorship, rising Cold War tension, and domestic political opposition? By grappling with the disparate actors engaged in the struggle over human rights, including civil rights activists, second-wave feminists, chicano/a activists, religious progressives, members of the New Right, conservative cold warriors, and business leaders, [author William M.] Schmidli utilizes unique interviews with U.S. and Argentine actors as well as newly declassified archives to offer a telling analysis of the rise, efficacy, and limits of human rights in shaping U.S. foreign policy in the Cold War."
 
2014-01-15 02:49:05 PM
Some of us have been keeping an eye on Kissinger for a long time. This isn't really news, and if all you know about Kissinger is what you read in TFA, he's still WAY more evil than you think.
 
2014-01-15 03:04:05 PM

ikanreed: Can we just accept that republican foreign policy is "People who aren't Americans deserve to die, and a few American soldier deaths are worth it to cause those deaths"?
And can we accept that democratic foreign policy is "We don't care, let's keep doing whatever we're doing"

the exact same as the Republican?

FTFY

/google Zbigniew Brzezinski
 
2014-01-15 03:05:38 PM

trotsky: For as liberal as I am sometimes, I actually like Kissinger. Unlike Cheney, who is a sack of shiat, Kissinger saw the world through the eyes of a learned PhD policy maker, somebody who applied his research to policy. Everything he did was realism in practice.


The same could be said of Himmler.
 
2014-01-15 03:13:20 PM

tirob: FTA:  "...the Carter administration reversed policy and made human rights a priority in its relations with Argentina and other nations."

If that's what the Carter administration did--I for one recall no such reversal of policy regarding Argentina--it didn't help the Argentinian leftists who were being rounded up and murdered by the Videla government.  Most of the deaths in the Dirty War happened during 1977-81.


Don't forget about Carter creating Al Qaeda.
 
2014-01-15 03:19:06 PM

SevenizGud: TheShavingofOccam123: or his nude centerfold work

Or his whole, you know, winning of the Nobel Peace Prize thing

[stamp-search.com image 359x262]


Dude, show us a chart about that! We will be convinced!
 
2014-01-15 03:20:27 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: vudukungfu: czetie: his responsibility for Tom Lehrer's retirement.

Wat?

http://www.avclub.com/article/tom-lehrer-13660


Even though he disclaims it in that interview, I personally heard him say this very thing in an interview on NPR, and friends have confirmed that they heard the same interview. (If I recall correctly, the interview was in follow-up to NPR getting complaints after playing Lehrer's Vatican Rag as a humorous outro to some story.)
 
2014-01-15 03:23:01 PM
BMulligan: Entering the Oval Office at the height of the kidnapping, torture, and murder of tens of thousands of Argentines by the military government, Carter set out to dramatically shift U.S. policy from subtle support to public condemnation of human rights violation. But could the administration elicit human rights improvements in the face of a zealous military dictatorship, rising Cold War tension, and domestic political opposition? By grappling with the disparate actors engaged in the struggle over human rights, including civil rights activists, second-wave feminists, chicano/a activists, religious progressives, members of the New Right, conservative cold warriors, and business leaders, [author William M.] Schmidli utilizes unique interviews with U.S. and Argentine actors as well as newly declassified archives to offer a telling analysis of the rise, efficacy, and limits of human rights in shaping U.S. foreign policy in the Cold War."

Carter became President while the Dirty War was just getting started; the worst of the repression and murders happened in 1977 and 1978.  I don't know whether the drop after 1978 in number of people who were "disappeared" was a result of outside pressure on the Videla government or whether it was because that government had already eliminated the toughest of its leftist opponents.  I suspect that the latter is more the case than the former.

The book sounds interesting.  Thanks for the heads up.  I still consider Argentina to be Mr. Carter's most serious foreign policy failure.  If it be true that Kissinger and Gerald Ford gave a "green light" to the junta, then Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski never tried to turn it back to red or even yellow.

For you Spanish readers out there, a link to a list with some stories about some of the people who were kidnapped and murdered by the Argentinian governments of the late '70s and early '80s:

http://desaparecidos.org/arg/victimas/nombres.html
 
2014-01-15 03:28:51 PM

DrPainMD: tirob: FTA:  "...the Carter administration reversed policy and made human rights a priority in its relations with Argentina and other nations."

If that's what the Carter administration did--I for one recall no such reversal of policy regarding Argentina--it didn't help the Argentinian leftists who were being rounded up and murdered by the Videla government.  Most of the deaths in the Dirty War happened during 1977-81.

Don't forget about Carter creating Al Qaeda.


Don't get me started on Zbigniew Brzezinski.
 
2014-01-15 03:31:56 PM
Was evil? He still is! And the only reason why the creepy old ghoul hasn't keeled over yet is because Satan fears he'll be replaced the moment Henry arrives ass-first into Hell.
 
2014-01-15 03:38:14 PM

DrPainMD: ikanreed: Can we just accept that republican foreign policy is "People who aren't Americans deserve to die, and a few American soldier deaths are worth it to cause those deaths"?
And can we accept that democratic foreign policy is "We don't care, let's keep doing whatever we're doing" the exact same as the Republican?

FTFY

/google Zbigniew Brzezinski


Yeah, BSABSVR, I know I know.  It's not like both recent republican presidential candidates were like "let's pointlessly invade another middle eastern country for the same dumb reasons as the last one(under a republican candidate)" and the democratic president was just like "Let's keep this one war we have, that's unnecessary, going"

Yep, both parties are identical, so vote for republicans.
 
2014-01-15 03:53:07 PM

ikanreed: Yeah, BSABSVR, I know I know.  It's not like both recent republican presidential candidates were like "let's pointlessly invade another middle eastern country for the same dumb reasons as the last one(under a republican candidate)" and the democratic president was just like "Let's keep this one war we have, that's unnecessary, going"

Yep, both parties are identical, so vote for republicans.


The Obama doctrine is the same as the Bush doctrine which is the same as the Clinton doctrine.
 
2014-01-15 03:57:59 PM

tirob: FTA:  "...the Carter administration reversed policy and made human rights a priority in its relations with Argentina and other nations."

If that's what the Carter administration did--I for one recall no such reversal of policy regarding Argentina--it didn't help the Argentinian leftists who were being rounded up and murdered by the Videla government.  Most of the deaths in the Dirty War happened during 1977-81.



Carter's policy was to talk about human rights, especially in the context of relations with the USSR.

In practice our allies and clients like Iran, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Zaire etc. would get a sanctimonious scolding along with their monthly arms shipment, which tended to piss them off without slowing down the killing.

We boycotted the Olympics, but kept on eating the bananas.  Carter can kiss my ass.
 
2014-01-15 03:59:38 PM
If this is all you have for "why Kissinger deserves to die" subby, you must be very, very young.
 
2014-01-15 04:34:13 PM
Interesting that the article didn't provide anything that directly quoted Kissinger as saying what is alleged. There are some massive suppositions in that article but then again it is Mother Jones.
 
2014-01-15 04:59:45 PM

SevenizGud: pkellmey: We find amazing ways to justify messing in other countries politics

I know! How dare we try to bring democracy to Nicaragua! What next, we try to get arab nations to allow womenfolk to vote?


HURR DURR DEMOCRACY DURR.

Dude, you don't even believe in climate change.
 
2014-01-15 05:20:52 PM
Wait!  There were still people who didn't know this?
 
2014-01-15 05:37:40 PM

Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.


Yes, but instead of spoons, they use plastic sporks.

I did not realize how horrid Kissinger actually was* until I took a course on the Cold War in college. Of course, there was ONE student in class who attempted to defend him and his actions. He was met with shame and ridicule.

*-not saying he is no longer horrible, just trying to keep grammar on par

/shakes head
//HK can get bent
 
2014-01-15 05:51:13 PM
i1.ytimg.com
Not an actual parody, or defamation of character.
 
2014-01-15 07:03:28 PM

macadamnut: tirob:  1977-81.

Carter's policy was to talk about human rights, especially in the context of relations with the USSR.

In practice our allies and clients like Iran, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Zaire etc. would get a sanctimonious scolding along with their monthly arms shipment, which tended to piss them off without slowing down the killing.

We boycotted the Olympics, but kept on eating the bananas.  Carter can kiss my ass.


I don't recall the Carter administration's ever scolding Iran about its human rights record in the 1977-78 period, when the Shah was still in power.  I *do* recall anti-Shah Iranians taking Carter to task at the time for talking about human rights while turning a blind eye to abuses by SAVAK, the Shah's secret police.  It's sort of academic, though, in that instance--Iranians threw out a repressive government and wound up with an equally repressive government to replace it.

Similarly, I don't recall the Carter administration's ever taking Videla et al. to task for its methods of dealing with the Montoneros and the ERP.  And who knows, a scolding may have helped.  In contrast to the case in Iran, when the Argentinian junta finally went its way in 1983, the Alfonsin government, which replaced it, was a relatively humane body.
 
2014-01-15 09:29:22 PM
The carpet-bombing of Cambodia (which was not a war with the USA at any time) led to the rise to power of the Pol Pot regime and the death of millions of innocent civilians. Henry Kissinger's brand of Real Politik makes Darth Vader look like the Good Father.

Macchiavelli would not approve. Although he wrote The Prince, he was a republican by conviction and much of The Prince is intended as warning or satire rather than advice to despots like the Borgias. Macchiavelli's political writings are within an ideological context, Kissinger doesn't seem to have any ideological, ethical, or religious parameters except power.
 
2014-01-16 01:56:16 AM
He's still a war criminal.
 
2014-01-16 01:59:21 AM

Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.


that seems reasonable.
 
2014-01-16 03:10:16 AM

Therion: If there really was Justice in the world, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney would be locked in a small cage in The Hague and forced to fight each other with rusty spoons for their food.


I'm thinking "human centipede". Need a third player, though.
 
2014-01-16 09:08:05 AM

brantgoose: The carpet-bombing of Cambodia (which was not a war with the USA at any time) led to the rise to power of the Pol Pot regime and the death of millions of innocent civilians. .


I remember hearing things like this at the time Pol Pot and his henchmen were murdering all those people and thinking, "Yeah, right, like this is happening because we invaded eastern Cambodia eight years ago."

The Nixon/Kissinger invasion and bombing of eastern Cambodia in 1970 played a part in causing the chaos that brought Pol Pot to power, no doubt about that.  So did the North Vietnamese occupation of that area, which predated the Nixon/Kissinger intervention.  So did the North Vietnamese backing of the Khmer Rouge in the pre-1975 period.  And once Pol Pot came to power, he took the bad situation he had inherited and made it infinitely worse.  There's plenty of credit for the Cambodian massacres of the late '70s to go around.
 
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